Do women think hypergamy doesn’t exist?

RosieBarb · 2024-05-31T02:53:42+00:00

Hypergamy is marrying up, by definition. This has always meant higher social standing or money, and was traditionally arranged by the parents and not the woman/girl. She did not choose, the family did. Later when people were allowed to pick their own partners, they picked based on who they actually liked- assortive mating. So most couples are looks matched and roughly the same intelligence and social standing. There are outliers who marry for money and that is hypergamy. But finding a hottie is not hypergamy.

EulenWatcher · 2024-05-31T02:20:26+00:00

Hypergamy: the action of marrying or forming a sexual relationship with a person of a superior sociological or educational background.

In this sense it does exist, but to a lesser degree these days, because women get education and provide for themselves. Women still pay attention to education and finance due to various reasons though, so they usually marry on the same level or up.

Appearance-wise most people date close to their level and I'd say most couples I know have partners of the same attractiveness level or women are a bit more attractive, but it might be just personal tastes.

Couples I know personally are almost all have very similar background, education level, income and even attractiveness level. It's true for my husband and I with the exception that currently I make more than he does. He claims I'm prettier, I tend to claim the opposite, but objectively we're probably on the same level.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2024-05-31T02:55:54+00:00

The definition of hypergamy that seems to be used in pill spaces is something like “pursuing the best sexual or romantic partner you can secure, sometimes abandoning a current partner.” And by that definition, men are equally hypergamous, but they simply have fewer options.

Professional_Chair28 · 2024-05-31T02:24:15+00:00

Yeah, some people are gold diggers and value capital over basically anything else in the relationship. Those people aren’t the majority of either gender.

one thing many of this think is that women are more selective than men and as a result tend to date and marry upwards way more than men

Fair observation but wrong conclusion. Women aren’t reliant on a relationship the way generations before were, so with full and happy lives on our own if we’re going to invite someone in to share our time, space and energy they’re going to be adding to our happiness. I think a lot of men could stand to be more particular when it comes to selecting potential partners, this “anyone that’s into me” thing is an awful waste of time and a great way to burn out on romance and relationships.

but if there was hypothetically a 2/10 woman looks wise, it would be way easier for her to get with a 5/10 male than the other way around purely by virtue of them being women (and having a more selective standards than men)

I truly don’t think your “2/10” woman is actually a 2/10 woman. A lot of men truly don’t comprehend how wide and diverse women’s appearances are because popular media just doesn’t share that variety of appearance of women. I’ve noticed men who say stuff like that would genuinely classify Melissa McCarthy or Kate McKinnon as a 2/10 (which is so inaccurate even if we were to pretend a numbers based judgment on attractiveness was okay and valid.)

krayon_kylie · 2024-05-31T03:45:39+00:00

as a gamer girl i am pretty hyper gamey

superlurkage · 2024-05-31T02:11:03+00:00

It’s called golddigging. Of course we know it exists

What we don’t agree with is the claim that we’re all golddiggers

MistyMaisel · 2024-05-31T02:28:15+00:00

Firstly, hypergamy definitionally includes mating across (equals) or up. Almost every man here leaves off the first part because it is extremely inconvenient to their narrative. So generically women just don't mate down as often.

Do I think there's a ring of truth to this in terms of say wealth or education? Yes.

Do I think there's a ring of truth to this in terms of say attractiveness, pleasant personality, social success, or maturity? No.

I think men often leave off that the girls they're dating are better looking than them, more likable and easy to get on with, socially successful, and mature within a very limited definition.

Yet we do not say men are hypergamous despite the fact that all of the things women are generally sought for tend to make for a more pleasant relationship and also greater ability to access relationships. Which suggests to me that far from being some useful metrics, hypergamous is just another tactic to shame women into dating men significantly beneath them in all conceivable ways.

UninterestingFork · 2024-05-31T02:57:59+00:00

It exists and we all do it not just women. Everyone tries to get the best they can. In fact men are more likely to shoot above their league.

The fact that men are hornier makes them less picky. That's it.

Now if you say that "hypergamy is only about money" I don't agree but whatever

And the answer yes, women and men care how much money the guy has. Society has ideas associated with masculinity and femininity. If a man has to be the provider, because he's a man, he won't want to be with a woman that earns more money, he will feel less masculine.

Women seek money because well, money is good, I don't need to explain why money is good.

Planthoe30 · 2024-05-31T03:34:04+00:00

I acknowledge there is evidence suggesting hypergamy exists I just think that it is blown out of portion by other factors. Men on average are capable of more physically demanding jobs and get paid more on average so naturally more women would be dating up regardless if that was the intention or not. There are women who want kids and want a provider which is fine, so long as that isn’t the sole reason they commit to someone. I also acknowledge predators exist to exploit men, this isn’t new. The men in this sub use these statistics and worst case scenarios to blow up the numbers of existing predators because they were probably victims.

A 2/10 woman would maybe get a 3/10 or 4/10 man with a good career at best. I have never even seen men date that much lower in looks unless she was at least near average or above.

KikiYuyu · 2024-05-31T03:12:47+00:00

Not the way people describe it.

A lot of people are opportunists, and naturally like half of them will be women. It's not that deep.

claratheresa · 2024-05-31T07:16:07+00:00

Men use hypergamy to rationalize why Stacy won’t fuck them.

Sillysheila · 2024-05-31T09:20:59+00:00

I think it certainly exists for sure. Going by class definition; there are women that still marry for money and marry up in their class. It happens all the time.

I just don’t think every woman is extremely hypergamous, as some theories like to suggest.

Some women marry the same class. That’s not marrying above. A small but growing number, have men marrying up into a higher class. While it is relatively rare, it happens sometimes. My own marriage is a case of this phenomenon.

Then there’s the confusing red pill definition a lot of people here use which is “better” or “more” than women. They also use it for traits that do not make sense, like height or strength. For one thing average men are 4-6 inches taller than average women and most men have more than 10 times the testosterone of an average woman, a hormone that contributes to muscular strength. This is simply sexual dimorphism, it’s not hypergamy. Most men are taller and stronger than most women because they were born that way biologically. It was not a result of higher status or cultural factors.

I suppose I could agree that men are more accepting or willing to date someone who isn’t as conventionally attractive, BUT, the important thing to remember is average men have much higher sex drive than average women. Sure there are outlier women who maybe have a higher drive than others, I count myself as moderately high sex drive and there’s some low libido men. But I know it probably wouldn’t compete to most men, still. So the reason why they’re so willing to do this, might be a bad dating market for men, but it’s also again a function of biology. If you did a very unethical experiment and put all women on T, then you would see them lose a lot of the standards they had, because their sex drives would likely shoot up and start bothering them.

TheMedsPeds · 2024-05-31T04:24:58+00:00

I’m sure it exists for some people but to think that is all of our default is just doomer bullshit. Most of us just a good partner to do life with and aren’t looking to upgrade to a new man if a dude who makes 20k more a year shows interest in us.

Windmill_flowers · 2024-05-31T03:27:35+00:00

Hypergamy doesn't exist.

Typically when a woman marries up, she's really just marrying across. People who don't know her are judging her value, But she knows her worth and things are actually equal

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Werevulvi · 2024-05-31T18:02:52+00:00

Yeah I think there's some truth to that women tend to be more picky, because the reproductive burden is largely on us. But I don't think it's as extreme as you suggest. A 2/10 woman might get with a 3/10 man but she's likely gonna struggle in dating a lot and may sadly likely end up childless and lonely. Once beautiful/successful women who later on lose their beauty/status are also more frequently divorced than once handsome/successful men who later on lose their beauty/status. Single women are more picky, but already married women are generally more tolerant of their partner losing attractiveness.

Because men generally care about how their children will turn out too, and they generally focus more on visual beauty/sexiness while women more often care about money and status in a partner. Men are generally attracted to things that signal health, youth and fertility in women, as well as attractiveness in general, which is a standard that 2/10 level women just can't meet for most men. A 5/10 woman, yes, but not one who is far below average.

But I think there's some truth to that men maybe are more likely to date within their own league, while women more likely to only desire men who are way out of their league. But problem is, women with that high standards are not very likely to be attractive to those men. Most "high value" men don't want a sloppy, puffy woman who doesn't take care of herself and has a shit personality. Especially because they know they can get much more attractive women. Like for ex it's quite rare that I ever see a tall, muscular man dating a fat woman with acne, or a reasonably attractive man dating a visibly disabled woman, or a much older woman with wrinkles and saggy skin, or even an average looking man dating a very unfortunate looking woman. Ime, these kinda women are far more likely either single or dating a man in a similar level of attractiveness as her.

Also, I'm a below average woman (I wouldn't say I'm as bad as 2/10 but maybe I'm a 4, or 3 at worst) and the only men who are interested in me are those who are between 1 and 4/10. I hit on average looking men sometimes, you know the ones with a friendly face and a beer gut, but they always reject my advances. It's kinda embarrassing. Also the occasional dude who looks like a 6/10 will hit on me, but then he's always a drug addict, homeless, or has a severe mental illness like psychosis.

So I honestly seriously doubt I could catch an average guy (who's actually stable, sane and not dangerous for me to be in the same room with) unless I get a bunch of plastic surgery, became very fit and sorted out my mental health issues (which I am actually working on doing because this is abysmal lmao) but even then I doubt any guy who's above a 6 would ever even as much as look in my direction.

So basically, I agree that women in general have higher standards than men initially, but I don't think it's by much. And I do not count being given a pity fuck by a drunk guy in a dark room, btw. Because that's not attraction. That's like two repelling magnets trying to force a connection out of pure desperation for two minutes. I would know.

That said though, there are a rare few highly attractive men who just have a horrible taste in women. I know because I once had an fwb (who wanted me repeatedly) and he was a solid 9/10. I mean model-esque face with strong jawline, muscular, tall, absolutely gorgeous thick long hair, and a ton of charisma. Not a lot of money though but he didn't need that to get any woman he wanted. But then he had a track record of always dating the most chunky looking women with unfortunate faces. At least 3 including me, and the woman he's still married to as of today. No one in our friend group understood why, but I guess he just had a type?

TSquaredRecovers · 2024-05-31T18:10:27+00:00

If you look at the current data, nearly half (45%) of American marriages don’t include a male breadwinner.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/

And that figure continues to climb with each passing year. So, I think it’s safe to assume that hypergamy is decreasing as time goes on. Sure, there are still some women who insist on “marrying up,” but this phenomenon is less prevalent than it used to be.

TheYoungFaithful · 2024-05-31T19:19:54+00:00

I do, I just don’t think it’s a gendered thing. It’s more circumstantial.

bloblikeseacreature · 2024-05-31T20:18:30+00:00

it 100% does not exist as conceptualized in the manosphere. it's flat earth tier broscience.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-05-31T03:08:38+00:00

none of this is the red pill concept of hypergamy, which is the only definition of care for. so I believe in that one

januaryphilosopher · 2024-05-31T09:40:00+00:00

It exists as a phenomenon. But it isn't gendered and it's not a rule or even a trend. Most people marry those with similar incomes, the vast majority their own class. You're using a botched definition of hypergamy where marrying "upwards" isn't just income but whatever you like, and in any relationship you can describe each to be "better" in one way or another so that's unhelpful. Men and women are generally monogamous so it can't be the case that one gender is consistently pairing up with those who are "above" them in any given characteristic.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-05-31T10:52:29+00:00

I would agree women tend to date and marry upwards in terms of money, however, this is less true now than in the past.

Strong disagree on a 2/10 woman being able to get with a 5/10 man, though. Most couples are around the same level looks wise, and if there’s a difference, it’s usually the woman who is more attractive. This is because women consider looks along with a wider ranger of factors, while men very strongly prioritize looks.

Men will sleep with women who are less attractive than them if that’s what’s available, but they do not want to be seen with them. And a 2 is really really ugly, the average guy is not even going want to hook up with someone this unattractive.

Unhappy_Offer_1822 · 2024-05-31T02:23:16+00:00

whats incel?

i think thats how most people with the basic human operating system work.

Mobile_Nothing_1686 · 2024-05-31T09:00:07+00:00

There are people who go for hypergamy (all genders). However it's been more engrained in women because of various societal reasons. Main example being that mostly women do or are expected to stop working (completely or partially) during pregnancy and for the first pre-school years of the kids. Then you kind of need a partner who earns enough to support the family through that time (or save like a squirrel in autumn).

Then there's the addition that men are more likely to pursue promotions (statistically speaking). So they end up more often in higher earning positions towards and past their 30's.

Then there are other factors to consider. Just like some women avoid short men because of the Farquad syndrome, they avoid unstable employment men because of the (potential) future arguments that he can't provide for the family she's expected to raise or that she earns more and he feels emasculated by this.

These are all examples of why (monitary) hypergamy can be perceived as a prevalent occurrence while the often common reasons are happenstance. Of course there are people who do entertain it, but that's not the norm. We don't live in a cast system, but people will always seek ways to improve their life. Is hypergamy part of that? Yes. Is it a requirement? No. Most women, just like men, want equality.

And tbh social standing? The main point of hypergamy often overlooked in the west is pretty much non existent. All you really want is a partner that doesn't embarrass you in public... which I can safely assume is universal for all genders.

ETA: conclusion tl;dr: most women don't actively think of it as hypergamy as we're all just looking for an equal partner. It's not dating up, it's the median that just appears low. Bare minimum isn't all that common. (Also works both ways; guys main tip; don't stick your dick in crazy).

Title	Do women think hypergamy doesn’t exist?
Author	thegreatMTG
Upvotes	11
Comments	284
Date	May 31, 2024 12:39 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1d4iyuu/do_women_think_hypergamy_doesnt_exist/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-women-think-hypergamy-doesnt-exist.1520097 https://theredarchive.com/post/1520097

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