If the men on here somehow managed to convince all women to lower their standards, (negotiation of attraction) you can’t convince them to genuinely be happy in those relationships

GridReXX · 2025-06-24T15:35:04+00:00

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The-Cherry-On-Top-xx · 2025-06-24T14:01:54+00:00

Every woman has lowered her standards at one point, waiting for her attraction to develop like society told her to do, and ended up in a toxic relationship.

Also, women have to endure multiple pregnancies and childbirths - thats not something you do for just any guy

ASnowfallOfCherry · 2025-06-24T14:02:37+00:00

Personally I think the market will work it out.

Starting in middle school, both genders start to get the message loud and clear about what is considered attractive.

The jocks or Richie riches get the interest of the pretty girls. The nice religious soft women line up with their religious men. In that process, people learn that may be hot and crazy is bad for the long haul and a himbo is too boring. The girls who overshoot based on some general good looks go through a few years of miserable dating (just like the pretty girl or boy going to LA to discover they are a dime a dozen). This happens to BOTH genders. It isn’t settling exactly, it’s appreciating what you can get and loving who you are with.

If a woman is so deluded - as men posit here - that she continues to be used by Chad and ignores a good guy, that good guy has DODGED a BULLET. Because if she always thinks she’s too good for him, it’s going to be a terrible marriage. This is the importance of being “equally yoked.” You want to marry someone who thinks you are the cats’ meow.

Ruztomski · 2025-06-24T18:53:44+00:00

What you assume in each of these many similar threads with identical themes is that this brief moment in dating is the one true moment. That all the unnatural developments that brought us here, things like social media, online dating, the current political climate, and a recent pandemic to name some, have revealed a natural order of things. That these contrivances paradoxically brought us back to a state of nature. Maybe make that case.

Is it possible that things aren't as dire as you imply?

Is it possible that the dating "market" often shifts, and what we see now is temporary?

Is it possible that the contrivances I mention have skewed some women's views on men in general beyond clarity and into something more like a caricature?

If things aren't so dire and they are at least somewhat temporary and if some women (and sadly some men) are sort of fashionably dumping on men, does any of your single thesis repeated across these dozens of threads hold up?

And then who exactly are you trying to convince that things are indeed irredeemably so black these days that finding solace outside of dating is many men's only viable choice? I have to wonder if you look in the mirror and read your posts out loud.

klaire_bear_ · 2025-06-24T14:18:43+00:00

I lowered my standards once and was treated very badly...

I know lots of women who have also done this and it ended very badly too. Their own insecurities seem to lead them to treating you very badly in an attempt to make you feel shit.

Downtown_Cat_1745 · 2025-06-24T13:51:13+00:00

They don’t care if women are happy. Also, most of the men on this board want to have anonymous casual sex and think less of the women who are willing to do it

angelbaby933 · 2025-06-24T13:48:16+00:00

It’s wild that this even needs saying.

If a guy felt he could do better than me I wouldn’t begrudge him of that at all and I’d much rather he found someone else than CONVINCE himself to like me. I’d find that so demeaning.

Do these men have zero pride?

Overarching_Chaos · 2025-06-24T15:28:20+00:00

Same shit different day... Men aren't the ones posting articles on mainstream media about "unrealistic beauty standards for women' all the time. It's crazy how Instagram and porn have warped people's perceptions on beauty standards for both men and women, yet many women constantly defend their own warped standards and condemn men's.

Like I can follow your own logic and say "you can convince men to date women who don't have the body proportions of Eve from Stellar Blade, but they won't be happy".

Primary_Mechanic_565 · 2025-06-24T14:06:20+00:00

Not disagreeing with OP at all, but I dont think people are any happier in relationships today than they were 100 years ago.

There is always an element of "settling", especially when the honeymoon phase dies out and you have to share a space together; deal with the ups and downs of life; the gross parts of being human, etc.

It takes a special kind of personality to be able to love deeply enough to get satisfaction from a long term relationship, and I don't know if those qualities are being nurtured in today's hyperindivualistic, FOMO-driven society.

lesliecarbone · 2025-06-24T13:51:10+00:00

If the men on here somehow managed to convince all women to lower their standards,

they'd whine about feeling "settled for".

MongoBobalossus · 2025-06-24T13:46:45+00:00

Nobody “settles” for people they find completely unattractive, men or women. People don’t pity date, pity fuck, or pity marry charity cases in the looks/personality department.

So expecting one or the other to do that is stupid.

harmonica2 · 2025-06-24T13:56:06+00:00

This makes sense but women tell men to lower their standards all the time here, so are they expecting a different outcome?

Logos1789 · 2025-06-24T16:23:23+00:00

The point is that women make choices that lead to them having higher standards than are conducive to most people finding a partner they’re satisfied with.

For example, by actively using social media from a young age, they are exposed to countless men who they otherwise never would have laid their eyes on, let alone receive communication from.

Dating apps are the most extreme version of this, where instead of forming a baseline understanding of what they find attractive in person, it’s shaped by men from a 50 mile radius with no natural boundaries across age and social groups.

Before dating apps, most instances of casual sex wouldn’t have been practical. First of all, it would require a lot of traveling and spending time in bars and other venues. Second of all, the more desirable men would at least have to bear the embarrassment of hitting on lesser desirable women and bringing them home. Now they can order easy sex from their couch and the limiting social considerations are absent.

Then there’s the “everyone is beautiful/don’t settle/you’re the prize/etc.” mass media messaging (this is also perpetuated by social media). Girls are raised with such fragile egos that it somehow becomes easier for them to live in delusion as to their own value on the dating market than it is to have taken some L’s over the years and accepted them as such.

Putrid-Storage-9827 · 2025-06-24T14:27:50+00:00

The nature of modern society does in practice make people more discontent and dissatisfied though, and the sense of infinite options in dating is just one part of this.

Mass media with its infinite audiovisual imagery of every place, person, and luxury imaginable for thousands of miles around, the Internet which allows you to communicate instantly across these distances and the technical possibility to physical travel thousands of miles in a day create infinite opportunities for... chasing or at least dreaming of the next big thing.

Feeling_Ad_1034 · 2025-06-24T19:40:38+00:00

I think this is due to a lot of media plots where the attractive woman has some sort of epiphany that the male protagonist, although not conventionally “masculine”, is actually a really great guy, and falls in love with him.

Typically in these plots, the woman has recently been hurt by a typically “toxically masculine” guy as well

And this lines up with a lot of men’s real life experiences where they’re some version of the red pill’s “beta orbiter” stereotype and become the “emotional tampon” when the beautiful woman laments how badly she was treated, and he gets a glimmer of hope that she may fall for him.

caption291 · 2025-06-24T16:13:41+00:00

Its one thing trying to convince women to lower their standards (negotiation of attraction) but you will never be able to actually influence or control what gets her excited or attracted or happy.

I think that at the core of your beliefs is the idea that people are born with a very concrete and specific set of beliefs/attitudes/attractions/etc... that exist independently of their environment.

So by example, if you had a company. You would show your product to as many women as possible, some of them would like it others wouldn't and that would be the end of the story and any kind of marketing beyond that would be a waste of money.

This is obviously not the case, literally trillions of dollars are spent on the goal of slowly influencing how people feel about things by exploiting various quirks of the human mind.

It's very obvious that our feelings about things are heavily influenced by external factors rather than constants immune to things like propaganda and marketing and there's no reason to believe the feeling of attraction is an exception.

A common, counterargument is that body positivity(for women) didn't work. Yeah, it was never going to work in terms of making men attracted to fat women because at it's core that movement was designed to make fat women feel good about being fat. It wasn't an attempt to genuinely change how men perceive fat women. (it also failed at making fat women feel good about being fat but that's too much of a tangent.)

ComprehensivePipe448 · 2025-06-24T13:53:53+00:00

Not true, you basically came on here arguing against smth people don’t really say.

I forgot the word for this but it’s the same tactic people use online like would you give your girl 30 pound for lunch or 50 pound instesd of why are u giving ur girl money for lunch???

Nobody on here, is telling women to lower their standards, They are just pointing out the statistical fact that women do have higher standards then men (no not personality standards) if you feel like that’s wrong and women shouldn’t have higher standard then men that’s a you problem because nobody ever said that?

Nobody is saying some random 22 year women shouldn’t be allowed to say they only date 6,2+ men they just pointing it out that’s it’s super unrealistic and if she ends up sad and alone she shouldn’t then go complain about it

It’s actually the opposite as well? women are the one who have been pushing the agenda onto young boys through social media and whatever that they’re not allowed to want girls who look a certain way , and if they do they’re a porn addict women have been making men responsible for why some random 15 year old girl feel insecure for years , the opposite has not been done male insecurity has always been met with it’s your problem for years.

(I’ve been speaking in general btw of course nkt everyone is like that)

4444-uuuu · 2025-06-24T15:26:20+00:00

The problem is that women's standards are so high that they're unrealistic, so now we have women rejecting literally thousands of men and ending up single in their 30s. Many of those women would be happier if they had "settled" for a decent looking guy with a good personality who wanted to date her when she was 24. Even the women who do manage to find a relationship in their 30s typically end up with the same type of man they were rejecting before. If a 32-year-old woman ends up with a 32-year-old man, they both would likely be happier if they had gotten together 10 years ago instead. I'm convinced that this is a huge factor in why so many people today are depressed compared to previous generations.

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Spicy_take · 2025-06-24T17:03:11+00:00

Lowering the barrier for entry =/= lowering your relationship standards.

Neptune-Jnr · 2025-06-25T02:00:55+00:00

I think some would be pleasantly surprised and some will be disappointed

Standard-Werewolf769 · 2025-06-24T17:57:50+00:00

Men think women should lower their standards because they want to be valid. Your post starts from the wrong premise: most dudes who are frustrated here and incels and such, they dont want happiness. They want validation and think that validation leads into happiness. If the relationship isnt good who cares? Outsiders wont know, your family and friends dont have to know. You can always keep up the appearances. As long as other people think you are a real man by having that relationship, who cares if her or you are really happy?

thats it. Its about acceptance not happiness. Is about having a stamp of a "real man" and that can unfortunately be acquired by a miserable relationship.

BrightAutumn12 · 2025-06-24T14:31:42+00:00

It's not about lowering standards, it's about having realistic standards.

They whine about bar being low, all men are shit all day and that's the solution.

brentifil · 2025-06-24T14:05:22+00:00

Alot of people are getting the message wrong. Women aren't in the wrong for wanting things and having high standards. The main thing to realize from all of this is that you don't get handed anything as a man. You deserve nothing. You need to hustle and hit the gym. Become a man worth desire.

NoFilterMPLS · 2025-06-24T14:44:06+00:00

Sure you can. Look at religious people. They’re probably happier in their marriages overall than secular people.

Sometimes sexual freedom sounds a lot more fun than it actually is, and sometimes cultural rules about sex bring more happiness than they seem like they would.

flipsidetroll · 2025-06-24T13:53:06+00:00

No. We wouldn’t resent that guy, because he would be within our standards. What would happen, is YOU would resent women because you would now think we had lowered our standards and were now settling for you. It’s the classic hypocrisy of the red pill. Just like you don’t want gold diggers but you are told by red pillers to work on your success so you can attract women who want wealth ie gold diggers. Every point in the red pill has a contradictory action.

Schleudergang1400 · 2025-06-24T15:24:11+00:00

you can’t convince them to genuinely be happy in those relationships

In which case it's a waste of time and the relationship will be awful.

Well, that is probably the argument though. Be happy with less! Why should that not be achievable? WE can observe people doing that in all areas of life.

These women who wouldn't be with a guy beforehand but have now lowered their standards and are giving a guy a shot, will resent that guy.

No. They would not have lowered their standards, when they still measure the guy with the old standards, with regard to the resentment. You actually do need to lower your standards, not just be with a man who doesn't fulfill your standards. The man who they are giving a chance now IS meeting their new standards.

You'll always be a runner up prize, despite you deeming yourself her level and a reasonable standard.

That is mostly your fear, as can be seen by nearly every thread you post. Not being good enough and your woman leaving you for someone better is your core issue. Maybe deal with that with a therapist instead of in this sub.

Nobody is the ideal partner for anyone. They are only ever the best partner they can get. And that is enough.

When in the end of the day, they are genuinely picking "no man" over a guy they have to lower their standards for.

They haven't lowered their standards if they are still preferring now man. The call is not: date men you don't match with and are not attracted to. It's: maybe your judgment on who realistically is a mate for you is slightly off, due to the attention you get from men for sex. So maybe try to adjust your mate preferences to what is realistic for you. Learn to be happy with less. Learn to accept that you cannot get a dream mate, but just one that fits your mate value. See that your mate's physical attractiveness has no correlation with relationship satisfaction and no correlation with your own a attractiveness, if you have known your future partner for more than 9 month prior to dating. Your perception of yourself and judgment on what is important for you in a partner, have been tweaked by media consumption and dating app experiences, and it made you unhappy and unable to find what you think you need. Actively work on changing your standards, unlearn the things that keep you single. Be happy with less.

Also, let's be clear here: Women overwhelmingly have reasonable standards, and overwhelmingly are in committed relationships with men who easily meet those standards. Very few women have unreasonable standards that lead them to be single against their will, frustrated, and ultimately doing some MGTOW-analog with "i don't need a man", "i am happy single", etc. It's a coping strategy. Reject what you can't have anyway.

Correctly assessing your mate value and other people's mate value, to determine if they are reasonable relationship candidates for you is part of "mating intelligence", and some people are stupid in that regard. Media consumption and skewed mating markets (online dating) don't help in the ability to determine an accurate level for yourself and others, especially with little experience.

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Livid-Log7463 · 2025-06-24T17:09:24+00:00

While I agree that women can’t change their inherent collective attraction, but the relationships you describe are what most men are able to get if able to date anyway, in other words what men that argue this want is women’s worst case scenario, meaning what they have now is even WORSE.

Secret_Worlder1992 · 2025-06-24T21:10:39+00:00

How would it be any different from the way things are now? What you're describing is already happening - the large majority of women are in relationships they're not attracted to, never were, and never will be.

bluestjuice · 2025-06-24T23:02:47+00:00

Right, here’s the thing: not all standards are created equal.

When making blanket statements like this, we erase all nuance and context, and severely hamper our ability to exercise discernment and reason. It’s not exactly that it’s wrong, it’s that it equivalizes way too many things.

People are capable of changing, through effort and commitment of varying degrees. That would include changing their thoughts and beliefs around dating preferences. It is possible to conceive instances where someone was persuaded that a particular preference of theirs was wrong or unduly limited, worked to adjust their beliefs, and then was happy with the relationship they formed as a result. We have to assume, though, that people would probably only go to this trouble if they were seriously convinced of the wrongness of their belief or preference.

As an example (though this could be applied to lots of topics/preferences): if someone wanted to persuade me that my preference for partners at least as tall as I am is inappropriately biased, I might consider that and ultimately agree on the basis of my egalitarian beliefs that height is not a critical factor in a good partner. I could set out with intention to change my behavior in regards to dating short men and find it successful and satisfactory because the change aligns with my deeply-held values. If someone wanted to persuade me that my preference for partners who refrain from raising their voices at me was unreasonable, I wouldn’t be amenable to a change there because my reasoned judgment about that behavior is that it is antithetical to the kind of respectful relationship I want to be in.

Haej07 · 2025-06-24T23:51:49+00:00

This implies that women only ever date men that meet their standards and if that was the case why every change or get a new one? If you the opportunity to have your dream car you probably wouldn’t have 5 cars in 7 years after that. You probably wouldn’t be taking Ubers or browsing dealerships. Same thing with if you had a dream home and it met all your standards, you are less likely to move. Women are dating much more commonly for fun and it’s slightly naive and at the same time a toxic cope to keep applying this stigma that they only want love. That’s an oversimplification that women don’t go out of their way to combat because it benefits them every step of the way. It allows innocence, it encourages them to be courted and put less effort and it makes it easier for them to receive sympathy due to a lack of success.

BigMadLad · 2025-06-25T04:28:29+00:00

Happiness can change, though, that’s the whole point of Buddhism. You can be grateful for things even though they’re lesser.

shadowrangerfs · 2025-06-25T09:44:49+00:00

This applies to men too, doesn't it. Doesn't telling men to not want women who look like models and go for "real" women, mean those men will be in unhappy relationships.
We shouldn't tell women to lower their standards. But they should be more realistic about them. They also need to step up their game in order to meet the standards of the men who meet their standards.
Women are raising the wrong standards. They are raising standards for things like height and money. They need to raise their standards when it comes to character.

MjolnirTheThunderer · 2025-06-25T09:46:52+00:00

I think your statement is true, but only in a world where women have plenty of opportunity to earn resources for themselves.

The current system of distribution of resources may be rapidly coming to an end due to the advent of AI. I think history has shown that in a world where access to resources becomes difficult, resources themselves can become attractive and influence perceived attraction (especially for women).

redpilled2021 · 2025-06-25T10:16:20+00:00

The sheer number of arranged marriages and the pervelance of this system for much longer then so called "love marriages" seems to proof differently.

Young females were married to men their parents deemed worthy. Parents value different things than young females.

They look for charackter, future potential and stability, while the young female looks for exitement, a hot body, confidence, superficial success and "fun". thats not a long term strategy to guarantee your genes make it into the next generation. Especialy not in the olden ages. Woman who choose poorly would end up starving to death and society accepted their fate as outcome of grave mistake in choosing a worthy men.

Redditers would of course suggest, that the vast majority of these arranged marriages were hell for woman. Of course redditers would claim, that 99% of woman were beaten on a daylie basis, raped and killed if the chosen husband was in a bad mood. It dosnt matter to reality, what a few people hundred people think, when we have billions in reality.

You cant kill, rape and beat 50% of the population for milenia without some brothers, fathers, sons rising up to defend their sisters, mothers, daughters.

Thats why the extremes of islam can only survive for a couple of decades before men start defending woman.

So yes, woman can learn to be happy. They did it before and we now know we can manipulate woman through media more easily than men.

the-giant-egg · 2025-06-25T11:34:27+00:00

Seems to me relationships are no happier now than they were the last century concurrent with general declines in happiness, so looks like you should reevaluate your goofy modern brand of choice maximalism and accept the obvious fact that hedging bets past a certain point will not actually increase anyone's expected long term fulfillment

kvakerok_v2 · 2025-06-25T15:11:28+00:00

you can’t convince them to genuinely be happy in those relationships

"You can't make a woman happy. I've never seen a happy woman in my life. You ever catch your woman just staring at you, but ain't sayin nothin? In her head she's thinking: how did I end up with this ugly MFer? Dear Lord, strike him! Strike him now, while I'm young enough to get me someone good!" © Chris Rock.

Jephta · 2025-06-30T15:55:37+00:00

The signal that she's getting that tells her what she should expect to be able to get is very polluted with noise, though. Men who are well above what she can reasonably expect to get to commit to her will still give her the time of day just in order to sleep with her. These men will also often jump through minor hoops, such as having a discussion about whether they want marriage or kids some day, which women often take as a sign of seriousness. This, along with constantly being showered with male attention on dating apps, might lead her to develop unrealistic expectations of who she can reasonably expect to get.

Obviously, not all women are this naiive. But it's not rare at all to find ones who are.

So if a woman thinks she can convince a really hot guy who openly has 5 women that she's really special and she's the one he should be committing to, when it's obvious to anyone with a male brain that that guy doesn't intend to commit to anyone because *why would he??*, then I'd argue that it's actually in her best interest that unpopular men speak up and say "There's no way that guy is going to give up sexual variety for a long-term relationship. You should lower your standards to a man for whom that kind of thing is out of reach". That serves her interest as well, overall.

Spyro7x3 · 2025-06-30T18:09:21+00:00

I think you could because women basically go with whatever the cultural dominant idea is and feel satisfied by it. An evolutionary thing. You could get women to wear burqas and be happy if the majority of society signaled it as a good thing.

tahmkenchisbroken · 2025-06-24T14:04:20+00:00

I just want women to take accountability, really. Remember, we live in a time where women are able to choose the men they want as you guys like saying. When you're going for men out of your league and get pumped and dumped, abused, etc. because the man knows he can do better, It's nobody's fault except yours. Instead women become bitter because they couldn't get commitment from Chad and take it out on the rest of the men

FireFoxG · 2025-06-24T14:20:06+00:00

Its a pipe dream to assume they will willingly choose to lower their standards... not in an era of global validation for all but the most unfortunate women.

Thus men are just giving up because we all know where this is going.

The situation is causing a global population collapse... and a collapse of the trades(aka the bedrock of modern society).

If we men(and other women) cant convince the ladies to lower their standards to literally save the world... The mathematics of reality will force an outcome. Eventually, The Amish, a lot of Islam and other patriarchal cultures will be the only ones left, and they explicitly enforce a structure that modern women wouldn't survive in.

Edit, this is not a new situation. China and Russia has had several times where this exact problem ended up causing mass fertility issues... Rome, Egyptians, Aztecs, some native American cultures, Victorian era British, etc. Basically, any civilization that emasculated men and worshiped women... was completely fucked about 100-150 years after, either by conquest or population collapse.

Take china, for example. The late 1700s was famous for extremely wealthy business women and girl pirates during the Qing dynasty. The opium wars began in the mid 1800s and by 1912, population collapse ended the 2000 year history of dynastic rule... marking the start of the worst period in Chinese history. The guys checked out and decided to just smoke opium for a century, instead of dealing with Qing women. Mao was basically the Andrew Tate of early 20th century china, he refused the marriage with his arranged wife(he was 13yo) and hustled until he became a dictator.

SnooSprouts9046 · 2025-06-24T13:50:06+00:00

You literally have a post advising men to drop their standards when in the exact same post you said 'why would women drop their standards'. Why would I believe any of the nonsense u spew?

firetrap2 · 2025-06-24T18:48:19+00:00

You wouldn't have to convince them of anything just remove contraception. Once sex becomes consequential then people will have sex with people who demonstrate commitment. High smv men won't be able to sleep around so will have to commit removing them from the market.

smoll0d1ck0beta · 2025-06-24T14:59:35+00:00

No one is telling anyone to lower their standards. People just point out that women in particular have stupid standards that doesn’t translate to good relationships. They are also warning young men about the reality of women innate biology.

Artear · 2025-06-24T15:42:31+00:00

Women already have incredibly inflated standards, and even when they get what they want, they're still not happy. Nothing is ever good enough. Maybe women simply aren't capable of being satisfied.

b0f0s0f · 2025-06-24T17:55:07+00:00

It's not that they should lower their standards, it's that the proliferation of contraceptives and abortion and the "sexual revolution" have majorly shifted women's partner selection from a process of finding the best father for children, to finding the hottest and most exciting lay without any thought into the long term. Men will confirm to whatever women's selection criteria are, which these days is the "red pill" stuff. Women need to raise their standards, not lower them. The issue is that women aren't truly picking "no man," if they were there'd be a pressure on men to be better and meet the standard to fulfill their reproductive instinct. They are instead sleeping around casually with hot dudes and therefore selecting for traits that are terrible for healthy families and a continuation of civilization, and being a driving force for late-stage capitalism in the meantime.

WebNew9978 · 2025-06-24T15:15:25+00:00

If your point is that you can’t blame women for never picking certain men to be romantically involved with than it’s 100 billion percent fair to say that you can’t blame those certain men if they become angry at women for never being picked either. You can’t tell any of these men “hey women see you as a monster from a romance pov but hey be ok with it.” Especially if you are speaking from privilege of having a romantic life.

catdog8020 · 2025-06-24T21:23:55+00:00

In reality women would not be lowering their standards they would just be settling with someone who is looks matched with them. However due to hoeflation, it just appears that the woman are lowering their standards but in reality they are shooting way out of their league. It’s really funny and weird.

IgorXY · 2025-06-24T13:44:37+00:00

If someone thinks that they can only eat 3-star restaraunt food, convincing them to eat home made dishes will not poison them or leave them startving. They might actually like it.

Title	If the men on here somehow managed to convince all women to lower their standards, (negotiation of attraction) you can’t convince them to genuinely be happy in those relationships
Author	Cjaylyle
Upvotes	53
Comments	221
Date	June 24, 2025 1:28 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ljb4hl/if_the_men_on_here_somehow_managed_to_convince/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-the-men-on-here-somehow-managed-to-convince-all.1555451 https://theredarchive.com/post/1555451

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