Many women are actually quite distrustful of other women, they just defend the sisterhood in front of men

mlo9109 · 2024-01-03T14:45:02+00:00

I'm the lifelong victim of mean girls. I don't trust other women as a result. I do not defend the sisterhood because it hasn't done shit for me. Hell, even my own mother bullies me because she sees me as competition, I guess.

MidoriEgg · 2024-01-03T17:38:15+00:00

I’ve always been a girl’s girl, most of my close friendships have been girls. The family members I’ve got most support from where women, etc but I know some people have had the opposite experience of me, and I know some women see all other women as competition.

fuckredditmodz69 · 2024-01-03T15:42:54+00:00

This is well known, girls will say shit like "she's a queen!!" when other girls are around then talk shit behind their backs. Dudes will say mikes a punk ass bitch but as soon as he leaves the room talk about what great of a guy he is.

Fearless_Method_1682 · 2024-01-03T15:41:28+00:00

Accounts of female dominated workplaces on Reddit seem to back you up

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/h0w8of/for_both_men_and_women_here_what_is_it_like/

chalkandapples · 2024-01-03T21:12:29+00:00

Women are still individual people, and of course they would have conflict. Different women have different ways of thinking, so disagreement isn't surprising. I think women talk about their conflicts more and don't suppress bad feelings towards someone else as much. Basically women are more likely to complain about something earlier and more often than men. This is also why women are great at advocacy, not just for ourselves but other groups as well, we're just more likely to voice concerns compared to men.

That being said, I think women have a natural bond with other women. It doesn't mean we're automatically good friends or will back each other up in any situation. It's weaker than the bond of an acquittance, but stronger than the bond of basic manners towards a stranger. I feel like I can go to any woman on the street for help in a pinch and they would be willing to help me, I feel like there's a good chance that other women I don't know will back me up on women related stuff.

Most of my friends are men, since I studied CS and those are my classmates. My hobbies are in line with men, and I can talk to men for hours about common interests while I often get very bored and out of my element in a group of all women. But even like this, when I walk into a room of strangers, I feel like I automatically have a connection with other women and gravitate towards the women. I feel emotionally closer to my female friends and want to talk to them about more serious and deeper topics even though our personalities are completely different. It's boring for me to hang out with them at times, and they know that, but when I need help and want to talk about deep emotional stuff, none of that matters and they become the best confidants and emotional support.

bruhholyshiet · 2024-01-03T23:17:24+00:00

Many women also report feeling more comfortable with male than female bosses. Why? Likely because the female boss will see through all the bullshit lol. It's not internalized misogyny it's the realization that women will not white knight for them.

This reminds me of my mom's experience. She used to work as an executive in a company, the environment was super toxic and she always told me she liked her male subordinates better than her female ones, who were far gossiper, phony and ruthless.

Tbf, she also told me her male supervisor was an absolute prick (and she knows that nowadays the guy doesn't dare to be half as mean to her replacement, another man).

I guess multiple things can be true.

wtknight · 2024-01-03T16:28:59+00:00

I’m not even sure how many women defend the sisterhood. I think that it’s just a certain type of woman who tends to come to places like Reddit. Most of the women whom I’ve known in my life definitely do not defend all women even in front of other men.

arvada14 · 2024-01-04T00:45:44+00:00

There is no such thing as a universal sisterhood where ALL women get along. You sound detached from reality. Women typically have a group of women they stick with while other women are the out group in their mind.

Sadsad0088 · 2024-01-03T17:19:26+00:00

The few women I’ve met who didn’t trust or get along with women were often trouble themselves.

I think it’s a case of “If you smell poop all say it’s not the people around you it’s under your shoe”

I don’t believe in “sisterhood “ either, I just look at people

MateriallyRetarded · 2024-01-03T20:05:21+00:00

I think this idea that women secretely hate each other and all men are bros is completely stupid.

If you're a man, then I'd be suprised if you trust or like a lot of other men. I've been insulted and threatened by other men (especially when really young) far more than by women, especially to my face.

There are plenty of men that love to gossip and talk shit about people behind their back just as much women.

almighty_mr_d · 2024-01-03T17:40:19+00:00

If I may posit a theory, it's because women, while they are single (regardless of age) are in competition with one another to see who gets married first and who get married to the best man in their group. This mostly unconscious and since most of female competition is subtle, they can maintain what outwardly looks like a friendship, while covertly being at war.

When they get married, there tends to be less subtle warfare between them. There is less spreading of rumors about other women, less competing in looks and whatever else they think men want. The goal of competing then shifts to who is running their household better or who has the most peaceful household of the group, which is why when married woman A tells married woman B something, the husband of woman B gets a gossip piece from his wife, because she is either joyous because her household is more peaceful, or she is unhappy because they are being outdone by their peers.

Now, obviously not all female friendships are a cover for cmsome sort of competition, but a lot of them are. That's my take on it

justathrowawaym8y · 2024-01-03T14:39:29+00:00

I think there's a difference between the usually online stance of defending the "sisterhood" and the actual opinion of irl women, who have a far more nuanced take.

When a man has a problem with his girlfriend's father it's usually during the early dating phase. MILs cause problems years into the marriage.

I've heard countless stories of men having issues with their FIL way into their relationship.

Many women also report feeling more comfortable with male than female bosses. Why? Likely because the female boss will see through all the bullshit lol. It's not internalized misogyny it's the realization that women will not white knight for them.

Do they? Are there studies on this? If so it'll be interesting to see.

It's hardly a big secret that women often have issues with other women and that the inter-personal relationships between women are harder to manage, just about every woman has a story about a female friend or colleague who gave them shit because they felt threatened. It's always hard to gauge motivations but I think it would be incredibly naive to attest all those stories to women not "white knighting".

kayceeplusplus · 2024-01-03T20:23:40+00:00

People here are annoying because one second they'll whine about how men are victims of gynocentrism because women prefer each other over men and cite the women are wonderful effect for any and everything, then next gleefully recount stereotypes of women being catty and hating each other and talking smack behind each others backs.

Honestly the biggest haters of women are people who desperately want women to hate each other. Which has been mostly men. I've seen way more male dominated spaces bitch about women hating each other than actual women doing it lmao.

As for your issues outlined, I do think women can hate each other, but it's often in the context where they have no individual power so they try to get it from the men closest to them. It's why this boymom phenomenon happens or the MIL hating their DIL happens, it's often in patriarchal countries where women are expected to merge with the husband's family more than the other way around.

I've seen studies go either way and have different explanations for the boss thing, and it's a shaky generalization imo. Certainly not enough for the bold claims being made from some people here.

Women are people at the end of the day. We dont like men coming and saying shit about us, so ofc we'll defend the "sisterhood", just like men do their manhood. That won't change the fact that women are also individuals and can have conflicts with each other, just like men do.

safestuff987 · 2024-01-03T18:31:51+00:00

The whole "defend the sisterhood" idea is mostly a thing with perpetually-online women, IRL only a handful of women are really like this. Even then, from what I've seen the "defend the sisterhood" women are extremely vicious towards the women who don't agree with them.

What I've observed as well is most of the "defend the sisterhood" type women only do so when it personally benefits them.

IRL women aren't as monolithic as perpetually-online women, there's far more diversity and nuance in how they act.

Female intrasexual competition is a very real thing.

pronouns-king-lord · 2024-01-03T15:27:43+00:00

Defended sisterhood? you mean gaslight men as a whole?

You like to date an young women - predator.

You don't like high body count women,-misogynist.

You don't want to date an obese women-misogynist.

Try to shame us out of our positions for having standards.

Most women haven't been victims of toxic men, they are just projecting because they are shitty partners.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-01-03T20:19:13+00:00

The same can be said for men, perhaps even more so. Men tend to become borderline misandrists when they have daughters. Or when their mom starts dating after a divorce. Suddenly, men are not to be trusted.

Imo people in general are selfish and not to be trusted without vetting. Overall I like having female friends more though since they don’t get pissy when I don’t want to have sex with them and don’t ghost when I’m in a relationship. I used to think I liked having guy friends more but really I just didn’t have the social skills to make female friends… and I’ve found women are actually pretty awesome as friends. They are fun and caring. As far as bosses/profs go, it’s hit or miss. Women can be more picky about how work is done and more likely to micromanage, but also explain things better (at least from another woman’s perspective). Ultimately, people are people and there are good and bad eggs.

2024-01-04T22:11:05+00:00

Lots of women I met during my early years, and even some nowadays told me one thing that really stayed in my head: a slang phrase in my language that basically translates as "women don't trust another women to vouch for them".

So it really seemed weird and even artificial when I started hearing around ten years ago that women are sisters and defend each other, or are supposed to. It never computed in my mind.

2024-01-03T17:50:30+00:00

I have lived my whole life as a woman and never experienced what you are referring to. Damn that's insane. I've never claimed to be part of a "sisterhood," nor have I met a women who has claimed so.

What I have experienced is just as many men being gossipy, underhanded, and judgemental as women. Wow, shocker! Almost like men and women aren't that different.

Let me ask you this: what gender are your friends?

Radiant_Specific6542 · 2024-01-03T15:17:27+00:00

Women don't like most things. Just live your life 🤣

T3DDY834R · 2024-01-04T00:06:15+00:00

I'm not aware of any "sisterhood" club that I'm supposed to be a part of. And I don't automatically love/hate someone based on their sex.

I just don't like misogynists. Because they're annoying and they want to make life harder for women (which includes me).

I've never noticed a difference in quality between female and male bosses either. There's great and awful ones of both sexes so idk what you mean by that.

emorizoti · 2024-01-03T15:34:50+00:00

Men usually pick up a toxic behavior after they get heartbroken by their ex girlfriend. Women learn how to be toxic from their female friends.

TiddieEnthusiast · 2024-01-03T17:57:45+00:00

Disagreeing with negative generalizations about women (AWAL, all women ride the CCC, etc.) is not the same as believing all women are perfect angels. Female “sisterhood”, if there is such a thing, is about protecting vulnerable women, not giving shitheads a pass.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2024-01-03T19:44:35+00:00

I try to keep this in mind when reading PPD. People tend to defend the tribe online and it's the rare person that can resist this urge.

After a while on PPD it strains credulity that most women on here are unassailably virtuous, graciously tolerant of male flaws, fastidiously honest in all things, patiently supportive of their SO's weaknesses, attentive to a fault to their partner's needs, equanimous even in the face of any and all male tirades and meltdowns, have perfectly calibrated standards, and are eminently reasonable in all things. Damn, where do I find these paragons in the real world? PPD is positively packed with them.

So yeah, it's obvious that we're getting one side of the story from women defending the sisterhood.

But also...!

These women are facing a lot of men on here who produce daily screeds about how women are uniformly horrible pieces of shit. So, maybe it's natural that they get their shields up and feel the need to defend their "team" with an equally ridiculous positive caricature.

I usually dismiss the woman hate with an eye roll and collapse the thread before reading the whole thing. If it were aimed at me I might feel perversely compelled to read the whole thing and get super pissed. In this way man hate sometimes hits me harder. I get defensive and I'm sure it colors what I write on here. I'm part of the problem too sometimes. ✋

Diamond-Breath · 2024-01-04T00:07:45+00:00

No, we're not all like that. I love women even if some of them are or can be assholes to me in the future. I don't go looking for trouble with them even if some try to tear me down.

I know it all depends on the person and not the gender.

kayceeplusplus · 2024-01-03T20:33:50+00:00

Eh I'm a feminist but I'm also a hater. If you're a massive bitch or the kind of slut that likes to fuck married men/men with boyfriends, I'm not fucking with you.

MoonGirl764 · 2024-06-30T22:50:55+00:00

I never had a sister, lost my close female school friends when we moved away. I was a bookworm/ geek in HS, so I didn’t identify with peers. FF to after college ( Nursing major) and my first job working around majority of women of different ages. A few acted as mentors ( older than me), those my age were indifferent/ cold. I finally bonded with a younger co-worker, who was in a rocky RS at home. Since I was older, it was I that took her under MY wing, showed her the ropes at work, etc.. Also listened to her sob stories about the guy who treated her like dirt. Long story short, she found a more stable RS ( good) with her BIL ( not good) and moved out . Once she didn’t need me anymore, we rarely spoke. When I confronted her about it, she gaslighted me. This taught me a valuable lesson I probably would’ve learned a long time ago, if I’d had more female “friends.” I’m a bit cynical now, and wary of other women. I don’t go out to hurt other women , but I don’t go out of my way to help too many either. I was really hurt- once she found a man, she no longer needed me.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-01-03T14:58:23+00:00

OP is a man, and in no position to explain how women feel.

you rarely hear about toxic father in laws.

Sure we do, but it isn't as common because men your age don't do anything with their families, Boomers pursue their own hobbies and ignore the family.

Many women also report feeling more comfortable with male than female bosses.

Male bosses don't "white knight" for women unless they are sexually attracted, and when male bosses are sexually attracted, work is miserable. Female bosses make a list and explain the results they expect. Male bosses hover, rub shoulders, peek down blouses, put their hands on her hips as they walk by, waste time starting personal conversations and showing off...

neinhaltchad · 2024-01-03T21:54:02+00:00

Men are mean to other men (and don’t mean it)

Women are nice to other women (and don’t mean it)

Makuta_Servaela · 2024-01-03T15:30:50+00:00

It's not internalized misogyny

No, it largely just is internalized misogyny. From my own experience of female socialization and growing up in a lower class neighbourhood, there are a few reasons I generally trusted women less than men until I unlearned the issues and things that I presume may be in play:

"Not like the other girls": I was generally convinced that women were most of the stereotypes people claimed they were. I was convinced that female bonding was shameful, and that it was considered shameful to like stereotypical female things. This was largely because most of my friend group happened to be male (my brothers' friends) and because I was raised in, and this is the next point...:
Abrahamic Religions. You can only hear "women(Eve) are to blame for all the world's problems and for men's actions" and that only men are real leaders so many times before you start to internalize it.
Single Parenthood: I was raised with two parents, but I grew up in a neighbourhood where most men's dads left the family, meaning most boys grew up thinking of that as normal and caring less about their own kids. Most of the single parent households I saw ended up with moms doting on their sons as if he was a replacement for her boyfriend/husband and side lining her daughters into caretaker roles.
Tribalism in the face of oppression: This is true for pretty much any class of people oppressed by (or perceiving themselves to be oppressed by another): Rich people convince middle class and poor people to fight against each other so they don't get a collective voice. Black people turn on Asians and vice versa, women turn on other women, disabled people turn on other disabled people, trans people turn on gay people and vice versa, etc, etc. If you have a lot of systemic struggle, it feels way easier to punch at the side or down than up, especially if the people you feel have power over you will/may reward you for doing so (hence why, for example, women voted against women's suffrage).
Betrayal: When the girl who is supposed to understand you turns on you for any of the aforementioned reasons, it makes sense that you will then learn to distrust other women more. At least men who hate you tend to be open about it, and the men who don't hate you, you still tend to write off as "he's helpful, but he doesn't really get me", but it sucks to feel connected to a woman and then find out she actually hates you over that trait you were bonding with her over because she is ashamed of having it herself.

AMDisappointment · 2024-01-03T16:48:26+00:00

They just feel personally attacked it seems like

LaTableEstBasse · 2024-01-03T18:03:23+00:00

You just have to witness how they talk behind their backs. It's frightening...

ixtasis · 2024-01-03T14:39:13+00:00

I don't trust most people. I don't like female bosses because due to misogyny, women have to work harder to prove themselves, and that often translates to micromanagement and fear of someone taking their spot.

Scarce12 · 2024-01-03T17:48:22+00:00

I think this is why the institute of marriage still exists.

Women would have torn it down in the 1970s if it weren't for the fact that they want to put rings on guys because they dont trust other women.

Safinated · 2024-01-03T16:41:27+00:00

Yes, because guess who the bigger political, physical and social threat to us is?

froderenfelemus · 2024-01-03T15:52:02+00:00

I would argue that the older generation is less likely to be apart of the sisterhood - aka toxic boy moms, for example. The misogyny is so deeply ingrained within them, and they haven’t had feminism and the internet the same way we had growing up.

I have a male and female boss. I love them both. But I do feel a lot more comfortable coming to my female boss about bigger things and such. I’m glad I got one of both

CraftyCooler · 2024-01-03T19:47:53+00:00

Many women also report feeling more comfortable with male than female bosses. Why? Likely because the female boss will see through all the bullshit lol. It's not internalized misogyny it's the realization that women will not white knight for them.

Not really. We do see through bs but it is a bit harder for a man to 'kick ass' of female employee, some guys are too lazy to escalate when women are involved(but indeed there is a significant percentage of white knight morons among managers)

januaryphilosopher · 2024-01-03T15:09:43+00:00

It's more socially acceptable for anyone to criticise women, so of course that's what you're hearing more of even if the same number of private doubts are held about men. Women can also be conditioned by sexism, you know.

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shmupsy · 2024-01-03T21:09:21+00:00

Group teamwork gives you a boost in the west. Doesn't really matter if you like each other, still gonna get that bag.

Of course if you liked each other, it would be even better

RevolutionaryJob7908 · 2024-01-03T23:43:18+00:00

The way things are, due to youtube and other educational resources, the higher institutions are great, but they only say what you put time into. The degree doesn't say whether or not you learned or were active in it. It's why trends are saying soft skills missing etc, and increased testing of skills prior to employment. Where I'm getting at in response to OP is in the boss aspect. I've had many 'girl bosses' and you know which ones I work hard for, and love?

It tends to be the one's who moved up traditionally opposed to degree + onboard. I've watched employers have to figure out how to 'get rid of' non-experienced degree bosses. Even worse, because I'm in the higher education system, I've tested their knowledge, and it's boggling how they seemed to forget. Granted this isn't all, or even most. It's about 'sometimes'.

Where I'm getting at, is sometimes I ask 'Why don't I do the job instead if I know more and have more experience?'. There is in some employers a bias against moving men up. It has a lot to do with not the principle ideal of diversity and inclusion, but in it's execution. It's used as a pawn tool opposed to it's purpose, enforcing Nepotism, arguably nothing to do with variety of quality candidates. It's the explanation for why incompetence in some cases (not all) has risen the ranks.

Attempting to get to my point, I beleive due to our current situation, managers and bosses should be paid closer to the workers, unless they have some sort of genuine softskill that others don't possess below them. In most cases, it's true.

When it comes to men specifically, yes you want to move men back up into those feilds, and their qualifications should include how they interact with others. So yes, and with a big filter. The right men placed in positions of limited power can do wonders. It can help increase the number of datable candidates. Choosing to outright block all men from moving up in a company due to their gender enforces less datable candidates. Less options for all.

Motherofvampires · 2024-01-04T00:05:16+00:00

If you think women are mean to men, that's nothing compared to how mean they can be to each other. They tear each other to shreds. It really makes me laugh when people talk about how women have these fabulous support networks. I'm not saying it never happens, but often what looks supportive on the outside is more like a power struggle. Women are often much more supportive of their sons than their daughters and relationships between mother in-law and daughter in law or sisters can be downright vicious.

kayceeplusplus · 2024-01-04T01:48:23+00:00

Citation needed for the last paragraph. Both my male and female managers were great.

child0light · 2024-01-04T06:20:58+00:00

I think you're right. I also avoid people who defend entire groups of humans without knowing all of them personally. That in itself is a red flag to me.

That__EST · 2024-01-04T10:00:51+00:00

Many women also report feeling more comfortable with male than female bosses. Why? Likely because the female boss will see through all the bullshit lol. It's not internalized misogyny it's the realization that women will not white knight for them.

The woman boss will also have a higher ability to enjoy passive aggressive digs and putting women in the workplace against each other while later feigning the whole "wha wha what'd I do?" 😢👉👈 Or believing that to be respected as much as they perceive men bosses to be, they must make pointless and illogical rules upon rules upon rules and over react when they feel like they arent being obeyed in order to be taken seriously.

DXBrigade · 2024-01-04T11:36:05+00:00

lol what do you mean by distrustful ? Sisterhood doesn't mean that everyone get along.

As for the rest it's mostly confirmation bias and yes, misogyny. Plenty of toxic FIL and male coworkers but because the reverse is a cliché people will focus on the later.

No_Hunter4484 · 2024-01-04T12:16:08+00:00

Women have Special Bond to Their First Born children. Yoh cant really describe how much they love you . They have abandonment issues.

Title	Many women are actually quite distrustful of other women, they just defend the sisterhood in front of men
Author	Novel-Tip-7570
Upvotes	119
Comments	195
Date	January 3, 2024 2:32 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/18xkqyz/many_women_are_actually_quite_distrustful_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/many-women-are-actually-quite-distrustful-of-other.1242160 https://theredarchive.com/post/1242160

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