[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL 16 points17 points18 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

80-20 FAQ (Version .003)

That okcupid graph is always peddled around by red pill and blackpill types. What the dilly yo?

The okcupid blog from 2009 first published the infamous 80-20 graph. The version below is from the okcupid book "Dataclysm" in 2014 by okcupid founder and Harvard math graduate Christian Rudder. Christian Rudder was also the author of the original 2009 post. Christian Rudder was paid 7 figures, not bad for a first time author.

The study...

It's not and never has been a study. It's direct data from the site.

How many people yo?

Half the single people in the United States.

okcupid had 10 million peeps. Christian Rudder also reported that Tinder and match.com had the exact same 80-20 pattern.

Tinder, match, datehookup, and okcupid had 57 million accounts at the time.

But the original blog post said women message ugly guys.

Perplexing, because the okcupid book has the footnote: Only 0.2 percent of the message on the site are sent to users to a person when they award fewer then 3 stars. So something isn't meshing with the idea women message ugly men.

This is just your opinion man.

No it isn't, it is all contained in the text below.

What's with the blurring?

I've removed jokes, ya'll get distracted, buy the book if you want to read the jokes.

[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL 12 points13 points14 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why does this data hang around so much? Why is it pushed so hard?

Think about it. okcupid and match.com are two of the oldest dating sites on the internet. This isn't 50 WEIRD college students in a lab somewhere. This is men and women in their homes, out and about, comfortable, showing you how they really behave. The original subtitle of Dataclysm is: Who We Are (When We Think No One's Looking).

Okcupid has redesigned several times. They used to rate by looks and personality. Then it was simply a 5 star system. Then a "like" system. It went from a total profile driven website, to a swipe based app from 2005 to present day. That's 20 years for the data to change! Yet is hasn't changed. Swipe apps invented in 2012 made a mass exodus AWAY FROM profile driven okcupid and match.com to PICTURE ONLY SHORT PROFILE Tinder. People migrated away from personality websites like okcupid and drove straight to looks based Tinder. You wonder why okcupid has changed so much? That's why.

In all that time the DATA has never changed.

Tinder:

After a 2014 interview with Tinder CEO Sean Rad, the New York Times reported that men swiped right, or "liked", 46 percent of the time while women did so to 14 percent of profiles.

btw: The Tinder data proves that women don't like ugly men because you can't message someone you don't like.

Got any legit studies that show this 80/20 graph?

Yep. “Where Have All the Good Men Gone?” Gendered Interactions in Online Dating Figure 2.

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Women just care if a men is a little taller than them. They don’t care if a man is taller than 6’0”

This is provably false

https://imgur.com/mIISuVy

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=895442

Height matters for both men and women, but mostly in opposite directions. Women like tall men (Figure 5.4). Men in the 6’3 - 6’4 range, for example, receive 65% more first-contact e-mails than men in the 5’7 - 5’8 range. In contrast, the ideal height for women is in the 5’3 - 5’8 range, while taller women experience increasingly worse outcomes. For example, the average 6’3 tall woman receives 42% fewer e-mails than a woman who is 5’5.

https://research.vu.nl/en/publications/women-want-taller-men-more-than-men-want-shorter-women

women are most satisfied when their partner was 21. cm taller, whereas men are most satisfied when they were 8. cm taller than their partner.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S019188691530060X?via%3Dihub

A greater height difference in a couple was positively related to the wife's happiness. [...] The mean height difference in couples was 10.9 cm.

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There's people who are used because they are literally the most average. The most average skin type, the most average nose, the average height (5'8 I believe, so there's a lot of women without 6ft men and very happy) the most average hair colour etc. average is exactly that. Average.

This is a dumb answer. What is "the most average skin type"? What makes a skin type "average"? What makes a nose or hair color "average"? You do realize those things vary massively across population groups, right? You can't be "literally the most average" or "average looking" because there is no "average" across the entire human species.

There aren't even "averages" WITHIN a population group, because who gets to say what the "average" is? "Average" skin type, nose, hair color, facial structure, according to who? You?

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Well let’s see: Almost 80 percent of men have stated that gage has sex at least once in the last year. (Chart 3)

https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-the-sex-recession-over

And the rate of sexless men has been in decline since 2018 and now more women are reporting to be sexless in a year than men (chart 1)

https://ifstudies.org/blog/more-faith-less-sex-why-are-so-many-unmarried-young-adults-not-having-sex

Add to that, by age 44, only around 0.3 percent of adults report never having had the type of sex that could end in somebody getting pregnant

https://health.howstuffworks.com/relationships/love/how-many-people-die-virgins-never-have-sex.htm

So yes, either more than 80 percent of men found “unattractive” are getting laid, OR all that 9 year old study showed is that most people on OLD aren’t hot.

Big shock.

[–]overworkedThrow_AwayOnly Looks matter -3 points-2 points-1 points 2 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Well let’s see: Almost 80 percent of men have stated that gage has sex at least once in the last year. (Chart 3)

https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-the-sex-recession-over

Source: self-reports from the General Social Survey. You will excuse me if I don't consider men claiming they've had sex at least once in the last year to be concrete evidence of anything

And the rate of sexless men has been in decline since 2018 and now more women are reporting to be sexless in a year than men (chart 1)

https://ifstudies.org/blog/more-faith-less-sex-why-are-so-many-unmarried-young-adults-not-having-sex

Add to that, by age 44, only around 0.3 percent of adults report never having had the type of sex that could end in somebody getting pregnant

https://health.howstuffworks.com/relationships/love/how-many-people-die-virgins-never-have-sex.htm

Both self-reports - again, not proof

So no, you haven't proved jack shit other than people SAY they've had sex recently. Anyone can say anything. Where are the behavioral studies showing that women choose to hook up with the 80% of men considered unattractive?

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[–]tadL1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No you are just childish.

I was the 20% and even in my 40s now I still have access to way too many women and young girls. We don't share numbers. We don't talk about who we had and who approached us. We just don't. Not even with each other. Only if asked we do reply to certain people

And if we the 20% don't talk about it. You will never find out.

And to prove that..well you are not a 20% or you would not type the nonsense that you are typing. And the fact that even you never got told or did tell someone that you had sex with her. There you go.

The numbers don't exist because it's not good for anyone if they are out. You know the phrase what happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas. Can you imagine what would happen if all the numbers get out. You can look at a girl. Point at her with Google lens and you get her bodycount? And who that bodycount includes?

That's just not smart for society. Yes it's known. Yes it's ok. And don't get angry like you are.

And btw you proved your own thing already. You claimed things and you can't back it up by numbers. And you don't need to because yes girls talk to each other about their boys. And yes the first thing they get asked is what does the new boyfriend do for a living. We know that.

[–]Lift_and_Lurk2 points 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tadL1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

See you are for sure not a grown up man.

Never did I rant. I explained to you calm, how it is. And why you will not find any real data. And worst part. When the data comes up people will fight it.

Like they fight the tinder statistics. Or any other statistic. Or that lesbian couples have the most domestic violence. Or that women are more depressed than in the past and that they are way less happy. That social media like Instagram and tiktok is devastating. They don't care they still use it. That things are more consistent and faster on android done. The apple people don't care. It's even so far that people don't even know what a woman is and what a man is.

Here is the most simple basic question for you. Is this whole thread making your life in any way better? Would it not be smarter to do something good for you. And before you just reply with another question.

For me it's helping confused angry people like you out. So that you come out better and focus finally on the important part. Get the best version of you that you can be. This is not making you better at all

[–]Lift_and_Lurk2 points 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This thread isn’t actually helping at all. That’s just a copy pasta from a RP grifter who then tries to get you to subscribe to his podcast or follow his blog. Tool quoting George or Amoru: they are openly trying to make money grifting off struggling men

And following obvious lies to put money in their pockets isn’t making their lives better. It’s feeding them what they want to hear to exploit them. That’s called a scam.

And using 80/20 to pretend it means something it doesn’t just proves how blatant a grift it is. M

And so I DO get something out of it. All the lurkers that are casually reading and follow these threads can read along and THEY will go “yeah that’s all a bunch of bullishit” and maybe drop all this crap and go as a girl to prom while prom season is still going.

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[–]tadL1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Nah doesn't ring a bell. The books that I read are children's books for my kids. Right now it's the miss braitwhistle series. And work related things and that's law changes and commentary to decisions by the highest court.. So nope doesn't ring a bell.

So I Googled that person up. from what I saw it seems alright. The typical internet persona. Some tight points some strange points. He sounds sometimes like if you take a feminist and tell him to replace each word female with male.

Somehow it seems to me he was the typical American university frat house student. Spoiled. Already set up who he will marry as there is a frat house that is designed to marry people from his frat house. Has never had worries or troubles. Spoiled life.

But looking at your posted picture. Well you seem to dislike him a lot. At least the passion to go after that. I would not waste time with it.

I never heard of him. But o guess that's because I am not on Instagram tiktok and the other garbage social media people use. And I don't use apple products. That seems to keep the scum away too.

But at least you agree that boys don't run around and tall about their ex in public. And especially don't share shit about her to her new guy. So you know too that we don't share data. And that's on certain topics you dont even want data.

Fun story. In Germany we have Aldi and it's big. I think they own trader Joe's in the USA. So people knew Aldi has cheap prices and that's why so many go there (me included). But Germanu decided it needs numbers to prove what common human sense already knew. So they blow over a million euro to figure out why people go to Aldi. And ofc the totally useless study showed. It's the price.

Sometimes you don't need that data. Sometimes you don't want that data. And sometimes the data shown is completely false (like every number china tells the world for example)

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tadL1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Aha.

No I just keep with you talking. The point I had is already done. You did not share information to men that are with one of your ex. Never came a guy up to tell you that he had your girl. So the numbrrs will never be there. Because we men don't share it. That's all.

but you keep on going. Like a prophet on a mission. And that's nice. I learn something that I did not know. I don't care about that person. I am just a father who tries to understand the generation my kids will grow up with and what they have to expect.

The core values of being a man never changed. And the closest version of that is RP. And when this sub forced me to pick one I had to choose from 5. And that one was the one that made the most sense.

I explained to you how I see it.

You keep on going. But the point I made you agreed too.

So I just enjoy the Smalltalk. And now I am a ai bot. Aha. Just for my stats. You are indeed an apple user aren't you?

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having the same objectives in life, being able to get along, no cheating, idk lol this is ridiculous, you don't need a study for this lol

Proof that any of this shit matters more than looks

I'll do you a favor and give you an example of what substantiating your worldview looks like

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40806-017-0092-x

Prior research investigating the mate preferences of women and their parents reveals two important findings with regard to physical attractiveness. First, daughters more strongly value mate characteristics connoting genetic quality (such as physical attractiveness) than their parents. Second, both daughters and their parents report valuing characteristics other than physical attractiveness most strongly (e.g., ambition/industriousness, friendliness/kindness). However, the prior research relies solely on self-report to assess daughters’ and parents’ preferences. We assessed mate preferences among 61 daughter-mother pairs using an experimental design varying target men’s physical attractiveness and trait profiles. We tested four hypotheses investigating whether a minimum level of physical attractiveness was a necessity to both women and their mothers and whether physical attractiveness was a more important determinant of dating desirability than trait profiles. These hypotheses were supported. Women and their mothers were strongly influenced by the physical attractiveness of the target men and preferred the attractive and moderately attractive targets. Men with the most desirable personality profiles were rated more favorably than their counterparts only when they were at least moderately attractive. Unattractive men were never rated as more desirable partners for daughters, even when they possessed the most desirable trait profiles. We conclude that a minimum level of physical attractiveness is a necessity for both women and their mothers and that when women and their parents state that other traits are more important than physical attractiveness, they assume potential mates meet a minimally acceptable standard of physical attractiveness.

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All this states is that before women move on to other attributes men have they must first find them physically attractive and thats common sense. That doesn't mean that being physically attractive is all that matters.

"All this states" is that physical attraction is a requirement. "Personality" theory is blown out by the study. Read it, but this time not through the lens of bluepilled bullshit ideology.

Men with the most desirable personality profiles were rated more favorably than their counterparts only when they were at least moderately attractive. Unattractive men were never rated as more desirable partners for daughters, even when they possessed the most desirable trait profiles.

Unattractive men were never rated as more desirable partners for daughters, even when they possessed the most desirable trait profiles.

Unattractive men were never rated as more desirable partners for daughters, even when they possessed the most desirable trait profiles.

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2024-04-28T20:10:13+00:00

So I keep hearing this "rule" of women only finding 20% of men attractive and that 20% of men are sleeping with 80% of the women. I wonder if...

So if you don't have looks, your pErSoNaLiTy doesn't mean shit. Therefore, personality is worthless. If looks are a requirement and personality is not, the looks supersedes personality and the latter is irrelevant. If this were not the case, you would be selected for it even if you didn't have looks.

[–]GojosLowerHalf31 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

"All this states" is that physical attraction is a requirement. "Personality" theory is blown out by the study. Read it, but this time not through the lens of bluepilled bullshit ideology.

No read what I said but not through the lens of your hurt feelings. What is "personality theory"?

Men with the most desirable personality profiles were rated more favorably than their counterparts only when they were at least moderately attractive. Unattractive men were never rated as more desirable partners for daughters, even when they possessed the most desirable trait profiles.

Sooooo this just proves that both personality and looks matter......

Unattractive men were never rated as more desirable partners for daughters, even when they possessed the most desirable trait profiles.

Yes because they're unattractive lol. What are these more attractive mens personality profiles like and what constitutes a "less desirable" one in this study?

So if you don't have looks, your pErSoNaLiTy doesn't mean shit. Therefore, personality is worthless. If looks are a requirement and personality is not, then looks supersedes personality and the latter is irrelevant. If this were not the case, you would be selected for it even if you didn't have looks.

I mean duh. If you're not physically attracted to someone then everything stops there so you don't move on to checking on their personality. In this survey it says the attractive men just had less desirable personality traits not completely undesirable ones so this proves nothing lol.

Also what's considered a desirable personality trait is completely subjective

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You updated your post with a blog entry about the original OK Cupid post which was designed to encourage men to take better photos.

But this blog highlights something the men here refuse to admit:

"...men on the site tend to be more generous than women when it comes to rating attractiveness, leading to a nice bell curve with the bulk of ratings falling around ‘average’. But despite their fair ratings, they tend to ignore many of the women they find reasonably attractive and primarily target the most attractive females."

and

"... women don’t seem to be opposed to actually contacting these men that they’ve just deemed unattractive."

The original post was a phony "study" asking 19 college students to rate photos from fake profiles, and men were and still are far behind women on styling and taking flattering photos.

It wasn't a big deal until grifters realized how easy it is to drive revenue by generating ragebait, and now it's a incel legend based on a fake study of fake profiles.

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Hmmm, it’s hard for me to agree that average man and an average woman have equal chances of finding a relationship, because women can get more dates. And usually you need dates to start a relationship.

Depends on definition of “doomed”. I think the nuanced definition of 80/20 is correct and I think that an average man is rather doomed. This definition means that women can have hook ups, holiday flings, fwbs, and whatnot. For men it means that you have to work building up yourself, and may you’ll meet a woman who likes you once in three years.

Imagine some magic happens and from tomorrow men will only sleep with model looking women (who enthusiastically agree). In their late 20s they will pay some attention to ordinary women if those women earn decent money and are good in home keeping. Would you feel like it’s a good deal? Wouldn’t it feel like “you’re kinda meh, but you cook well, so I’m interested”?

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My personal anecdotal experience: I am 20 male, personally swiped on 10% of all women, when I gave my data to TinderInsights I saw that women, that submit their data averagely swipe on 7% of all profiles. All the women I have dated from those sites, however claim and portrqyed a way higher 'pickyness' ranging from 1 in 50 on the low end to 1 in hundreds on the higher end. Similiar to women in my dance formation, which also portrayed similar swiping behaviour.

Now that is to say, that I personally do not think Dating apps behaviour reflects dating behaviour as a whole. Also I have noticed that women who move inside a very online and modern milieu seem to portray a higher pickyness.

Meaning if she has an online presence, is conventionally attractive and has a more modern independent attitude and interacts with online and party culture alot, they are likely to be pickier.

I think those are tipicially also the women, that men tend to go for in dating apps. Meaning, men observe the behaviours of the women with many options, that personally interest them and likely get rejected, building frustration and narratives about women only choosing 'the best men'. It's not a gender specific thing though, men that have many options do that, too. Women, who are deemed less conventionally attractive will probably portray less picky behaviours, but those are not observed or recognized by men, since they aren't interested in them.

It likely boils down to: I am frustrated that the upper echelon of attractive women, are choosey and are mostly looking for partners in their own 'bracket'. Just my 2 cents.

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This.

It is a rule of thumb based on the obvious truth. It was probably originally based on the Pareto principle. Data like OKcupid is used because women and blue pillers like to rely on the “you have no proof god does not exist, therefore he exists” level arguments several years ago. The truth is there is no way to prove the obvious rule (no way to do a good study on it directly$ women will always pretend it is not true (while admitting they only find 5ish percentage of men attractive when they give a real answer).

Data for percentage of people who make 100,000, are over six foot, etc supports this too (they are all sub 20%).

For data on online dating, it is more 95/5 instead for sites like tinder and bumble. Which is more likely the truth, but the exact percentage does not really matter.

Even the okcupid data was 80% of men were rated below average, not that 20% of men were attractive.

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I would imagine the reason for the distortion is somehow related to the human urge to quantify and classify. A higher selectivity (a.k.a. hypergamy) is observed in women’s partner choice, which is perfectly reasonable due to the enormous imbalance of investment (the man can walk away post-intercourse, the woman has 9 months of a potentially life threatening condition in front of her). Some try to lock this well known biological scenario to a well known statistical principle, I guess in order to make it “understandable” or “calculable”. Problem is, that the gap between the sampled data (a scientifically worthless marketing survey, not even considered in its whole) and the target pattern (a Pareto-ish distribution) is too broad to be taken factually. And while there are certainly physical traits more attractive than others, attraction is its own irrational beast that can’t really be modeled with equations or cracked with cheat codes.

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[–]wolfloveyesBlue Pill Man 6 points7 points8 points 2 years ago* (34 children) | Copy Link

It’s the pacifier that sexually unsuccessful men cling to in order to believe that they are actually part of an unfairly persecuted majority instead of accepting that their issues are largely their own.

Our majority of issues is what we are born with. That's something that we cannot escape.

As a man with money, technology is not there yet. We don't have a way to deposit a few millimeters of bones in the right areas (without it migrating later and making you look like a doll).

Bones make all the difference when it comes to male attractiveness.

Misery loves company, even if it’s manufactured company based on an obvious and transparent misinterpretation of pseudo-data.

The same goes for feminists and 2x users.

This common delusion is fed and watered by the manosphere grifters who need their targets to believe that they can be in the magical “top twenty %” if they just like, subscribe, buy the private coaching services, etc., etc.

Any man who has female friends, the more, the better, knows how much sex women are having. So if the majority of your male friends aren't having much, and all of your female friends are having it, then who is getting the most sex among men? Of course, the top 20%.

Women who pay and plan dates and ask men out, again, most of my buddies never got asked out. Who got asked out and had the date paid for? Chads.

Women lied, cheated, deceived, and gaslighted me and my male friends. Women here said "find the better women, you all are going after bad women." Who got the better women then? Chads.

Grifters came much later. 80-20 was known way before, by men observing high school, college, and workplace dynamics where most men would be ignored or treated with indifference/distance, while women would take interest in the top 20% of men, do things for them, and ignore or demonize the rest of the men.

Women here claim they buy presents for their lovers. No one ever gave me or my buddies presents from the opposite sex. Who got the presents? Chads....

Women claim how they offer blowjobs without asking and rip their male lovers' clothes. None of this has happened to my male friends or me. Who got this treatment? Chads.

This also allows for the reinforcement of the concept of a common enemy (women) while also eliminating the possibility of any self-reflection.

You are wrong, we don't see women with hate. We don't see them as enemies but slaves to their instincts where even if they force themselves to like a man who is in the bottom 80%, resentment and neglect for him show through. He makes mountains of efforts, does everything right but still loses to some thug off the street who has no morals or work ethics, but the fundamental things he's born with triumph over efforts, understanding, knowledge, and intelligence.

Case in point: Jeremy Meeks.

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[–]flipsidetrollNo Pill woman 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

There is loads of data out there debunking 90% of the redpill. If your comment doesn’t just sizzle with “the devil will always find ways to hide the truth”, then put me in a robe and call me Jim Jones. But here’s something to consider…. Society wasn’t always “gynocentric” ( btw, trp is so gynocentric, it has a vagina. All it discusses, studies, obsesses about is women.)…. So why didn’t any of this come to light when you ruled everything? If men knew what women were like, they could have stopped anything changing. This “information” didn’t just suddenly come to light in the last 20 years. Oh wait, it did. Because it’s not real data and research.

How do you peer review a “science” that has manipulated data and uses emotional description? How do you peer review something that actively insults people who don’t agree. There isn’t a single science in the world that uses emotions like trp. “Women don’t love men”. Ok, prove it. First, everyone has to have the same definition of love and then you have to prove that the same definition is not being met on both sides. That’s impossible. Calling men who disagree, simps or betas? Sure, that sounds like science to be peer reviewed. Do you know what a simp actually is? It’s just a man who doesn’t care about your opinion on his life choices and whose partner you don’t approve of. That’s all it is. But since when do you have any say in how other men spend their time and money and on who? Which is what you are implying when you say that.

Do you know how ISIS convinced lonely young men to kill themselves in suicide bomber attacks? They pretended to understand how they felt. Then they convinced them that no one cares about them. Then they made them angry and want to leave society or get revenge. All online. Sound familiar? “Oh a woman rejected you/ hurt you/fucked your friends etc, we know how you feel. But women don’t love men. No one loves men. You are expendable to society. Yes of course you are angry. So don’t believe anything that any woman tries to tell you, because they all lie. So follow me, buy my books and I’ll show you how to treat women”. And you are now radicalised without even knowing it happened.

What would you do if a young man committed suicide because of trp? Not anything else, just being young and hormonal and insecure, and finding trp content and slowly consuming it. And hearing over and over how no one cares and how he’ll never be good enough and he’s expendable, and that drives him to kill himself? How would trp content creators defend themselves in a wrongful death lawsuit? They would have to prove all their claims. But what would probably happen,of course, they would play the victims of a broken society, just like your comment does. Like Andrew tate. He doesn’t provide evidence of his innocence or his wealth, he just blames a mysterious concept “the matrix”. But like that man suing hundreds of women for defamation on awdtsg, imagine if thousands of women sued the trp content creators for defamation (calling them whores, hypergamous, high body counts), for causing divorces and breaking up families and relationships, along with the parents of young men who harmed themselves, then that would be a case for true accountability and proving all their claims, on a world stage. That should make you research all the evidence debunking trp. And should make the content creators terrified.

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[–]flosterjenkins1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Where did I say all guys are like that? I'm just pointing out the PPD neckbeards who whine about "women chase Chad but men don't chase Stacy" are hypocrites and lying out the ass. If that's their reason... not being in a position to monkey branch so you don't do it, not bc you care about your partner... is not really reassuring or admirable or sympathetic. They're only loyal because they have to be? Lol, who cares about the dreams of unsuccessful asshole men or wannabe fuccbois who got successfully filtered out? they can go fuck off

a lot of guys have the inventive to lie about how men are great and women are terrible. Can't believe you called me a misandrist with a straight face while im only talking about a subset of men. "women chase Chad" is okay to say, "men chase Stacy" isn't? The audacity to say "your misandry is showing full force" unironically, lmao

[–]FourFingerRotation1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]flosterjenkins1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

a significant chunk of men are wannabe fuccbois and unsuccessful assholes, look at all the bitter angry wannabe fuccbois of the redpill lol

Nahh, women are not more delusional than men and trying to shoot out of their league. What gender is more into sexual variety and casual sex and more afraid of committed relationships? if you wanted to scam some dumbass on a dating site, do you use a pretty girl's profile to make the most money? Or a guy's? If you met a sex tourist or someone who's trying to use $$$, citizenship or status to get someone out of their league, do you think the chances are higher it's a man or a woman doing so? If you met someone who sent $20k to meet their OF thirst trap in person, hoping to get together w/ them, is that person more likely a guy or a girl? If there's a couple w/ a massive age or looks difference, who is typically younger or prettier?

cmon, do you really think anyone is stupid enough to believe "women are more shallow than men". i'm supposed to take your word that you speak for all men that "men don't chase Stacy". well dude, I just don't believe you. If I tried to speak for all women that "women don't chase Chad" you and all bitchy PPD men wouldn't believe me either

[–]FourFingerRotation1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]FourFingerRotation1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]flosterjenkins1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]FourFingerRotation1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Okay well I find your screeching about men as equally as insufferable as you find me and the “bitter” little boys on here. I love how women act like they wouldn’t bitter if they had zero choice and were effectively locked out of dating. Add on top of that men are the ones that have to constantly look and initiate (unless you’re chad then all the women will flock to you) and have much higher sex drives on average and have the urge to seek out female companionship and there you go, that’s why otherwise normal men who aren’t objectively that bad looking are wondering why the fuck women are increasingly chad or single (at least until the mid 30s when they magically discover they want a family and chad isn’t going to commit. Vast majority of men aren’t monkey branchers, that’s most women. So FOH with your bitter bullshit, dating and life more broadly on easy mode and you still complain, they’ll never be happy.

[–]flosterjenkins1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm only saying it bc your holier than thou attitude is very annoying. Why should I care about chad getting girls, if you don't care about stacy getting guys? If you're going to criticize women on something, we really don't care if men do WORSE on that metric than women do. Data shows we are all having less and less casual sex and the same median number of intimate partners. its the same for each gender. Yet women get all the criticism lol. Yall have been talking so much shit that you have deluded yourselves into thinking men don't do the same shit you complain about women about. A lot of men magically discover that they want a family and commitment after being a failed fuccboi when they start balding and their knees start hurting and their simping for insta models hasn't produced anything. And that's fine, who cares. But if you don't care about those men doing it, I don't gaf if women want commitment when they get older either.

after saying all that I believe dating is really tough for guys, it sucks that guys are expected to initiate more and there should be more places for young singles to meet irl and date. I can acknowledge that AND acknowledge some of your complaints are bullshit double standards hating on women for stuff men are allowed to do.

[–]FourFingerRotation1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Uh, i never said i had sympathy for dudes shooting out of their league. But most men know it’s completely bullshit to even try, but if they do, no i don’t feel sympathy for them. It’s just women sleep with fuccbois and chads in hopes they’ll commit but they never do bc they have an abundance of options. I’m concerned with trying to date women so this behavior does harm my chances. I’ve never even gone for a stacy in my life. I’m a very in shape, mid 20s guy who makes decent money but with an average (5.5-6) face. I’ve gotten rated on photofeeler and i get 7-9 ratings on attractiveness but it still doesn’t matter. I’m not chad so i’m not who most women want, even average, although i would not say im an incel at all as i’ve had some relationships and hookups. I’m not trying to be a fuckboi, don’t have time for that nonsense, one loyal girl is more than enough. But it’s fucking soul crushing if when i progress in my career and still workout and take care of my skin when i get to early 30s all of the sudden now im desirable bc they had their fun and want a guy who will actually give them stability and a family. It’s complete bullshit and extremely depressing as a man knowing that, and it’s not something you can just unknow.

[–]flosterjenkins1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

look, it works well enough that some women and catfishes make a ton of money that way, giving some hope to guys who are fairly mid. not hating on them really, some people like to dream. The point is I really doubt women do much "chad chasing" than vice versa. It's a silly criticism, many women are more distrustful, insecure, anxious, take less risks and more passive than guys and have a less active libido. Not only is it not happening, realistically this criticism better applies to the hornier risk taking gender. Plus the whole "chad" and "stacy" thing is really reductive and immature to argue about and I am cringing at myself for going w/ it. RP has convinced some guys that girls have had more "fun" when statistically guys had the same amount of "fun". Data shows the median # of intimate partners for both genders is about the same. Lol, for most girls the "fun" in their 20s is serious relationships and using vibrators in between.

Wish you the best genuinely and hope you find someone. don't want to offer unsolicited advice as i'm sure you've heard it. sometimes its easier for a guy to just move where the girls are and meet them irl without the apps. combo of large city, volunteer work on weekends or coed hobby, decent sized social circle of new people, works for some guys I know

[–]FourFingerRotation1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]flosterjenkins1 point 2 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Because misinformation and confirmation bias and the algorithm can push people into believing strange things. some men experience a reality where the moon landing is faked and lizard people live among us. It doesn't change the truth or the data, and women are not at fault for their delusions. just because dating women is less easy bc of their our libidos, passivity (fair criticism imo) and dislike of dating apps, doesn't give men the right to make double standards for us and insult, generalize, and attack us for things MEN ARE ALLOWED TO DO and likely do TO A LARGER EXTENT than women do.

if more men are pushed to the manosphere, than women are more right than ever to be afraid and not date and look out for ourselves and our own mental well being.

I take back what I said, I don't think you're in the mindset to be a good boyfriend unless you do some therapy and detoxify yourself from the manosphere first. But best of luck after that, anyway.

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Whatever it's exact origin, okcupid or whatever, the 80/20% rule isn't completely false or true.

In the real world it's <1% men that are "actively" attractive to women and experience dating/sex similar to what an slightly above average woman might. Pretty much every facial attractiveness survey shows you have to be a male model to break 6/10 by female consensus rating.

The 20% covers men who are still "really good looking" (i.e. they are rated 5 or 6 by women), or have high status, or are very socially successful or whatever combination of these. These guys still can still have a "fun" dating life. I don't think they're really having 80% of the sex though - tons of ugly and average people still fuck a lot.

For the rest of men there's still stratification but essentially it's dudes who get a girl interested in them maybe once or twice a year, or never if they're at the bottom.

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There are several variants of the mate-switching hypothesis of women’s short-term mating. One involves cultivating a backup mate should something befall a woman’s regular mateship, such as a partner becoming injured, dying in a war, or in probabilistic anticipation of a potential breakup. This has been called the “mate insurance” function of short-term mating (Buss, 2016). Another variant involves having a short-term sexual encounter to make it easier to divest herself of an existing mate. A third variant involves trading up to a partner of higher mate value, or one who offers more benefits and fewer costs than her current partner (Hypergamy). A fourth variant involves using short-term mating as a means of assaying her mate value to evaluate whether there might be more desirable and accessible potential partners on the mating market.

Buss (2023)

https://doi.org/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780197524718.013.1

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Tl;dr 80/20 rule is bs in dating and only pumped by the blogs discussing romance in early 2010s. Stats can prove that it is false.

Economics and mostly how a country is ruled. 20% of the population has power over the rest 80% or owns the land. That's the middle and average point because that principle also states that there are cases of 70:30 and 90:10.

In dating that's much untrue. You also have the top 1% of alpha males in many blogs. Those were very popular dating topics in early 2010s but seem to have resurfaced especially on TikTok. By that logic if women desired only 20% of men in a given country that would leave at least half of the men single and the rest 30% from the 80% to be either cheated or in a very unhappy marriage or relationship. No exceptions. Otherwise the average woman wouldn't desire her husband.

Let's simulate a scenario for a year. X country has 1 million man and 1 million women aged 18-50. All of them single and straight. No one leaves or enters the country. Let's say desire equals relationship/sex right away. By this principle you would have these stats:

-Only 200k men are desired by 1m women. -If those 200k men are desired by 1m women they would find at least one partner and no one would be single after a month. That leaves to 800k single women. But if all of them engaged to the 20% of the men, it would be that each man would have 5 partners all by himself. -If 5 women for each man can accept to be girlfriends to one man only, it is ok. But if none of them accepts this and desires each one of these 200k men, it would take more than 1000 years for desired man to have sex every hour, every day with a different woman.

Now using the logic to general life and reality. When was the last time that you saw such high number of men having sex with every woman in your area and having at least 5 partners each. Yes there are plenty of men and women who date multiple people at the same time. Cheating has become quite common. But that is very unrealistic for the majority of the population. If 80% of the men in the country were single, they would riot and go crazy. Yes 80% of the girls in my high school desired and crushed on Justin Bieber. Does that mean they had a chance on him? 80% of the boys desired and crushed only 20% of the girls in the school. Does that mean anything?

And if you follow the same principle it goes both ways. 80% of the men desire 20% of the women. Or 80% of the desired men desire only 20% of the women. They would clash with each other to death to get a partner. In between you would have 80% of the population of both men and women being left alone single. Now stats can be different for each country and society, but there are more married couples than single adults(excluding relationships and including teens). It's about 52% to 48% in some general stats. That gap becomes huge if you include adults only and relationships. And of course the population for both men and women is not equal, but there are other factors such as people who are unable to find a partner due to a disability, career choices, sexuality.

The latter is funny, because alot of men who were desired by the majority of women came out of the closet. It's understandable that 80% of the women in our planet would get thirsty over Ricky Martin 20 years ago, but not a single woman on Earth ended up marrying him😂

[–]UpbeatInsurance5358Purple Pill Woman[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Mental_Leek_2806No Pill Woman, 23 [score hidden] 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Their evidence is OLD but IMO works for the way some women experience attraction to men, but definitely not all.

I think women's attraction to men has three categories:

Men that they're attracted to based on basically just photos
Men they're attracted to after meeting them in person, being around them, etc. It really is vibes - the guy's sense of humor, little mannerisms, body language, everything.
Men they are not attracted to

IMO women vary in our distribution of guys in category 1 vs 2. But at the end of the day these feelings of attraction are equal.

OLD used to really frustrate me because I would literally swipe right for 5 minutes and not right swipe on anyone. I literally ended up having to make up rules on when to swipe right. The 1st category is very small for me but the 2nd has plenty of guys. Some women have a much bigger category 1.

[–]wolfloveyesBlue Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Mental_Leek_2806No Pill Woman, 23 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

80/20 rule origins?

Comments

What does a random 29-33 year old woman who didn’t know him when he was 18-25 have to do with other women who may have rejected him when younger?

Unattractive men were never rated as more desirable partners for daughters, even when they possessed the most desirable trait profiles.

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Title	80/20 rule origins?
Author	UpbeatInsurance5358
Upvotes	23
Comments	524
Date	April 28, 2024 8:10 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1cffrm2/8020_rule_origins/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/8020-rule-origins.1516750 https://theredarchive.com/post/1516750