Reproducing older is creating a generation of disabled kids, and it is morally abhorrent

YaKnowEstacado · 2024-01-02T01:14:44+00:00

Before birth control, women were having kids until they died or hit menopause, whichever came first. Go back in your family history and see how old your great-grandmother or great-great-grandmother was when her youngest child was born. Chances are she was well past "prime" breeding age.

Women having children in their 30s or 40s is not new; it's just novel that women are now having their first child at that age.

What's also novel is the expanded diagnostic criteria for autism and other disorders, and the interventions that allow disabled children to live to adulthood.

teachtao · 2024-01-02T01:26:51+00:00

You're ignoring the changes to diagnostic criteria and the understanding of autism in that time frame.

You're also labeling 1 in 36 as useless to society, pretty bold statement. My counterpoint for contributing to society is Elon Musk. Love or hate him, he's contributed quite a bit.

BTW, there are autistic bees so your theory is kinda debunked before it was formed.

mrs_seng · 2024-01-02T00:42:43+00:00

I think aitism was underdiagnosed back in the days. Same for ADHD.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-01-02T00:46:05+00:00

Increase in diagnosis doesn’t necessarily mean increase in occurrence. In addition, because of the way that many places coordinate services, ASD has become a catch all diagnosis for many different things including PDD-NOS in order to allow people to access occupational, educational and medical services.

Autism risk correlation to father’s age is documented. Autism risk correlation to mother’s age is far less clear. Neither is definitely causative.

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/link-parental-age-autism-explained/

Autism is a spectrum and many highly successful people are autistic. Here are just a few:

https://behavioral-innovations.com/blog/20-famous-people-with-autism-spectrum-disorder-asd/

The sky isn’t falling and a bit of education is far more useful than blame game hysteria.

slurpyspinalfluid · 2024-01-02T01:13:34+00:00

based on different estimates, autism is at least 40% up to 95% heritable. furthermore, i’m autistic and enjoy being alive, and plan to spawn more grubby little autistic children into the world whether you like it or not

abaxeron · 2024-01-02T02:12:55+00:00

In 2000, 1 in 150 kids were autistic... fast forward in 2020, 1 in 36 is.

You use video of a severely autistic person and support it with a statistic that includes anyone on the spectrum. I think you need to work on your own honesty first before we can discuss this question productively.

WYenginerdWY · 2024-01-02T03:23:10+00:00

Your entire post completely ignores the 20-year change in diagnostic criteria that has occurred for this condition.

EulenWatcher · 2024-01-02T00:43:29+00:00

It’s partially due to changes in our society - later births, microplastic etc., but it’s also the question of awareness and better diagnosis. A lot of kids just weren’t diagnosed back then. In the same way higher cancer rates don’t mean that we necessarily have higher cancer incidences, most likely it’s better and earlier diagnosis.

Gravel_Roads · 2024-01-02T01:25:24+00:00

These kids will never contribute enough to society, they will create a load to social network

Lol, bro, not all autistic people aren't like... incompetent idiots who are only a burden on society.

I'm a social worker and many of my fellow social workers ARE ALSO on the spectrum - if anything, they often give a more sincere, and nuanced perspective that often HELPS with introspection.

HERE'S A SECRET:

If you want people to have kids earlier in life, give them an environment where they can afford to have kids earlier in life. That'll definitely be a better inspiration than just... guilting and fear-mongering.

KayRay1994 · 2024-01-02T03:25:42+00:00

this weird assertion that autistic = useless to society, and that having kids when you’re older is evil because more people are autistic is pretty ableist and borderline eugenicist. Also using a severe case of autism, who are a minority of autistic people btw, as a form of fear mongering for it is morally abhorrent in itself - so i’d suggest looking in the mirror before using words like ‘evil’ and ‘morally abhorrent’

ConanTheCybrarian · 2024-01-02T05:10:28+00:00

you are using inaccurate assumptions from skewed takes on data to draw a false and ablist conclusion.

This post is a disappointment for anyone looking to engage on an intellectual level.

ParticularDentist349 · 2024-01-02T09:40:32+00:00

I've seen many people have an autistic kid only to later realize they're also neurodivergent themselves. Autism was severely underdiagnosed back in the day. Advanced parental age has probably made things worse but it goes a lot deeper than that.

Barneysparky · 2024-01-02T00:49:20+00:00

My father (who would be in his 90s now) was an Engineer. I'm quite firm in my belief that himself and his entire class could have been diagnosed.

Think about the percentage of the population in mental hospitals back then.

ThorLives · 2024-01-02T06:38:19+00:00

You don't provide any evidence that autism is related to parental age. You're just noticing two things going up historically: autism rates and the age of parents, and drawing a conclusion.

There are a lot of correlations that you could draw with such lose criteria for evidence.

The actual research on rates of autism and parental age says there is some correlation, but the estimates vary wildly, but none of them come close to explaining the 300% increase from "1 in 150" to "1 in 36".

The results of studies vary from 5 to 400 percent. One 2017 study based on whole-genome sequencing of nearly 5,000 people suggests that parents in their mid-40s are 5 to 10 percent more likely to have a child with autism than are 20-year-old parents.

But a large 2014 study based on Swedish medical records hinted that the odds of autism among children born to fathers older than 45 are about 75 percent higher than for children born to fathers in their early 20s. And a 2010 analysis of Swedish data found that men over 55 are four times as likely to have a child with autism as men under 30.

Even so, the absolute chance of having a child with autism is low even for the oldest parents. The researchers in the 2017 study calculated that about 1.5 percent of children born to parents in their 20s will have autism, compared with about 1.58 percent of children born to parents in their 40s.

...

a comprehensive analysis found that for a woman over age 35, the chance of having a child with autism is lower than for younger women.

That study also suggested that women under age 25 are more likely to have a child with autism than older women. The finding echoed that of several other studies that reported that teenage mothers also have increased odds of having a child with autism.

Does the trend toward having children later in life explain the increase in autism prevalence?

Probably not. Independent calculations suggest that the trend toward later parenthood accounts for only about 1 to 5 percent of the increase in autism prevalence. But investigating the link between parental age and autism could provide clues to the biology underlying the condition.

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/link-parental-age-autism-explained/

In other words: people having children later in life does NOT explain the 4x rate of autism. For example, if we used the "fathers older than 45 are about 75 percent higher than for children born to fathers in their early 20s" data and made the wildly unrealistic assumption that every single child in the year 2000 was born to a 20-something, and every single child in 2020 was born to a father older than 45, it would only put us into the 75% range, and not in the ballpark of explaining why autism rates have increased by 300%.

That level of increase cannot be explained with the "older parents having kids" hypothesis.

obviousredflag · 2024-01-02T12:32:02+00:00

Your source really weakens your position.

Does the trend toward having children later in life explain the increase in autism prevalence?
Probably not. Independent calculations suggest that the trend toward later parenthood accounts for only about 1 to 5 percent of the increase in autism prevalence.

What else could explain these patterns?
It is possible that the connection runs the other way: Men who are likely to father a child with autism may have children relatively late in life. These men may have autism traits that delay their ability to find a partner.

Why? Only because a few people were selfish enough to have kids over 35.

No, clearly not only because of age, as you own source explains.

harmonica2 · 2024-01-02T00:37:46+00:00

Well I am autistic and my mom had me in her twenties so is it damned if you do, damned if you don't in a lot of cases?

mlo9109 · 2024-01-02T00:45:59+00:00

My parents had me at 40 and I'm fairly healthy. I'm 33 and single. I'm afraid I won't be so lucky. I do live in a state where I can legally terminate a pregnancy that tests positive for Downs' or other defects. However, not everything can be tested for.

Also, people forget that the cute, albeit funny looking baby with Downs will grow up to be an adult requiring round the clock care. Also, abuse is rampant in facilities for people with disabilities. I couldn't die peacefully knowing that my child would end up in such a place.

Altruistic_Talk_828 · 2024-01-02T16:03:30+00:00

Autism nowadays is grossly overdiagnosed , especially in men. It's like "oh, you're an introverted kid who's into Star Wars and doesn't like sports? Lol, autism."

Sillysheila · 2024-01-02T01:22:39+00:00

I mean it’s also higher diagnosis rates.

When I was a kid in the late 90s, the working theory was that autism is extreme maleness. That’s since been disproved.

8 males to 1 female were diagnosed when I was diagnosed.

Now, it’s 3 males to 1 female.

All the women and girls that get diagnosed now are probably adding a lot to the numbers. People who did autism therapy or diagnosis often flat out refused to see girls when I was little or they would have very stringent qualities for the kinds of girls they diagnosed versus boys.

I was bloody lucky I’m a tomboy. If my special interests were things only girls were interested I bet a hundred bucks I would be undiagnosed right now.

GGMcThroway · 2024-01-02T01:34:37+00:00

Are... mothers going to be financially compensated to offset the loss in potential earnings that comes with having a child young (or at all, for that matter)?

No? Then having kids older it is.

Motherhood is denigrated and looked down upon since there's no economic mobility from it, and you're screwed if you're baby daddy doesn't step up to the plate. It should surprise absolutely no one that more and more women are making sure they can do it all themselves (by having an established career) before having a kid since the poverty life is the only other alternative.

Safinated · 2024-01-02T16:18:05+00:00

People always reproduced right up to the limit. Not a modern thing

Autism has increased because we no longer say people are crazy and lock them in Institututions or prison

relish5k · 2024-01-02T01:17:44+00:00

Diagnostic criteria are so much wider than the used to be. Parents have an incentive to doctor shop until they get a diagnosis that can be used for an IEP to help a kid who is struggling.

Used to be that we let 8-12 year olds basically be in charge of young children, at least for recreation. Now we let the TV or iPad do it.

I don’t dispute a link between parental age and developmental disorders (tho it would certainly be convenient if you called out that specific section of the very long paper you have cited), but the rise of “mentally disabled kids” is certainly multifactorial

TidyMess123 · 2024-01-02T19:31:14+00:00

Woah there buddy… slow down. First off increase in autism diagnosis’s is largely due to to a widening of the spectrum of traits that gets one diagnosed as autistic, in addition to historically marginalized groups who previously lacked access to autism screenings actually getting screened.

But worst of all, so many of the scientific discoveries that have made our modern world what it is today - were discovered by individuals who are believed to have had autism under current diagnostic criteria. https://behavioral-innovations.com/blog/20-famous-people-with-autism-spectrum-disorder-asd/

iPanda_ · 2024-01-02T00:47:17+00:00

Ok then let women have abortions then lol.

MistyMaisel · 2024-01-02T04:36:24+00:00

Autistic people have children? Not in my America /s

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2024-01-02T04:56:17+00:00

My sister gave birth at 19 to an autistic kid.

AreOut · 2024-01-02T13:56:54+00:00

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html

"ASD is nearly 4 times more common among boys than among girls."

damn 80/20 is valid even here

Podlubnyi · 2024-01-02T15:28:25+00:00

My grandmother had her first child at 36 and her last at 42. They all turned out fine. Also bear in mind when making comparisons that autism and similar disorders was far less likely to be diagnosed, even in the recent past.

belfastbiker · 2024-01-02T16:23:46+00:00

I mean what you’re saying is nonsense,

Snekky3 · 2024-01-02T16:28:27+00:00

I like autistic people. More, please.

daddysgotanew · 2024-01-02T16:51:45+00:00

Autists build rockets and create bitcoin companies.

I thought we wanted progress?

Trikger · 2024-01-03T05:54:37+00:00

These kids will never contribute enough to society

Because... they have autism..? Autistic people will never contribute enough to society because they're autistic?

while fewer and fewer younger people are born to take care of an elder population and younger disabled people.

I think people are always born young. We live in a (western) society where children are not expected to take care of their elders in a personal way (washing them, changing their diapers, you name it) and the vast majority of people with autism can take care of themselves. Autism is, like most other neurodevelopmental disorders, considered an "invisible disorder." This is because, usually, you can't really see it.

The video you sent is quite concerning, as is the severity of the man's autism. As time progresses, so do the diagnostic criteria for disorders, especially neurodevelopmental ones. People used to smoke cigarettes while giving birth- cigarettes. Another variable that potentially causes autism.

While the number of smokers decreases over time, the number of people with autism doesn't. Certainly a few people having kids above the age of 35, something that has always happened, won't change the numbers that much, right?

And for the record, I know quite a few people on the spectrum. I grew up with one, too. They contribute to society. They'll survive just fine.

MateriallyRetarded · 2024-01-02T17:18:39+00:00

My mother was 36 when I was born… as a result I am deformed and autistic.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2024-01-02T19:45:26+00:00

These kids will never contribute enough to society

The improvements in diagnosis means that this is no longer true. It used to be that only the most extreme cases woukd get a diagnosis. Now plenty of people with one contribute as much as anyone else.

TomKikkert · 2024-01-02T00:37:02+00:00

Feminism is cancer.

Smooth_Possession_67 · 2024-01-03T00:16:13+00:00

Every autistic person I've known has a father that is much older... so I def think there is something to that...

The_Last_Dingleberry · 2024-01-03T01:15:56+00:00

remember, if you have children when you lack the economic means to raise them properly, you're selfish, you're also selfish if you wait to have kids. In fact in general having kids or not having kids are both choices that make you selfish. Quite frankly no matter what you do there will be dipshits like OP who decide you're the scum of the earth. And people wonder why no one gives a shit about societal opinions as of late.

What a joke, offer a solution or shut up, dumbass.

pizzapizzaisbad · 2024-01-02T04:00:23+00:00

Impulse control also plays a part.

Most women in the west do drugs and drink while they are pregnant. So that can also lead to such issues.

Crimson-Pilled · 2024-01-02T13:10:28+00:00

You're right, but women aren't willing to save their children's social skills, happiness, and future if it means settling down with a beta male. Pro-family policy has only come about from groups of men who decide to restrain women's selfish sexuality.

Eastern-Action1384 · 2024-01-02T09:40:21+00:00

True, having your first child at 30+ can pose challenges for both men and women. Many children born to older parents will face psychological issues and sometimes physical issues. While some argue that in the past, people had children at an older age, it's worth noting that those parents likely had established methods for raising kids, and the children were not alone but had siblings.

Tight-Breeder · 2024-01-02T15:49:18+00:00

Its not just autism, there are many issues that can arise.

Personally im going to have all my kids between 30 and before 40.

Antisocialite99 · 2024-01-02T18:13:36+00:00

Your data also doesn't really match your conclusions. It shows a HUGE change in these 20 years. Has the trend of having kids older really skyrocketed in those years that much, and was that rare before hand? My parents were both over 35 when they had me and i'm basically old now. It seems there are other variables taking effect in those years.

SecondEldenLord · 2024-01-02T10:30:45+00:00

Which is why so many kids in UK are autistic. The number of older women making kids in here is high, and this is why there are so many kids with autism.

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Cethlinnstooth · 2024-01-02T01:23:59+00:00

It's reproduce old or not at all for many people in this current economic climate.

lostacoshermanos · 2024-01-02T06:56:33+00:00

How do you know it’s because older women have kids the babies have autism? What if it’s all the sugar in our diet?

Antisocialite99 · 2024-01-02T18:01:32+00:00

So you've got info showing that having a kid when you're older increases chances of autism, but you haven't shown that that is what is responsible for the entire rise in autism. There very likely could be other factors.

purplish_possum · 2024-01-03T03:21:09+00:00

My youngest daughter, born when I was 47 and her mom was a few days shy of being 40, is the smartest kid in her large (over 1000 students) middle school. 99+ percentile is hardly disabled. Personality wise she's very similar to her big brother who was born when I was only 23.

Individual_Speech_10 · 2024-01-03T19:48:25+00:00

I'm autistic and my mom had me when she was 23

sadbitch55 · 2024-01-09T16:48:41+00:00

My father was born when my grandma was in her 40s and he is extremely disabled - he was a little more "normal" when he had me, but still, we all think he is somewhere in the autism spectrum. It's only that we didn't have Medicine like we do have now in those times, but autism still existed.

Title	Reproducing older is creating a generation of disabled kids, and it is morally abhorrent
Author	EuphoricBrightTipper
Upvotes	0
Comments	174
Date	January 2, 2024 12:33 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/18wblmh/reproducing_older_is_creating_a_generation_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/reproducing-older-is-creating-a-generation-of.1242052 https://theredarchive.com/post/1242052

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