CMV More and more young Men are realising that Looks is the Number 1 Factor for Dating Success in a developed Country. Its actually kinda crazy if you compare it to the old days.

LifeIsAVeryBadJoke · 2023-10-12T08:56:21+00:00

I'm old but this was the case 20 years ago. Not just looks, but more so overall physical attraction (there's a lot that goes into this). All you have to do is spend time with women to hear them talk to know that physical attraction matters to them.

The guys who claim that looks don't matter have convinced themselves that their money makes up for it.... no man wants to admit the reality, like, for example, his own wife won't bang him. It's just a taboo subject. They're just trying to save face.

I mean really think about it, what man would just straight up admit that he's not attractive to women other than his money? I mean, they know it's true, but they just swing it to be like this normal thing to just throw money at women and pretend it's love. It's such a crazy, controversial topic for so many reasons.

MistyMaisel · 2023-10-12T15:10:43+00:00

My mother chose to date and marry my father 40 years ago because, and she always gives the reasons in this order: he was handsome, funny, and interesting.

My grandmother chose to date and marry my grandfather gosh....60 years ago because, and she always says it in this order: he was handsome, charming, and hard-working.

My other grandmother chose to date and marry my grandfather gosh..70 years ago because, and she always says it in this order: he was so handsome, very gentlemanly, and hard-working.

I didn't know my great grand-parents, but all my grandmothers mention how handsome their fathers were.

I'm gonna go ahead and suggest that this emphasis on looks is not new by any stretch of the imagination. Women have always wanted to marry and be with handsome men. The only difference, possibly, is if they were allowed to by society or not.

When I marry my man, I promise you, I will also probably say: He was handsome, hilarious, hardworking, and very interesting.

purplish_possum · 2023-10-12T14:25:22+00:00

At least some of us old timers knew how important looks are decades ago. I'm almost 60. I can attest that looks have always been what attracted women. Even if we didn't talk about it or openly admit it -- we knew.

Modern dating -- i.e. teens going on unchaperoned dates, often in cars -- has been around for at least 75 years. Every high school boy in 1955, 1965, 1975, 1985, 1995 ... saw and knew which guys got girls and who didn't. They saw and knew that it had little to do with money (dorky/fat/awkward rich kids weren't getting laid). They saw and knew that it had little to do with personality (personable guys were part of social groups but weren't the guys pretty young girls were dropping their panties for). They saw and knew that the guys getting action were the attractive, athletic, masculine guys.

Example: In the late 70's the guy in my 9th grade class who got the most action was our little town's best hockey player who was not only incredibly athletic but very attractive too. Personality wise he was quite smart but a major league asshole -- he certainly wasn't a smooth sweet talker -- he didn't have to be.

obviousredflag · 2023-10-12T13:27:51+00:00

looks was always key. Looks is health and genetic fitness. It's THE evolutionary selection factor.

M_Ptwopointoh · 2023-10-12T11:40:41+00:00

Most women spend their day posting photos (and now videos) of themselves on social media while comparing themselves to photos posted by other women. Is it any surprise that "looking right" is now the most important factor in mate selection? How is she going to make ths other girls jealous with some ordinary-looking guy who doesn't loom over her in the photos?

upsidemaze · 2023-10-12T08:50:16+00:00

Game is the king, its just that many men try to find shortcuts. Game takes years to learn and is very mentally taxing. Its easier to gain muscles and put your shirtless pics on OLD to get laid.

So yeah if you have mental fortitude to approach thousands of women you will become good with women. Working on looks just make is easy.

Mr_Chad_Thunderpenis · 2023-10-12T10:14:51+00:00

Interesting is i work with many young People and i am myself 23, and interesting is that 95% off them ATLEAST believe Looks is a key factor

Probably true.

most are in the rabbit holes off Looksmaxxing and all this other Looks lingo.

Cap.

Men are extremely charitable about a woman's looks, when it comes to short term, but they are doing almost zero charity when it comes to long term, contrary to what redpill/blackpill claims. Women, on the other hand, are doing zero charity on looks when it comes to short term, and while they aren't extremely charitable on the long term, they are still quite charitable, more charitable than men that's for sure.

The issue is that marriage/long term dating has been push significantly back, for a wide variety of reasons(politics, economy, culture etc.). Average age of marriage is like 30 now. When people aren't intentionally dating for longterm commitment/marriage early, they will engage in situationships/ONS/short-term relationships way more often, and in that environment the hot guys will be the ones who will get the most women.

JonBenet_BeanieBaby · 2023-10-12T11:50:46+00:00

Ask your great-great grandfather. They just had to buy their wives.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-10-12T14:30:13+00:00

Maybe 95% of your social circle, but most people tend to think dating is holistic and not based primarily or exclusively on looks.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2023-10-12T08:04:17+00:00

It was all about looks even in the old days.

Source: Was around in the "Old Days" of the 1980s onward.

When people are younger, women don't really have any way to tell us apart bc nobody is successful yet, so the good-looking guys clean up. They also keep cleaning up, and a guy who isn't in the top 10% looks-wise ("Hi, there") either is going to "succeed" via the beta bux route or he is going to find some way to differentiate himself, ("Hi, there" again) or find some way to make himself exceptional (You guessed it: "Hi, there", a third time).

I would posit that a lot of "Players" are really reformed "nice guys" (or I should say "good guys" bc I mean just normal guys.) We saw the guys we were told NOT to be like absolutely clean up, while we had to hustle and scrape for everything we got. Some guys got bitter, some when MGTOW and others thought, "I can be bitter that women like jerks or I can be a jerk that women like." - "Hi, there" Numero 4.

When I was in HS it was a Big Deal if you dated someone at the rival HS just across the river - now every app is a dating app. I have gotten laid off of Reddit from posting to TRP (the "slave girl" instinct runs strong in some girls.) Now, if you are a Hot Girl^TM with an Insta who lives in KC, you aren't dating just local guys but guys from LA, Vegas, Dubai, wherever, are in your DMs. So the instinct for hypergamy was always there, it is just on steroids now.

2023-10-12T11:46:51+00:00

I just stopped caring

Safinated · 2023-10-12T14:17:32+00:00

I assure you that hot people have always been the most desirable

Holiday_Artichoke_86 · 2023-10-12T14:45:53+00:00

Only people who are physically blessed, say things like looks is not the most important thing, or that personality is the most important, or that you have to have game. Sure, those are important things, but looks is what makes the door open so you can use your "game" and show your personality

Zabadoodude · 2023-10-12T15:04:15+00:00

"Tall dark and handsome" has been a thing forever. It wasn't "great game and personality"

Sadsad0088 · 2023-10-12T17:24:47+00:00

Socially aware men were already aware, the rise of socially awkward men that eventually wake up might make it appear so

Suspicious-Bed-2717 · 2023-10-12T18:28:52+00:00

Exact reason I already lost 10 pounds, am eating healthier, getting whitening for my teeth, better hair and skin products. Shoes that make me look 3 inches taller ect. I'm not the shallow one here buddy, this is what I have to do to even have the slight possibility to be seen as a human by zoomer women.

uterine_blackmail · 2023-10-12T18:43:20+00:00

Looks is key. Of course. As a woman, I cannot be attracted to an old guy, or an otherwise unattractive guy. He can be filthy rich, I don't care. I would feel repulsed having to kiss his mouth. Yuck. There's a lot of cope and lies being spread around. Looks absolutely matter. However, a lot of ugly guys think that it's within their control. It is not. Only a small percentage is in your control. No matter how much you lift, if you are short, bald, your facial structure is ugly, you are fucked.

ROBYoutube · 2023-10-12T07:29:49+00:00

Ah yes, groups of young people, famous for being correct about complex interpersonal interactions.

Nearby-Dimension1839 · 2023-10-12T15:21:59+00:00

I haven't been here for a while and this has become an echo chamber, and also a very skewed view. Not denying things mentioned here exists, but that is not a true representation of the real world. Also chasing extremely hot girls like that is also a contributing factor for the existing market.

It is equivalent to those girls that just go after Chads? It is like both parties form the environment.

Also forming a relationship and building attractiveness is easier to do in person and who you are trying to bond with.

This place like to reduce relationships down to money looks and sexual organs. Like I said there are extreme cases, but is it the majority of the population?

I mean some people can even fuck chicks for a living, pornstars, but is that the representation of the overall?

Like at the end of the day, people are not objects that you can always derivative like 1+1= 2.

mrs_seng · 2023-10-12T08:09:31+00:00

Yea, people are more shallow, partially because of their youth, partially because of social media.

What your theory fails to take into account, among other things, is mental illness, plain, boring personality and pure stupidity.

Looks fade when paired with a very boring personality. Just like you guys don't enjoy sex with a very beautiful woman that just sits there, like a plank of wood.

Also, looks aren't always paired with brains. One person's stupidity can be very frustrating for the other one.

And looks don't even matter anymore once you discover they have mental issues.

The game is the same as it's always been. Talking right, good jokes, sleek moves, confidence, charm and charisma never fade. That person will be 70 and still posses these qualities.

Guys who lack the qualities above can't accept the fact that they are not interesting enough so they throw the blame left and right.

Stop_Maximum · 2023-10-12T12:52:07+00:00

The old days shouldn’t even be used to compare to the current time. Of course, look will and has always been a thing. Maybe women were less involved in that, but it was for men to go for a woman that was considered beautiful. Nothing wrong with that. Relationships are a want, rather than a need. Some people will be left out, and it should be expected

orangecloverbud · 2023-10-12T07:57:12+00:00

Have you been to walmart?

wtknight · 2023-10-12T12:11:18+00:00

Looks gets a man’s foot into the door. Women will at least give the men who don’t repulse her a chance, though. This is why game and status are just as important to men, as well as things like having an income if what he’s seeking is a relationship and not just sex.

iSellNuds4RedditGold · 2023-10-12T08:25:21+00:00

No, looks is the key for dating success if you are a coward regarding approach, being good looking makes it so you get approached instead, removing that burden from you.

But if you brave it up you can still get numbers by just sheer exposure while not being exceptionally attractive.

Able-Imagination3695 · 2023-10-12T13:18:00+00:00

Honestly, the men in the US look significantly worse and put a whole lot less effort in their looks than men in.....most any other country.

South Korea? They're all dressed very well, at all times

Latin America? Not my style but they put in loads of effort into their looks and way of dressing

Have you SEEN Italian men? Best dressers and groomers I have ever seen, I don't think more attractive men exist on this planet.

Except for maybe France. French men have always been extremely well-dressed and stylish.

My SO is European and not even from a country that's renowned for it's style and he puts way more effort into his basic style than honestly, the majority of men I've ever dated.

US Men just caught up to the rest of the world in terms of having higher standard of beauty applied on them. IMO I think social media is the cause - women were no longer exposed to *just* US men, they now had access to men from all over the world and the general consensus was "wow men look great everywhere BUT here"

JonBenet_BeanieBaby · 2023-10-12T11:52:51+00:00

You’re also only 23 ffs. People actually do change.

If you’re a shallow, average early-20’s, you’ll prob get the same energy back at you.

Ok_Finger_6818 · 2023-10-12T07:35:26+00:00

Blame social media, magazines, TV, film etc for making people compete in looks.

Have you heard of a TikToker called Connor Pranky? I don’t know if that’s his real name.

https://masculineempowerment.podia.com/newsletters/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6Ik1UWTFORFUzTXc9PSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoibmV3c2xldHRlciJ9fQ==--f59d175be71f14aa039f2fc1674ab9e495eb443c4c027f13363c3f3f90292d7c/preview?untrackable=true

He’s around the same age as you. He talks about game being the most important.

Now I wonder, is that because he’s “not attractive”? Or is he trying to sell his products and services to anyone who will buy into it?

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bikerider6969 · 2023-10-12T09:36:38+00:00

No shit looks are the #1 factor idk how this has ever been considered controversial lmao even little kids know that

Better-Leather-4849 · 2023-10-12T11:14:40+00:00

Maybe. Or maybe it's this: looks are by far the easiest attraction trigger to significantly improve in relatively quickly with the least resistance. It's hard and unclear how to get rich or how to become charming and there will be a lot of rejection and resistance along the way. Becoming better looking is fairly straightforward and you can get positive feedback from it instantly.

mrcs84usn · 2023-10-12T13:35:55+00:00

Status is king imo. When I see some of these celebrities getting women throwing themselves at them without even really having a conversation, it’s clear that they are going based off their status/social proof.

PlatypusPristine9194 · 2023-10-12T14:39:16+00:00

It's not the most important factor, but it's not insignificant.

Puzzleheaded_Land241 · 2023-10-12T15:02:03+00:00

Just testifies how archetypal thinker that social networks, OLD applications lends itself to inherently fascistic thinking that just wipes away or eliminates or marginalizes anything that can follow the mold. Ironic, how much human thinking is grounded in the desire to be at some level cleansing or genocidal if it is given the tools at their disposal.

cromulent_weasel · 2023-10-12T20:07:42+00:00

Counterpoint: Thinking that looks are the only thing that matter corrodes your personality and your soul.

axolotofpain · 2023-10-12T20:11:40+00:00

Looks are a baseline. They are the floor, but not the ceiling. You'll still trip on your way up if you forget to tie your shoes or fall if your ladder is rusted and broken.

Glittering_File_6990 · 2023-10-12T22:00:32+00:00

Good to know they finally get it

Icy-Sprinkles-638 · 2023-10-12T22:41:02+00:00

It depends on what you mean by "old timers". Really it was mainly Millennials who went all-in on "personality above all". The big difference is that Gen X and older were just by default more attractive because they were fitter. Look at pictures of average guys - i.e. yearbooks and stuff like that - from the mid-90s and earlier and then compare them to pictures from the 2000s through to today. Men were just in better shape back then so "looksmaxxing" was really just getting clothes that actually fit (as per the style of the day) and if you needed glasses not wearing the nerdiest of nerdy frame shapes. Those were also the eras where fatties got bullied into being not-fatties. It's no coincidence that the rise of "no bully" and the rise of the copium of "looks don't matter" happened simultaneously.

SentientNose · 2023-10-12T23:57:44+00:00

Looks is the least determinate factor.

Cmv.

Most people are in the normal range of looks. Being more attractive will get you more swipes on dating apps, but accounts very little for real life success. None of you have sex regularly or have approached attractive women in the wild so your words are all hot air.

People who are more attractive are of a sespefic genetic phenotype of person, they have much much, higher probability of genetic selectivity and are much less likely to be free and open to dating down. More attractive men absolutely will not date down, and will not fuck down often.

This means they are chasing after more elite women which is exceedingly more difficult then the 6/10s you incels on this blackpill debate forum woon after.

For most normal ugly people, at least here in the u.s . They have higher rates of reproductive success then attractive or medium attractive people. Why? Because all of them are in the poverty line. The u.s. is surrounded by extremely ugly people reproducing frequently anyone who denies this is simply lying to themselves to feed their bullshit ideology.

BigEdsBun · 2023-10-16T07:13:31+00:00

I don't believe that looks have ever 'barely mattered' for men. That an average/ugly man could 'spit game/have confidence' and easily have beautiful women interested in him. Outside of situations (historically) where the woman had no choice, or where the man was very rich/had a title, it just wasn't the norm. Marriage/dating/courting was often more pragmatic than it is today, but women have always cared about looks.

I look at wedding photos of my grandparents' generation married in the 50s) and almost always you look at the couple and think 'yeah, that makes sense' in terms of looks, age, etc. Attractive women married attractive men, average women married average men and ugly women married ugly men by and large. Go as far back as you can, to photos of Victorian couples. It's pretty much the same.

I think watching older films where average/ugly actors are paired with beautiful actresses has warped some guy's perception of how things really were. The truth is that looks always mattered. This should be reassuring as you haven't 'missed out'. You're in the same boat as women

CMV More and more young Men are realising that Looks is the Number 1 Factor for Dating Success in a developed Country. Its actually kinda crazy if you compare it to the old days.

Comments

SLFM&G

* Status

* Looks

* Frame

* Money

* Game