[Q4M] ... more specifically MGTOW. What was the breaking point? Was there a woman that caused it? Is there a woman that got away? Would you change your view for the one who got away?

SpaghettiFerret · 2022-01-10T08:01:47+00:00

I got sick of being treated like I was expendable, disposable and worthless, but not before trying to check-out twice when I was 18. Had a few "relationships" before I was 18. Lost my virginity when I was 16. I was pretty good looking in my teens and had no trouble getting attention or interest from girls but I could never keep their interest for very long. Always made me feel like I was boring or not exciting enough to keep anyone interested long enough for a LTR.

@ 17-18y/o I was in a relationship with a girl about a year younger than me. She'd recently come out of another LTR with her high school sweetheart (UK). At first she was very keen and down for foreplay (no sex, apart from once when she was really drunk and said "fuck me" but I was sober and said nah) but didn't seem keen on a relationship. Stupid, naïve, young me thought that if I could just be the best guy ever she'd want to. Kept seeing her, doing nice things for her and asking her if she'd fancy being my girlfriend (because that's romantic like in the movies, right?) and eventually she said yes.

Thought it was weird because she'd always initiate the touching/kissing in the bedroom but then start freaking-out (i.e. she abruptly turns over and says "good night" or runs away and hides in the bathroom) as soon as we started feeling each other up in the bedroom (she would initiate). She eventually told me she'd been raped at a party about a year ago by some guy from her high school. I thought I really liked her so I tried to be the good boyfriend and be supportive and super cautious in the bedroom, only doing stuff when she wanted it or would initiate.

Soon after I start getting messages on MSN Messenger (ancient technology haha) from a guy claiming to be her fucking **rapist** basically teasing me, saying he's going to get her again, saying I'm a pussy because I can't protect her etc. I blocked him but would then get emails from random email addresses instead. It got worse and he'd say he was stalking her, or had just chased her home. I told her to go to the Police and she said she had and there was nothing they could do but that she was sorting it out herself, so I didn't want to pressure her.

The emails got worse and pretty graphic. Once she was on the way to my student apartment and I got one from him saying he'd just gotten at her on the way to my place and that he'd ripped her jeans (a small hole up in the crotch) and raped her and that she enjoyed it. Sure enough when she got to my place she started making-out with me and I slid my hand down to check and there was the hole. The whole thing really fucked me up and made me very angry and anxious.

I eventually started to notice that I'd only ever get messages from him when she was online. I worked out the IP address from where the emails were coming from and I just had a "what if" feeling, so one night when I was at her house, after she had gone to bed, I searched for what her home IP address was. I saw that the IP addresses matched and figured out she had been playing me the entire time. I didn't sleep and went into overload. Next day I took a razor to my wrists cutting laterally down the radial artery on each wrist. I don't know if I wanted to do it, I just know that I wanted the pain and anxiety to stop. I ended up in hospital. She confessed that it was her sending the emails and messages pretending to be someone that had raped her. I didn't get any closure on *why* she did it but, being an 18 year old fuckwit, I stayed with her for another couple of months before she told me she didn't love me and I tried to O.D. on anti-depressants (I just ended up with a very bad headache and an overnight stay in the hospital).

The experience left me very untrusting of women and with some very nasty scars on each wrist but, worst of all, it really fucked up my mum, dad and brothers/sisters. When you're that far gone into a depressive state you can act irrationally selfish and the whole thing is something that, if I could, I would take back because I love my family more than anything and I made them suffer so much because of what I did to myself and what I let someone to do me.

Since then (I'm 31 y/o now) I recovered and haven't self-harmed since but I promised myself that I would not let a woman ever get me to that low point or treat me like that.

I've been in a few relationships since then and I've seen a lot of girls since then too. Only one other girl brought me close to being that low again since, but its a common theme with the women I see that they have little respect for me and seem that once they're past the honeymoon period or they've gotten what they want from me they then just want to fling me aside like garbage and move on to the next one.

It would make me feel absolutely fucking worthless, like I was the only one it was happening to, but it took me a while to realise I'm actually just fine, its really just the world that's fucked (lol, but hear me out). I'm 6'1, very caring, empathetic, compassionate, good job, decent physique, great beard (although bald/shaven head, but that's life) and great education. I'm still not perfect, but no one is, but that's the problem...

We get "perfection" shoved down our throats on social media all the time and people are fooled into thinking that 1) perfection exists and 2) its something we should all aspire for. People think they need to be perfect and they need partners that are perfect, but there is no such thing. Relationships are good but to make them last you have to be willing to put the work in and make sacrifices / compromises for your partners (and vice versa)... but now, when people find out their partner isn't as perfect as they thought, they abandon ship because their illusion has been shattered. Then its on to the next. Rinse and repeat. In our shitty "fast-food" society so many people now just want the best results, with as little effort spent, as quick as possible or else its not good enough. Its spilled-over to the dating scene too.

This is cheesy and cringe as fuck but the dying romantic inside of me just won't let me let it go. In 'Good Will Hunting' Robin William's character says that “Nobody is perfect. Everyone has their own little idiosyncrasies. Some people call those imperfections, but no, that’s the good stuff” when talking about how his wife would fart in bed and I think about that quote every time I hear someone tell me something like they ghosted their latest date because their date sneezed at dinner and a snot-rocket came out to their chin. Why deny yourself someone who could potentially be the love of your life over some meaningless shit like that?

Part of me, however much I resent it, is still holding-out for someone whose willing to accept me for my flaws. I'm just not as optimistic or hopeful as I once was about it and the older I get, the less hopeful I am because I feel like the problem gets worse and the rarer those types of people become.

But that's just my take on it.

JohnPettimore · 2022-01-10T00:50:35+00:00

Several years of an abusive marriage, followed by a divorce, during which she took my three young daughters and moved across the country. I was faced with the choice of either going to war legally, which would have done immense damage to my girls, or effectively handing them over. I chose the latter. It fucked me up. It fucked up my life. It ended up with me being homeless. It was the single most traumatic event of my life, and I did nothing wrong. Great provider, good father, loved my kids, tried to be a good husband. It didn't matter.

social_mule · 2022-01-10T01:04:35+00:00

I've changed my flair because I think the current one is hilarious but I'm mgtow and this is my story:

Late bloomer with decent interactions with girls throughout high school. In hindsight I realized a lot of girls were giving me IOIs but I either didn't pick up on it at the time or didn't have the confidence to act on it.

Graduated, joined the army and with the help of Uncle Sam and three wonderful drill sergeants I developed a newfound confidence. My sexual experience during my army days were a mixture of ONSs and a few casual short term monogamous relationships. The nature of the military requires a young soldier to spend a few years at one duty station followed by a few years at another so a serious long term relationship was out of the question. And that was fine by me as I figured marriage and family was something I could pursue once my enlistment ended.

Fast forward to civilian life (this is when my pill started turning red)

When I got out in my late 20s a lot of the guys I grew up with and who had gotten married were going through divorces. Every single divorce resulted in the mother getting full custody, child support and alimony with him being painted as the bad guy. But here's the thing that stuck with me...these were good guys. We grew up together. But everyone assumed, by default, that the kids belonged with the mother. Even the female members of these men's families indirectly took the side of the mothers and said the kids belonged with her. This was the single biggest eye opener. I never forgot that. When push comes to shove even the women in your family will side with other women over their sons, nephews and brothers when it comes to gender issues (unless she's an absolute indefensible degenerate).

In the meantime I used the GI bill, went to college and continued on with the ONSs and casual short term relationships. I didn't have time for anything serious as my studies were my main focus. Besides, I could get married and have kids after I graduated.

Then I graduated.

Got a job in my field, bought a nicer car than the jalopy I drove in college, rented a nicer apartment, started paying on the little bit of student loan debt I had accumulated and transitioned into the next phase of my life. Still dated off and on and had ONSs but again, nothing serious. I'm focusing on getting out of debt. Besides, I could get married and have kids when my finances were in order.

Over time I started listening to Dave Ramsey, got out of debt, built a house and got a few raises and promotions at work. Lo and behold this young boy who had grown up dirt poor was a debt free homeowner with a decent amount of disposable income. Edit: debt free except for my mortgage.

Now's the time to get married and have children.

Then I remembered what happened to my friends who got married and divorced. And I remembered the lack of support they got even from the women in their families. And I realized I was living a pretty good life already. I didn't have kids but I was certain all of my nieces and nephews considered me their favorite uncle. I didn't have a wife but I always had enough going for me to get sex on a somewhat consistent basis. I could get home cooked meals with food ninjas, crock pots and air fryers. I think I'm gonna ride this bachelorhood thing out.

People asked me why I didn't have a girlfriend or why I never got married and I told them I don't think I'm cut out for it. And the older folks in my family typically said "well, if you don't want to get married don't do it. It's not for everybody. It's hard work etc" Never any pressure from family. Other folks typically gave the predictable talking points (who hurt you, bla bla bla) which I ignored and on occasion the older married guys would tell me how lucky/smart I was when they were safely out of earshot from their wives.

And just to seal the deal I got a vasectomy just in case some lady I was intimate with "forgot" to take the pill.

And that's my story. I have tons of female friends, some with benefits some without benefits. The overwhelming majority of them without benefits if I'm being honest. I do not date and that's the response people get when they start asking questions. "I don't date" with no further explanation. They finally got the message and stopped trying to set me up with someone they think is perfect for me. And that's my life. I cook Thanksgiving dinner for my extended family every year, host crab boils and bbqs in my backyard, spoil the shit out of my nieces and nephews and invest 30% of my income toward my retirement. Easy peasy.

To answer your questions, the breaking point was seeing how the very good boys I grew up with were treated after their marriages failed.

I guess there were several women who caused it but not in the way you may think. It was the female family members who threw the men in their family under the bus while family court raked them over the coals.

There wasn't one who "got away".

I wouldn't change my point of view for anyone. There isn't one married man in my circle of associates who I'd trade places with but multiple married men have told me privately that they'd trade places with me. Men in "successful" marriages. That speaks volumes and tells me everything I need to know. I'm confident I made the correct choices.

Sorry for the novel.

markii300 · 2022-01-10T00:41:17+00:00

She was seeing her ex behind my back...I was putting in so much effort, getting her gifts, planning things, working on our relationship, her ex simply lifts a finger and she goes to his house for sex meanwhile she wants me to wait till marriage. Meanwhile I was driving 50km to her place maybe 4 times a week.

That broke me, especially after working on myself, reading dating books, exercising, becoming a more spiritual person etc.

The other relationships I got into was more of the same, they only cared about what I could provide, not who I am.

Now I've dedicated myself to become chad and not simp for anyone, if that makes me toxic, so be it. I'm only reflecting my surroundings and adapting to my environment.

TheOnlyDijaini · 2022-01-10T03:17:36+00:00

I'm not MGTOW but... I don't trust or make myself vulnerable anymore either. My ex told me she was going to visit her mother. She kept extending it. Told.me she was looking at the job market there. Then told me she got a job and would be a while longer making money for our family. The final straw for me was when she told me she was getting an apartment. I broke up with her there and then and went straight to an attorney. That's when I learned that she had set up residency for our daughter in her new state. I never stood a chance to fight for my daughter between trying to pay the new child support payments that came in a week after our breakup and attempting to pay for the house I had with her plus bills. Destroyed me mentally and financially for years after. I ended up selling off everything and becoming homeless just to make ends meet. I had a vasectomy as soon as I could. I try not to paint all females with the same brush, but my scars from that experience will always color any relationship I will ever have again.

manfrom-nantucket · 2022-01-09T22:58:01+00:00

No specific woman. Just an observation of the number of men destroyed in divorce and the absolute one sided shitshow marriage is. I was one of the lucky ones who decided to learn from the other guys mistake - the other guy in this case being my older brother. Watched a guy who was happily married get destroyed and become a shell of a person after his wife of 15 years cheated on him and then proceeded to threaten him that he would never see his girls again if he filed for divorce. I get that most women are not like this, but the simple fact that the ability exists to enable women to do this is all I needed to forego marriage and cohabitation for good. I do not regret it for a second.

hhhhhhikkmvjjhj · 2022-01-09T22:33:39+00:00

Feminist upbringing, abusive mom mostly. Mean female friends. An over correction of naivity on my part.

daniellederek · 2022-01-10T01:51:15+00:00

Marriage . At best a marriage is a negative free roll for men. At best he can break even. The only way he could win is to marry a woman with assets and earning power than his. This is a 0.00001% probability. If the love is truly there absolutely do not involve the government.

Hypergamy. How many stories have you heard where the woman initiated the end of a relationship and within days is moved in with the next guy? She already vetted him in bed, hooked and reeled him in and locked down improved resources, and if it doesn't work out the old guy is likely weak and wants another try anyway.

Invisibility, the old adage was 80% of men are below average. With modern new and improved social media and swipe dating its closer to 95% of men are off her radar unless she is in need of protection and resources.

There is no woman who got away. It's on men to understand when your turn is over. And yes I agree most single women would enjoy a stable medium to Long term relationship but would never lower their standards to a looks match or accept an economic match. Nor would they put genuine effort into having open communication with a local human as their screen just offers far too much validation for an actually capable go getting provider to compete with. Plus he would be boring anyway.....

DP8414 · 2022-01-10T11:39:43+00:00

My breaking point actually occurred over the last year - as in, since the beginning of 2021 through today. Here’s what happened:

In the summer of 2020, I started Looksmaxxing. There were events in my personal life that led to me making this decision, and I won’t go into detail what those were.

Anyway, I was pretty comprehensive:

First, I got laser eye surgery so that I wouldn’t have to wear glasses, which I’d been wearing since grade school and made me look dorky.

Then, I went to the dentist for the first time in 8 years to see if there was anything I could do about my underbite. Too little too late on that front, but I’d always covered up my underbite by deliberately holding my jaw low and not allowing myself to have Resting Bitch Face, so no problem there.

Finally, and most importantly, I lost weight. A ton of it. Went from 224 in August 2020 to 159 by June 2021. I did that through dieting alone. Severe calorie restriction, limited sugar intake, basically a combo of the Keto diet and the Paleo diet (I eat a ton of steak and salmon). My gut is still there without a shirt, but I look way better in pics. I look fit and lean, even though I still need to commit to hitting the gym in order to fix the gut.

Additionally, a friend told me to grow out my hair as thick as I can - think the typical Hollywood celebrity look - and to shave my hippie sideburns. I did all that plus grew some facial hair around my jaw, which I’d never done before. My hair never got as thick as Chris Pine’s or Ryan Reynolds, but it got thick enough to have a nice combover. My new facial hair around my chin also made me look much better

I was down to about 175 last February when I went on a trip to Scottsdale, Arizona. Spent one night in old town where all the college students hang out. Didn’t get any notices or once-overs. That was the first warning sign.

Then in July, I went on an extended week long trip to the West Coast. Visited Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. Also drove down the coast, which took me through beach cities like Santa Cruz. By this time, I was at my target weight, did my hair every day, had nice clothes that fit me, and was properly trimmed. Once again, zero notices or once-overs.

There was one time at a crosswalk where two attractive girls were approaching me, saw me, and deliberately jay walked to the other side. No, I didn’t say or do anything to cause that.

The lack of attention at all stops was so crushing that in the final two days, I sabotaged my own trip. I was supposed to spend those two days in San Diego (which I had been to before), and instead, I holed myself up in my motel and continued binge-watching the Timmiverse on HBO Max.

People can say what they will about confidence and personality, but the bottom line is that if a man is physically attractive, women notice him. Often, they approach him. If I had one wish from a genie, it would be to look attractive enough to get unsolicited attention from women. As it is, I’m effectively forced to go my own way, and cope with it.

RDelbson · 2022-01-10T17:07:59+00:00

My parents marriage was shitty. I'd see growing up my parents always fighting, arguing, and yelling. As I got older and understood what the fights were about, I noticed a pattern. My mom was incapable of sticking to deadlines. Incapable of feeding me on a regular basis, and then when she did, I'd eat burned food. I have some health problems now as an adult that stem from poor nutrition as a child. I saw how she was overly emotional and how my dad had to acquiesce to her, repeatedly.

Then I saw how they treated my sister. She was the "best child" even though she got F's in school and I got nothing below a B. It didn't matter that she (just barely) got into a state school while I worked hard and got accepted into two ivy league schools. She got a car as a gift. When I asked for a car, they smirked at me and said "you don't need a car." They set aside $10,000 for me when I turned 18 to put toward investments. That's really nice, but before my sister was 18, they already had in excess of $25,000 set aside for her.

So, growing up I saw both my Mom and my sister receive favorable treatment. Then, at age 17, I stumbled upon theredpill. The subreddit. And I read. I read, and I read, and I continued to read. By age 20, I had absorbed so much of it. I went on subreddits like AmITheAsshole and relationships and relationship_advice. I noticed a consistent theme. It was always the man's fault, never the woman's fault. This is true for literally anything and everything. Cheating, making a mistake at home, arguing with relatives, etc, the commenters would overwhelmingly blame the man for everything.

I would, on occassion, comment on these subreddits, and others. I'd state my views, trying to have a debate. Instead, I would be censored; my comments would be scrubbed, I would get permanently banned. People private messaged me to kill myself.

Don't get me started on society. Everybody wants women to be CEOs. They want women in tech. If you're a woman and you're applying to college for tech, your chances are 10x compared to that as a man. I have witnessed with my own eyes unqualified women get accepted into the same engineering programs I went through. Then they are lauded by society as "breaking barriers" and "shattering the glass ceiling." Literally every woman I've worked with fall into one of two categories "dumb, but hot" or "ugly, not entirely dumb." That's it. That motif has yet to be disproven.

I am done with women. They are evil. They do not deserve any respect. They do not deserve equal rights. We had it right in the twelfth century, and the men in charge failed the biggest shit test of all, giving women equal rights.

AtomicMGTOW · 2022-01-10T20:09:42+00:00

There wasn't a/one woman that caused 'it'. There were plenty of women over the years but I was about 40, just had a break up with one of 10 years. Of course I was made to feel like I was the one with the problem(s) and that she was running FROM me... (a maybe 1-2 months later she was moving to Europe with a guy from over twenty years ago. They were obviously connected before the split even if it was long distance - that's how we connected also).

So much other emotional and financial shit was going on at the time that I basically imploded. Then my company of 10 years announced it was closing so I was going to be out of a great job that was IT and paid great. Then my father and brother died 24 hours apart. I was a wreck.

As I've done before I started searching the net for things like "what do women want" and I really let myself 'fall into' believing/feeling/exploring that it was all pretty much my fault - this was necessary. To really grow we HAVE to drag the question all the way to the other end instead of trying to argue.

It was around that time I found TRP but that PUA stuff wasn't for me but understanding how and why it works led me to MGTOW and all of a sudden things started making sense.

Sure, I had some of the problems that she used against me. eg. drink too much. But then again, for a number of years we BOTH drank. We drank together. And I can't say we drank the same amount because she was a small female and I'm a large man, relatively speaking, we'd both get drunk. So why did it all of a sudden become a problem?

Well, thanks to MGTOW and the non-PUA red pill education I got I found out that women are totally fickle like that. Also that, even if something wasn't a problem, she will make it one when she's loosing/lost ineterest/attraction and needs an excuse to leave without feeling any accountability for themselves.

Then more stuff started making sense like monkey branching... Women almost never leave until they have another man lined up. If it's REALLY bad (like the guy really is hitting her) she'll go to her parents but that's still a sort of fall back and they don't stay long, they find another guy really quick.

Also, hypergamy... for whatever the reason the other man may seem 'better'. Maybe he's got more looks or money or status or maybe it's adventure/excitement (instead of being 'stuck' at home with HIM... gross).

Recent story. there was one that got away in 1991. She was 15 I was 16. Peers told her "he only wants one thing" and we broke up. Fast forward 26 years and there's a facebook request from her. I was WELL into my MGTOW by now so I was wicked skeptical. i looked at her profile and was absolutely devastated to see she had cancer. We started talking in a whirlwind, 3 days later i went and saw her at a chemo treatment, even met the husband. He knows damn well who I am as they started dating just a couple months after we broke up even though we'd never met. i said "I'm not trying to fuck your wife" - LIE!

2 days later she was over at my house. No sex first time. Another 2 days go by, now we're having a full blown affair. Within a month she moved out. Yeah, it's still cheating but it's not like she wanted to have her cake and eat it too (eg. just fuck me on the side).

My friend was like "DUDE, MGTOW!" and I knew it.. Hell i talked to her about it A LOT. but I/we JUST HAD to have this before she died. So yeah, I was the exciting 'rebel boyfriend' (her mom's words) and the one that got away. So we went on a wild adventure trying to stay alive (being broke for much of 4 years) but we built a campervan and made it to Florida and a couple more local camp-outs. She died last January and I just wrapped up the civil estate case her ex husband launched against me. He wanted to administrate the money she gave to the kids. He hated that I had control of it. He also wanted everything she got in the divorce (she finally got the money 16 days before she died) but it was in our joint account. Anyway... even when I look back at our amazing adventure and I feel so good that we got to have that... it's all still red pill to me. The only difference is she was married for over 20 years to one man and never cheated until me. Not like these hyper-hypergamists today that jump from one dick to another faster than the seasons change.

ALL women have hypergamy, but to different degrees. My babe was LOW in hypergamy and it took a terminal illness to change her view on life. But in the end, she monkey branched to a new man (me) when there was a major life upset and she wanted me for the adventure and to have the one that got away before she died.

By the time she died, she was calling out female behavior too. Ya see, most women aren't even aware of it. If something doesn't feel right, most modern are so impulsive and entitled they're gone... and there are rarely consequences because they take the kids so they get a 'pass' pretty much everywhere even if they just have to fuck another guy (usually a beta orbiter she's had on emergency reserve) until they get on their feet.

Anyone can say "men do these things too!" but we just don't have the means. So yeah, they'll say we're angry and jealous and that if we could do it, we would... but that's really not the case. Even if men have other interested women, we can't just leave and move in with her while she provides for us.... like CMON. He's still gotta have job/car/apartment. She doesn't want a hobo-sexual.

So I'm back to MGTOW now. I had my adventure. If it was anyone except her it wouldn't have happened. There's been a couple other women from WAYY back that have reached out to me since then and I'm so uninterested.... I'm not going to put in ANY effort more than a couple messages/chats. If they wanna fuck, ok, otherwise, see ya. But they don't see me as the 'i wanna fuck his brains out' guy like my wife did. These women want some quick attention. They want to scope me out and see if I'm branching material and they quickly decide to stay on their square. That might signal to me that I'm not good enough/better than their current man but oh well. We're all pretty average and similar anyway (at least men can accept this, women pretty much see this way too) but we certainly can't say most women are pretty average and pretty much the same... oh no... apparently they're all special snowflakes. And that ALSO serves to demonstrate red pill too me. Women are solipsistic. Women are confused when they find out that just because a lot of men would fuck you, doesn't mean she's HIGH SMV. lol So delusional.

Redpill/MGTOW men would rarely be able to point to ONE woman or instance that led them down this path. It takes way more than that because we were sold that Disney romance stuff and since were are on 4 generations of men raised by women, we pedestrianize them and were kept ignorant of their nature. That's why they want to censor us now. And that's why we have to keep up the fight. We have to let men know that there COULD be a very dark side to women so they can be prepared instead of being easy prey.

It's interesting how women don't like older men chasing younger women. Even if the girl is 21 they say "well, she's still naive" which is sort of saying "she just doesn't know how bad men are/can be" but if we try to spread the word about how evil women can be and the tactics they will employ... we're misogynists. They want and need to believe they are special and virtuous. They want us to believe it too. So they'll burn the books if they have to. Otherwise, they might actually have to change or end up having to truly be strong and independent. They don't want to do either. I don't think most are truly capable of it anyway. Women NEED the group/proxy agents more than men. That's why they need to perfect the art of reading people... of course they call it empathy. But really, it's more like the Terminator looking through his scanner that's telling him what's a threat and who they can exploit.

Anyway, that's enough for now.

Zcuzz · 2022-01-10T02:28:39+00:00

For me it was a woman I was in a LTR with who packed up and left while I was at work.

No note, no text. Nothing. I thought we had gotten robbed, but quickly realized only her things were missing. Left me on the hook for the rent for the rest of the lease.

I need to emphasize that this woman had been a firefighter. A self-proclaimed Christian. Someone who prided herself on duty and morality. If she was capable of this, any woman was.

This is after the woman I dated prior refrained from telling me she was married until after I was madly in love with her. And the one before her being into all this manipulative polyamorous behavior. Oh, and the one before that suggesting an open relationship, going forward with it, and absolutely losing her shit when I did.

And then there's the one that threw about 20 pairs of shoes at me for no reason at all other than to be a sadistic evil bitch.

Do I need to go on? There's more.

whrdiditgowrong · 2022-01-10T11:24:35+00:00

Grew up poor, essentially raised by a single mother because my father was an alcoholic who evertually drank himself to death, to this day I still don't know why she stuck with him, why she chose to give us a hellish, alienating and embarassing childhood. I also know I was an accident and she treated me like it a lot of the time, wasn't remotely encouraging or warm. I also have older sisters, each of which have kids with multiple men. So these early experiences began shaping my opinion, but growing up, joining the military and then putting work into becoming educated and moving away from where I came from I found the biggest red pill is having women desire you and realising how willing they are to debase and degrade themselves. How desperate they can be. There's only so much you can witness and experience before the thought of ever seriously being in a relationship becomes a fantasy.

Women with boyfriends coming onto you, women trying to make their ex jealous and start a fight, taking nothing more than a "come over" message for her to go get a train ran on her. Women lapping up getting spat on, pissed on, fucked in the ass by multiple men and whatever other form of degradation gets them off. I know what the woman will say as well, that I'm "porn sick"; this shit happens, I've experienced it, some of my friends even have self-made videos of the more extreme stuff. Then you have the other side, desperate women who'll let a guy do anything to them to try keep them, who will put up with abuse from men who clearly don't love them, I knew a guy who was hooking up with a girl once, she would buy him gifts tell him she loved him and so on even though he told her he only wanted sex and they'd never be serious. She started doing shit like sucking his dick while driving, letting him fuck her out in parks and shit. I simply cannot imagine ever having women like this as a wife or mother to my children. It's embarassing to think about. I grew up without love and validation and learned to be my own man because of it, I learned that I'm the only one that will ever truly love me and I genuinely cannot respect or find any sort of sympathy for people who are desperate and degrade themselves in search of it.

I'm sure some people will read this and conclude I'm a misogynist, but I dislike men just as much. My time in the military highlighted to me how weak men are, how desperate they are for leadership. I'm a misanthrope. Most people are like cattle and would happily suck the teat until their grave.

Riddick_B · 2022-01-10T13:25:59+00:00

After many relationships with vastly diverse women all ending with ‘dodging a bullet’ and people saying “you just picked the wrong one!” I started to think something was up, why am I always noticing these recurrent attitudes/behaviours in woman?

So I went looking for answers, and very quickly found mgtow and the penny dropped the pieces clicked into place, and it was like an epiphany. I had one more relationship and realised how very little woman had to offer me, then walked away. Never looked back, never been happier and more peaceful.

I look at the poor controlled guys in my life and just think “how have more people not noticed that they are slaves” ‘happy wife happy life’? Nope, no wife happy life!

In my experience If you’re not directly paying for a woman’s lifestyle and having your own suppressed, you (and I) are getting screwed by taxes to pay for single mothers nails, hair extensions, online subscriptions, cigarette addictions etc.

I don’t even need to go into the marriage/child custody laws/ family courts, the loaded gun society gives woman. The modern world is against men. You are a slave. Walk away.

JediGuitarist · 2022-01-10T22:22:05+00:00

I'm MGTOW.
I've seen it said further down in the comments that us M didn't GOOW, we were sent that way because nobody wants us. I can't speak for anyone else, but yeah, that's basically my situation.
There was no breaking point, no specific "eff this shit" moment that I can point to where I finally threw my hands in the air and WMOW. I guess it was just a creeping realization that I'm nearly fifty years old and I'm just so damn tired of all the nonsense.
No, seriously. I just can't be bothered.
I was married at one point, and I really hate to admit it, but one of the deciding factors in proposing to my ex-wife was acknowledging that she was the best I'd ever get. Probably the only I'd ever get, too. I'd been a struggling single before I met her and she was cute, smart, genuine, and seemed to really care about me. I could have done a lot worse. My family liked her, my friends liked her, her family liked me, I'd have been stupid to hold out for more.
I won't go into all of the reasons why it didn't work out, but six years later we just didn't really fit together anymore and eventually she told me she wanted a divorce. Yeah, there was some resentment; I felt like I'd been the one struggling the whole time to live up to her expectations and endlessly falling short, so I was glad to be free of that. The divorce itself was painless; I didn't contest anything, took all of our furniture and my belongings and moved west. Got a postcard from the court months later when it was final. That was that.
I guess if you could sum up my experiences in general, "not good enough" has always been the sounding refrain. No matter what kind of person I was, what I did, or how I treated people, it was never enough to be worth someone's (romantic) love. I will never get tired of the irony inherent in having dozens of friends who swear up and down that I'm an amazing wonderful guy who for some reason has just never found the right woman. It honestly can't just be bad luck.
So, barring a few years of Anger Phase (it's definitely a thing), I eventually got myself back on track and tried to figure out what the problem was. I knew I wasn't perfect, but... nothing worked.
Changing my wardrobe and dressing better only got me attention from gay men.
The endless, exhausting emotional auditing and therapy and discussions with friends about life and how to live it and how to be a better person didn't actually change anything other than jettisoning my old friend group for a new one... and while I'm much happier with the people I keep company with now, my romantic prospects are still zero. I endlessly meet married/attached women who assure me that I just haven't found the right woman yet and I should just be patient and they'd totally be into me if they weren't married, honest, but... well, fat lot of good that all does.
Getting new hobbies didn't appeal to anyone - and I don't mean stuff like playing WoW all day. I'm actually a musician and a photographer and very connected to the local scene. I know a lot of people. Some of my friends are legit famous in their own circles. Never resulted in so much as a phone number.
Travel, going to parties, networking... nothing. Singles events, nothing. OLD, nothing. Losing enough weight that people who haven't seen me in years comment on it unbidden when they see me again, nothing. Being a fun person to be around, nothing. I'm literally the guy women run up to and hug at shows for no reason. Singers go out of their way to greet me when they see me with my camera. You'd think I'd at least have been flirted with by a groupie by now, but no.
So that leaves OLD, which is its own special brand of hell. Endless swiping on anyone who even vaguely meets my not-super-picky criteria results in zero matches, ever, or the occasional bot or woman who connects just to feign interest over coffee before disappearing.
So yeah, I'm tired. Tired of all of the effort I'm expected to put in only to get nothing back. Tired of all of my friends telling me I'm amazing and that they love me but apparently none of it's ever romantic in spite of being told endless blue pill platitudes like "it's what's on the inside that counts". Tired of endlessly reinventing my image to no avail only to be told that the way I dress isn't good enough in spite of not dressing any worse than any of my attached friends. Tired of women complaining all men are broke losers but apparently a six-figure salary isn't worth writing home about, either. Tired of trying to schedule dates with women who don't talk, don't flirt, who've mentally checked out of the date before you even finish sitting down and then get told that somehow it's your fault for not being interesting enough. Men bad, women good. Over and over and over.
I'm just... done.
Was there a woman that caused it? No. Women caused it. I can't be such utter garbage that no one will look twice at me, but the only rare interest I get are from the obviously mentally ill. I'm not bitter in any sense, to head off those accusations; when I say "women caused it" what I mean is that no matter what I do, nobody finds me attractive, and relationships are a two-way street. So, I'm basically just finally acknowledging that I'm romantically useless. I'm apparently the best friend some of these women have ever had (they've even said so), but I guess the coke-head who still lives with his mom is more appealing for sex somehow. Although to be fair, that's an isolated case; most of my female friends are in relationships with good guys. The weird thing is, none of them are any better or worse than I am, so it's not a case of a loser among Chads; my good friend is literally a super model. I mean, dudes have pictures of her on their wall. You should see her boyfriend. He's a good guy, but he's also a gangly, over-pierced metalhead who reads comic books and carries shit around for a living. It's kind of hard not to look at that and sigh.
Is there a woman who got away? Not really. If my ex-wife called me up tomorrow and said "come home", I wouldn't. I'm over her, and I've done a lot of soul searching to figure out what I want in my next relationship that will never come.
Would I change my views? Well, since my views are that I'm not attractive and will never be anyone's boyfriend, obviously all it would take to change that view would be some hard evidence that I'm attractive and somebody wants me as their boyfriend. And it has to be more than just convenient lip-service from a woman already in a committed relationship, random flirting from an attention whore who'd flirt with a lamppost if she got bored, or the desperate attention of a stage-five clinger who sees me as a meal ticket.
I am currently in love with someone. I've been in love with her for years, but the odds are pretty good that she'll never reciprocate. I'm pretty sure she doesn't even know, honestly. It's a long story. We're friends, and I'm ok with that. But if she showed up on my doorstep tomorrow and said "JediGuitarist, I love you too", I'd welcome her in.
But if she doesn't? That's ok, too. Like I said, I've got my own life going on and all in all, it's pretty good. It's just a shame that it's not the kind of life that anyone else wants to share.

TheBookOfSeil · 2022-01-10T04:13:59+00:00

There’s never just one woman. It’s always multiple women doing the same things or responding the same way as if they were all in contact with each other and decided to do or say the same thing, except that they’ve likely never met before in their lives. Hence why guys are always referring to women as a herd or a hivemind.

The ones that got away were usually not known very well. Otherwise it might’ve been discovered eventually that they did the same or similar stuff to other men too, and you were one of the ones they liked well enough to treat with some transparency.

Edit: was also raised by textbook AWALT mother.

wowee- · 2022-01-10T13:10:26+00:00

there are multiple reasons that could cause one to become mgtow i wouldnt particularly point out to one and say its that one for most.

that being said, from what ive seen from reddit theres at least these 3

being burnt from a relationship, or being close to someone who got burnt (like, "why would i date someone if last time it failed after i invested so much in it")
being rejected so many times that you learn to live long enough without a relationship "why would i date, i never needed it"
the feeling of disposability that men can have not being adressed (i know women are valued for their ability to give children and are pretty much measured by it, but it feels like that measurement is much more innate to their existence when compared to men's having to "create" something to be valued) can cause men to feel like they're being liked for something other than themselves which kills the "want" for relationships pretty quickly.

for me it was something of 1+3, even realizing that 3 is a bit unfair of an ask

AggroWeasel · 2022-01-10T19:14:36+00:00

There’s not one thing in particular that happened. I don’t even consider myself MGTOW.

I have yet to find a compelling reason to get married. I’ve asked people, point blank, why a man should get married, and they can’t argue their point logically.

Also, having to see the same woman naked for a long time sounds like hell to me. That alone is enough reason never to get married.

Quick_Ad_3367 · 2022-01-11T01:35:58+00:00

Well, I guess its something that you see in many other commments but for me it was a combo of factors.

First, it was the bad heartbreaks that ended every single relationship Ive had plus the heartbreaks from rejections. The issue here is that when I feel love, I am 100 percent in it, so for me to actually act, it means that I really love the woman. This is a big, big mistake.

Second, I noticed that my experiences with women around me have generally been quite negative both in real life and online. Its either random passive aggressiveness, hostility, manipulation. The issue is that its really random. If it was an answer to something I did, Ok, thats fine, but it isnt. Of course, there have been women that were super kind, considerate etc. but they change.

Third, I think that society does not care about me. Im just not considered as a human being. I get the same vibes even from my parents so I promptly slowly distance myself from them. Same thing with my 'friends' who are always too busy when I need their help while I literally abandon whatever Im doing to always be there for them.

So all of these pointed me to something that we can call MGTOW, although I go my own way from humanity as a whole. I just do not consider myself human at this point.

Zerofication · 2022-01-09T22:33:20+00:00

The breaking point is that nowadays we have solid statistics proving that: A. Good women are rare, B. Most men lose more than what they get, C. The loss grows exponentially as the involvement with a woman gets longer.

yabbobay · 2022-01-10T00:14:09+00:00

[permanently deleted]

AlienFix · 2022-01-10T04:11:07+00:00

Yeah it was my personal experience but that was after learning about a lot of same experiences that other men in my path of life has had and thinking that my story would be different, it ended up being the same as others, now that I learned from my mistake i can only watch and give an advice to the other ones that are still thinking that there is a chance.

pokemin49 · 2022-01-10T07:04:49+00:00

Im MGTOW adjacent. Women hold very little value to me. At a certain point it no longer made sense to me. It seemed so important when I was very young because of all the hype, but it's just a trick of the light. There's nothing there. All that bullshit, when porn is better.

Fit-Faithlessness149 · 2022-01-10T10:55:06+00:00

Going through divorce court and having to fight to have custody of my children other than every other weekend.

LotBuilder · 2022-01-10T00:14:17+00:00

I’m not full on MGTOW because I have sugar babies but for me it was divorce. I got ripped. She did very little and received a seven figure settlement and $6500/mo for 8 years.. The funny thing is that even after all that I have more disposable income than ever. That shows you what she spent before. Then after I separated I was immediately targeted by a bunch of women that were very similar to my ex. Women that offered very little and demanded a lot. They just were not worth the time. I will never get remarried or allow a woman to move in with me. Many have tried. Right now I spend about 6 hours a week on women and the relationships go exactly how I want them to. Few headaches. My married friends spend 6 hours a day appeasing their wives like I used to.

lulll · 2022-01-09T23:10:24+00:00

most guys who call themselves mgtow aren't mgtow because they didn't have any choice in it, they got sent their own way by women who don't want them. the mgtow thing is some make believe they have to delude themselves into believing to deal with the fact they had and have no control over that portion of their life. i'm one of those i guess and most of the unsuccessful guys here are too. how did we get like this? thats what happens when women treat you like shit and you don't want to be a simp. how do you fix it? i heard taking showers was the answer, im at 50 showers a day currently

Complete-Temporary-6 · 2022-01-10T01:30:44+00:00

I'm sort of writing a book on this. Long story short is that men are viewed as disposable by society and women, and that can end up with a lot of trauma

ahandtoyourdarknessx · 2022-01-09T23:51:23+00:00

Im not MGTOW because I’m too addicted to ass to be able to walk away from women entirely, plus I don’t think women are really that bad even though I do think they suck in a lot of ways, and I found a way to get them to like me consistently so I can get laid easily despite not being that attractive.

If I had the will power to do it and if I didn’t learn how to attract women then I’d get it.

For example I have so many instances of girls I liked not liking me back then them having the audacity to ask if my friend who was 6’3 was single. This guy was a pedophile as well, he would date really young girls like one girl was 12 and he asked her out the week she turned 13 despite him being 17 and turning 18. He dated her for a couple months until she had sex with him then a couple weeks later he broke up with her.

There was one girl I liked who said she didn’t feel anything for me, she said that I shouldn’t put myself out there so much, but then she met that friend I mentioned and was interested in him.

There was another friend of ours right, and he was dating a girl for months and she never slept with him, meanwhile our tall friend was getting laid left and right.

So it’s just this general confusion, I say it always felt like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I just didn’t know how to make the pieces fit.

Maybe it’s just the fact that I got older so girls stopped being so shallow, but because of those experiences no woman is worth my commitment because even though they may have changed, I don’t believe they did. I believe they saw their shallowness only let them be used.

The funny or ironic part is that I’ll do the same exact thing to them, I’ll play the boyfriend role meanwhile I’m pulling the same shit on multiple women all while still in a real relationship.

I don’t care, they made their bed so they have to lie in it, it isn’t my fault if they get hurt emotionally because they rejected me without any problems when I was younger, if they fall for me that is on them and the truth is they don’t like me, they like the way I made them feel. That isn’t my problem. I’m having fun and so are they, if it ends badly then it isn’t my responsibility because they made their own choices.

But yeah, if I never learned how to attract women then I could see the appeal of being MGTOW because like I’ve said before, I don’t think women are capable of love, they’re only capable of lust

Jakeybaby125 · 2022-01-09T23:48:58+00:00

Learning about divorce courts and countless stories of men who get destroyed in them. I'd only change my view if the divorce laws change

Gerpstarg · 2022-01-10T13:29:08+00:00

Had lots of girls in highschool, started studying more in college, dating was over. After that, learned so much stuff and compared myself to my friends who were dating instead of studying. Honestly, i would rather be studying because making dope things that other people live and appreciate, having thousands of likes under a mod you made for a game and having people begging for more is more satisfying that wiping some girls tears when shes got another mental breakdown yet again.

Most girls are just emotional and energetic sinks, they drain your enegry, time, emotions, resources and as the time goes by, you move nowhere in life because all you do is engage in endless drama with your gf, yet the sex you get is nowhere close to pornhub stuff. And then you look back and you realise that you have accomplished nothing in life, you havent done anything cool while other people have moved ahead in their skills.

This is why I go my own way, because most girls are very basic, boring and not very smart to be honest, all they have to offer is sex and their emotional instability, it just feels like raising a little child, sorry i dont need this pain in the ass. Literally every friend i know whos got a gf calls me to drink and then starts crying about his relationships, because its always dirt and mess. If girls could just have sex with your, then do their own stuff and swallow all their emotional shit as men do, then yeah it would have been fine, but in reality all her problems become mine and I have to bare her bitching on top of my own issues.

Now i know there will be "well not all girls are like this, im different" well no you are not, all girls are raised with the entire society looking down their mouth and ready to wipe their tears and give a pat on the back as soon as she starts crying. And since you are her boyfriend, you are expected to be her tear sponge, endure her mood swings and mental breakdowns every 2 seconds. Men dont do this crap because they know no one gives a fuck - if i have a mental breakdonw and start attention whoring on insta, people wont give me support and likes, they will ignore and get disgusted because they dont want to see weak men. Dudes endure this shit alone, on their own against their demons. If I dont get this support, I wont give it to some bitch too, bitch if you are depressed, here is a rope and a soap, thats what I got told the last time I was upset.

kyjolski · 2022-01-09T23:16:01+00:00

Not sure if this counts as flirting with MGTOW or not, but I stopped 'taking initiative' with women as most of them usually understand it - bending myself backwards for a chance of attention.

Why?

1) Most women are not worth it.

2) Women usually don't bring as much to the table as I do, or do not have a compatible approach to life (my lifestyle is not mainstream).

3) It's a waste of time and is psychologically draining.

4) The meaningful LTRs in my life didn't require me to do it, I've met the women organically IRL and they were also involved in pursuing me on an equal footing.

I am open to a relationship if a compatible persons comes along and we like each other sufficiently, but I am done with 'pursuing'. The work vs reward ratio is simply not worth it, there are way more enriching activities in life.

hailsaitama · 2022-01-09T22:47:25+00:00

Breaking of naïveté. Multiple occasions of being cheated on, gaslit, lied to, and watching it happen to all of my friends, family, (all male) Stats, and noticing obvious patterns in behavior that rarely ever changed regardless of a woman’s background, hobbies, career, etc. I’m considered “conventionally attractive” and harbor no Ill will, I just lost interest in marriage and children. I view things for what they are now

heyitsjeape · 2022-01-09T22:46:23+00:00

I don’t buy that most single women are open to something. If they were, I’d have a lot more demand.

old_wise_man_ · 2022-01-09T23:00:11+00:00

Realized my standards are near Impossible for a woman to achieve. Till this day only One woman fufilled all my standards, my ex. Unfortunately due to different life goals we slipt. And thats it. To be honest, while having a good ( empathis on good) relationship is awesome, the chances of finding One are nearly zero. Its true i could spend my life looking for that unicorn but i only have One life so may as well enjoy it and care about relationships last.

logiauser · 2022-01-10T00:55:18+00:00

Not MGTOW but I had a fiancé who would fly into fits of rage and emotions. It suddenly occurred that this woman could one day take my hard work and children away on a whim. Scared me into looking up this stuff.

No legal entanglements is the only solution I see.

Dangerous_Air_7031 · 2022-01-10T02:24:15+00:00

Hey! A WGTOW here!

And nothing seriously triggered this path for me. I just don’t want to be in a relationship.

gunbusterxl · 2022-01-10T11:47:31+00:00

It's to protect my mental health.

Either MGTOW or slowly get to the point where I end up checking out. I've had a few friends who offed themselves over a woman, and I've already had a few close calls myself. I refuse to go out that way, so I tend to keep women at arms length.

RPslimjim · 2022-01-10T05:49:27+00:00

With out the girl who dumped me right before covid, I’d still be a beta bucks. I thank her. From that I found coach Corey Wayne and AMS.

vivvienne · 2022-01-10T10:54:33+00:00

My husband kinda falls in line with it, but not because he read anything about it. His philosophies just happen to be quite similar.

He never had a problem with dating but he always broke it off pretty quick because he found each woman boring (his words). He wanted a meaningful relationship but wondered if he could bear settling down with someone he wasn't excited about and decided he'd rather die alone than do that. Then we met.

Everything he told me I thought was common sense, like being a whole person you bring to the table. People often are lead to believe they need someone to complete them and it's a sentiment that's often twisted into creating codependent relationships.

BluetoothMcGee · 2022-01-10T13:27:25+00:00

Apologies in advance for the long read.

The breaking point for me was when I politely turned down a co-worker's advances for professional reasons (nothing good comes out of dating your co-workers). In turn, she turned the entire company against me, to the point that she successfully got me fired under dubious circumstances (it didn't help that her mom is a manager at that company as well).

Which brings me to my answer to your next question. I've told this before in other subs, but at the job I got after this one, some new girl had the hots for me because she saw me as a suitable replacement for her dying husband. What's worse is she had the entire company go along with her, with my managers playing matchmaker and almost every guy (unmarried or otherwise, hourly or salaried) having a grudge against me because they were also competing for the girl (she had over $200K from her late husband's pension, IOW she's "pretty" and loaded, a perfect 10 for these dolts).

The bad memories of my past experience still fresh in my mind, I resorted to ignoring her and being unreasonably (but professionally) mean to her, not because I was playing hard to get, but because I legit wanted her to get away from me. This time, I was able to get away with it because I was too useful to the company (which was eventually to my detriment, but that's another story). After 6 months, the girl finally gave up and started seeing an ex-employee, who coincidentally (or maybe intentionally) was basically my doppelganger in terms of appearance, a real life manifestation of the "replacement goldfish" trope.

Even then, I kept on mistreating her because I wasn't sure if she got over me or not. This went on until the pandemic started, which, due to the resulting stress from being considered "essential workers", I decided to bury the hatchet and treat her better. I was expecting her to be mean to me in retaliation for the shit I put her through, but surprisingly she's cool with it and treated me as if I was her best friend. That's when I realized that she was the one who I let get away.

I still wouldn't change my view because she's an exception that proves the current norm (and I'm unsure if she's genuine about it or it's all an act), but in the back of my mind I sometimes imagined that had circumstances been different and I knew a lot less about the fucked up society we lived in, I would be together with her now.

These two factors aren't the only reasons why I went my own way, however. The fact that modern society looks down upon men who refuse to marry for logical reasons, being treated as nothing more than a utility with the abnormality of having sentience, seeing my parents hating (and are separated from) each other (pretty much a divorce in all but name), as well as several other instances of unwanted female attention in my personal life (e.g. being catcalled while doing your job, women intentionally disregarding social distancing rules just to get my attention, the constant fear that I will be accused of rape for the crime of existing while male with no recourse on my part) also influenced my decision.

pubgmisc · 2022-01-09T22:24:36+00:00

This is the 'who hurt him ' question, the most common one lol. It's not that. They just figured the juice is not worth the squeeze. Guy game is leveling up to a point where they are visible to women (since men arent born with value with things men want in women, thus takes time), to even start dating, but they don't want a hoe who is combative feminist etc.. (whereas girl game is keeping the guy post-sex, since born with value and has things men want)

John_Oakman · 2022-01-09T22:36:04+00:00

Most MGTOW are in fact LVMs being banished by society, so I guess the breaking point is when society ordains their banishment from respectable society...

KingWhoCared86 · 2022-01-09T22:48:04+00:00

For me it was just the best coping mechanism I had. I’m generally someone with low self esteem and never succeeded in asking a girl out. Only relationships I had were when the girl ask me out and like an idiot I jumped into the opportunity.

Yes it’s the traditional got hurt bad by a few of my ex’s. Both cheated on me repeatedly and tried so hard to convince me this was a positive aspect of the relationship. Eventually things just wore me down with the death of my father coinciding with their cheating that I just got more angry than I even had and walked away from my last ex. And despite her best attempts to repair things I told her off for the last time.

Now I’m not sure if I count as mgtow or incel or whatever on these sites. I don’t have expectations from women. In fact a large portion of my social circle are women. Albeit married older women so it’s probably easier to be friendly with them since I don’t see them in any romantic sense. Generally thought I’d meet a nerdy girl one day to settle down with but seems unlikely anymore.

Mostly I just work two jobs to avoid thinking about anything relationship wise. I tend to get annoyed with vague terms like improve yourself and work on your investments. Like for me it seems like mgtow is a bunch of guys who’ve been hurt by women and concoct revenge fantasies about their jilted ex’s lives turning to shit and begging to come back while they’ve suddenly become multimillionaires with a harem of supermodels. Oddly enough my last ex did end up in a physically and sexually abusive relationship later on and I managed to learn ASL. So I guess I did improve myself a little and something awful happened to my ex. But despite what she did to me I don’t feel any satisfaction in what happened to her.

I generally just use people’s tragic stories with failed relationships to condition myself to avoid any idea of asking girls out now. I don’t know why. It’s like I crave a relationship but refuse to let myself have one. So any internet shrinks out there. Good luck making any sense out of that.

ogsimpology · 2022-01-09T22:22:19+00:00

Idk, but if I ever turned MGTOW it would be if my wife cheated on me. If this angel cheats on me, I literally can never trust any woman on this planet anymore.

I'd go full MGTOW and reject women as humans.

Luckily that won't happen because the mgtow position is simply wrong

irongolemrocks · 2022-01-10T03:38:13+00:00

Hmm, grew up with only a mom i love, but i got into incel culture during highschool. It definitely stuck on me, but i was able to open my eyes to the reality of women/dating and that someone like me would never be able to find the unicorn i was looking for. Also im in the military now so i dont have any time for women anytime soon.

AbbreviationsHot1200 · 2022-01-10T21:34:53+00:00

I still date women, but I'll never marry.

It was seeing the effects of divorce on my friends that did it.

EnteFetz · 2022-01-10T05:01:40+00:00

I sympathise with MGTOW because of the realisation that all women behave a certain way and because marriage is rigged against men.

It is absolutely NOT about a specific individual woman that hurt us. I am not surprised that a woman would not understand MGTOW and get this totally wrong impression, but that is absolutely not what MGTOW is about

TakeTheVaccine · 2022-01-10T00:38:05+00:00

Let them avoid women, that just means more for us.

lingualistic · 2022-01-10T02:23:14+00:00

MGTOW doesn't fuckin exist either. If you think a single one of them wouldn't tie themselves in knots & bend over backwards if "Stacy" expressed interest you're confused. They're just all "WELL FINE, I DIDN'T WANT YOU ANYWAY" like literal children.

ProjectEngPro · 2022-01-10T07:10:32+00:00

Every man should be MGTOW. Only add a woman to your life if she adds value.

AutoModerator · 2022-01-09T22:03:40+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Physical-Pie748 · 2022-01-10T00:53:23+00:00

i think no fault divorce/divorce laws/child support child custody laws in the last 30 years where divorce rate increased and more men saw what happened to divorced men/fathers

AutoModerator · 2022-01-10T05:08:42+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

S0mnariumx · 2022-01-10T14:27:13+00:00

I lean that way right now but I'm convincing myself I'm just taking a break from heartbreak. Anyway I was in a multiyear abusive relationship. She'd beat on me when angry, call me retarded, didn't work and delegated most of the housework to me. I tried to off myself from all the stress. Once she tried cutting me off from my family that was it, I ran away and lived with a friend. I've tried with a couple women I really liked since then and it didn't go all that well. Not sure if I'll ever feel mentally well enough for a relationship again.

tomsafrver · 2022-01-26T13:13:51+00:00

Part 2.

You might look at my upbringing and experiences in relationship’s and feel badly for me, don’t! from my perspective I'm the lucky one as it opened my eyes a lot earlier than I think it does with most men. Men who had great mothers mostly go into the world thinking women are these special creatures and only learn the hard truth once they are married and have kids. I do not envy these guys as I remember how badly I felt even with the little investment I had put into women, so I can only imagine how hard it would be once you have gone all in and she decides to make a porn video with six other guys (the horror stories I have heard).

To the young men out there, educate yourself and understand the truth about women. Do not listen to what most people say as humans have a bias towards the feminine and they will automatically try to paint women in a positive light no matter what. Read, observe and understand human nature, your life will be a lot easier for it. Never NEVER impregnate a women you are not 1000% sure is a quality women with morals and class. I had a close call with my first gf and to this day I still get chills down my spine wondering what would have happend if it turned out she was pregnant, I would have had ties to her my whole life. Freedom above all.

P.S> My mother died 5 years ago. My family asked me a couple weeks later if i was happy she was dead (which should tell you how horrible our relashionship was) my response was "not happy but relieved" i was also informed by my father that my mother cheated on him in the past and he done nothing cause he wanted to keep the marriage together for us kids, yet they were constantly fighting which in my perspective is far worse. I told him i wasn't surprised when i heard that she cheated. What i did not tell him is that i had lost almost all respect for him given how he let her walk all over him and us kids. I believe he is the weak men you hear about in the old saying "Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” He sits down to pee now which i think is appropriate. I see this weak behaviour in a lot of men today. Hard times are coming.

tomsafrver · 2022-01-26T15:43:23+00:00

Part 1.

I think the internet has changed EVERYTHING! Or at least sped it up drastically. I red pilled myself 15 years ago without knowing any of this knowledge and most men i spoke to about it back then simply refused to acknowledge it. Now with the internet, you can become a fly on a wall by watching female dating channels and can see what their motivation is concerning men and relationships. Add red pill channels to the mix and it is now undeniable and staring men directly in their face. You have no choice but to accept it.

I believe the reason i was able to see through the bs and red pill myself was due to my upbringing. My father was a typical blue pill labourer and had the "Traditional" family set up. A stay at home wife and kids. Due to his work being so strenuous he eventually damaged his back (something he still deals with today) and was off work for 12 months. This obviously caused financial issues as he was not making an income and so he asked/begged my mother to go out and find work until he recovered, she refused. Later in life (teenage years) I picked up how little value my mother actually contributed to the household.

She would complain about everything, do stuff begrudgingly and constantly remind my father of all the options she has back in the day, options she did not have any more as she was older now and had let herself go or she would have bailed for something better, which made her unbelievably resentful. She actually had a photo of an old boyfriend from the states she use to pull out every now and then to pine over.

As I got older, this sort of behaviour worsened and eventually she became a recluse. Didn't want to go do the shopping as she felt like people were talking about her, couldn't travel on the highways since this scared her, so those responsibilities fell onto my shoulders as soon as I got my drivers. I would take and fetch my father to and from work (since he did not drive either) go do the shopping, take the dogs to the vet etc., etc. all while trying to study and start making a living. Obviously I picked up on the fact that my older sister was not being held to the same responsibilities and was Scott free to do what she likes, whenever she likes and would constantly question why it all fell on my shoulders, this was my clue into male disposability, my time was less valuable than hers.

Eventually after listening to my father complain about how he only feels like a paycheck, watching the heartbreak he would go through when my mother would give him the cold shoulder due to her imagined slights i had had enough and started holding her accountable and defending him. You can imagine my surprise when my father defended her and constantly made excuses for her poor behaviour (the red pill about men). I was shocked! why, WHY? Is he defending her? She has done NOTHING to support or help him or her own damn kids and I was infuriated. The damage was done and the mistake was mine as I should have said nothing or at least done it once I was out of the house but alas life is a learning experience. She went on to use my father against me as a proxy, whispering in his ear and poisoning his mind. Eventually I had had enough and moved far away so there was no reason they could call and ask for lifts etc.

At the time I thought this behaviour only applied to my mother until I started dating. I still had a blue pill mind-set but probably not as blue pill as most young men at the time, however I made similar mistakes like most young guys do today, I just think I realized a lot quicker than most guys as I had already started to connect some dots in my upbringing.

My first GF was at 19. She was older than me and more sexually experienced than I was, which was not a stretch since i was a virgin at that time but she was experienced if you catch my drift. In fact it was her that initiated the first sexual encounter. Looking back, she had every red flag imaginable but I had zero clue what a red flag even was back then. Her parents were divorced and both her father and mother had multiple partners while we were in a “relationship”, her brother was a delinquent who trashed her car one night in the parking lot while we were inside drinking and later I walked in on him having a chat with her while she was in the bath which apparently was a regular occurrence, wtf?

I followed the blue pill narrative and would do anything for her. She got in an accident and I raced over there to save her (feeling like a hero). I would constantly want to spend time and money on her rather than hanging out with my friends because I was “In-love” with her, though my feeling today is I was hooked on poon given this was my first sexual experience. Eventually I picked up that she was using sex as a tool, a reward for good behaviour and none as punishment if she was unhappy with me which basically made me feel like the sex wasn't important to her and the "relashionship" was similar to that of a prostitute and her john. So I corrected my behaviour and only initiated when things were good or when she seemd keen and i did not attempt when she seemed unhappy.

The relationship ended due to me cheating on her (kissing another girl) and telling her about it due to me feeling guilty (VERY BLUE PILL). She went on to sleep with several of my friends / co-workers (bro’s before hoes is another blue pill lie) in order to “Teach me a lesson” though I discovered later that she had already cheated on me long before my confession. Instinctively I already knew this was going on, as she would dress very provocatively for work, flirt with other guys and play games. When I questioned her on why that was, her response was that I was insecure and needed to be more confident.

Couple of weeks later it was as if a fog had lifted and I could clearly see how my behaviour was not achieving the result I wanted in the relationship and even understood how it came across as unattractive and needy. I made adjustments again in my behaviour, went back into the dating market and dated several girls. These relationships were a revelation to say the least and ultimately red-pilled me as I started to notice female hypergamy and how they were monkey branching from me to a new guy once something better came along. This killed my confidence and angered me something fierce, so I started avoiding women and dating all together. Eventually friends and other girls would imply that I must be gay due to me not chasing women or avoiding casual sexual interactions, as women would approach me due to my lack of interest in them or rather what they seen as a mysterious guy. I even had a women strip down and jump on top of me while I was in bed and sleeping. I literally had to fight her off me (she was surprisingly strong lmao) and put her down gently…..but why? Are you gay? No, I am just the type of guy who prefers to feel comfortable around a woman before I can sleep with her. I was learning that men are not allowed to turn down sex. They need to be ready to go at any time and if you are not attracted to a specific female then there is something wrong with you not her.

Eventually after all this BS with both GF’s and friends I walked away from it all – MGTOW! before it ever existed (in my mind), spent 10 years on my own focusing on building my skills and confidence up. I was depressed and anxiety ridden for a lot of that time cause I felt alone in my experience with women and humans in general – I was ultimately saying what Elliot Alderson said in Mr robot “Fuck Society”

Improving my skill set turned out to be one of the best thing I could have done as today (15 years later) I have an amazing job, make excellent money, have my own place, own car, debt free and money in the bank. The other positive thing I done for myself was spending those years alone as it gave me a super power, it taught me how to thrive on my own and be comfortable with my own company, a skill I don’t think many people have today and in fact I think it’s the reason most people tolerate this sort of bs in relationship’s, cause they are afraid to be alone.

I would still date and do on occasion meet a woman and have a short fling here and there but I do not chase and nothing serious has ever transpired. I do not hate women and do believe there are good women in the world but ultimately think they are few and far between and the same case with men. In fact it has always been women who has been more honest with me in regards to this subject. They obviously only admit it one on one and told me straight to my face that they would deny it if I brought it up while around other women, sisterhood uber alles. The first book I read that explained this all to me in detail was written by a woman named Esther Vilar – The manipulated man

I am not religious and i will never marry and do not care if the laws are made fairer to men or not. When I meet a women who is interested in me and the subject comes up about marriage I am completely transparent, NO MARRIAGE EVER, even if it means losing an opportunity for sex or a relationship. Do not think you are going to convince me with the power of pussy, I will not sway. I'm open to a committed relationship with the right woman but the second deal breaker red flags start appearing, I'll end things right away.

ThatgodHermes · 2022-01-09T23:53:16+00:00

Not MGTOW, but I am choosing to be single atm for a personal growth period.

Men who are neck beards tend to grow into “MGTOW” and generally, when it’s post divorce the men just give up.

My uncle is a “red piller” because his brother was wiped clean in his divorce.

The kicker? My other uncle LET it happen. He complained about low custody, complained about alimony and having to leave the house but did FUCK ALL to change it. We live in a 50/50 state, did he get a lawyer? No. Did he go to court to fight the ridiculous alimony with his proof? No.

My dad and I figure weak men will continue to be weak- MGTOW men just continue to blame the “system” like the SJWs they hate.

Comments