Weekly Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2021-01-25T21:00:16+00:00

This weekly thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc......

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I remember jt was in the 80s that feminists first started talking about how women were affected psychologically and emotionally by unrealistic portrayals of how women should look in the media — magazines, beauty pageants, beer commercials, etc. They often got dismissed by men who were afraid that someone might listen to them and the media would stop catering to their desire to see sexy women plastered all over the place. “Ugly women are just mad/jealous.”

Fast forward to today, when unrealistic portrayals of how men should look are common place - advertising, porn, etc. And from what I see here and hear about across Reddit, young men seem to be traumatized by it, resulting in these very commonly expressed feelings of inadequacy over looks, dick size, etc. and anger that women are now judging them superficially the same way women have always been judged by men superficially.

It’s hard for older women like me to have sympathy for the dudes railing all over Reddit about how unfair it is that that their faces and bodies are being judged when we’ve spent our whole lives being judged for ours. But I also have a son. I don’t want him to grow up to have body image issues and feel that there’s something wrong with him.

IDK, do we need a male body positivity movement?

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As a kid who grew up in the '80s with a feministic mother who talked about/condemned media depictions/standards of women etc, I sort of felt like the goal was for society to move past it. There was very much a "this is forced on women" vibe to the whole thing.

But I think what's clear is that women just want to do the same. Rather than abolish the sexist objectification, they just want to join in. Which is fine, it just becomes "sexual objectification of people" rather than "sexual objectification of women" which reduces sexism. But y'all need to get your messages straight.

And no, there will be no male body positivity movement, because the female body positivity movement involved women dictating to men to not be superficial shitlords. Men dictating literally anything to women is a non-starter.

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I never got the whole "But we can't TELL he's going to be a bad lay!" imo you can tell how a guy will be in bed by how he interacts with you physically. I don't even think it's about selfishness or lack thereof. Guys who are very sensual, good kissers, good dancers, fluid in their movements, open body language, who freely touch and caress, who like making out and just touching a woman's body...are good at sex. All of that stuff is like 99% of what makes sex good for women, and it can be gleaned before you ever have sex with him. If he's got those bases covered the mechanics will take care of themselves.

I feel like the whole thing where women can't tell if a guy will be good in bed is either A, people jumping into bed without doing much making out or physical escalation first, or B, socially awkward people who don't find joy in flirting/seduction/escalation/"the dance." Or maybe/probably a combination of the two.

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According to recent research commissioned by the Russian State Duma, domestic violence takes place in approximately one out of ten Russian families. Seventy percent of those surveyed report that they have experienced or are experiencing domestic violence: 80% are women, with children and elderly people coming behind. Moreover, in 77% of surveyed cases, physical, psychological and economic violence go together. More than 35% of victims did not go to the police for assistance, citing shame, fear and mistrust.

That's a copy/paste from the same Wikipedia article you got your quote from I believe.

That is interesting that 80% of those experiencing domestic violence are women, children, and the elderly, but that 71% of deaths are male -- 1.4x more male death victims of domestic violence (includes familial not just spousal).

According to Rosstat, the number of victims of crimes involving violent actions against a family member in 2017 was (by sex) 25,7 thousand women and 10,4 thousand men.[13]

2.5x more female victims of violent actions than male victims.

I copy-pasted the "Number of victims of a family abuse" data chart in the "Violent crime statistics" section into Excel and did some quick conditional formatting.

From 2012 to 2018,

Female victims suffered violent attacks (31.3K) an average of 2.7x more than male victims (11.7K).
Female spouses suffered violent attacks (15.9K) an average of 8.5 more than male spouses (1.9K).
Female children suffered violent attacks (4.6K) on an average of only an imperceptible 1.06x more than male children (4.3K). In essence, male and female children victims suffer all the same.

Could be a lot of reasons why female victims suffer more violent attacks, but male victims over-index for deaths:

Male children and male elders might comprise a bulk of that death distribution. And there are a lot of reasons why male children especially are more prone to death in these domestic environments.
It's possible men in Russia are being murdered in cold blood by their spouses/elders/children.
It's possible women/elders/children are experiencing ongoing domestic violence and retaliating with fatal force.

If it's the third bullet, it's sort of why I feel "get a gun" makes me uncomfortable. If a man punches another man in the face, reasonable force would be punching him back in the face. If a man punches me in the face, me punching him back will not cause damage and stop the attack. I'd have to knock him in the head with an iron fire poker or shoot him to neutralize him. However, me doing that might kill him, which isn't my intent. Now I'm on an episode of Snapped/ in jail lol.

There's always a holistic picture to paint Mr. Jdobrila.

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From the database of court decisions of the State Arbitration Court of the Russian Federation "Justice" we have collected the convictions handed down by the courts against women from 2016 to 2018. In total, we were able to study 2,552 verdicts under Part 1 of Article 105 of the Criminal Code (murder) and 1,716 - under Part 4 of Article 111 of the Criminal Code (causing grievous bodily harm resulting in death).

We read and manually marked about 500 sentences under both articles, highlighting those in which it was said that the deceased had used violence against the accused before his death. As a rule, such verdicts dealt with several types of violence at once - here we were guided by the Istanbul Convention and the position of the WHO, which suggests that violence can be physical (spanking, slapping, hitting and beating), sexual (forced sexual intercourse and other forms sexual violence) and psychological (threats, insults). The main signs of violence are the impact on a partner against his will, the use of their social (position in society, power, gender) and physical (height, weight) advantages.

Based on these hand-labeled texts, a machine learning algorithm (Random Forest Classifier) analyzed the sentences. The accuracy of the results was 85% for part 1 of article 105 of the Criminal Code and 82% for part 4 of article 111 of the Criminal Code.

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To piggy bag of smurfs comment on dumpster diving I remember I was reading a Reddit thread I think titled “ugly people with attractive best friends, what’s the experience like?”

There was this one woman who claimed to have a hot best friend. They would go to clubs/bars, men would hit on her hot friend all night and get rejected, she of course would get ignored. At the end of the night or around closing time at the bar those men would then line up to try to hit on her because they couldn’t get the hot friend as a last resort. She would turn them down and they would get so angry “like how dare you say no to me, you’re ugly” lol. The girl was like it’s so embarrassing when you know a guy is only talking to you because he’s desperate and wants to stick his penis in something warm and tight for the night.

My only problem with that is, it’s not like the dudes think the “hot” friend is anything more than something they want to stick their dicks in either she’s just prettier. They don’t give a fuck about her as a person or her feelings, they tryna get laid. Ugly girls act like pretty girls don’t get pumped and dumped lol.

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They do that so the family can depend on the children for finances in the future.

That's what trad parents expect from men financial competency, normally women are expected to become house makers, take care of kids and old people, etc.

Also I personally think it’s all about control but it’s also just a familial structure of hierarchies.

Kids with neglecting parents will more likely to become outcasts and miserable people.

But yeah no the boys are cherished 10x more it’s like a disappointment to everyone when a girl is born.

Are you some sort of royal family? Or do you live in middle-east? That's not true for the most part of the world.

Plus the guys are overall treated with more respect and hardly ever critiqued day to day.

Probably no one will care when these guys hit the wall.

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Don't worry, we won't have a child here.

Good

I don't get either masculinity or femininity. These are just traits that both genders can or should have.

These are expected traits from both genders. You cannot have qualities from both sides because they are polarised. Those have practical reasons from evolutionary perspective. For example, empathy is attractive on women, unattractive on men because men should be able to kill animals, enemy tribesmen, competitors while women should be empathetic to understand child's needs or for those to be taken care of.

Nowadays women are more free from these expectations, but men are still subject to them. When libtards claim that men should also be free from these gender roles, it fuels the supply of soy boys, incels and deadbeats, men who get trampled by higher status, but economical conditions cannot offer enough value for everyone, there is surplus of young men and they don't have any place or value in society anymore. Do you now understand the harm of raising a non-masculine boy now?

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i disagree a bit.

i would agree that kids in general shouldn't be spoiled, but little boys should be cherished, treated gently, and protected just like little girls. they're kids, they are sheltered from the hardships of life for a bit until they grow up. that doesn't mean that kids shouldn't be helping in the house, learning, etc. but in my opinion, they shouldn't be raised to guard their emotions from everyone and be stoic (no matter the gender), or be insecure and not think they are enough. because they are, and they will be, if they have capable parents and at least average genetics.

they'll be able to support themselves, hopefully have a decent career that they like. that's what they will need to sustain themselves on their own.

plus, not everyone should be raised with heteronormative gender norms (i mean, it doesn't have to be raising kids all pc and woke, but just not with strict gender norms -- girls do this, boys do this, blah blah blah). this can be restrictive and traumatic for some people as they get older. edit: though of course, this is just my opinion and view. some parents may prefer to raise traditionally and idc but i just noticed that comes with a set of issues, which i see in teenagers nowadays who outwardly reject it all (such as teens from conservative immigrant fams).

[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

but little boys should be cherished, treated gently, and protected just like little girls. they're kids, they are sheltered from the hardships of life for a bit until they grow up.

I don’t say they should be treated badly, but people should tone down their treatment a little on boys and they shouldn't be sheltered from hardships ever. It is very important to shut affection off from them early on so that they will not be used to given everything and will learn to take what they want.

they shouldn't be raised to guard their emotions from everyone and be stoic (no matter the gender), or be insecure and not think they are enough. because they are, and they will be, if they have capable parents and at least average genetics.

Disagreed, raising them in softer environment will have worse consequences in the long run, what needs to be taught isn't surpressing their emotions but not to exhibit, it is okay if they cry when no one is around (not frequently tho). Some boys are naturally emotional from birth, thankfully stoicism is not a birth trait and can be learnt and earlier to shape in childhood.

they'll be able to support themselves, hopefully have a decent career that they like. that's what they will need to sustain themselves on their own.

I anticipate harsher economical conditions in near future (i pray to be wrong) for the most part in the world, therefore we need to raise masculine and strong boys more than ever, if we don’t want to fuel suicide rates, porn/gaming addictions, etc.

plus, not everyone should be raised with heteronormative gender norms (i mean, it doesn't have to be raising kids all pc and woke, but just not with strict gender norms -- girls do this, boys do this, blah blah blah). this can be restrictive and traumatic for some people as they get older.

No, just no. Don't let your child to be victim of some propaganda of uncertainity. Thankfully girls are getting some freedom of expression but we are not there yet for the boys. Those traumas can be cured but their established personality defections will never and will cause recurring traumas.

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Oh I realized I never replied to this but it's an interesting comment.

It is very important to shut affection off from them early on so that they will not be used to given everything and will learn to take what they want.

:/ Nah, I'm not going to shut off affection from kids if I do end up having them. I don't see how that can be helpful for anyone. Some people needed to be hugged as kids.

but not to exhibit

I think it's fine to exhibit emotions, man or woman, but both in moderation. I want to teach kids to be able to handle their emotions in a healthy manner and be able to control them (so yeah, not frequently exhibit them, but exhibit them when they feel comfortable or around people who they trust and love). I wished my dad showed emotion other than anger more often, for example, because I know he feels it. It makes me roll my eyes seeing people pretend to be tough. I feel really detached from stoic people, and I feel like others do as well.

(i pray to be wrong)

:( I pray you're wrong too, but you're probably right.

masculine and strong boys

Men can be strong without being strictly traditionally masculine. Men can also be masculine while being able to comfortable and healthily express their emotions (instead of through anger or violence). Men should be allowed to cry (especially around those who love them!). It's not black and white, I think. Just the fact that he is male and feels male and expresses himself as a male human being makes him masculine to me. The big strong tall broad man who never cries is not more of a man to me than the average sized sensitive man who expresses emotions healthily and tries his best. But of course, sexually many women will respond to one more (but at the end of the day that has to do with looks, frame, height, etc. more than sensitivity -- an attractive man crying is "awww"-worthy even to the most traditional women, but I feel like there's less traditional women nowadays and more encouraging women who want emotionally healthy men, that's not to say all women are but increasingly so).

Thankfully girls are getting some freedom of expression but we are not there yet for the boys.

How sweet you are to say "thankfully". I agree, and it should be the same for boys. I actually see the tides changing for little boys too. If I have a son, I'll just do my best to raise him happy and healthy. I don't care much to form and craft him into a stoic, possibly repressed manly man (I mean, will that even attract the right women who will treat him kindly? The most compassionate women I know who care about their partners are the ones who understand men's emotions and let them express themselves). On a side note, anyways, with the way the world is looking right now, and because I feel right now that I am not strong enough, I don't think I want children. But if I had the capability, then I would raise my kids equally and with compassion (but still strictness and cultural values, like my parents, as well).

[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't see how that can be helpful for anyone. Some people needed to be hugged as kids.

It will make him dependent on affection and love later years. He will be a happy kid but a depressed adult when he will not find these.

I wished my dad showed emotion other than anger more often, for example, because I know he feels it. It makes me roll my eyes seeing people pretend to be tough. I feel really detached from stoic people, and I feel like others do as well.

Showing masculine emotions like anger are acceptable and expected by most women.

Men can be strong without being strictly traditionally masculine. Men can also be masculine while being able to comfortable and healthily express their emotions (instead of through anger or violence). Men should be allowed to cry (especially around those who love them!). It's not black and white, I think. Just the fact that he is male and feels male and expresses himself as a male human being makes him masculine to me.

That makes no sense.

If I have a son, I'll just do my best to raise him happy and healthy.

Being a man is not about hapiness, it is about enduring all the suffering of living and keep going forward regardless.

I don't care much to form and craft him into a stoic, possibly repressed manly man

That's taking unnecessary risk. But as you said as long as he is born with superior genetics he will be fine after all.

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The option of staying behind in a devastated land may have been even less appealing than traveling to a new home.

Tell me more about how possibly not starving to death is the same thing as "funny thing is that the victors of war always seem sexier than the losers." You're also dismissing that staying behind isn't actually an option if you're dragged off against your will. The same men who've just devastated the land and murdered many of the local men aren't the sexy perfect gentlemen you seem to want to believe.

Also, we don't know if rape was involved in this case.

Sure, it's just highly likely based on the description given. And you're being ridiculously naive to deny mass rape and bride kidnapping happens to many in war.

to be used as bargaining chips

Being used as a bargaining chip isn't voluntary for the women and has nothing to do with your original claim that women all find the victors oh so sexy, either, and you know it.

Also, voluntary war brides are a thing.

Sometimes women voluntarily choose to marry outsiders, true. And even there, that's not actually the same as finding the man sooo sexy, which is what you said: "funny thing is that the victors of war always seem sexier than the losers".

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And, well, it's hard to find any statistics about rape even now, because lots of victims don't go to the police.

It’s not that hard. Rape stats are widely available in the US, and even if you assume that only a third of rapes are reported, it’s extremely rare - and conception through rape is even more rare.

And it’s certainly more rare in civilized society than it was in “uncivilized” society for which we do have genetic evidence of women’s sexual choice patterns which reflects high levels of choosiness.

Again, I’m not saying that rape didn’t happen. Just saying that it is not now, nor has it ever been the normalized method of human reproduction. Rather the normal method of reproduction of Homo Sapiens Sapiens has been female mate selection, just like it is for all the other sexually reproducing animal species on the planet in which the rearing of young requires significant parental effort.

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No of course it’s not too much I just want to make sure it’s not too light. Of course we wanted to pay her $15/hour as a nanny when she was working full time but it was out of our budget. She asked for $14/hour when she applied and we upped it to 14.25, because we thought that was more fair/and within what we could afford. We would have loved to pay $15/hour for her as a nanny but it just wasn’t in our budget. We were getting help from my grandma to pay for a nanny as it was but we then extended her employment for like 10 months because of Covid because my student loans were deferred. I cannot put them off anymore.

We paid her over 2.5k a month that’s not just some expense we can say hey no biggie and the only reason we could pay that after my grandma stopped helping is because I wasn’t paying my student loans because they’ve been deferred during Covid. But I need to start paying them now. We pay $720 for daycare now, we were paying over $2.5k for a nanny.

I just want to pay her more now when she babysits because she’s so wonderful. I’m wondering if $15/hour is the norm for babysitting or if it’s more?

Edit: because we also included her hourly amount in our budget we also gave her paid leave ie during vacations we’d still pay her. I wouldn’t do that with just a babysitter, obviously. It would not make sense

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Ethicists Say to Take the Covid-19 Vaccine if You Can. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/opinion/covid-vaccine-ethics.html

...

“If they call you to get vaccinated, you should go,” said Arthur Caplan, a bioethicist and the founding director of the division of medical ethics at New York University’s Grossman School of Medicine.

There are a number of reasons to get a shot if it’s offered to you. For one thing, there’s no reason to believe that if you forgo your dose, it will go to someone with a higher risk.

“As we’re finding out, that’s not really the way the vaccine allocation systems are being set up,” said Debjani Mukherjee, a psychologist and a medical ethicist at Weill Cornell Medical College. Many vaccines are being distributed by institutions that can’t transfer extra doses elsewhere or to specific populations, explained Kyle Ferguson, a medical ethicist at the Grossman School of Medicine.

...

Incidentally the earmarking was a major problem at my hospital. We were given X doses that were expected to barely cover all frontline staff (with a somewhat bizarre extremely broad definition of frontline but that didn't end up mattering...), and even then the first wave frontline staff basically balked. We were forbidden to give doses to nursing students etc. They ended up having no choice but to expand to all employees (based on the hospital's approved wave schedule).

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Been thinking about this concept for awhile now, but I haven't really thought of any other way that it could be expressed better.

Women's partner choices, crushes and guys that they're interested in seem to all share a common trait that I'm going to use movies and stories to depict: they all gravitate toward someone who is "main character - worthy."

What does that mean? Well, women typically go for main male characters in movies, TV shows and stories, or male characters who overshadow the main character. Oh, and they're also usually/coincidentally conventionally attractive, too.

There are plenty of other examples that could be used to highlight this concept, as well as some exceptions to be noted, but the main tenet is that women want men that seem like a main character on the world stage. There are also a few reasons for that as well, but the main ones have to do with safety, comfort and security. Main characters don't usually fail. They always survive in the end, and they're important enough to make things happen or be at the right place at the right time.

One counter-point to this: projection of vanity.

Women seem to like all main characters or super "important" people, like celebrities, because women desire to be in the spotlight themselves, whether that means being adored by hundreds of thousands of people, or the few special people that they want to be noticed by.

(InB4 "but men seek attention and adoration too" - no u)

Anymore counterpoints to add? Any opposition to this concept?

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Counterpoint: in media, the main characters and their buddies usually get the most character development, and we have thought process behind what they do. The creators try to make the audience empathize with them. Isn't it natural for people in average to be most attracted to the characters they get to know the best and empathize with the most? Even if status/fame wasn't a factor at all.

And with respect to celebrities, media saturation gives the average person way too much personal info about celebs, often more than you will know about a typical aquaintance in your own life. Mostly presented in flattering ways because they have PR agents. If you see all the flattering details about someone's life, isn't it easy to feel like you know them well when you actually know an airbrushed version of their public face?

How can you separate the impacts of empathy and status?

I'm fully in agreement that conventionally attractive people will get a lot of positive attention just from that.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4012696/

Overall, the results indicate that the most often cited reasons for divorce at the individual level were lack of commitment (75.0%), infidelity (59.6%), and too much conflict and arguing (57.7%), followed by marrying too young (45.1%), financial problems (36.7%), substance abuse (34.6%), and domestic violence (23.5%). Other problems, such as religious differences, were endorsed less than 20% of the time.

...

Furthermore, when participants were asked if their partner should have worked harder to save their marriages, 65.8% of men and 73.8% of women believe that their ex-spouse should have worked harder to save their marriages. Conversely, when participants were asked if they, personally, should have worked harder to save their marriages, only 31.6% of men and 33.3% of women expressed that they, personally, should have worked harder. Further, at the couple level, 70.6% of couples showed a pattern in which the women believed their ex-husbands should have worked harder to save their relationships while their ex-husbands did not believe they, themselves, should have worked harder. Only 11.7% agreed that the husband should have worked harder and 11.7% had the husband endorse that he should have worked harder with the wife disagreeing. Conversely, only 35.3% of couples displayed the pattern in which the men blamed their ex-wives for not working harder while their ex-wives, themselves, denied that they should have worked harder. Only 11.7% agreed that the wife should have worked harder and 17.7% had the wife endorsed that she should have worked harder with her husband disagreeing. Further, 35.3% of couples agreed that the wife had not needed to work harder to save the marriage, while only 5.9% of couples agreed that the husband had not needed to work harder. Thus, most participants believed their ex-partners should have worked harder, but at the couple level, there were more couples in which both partners agreed that the wife did not need to work harder than there were couples in which both partners agreed the husband did not need to work harder.

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42, it is The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything...

69 first appears in Pi at the end of 42 digits

Genesis 16:5

^And ^Sarai ^said ^unto ^Abram, ^My ^wrong ^be ^upon ^thee: ^I ^have ^given ^my ^maid ^into ^thy ^bosom; ^and ^when ^she ^saw ^that ^she ^had ^conceived, ^I ^was ^despised ^in ^her ^eyes: ^the ^LORD ^judge ^between ^me ^and ^thee.

^^I ^^am ^^a ^^bot. ^^I ^^Like ^^Pi. ^^3 ^^· ^^14

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So has anyone else had the experience that things turn to shit as they get older?

There's a specific term for it but it's when people lose the sensation of things being enjoyable or exciting that once were. I used to enjoy a lot of things but as I've gone through life and acquired more experiences, some things have lost their luster, so to speak. It's only been at certain times that they've come back, only to disappear later again.

Is that a natural consequence of getting older? Is it depression? Is it habituation? I'm still trying to figure it out because it seems like it's a life destroyer.

South Park did a really good episode about it and a lot of it resonated with me. Even more so because The Matrix was included as a theme in it.

Here's a few clips for context. They're both pretty short:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxRFQ_333_Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2LkM-tBT4o

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I used to love reading. I could read a book a day honestly. Haven’t been able to do that in years. I used to be more creative but also haven’t been able to tap into that.

I feel the same. Used to be able to get lost in books for hours, and still might be able to do that depending on the book, but boring books I can't bring myself to read.

I think my brain has more stressors and considerations to retain as I age, so I don’t have the capacity for certain things.

Makes sense.

But I’ve also developed new interests and enjoyments. Change is natural. We evolve into new joys and rediscover old ones all the time. I don’t think it has to be depressing. I’ve never viewed it as such.

Not depress-ing. Rather that depression would be related to the cause of loss of joy or excitement. The term is called "anhedonia" which is the inability to feel joy or pleasure, and often accompanies depression.

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Your tastes change.

For example, I have enjoyed sailing since I was young, but never really cared much for racing, but now, even as I write this, I am enthralled by the Prada Cup races.

Similarly, from my 30s through early 40s I enjoyed owning and driving high performance sport and sporty luxury cars, in part because I had a substantial commute. Now that I have more leisure time and no commute, I have more practical cars and prefer to spend my time riding motorcycles.

I used to love to travel to the big resorts in Colorado/Utah and the Alps to ski a couple of times a year in addition to weekends in VT, now I’d much rather ski a couple of my smaller local mountains out West all season.

It’s not that things are generally less enjoyable so much as my priorities for what is enjoyable have changed.

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Similarly, from my 30s through early 40s I enjoyed owning and driving high performance sport and sporty luxury cars, in part because I had a substantial commute.

Must be nice. I really want a Porsche 911 Turbo S, but I'm not sure if I would simply enjoy driving it. I like going fast but so did Paul Walker, apparently.

I have more practical cars and prefer to spend my time riding motorcycles.

I can understand that. I still have my motorcycle endorsement on my license but the old people and foreigners/islanders driving in Florida are too much for my body to handle tumbling in the road for. I've had one mishap and don't need anymore broken bones. I'm guaranteed arthritis in too many joints already.

I used to love to travel to the big resorts in Colorado/Utah and the Alps to ski a couple of times a year in addition to weekends in VT, now I’d much rather ski a couple of my smaller local mountains out West all season.

I'd really like to get into snowboarding but there's not much snow or mountains in Florida and I don't have the money for travel and lodging. It's on my list though.

It’s not that things are generally less enjoyable so much as my priorities for what is enjoyable have changed.

Yeah, I think that sounds pretty accurate. It's just that there seems to be fewer things I actually enjoy or am interested in these days. Looking for new hobbies but everything seems so blah and some are just too expensive to be practical.

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I really want a Porsche 911 Turbo S, but I'm not sure if I would simply enjoy driving it.

You would, if only because you’d appreciate its utter engineering competency (despite having the engine in the wrong place) and the ability to achieve insane speeds and cornering performance while maintaining the everyday driveability and reliability of a Lexus luxury sedan.

After riding a decent road bike, though, it’s hard to extract the same thrill from driving. I’ve had some sweet cars in my life and not a single one of them is anywhere close to as thrilling as a Tuono V4 1100 Factory. To your point, they’re a bunch safer though.

I'd really like to get into snowboarding but there's not much snow or mountains in Florida

Surfing bro! Love it about as much as skiing, though I’m not as experienced and haven’t developed the same skill set.

Had the opportunity to lease a great beachfront house at a really beautiful small beach near where I grew up for a few months and I went surfing with the children every day that I could.

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to who? women in their age range or younger women? i can speak of my friends and myself, who are younger: we would much rather be with (ltr or hook-ups) + are obviously more attracted to, men around our age right now... so younger men (20s). most women my age (18 to our 20s) would rule out men past mid or maybe late 30s (unless he's realllly attractive, standing on a pile of cash, so that's why you see people of all ages lusting after older celebrities).

older women (40+) who still have high libidos and want sex, are probably less likely to have strict age requirements, some can get an attractive younger men to fuck or, usually some man their own age that shows interest (and to fuck or date). i think most people past their 50s are mostly unfuckable to anyone except each other/long term partners (and many don't even want to, and many don't care for the effort. life gets exhausting, i'm guessing).

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They would rather share the high status men with each other than "go back" to reality. And if you bring a logical case for why its a losing strategy for them, rationalization hamster 1 takes over and they will flip that logic and deliberately misintepret it to continue doing what they were doing.

Which is why the phrase "hitting the wall" phrase can piss many women on the internet. Its because its true. Hell, I would argue, its not even TRP that said it first. Almost every country has its own saying that talks about this.

They only come back to reality when reality drags them off the feet with it after a certain age.

(1)- not saying its only women who rationalize. Men do it too, but we face much more personal, professional or reputational consequences for it. But women don't have the opportunity to correct their behavior like men hence it runs more wild amongst women. This is why many guys find it practically impossible to "win" an argument with a girl irl. Logic can't win when women use nearly every conceivable fallacious tricks against them.

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Why are small towns sausage fests while big cities have more women than men?

Besides what others have said about the hypergamy tournament, small town life centres more around blue-collar work typically done by men.

Also in terms of people who go off grid why are they almost always dudes?

To me this is the more interesting question. Pretty clearly it reflects woman's tendency towards comfort-seeking, codependency, need for social drama, groupthink (or the converse - less tolerance for thinking-outside-the-box), and so forth.

I've had this discussion frequently, on another forum, the question of how you locate a woman willing to go off-grid. It must be done with care and strategy! Typically you must find a woman who was raised with some measure of rural poverty or independence, who dislikes or is uncomfortable with modernity in the same way as you.

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Interesting thread over at r/askwomen

There’s an idea that women are wired to elicit utility from not just men, but women and children too - including her own children. Sometimes this means they view children as things to add value to her own life, even though she may think it’s unconditional love...

For example

Man, I hear you. My mum thought I’d be happy to know she wanted me so much... but because she wanted someone “who would always love her and choose her,” and I always fell short of her expectations. It sucks.

Yes yes I know it might just be a coincidence. But it’s not the only comment I’ve found that supports this claim. I think many women can relate to the “guilt-tripping” that mothers do to their kids to get them to visit, call, take care of them later in life, etc.

—

Also interesting that the trope of the father who tries to turn his son into the sports star he never could be is also alive and well in mother/daughter relationships

I am glad I saw this. I wanted a sort of "do-over-me". a daughter that I could teach all the things to that my mom didn't teach me that would be a better mini me. Like how to do my hair and things about my body and stuff I didn't learn til I was 30 but should have know def before 20. I still wanted her to be my bestie and like all the same things as me, just with a life head start.

Anyways I was absolutely crushed when I found out I would be having a boy. But now I can't imagine having a girl? Life is weird. I think I have chilled out much more now.

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Why do bloops constantly misinterpret RP?

In a perfect case scenario, men would absolutely love it when they can have casual sex with multiple women for all their early to mid 20s or even to their late 20's if they had the opportunity to do it. You know, like women currently do.

But... alas its real life. No average man will ever achieve that dream. So they make a compromise. They would like to exchange their commitment for LTR with a young woman who has a low n count, and possibly have babies, and grow old. We like young low n count women because they are less likely to have baggage out of a cock carousel lifestyle, and they also have a track record of showing commitment to men they interact with, etc.

But even that is practically impossible today because of modern woman's unrestrained hypergamy where women price themselves out of average man's capabilities for sex OR relationships.

This is why many men are frustrated. Most women today are hoes but they shamelessly demand and feel like they are entitled to gentleman's treatment. Women seem to forget that a man can only be gentleman to a lady.

RP doesn't give a shit about virgins. Their main strategy is all about casual sex. What you (and many people in this misinterpret) is RP is part of different ideological group that is manosphere.

As for your last question, I can't answer because I have yet to meet a woman irl who's gender non confirming.

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Uh huh you just compared someone identifying as an alien species the same as identifying as non-binary.

The principle is the same and applies similarly in both cases.

So you are very much asserting that non-binary people are not actually non-binary.

I am asserting that the term “non-binary” is very much Newspeak and exists to fulfill the same role as all other Newspeak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak).

You’re wrong but even so this doesn’t account for psychology and biology courses.

As I have repeatedly asserted, college level coursework is far from definitive truth. Quite often it is the opposite. And to the extent that such courses preclude the critical evaluation of their own content they are little more than indoctrination.

By way of example, more than a few college level history courses declare that the Nazi Party was not a socialist political movement despite the fact that the term Nazi itself is short for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers Party).

So much for a fallacious appeal to that authority.

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No. Its not love exactly. How do I put it? Its like taking hard drugs. Go ask any drug addict how they felt being on drugs, and they will unanimously say they had some of the best experiences in their life. But they come crashing hard in real world because that high doesn't exist in day to day life.

Its falling for obviously unavailable man and losing her pair bonding capabilities in the process. An alpha widow has a specific meaning within the context of manosphere.

It means a woman crashing down and falling head first in the ground after getting a taste of chad because she aimed beyond her pay grade.

An alpha widow should be completely avoided at all costs because she's going to be perpetually resentful no matter what you do or how much effort you put in the relationship.

An alpha widow will blame you even if you are doing the best because what is best to you is not even 10% of what she actually experienced. So you will be destined to be her punching bag because you will never live up to her taste in men.

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

It’s another one of those things that’s pretty basic once you strip away the egdelord language. Someone who is used to HV partners who finds themselves no longer able to attract the same quality partner (due to aging or other factors) might be resentful and think they’re settling. Likely applies to most people (male and female) who don’t adjust their expectations and check themselves.

Are there women like this? Sure. Are there men like this? Sure. Is it a given? No.

I always use this example: there are many women my age who are divorced and their kids are older and they’re out there dating again. From what I’ve seen most are well aware the type of man they’re going to be dating is likely quite different than when they were in their 20s. Most seem fine with it (and as women get older they have different priorities anyway).

Manosphere types — myopic, neurotic and risk averse by nature — live in fear of being beta bucks-ed by such women. Because 1) they think people are robots programmed by biology, 2) they don’t know how to vet, and 3) they couldn’t attract quality women when they were younger so why would quality women want them now. It’s a projection of their own feelings of inadequacy.

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Scrolled r/smalldickproblems and have mixed feelings about it. From one hand, I'm really sorry for guys who experience problems with their penises, that's shitty and that's not something they can just change by a whim, from the other, lots of them seem to have close to average dicks and they're just angry that they can't just "pound" a girl and make it work for her just by having a big dick. They're angry and bitter that they have to out any extra efforts into sex for their partners or that they have a limited list of poses that work for them.

I guess at least partially it's all a result of porn and porn obsession. People's standards and ideas how sex and men and women's bodies should look like are exaggerated to unrealistic ideals seen as "average".

Plus, are there really a lot of women who like raw pounding without much of anything else?

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Finally something I have expertise on lol. As someone who's banned from that sub, their chief complaint is valid. Not only do women generally over-estimate the size of cocks, they also prefer larger than average ones; not even always for physical pleasure but rather for visual stimulation. Although many if not most obviously also like physical stimulation part of it.

When you're not equipped properly, there's certain subset of women that just won't consider you despite all your other fantastic qualities.

Plus, are there really a lot of women who like raw pounding without much of anything else?

Not a lot, most women want big penis, and EVERYTHING else too.

But your assessments is really superficial. That sub is about wallowing in your own self-pity, and just bitching about how unfair the world is. It's a pressure release valve. Its "Finally I can talk about this issue!" sub. They don't want women there.

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[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Hillary was clearly expected to win in 2016. Not really much of a hullabaloo about the numerical votes in that one.

My understanding was that she won the popular vote, but failed to get the representative votes, which are the ones that actually count, apparently. State reps are supposed to vote according to the public majority vote, but they, also apparently, don't have to. That's why Trump won instead of Hillary in 2016, if everything is correct here.

Now, in this election, there was some clearly shady things going on surrounding the election, ending with Biden magically leading the polls overnight. I've seen some info floating around that China is linked to the software in some of the voter boxes which allegedly were found to be vote-switching ballots from Trump to Biden. Then there's the other conspiracy that people were running ballots for Biden after the voting locations were closed. Not sure if any of that info is going to come out to the public because if there is indeed collusion, corruption and fraud going on, the people in charge and responsible aren't going to allow the public to hear about it.

I don't personally care which one actually won because I think they're all full of crap and would run for Prez myself if I could, but I think voter fraud and corruption are pretty significant things to care about if you're a citizen of a country and believe that your vote actually matters/counts for something, but people don't seem to care what happens as long as they win, and will make excuses/overlook any mistakes made by those of their side as long as they can still feel like they won in the end.

[–]GridReXX2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It wasn’t magic at all. It was talked about all over mainstream media and political news sites for months before the election that many Dems would be casting their votes via Dropbox and mail in. My parents in PA mailed in their votes in September and they were alerted that their votes had been received in September. Trump and GOP politicians spent months scaring their constituents to not vote via mail or Dropbox and to vote day of and in person. There was a concerted effort to compromise USPS by that administration as well.

I’m from Pennsylvania. The republicans in the Pennsylvania senate strong armed some bizarre but strategic legislation summer 2020 that “mail in ballots could only be counted the day of.”

I believe their hope was that they could invalidate the mail in ballots at some point and make a last ditch effort to steal the election. If any side was strategizing in advance how to suppress actual votes in advance it was the GOP. Per usual.

Hence the mail in ballots sat unopened and unorganized for months. Up until the day of the election which is silly asf but exactly what the GOP in office wanted to happen.

Anyway the media and everyone who was paying attention was aware that the election results would have a trump lead but that the slant could and would likely flip once the mail in ballots began to be counted. Which is actually what happened.

There was no “magic.” Literally no magic. No fraud. Just democracy. And lots of voter suppression courtesy of the GOP which of course they conveniently never want to admit. Just fake and nonsensical cries of “fraud” 🙄

Most of my lawyer friends had a blast pulling their hair out / laughing at how ridiculous most of the legal suits were. None of them held any weight. Which is why Biden is the current president and won GA 3x over.

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If people didn't know or hear anything about that, which wasn't really broadcasted onto every TV in the US, then it would appear as if by magic that Biden suddenly came out on top with a few hundred thousand mystery votes.

I'm still waiting to see if anything on that Dominion inc. stuff comes back because that might be interesting to see, though I doubt that any actual fraud would be released to the public. It's not as though the media is unbiased and owned by individual people. They're just as interested in shaping public interest as they are about reporting what happens, so if something happens that wouldn't be good to release to the public that would also indirectly hurt them as well, they're not going to release it.

There does, however, seem to be a more concerted effort to increase the amount of "democracy" currently in our nation's republic(?), and it seems like becoming a full-blown democracy is a possibility in the future for this country. Not saying that like it's necessarily a bad thing but history has already shown that full-blown democracy doesn't work as a political/governmental structure. Guess we'll have to wait and see what act is up next on this circus brochure.

[–]GridReXX2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say? That when votes are actually counted suddenly democracy feels like a conspiracy? I want to laugh but what you just implied has been the talking points of assholes wanting to suppress the black vote for the past 150 years lol. When votes from people they don’t value are counted, suddenly the system is broken to them. It isn’t lost on me you have no reaction to GOP voter suppression strategies enacted all 2020. Just reactions to democracy in action.

And I can’t help that GOP conspiracy theorists don’t pay attention to actual legislation or feel the news is “biased.” That legislation in PA was “biased” but I’m sure they were fine with that.

I live in WA. The whole state is only vote by mail/Dropbox and has been for years. The system works fine.

There were no mystery votes. GOP took advantage of mail in being new to many states and took advantage of the mindlessness of their own constituents. People are stupid asf and it feels they’re actually getting stupider in this mass Information Age. Not bright enough to distill and process despite the reality being offered to them freely.

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Power went out right in the middle of typing the last reply, so here I go again...

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say? That when votes are actually counted suddenly democracy feels like a conspiracy?

No.. Democracy is related to the conspiracy in this sense, but is not the conspiracy itself, per se.

I want to laugh but what you just implied has been the talking points of assholes wanting to suppress the black vote for the past 150 years lol.

What's ironic here is that Democracy is what actively kept the black vote suppressed and kept blacks without rights for quite awhile in caucasian-dominated USA. I'm not sure why you think that (separating people by race here) white people would vote in the interest of blacks and vice versa. Don't say "equality" because most people only care about equality in the sense that things are equal for themselves, and as long as they're good, then nothing more need be done. The thing about Democracy is that majority rules, and people are aware of it, so they also understand that increasing the voter base of certain people translates to more voting power, and equals more physical power. Taking the previous notion into consideration, if Blacks had majority vote, they wouldn't care about anyone else either. They'd vote for themselves, same as everyone else does. There is no moral-ocracy governing the country, so people can actively try to screw everyone else over, by lying, cheating and fraud and whatnot. The people who believe that everyone is honestly participating and has everyone else's best interests at heart are the ones that are going to be surprised when and if the curtain falls, but as long as people believe that they won and their vote meant something, they likely won't care.

When votes from people they don’t value are counted, suddenly the system is broken to them.

Well, yes. I'm sure people would feel the system was broken if people from other countries could vote in their elections. For people living here in the US, they might feel the same if foreigners are gaining citizenship and then voting to change the country into one that benefits them more than the people who were born and raised here.

It isn’t lost on me you have no reaction to GOP voter suppression strategies enacted all 2020. Just reactions to democracy in action.

Personally, I'm pretty aware that both "sides" are corrupt so I don't really think much of the two-party system or of the people in official government seats, and hearing about corruption doesn't really surprise me at all. I'm more concerned that people are so caught up in "muh democracy" and "muh rights" and "muh president" that they don't see themselves caught up in that false dichotomy and their own hypocrisy.

People are stupid asf and it feels they’re actually getting stupider in this mass Information Age. Not bright enough to distill and process despite the reality being offered to them freely.

I can agree there, though most people are ignorant of things that they shouldn't be, and even though some things are offered freely, people have to know what they're looking for to actually find it.

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The best argument is pattern recognition; seeing the big picture; fitting together a number of pieces that don't have answers on their own.

At this time, it appears that Hillary was "supposed" to win in 2016. The fix was supposed to be in for her; it was "her turn"; and what this meant in practical terms is that the voting was rigged to supply her with slightly more votes than she really received. Unfortunately for her, Trump enthusiasm was so powerful that the fraudsters did not sufficiently tilt the table in her favour, leading to her unexpected (to her) loss. This is why she appeared so angry during those post-election weeks.

During the 2020 election, all bets were off. The Deep State was not going to tolerate a repeat of 2016, so they placed a hand on the scale that was heavy enough to make DARN SURE Trump would "lose". Unfortunately (for them), this hand had to be so heavy (in order to compensate for Trump’s yuge popularity) that it was easily visible through statistical analysis and other oddities.

This is why many Americans went to sleep with Trump ahead by a lot in their states but awoke to find that his lead had evaporated, erased by thousands of votes that mysteriously came in after midnight, uniformly and impossibly ALL for Biden. Actuarial analysis all but proves that these votes were fraudulent.

Another piece of the puzzle is the 2018 Executive Order on election interference, showing that Team Trump expected all of this to happen.

The puzzle has a number of other pieces that I can't recall offhand. But a day of internet research should prove fruitful.

[–]GridReXX5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This is why many Americans went to sleep with Trump ahead by a lot in their states but awoke to find that his lead had evaporated, erased by thousands of votes that mysteriously came in after midnight, uniformly and impossibly ALL for Biden. Actuarial analysis all but proves that these votes were fraudulent.

I remember the night of the election Pennsylvania Twitter was up all night. Some tweets exclaimed “WHY ARE THEY NOT COUNTING AT THIS VERY MOMENT???” Meanwhile it was 3 AM EST and they allowed the exhausted counters to go to bed. The GOPers on Twitter thought them sleeping was a conspiracy and that votes not counted before midnight were “fraudulent” which is another thing they made up.

The Biden last minute lead was not only real, it was expected since everyone knew the mail in ballots were going to lean heavily Democrat because Trump spent all year scaring his voters into not trusting and not using mail in ballots.

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it's hard to find a virgin woman who isn't religious.

you should know that, because when you think about it, there's really no reason to save yourself unless you have a purpose (i'm technically a virgin, but i'm also technically religious and have severe helicopter parents with expectations, which other people may not have).

otherwise, you learn to adapt with the times (and no, that's not force nor is it coercion, for a lot of people, especially men, sex feels good when it's consensual so you're getting pleasure as an outcome -- some girls also lose it later in life, after they realize holding out for marriage may not be realistic, this will probably be me). people nowadays aren't getting married quick enough, so if they actually want a relationship they'll likely have sex, unless their partner is super understanding and/or religious as well. and most average to pretty girls have been in a relationship (again, unless she is truly religious or focused on her studies or a homebody or an introvert, along these lines), so it's likely they've had sex. especially "straight, normie" women.

but if you do find a virgin, religious woman, she'll probably want a virgin, religious man.

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This kind of misses the point of objective levels. Which, yes, I know don't really exist, but they're useful abstractions for discussing attractiveness, which after all is what we do here.

We all know of cases in our personal lives of people dating out-of-their league, and people who could obviously "do better." That's why everyone knows what you mean when you say things like that. We all have an instinctual understanding that there is such a thing as Platonic leagues, which even though real life rarely works out that way, in theory it absolutely could. That's what we mean when we talk about leagues.

Saying "your league is who you can get" intentionally misses the point. We aren't talking about who you actually end up with, but who you could get with, based on our instincts about relative attractiveness.

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that doesn’t mean they are actually paying attention to women their age

That’s where you’re wrong. Do you think 90 year olds in the old folks home are going after 20 somethings? Come on now

There are a lot of reasons older men pursue older women:

Some of it is desire, and finding some older women attractive:
Some of it is lifestyle - shared cultural values, not wanting to be with someone so young it’s annoying/embarrassing, etc.
Some of it is practical - young women want weddings, and men who have alimony/child support are stupid to get married again (which will just increase those payments); they’re better suited to women their age.
Some of it is family related - men with daughters/nieces/close young female family members either feel gross being with girls their age OR don’t want to introduce one of their daughter’s peers into the family as a relationship
Some of it is career - despite what TRP thinks, men in certain white collar professions are expected to have an “appropriate” woman on their arm. Especially conservative old-boys-club industries

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If they said something along the lines of "The point is we're basically holding special olympics for women to make them feel good about themselves, and also watch them prance around in skin-tight outfits." Which is the comment you originally refered to when you said "I’ve never seen a competitive male athlete defend or naturally have an opinion like yours."

Any competitive athlete, pro or not, who says something like that unanonymously is very likely going to face social repercussions, so even if that is their true belief, they are heavily disincentivized from saying it.

But, since we are counting varsity atheletes, then as someone who was a varisty football player and wrestler, I can say I do believe something similar to what he said. He was being hyperbolic, but I do agree that women in nearly all (all?) sports are less athletic and less skillfull than their male peers and in most cases elite highschool boys of their respective sports.

The definition of athleticism is "the physical qualities that are characteristic of athletes, such as strength, fitness, and agility"

The definition of skill is: "the ability to do something well"

So yes, men are more athletic and more skilled. Theyre stronger, more fit and more agile, and they can do these things more well.

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Personally I agree with the spirit of abolish the police. I think a good first move would be to slash the sentences of all crimes by 2/3rds, reduce police funding and staffing by 80% make all drugs and prostitution legal, and get rid of the death penalty straight out of the gate. I also agree with Norway that the maximum sentence someone can initially get should be about 20 years with possible extensions and reevalutions if they are deemed to still be a threat to society.

I also think we should substantially raise the standard of living in jails/prisons, and they should only used as a last resort for violent criminals or ones with an extensive record of nonviolent crimes. In most other cases, court ordered therapy, community service or fines should suffice. I also think the main goal of incarceration should be rehabilitation. Criminality should be seen as something that occurs mostly as a result of the failure of society, a sickness that ought to be treated with as much compassion as possible.

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“Go to a traditional country”

...to get laid.

The problem is that American men aren’t traditionally masculine, and they aren’t equipped to handle traditionally feminine women who have lots of expectations

I’d say that the problem is more along the lines of Americans having limited experience with other cultures and thus believing stereotypes that aren’t true (Asian women are subservient and feminine). Asian women are some of the bossiest domineering pants-wearers on the globe.

BP guys are BP because traditional advice works for them. They’ve never had to search for other avenues to success.

Nah. We all start out BP because that’s how the dominant (and effeminate) culture raises us. The more experience we have with women the more RPed we become if we are curious and unafraid of being counter-cultural in pursuit of improving our lives with objective observation and analysis. BP guys stay that way because they are more OK with the crumbs they get from shite interactions with women than with challenging the prevalent world view even though it is so obviously false.

An analogy would be those who still believe that the Federal Reserve Banking system is a government entity which regulates the banking system in the interest of the US citizenry despite all the evidence to the contrary. We start out believing that because that’s what schools and the MSM propagandize, but the more experience one gains with monetary systems the more one is able to see through the blatant lies if one is curious and unafraid of discovering truth which runs counter to the mainstream narrative. Those who are afraid of having to rebuild their worldview in face of the truth will argue about how beneficial the Fed is until it has stripped them of everything they have produced.

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If a woman seeks “investment” with sex, it must follow that her desire is not actually for sexual intimacy with a given man, but rather that she is the objectifying party because she is the one seeking a return from her “investment” (the provision of sexual intimacy).

It can be the goal in and of itself, because sexual intimacy ensures bonding and future investment. It decreased the chances the guy will go out and cheat or fall in love with another woman.

If women restrict themselves to having sex purely for the sake of enjoying the sexual intimacy with a given man (ie not whoring themsleves) then they don’t have to worry about being objectified because they won’t be objectifying the other (or themsleves) by seeking “investment” and the associated expected returns.

That's not really what objectifying is. A woman enjoying being objectified does not negate that it is an objectification.

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Then sexual intimacy is not the goal in and of itself. Rather it is simply a means to achieve the actual goal, the efficient harvesting of utility (which is itself an objectification of the man).

You can want sex for itself to make your relationship/bond stronger.

This presumes that sexual intimacy is de facto objectification, which it is not. The objectification happens upon the expectation of a return.

I'm not presuming that at all. Objectification is not believing the individual has personal beliefs and desires. I'm not trying to say that some women don't also objectify men, only that the reverse is true more often since women are more pro-social/more solipsistic. Like, they know they have their own inner minds and workings, and project that on to other people, even if those other people don't have the exact same inner minds. Men, in general, seem to lack this way of thinking, they assume (or wish) that others are inert until he acts upon them. A common example I see on the sub a lot is that men don't believe women, or attractive women, want to or are able to learn skills without the reproductive need to do so.

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Your logic is faulty here. Remember, sex work is a business. Its also not necessarily the perfect analogy. IMO, online sex work is a lot like Streaming. It takes skills as an actor / being personable, a lot of time commitment, and luck to really make money. Its not all looks.

Sex work is acting, and not all actors/actresses are equally talented. Hit me up if you think a girl on onlyfans or a cam site is legitimately interested in you, I have some great real estate opportunities in Flordia you would be interested in. The point is, even outside of attraction, a better actress is going to be able to more effectively engage with people and keep them interested. I think Kristen Schaal is absolutely hilarious, for example, and I am more inclined to support her work than an actress who may be more conventionally attractive.
Building a business takes time. If you've ever watched a popular youtuber or streamer, or listened to how they got started, they will tell you that it is very important to have regular content. It takes a lot of time to cultivate interest, and you need to make sure you constantly have material that people are interested in. If you don't, or if you are inconsistent, they won't come back. So sex workers who dedicate more time to keeping a regular content schedule will do better, attractive or not.
Luck. Sometimes what you do just resonates, sometimes what you do won't. It takes a bit of luck to start trending in anything you do, and once you start trending it can snowball- because suddenly you are showing up at the top of the charts or recommended feeds. So someone who has a lucky break and starts trending will make a lot more money than even someone objectively better than them who is not trending or does not start trending.

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They seem to like me well enough (which was part of the issue).

Early in my career I was given all the women clients with whom others (including other women) had an especially hard time. It took me about 6 months, but once I figured out how to talk to them (ie listen to them bitch and moan about interpersonal shite and commiserate with them instead of actually being about the business of trading), I started killing it with them and did record amounts of business with them for my firm.

While I did enjoy my women clients, their behaviors as coworkers and managers made for exceptionally inefficient, tiresome, and less fun work environments fraught with more BS, tension, and risk.

I saw enough instances of good dudes getting taken out by BS (and women plotting to do so in bad faith) that it became evident that it’s not worth the risk, in addition to the less fun and efficient work environments.

Now that I can be as picky as I like, I’m also cautious about working with men who weren’t raised with fathers (or strong male role models) as well because they tend to behave more like women in the workplace.

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What is the argument for gay incest (among consenting adults) being any worse than regular gay sex? The "more likely to have fucked up offspring" component is eliminated. When you remove that, other than the innate visceral disgust, which I believe is subconsciously derived mostly from the "more likely to have fucked up offspring", what is the reason for why consenting gay adults should not engage in incest if there was no element of grooming involved either.

Futhermore, what is the reason incestual marriage and having children together as a heterosexual couple should be illegal? It is not illegal for two nonrelated adults with a genetic combination that will 100% result in a child being deformed to have children, so why should incest, which has a less chance than that in most instances, be illegal from a secular perspective?

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The types of incest that are most often illegal are parent/child, grandparent/grandchild, sibling, and half-sibling. And these are the relations which can most easily be abusive.

Right and that makes sense but it doesn't really explain why incest itself is illegal. If the instance of child grooming/sexual abuse is in itself an umbrella term that is sufficient in describing and acting against what is happening here what's the point of applying a law specifically against incest when the law already covers what is occurring?

If I'm following what OP is trying to say (and they can correct me if im wrong) it'd be analogous to making a law that covers incidents of domestic abuse, but then also making a separate law that would effectively make wide age gap relationships illegal because there is a high propensity of abuse within those relationships. So a person who is 34 can't legally enter a relationship with someone in their 50s.

You aren't going to change that irrational perception by explaining how benign a bug is.

That's fair

(As an aside when I woke up today I didn't think I'd be discussing the moral, legal, and social framework of incest, sometimes this sub can be interesting)

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It does still fit under child grooming, it's just that the justice system acknowledges that incestual child grooming is especially difficult to prove and may be a case where no one will advocate for the kid. If a teacher is grooming kids, there is a decent chance the parents will eventually find out and/or that the child will be taken out from their sphere of influence after a few years. If a parent is the abuser, it can be kept all in the family for the entirety of a child's life.

The anti-incest law is saying "we know that if a parent is grooming their own kid, we are vanishingly unlikely to ever catch them at the actual grooming and be able to prove it"

So having a law that only targets grooming specifically means that parents can often abuse their kids without consequence, and as a society we decided that was worse than disallowing consensual incest relations.

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I don't personally think two adult twins should be legally prevented from doing whatever they mutually consent to. But I think it's better to have the existing too-broad laws than no laws.

So I would support an amendment to existing laws such that incest is only illegal if the age gap is like 3+ years. I do think you can have abusive grooming going on with a fairly small age gap though if it starts young; there's a big difference between a twelve-year-old and a nine-year-old, and if grooming starts that early or earlier it can persist.

As an older sibling, I know I took advantage of my younger siblings in various (non-sexual) ways while we were growing up, with both of them going through hero-worship phases I could have exploited more than I did. (I did things like convince them to let me use their toys whenever I wanted or take over my chores.) I still have access to things like their SSNs if I had the malice to fuck them up whereas they actually don't have mine. And I'm only one and a half and three years older than my respective siblings.

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Black pill doesn't even allege that women are trash. Though some people manifest their own interpretation of the blackpill in such a way, it really just states the blindingly obvious fact that physical attractiveness is the most important factor in whether a woman will consider dating a guy

The issue is that most women, even those on this subreddit, with full anonymity assured, still continue to gaslight men on the issue, telling them that looks arent even that important, and that personality is what somehow attracts women

It's a deeply damaging mindset to push because it tells normal, good guys that the fact that women aren't interested isnt because of some genetic characteristics over which he has no control, but is instead some controllable characteristic of his, and that he is thus single via his own failures

[–]greym8iii3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Workaholiconew-1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Heh... neither ppd nor the black pil is exactly sexist you know? And we have lots of anger, a bad understanding of the world or extreme narcisism in here. They are just usually not in the top comments. We are here to debate after all, fallacies will get you nowhere.

You do not need to worry or care about what others think. Do your thing and live happily. You need to learn this maxim in here. Although I recommend getting a hidden account to discuss in PPD. We have some nasty ideologues in here. They are not above doxxing.

Most people here are in fact, purple pill and will not care what you think... only ideologues will really care about the person instead of the argument. And you should not consider them or their views.

I am here to welcome you to PPD. You are welcomed my friend. Feel free to ask any question, and go on debating. You may see the world in another lens.

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Men did figure out their shit what are you talking about. Men placed harsh penalties on behaving in an uncivilized manner for both men andwomen.

If men didn't have their shit together there would be chaos. Same with women, except for when women behave like animals it is more like a cancer than a stab wound, it kills society slowly via the creation of welfare queen single mothers who crap out impoverished criminals.

Lmfao at it being men who need to get their shit together also lmfao at the idea that women won't do a single thing to curb their bestial behavior until not a single instance of criminality exists from men. Way to prove you want no responsibility.

"Women as a while won't even think about behaving like civilized people as long as a single man doesn't. If one man acts uncivilized, all women will always."

Just lol.

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That's all just nonsense. Women weren't discriminated, they were a protected class. There is literally zero evidence any sizeable portion of men beat their wives. The ability to do something does not prove it happens.

Divorce has always existed it just needed to be a serious provable issue. This feminist nonsense that men were just beating their perfectly nice and reasonable wives for no reason just because they could is a victim fantasy of the highest order.

The world you describe never existed. Were there alcoholics, cheaters and abusers? Of course, no less or more than there are in modern times. Meaning a very small minority of men were any one of these things. 99% of marriages didn't have any of these problems to any serious degree.

I mean, just honestly use critical thinking. These men would go fight and die in war for their wives, who they have a vested interest in keeping happy because they are literally raising his children.

Why on earth would he want to abuse or otherwise upset his wife, who he would die for, by abusing her with zero provocation?

It literally makes zero sense.

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk{<Rope Bunny>}5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Special-Armadillo-990 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Abuse was why they fought for no-fault divorce

If you could prove abuse you could get a divorce at any time in history.

The government forced them

Who is the government? Oh right, men. So men decided women shouldn't have to face the horrors of war. When men DECIDED they would let women vote, they made the decision to leave them out of the draft. This is because they wanted to protect women.

Many if not most volunteered anyways. There was a strong message of "do your duty to protect your family." If men had wanted, women and children would have had to go to war too.

Men didn't want that. When men were in charge women were protected. When women are in charge they immediately shriek about how they owe men nothing and men should just fuck off.

Do you see the difference?

Yeah the government should let ME decide when a marital issue is "serious"

Then the government should let men decide when it's okay for them to use violence to get what they want.

Women have an advantage naturally in the dating world. It's not equal when it's completely unregulated. Women use their advantage with reckless abandon.

Why is it that when men were in charge, every woman got a man and everyone had a family, but when women get their way a third of men are involuntary celibate and single mothers are more common than children with both parents?

Because if you allow women to, they will burn down everything around them chasing tingles.

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So men decided women shouldn't have to face the horrors of war.

They would've been liabilities on the battlefield, given the whole "pregnancy" thing. And the whole "gushes blood a quarter of the time" thing.

Then the government should let men decide when it's okay for them to use violence to get what they want.

Ah, threats of violence. A PPD classic.

Women have an advantage naturally in the dating world

No, they have an advantage in the casual sex market. Not the relationship market.

Why is it that when men were in charge, every woman got a man

Women's freedom > sad penis

Because if you allow women to, they will burn down everything around them chasing tingles.

Evil women and their....sexual desires. Oh wait, I thought men had those too? And sometimes do very bad things to satisfy them?

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They would've been liabilities on the battlefield, given the whole "pregnancy" thing. And the whole "gushes blood a quarter of the time" thing.

They could have literally used them as human shields to soak up ammo from the enemies. They did not because they cared. I don't get why you're so obsessed with not acknowledging that.

Ah, threats of violence. A PPD classic.

Nobody threatened violence what are you talking about? I'm simply saying women felt not being able to use their biological advantage was discrimination, so why is it not discrimination for men to not be allowed to use their biological advantage.

Actually please answer with something logical.

No, they have an advantage in the casual sex market. Not the relationship market.

No, they have an advantage in both areas. A man who can't get sex is unlikely to be able to get a relationship.

Women's freedom > sad penis

Why do you keep insisting on these strange adhoms. Women weren't slaves because they had to choose one man and stick with him. Please explain how only being able to choose one guy and having to stick to your decision is slavery when men had the same situation?

Were men and women both slaves at the time? What does freedom mean in this context? You were free to choose a guy, 1 guy. Women were free. They just didn't have the ability to use their advantage recklessly.

Evil women and their....sexual desires.

Do you think single motherhood is a problem? It's the greatest single indicator of poverty and criminality in children. If you wanted to know if a child was in poverty or likely to be a criminal, and you had one question to ask, the best question you could ask is if they were the child of a single parent.

Do you think poverty ridden criminal children is a good and reasonable trade for women's sexual desires?

Oh wait, I thought men had those too? And sometimes do very bad things to satisfy them?

Yes which is why men set up a system where they held each other accountable and limited themselves to one woman, men strive to be better than their inner animal.

Women think not being able to behave like a monkey is discrimination and slavery. Unless they can indulge every base instinct they feel as if they are enslaved.

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, they have an advantage in both areas. A man who can't get sex is unlikely to be able to get a relationship.

Just cuz a woman can get sex doesn't mean she can get a genuine relationship with a loving boyfriend.

You were free to choose a guy, 1 guy. Women were free.

BECAUSE THEY HAD TO CHOOSE a guy or they'd starve to death. And there weren't enough good guys to go around, and some women got stuck with guys who were physically, sexually, financially abusive.

Do you think single motherhood is a problem? It's the greatest single indicator of poverty and criminality in children

Pretty sure poverty and criminality predates single motherhood. Correlation isn't causation. It's more likely that reckless, low-IQ people are more likely to get pregnant out of wedlock, and they pass those genes on to their kids. And if you really care, you should probably tell men to ejaculate responsibly. Don't attack the parent who did the right thing and stayed.

Women think not being able to behave like a monkey is discrimination and slavery

Not wanting to be one man's private sexual property is not acting like a monkey. Men made sure marital rape was legal well into the 1990s in some place in America, but tell me again how people shouldn't be allowed to "indulge every base instinct".

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

BECAUSE THEY HAD TO CHOOSE a guy or they'd starve to death.

Completely false widows didn't just starve to death lmfao.

And there weren't enough good guys to go around, and some women got stuck with guys who were physically, sexually, financially abusive.

A very very small amount of women yes. The vast majority were fine. Exploding the entire concept of marriage for a minority of the minority of people is ridiculous.

Pretty sure poverty and criminality predates single motherhood. Correlation isn't causation.

It doesn't matter though. Children of two parent homes are less criminal and impoverished. It really isn't relevant why, just that it's true.

It's more likely that reckless, low-IQ people are more likely to get pregnant out of wedlock, and they pass those genes on to their kids.

Which is why societally enforced monogamy is better for everyone, especially children.

And if you really care, you should probably tell men to ejaculate responsibly. Don't attack the parent who did the right thing and stayed.

Sigh. I'll just never understand women. You can choose any man you want, you choose one who doesn't give a fuck about you because you're the fifth girl he fucked that week, and yet you blame him when he impregnate you? So women have zero agency right?

Not wanting to be one man's private sexual property is not acting like a monkey.

Women weren't men's private sexual property. And by behaving like a monkey ill refer you to your last comment where you shirked any responsibility for choosing a good man on behalf of all women.

The guy doesn't give a fuck about you? Don't fuck him. Don't have his kids. Many men would be delighted to have a family. It's up to you to choose that man. Choosing a shitty man and then blaming everyone but yourself while shrieking that if anyone tries to stop them from behaving like morons is "enslaving" them is behaving like monkeys.

Men made sure marital rape was legal well into the 1990s in some place in America, but tell me again how people shouldn't be allowed to "indulge every base instinct".

Marital rape is funny because the only court case that anyone can find in relation to it is the case where a man attempted to use an outdated law and was denied and punished. You know how many outdated laws are in the books?

The legal right to do something isn't evidence it happens. I have the right to drink moldy milk, but I don't. Drinking moldy milk being legal isn't evidence that people everywhere were doing it.

Similarly marital rape being legal is not evidence that it ever occurred with any regularity. In fact while it was still technically legal men were prosecuted despite using that law as a defense.

And the only way marital rape COULD happen is if the wife wasn't willing to have sex with her husband who she literally signed an agreement to live in sickness or inhealth. All that law was, was a practically unused law designed to hold women to their word.

But again, any trying to hold women to their word or make them behave in a civilized manner is, unsurprisingly, labeled discrimination.

Funny how the woman could withold sex all she wanted and if he did anything to push the issue it's discrimination.

Meanwhile if he stopped working to support her? Also her being abused somehow. Rules for thee not not for me teehee,amiright?

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So you claim battered women are necessary for the greater good,

Never said that. Strawman. I did imply some amount of abuse is unavoidable and exploding an entire system to address abuse that was an extremely small minority and still exists to this day, is a ridiculous idea.

men have no control over their penis or ejaculations, and marital rape is actually kinda justified

Never said any of those things either. Men purposely created the system EXPLICITLY to control their baser urges. That's why killers rapists etc go to jail, because men agreed to be civilized for the good of everyone.

If they were like women they would have never decided that, women think being held to a civilized standard is abuse.

Why should only men be expected to be civilized.

Can't you see why women should have the right to avoid being married to someone with these beliefs?

First you completely misrepresented my points and second they did. They got to choose who they got married to. Widows and divorced people existed and they did just fine.

Do you not see how feminism has brainwashed you? Me saying women should be held to their word filtered through your brain as a justification for marital rape. The idea of women being held to their word is so foreign to you it literally causes a software crash and you can't even read what is being said. You leap to such rash conclusions because of how emotionally invested you are in women taking zero responsibility for anything they promised to do, like literally ever.

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're behaving as though I'm saying marital rape was good or justified when I was simply saying "if you agree to do something you should do it" again, men cared for their wives. 99.99999999% of men were not forcing their wives into sex. Let alone raping their wives because they didn't have sex the exact instance he demanded it.

I'm simply pointing out the idea behind the law was never "make women the sexual property of men" rather the spirit of it was "this law exists so women will perform the duties they agreed to"

Look at it this way, there's laws against deserting in the military.

Why?

Because they agreed to serve, the law exists not to punish those who desert so much as to provide incentive to keep your word.

Does that mean am justifying punishing people for fleeing for their lives? No because it's not my justification. I didn't set up the system. I'm just explaining the idea of it.

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The thing is, you do not choose life, nor you can change it. or you adapt to reality, or you will find yourself not able to live happily.

It is just reality. How my father once taught me, "Reality is, in fact, depressing, you should keep working in order to make a small part of it not so depressing" and emotions who stop your work, stop you from being able to achieve happiness.

Your feelings controlling you is bad for you and those around you. You are not a kid or an animal, you are an adult human being. you have no excuse for behaving irrationally nor anyone will ever think you do in modern times, you are a man.

Okay if you can feel sadness where none is affected, it is fair. I would just advise to not let thoughts about emotion dominate you. Or run the risk of being controlled by emotions when there is in fact something to be done.

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Also middle America might be the place on earth where people least take care of their appearance.

Sometimes I read something so wrong on so many levels, I become frozen with which part I shold address first.

Earth? ENTIRE FUCKING EARTH? Where we have uncontacted tribes in Amazon jungles? Somalia? We got Burma? We got Slums in India, Afghanistan? Turkmenistan? any fucking stan? You ever been to some nice places in South America?

Secondly, I can guarantee you that younger people in middle (or any) America obsess over their looks probably more than any other group of people anywhere ever.

Yes, you go to ShitCreekCity, Kansas, and you'll find a lot rednecky boomers in dirty coveralls driving their pick up trucks around. You'll also find their daughters that don't leave their house without 20 pounds of concealer on their face, and their sons who religiously lift and style their hair like its a new form of Christianity.

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[–]MasterTeacher12310 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

One of the worst advices we give to men who struggle to get girls is

“You need to stop focusing on dating and become a well rounded person. Take up other interests and eventually you can start dating”

Bro F that. If you suck at math, I’m not gonna tell you “don’t worry about math bro, just focus on English and Science”. Nah we need to figure this math thing out. This idea that you have to be some well rounded, well traveled renaissance man to be qualified to take a chick to Applebee’s is laughable. That’s what “ dating” is. The vast majority of people who are dating are extremely flawed human beings. People date... While going on their life journey of improving and exploring themsleves.

You have 15 year old boys with GFs right now, are they “well rounded”? Lol stop it.

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Because it is a fair give and take. And both are better off. One gets service, other gets resources.

The traditional man is overworked yes... but he gets something back worth it (if you mean traditional as in. 1900s marriage not 1980s).

As a man, if you can get good service and for it you need to work hard... to us it is a fair trade... that is comparably a dream come true to most men today, who are just as overworked as in those times (some even more) and get nothing much really in return from their wives with maybe some sex and children. I.e. At best most marriages today are a net zero with a female roommate which is not exactly beneficial nor negative... and at worst some bickering harpy which makes your like akin to torture and you cannot get rid off because of the legal system.

If I could get a loyal woman who would properly service me in the 2 hrs I can stay woken up at home per day. It would be fair to me.

But those are almost inexistant. And considering todays system. I would be risking myself way too much... aware of it... but I would do it anyway.

[–]NarniaFox2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It doesn't really seem to be fair.

A man is overworked, he doesn't have enough time to spend with his children and spouse, who he works for. He knows that if something happens to his job or to him, there's no one who could provide for his family. Overworking also deteriorates his health.

A woman doesn't have a job and knows that if something happens to her husband or if he just leaves her, she has no other source of income. She spends her time on children and domestic chores, she won't be able to find a good job and she also might have a lack of any qualifications.

Considering that my husband and I both work part-time and it's enough for two of us and our cats and we study and we have enough time for each other, an idea to divide things so one would be overworked and another anxious doesn't seem to be appealing at all. We don't have kids, yes, but if we decide to, we'd both take a leave and after the first 6-12 months would work part-time for a few years before a child could properly talk. Considering our field, it would be enough.

[–]Workaholiconew0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It is not up to you to answer what is fair or not to a man is it?

It seem fair to me. As it align to my own values and a woman's pretty well... Again, men value social interaction WAY less than women, and women value objective goods and services WAY less than men. For most of history, women would have other women to pass the time, visit and do stuff. Be social, and happy.

Marriage for most of history was a means to have a good give and take considering each gender's value system (on average) so they would cooperate and build good families/wealth/children.

I am willing to be overworked if I have some nice kids and good sex. And so are a good deal of men. If modern women were not a net negative on other features, we could cooperate quite easily.

If you are really one of the few and far between women who is willing to put some effort and not overwork her partner,but is not willing to take away the valuable things in the relationship, congrats you are a extreme rarity, but I wonder how you are so sure that is how he sees your relationship?

I mean... this kind of relationship is fine, and I would want it, but most women who say they are in such good relationships, usually do not understand how negative their mere presence is to everyone around them. I already talked to you about my mother, my grandmother and my aunts, they think as you, they think they are some major prize that does not overwork their husbands, when they deliver so little in return that most men consider them barely worth the effort, it at all. However, none ever talks about it. I and most men know why my grandpa, and uncles left... and why my father should leave... it does not mean we will ever say or express that.

[–]NarniaFox2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Of course, but some men here do claim that it's universally the best way to have a family - both to men and women.

Because we actually talk about it. He's very open about his feelings and he is better at communicating them than I'll ever be. And we talk a lot about family and relationships, because we both have a lack of good role models for romantic relationships specifically. I deeply appreciate my mother and everything she's given me, but she hasn't been dating anyone since she gave birth, so I had to discover myself what kind of relationships would work for me. My husband also has similar experience although he is from a full family.

Plus, measuring objectively just by numbers - we put similar amount of resources into our marriage. We have a shared budget, no bullish like "his money is ours, my money is mine".

And I do think that you have problems with your female relatives. It's not surprising though - kids often repeat family patterns, I have a friend whose sister is a copy of his dysfunctional mother and that's just depressing. But I've also talked about my family a lot - here my mother is the main provider, she helped all her sisters and she solely supports their mother. Not just helps occasionally, but pays for everything including yearly health resorts. Most my cousins are happily married and not that they're planning to get a divorce any time soon. They also tend to care about their husbands' health, because men here do avoid doctors till it isn't too late.

[–]Workaholiconew0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I mean. Extreme traditional marriage is a good give and take if you consider your average men and women. But I dont think traditional marriage where the men has to control their partner is not the only way. Just the best choice considering the most common denominator among women.

I see where these men are coming from. It is extremely difficult to find a good give and take where the woman has much choice... most women tend to choose taking from others rather than to actually trade... but I like to think women can control themselves. Most nowadays just chose not to. And thus require being controlled.

You seen to be an exception. And give me faith in finding a woman worth the effort.

My family is normal tho. It is not more or less dysfunctional than your average brazilian family. I mean... yea it has some problems, but not as much as your average western family. We are just a sincere brazilian family. With a bit more focus at best.

I talk a lot about my family because family is precious in Brazil. But the fact is. My fwbs, fbs, exes, cousins, bosses, coworkers, subordinates, heck, even my female clients from around the world, are not so different... cultures changes, environments change, but some aspects never change, I guess.

To expect differently, I guess is like expecting to find a man who is not interested in mechanical engineering or sex... unlikely to happen.

But I have faith that in some generations most women will learn to be responsible.

[–]NarniaFox2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Workaholiconew1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I mean, I don't know about women, but most men are not willing to provide for a whole family now... if what they consider "family" is today's definition. Including yours truly. I mean, we have no time machine, we live in modern day, we know how women are today... i.e. terrible. The chances of having a traditional relationship are minimal, and maintaining it, are infinitesimal, so we don't lose time daydreaming. But if I could get a time machine, or access to good traditional women, I would marry or have relationships without much problem, and so would most 20+ something men I know. (Not maybe the men where you live... I mean... the USSR was nasty, but anywhere else that is not africa nor was the USSR? maybe)

I mean, we both live in countries and regions of the planet where western men spend small fortunes and go into debt, in order to find a (slightly) more valuable (and traditional) wife in the countryside, with entire markets built around delivering this to them. Think about it. Men with a live of comfort are willing to go into debt, in order to go to the jungle, and taiga, just for a slightly more traditional partner, not even a fully one. If that is not proof of the value of a traditional relationship to men, I do not know what is.

(and before you say it, yes, our women are more "traditional" in the sense that they actually are willing to give back to their partners, it just happens that the way our women acknowledge it is as the duty of sole sexual providers).

To be honest I'm pretty surprised with your family. Here we, of course, have similar patterns, hell, my friend supports his good for nothing mother and sister (and all his friends keep telling him that he should get the hell out), but it isn't a norm at all. Leachers want to make it a norm, but most people do judge it and see it as parasitism.

I mean, aren't you coming from one of those smaller towns western men go to get more traditional women? I mean... If what you speak is true, I am willing to investigate myself. Cause even our most secluded villages, I've met so far, are irreparably "western". Just a less than in the big cities.

But I, and most men in here, lived most of my sexually active life in somewhat big cities. women are more "westernized" and "modern" and thus, extremely less valuable, and very much like that (AWALT). What you call parasitism, is our definition of "women-like behavior".

Get a travel agency up and get some western men where you live... and find a place where they and your women can meet... I am pretty sure that if you do that, they will come. And you will be well off. Maybe I may even buy the service myself.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yep, it can be a regional thing. To be fair here we didn't really have anything close to 50's traditional families. Men and women always worked, men just didn't have the load of "inside" domestic household chores like cleaning and cooking and they didn't have to anything to do with kids. It didn't really change with people starting leaving villages and living in flats. It's better now, but men do complain that women are stopping doing "their share". The share that historically was bigger.

Oh, no, men who "buy" foreign wives often just aren't successful with women from their own. They want someone easily impressed and I think lots of them get pretty frustrated with traditional-minded women pretty fast.

...I wouldn't say that my town is one of destinations for any "wife buyers". Maybe we're too far away for them, I don't know. Or maybe it's that a good share of population here is Asian and I guess most men who are interested in Russian brides look for typical Slavic beauty.

I wouldn't recommend you come here to look for a wife though. Foreigners do attract the worst kind and one just becomes a target for gold diggers when they start speaking foreign languages. If you could come here to work though and spend some time on vetting, then you're welcome.

Dude, if I did it, I'd get harassed by all angry men here for selling women abroad. But overall I'm not really comfortable with the idea. I think that any foreign dating business tend to attract the worst lot of both genders.

[–]Workaholiconew1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But the 50's traditional family had the women working tho.

Well, if you were rich enough, she could stay out of it, but truth be told, the "american dream family" always equated to a very rich family. But outside of the rich folk, women worked, it just happened to be mostly part time and exclusive to some areas.... think with me, even in medieval Europe women worked, mostly as a seasonal, or part time worker, "the women in the field", "the women's loom" and "churning butter" are documentations to that.

The difference then was that it was mostly in some areas, while not in others, funnily enough, the same areas women are mostly in today, namely, clothing, jewelry, cosmetics, part time labor, childcare, education, healthcare, etc... Back in the day there just happened to have protections from genders to certain areas, a man could not work in weaving, a woman could not work on security. If anything, your village most likely lives exactly as it did in the 50s, difference being women invaded the areas which were exclusive to men some decades ago. While the opposite is most likely not true, like what happened in Brazil's feudalistic cities.

Oh, no, men who "buy" foreign wives often just aren't successful with women from their own. They want someone easily impressed and I think lots of them get pretty frustrated with traditional-minded women pretty fast.

I mean, sure, they are not top 1% people, a top people, be it in value and/or wealth, does not need to finding any partner, they come to them, but the bottom ones, also lack the will to actually look for a partner in another country, or improve their lives in general, usually people who go to other countries as a last resort... I am sure you met some woman who has a western husband. They are sometimes PAINFULLY average... Average... where women want the top 1%

Don't believe me? enter in contact with your local service providers. Look at the assortment. Sure the first 5 or so will be top, but every single one after that one, will be.... average.... most incels are not exactly ugly or fat or antisocial, they are just average, but "Averagely wealthy" for an European, is "filthy rich" to you and me. Don't go expect getting excellence, but also don't expect trash. Expect mediocrity. If you can be reasonable and vet those "too good to be true", you are fine.

Also, None is selling none, by that metric, tinder is "selling" everyone in their platform. People want a service, and the companies provides it, that is about that. When I worked in translation, I would be translating lover's messages for some women who wanted a foreignborn guy, the fact that brazilian women are literally everywhere in the world... and living well/wealthy lives, even with the prejudice and their own mental illnesses, is a testament that they know how to use the market well. Both economic and sexual/romantic.

Maybe we're too far away for them, I don't know. Or maybe it's that a good share of population here is Asian and I guess most men who are interested in Russian brides look for typical Slavic beauty.

An untapped market, away from the cultures we are trying to avoid, and with a population of the most attractive type of women in existence (the mix between white and asian)...ARE YOU FUCKING MAD!? YOU ARE SITTING ON A PILE OF GOLD!

Women consider asians ugly because they are feminine... We are men... if a guy gets an semi-asian woman on a slavic country he is considered LUCKY. If there is something more attractive than a slavic beauty, is an asian one. bonus if it is mixed.

I wouldn't recommend you come here to look for a wife though. Foreigners do attract the worst kind and one just becomes a target for gold diggers when they start speaking foreign languages. If you could come here to work though and spend some time on vetting, then you're welcome.

And how is that any different from the norm? Truth be told, I don't believe you or any of your peers is really non gold diggers, just a bit less than the average, and that is good enough, (like, almost all women in brazil are gold diggers, but less than western women). To me, if they are willing to get back in services, the resources I invest, more than the urban Brazilian women, I am more than willing to invest. the only hassle here is learning yet ANOTHER language. Would there be any universities or business schools nearby? I am really interested in those "asian looking" woman you speak of.

Dude, if I did it, I'd get harassed by all angry men here for selling women abroad. But overall I'm not really comfortable with the idea. I think that any foreign dating business tend to attract the worst lot of both genders.

Unlikely, again, for all intents and purposes it is just a marriage or voyage company like any other, plus, it needs to be well insured in order to not be considered a crime.

Sure, there will be harassers, but if I were you, I would take living with some harassers on a mansion, rather than without harassment, but with a soul destroying job on a small apartment.

Try it out, try mediate between a local woman and an average dude in Belgium, I am sure you gonna be rich in no time.

Also, dating business attract the average of both genders. average men want a woman, and average women want the best of the best they can see in their countries... this business just connect these two.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I was talking speicifically about the US 50s, when it was expected from women to prioritize their wife and mother's role over everything else. Women were working, but it seems that at least in the US, lots of them were working part-time and there were highly gendered division of possible occupations. In Russia there wasn't that strict division and working part-time wasn't really an option for anyone.

Once again, we didn't have "American" 50s. Women worked hard and lots of them were working in plants and fields. Our lives did change greatly from that time, but mostly from the end of the Soviet Union, village extinction etc. In terms of gender roles things have changed as well, women tolerate less bullshit from men, that's great. Although it's still pretty shitty overall.

My point was mostly that men who get a foreign bride often do it as their last resort. Not because these foreign women are that great.

Hey, don't yell, I'm just used to the idea that most men seek a blond Slavic beauty here. We are pretty much the opposite of it.

The norm is that both men and women here are expected to work for their families. It's okay for a woman to take a maternity leave, but a lot of people don't really support the idea that a man should be a sole provider.

It's an interesting idea, thank again. I've never thought about opening any kind of business. We're trying to move from this place though.

[–]Workaholiconew1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And in america... in the 50s... women could work... and worked in various areas... feminism expanded the works they could take. And women were prioritizing child care and sex, because lets face it, it is their most important services. Men were willing to pay it expensive for those, so they did. Again, give and take.The man is forced to work into the things she valued, and so was she in the things he valued. Or did you think the people in the 50s really needed those enormous mansions full of shows of status and power when the guy was but a minor laborer?

My point was mostly that men who get a foreign bride often do it as their last resort. Not because these foreign women are that great.

What makes you think that a problem? They are not women. It is quite the leap to go elsewhere to find somebody better, most men know it is better where you and I live, but to them, it is a completely new, strange, dangerous, dificult and expensive endeavor... and they are correct. It should never be close to the first choice.

You could say they are being overly cautious for not choosing the clear winner here, and I agree, but to be fair, they only have hear says to go from.

And men are not women, word of mouth will not convince them unless it is accompanied by good evidence or from a source they trust. Plus, we are not hypergamous, to jump at the chance of something slightly better, without a reliable cost/risk analysis and some leeway first is crazy talk to us. Or more precisely "following your genitalia".

Hey, don't yell, I'm just used to the idea that most men seek a blond Slavic beauty here. We are pretty much the opposite of it.

I mean, many people desire what they don't have. Many Americans want a big butt green eyed brunette. But I don't see the point, because that's the "default" poor girl in the state I was raised in.

Plus, behavior, If what you said your women may be like chinese women, pretty in appearance, but a nightmare in behavior. I can understand their feelings.

but a lot of people don't really support the idea that a man should be a sole provider.

Let me guess, most of those who indeed have stay at home women are or extremely rich or extremely impulsive or extremely traditionally inclined... right?

I mean if one is wealthy enough to actually let a woman stay home, or willing to invest in most women's most valuable services, even if it means their own sacrifice... one will do exactly that.

You have to remember that you and I live in poor countries. Where one is almost guarantee to struggle to survive and sometimes even eat. It does not matter how much more we value your works as a mother and wife, most cannot afford it, nor be sincere. As there is always the excuse of "we need more money".

We are not stupid enough to not accept financial help when we need it, or heartless enough to force you to comply or know our true demands... but truth is, chances are, if we could we would prefer a nice give and take, and we demand a lot of women's services which they themselves think is beneath them.

It's an interesting idea, thank again. I've never thought about opening any kind of business. We're trying to move from this place though.

This model works everywhere there is women worth the cost/risk. If you not trying to go to the west or a big russian city, chances are, it will work with a certain degree of success, whenever you go.

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Studies have shown men have trouble maintaining close friendships, and that has detrimental effects. NPR's Rachel Martin talks to Boston Globe reporter Billy Baker about his book: We Need to Hang Out. (NPR)

Was listening to this segment on Morning Edition ten min ago. It's a quick segment - six minutes.

The author Billy Baker discusses his book. He inferred that he always felt women were better at maintaining friendships but he couldn't figure out "why." He then gives some examples about how women vs. men do friendship.

He wrote the book because, as a man, he actually was craving deeper platonic bonds and more frequent touchpoints with his male friends. He seems to have cracked the code that works for him.

A lot of it is about being intentional and not relying on "activity" to reach out to your friend. You don't need "to golf" to casually bring up to your friend that you and your wife are having problems and it's affecting you. You could just call. But I think that feels "too intimate" for a lot of men.

I think men who have "a spot" are better at maintaining friendships and not feeling like their friendships are shallow or surface level. Because "the spot" is a constant it doesn't make men feel "less masculine" by going there to chat (maintaining their sense of masculinity does seem to be a primary culprit imo).

My uncle has a backhouse that's essentially a clubhouse. There's a bar in there. A piano. Couches. Sometimes it turns into a de facto barbershop. Sometimes a random jam session. People (male and female friends of my uncle) go there to talk for hours, for days. They literally just be talking lmao. But. You can't say they feel isolated or lonely.

It's why frat houses and country clubs and gentleman's clubs will always and should always be a thing.

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[–]wub12342 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men are generally crap at reaching out to other men because, in a sense, it shows weakness to suggest that you need other men as friends. The only time it might happen is when there's a group, at which point it becomes more socially acceptable.

That's why the frat house, the golf club, the pub exist, because you can hang around with other men without having to take the risk of looking as if you want to be with another guy, and even potentially looking like a homosexual, which was a grave fear for guys of my generation. You're not seeing other men, you're at 'the club', 'the bar', 'the union', whatever it may be.

Furthermore, men are equally crap at arranging anything. I'm not quite sure why this is, but I would suggest that it's probably because they're accustomed to their mothers, and then girlfriends, and then wives, doing things for them.

When I was younger and had a group of male friends, nothing ever got done unless I arranged it, and it was rare for anyone to go out of their way for any reason. Eventually, I fucked them all off, as I reflected that they basically used me. If you asked them what they thought of me you would hear nothing but praise, compliments, and affection, but that never translated into anyone making any effort with me in any meaningful way. If I wanted to see my friends, I had to make the effort. In the end, I didn't want to make the effort any more.

[–]GridReXX3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's why the frat house, the golf club, the pub exist, because you can hang around with other men without having to take the risk of looking as if you want to be with another guy, and even potentially looking like a homosexual, which was a grave fear for guys of my generation. You're not seeing other men, you're at 'the club', 'the bar', 'the union', whatever it may be.

Fear of not being seen as masculine seems to be major part of it.

When I think about how I maintain my closest bonds it's via group chats and phone calls/group FT calls/etc.

It isn't seen as "gay" for chicks to FT/call each other and chat on the phone unpacking their whole life for hours on end. It's how we maintain closeness and relate to one another and also ensure we know what's going on in our friend's life. It's how we bond/show we care/support each other.

I think the act of talking for an extended amount of time on the phone with a male friend/ male family member makes many men feel "gay." Even if they want it and would like it, the feeling of "I feel soft" seems to take hold of him and ruin the vibes.

Because honestly past college/living near each other of your 20s, it's hard to "hang out" regularly. Sometimes all you have in the interim is texting/calling/FTing and women are magnitudes more likely to engage in that than men.

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[–]Workaholiconew1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think you are mistaking the causal relationship here buddy.

It is not that men need feel that they need an activity as an excuse to have social connection... But that the activity is what makes social connection worth the hassle.

Please consider the behaviorist approach.

Most men score extremely low in social interest, extrovertism and social enjoyment, in comparison to female counterparts, I.e. Men as a group and on average receive very little returns in social events... by well... just looking at the face of one another and talking... this would be considered a waste of useful time.

Thus I imagine that the 'activity' is there to be a compensation, a way to make the social interaction actually fun, actually interesting, because social interaction without the added benefit of other "activities" would normally be a waste of precious resources. I mean, I think it would be extremely hard to convince an adult man to just to drink, or to just socially interact without any other return, he could be using it to do something he consider more rewarding like playing some mobile game. but combining both alcohol and social interaction as rewards, some men may see this activity as worthwhile.

It would explain why so many men prefer without a doubt minor pleasures like shitty mobile games, and drinking alone, than actually being interested in social interaction for its own sake.

The "spot" you talk about, or "male club" usually have many ways to compensate their wasted resources beside social interaction right? Be it beer, tabaco, music, sexual potential, "women of the night", etc... It would explain way better the data we have here.

Men are not women, with exception of some extreme examples of social and extroverted men, most do not see social interaction as an activity worth investing their precious resources, onto itself. Or so I believe.

[–]GridReXX3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Workaholiconew1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I will write a letter to baker on a later date. But I do not care much about him really.

I see too that men don't bond like women do.

But in your explanation, it seemed that you agree in that the activity men perform in conjunction of the social interaction is but an excuse to socially interact, or as some sord of cope, instead of what it most likely is. The method in which makes social interaction worth its resource waste. Men have limited time, energy, money, etc. And unlike women, men rarely see much value in social interaction by itself... so, to have multiple reasons for a activity which usually has no much reason to be done seem the most logical.

This is actually part of a grand hypothesis of social interaction I have in my mind. Which explains not only my understandings of the red and black pills, But also the blue pill, and the psycho/sociology fields of study, using as basis the economic theory.

[–]GridReXX2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But in your explanation, it seemed you agree in that the activity mme perform in conjunction of the social interaction as an excuse to socially interact, or as some sord of cope, instead of what it most likely is.

I was suggesting that that option exists. If it actually makes most men “feel better” to engage that option, who knows.

Another option is doing what many men tend to do - let friendships/familial relations whither away and succumb to feelings of isolation and depression.

The ideal option for men is “hanging out” around an activity of sorts. But alas, that becomes harder as we age and move apart and start families / have relationships, have life stressors.

Women’s method of “calling and talking” to their friends/family still works when “life happens” (the bolded).

[–]Workaholiconew1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If I were to guess... to a good deal of western men, isolation and depressions seem preferable... and justifiably so.

From what I can see from the internet of anglophonic society... men rarely can expect to get fun in socially interacting to anyone. Particularly family and other men.

I mean, most people in the english speak world treat me (and all other men) like some blight... I would simply put prefer to frenchkiss a shotgun too if I was raised in such a world.

I mean, we need less social interaction, but we are still social animals. Maybe stop mistreating men who are not multimillionaires and actually consider their tastes and interests?

That is what we, the brazilians, do. We provide what others demand, in order to also get what we demand on another ocassion. You know... give or take?

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I just think if the question is "how attractive are you" and not "how attractive do you think you are TO WOMEN" than we have to accept that we are asking their opinion on themselves.

So it doesn't matter if women's opinions are more important, they are, I agree.

But what I'm saying is the question itself was designed to NOT place greater importance on sexual attraction of the opposite sex. I just don't think we'll agree.

Imo the point of the study was to see how different the two sexes see the world and each other. Drawing from that, that one sex is correct and the other is incorrect is just not something that the study warrants.

I agree that if you assume women's rating of men is correct than men overestimate their attractiveness.

But we both know women are spoiled for choice so their opinions aren't necessarily reflections of reality.

If I think every girl is a 0 am I right? Only to me. Which is to say, I'm not objectively right, just like the women in the study can't possibly be.

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Comparing bald men to women is complete nonsense. Over 50% of men have some form of hair loss at 50. There is no widespread "female pattern baldness" it effects a tiny proportion of women.

When you realize that male hormones and genetics, not aging and illness, is the reason for the vast majority of balding men, then saying their looksmatch is a baldwoman whose most likely reason for being bald is illness you can't see why it is upsetting some people?

Do you think the Rock's looksmatch is a bald woman? You don't deserve a man with hair because you have hair. The two aren't comparable. Its like me saying your looksmatch would be a guy with a vagina because you have a vagina.

No, male hormones dictate men have a penis, it also dictates that their hair may fall out just as estrogen ensures your hair stays put.

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The 50 statistic was just to show how common it is, not to illustrate you should use that as a metric.

With approximately 320 million people in the U.S., and at least 20% of them under the age of 30 in 2014, that means that over 1 in 5 American men are losing their hair, with men representing a higher percentage of hair loss victims. The likelihood that men suffer hair loss significantly increases with age

So 20% of men have balding by the time they are 30. 1 in 5. It's unlikely the hair loss started out of nowhere. So at least 20% of men are thinning in their 20s.

This is largely due to heredity and hormones, not any issue with health as balding is with women.

You're comparing apples to oranges is all im saying. A bald woman is multiples more likely to have an illness or outside factor (stress, unhealthy diet, lifestyle) than are men.

Another analogy would be saying that men with beards looksmatch is a woman with a beard.

No. Women naturally have less facial hair. Therefore that is not a reasonable statement.

The reason these women aren't balding isn't good genetics, it's the lack of testosterone. So the real issue is these women have baldness genes in them. They have a father or grandfather that was bald. They get with a guy have kids, their son is balding and women who have the same balding gene not being expressed thanks to their hormones act like eugenicisists and cut out bald men.

Then they have bald male kids.

If you wanted to say that women with the balding gene from their fathers should not reproduce or be selected as much as men with the same, I'm right there with you. That's an even headed statement.

But your contention that because you aren't in the 1% of women who hair loss effects, you are somehow above or too good for 1 in 5 or even 5 of 10 men is imo narcissistic. Women's hair loss cannot be compared to men's like that. Logically and mathematically you aren't entitled to hair just because you have it.

In the end your preferences are yours, and if you had simply said "I am not attracted to bald men" then I don't see why anyone would have a problem. Your reasoning that since you have hair you are too good for men without hair implies you think hair loss effects men and women equally and for the same reasons.

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.

I'm saying that hair loss from disease is possible. Some percentage of hair loss across genders is due to disease, stress, or unhealthy life style.

Pregnancy and menopause were not what I was referring to.

All I'm saying is that if you see a bald younger lad, its likely heredity. If you see a bald young woman, it's MORE likely that it's due to one of the three issues I've mentioned.

Keep in mind that there's far fewer young bald women than young bald men, and that I'm speaking of BALD not just thinning. Most women don't go completely bald from meno or prego.

It doesn't matter that Pregnancy and menopause are the "biggest" factors, because I'm not saying "the only reason women go bald is x" I'm saying "if you see a young bald woman it's more likely its from x"

X being disease stress or unhealthy life style.

I'm sorry if I'm not getting my point across correctly.

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This is interesting, and a lot of factors are at play.

I've always heard that the trend in the modern media-saturated day is towards mass killings, because the new breed homicidal maniacs typically have dreams of grandeur, bizarre political leanings, and of course grew up in an American culture that inadvertently lionized serial killers.

There's also the fact that lead was commonplace in paints and piping in this country for decades, and the resultant affects on brain development and the incidence of psychopathy may have contributed to 20th century America being the golden age of serial killers.

I don't doubt that we may see a rise in serial killers in this day and age, but I think that the existence of social media, phones, and helicopter parents tracking their kids whereabouts at all times, plus the new dynamic of the pandemic keeping people out of public places, make serial killing a much more difficult agenda to get away with than it used to be.

[–]SmurfESmurferson3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

All of that is why I was really interested in the article, because it seemed to fit what I’ve read before about the fallout from troops returning from WWII and the Vietnam War. And what they inflicted on their families either intentionally or not

It also didn’t fit what I’ve read, in that I read the same things you did re: mass killings overtaking serial killings

Tracing all of that through the fallout of 9/11 and how that affected families, the rise in domestic and child abuse in the pandemic, along with the psychological implications of people being isolated for a year

I was actually talking about similar themes at lunch today with some friends, and how so many couples are on the precipice of divorce. Drinking is out of control, and parents are losing control over their kids. One friend was showing us pics her best friend in another state sent her - of her husband passed out completely in their foyer, video of her 4 year old screaming at her to fuck off

Families are in a LOT of distress lately, that’s going to have some lasting consequences

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I was very much raised in an intellectual environment which held that secondary sources are nearly useless in the objective evaluation of events.

Still, I parse all news outlets and have found CNN, MSNBC, Fox, and particularly NPR and PBS to be the most egregiously inconsistent with objective evaluation of primary sources.

This became exceedingly clear to me during the financial crisis as I was at the very center of that fiasco, personally knew and had worked for many of the prominent figures involved in it, and had a detailed understanding of the businesses involved and causes of it. The reporting of it in mainstream news outlets was almost entirely fabricated propaganda to create a specific public attitude and had very little to do with discovery of the true underlying causes of the crisis. In fact, the mainstream public reporting was most frequently used to obscure the truth about that crisis.

[–][deleted]5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No one here is arguing that corporately owned media organizations peddled propaganda regarding the financial crisis. That said, I was alive then too, and I remember criticism of Wall Street bailouts and "too big to fail" rhetoric being quite mainstream, even on some of these networks. FoxNews platformed people like Glenns Greenwald and Beck who were openly critical of this elite bias; Chris Hedges, one of the fiercest critics of Wall Street, formerly worked at The New York Times (though they don't anymore, so I agree that it has gotten worse. This was the whole ethos behind Occupy.

I say this mostly because I recall you supporting election fraud rhetoric some months ago, presumably because you (understandably, I might add) hate the corporate democratic machine. But facts are facts, and the stop the steal movement, Q predictions, and general Trumpist media universe have been thoroughly debunked, even by the dear leader himself. You just appear to have the same propaganda-thirsty mindset as those you criticise, just from the opposite side of the spectrum.

[–]SeemedGood0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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At the end of that, does the conclusion exist that more fraud occurred in 2020 than in 2016?

While that’s not even a relevant conclusion, you can certainly reach one yourself after reviewing enough primary sources.

Has 2016 been as thoroughly scrutinized as 2020? Has any election?

Probably more thoroughly so, you will recall a few years of congressional investigation into election interference led by the Democrats.

but do you not believe that primary sources are also susceptible to bias?

Of course they are, but they are also significantly less able to opaquely transmit that bias en masse, because...

That they just loved that illiterate worthless whore so much that they're all willing to go to the level of affidavit?

Lying in a sworn affidavit is a federal crime and punishable whereas reading a script full of lies to an audience of 250k watching a CNN newscast is neither a crime nor punishable.

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Just because a court determines that a litigant doesn’t have standing in the court doesn’t have any bearing whatsoever on the merit of the case that potential litigant sought to bring.

Anyone familiar with legal processes understands that truth often remains entirely undiscovered via the legal process. And an objective observer of the primary documents regarding the Trump campaign cases would likely conclude that the truth as to the possibility of widespread election fraud remained undiscovered via the legal proceedings, largely because the bulk of the evidence was not heard by the courts.

You would already know all this (and have thought about it) had you consulted primary sources for any of your understanding of the topic at hand but you don’t because you didn’t. Rather you simply rolled with the narrative that you have been indoctrinated to believe because it was easy (it fit your pre-conceived biases which were also fabrications of your sources designed to influence your thinking).

[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Anyone familiar with legal processes understands that truth often remains entirely undiscovered via the legal process.

Anyone familiar with the legal process also understands that

A. Penalty of perjury doesn't prevent people from lying

B. The greater the perceived stakes/benefit of lying, the more likely the declarant is to lie

But your response there was "the legal process is sufficient"

Can't have it both ways.

Preconceived biases

Oh no doubt. Every election I've been alive for, including 2016, and including 2020, I've accepted the mainstream reported results without question.

If indeed the integrity of our election depends on worthless iliterates being heard, then I guess we are all screwed. I'm reasonably ok with that--no society lasts forever, and there's always a last generation holding the bag. So be it.

[–]SeemedGood1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]SeemedGood1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

All the people with the money and the power publicly expressed it isn't me, nor people who share my views or station in life. That's good enough for me 🤷‍♂️

All the more reason to believe that you have very limited capacity for sound and objective judgement.

Wanna "save the country from corruption and lies" I mean bro who the fuck is stopping you? I'll say that for the general masses on that side of belief, it will take a good bit more than whining like pussies about being fOrGotTen 🤣😢 to accomplish said goal

Corruption and lies are endemic to the human condition and thus are impossible to eliminate. What we can do, however, is reduce the power of governments to force people do things that they would not freely choose to do as a result of unfettered voluntary participation in a free market.

That way, the lies and corruption cannot be as easily or effectively partnered with the legal use of coercion to oppress people.

[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What we can do, however, is reduce the power of governments to force people do things that they would not freely choose to do as a result of unfettered voluntary participation in a free market.

That way, the lies and corruption cannot be as easily or effectively partnered with the legal use of coercion to oppress people.

I mean, this is a classic "whistleblower" problem, is it not? (Mostly) the people who call foul on corrupt systems are those who are discontent.

I'm prefectly happy with things exactly how they are (slight exaggeration, but certainly I don't have any desire to completely tear down Current System). People who have axes to grind (whether because the system as currently functioning left them out, or they had the unfortunate experience of having to see how the sausage is made and have the burden of a conscience making them feel bad about it)

Well, that's whose going to grind the axes.

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So, I've been looking into this video I saw addressing the whole "making men wait for sex is bad and mean and they won't want you if you do! Having sex early won't make him dislike you!" Etc etc

However, it was basically saying that due to vasopressin - the male bonding hormone - which is increased by arousal and decreased by ejaculation, it actually makes a man less likely to form an "emotional bond" with a woman if he fucks her rather than if they just go on a date. It can actually prevent him from developing said bond. Whereas not fucking him increases the duration of the hormone and thereby the time spent together will result in more "bonding."

Apparently this upsets liberal women and manosphere men alike.

It lines up with most of what I have heard and seen in adulthood, but I also can recall a few instances of boys in teenagerhood who would get one handjob and act like you're the love of their life. But that seems to die and flip to what the video is saying, after like the early 20s.

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I really don't think there's any man in the world that wouldn't make me feel icky bc the very concept is nasty. It's just... Innately repulsive.

And such a woman would make a very poor committed relationship partner for men who enjoy sex.

I could do it, but I would feel disgusted and it would probably make me less attracted to him than I was before, as tends to happen with sex anyway.

More evidence.

I think that's not uncommon for women. You like them, you fuck them, then all your desire and liking vanishes into thin air and you start disliking them. Whereas if you don't, and wait a long time, you don't stop liking them.

In my experience of women it’s certainly not common. At any rate, even if it were common I suspect most men would wish to avoid such women for committed relationships at all costs. Sounds like a setup for a shiteshow.

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Having sex “early” with a man =/= slut.

Having sex “late” with many men = slut.

Being a slut isn’t about how early a woman sleeps with a given man, it’s about how many men with whom she sleeps.

You could be a very attractive guy, and the very attractive girl you pulled could be making you wait until commitment so she knows you won't be using her for her body.

The fact that the woman is concerned about “being used” implies that the woman desires to engage in the sex act in the expectation of receiving some other utility from the man than the enjoyment of the sexual interaction with him. It implies that she is considering using herself to garner other utility from the man, that she is seeking to prostitute herself with him. And most of all, it confirms that she is not sexually attracted enough to him to engage in sexual intimacy with him purely for the enjoyment of the sexual intimacy with him. It makes it clear that she is not sexually attracted enough to him to sustain a healthy relationship.

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Women dont want to be treated like men.

First off, at the average height of 5'4 theyd be shit on and taken less seriously than they are already, we all know short men are treated like shit.

Weak men get shit on too, and we all know women are weaker than men.

So do men with high pitched girly voices.

So do feminine men.

Women would also get punched out far more, because theyll lose their special female protection from violence when they step out of line.

They also wouldnt have any of their complaints taken seriously.

They wouldnt be coddled by society.

Women dont want to be treated like men, they want to be treated like apex men. Most of those men having fought hard to be at the top. Women see the rewards but dont see any of the work that goes into it. They want the reward without the work.

Feel free to add on

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Perhaps this is how modern high-volume farming looks like. Where I grew up a climate-controlled cab would be an insane luxury. Also I imagine that you are milking cows by setting up the machine and not by manually pulling their tits, as barely anybody does this nowadays by hand (it's one of the worst tasks).

I'm not saying that women don't do any hard work in farm, but when it comes to heavy duty handling of cowshit and hay with pitchforks and shovels, or stuff like building fences, chopping wood, etc. it was something men were overwhelmingly expected to do. Women do a lot of hard labor at farm, I could give plenty of examples of women doing work that if a city feminist were to try it she would pray for patriarchy to come back (e.g. my grandma gave birth to my aunt and a few hours later she was in the field digging up potatoes)

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I don’t get offended when a woman I’m not into hits on me or asks me out. Ive been to bars,clubs, events where women who were nowhere close to my type would approach me and start conversation around flirting with me. It’s happened several times in my life and frankly I’m flattered. Someone wanting to suck my dick will never be a “bad” thing for me, plus I like talking to people generally.

Women though in many cases get personally offended when a dude they think is ugly tries to get with them, even if he’s respectful or in the right social environment so save that “creepy” shit for the birds lol. Like “omg he actually thinks he has a chance with me”, they take it like a personal shot. The best way I can describe it is how a company feels when someone applies for a position that they can’t measure up to.

Me, the only time I’ve ever gotten mad is when they come with the homophobia when I say no. “Oh you must be gay or something”. That’s when I usually turn up but that situation has only happened to me twice.

[–]SmurfESmurferson6 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

For you, a woman hitting on you is icing on the cake. It’s a great added bonus - because you approach, and therefore decide who you think is in your league for yourself. Any additional women hitting on you is a bonus, even if they’re trolls

For us, we don’t approach. It’s the men who approach us who tell us what our league is - so if a really low ranking guy wants to jump up in there, it’s an insult. We never would have approached him, and we don’t have control over the situation enough to prevent him from approaching. We just have to smile and let him shoot his shot, no matter how repulsive we find him

It’s not rational, but that’s the closest I can get to explaining it. It comes down to a perceived lack of control (which is false - obviously women can approach if they want - but is socially enforced)

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She wants to make it clear to those watching that this isn’t indicative of her actual value

Exactly. And also put him in his place

The lack of control is mostly irrelevant

That’s where you’re wrong. Women choose from men who present themselves to her; most women aren’t approaching more than maybe 3 to 5 percent of the time. Because of that, she has far less control over the men who consider her to be within their pool of matches

Because she can’t stop them from approaching her, the only recourse she has is to react

If women did the approaching, they would consider being approached by an ugly dude the same way men consider being approached by an ugly chick. “Aw isn’t that cute, look at that little guy swing and miss? Oh well, that’s an ego snack for me”

No one has any control in other people’s actions

It’s not about other people’s actions, but the proactive nature of male approaches (they choose who to approach) vs the reactive nature of women’s (they select from a pool that self-selected for her. She doesn’t select her pool of mates)

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A woman’s orgasm is not the result of a mechanical act or a series of mechanical acts

It is NOT independent of what you actually do, or what she actually does, or what a vibrator does, which is to physically stimulate.

A woman is not going to orgasm without the mechanical act. How aroused she is, definitely starts mental. But I don’t care how ‘hawt’ he is, Shes not going to come without stimulation to the erectile tissue which send the nerve signals to the brain to orgasm. Just like a man. And people who claim to have orgasms from anything else are delusional or very rare.

To add, you are Dishing it like there are orders of magnitude that are leading to the increase of orgasm regardless of his skill, her ease of orgasm, etc etc . A woman can get obsessed with a man that has less of the status or money or Looks or whatever then another man. Just because another man comes around that has more of those things does not break the physiological bond that woman has with the previous man. Sure there is hypergamy but it’s not a guarantee. If the woman feels that strongly and sexually aroused by a man, her orgasms w him will be the strongest too.

I literally have experienced this in my life multiple times being a swinger, and seen it amongst the women in that lifestyle too..... even if the dude I’m fucking with has increased status looks and money I was still obsessed with my boyfriend and nothing was going to change that, and after swinging we’d have some of our best sex for hours after the other couple was gone

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It's called......a metaphor

The rate of sexlessness amongst young men has significantly increased, while women's decreased slightly

Given that men have a strong propensity to lie and inflate their numbers, while women almost always reduce theirs, along with anecdotal evidence I've seen, means I'm convinced its worse than the data suggests

The only way this makes sense is if most women are sharing a small number of top tier men, while the majority aren't even looked upon as option

Any man can be good in bed if he develops some skill

Now who's being disingenuous, how is a man supposed to develop a skill in something that he never gets an opportunity to practice?

And is if being good at sex is going to be any help? Are women just going to take the word of these short unattractive guys that they're actually a total dynamo in bed?

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

In the universe I live in, I see unattractive men with girlfriends and wives all the time. Seems that not all unattractive men are "not even looked upon as a option."

The common counters to this are:

"but they can't get casual sex with attractive women." So what. I can't buy a Caribbean island. But I can save up money and take a Caribbean vacation. I can be bitter and claim it's unfair that the only way I can see the Caribbean is to save up and take a vacation there while other people get to own their own property there. How many people do you think would feel sorry for me?
"but those women aren't really attracted to those men." How do you know that? Because someone on Reddit told you that women are replused by 80% of men? You can honestly say you think none of those unattractive men who are in relationships are having good sex with their partners?

Yeah some people are not born attractive. That's too bad. But I'm not sure what men who obssess over this and how unfair it is want PPD to do about it. Short of giving you free plastic surgery, any solution we present seems to be met with extreme hostility and 100 excuses.

And surely if you're being genuine and objective, you can admit that it would seem then that these men don't really want to solve their problems.

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I think the men who come here and the women who come here have different motivations.

For the most part men come here because they aren't successful and want to vent and hear other men validate thier worldview that women are horrible and it isn't their fault.

For the most part women come here not because they aren't successful but because their identity as women is strong and they like arguing with and outsmarting men they see as misogynistic.

What seems to you like women bragging about how great their lives and their men are women see as defending themselves against personal attacks and being constantly called a liar because what they're saying doesn't confirm to red or black pill views.

Consequently successful men and unsuccessful women don't spend time here (with a handful of exceptions). Cause why would they?

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I mean women are extremely socially influenced/interested, thus, this kind of mentality make a bit of sense to men, who even the most social, cannot fully empathize with your average woman.

I and most men cannot understand how human thought, views, values, emotions or interactions is supposed to be affect so much to women. but we are able to see that it does affect you.

You know what we call a man who is so socially dependant? "Crazy". That is why we keep saying the joke, "women are crazy", because if we were to try to empathize, with you, we would always come to the conclusion that you are mad.

Don't misunderstand, we know women are not entirely social demons who will kill their husbands if society think they should (or at least we hope). But we know it is socially dependant, and this comic show this aspect in women's view.

Maybe it was made by a man, maybe it was made by a self aware woman, but it seems to reflect what a man would see if they were able to see women's thought. (hopefully, up to eleven).

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"As often as not" goes to both men and women. Men still initiate divorce too. But I think I should have written "more often than not". Personally I know no couple that got divorced just because of one's whims.

Do you want to make people to stay together when they don't want to? Do you think it would help their relationships? And would you like to stay with a partner who was with you just because they couldn't leave you?

Marriage is a promise that one should keep if other promises are kept. And one of them is "to love each other", but unfortunately feelings can go and vanish and not always because of one's wrongdoings. I think that people should try and make things work, but it doesn't always help. Overall, I see no reason to shame an initiator if they fell out of love and were honest about it.

And everyone shouldn't cheat, not just men, you know. It's not a standards that only men are hold responsible for.

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The significance of these points regards to the lack of love and general exploitative nature that women engage in relationships. The first point is found in regards to the fact that feminists have "successfully" seperated the idea of sex from the idea of love in order to make money, and so that they can use whatever man, in Whatever situation, in whatever way. Men are female instruments. This man for sex. This man for love. Instead of taking the risk of loving someone wholly.

This objectification comes after years of telling men not to objectify women.

The second point is also about the capitalist nature of relationships, it's not about love at all, it's about the accumulation of capital.

Sorry babes, but if you want me to be in love with you, y'all gonna have to stop killing the very thing that makes us fall in love: nazi calculations.

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I actually agree... but I also agree that...

To be able to fall in love(or deal with men) women today must accept the fact that they will almost never be considered to anything but sex, not because men are evil, but women themselves choose to not give anything else of value... and if they fail to maintain the sexual work in a relationship, they will be replaced, especially if they are mediocre in overall behavior.

Bad deal for anyone with even a tiny bit of logic.

I am fully aware I am probably not the best dick around... I mean, it is statistically impossible when you have as many partners as the average 20 something year old woman... but the fact is. Most women give nothing of much value but sex(and maybe birth some of our children), and men long ago stopped trying to get anything but sex... your value, be it social, romantic, sexual, and many times laboral... is predicated on sexual potential. Nothing more... nothing less. After all, thats all that most modern women are willing to give.

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Title	Weekly Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	8
Comments	2466
Date	January 25, 2021 9:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/l4xewa/weekly_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/weekly-community-chat-megathread.734633 https://theredarchive.com/post/734633

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