We often talk here about how successful, high-performing women want educated and successful men, but do most educated and successful men want ambitious women?

alotofironsinthefire · 2024-04-20T22:22:51+00:00

Statistically speaking people date and marry within their own social class.

Garfagnana · 2024-04-20T22:39:10+00:00

I’m a medical student, so I’m not a physician yet, but I will be in due time. Honestly, I don’t really care about a woman’s education or ambition to get a high-octane job. My last girlfriend was always so self-conscious about not having a college degree and working as a bank teller. I really couldn’t care less that she didn’t have a college degree. I knew that she was an intelligent person, and that was good enough for me.

Environmental_Day558 · 2024-04-20T22:55:58+00:00

I couldnt care less either way. I used to date a type A career ambitious woman who made made more than I did at when we first started dating, and that relationship was terrible. She was superficial as fuck. Now I am engaged to a woman that I make over 4x more than. She isn't trad either, and since we're both childfree she doesn't want to be. She has a bachelors degree, works full time, contributes financially, and has plans on advancing her career too. I support her goals as well, and I want her to go far. However regardless of the outcome, her career wasn't a factor in our relationship and im ok with where she is now because money isn't an issue for us. If she wanted to no longer work, do 100% of the housework, and leave me with 100% of the financial decisions around here, I'd be ok with that.

MikeArrow · 2024-04-21T02:51:53+00:00

I'm not successful by any means, but I do want to be with someone that I can engage with on a similar intellectual level.

I know how pretentious that sounds, but I'll give an example.

Last month two new people were hired at work.

One is from a lower class background, believes in astrology, and is obsessed with the trappings of wealth, handbags and jewelry and stuff. Complete turnoff.

The other is the total package. She's well bred, well spoken, well educated, she reads. Someone who you could take to a museum or an art gallery.

It's night and day the difference.

_noneoftheabove · 2024-04-21T00:47:42+00:00

Profession and educational attainment are status signifiers, so I think it makes sense that men would be less concerned about those things in their partner than women. I do think men care about women’s intelligence and competence. Some men online will claim otherwise. That has not been my experience in real life.

Hrquestiob · 2024-04-21T07:29:02+00:00

People have already mentioned that statistics show people marry within their SES and class. Relatedly, a strong predictor of a child’s success is their mother’s education level.

I think people should be free to desire what they want, but I’m always baffled by people who say they don’t care if their future spouse is educated or has a career, just that they’re agreeable and attractive. Maybe they aren’t equating those characteristics with intelligence, but the data shows there is a strong correlation. I personally wouldn’t want to have children with someone who isn’t somewhat intelligent because I want smart children. But to each their own. I’ll also qualify that not everyone wants children.

Even if I didn’t want children, though, I’m not sure I personally have the patience for someone who isn’t moderately intelligent. But I’m being generous assuming people who say they don’t care if their partner is intelligent are intelligent themselves

Mental_Leek_2806 · 2024-04-20T22:39:39+00:00

Red and purple pill men get little right when talking about "high value men" and high earners. Yes, some highly educated, ambitious men do not care at all about a woman's education or earning potential. They'll happily take a Denny's waitress. These men are nowhere near the majority.

A decent chunk of these men want a woman who is educated, but doesn't care about her salary. Or he cares that she's in a prestigious or high earning career, but doesn't care if she goes to part time after having children.

Some men specifically like a dynamic where both partners make a substantial income and neither has the breadwinner pressure.

People forget that many high earning, ambitious men come from subcultures where both men and women are expected to excel. And where women are partially evaluated through that lens.

Something-bothersome · 2024-04-21T04:39:15+00:00

It always amuses me that people are willing to argue that well educated high earning men suddenly magically become stupid about this major (almost central) issue in life.

They are so intellectually disabled by their reproductive organs that they can’t see the enormous benefits of having a well educated or well earning wife in this day and age. Apparently only women are capable of taking education and financial capability into account when choosing a life mate. This whole rhetoric is embarrassing.

Men are not stupid. They can math, forward plan and are even capable of contemplating that having a similar level of education might actually be quite pleasant in a mate for those times when they have their pants on.

zoxzoxzo · 2024-04-20T22:40:46+00:00

Is the notion that men, especially high performing, ambitious men, don't put any importance in a woman's goals or education correct anymore? Is there truth to this?

Imo there is truth in it. In general they may put some importance into it but overall woman will care a lot more about the state of man's career, education, goals etc. than vice versa

KayRay1994 · 2024-04-21T02:45:14+00:00

some do, some don’t. It’s really that simple. More men don’t, but lots of men also do.

Legitimate_Type_1324 · 2024-04-21T04:45:34+00:00

I need someone at my intellectual level, for which you need to have ambition.

What I don't need is someone who is confrontational and entitled.

You can reach high while still being kind.

CraftyCooler · 2024-04-21T06:50:50+00:00

It's more about similar intellectual level or lifestyle expectations than income per se imo. Surgeon can get married to teacher - no problem with that and there is plenty if such couples. But surgeon+high school girl only - not really, i know such couple and this guy looks down on his partner(they have a teenage child together but he didn't propose and will not do it), and she doesn't have access to his money - he is giving her some monthly allowance and thats it.

januaryphilosopher · 2024-04-21T07:33:21+00:00

Statistically men generally choose women with the same education level and class and that plays out with what I've seen. Through university I've met a lot of people who are very ambitious and successful and they would emphasise the need for a partner who's also driven and smart, many would even look down on people who got a degree at a "worse" university.

doggiedoc2004 · 2024-04-21T21:51:40+00:00

As someone who has a professional degree, a social circle that mostly includes professionals, and a majority of acquaintances who also have a 4 year degree +, the majority of the males are married to women with similar attainment or at least a 4 year degree. I can think of only two men who married women with no degrees/minimal career goals. And one of those men has gone through 3 women with no career goals and he's saddled with alimony and child support.

These power couples are all high income, most are still happily married and the vast majority of kids produced in these relationships are all high achievers, including my own

solstice-sky · 2024-04-21T00:35:24+00:00

Apparently, there is the notion that most men don't care about a woman's career or level of education or ambition in life

It’s true, low status men don’t care about a woman’s career. High status men absolutely care about career, education, etc — as you’ve mentioned.

If you are an adult, you are fully capable of supporting yourself, and the man should not have to pay for everything for you.

You mention that some men and women prefer a dynamic where the husband/male partner supports the wife/family. Therefore, this isn’t about what someone should or should not do. It’s about people dating compatible partners. Couples do 50/50, have a wife breadwinner, have a husband breadwinner, there are many configurations. There is no right or wrong. Don’t date women that expect you to support them.

purplish_possum · 2024-04-21T01:25:40+00:00

Of course high performing men what women who are their equal. Why would an educated guy with an interesting career want to support a bimbo?

High performing guys many high performing women. Harvard marries Yale. Michigan marries USC. Berkeley marries NYU ...

At the mid level community college women marry guys with solid blue collar jobs.

At the low end everyone takes what they can get.

AidsVictim · 2024-04-20T23:49:42+00:00

Men in the upper and UMC will generally only marry within that class. But the UMC is like 10% of the population which get's over represented/discussed here.

The class lines are more blurry below that.

Personally I dislike ambitious career women because they tend to be heavily indoctrinated with neo liberal and/or left liberal type ideology. Otherwise it doesn't matter much.

Willing_Coconut809 · 2024-04-21T13:34:21+00:00

Men say they don’t care until the event of the divorce when the stay at home wife/parent gets half of the 401k and keeps the house.

Gilmoregirlin · 2024-04-21T21:35:17+00:00

My experience as a high earning successful women is that most men in this day and age want to date a woman who is educated and has a good job so long as her career and/or education do not outshine his.

Safinated · 2024-04-22T01:08:14+00:00

No, because most men want support, primacy, priority, nurturing, and agreeableness

They want to be captain, not first mate. How can you expect sex and service when you’re a subordinate? If they don’t need you, why would they submit?

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-04-20T22:41:53+00:00

They do, but conservatives want weak willed, uneducated women who they will treat as servants and sexy children.

Women don’t care what those men want.

Konoha_Shinobee · 2024-04-20T22:52:23+00:00

Yes, successful men want successful women.

Being successful just isn't as big a pull for men as it is for women.

Meaning if it's a stunning highschool grad or a mid PhD holder, the man will be more inclined to pick the hot one, where the lower attainment would more likely to be a turnoff for a similar woman.

Hot people are more educated anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

Hatespanch · 2024-04-20T22:53:38+00:00

The cute 25 y/o denny's waitress doesnt find the average looking 40 y/o lawyer or doctor a catch either anyway

One-Objective-3715 · 2024-04-20T23:14:43+00:00

Personally yes. I’ve always been a big dreamer and an ambitious person, and I would like a partner who is the same. Having someone else who is motivated towards achieving their goals only motivates me even more to achieve my goals.

One of the biggest signs that my last relationship wouldn’t last was when I asked my girlfriend at the time if she had any goals or dreams in life and she legitimately could not come up with an answer. She literally said “what’s wrong with being mediocre.” That killed A LOT of the attraction I had towards her.

YearnsToDestroySun · 2024-04-20T23:01:52+00:00

There's more to life than that nonsense though.

It does reflect a feminine hypo-agency to have your identity be defined by others. I'm not attracted to this quality women seem to overly care about in themselves and men.

It's a large part why culture is dying by all this woke shit.

SlowEffective8146 · 2024-04-21T01:09:21+00:00

Of course not. A woman becoming successful limits her options of men, but a man becoming successful only increases his options.

Pathosgrim · 2024-04-20T22:34:00+00:00

Educational and successful men are willing to date any kind of woman, regardless of their status and income. The same can't be said for women, tho. The more successful a man becomes, his pool increases while a successful woman's pool shrinks. Trad lifestyle is just a grift gimmick. It's best not to identify as one. It's just bs that doesn't mean anything, a movement filled with dishonest, opportunistic women and dumb men willing to be fleeced.

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Da_Famous_Anus · 2024-04-20T23:16:23+00:00

Key-Pineapple-1427 · 2024-04-21T01:23:00+00:00

I don’t care, I would be just as happy dating a doctor as I would be dating a woman who works at McDonald’s. Just don’t cheat on me and scratch my head when we’re in bed watching tv

Fabulous_HonestTea · 2024-04-21T01:35:36+00:00

do most educated and successful men want ambitious women?

It seems that way given that people tend to marry within the same economic class.

This has been studied and it comes down to the fact that men just fuck who’s around them.

RubyDiscus · 2024-04-21T02:59:35+00:00

Honestly there's that much stuff that needs to be compatible that the guy being ambitious is not even on my list of concerns lol

WhaleBiologistCILISI · 2024-04-21T03:52:53+00:00

If they're employed, and don't have the attitude of, "this job fuckin' sucks but it pays the bills," then it really doesn't matter what they do. If someone is with a job and don't mind the circumstances cause it funds a life they enjoy living, what possible problem could come from that?

Planthoe30 · 2024-04-21T04:07:12+00:00

I have always made poverty level wages being a social worker and men of all classes did not care. I have dated from postman-millionaires they absolutely did not care. The higher wages they earned the more they assured me that I’d be taken care of financially so if anything I feel like that was less important. Blue collar workers expected more equal share of the finances which makes sense- I’m not knocking blue collar workers down that was just my observations.

his_purple_majesty · 2024-04-21T05:20:30+00:00

Justahotdadbod · 2024-04-21T06:37:23+00:00

The level of success and wealth of the man will greatly affect this question.

If he is a hard working junior partner at a prestigious law firm, I would say that he would be equally interested in a woman with similar work schedule, goals and ambition.

But I can tell you when you reach a certain level of independence, it’s more important that you have common interests outside of work to talk about and enjoy together. Also, it’s much better to have a woman who can travel with you whenever you want than one who needs to request PTO or find someone else to run her business for 2 weeks.

Mr_Chad_Thunderpenis · 2024-04-21T12:53:22+00:00

Men date across and down socioeconomic status hierarchies, so obviously they care less about a woman's success/money/status.

Men "inherently" have betabuxxing tendencies. They'll leverage their money/status in order to get a hotter women compared to what they could get without leveraging those. I am not saying being a betabuxxer is ideal, I am just describing the behavior.

For someone who makes average wage, obviously if he wants to start a family, he'll need someone who works and makes some money, since in most places you can't sustain a family with 50k/year. But the higher the man ranks socioeconomically, the less he'll likely care about a woman's success/money.

Men overwhelmingly prioritize youth/beauty. After that it's character and personality. For a man who has enough money, a woman's money/success usually don't rank high in the list of priorities. And when it comes to dating, you first try to secure the traits you prioritize, not the traits that rank lower in your list.

Most men would rather have a hotter partner than twice the household income, assuming of course they make enough money to live comfortably and take care of their family.

Devourer_of_felines · 2024-04-21T15:17:17+00:00

Is the notion that men, especially high performing, ambitious men, don't put any importance in a woman's goals or education correct anymore?

If you’ve spent >15 years in one form of school or another you’d have real problems relating to someone getting a GED in their late 20s. That said men aren’t nearly as hung up on how much money a woman makes or what university stamped their diploma than women do.

shadowrangerfs · 2024-04-21T23:44:51+00:00

Some men care and some men don't. Plenty of men are happy with housewives.

I think it depends on how you define "care" about a woman's ambition and/or success.

Are you saying that under no circumstances, no matter how successful you are, you would never have a housewife?

If your wife said she wanted to quit her job and be a housewife, would you forbid it or threaten divorce?

Does she have to make as much as you?

But to answer the question, I'll just speak on my own personal experience.

I've heard plenty of women state a dollar amount and say "I won't date a man who makes less than that".

I've NEVER heard a man state a dollar amount and say "I won't date a woman who makes less than that".

I don't think most men would intentionally shrink their dating pool by putting a dollar amount on a woman unless they made very little themselves. Otherwise, I can't see a man going, "She smart, she's fun, she's pretty, she treats me well. But she only makes 40k. So, I can't date her".

SecondEldenLord · 2024-04-21T01:03:55+00:00

Men and women want different things in their partner. Men really don't care about a woman's career or money cause they don't benefit from it anyway but women do benefit from a man's money cause they have to be traditional and pay for the first date and pay for vacations, etc.

Little-Load4359 · 2024-04-21T04:14:11+00:00

Men don't really give a shit. They'll date a fast-food worker if she's hot, down to earth, really loves you, and gives you your space and lets you be authentic. Men are often labeled shallow but women are the shallow ones.

GGMcThroway · 2024-04-20T23:44:07+00:00

Successful men want both the ambitious woman and the high-maintenance hottie.

They want the ambitious woman for the ego validation of making her alter her life course (read: putting her life on hold to start a family). They want the high-maintenance hottie because they want to have arm candy to show off.

In practice, they generally choose the former because it's less risky. Some do try the double-play if they think they can get away with it, though.

Live_Guidance7199 · 2024-04-21T02:05:27+00:00

Was curious as well reading this so did some skimming and no. Like hard no.

The top 10 wealthiest (claimed/known) men on the planet didn't marry Elizabeth Holmes, but child tutors, unknown/b-list rockstars, and a bunch of straight up housewives.

The actual wealthiest men on the planet are all in countries where women aren't allowed to have education or jobs so obviously they're a no.

Athletes, Hollywood, and music aren't knocking up female CEOs but sub-25 IG "models" and Perkins waitresses.

Handful of CEOs searched shows not an Ivy spouse in the bunch, shit ton of housewives.

So really hard no. Attractive and caring Denny's waitress is not only acceptable to HVM but it appears preferred.

kvakerok_v2 · 2024-04-21T03:23:14+00:00

I'm sure most lawyers, doctors, consultants, and other professionals do not find a pretty but financially struggling 25+ year old Denny's waitress to be a catch.

The only reason a 25yo Denny's waitress would be struggling financially is if she is a single mother.

SpareSpecialist5124 · 2024-04-21T03:24:48+00:00

Not necessarily, men are very prone to be perfectly fine being the solo providers and have a stay at home mom, if they can afford it.

ThrowltAw4y · 2024-04-21T11:20:29+00:00

I'm male, I've never been ambitious in my job or education. I earn very good. Never have I ever gave anything about what she does. If she has a career. Good. If she doesn't have a job. Fine too. It's not interesting to me

GhettoJamesBond · 2024-04-21T03:20:54+00:00

No they don't for the most part. When you are high preforming things like laundry get overlooked and you need your woman to handle those things.

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