Women have a tendency to victimize themselves by framing past relationships that didn't work out as involving "manipulation" or "abuse"

strokesfan1998 · 2023-11-25T20:35:09+00:00

The second one. When i was in high school i had a really good friend who was my age who went to a different school. She was 15-17 routinely getting with guys who were 18-22. She would talk to me about them and I and all of our friends at the time would always tell her she was being exploited. We’d point out how much of losers these guys were and how she was being taken for since she was wrong. “Well he has a car” or “but took me to this cool restraunt ~” or “you’re just jealous”… and now 10 years later she’s always blaming men for why she’s single and lonely but she picks the worst fucking guys. Some people are just born stupid but yeah, no accountability whatsoever

MidoriEgg · 2023-11-25T16:34:46+00:00

I think it’s a complicated issue. Over the course of our lives a lot of us will get into relationships (romantic or otherwise) that aren’t good for us, and it can be helpful to reflect on why we did that. I’m sure most people had at least one toxic friend in high school.

On the other hand, some people go too far in painting everyone who things didn’t end well with as evil, but the examples you have seem like genuine reflections.

Would you have the same reaction if a man said ‘I was super unpopular all through school, so I used money to attract girls and attracted the wrong type of people who took advantage. I understand now that came from a place of insecurity.’

SupposedlySapiens · 2023-11-25T17:17:29+00:00

I would say this is more generally a modern human problem. No one, man or woman, seems to have any interest in taking even the slightest personal responsibility these days. Everyone has Main Character Syndrome and will do anything necessary, including completely rewriting history, to ensure that they are always the hero of their story.

wtknight · 2023-11-25T16:24:56+00:00

I haven't noticed this. I thought that women are still framing failed relationships in terms of the man being "immature" more than that they were being abused or manipulated.

They still shift responsibility for the failed relationship to the man, but I don't think that it's as bad as saying that they were abused or manipulated.

Of course, men usually attribute failed relationships to the woman, so I'm not attacking women for this. It's just that avoiding personal responsibility is something that humans in general tend to do.

Mexcol · 2023-11-25T17:44:10+00:00

Women and plausible deniability? Its always the other party!

KorinTowerFreeloader · 2023-11-25T19:23:05+00:00

Yes. A lot of women lack accountability because society allows them. The majority doesn't self-reflect on anything, and it's always the other guy's fault.

moldovan0731 · 2023-11-25T19:10:24+00:00

The more posts Iike these I see, the more I realize how pointless they are. Most women would rather die than admit to what these kinds of posts are about.

MongoBobalossus · 2023-11-25T16:32:19+00:00

Self victimization is a trait most unsuccessful daters, male or female, possess.

It’s way easier to blame someone else than look in the mirror and look headlong at your own faults.

EulenWatcher · 2023-11-25T16:20:14+00:00

There are a lot of women who have had pretty positive dating experience and don't blame their exes for their dissolution. A lot of couples end amicably. Most women have not been abused and I'd argue the majority doesn't have an extensive experience of being pumped and dumped either.

Also I wouldn't assume that all of the women you're talking about are specifically lying or trying to spin the story their way. Some people do get abused, lied to and used. I'd have some doubts if they said that all/most of their previous partners were abusive/psychos/crazy, because either they have poor vetting and need therapy or they just call all their exes crazy for no reason, but some bad experience is pretty believable.

dominantoneforher · 2023-11-25T19:08:48+00:00

I think most men and women take the easy way out and tend to blame their failures on something bedsides themselves. Why would relationships be any different?

theReaders · 2023-11-26T03:25:24+00:00

New-old flavor of rape apologia just dropped

No seriously "you weren't raped you just regret the sex" is such a classic victim blaming phrase I'm embarrassed you actually posted it

Patrickstarho · 2023-11-25T19:10:31+00:00

women will always try and void themselves of guilt.

DimensionVegetable37 · 2023-11-26T01:38:09+00:00

Women will ALWAYS do that. She will always be both a victim and empowered at the same time. Its a lack of accountability and society unwilling to punish women for their behavior.

You often hear that girls mature quicker than boys. Her body might. But honestly most women dont age mentally past 16 until she reaches her mid 30s or 40s. You see this when women start looking into "hobbies", Yoga, Meditation and shit. Develop an ego about how mature she is now and doesnt have time in her life for negative energy.

The reality of that is. The attention and power she had dropped because she got older. And now shes starting to learn about herself. Boys learn and develop the same mindset in their teens because if they didnt find a purpose they would kill themselves from the loneliness and lack of purpose. Mens value comes from the things he does in life and makes of himself.

So what you are seeing is how most women go through life. Shes empowered or a Victim based on which reality gives her the best outcome. And the lies are her trying to make reality what she wants it to be. In her youth she had access to all the support. All the love. And mountains of advice from both men and women.

And women will ignore it all. Choose the worst outcomes because they are exciting on purpose. Live in a distorted view of reality where "Likes" are something of value. And when it blows up in her face? Shes the victim. She didnt decide for the world to not give her what she wanted because she felt entitled to it. And she will avoid accountability by telling lies. Always being the victim.

Even in therapy, many women QUIT the moment they cant blame their partner for everything. When she has to take accountability? Poof no more therapy. And sadly when shes finally ready? Its too late. Shes 40, alone and stuck in her ways. And if shes good looking? The chance she will ever change her mindset is very slim.

Demasii · 2023-11-26T02:36:05+00:00

I don't think it's just the women themselves that victimize but society is feeding them this narrative.

I have some exes that were good men but they were just not compatible with me in the long term. People are very adamant about painting them as the bad guy when the topic of past relationships is brought up.

I remember once on PPD long ago (I forgot when) asking me why I broke up with a decent man like it was an illogical thing to do. Apparently holding an ex in high regard is impossible.

Ask men about their exes and the majority of the answers are every woman were "crazy" and a "stupid bitch".

KayRay1994 · 2023-11-25T16:21:29+00:00

Is it self victimization or is it reflecting on one’s past after realizing what’s actually happening?

the real answer is it could be either, and you can’t really throw in any hunches until you see the person’s individual character (or hell, it could also be a combination of both) - point is you can’t throw in a blanket statement like this when your only basis is “but what about the man’s pov?!”

even then - you’re also ignoring the millions of instances of “bro she was crazy”, “she was a bitch”etc - in these instances, do you ask what the woman’s pov is? cause i’d wager you probably don’t

Pola_Lita · 2023-11-25T16:40:51+00:00

"I was really lonely so my standards were in hell because I just wanted some intimacy so I slept with guys I otherwise would never given a chance, they exploited my loneliness and used me for sex"
"I was young and impressionable and looked up to him, but now that I'm older I would never given him a chance... "
"I was overweight and had low self esteem and men exploited my willingness to have sex with them for validation, now that I'm fit I finally feel I have the power to choose who I want to date"

(emphasis mine)

I don't know what you're objecting to. Every one of these examples describes her fault in the situation.

Maybe sometimes the guy is just a jerk. No conscious manipulations, no devious schemes, just a thoughtless jerk.

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RepresentativeAide27 · 2023-11-26T04:03:11+00:00

In my experience, this is hugely true. Both my ex-wives made up fake abuse stories to hide that they had affairs. My first ex-wife also included rape claims as a chaser. Both times all our shared friends instantly believed them, and I basically had to start over again from scratch by moving.

Their image was everything to them, and so they threw personal integrity and responsibility out the window to keep their image.

SeveralLiterature980 · 2023-11-26T04:20:37+00:00

Yeah, your classic 'I make bad decisions especially if I'm really attracted to a man' starter pack:

(1) lists 'no hookups' on profile

(2) has a history of 'attracting narcissists'

(3) is an 'empath' or some such nonsense.

(4) is "ready" for a good partner

4 horsemen of the apocalypse right here.

As soon as a woman drops one of these, just gun it and run it and extract the sex (if you're interested in that) and move on. Don't get suckered.

GlamSunCrybabyMoon · 2023-11-27T04:44:08+00:00

Why is it not plausible that a lot of women experience abuse from men? (Rhetorical) Why is it more believable that most women are lying rather than believing that most women experience manipulation and abuse?

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2023-11-25T22:29:26+00:00

why are you framing it as "consent"? women can regret an fling and feel ill used without it being a rape charge

why don't you all stop reading TwoX

12throw1234away34 · 2023-11-25T16:23:08+00:00

Modern women famously are allergic to accountability because the modern, gynocentric discourse constantly paints them as helpless victims of the patriarchy.

Nothing is ever their fault. It’s always men’s fault.

doggiedoc2004 · 2023-11-25T16:22:48+00:00

I was number 3. And I didn’t re frame or frame my past experiences as a fat woman who then put the work in to improve myself. It’s literally what happened to me. It’s literally how I felt at the time and I feel the same looking back. What you call framing is, for me, just DESCRIBING what happened and how I felt/feel about it and how I used to feelings in a positive way to change my life for the better.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2023-11-25T18:26:17+00:00

Regretting something and not wanting to do it again is not retroactive removal of consent. I don’t have the guy’s POV cuz I’m not him.

SillyMushroomTip · 2023-11-25T17:08:26+00:00

Anecdotal but I went on at 40 dates oneyear and one question I would always ask is "how would you describe your last relationship" and at least 90% of the time the answer was "he was abusive"

I stopped taking women seriously after that

JNRoberts42 · 2023-11-25T16:24:01+00:00

I’ve noticed the opposite trend. Orbiters whining that women choose bad men because any woman who dares to share the typical, common complaints of relationship troubles or breakups should never confide in male friends, lest they interpret the complaints as a call to action.

As in “I’ve watched my friend flat mistreated in three relationships now and she never picks a nice guy like me who would never cheat or forget her birthday”

Safinated · 2023-11-25T17:31:25+00:00

Men tell us themselves that they want sex more than anything, and will do anything to get it. So why would we investigate their reasons?

TermAggravating8043 · 2023-11-25T16:13:48+00:00

So, what your saying is woman can never be victims? And men never manipulate or take advantage of woman at all?

januaryphilosopher · 2023-11-25T18:58:08+00:00

How do you know these women who speak up weren't abused? We know there's a lot of secret abuse going on and people are likely to hide being abused or not describe their abuse as such. It's not helping to say anyone who does speak up is only "framing" their relationship that way. If you were abused in a fling you very much would regret it! And of course abusers are even less likely to think of themselves as abusers, male or female, so I wouldn't trust the perspective of a potential abuser as much.

SleepyPoemsin2020 · 2023-11-25T18:16:25+00:00

Where is your data coming from - online? Certain subreddits? IRL? ...Tiktok?

If it is an actual trend, couldn't it be true? Maybe there are an increasing number of exploitative men who have, say, been impressed by TRP.

As for why the guys' points of view aren't taken into account - it seems a common thing for any human complaining about a past relationship - romantic or otherwise - to talk mainly about their point of view, not the other person's point of view.

ChemistryFederal6387 · 2023-11-26T10:08:46+00:00

Look the problem is women chase after men out of their league and are drawn to bad boys. Pretty much every woman has the option of a long term relationship but that would involve her having realistic standards and dating men who she considers a bit dull/boring.

So to pretend she isn't responsible for her own dire dating life, she creates a world in which all men are evil.

Whereas in reality she has full control of her dating life and could fix the problem anytime she wanted.

LillthOfBabylon · 2023-11-25T22:37:37+00:00

“Women never get abused. It’s all in their heads.”

WANT_SOME_HAM · 2023-11-25T19:51:42+00:00

What is this based on? How would you know these women are lying about being in an abusive relationship?

Downtown_Werewolf_44 · 2023-11-25T21:24:22+00:00

I'm not sure this is a women issue, a lot of men fail to take responsibilty in there break up to.

But I did notice a trend lately: I don't know if it's a french thing but in the past few months, I encounter a lot of women claiming they were victims of narcissistic perverts. It's like half of the dudes have this trait.

jonabay4 · 2023-11-25T22:29:10+00:00

Men also have a tendency toward manipulation and abuse when unhappy in relationships - because they don't just want to leave, they want you to hold the door open for them.

Spyro7x3 · 2023-11-25T23:51:08+00:00

Its not a trend its literally a feature of women. They're wired to off load responsibility and accountability for social reasons. This is why women never regret anything in the moment, they hardly ever apologize either until wayyy later. It took my ex a year and half to finally apologize for cheating it came out of nowhere we hadn't talked for months and suddenly she decided yeah she did me dirty.

Women are survivalists, absorbing blame is not part of their nature. Taking the lick is an inherently masculine trait. Thats why men who don't take responsibility and try to sell out homies are considered bitches literally you become a female in other mens eyes.

AreOut · 2023-11-26T00:44:15+00:00

to be fair as a RP man I would like to remove consent for a couple of my sexual encounters...what a waste of energy that was

Stunning_Memory8347 · 2023-11-26T01:05:48+00:00

If a woman EVER mentions "muh abuse" I take that as a red flag. The shit is so outrageously overused nowadays.

fatbandoneonman · 2023-11-26T01:26:55+00:00

I would say that due to social factors ie sexism, a lot of times it does turn out true that there was some abuse, especially sexually. Sexism includes issues like much older men taking advantage of much younger women and financial manipulation. There’s also the physical differences that could lend more easily to abuse.

It’s true though that we don’t know both sides of the story, but if we look at stuff on social, it doesn’t make it look that much better for men. Not saying women are perfect angels, just that social factors give evidence supporting the women with this “trend”.

testamentfan67 · 2023-11-26T01:39:50+00:00

*Everyone who didn’t grow up past the age of 15. Only super immature people will take rejection so hard and equate it to abuse.

Ok-Process-9795 · 2023-11-26T02:08:45+00:00

These are not invalid excuses, though, and men get taken advantage of for having low self-esteem all of the time.

The whole concept of alphas and betas, chads and virgins, the entire red pill really, is men observing that some women will take advantage of men with body issues or lack of experience because these guys are less likely to find someone better.

Hell, even the guys who do get laid in your world view are just getting used for sex. A guy with a big dick who goes around cuckolding normal guys doesn't have anyone in his life who loves him. He's just a sex object to his fellow human beings. He uses sex to fill the void of intimacy and agency in his life. No one makes him feel loved, but he can get people to make him feel desirable.

Overarching_Chaos · 2023-11-26T04:21:22+00:00

If a woman claims all her exes were abusive/toxic/manipulative etc, she's either shaming these men for setting boundaries or she legit dated out of the 2% pool of men who actually have Dark Triad personalities. In the latter case, you seriously need some psychoanalysis to determine why you are attracted to such men.

MotleyCrew1989 · 2023-11-26T06:54:34+00:00

But hey... women are not a hivemind... hahahaha.

They are overgrown todlers, they never take any acountability for the relationships they form or the men they choose to sleep with.

LaTableEstBasse · 2023-11-26T09:35:17+00:00

This is a major red flag for me.

TomKikkert · 2023-11-26T09:51:04+00:00

Women hate being judged so will frame it as them being victims all the time

Secure-Ad-421 · 2023-11-26T10:51:40+00:00

We all create narratives- mostly so we have something to move forward with. Especially around breakups. There might be a couple people you discuss the gory details with but most people are going to get a version of the story that omits or interprets facts to serve your goals. Primarily for your own consumption but reified through telling others the story.

These are all just examples of that practice, with themes that are commonly accepted today. This will continue, the themes will change.

It’s best if the narrative hews as close to the facts as possible but we’re human. If you leave out all the prior mistakes, there’s a good chance you will re-make them in the future.

gntlbastard · 2023-11-26T11:43:45+00:00

Women like the idea that they are passive players in their love lives. Makes it easier to justify that they are victims etc etc.

Women have a tendency to victimize themselves by framing past relationships that didn't work out as involving "manipulation" or "abuse"

Comments

All three of these quotes take accountability for having standards that were too low and tolerating poor treatment.

Absolutely none of these statements are removing accountability.

when a woman holds herself accountable, men cover their ears and ignore her and accuse her of falsely claiming rape when none of this insinuates rape.

Title	Women have a tendency to victimize themselves by framing past relationships that didn't work out as involving "manipulation" or "abuse"
Author	Napo_De_Leone
Upvotes	136
Comments	197
Date	November 25, 2023 4:11 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/183n2l9/women_have_a_tendency_to_victimize_themselves_by/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-have-a-tendency-to-victimize-themselves-by.1239313 https://theredarchive.com/post/1239313