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That “male privilege” though

fatboy_and_chubchub

October 12, 2017

5078 upvotes

/r/MensRights

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Post Information

Title	That “male privilege” though
Author	fatboy_and_chubchub
Upvotes	5078
Comments	795
Date	October 12, 2017 4:31 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/75y5ky/that_male_privilege_though/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/that-male-privilege-though.1174977 https://theredarchive.com/post/1174977

Comments

[–]overly_optimistic_ox 628 points629 points630 points 8 years ago (252 children) | Copy Link

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[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Men have weird definitions of "hateful."

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[–]Aeponix 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think it lessens your responsibility. Drug addicts can basically be suffering from temporary insanity. The compulsions at play can be completely irresistible without practice and treatment. Not everyone suffers from addiction to that extent, but people do horrible things because of their addictions. It doesn't make them horrible people, and it doesn't mean they can't get better.

It's difficult for society to differentiate between personal choice and compulsive behavior that is out of the person's control. I don't think that woman should necessarily be blamed for her actions. It really depends on how out of it she was. But that would apply to a man in her situation as well, and in either case, treatment would have to be mandatory.

This comment was mostly made to talk about the philosophy of the situation.

[–]errone0us 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]NaturalSelectorX 8 years ago* [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link

It does not lessen your responsibility at all.

Yeah it literally does. It's the reason that drunk drivers who kill people are charged with involuntary manslaughter instead of second degree murder. Mens rea is an important component for things like murder and assault.

But I guarantee you if she was a poor black man instead of a privileged white woman she would be in jail.

No argument there. I just think a person who stabs people because they are in a stabby mood is fundamentally different than a person who stabs someone when the ability to make decisions is impaired.

[–]KaiserTom 23 points24 points25 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah it literally does. It's the reason that drunk drivers who kill people are charged with involuntary manslaughter instead of second degree murder. Mens rea is an important component for things like murder and assault.

This is blatantly wrong. Vehicular manslaughter exists for many reasons beyond just drunk driving. And you can definitely be charged with second degree murder even if you are drunk driving. It all depends on Mens rea, just like you said. If someone kills another in anger or passion, it's second degree murder, no matter how intoxicated they are. Most of the time there is no desire to kill someone before jumping into a car and attempting to drive home, thus no Mens rea. If they do it as a result of an accident due to their negligence, such as simply driving too fast for the conditions, it's manslaughter. Being intoxicated simply tends to amplify the sentence.

[+]NaturalSelectorX 8 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

This is blatantly wrong.

Go on...

Vehicular manslaughter exists for many reasons beyond just drunk driving.

I agree completely. Drunk driving is a relevant example since we are talking about intoxication. Many drunk drivers are charged with manslaughter instead of murder, since being drunk can lessen their responsibility. In other words, it matters.

It all depends on Mens rea, just like you said.

So... I'm blatantly right? Intoxication affects mens rea, which literally can lesson your responsibility for an act under the law. I'm glad we agree. Your first sentence must be directed at someone else.

[–]KaiserTom 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]NaturalSelectorX1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]NaturalSelectorX1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But you just said that if a person's mental state is altered by drugs at the time they commit a crime that it literally lessens their responsibility and they should be charged accordingly.

Context is important. The original statement I was responding to was this

"She chose to take drugs. Then she chose to stab him. Being intoxicated is not an excuse for stabbing someone. It does not lessen your responsibility at all."

That's wrong, since being under the influence of drugs or alcohol can lessen responsibility. Perhaps the way I worded it was misleading. I didn't mean to imply that the involvement of drugs automatically reduces your sentence 100% of the time. What I'm saying is that it could, and it's not as simple as saying "you chose to take drugs, you chose to stab someone". A prosecutor and judge take that fact into consideration.

I don't understand why rape is different

Because the laws are different. I'm not espousing an ethical philosophy, I'm simply explaining the way things are. The woman who stabbed someone might get special consideration due to her mental state. That's written into law. Maybe her gender also played a part, maybe not. You still can't dismiss the fact that mental state affects assault and killing changes.

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[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

I think that violently assaulting another person warrants prison time.

[–]GettingGains 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

How do you know? Did you obtain access to all of the court documents? How did you have time to review these documents enough to make a judgment since this article was just released yesterday?

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[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

Violence is still abuse. It doesn't matter if it happened during sex or not. If a woman held you down and scratched your back and drew blood while you were crying and telling her to stop, it would be assault.

It's crazy how you have to frame it like this in order for men to have empathy towards women who have been assaulted.

[–]towingnoone 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

If she was crying and telling him to stop then it would've been a rape charge, very odd case. Personally to me sounds like the guy pissed her off in some way.

We do have empathy for women who've been assaulted just like we have empathy for the poor guy who was stabbed.

Of course men are going to be pissed of if women can stab us and get away with it. Of course we are going to be pissed off if women can have us put on the sex offenders register for, in a lot of cases, similar things they have done it us.

If a man does something it's sexual assault or attempted murder.

If a woman does something they're "too clever" to go to jail.

One of the big things about feminism was equality yet not one woman is actually championing true equality. It's shows the true nature of women how they're they aren't pushing equal rights, they're pushing women's right's and it's got to the point where they're just demanding more and more. It's crazy how men's right activists are just pushing to be treated equally.

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, obviously I'm going to be pissed off if a guy is fucking assaulting and bruising me. Are you fucking serious?

Same with the guy who got stabbed - his girlfriend must have pissed him off, right?

Also shows the true nature of men to defend violently assaulting women.

[–]towingnoone 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Both of them deserve to be in jail.

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[–]pacmatt27 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't call grabbing titty rape. I challenged you for saying it's ok because once we're in a pussy we can't control our actions. That is bullshit and if you don't know that then it's only a matter of time before you fucking rape someone.

I've had plenty of occasions of girls that would continue to bite and fuck me up when I'd tell them to stop during intercourse

So have I. It's called sexual assault and nobody cares about it if you're a male victim.

"I can't help it I do it when I get turned on".

That's not an excuse for anyone. I'm a man with quite a high libido and I get turned on real easy. Never hurt a partner. Never kept going when I was asked to stop. Not once.

But we need to stop classifying every fucking negative sexual scenario as rape.

I'm inclined to agree but what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I am a rapist if I don't stop doing something sexual when asked, women should be held to the same standard.

but to call it straight rape is extreme bro.

I didn't tho. I was calling you a potential rapist because you think it's fine to keep fucking when someone asks you to stop. It isn't.

Don't act like you never had some wild ass sex and came out black and blue and being pissed

Again, that's sexual assault. I didn't have to do anything, all my friends referred to her as the rapist for the rest of uni.

[–]VodkaKitty0 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link

He didn't get any jail time lol. Stop making shit up.

[–]Japak121 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

Maybe you shouldn't believe every shitpost /r/mensrights upvotes without doing your own research?

[–]Japak121 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

Narrow minded? Lmao you're the one believing pure bull crap just because this subreddit upvoted it.

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I don't think feminists have ever argued that they are systematically treated unfairly in courts

Feminists in the UK and USA have called to close women's prisons and divert almost all female offenders out of jail.

2016

the guardian again

2015

the telegraph

2014

2011

2007

the standard

2006

the guardian

Hillary during the 2016 campaign highlighted in a CNN op ed that the amount of women in US prisons has increased drastically (ignoring that it has increased across the board and men are still 90% of innmates) and claimed they are treated unfairly by the system. Though granted, Hillary's position was much less radical than those crazies above. And she has a point that we need to look at investigating why people offend and preventing it - just it shouldn't be solely focused on one gender is all. Huffpo had a similar article in 2016.

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Wait, are you saying a highly upvoted post on /r/MensRights is distorting the facts of something that'd otherwise just be straight up sexist bullshit? Why, I never!

[–]originalSpacePirate 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]bluexy 8 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Here let's remove my comment from the context of this thread so folk from this sub can understand. Sounds like you hurt yourself having a complex thought.

This sub pushes sexism against women as a foundational aspect of "Men's Rights." But it makes no meaningful effort to pursue or strive for men's issues. All it produces is sexism. That's its entire purpose, which is why its core userbase and moderators mostly stem from subs like T_D and other alt-right subs. It's meant to radicalize stupid kids and naive men.

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[+]gblue33 8 years ago [recovered] (62 children) | Copy Link

Yeah both people behaved badly , but the fact OP mad misrepresented the facts of the first one is why I am going to unsub. Just because she didn't get jail time doesn't mean he didn't deserve to.

[–]pacmatt27 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (61 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (60 children) | Copy Link

She also got a conviction.

[–]pacmatt27 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (59 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (58 children) | Copy Link

He also didn't get any jail time. Did you not read the articles?

[–]pacmatt27 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (55 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (54 children) | Copy Link

They both got convictions. Neither got jail time. What are you confused about?

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You don't know if he was convicted on someone's word alone. You don't have access to the court documents.

I'm aware of that you fucking spectacular twat. That's why I said "dubious" not "an incorrect verdict that I've decided with no information". What other evidence could there possibly be? Signed documents saying "I squeezed her titties after she said stop"? There are routine miscarriages of justice where sexual assault accusations are concerned. I have every right to be suspicious.

They were both charged. Neither got jail time you stupid cunt.

Lmfao. I KNOW. MY POINT IS THAT SHE SHOULD HAVE.

Lol... How can someone so utterly moronic misjudge their own ability to participate in a conversation so spectacularly. You aren't reading anything I write, just guessing at what I'm trying to say. I can't really deduce the method by which you're obscuring my points but at this point I'm certain it must be effortful.

[–]VodkaKitty0 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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He attacked and assaulted her enough to leave a bruise while she was crying and telling him to stop.

Oh no! He bruised her? What a monster! Sounds kinda like how I came back one night with a swollen lip, lacerations down my back which had bled into my underwear and a sore head from where she'd pulled my hair so hard. Sounds kinda like how my friend woke up pinned down by an absolute she-whale of a human who gagged him and refused to let him move until she'd finished raping him. Sounds kinda like my friend who used to get anally raped by his mother with a broom. Sounds kinda like that guy in the posted image who met a girl who got super high, verbally and physically abused him then stabbed him with a fucking knife. It's weird though cos none of those women are in prison and their crimes are clearly fucking worse. But yeah, a bruised tit definitely deserves a prison sentence, you absolute travesty of a human being.

What about that is not a crime?

Did I ever say it wasn't a crime? Literally, quote me saying at any point during this conversation that it isn't a crime. What I said was that it is in no way comparable to an assault with a deadly weapon. But yeah, I get it, she's a girl so her feelings matter more. I get you, you entitled wankpot.

I do find it sad, though, that men need to be taught what consent is and isn't and what assault is and isn't.

Maybe we get a bit confused because we're routinely sexually assaulted and raped but nobody cares. Maybe we're like "Oh so it's ok to hit me and force yourself on me? It's ok to verbally abuse me until I begrudgingly have sex with someone who looks like a sack of used condoms? Ok... I'll take that into consideration.". Maybe you don't understand as much as you think you do (potentially because you're an incandescent shitgiggle). Maybe we don't actually need to learn what consent is because we already know and at no point during this conversation have I said what he did was ok. I'm simply stating (and, really, I don't know how many times I can emphasise this to your estrogen-filled fucktard of a mind) that what he did is a lesser crime than a stabbing and yet he received a harsher punishment. That is wrong, that is not how justice works, that is sexist and flies in the face of what we are told by feminists about "male privilege". That is the point of this post, in case you missed it.

they need to be taught that this is wrong.

Ok, and by that logic you need to be taught that stabbing is wrong. Sit down. Let me explain this to you clearly. "Stabbing someone is very bad. Don't stab other people."... There, do you feel less like stabbing now? Now that I've been a patronising wankstain like you, do you feel less like stabbing people, love? I find it sad that women need to be taught that forcing a sharpened metal object into an innocent human being's flesh to cause pain, injury and potential death is wrong. Wot k1nd 0f a b4ckward5 matr14rchy is dis?! Toksik femininity! Cuntspreading (spread it on the train, spread it on toast, spread it on your ass and lick yourself clean of all that harmful masculinity).

Hope that clears that up for you.

[–]VodkaKitty0 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sounds kinda like how I came back one night with a swollen lip, lacerations down my back which had bled into my underwear and a sore head from where she'd pulled my hair so hard. Sounds kinda like how my friend woke up pinned down by an absolute she-whale of a human who gagged him and refused to let him move until she'd raped him. Sounds kinda like my friend who used to get anally raped by his mother with a broom. Sounds kinda like that guy in the posted image who met a girl who got super high, verbally and physically abused him then stabbed him with a fucking knife. It's weird cos none of those women are in prison. But yeah, a bruised tit definitely deserves a prison sentence, you absolute travesty of a human being.

Oh no! These poor men had sex and regretted it the next day! Better call the cops and JAIL these innocent women just because these men were ashamed they fucked a fatty!

[–]pacmatt273 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Oh no! These poor men had sex and regretted it the next day!

So, I mean you're mocking people who were violently raped now. That's the point you've reached in this thread. When you were little, did you dream about being a fat, useless cunt, who spends her time on reddit arguing with productive members of society? Did you say to yourself "I can't wait to shit on violent assault victims in order to promote my own twisted worldview. I want to make everyone exist in fear and hate, including myself, because I'm a repulsive cunt who gave up on her life when I realised nobody gives a fuck about my flabby, wasted body. My personality is garbage so I really have nothing to offer anyone except holes. People just use me when they're desperate and that's who I am now... A spunk-dumpster that real people wouldn't piss on if she were on fire." I feel like, if you did, that's a weird dream for a child to have. Maybe you should take a big step back and, once you're done fucking yourself in the face, take a good hard look at yourself and think about what you've become.

The girl I had sex with wasn't fat btw, she was a decent 6 or 7, pretty in the face, mediocre body... Only problem was she was also violent and assaulted me. I would have been pretty happy to keep banging her if she hadn't violently assaulted me. She offered me scrambled eggs in the morning and I was dead excited about that until she violently assaulted me. As it was, I ended up leaving after she fell asleep and walking home half dressed, confused and unhappy. My friend didn't "regret" having sex with a fat girl, a fat girl raped his unconscious body then pinned him down and continued raping him when he woke up. My other friend... Well yes I think it's safe to say he regrets being raped by his mother. I don't know whether she was fat at the time but I don't think it matters when you're 8 how hot someone is, they generally shouldn't be putting anything in your anal cavity.

But again, this is all besides the point... And, to your credit, I can see why you've gone off on a tangent. Your ramblings have been so thoroughly shit on throughout this conversation that you're only recourse now is to either apologise or act like a spiteful shitwhistle. So... You chose shitwhistle. Congratulations. Here's a brick, kill yourself with it. Nobody needs you and you know it.

[–]VodkaKitty0 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pacmatt273 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Man mocking a woman who was violently assaulted - completely and totally okay

Quote where I mocked her. Quote the exact sentences where I mocked her. You keep saying I said things then fail to offer quotations when I ask for them.

Here, allow me:

Oh no! He bruised her? What a monster!

Oh. No. He bruised her? What a monster!

So... I added a little emphasis there because I feel like what you didn't understand was that I was saying his crime isn't particularly significant when compared to the three violent sexual assaults me and my peers have experienced or the violent assault with a deadly weapon the man in the image experienced. Now, none of the women who committed those crimes are in prison. Only one received a charge. But you're arguing that a man (who committed lesser crimes than all those women) should be in prison, while those women should not? Explain your justification for that. Slowly, because I can bet it's gonna be a hateful cocktail of sexist word-vomit (if an explanation is forthcoming at all).

FIRST OF ALL HOW DARE U!!! HOW DARE U DO SOMETHING SO HORRIBLE!!! HAVE SUM SIMPATHY FOR THE OPPOSITE SECKS U EVIL FEMALE U FAT USELESS KUNT KUM DUMPSTUR!!! GO KIL URSELF BETCH!! IM SO ANGRY RIHGT NOW !!! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

So you don't deny that you're a fat, useless cunt of a cum dumpster?

Srsly tho, kys.

[–]VodkaKitty1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pacmatt273 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're minimizing her assault as him just "grabbing her tits too hard" and implying he's not a monster for that.

No, I'm describing what he did (grabbing his sexual partner's tits too hard) and comparing it to similar or worse cases of violent assault. I'm telling you that there are women who have committed worse crimes who are not in prison and have received no charges. You have no problem with that yet seem to have a problem with this guy. Explain yourself.

Similarly, it sucks that you and your friends regretted fucking a fatty

Already covered this, cunt. Cool it with the wishful thinking, I know you're desperate but I won't fuck you.

that doesn't mean we need to throw them in jail

You won't throw them in jail despite advocating jail time for a man who did less than they did? Explain it to me.

A woman had sex with a man who was sleeping?? A woman got a little too rough with a man in bed and gave you a swollen lip?

So a bruise is monstrous but raping an unconscious person, causing someone to bleed so profusely they stain their underwear, causing facial swelling and fucking a child with a broom are all fine by you? Cool. Cool. Who's minimising shit now?

I never said those things.

So you believe this woman should be in jail and the man should too? I mean, I really don't care what happens to that man as long as it is proportional to the crime. If he is sent to jail, she should be executed. If he is charged, she should be sent to prison. Her crime was worse, her punishment should be worse. The only reason it wasn't is because she's a woman.

So if you're not disputing that she should be in jail, you have no argument? Unless your argument is that what he did was comparable or worse?

Darling, kitty. Regardless. This argument has run its course. You're backed into a corner now where one option makes you a psychopath (believing that stabbing a man is less of a crime than bruising a woman) or no argument at all... In either case you can shout into the void because I've already won.

[–]VodkaKitty1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, I'm describing what he did (grabbing his sexual partner's tits too hard) and comparing it to legitimate cases of violent assault.

What? Like how your girlfriend bit your lip too hard and now that's somehow assault? LOL. You dumb cunt. Men like it when you play rough with them. How was she supposed to know it went too far?

You won't throw them in jail despite advocating jail time for a man who did less than they did? Explain it to me.

If you don't think the man should be in jail for assaulting this woman, then no, these women should not be in jail for "assaulting" these men.

So a bruise is monstrous but raping an unconscious person, causing someone to bleed so profusely they stain their underwear, causing facial swelling and fucking a child with a broom are all fine by you? Cool. Cool. Who's minimising shit now?

Me. Because you minimized women being violently assaulted. It doesn't feel so good when the tables are turned on you, now does it?

So you believe this woman should be in jail and the man should too? I mean, I really don't care what happens to that man as long as it is proportional to the crime. If he is sent to jail, she should be executed. If he is charged, she should be sent to prison. Her crime was worse, her punishment should be worse. The only reason it wasn't is because she's a woman.

He wasn't sent to jail lmao.

Darling, kitty. Regardless. This argument has run its course. You're backed into a corner now where one option makes you a psychopath (believing that stabbing a man is less of a crime than bruising a woman) or no argument at all... In either case you can shout into the void because I've already won.

Stabbing and sexual assault are both equal crimes.

[–]pacmatt273 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What? Like how your girlfriend bit your lip too hard and now that's somehow assault?

No, like how a girl (not my girlfriend, thank christ), bit my lip so hard that it bled and swelled up, clawed my back so bad that I was covered in blood and hit me in the head. Like how someone took advantage of me and assaulted me to the point that my friends said "If you were a girl, we'd be calling the police" when I got back. I'd say that was on a similar level to this titty-grope business, but worse. Then you have the other two examples of a violent assault of an incapacitated person and a minor. And you say "that's somehow assault". No, bitch, they're all assault and all of the ones I mentioned are once than the one posted by OP. That perpetrator is charged, none of the others are.

Men like it when you play rough with them. How was she supposed to know it went too far?

Usually you can tell when the person is saying "Please stop it, you're hurting me". In fact, I've had to say this to multiple women on multiple occasions... Y'no what the response is, every single time? "I can't help it." But yeah, men need to be taught not to rape, women understand it perfectly.

If you don't think the man should be in jail for assaulting this woman, then no, these women should not be in jail for "assaulting" these men.

Right. But you think only the man should be punished whereas I think they all should. Lol... I'm not the one with the double-standard here, you are.

Me. Because you minimized women being violently assaulted. It doesn't feel so good when the tables are turned on you, now does it?

First, offering a comparison in which worse crimes are committed but go unpunished is not mockery. That man is hardly a monster, he's an asshole. The girl who assaulted me isn't a monster, she's an asshole. She doesn't deserve to go to prison, neither does this guy. Second, I factually described my understanding of the event. You flat out made shit up to discredit the argument, you included statements with zero evidence to make your point appear stronger. You're a liar and a fucking psychopath. Thirdly, I don't really care if you try to mock me, know why?

You're backed into a corner now where one option makes you a psychopath (believing that stabbing a man is less of a crime than bruising a woman) or no argument at all... In either case you can shout into the void because I've already won.

[–]VodkaKitty0 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]theothermod[M] [score hidden] 8 years ago stickied comment (0 children) | Copy Link

Hello and welcome to /r/MensRights. If you are not a subscriber, please take a moment to understand what you are seeing.

This subreddit is about the issues faced by men in our society. Sometimes it's the sensationalist headlines that make it to the front page, but they don't necessarily represent typical posts.

We welcome healthy debate and you won't be banned merely for disagreement. It is common here to reject feminist ideology, but that doesn't mean we hate women or oppose equal rights. Rather, we seek to expand those equal rights to include men.

These are some of the best discussions we've had. There is also a documentary made by a feminist who investigated our movement. If you want to know more about the issues we are concerned with, try these books: The War Against Boys by Christina Hoff Sommers or The Myth of Male Power by Warren Farrell.

Thank you for being open minded.

[+][deleted] 8 years ago [recovered] (280 children) | Copy Link

sweet jesus the first one is real. https://www.rt.com/uk/406384-tinder-indecent-assault-sex/

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The magistrate stated that he knew that she was not consenting to the abuse.

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[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (14 children) | Copy Link

He was found guilty in a court of law. End of story. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Or is it "men are always innocent even after being proven guilty"?

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If you read the link, she showed signs of mental instability beyond violent behaviour (turning the knife on herself after attacking him) and the offence the prosecutor had chosen had a scale that went far beyond the injuries that the man sustained. If he had received life-threatening injuries then she would have had a harder sentence, but he didn't, and that was part of the scale used.

Sorry, when you try to kill someone, the fact that you failed isn't mitigation.

Yes, women are charged for much lower crimes when they commit a crime.

If you can find a similar case involving a man who was sent to prison, it would have relevance.

Are you seriously joking here?

But you can't dismiss a case based on a trend you've seen in other cases, without considering the facts of the single case.

That's just it, the trend we're seeing in cases is that police officers, prosecutors, and judges, find reasons to not arrest women (when they would arrest a man), to not charge women (when they would charge a man), to charge women with lesser crimes than they would charge a man, and to not give them custodial sentences.

The fact that they were able to find reasons isn't bucking the trend... THAT IS THE TREND.

[–]blue_strat0 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sorry, when you try to kill someone, the fact that you failed isn't mitigation.

If the charge had been attempted murder, but it wasn't, probably because there was no evidence to suggest she had a) meant to kill rather than harm him, nor b) been reasonably able to do so if she had meant to kill him. A man with no arms can want to stab someone to death, but since he can't actually do that, he wouldn't be prosecuted for the offence if he made what attempt he could.

Are you seriously joking here?

Not at all. If you can't actually find an example of something you think you know, then I guess you don't actually know it. If you depend on statistics then you look a fool when they change.

That's just it, the trend we're seeing in cases is that police officers, prosecutors, and judges, find reasons to not arrest women (when they would arrest a man), to not charge women (when they would charge a man), to charge women with lesser crimes than they would charge a man, and to not give them custodial sentences.

This sub may be about trends, but the post is not, it cites two specific examples. You need to tell the difference between the two.

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[+]GettingGains 8 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Except there is no EVIDENCE she asked him to stop. To be guilty you need beyond reasonable doubt. Her word versus his word does not convict him of a crime.

[–]errone0us 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]GettingGains1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]GettingGains1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

so really the only thing we can do is look at the evidence at hand.

I agree. And, in this situation, the only evidence is "he-said she-said". Bruising someone's breasts is not a crime as far as I know. The crime is doing it without consent.

As such, the only evidence that matters is the matter of consent. And, as far as I am aware, there is no balance of evidence against consent. She said she did not give consent. He said (assumedly) that she did. This nullifies it as neither person's testimony is inherently more credible than the other.

That is why the only way to build any case, in my view, is looking at sexual history. If she can bring in some ex-boyfriends that testify she does not like rough sex or like her breasts touched, then we are getting somewhere. However, if her sexual history shows she loves to be slapped around and loves her breasts squeezed, then there is no case here. And of course, even better evidence, would be written communications between parties (ex-boyfriends, this guy, her friends).

Only an analysis of her sexual past can shed any right on this. And, unfortunately, feminists have fought very hard to make sexual past not submittable evidence. So, in my view, it is impossible to find this guy guilty without that analysis (and if I was on the jury I would jury nullify it).

[–]errone0us 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

You see the thing here is, even if she consented and he grabbed her breasts and bruised them, he could still be arrested, it's happened before. Things that involve harming other people, whether or not you have consent, are on a risky line between legal and illegal. Here is a case that really exemplifies this.

So this guy has consensual BDSM sex with a girl, but she decides for some reason to report him to the police. The police say that her case has no merit, and basically told her to fuck off. Unfortunately, the sex-crime division head there, decided to press charges after speaking to this girl.

He was convicted and sentenced to 15 years to life for kidnapping, sexual abuse and assault. In prison a prisoner actually attacked him and tried to stab his neck, presumably because he was a sex offender. Later on he was released, after 20 months in prison.

The thing is though, this wasn't ever her first time doing this, here is a quote from her grandmother

Rzucek's grandmother, Fay Webster, related to news media how her granddaughter had a notorious history of lying and fabricating: "We know her well, and we know what she said about Oliver was just another of her fabrications. She has made false accusations before, and this is another one of them," Webster claimed. She went on to describe her granddaughter as "a very cold person," saying that Rzucek had "caused a lot of trouble in other people's lives by her lying." "Enough is enough," she added. "I think the Manhattan District Attorney's Office should drop the case."

EDIT: The sad thing is, after this he tried to sue the city for the damage the false allegations had on his reputation, and because the prosecutors KNEW she had lied about rape before, but it was dismissed and he got NOTHING for his 20 months in jail, the time and money he spent, all the time in college he missed, or money he would have had. He did end up completing his doctorate in microbiology, with honors, for what it's worth.

[–]NefariouslySly 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Was it a fact that the stabber asked his girlfriend to stop stabbing him?

[–]NefariouslySly 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

He wasn't stabbed to death lol. Once again, someone didn't read the article.

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[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link

He was found guilty in a court of law. End of story. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Or is it "men are always innocent even after being proven guilty"?

[–]justin_says 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Well, no, plenty of men in this thread think that he shouldn't have gotten any punishment at all. He got off very light, no jail time at all for his violent assault. Maybe the woman who "stabbed" her boyfriend is innocent as well and she was wrongly convicted.

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[–]VodkaKitty1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]justin_says 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I totally agree. Unfortunately, most people here believe that the man should not be jailed.

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[–]ElfmanLV 27 points28 points29 points 8 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[+]Celda -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

Yup, the woman wanted McDonald's to pay for her medical bills, which was a relatively small amount.

McDonald's has a very strong repertoire of legal advisors and they still lost the suit, it isn't a result of some silly coincidence or bad call from the judge.

I don't give a fuck what the the judge thinks or what legal statute was used to justify it.

As long as the facts remain - and I believe they are not contested - then the decision was wrong.

No one should be punished for serving a very hot drink (unless there is some negligence like having a flimsy cup that is likely to break or leak), because there is nothing wrong with doing so.

And if someone spills a very hot drink on themselves - then it's not a problem (legally speaking) for them to be injured, even injured badly.

That is what's supposed to happen if you spill a very hot drink on yourself.

[–]ElfmanLV 20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

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If the warning signs are something the company is supposed to do, and they don't do it, that is negligence.

No, it's not.

The warning signs don't change anything in reality.

It'd be one thing if people didn't know the coffee was hot, and the signs were needed to inform people.

But that's not the case.

Like yourself, I'm sure McDonald's thought they were better than everyone, and that all their customers were dumb and it's their own fault if they burn themselves, but it's also why they lost. Hopefully you can at least reflect on that, despite what you believe.

It's not about belief.

It's about the facts, and what rights do you think people have.

We all know the facts.

The only question is whether people should, or should not, have the right to serve very hot drinks such that people would get injured (perhaps badly so) if they spilled it on them.

And I am very disturbed by the fact that so many people think that such a right should be taken away, for such a poor reason.

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[–]Celda-3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They don’t have the right to serve coffee at 180-190 degrees that will give third degree burns on contact because they want to save a few cents on making new pots.

They should. It's wrong to take away someone's rights without good reason.

If I want to serve drinks at close to boiling temperature, that should be my right.

Most everyone has spilled more than a few drops of coffee on themselves, it doesn’t make them stupid.

No, it doesn't.

But spilling a few drops of coffee won't give you serious injuries, even at the temperatures McDonald's had.

Spilling an entire cup would - but that's fine, because spilling an entire cup of a hot drink on yourself is supposed to injure you.

It's disgusting to me that people think it's ok to take away someone's rights because of other people's stupidity.

[–]MyCommentingOne12 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]errone0us 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Celda, I don't think you understand the full situation here, and it's extremely shady.

-McDonalds at the time, was running a special for free coffee refills, but you couldn't leave and come back, you had to consume the coffee in one visit. McDonalds had previously done a study and to find how hot they had to make the coffee so that people couldn't actually consume it in one setting, in a reasonable amount of time, so that people would leave without getting a refill. Serving coffee this hot a policy of theirs, and people were constantly getting severe burns from it.

-They were serving the coffee above the standard serving temperature of 165-185. Part of the issue here is that reasonable people did not expect that the coffee fresh from brewing and held at brewing temperature could cause such deep-tissue burns. Since the coffee is sold as a product on the go, and the company knew that it was being used for immediate consumption, the gross negligence claim that was filed stands strong. By not engaging in any safety testing, serving in non-rigid containers (do you remember the old soft Styrofoam cups?), and repeating service after numerous claims of injury had been settled in the previous years, McDonald's showed a pattern of callous indifference. TL;DR - They were serving a product meant for immediate consumption, far more hot that standard serving temperature, in a flimsy container.

-All the woman wanted to sue for is her medical bills, and what she lost from not being able to work because she was in the hospital. She asked McDonalds to settle for just what she needed for her medical bills ($20,000), but McDonalds only offered her $800, and refused to give any more. After this she sought an attorney, and in court, McDonalds gross negligence was shown, and they were told to pay her 3 days worth of coffee sales for McDonalds, which was millions of dollars. The amount they had to pay her was later reduced to $640,000.

[–]Dancing_Anatolia 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Celda 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Dancing_Anatolia 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (15 children) | Copy Link

So? McDonald's has the right to serve a hot drink - even close to boiling temperatures - if they want.

No they don't. They violated health standards. Is this a fucking joke? Hahaha come on dude you are obviously not a liar. The whole crux of the case was that McDonald's was serving coffee that violated health standards.

[–]Celda 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link

It is dangerous to serve a very hot drink.

[–]Celda 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

If the gun does not meet safety regulations, then yes, they are illegal.

[–]Celda 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]VodkaKitty1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]blackxxwolf3 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

He was found guilty in a court of law.

[–]blackxxwolf3 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

How do you know it was word of mouth? I'm curious - how were you able to obtain documentation of all the evidence used in this court case and combed it over so quickly when this article was just released yesterday?

[–]blackxxwolf31 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]VodkaKitty2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]errone0us 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]errone0us 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]kursdragon 8 years ago [recovered] (37 children) | Copy Link

There's a difference between touching breasts and causing bruising bro

[–]AgentSkidMarks 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (35 children) | Copy Link

Yes, if you hold someone down and assault them until they're bruised while they're crying and telling you to stop, you should be in jail.

What the fuck is wrong with you? Are men this completely devoid of empathy?

[–]AgentSkidMarks 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (33 children) | Copy Link

Yes it did. Do you need a link to the article?

[–]AgentSkidMarks 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (31 children) | Copy Link

So why are you denying that those things were in the article?

[–]AgentSkidMarks3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]PM_me_nicetits -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BushDidSixtyNine11 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Good. He should be. If you hold someone down and assault them until they're bruised while they're crying and telling you to stop, you should be jailed.

[–]AshenIntensity 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]killerbake 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thwml 40 points41 points42 points 8 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (16 children) | Copy Link

If you hold someone down and assault them until they're bruised while they're crying and telling you to stop, you should be jailed.

[–]jesuswithdreads 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

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[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol I love how this is being downvoted. It's crazy how men support assaulting women.

[–]thwml 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]EricAllonde 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I know the case. She claimed she had been a victim of DV for years, yet she'd never reported that fact to anyone, had no injuries and all of their friends and work colleagues thought their relationship was perfectly fine.

Yet the court accepted the DV claim at face value and gave her a very light sentence - a couple of years.

No one tried to address the question of, "If she was a terrified victim of DV, why didn't she just walk out of the house while he was asleep and go for help? Why did she have to kill him in his sleep?"

Surely it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the couple had recently had an affair with another woman, he'd filmed their threesomes and she was worried that he'd show the video footage to some of their work colleagues?

The icing on the cake was this:

The woman and her husband were both from Sri Lanka. In Australia, the normal procedure when a foreign national is convicted of a serious crime is: their Australian visa is cancelled while they're in prison, and when their sentence is over they are deported back to their home country.

In this woman's case, victims groups lobbied the minister to make an exception for her. He caved in and granted her permanent residency. So now we have a murderer who only served 2 years or so and we're letting her stay in the country as a reward. Just great.

[–][deleted] 114 points115 points116 points 8 years ago (227 children) | Copy Link

[–]Haha71687 106 points107 points108 points 8 years ago (200 children) | Copy Link

[–]PurplePickel 20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]GettingGains 8 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Look up statue of limitations in your jurisdiction and file rape charges ASAP

[–]pacmatt27 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]serenitybyjann 136 points137 points138 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

In the article, she was crying and telling him to stop. What's the issue?

[–]serenitybyjann 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]VodkaKitty0 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 66 points67 points68 points 8 years ago (171 children) | Copy Link

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[+]Aivias 8 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

You:

Touching her boobs after being asked to stop makes it sexual assault

Him:

I asked her to be careful with her teeth and she still did it

You:

...its a grey area

Fuck you man. You instantly changed to it being clear cut sexual assault to 'grey areas' because you were confronted with a replica scenario which you werent able to justify. Youre an apologist and have no conviction.

[+]VodkaKitty 8 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

He doesn't give a fuck lol. Us women know that very large numbers of men support raping and assaulting women and don't see an issue with it.

[–]fengpi 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]VodkaKitty1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points30 points 8 years ago (125 children) | Copy Link

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[–]nybo 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (64 children) | Copy Link

[–]_Sitty_Shoonerism_ 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (63 children) | Copy Link

If you're not drugged and the person is not forcing you then yes you gave a free pass to all intimate touching if you already gave consent for sex. If you don't like it then leave. You have free will. You can't retroactively call it assault because you feel like you were "in between" a place where the touching was annoying but NOT annoying enough to get up and leave.

It's like getting in a boxing match with a boxer and saying "I don't like you punching that hard hold back" but he continues to hit you just as hard and you willfully stay in the fight even after you know he's continuing to hit that hard. That in absolutely no way constitutes physical assault because he "didn't stop." You choose to continue an activity with a jerk who didn't listen to you. It's your fault and a judge would laugh at you for saying you're the victim.

[–]nybo6 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]_Sitty_Shoonerism_3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

She was crying and telling him to stop, and he didn't. Is that not assault to you?

"It's weird how u/VodkaKitty is prone to just make up lies left and right...." Didn't say she was crying during. You're making that up because you instinctively read into a story from the perspective men are evil and think this man would continue to have sex with her while she's sobbing her eyes out. Unbelievable. and yet accuse me of lying. Pathetic.

And even if he had kept going, that's still assault. How many times does a woman have to say no for something to be rape? Every thrust? Every two seconds? Every minute?

He had "kept going." You must be too stupid for the basic reading comprehension needed to understand the quote I gave which said "repeatedly grabbing the woman's breasts . . . while the couple had intercourse"

So you admit you were wrong earlier and it was rape? She said no but he kept going.... Unlessssssss she actually was consenting to the "rough grabby" sex after she said "don't grab," in which case you're just wrong about the first thing you said instead of all of it.

How long have you been raping women?

Invalid question because you don't know the definition of rape. You probably think a man sneezing towards a woman without asking permission is rape.

[–]VodkaKitty1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]_Sitty_Shoonerism_5 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]VodkaKitty-1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]_Sitty_Shoonerism_5 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Great you posted exactly what I knew you were going to post and what I already read. Now to the details of why you're wrong:

grabbing at the victim’s breasts “really hard” to the point that the victim started crying.

"To the point" does not imply it continued afterwards. I can run "to the point" I pass out. Does that mean I ran after I passed out? Of fucking course not. I could have stirred heated eggs "to the point" that they started coagulating. Does that imply I stirred them after they started coagulating? Of fucking course not. It's open to anyone's guess if he did act aggressive after she started crying. Saying the article says he grabbed her breasts while she was crying is straight up lying. You cannot determine that from the information given. He grabbed her breasts "to the point" she started crying and then we don't know what happened after that.

Now take your lack of reading comprehension and misandry somewhere else.

[–]VodkaKitty0 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]_Sitty_Shoonerism_3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

hahaha awwww how cute. push the goalpost sweety. You were wrong about "crying during," I proved this, and now you're trying to distract from you being wrong with the sentiment "well he was found guilty anyway and that's all that matters".

You read into the statement thinking he was aggressive WHILE she was crying because you have a mental sickness and hate men. Thats all. There is no way to interpret that he was aggressive "while she was crying" given the information but you happily did anyway. You're like racist bigot who thinks black people are always guilty no matter what so your mind tricks you into rejecting any objectivity. Gosh I hope morons like you are never on a jury dealing with a male: he'll be guilty no matter what in your mind.

There is no reason to think he was aggressive after she started crying other than the wishful thinking that comes from your misandrist, sexist bigotry. Now piss off back to your safe spaces where the hatred of men is tolerated.

God damn men are so fucking stupid holy shit. It's like trying to explain logic to a child.

haha you are way too dumb (as well as sexist, misandrist, illiterate and bigoted) to explain or teach anything to children, especially logic.

[–]VodkaKitty-1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

LMAO you are literally such a dumb brute that you can't figure out that the people who SAW ALL THE EVIDENCE knew enough to convict this man. It doesn't matter how the article worded it- the people who LISTENED TO THE ACTUAL TESTIMONIES heard it and determined that he was guilty.

You know how infants don't understand that an object doesn't disappear just because it's hidden behind something? That's kind of the level that men's brains are at. They don't understand that the article doesn't contain every single piece of evidence in the case and doesn't have transcripts of the testimonies, but just because an article didn't report on the testimony doesn't mean it didn't happen. But because you are such a literal dumb cunt, you focus on semantics of the way the author worded the article instead of realizing that the people who convicted this monstrous male ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT HAPPENED.

But you're a man, of course you're going to support sexual assault. That's how all men are. :) just fucking dumb rapists.

[–]pacmatt272 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're a woman, so your stupid fucking opinions don't matter.

That seems the appropriate level of ignorant sexism required to respond to your arguments.

Don't respond to her, /u/_ShittyShoonerism. It's not necessary. She's been posting bile all over this article and anywhere else on reddit that she'll be tolerated. She's a sad, pathetic human being who has no value in life and thrives on hate (because she warrants nothing else). A pathetic, insecure little turd who desperately wants to be pretty but, sadly, fucking isn't.

"Pls help me understand make up, reddit! It's hard being a fat, minging little hatebeast and I want somebody to love me but nobody does. I beat my boyfriend and now I need make up tips to cover his poor, Indian black eye. I hope he doesn't leave me for it, because god knows he's the only one desperate enough to care about me!"

[–]VodkaKitty-2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]pacmatt271 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I actually spend my free time finding out exactly who reddit users are and raping them to death when they go to bed at night.

But like... Anyway... Let's just take a step back for a moment and chill. Let's pretend we're both normal human beings. Obviously neither of us believes that's true. You think I'm a rape-monster (despite admitting that I have actually been raped and attesting to the fact that whenever a partner has told me to stop doing something, I have). I think you're a sexist psychopath who has a twisted worldview and no empathy for men whatsoever. Let's just plop that on the table there. We both believe that about each other and that's obvious, yeah? Might as well admit it. Now... Let's pretend that isn't true for a second.

I'm gonna be chill and actually try to understand you. That's what you want from all this, I think. You trawl around gender-based subreddits and get real angry at guys. You say sexist things and you get really, really angry about rape. Rape is bad, I get that. So... I'm gonna level with you and try to help you understand me, then I'm gonna say what I know about you and ask you to correct me, ok? Sounds reasonable right. At the very least this is your best chance to have someone hear you, because the way you're behaving elsewhere in this sub, people are just gonna shut down and ignore you.

Ok, so I'm a fairly decent guy. Spend my work life helping people, spend my personal life being there for those around me. I have my flaws but none of them include being sexually coercive or abusive. I know what consent is, I have to know because part of my job is identifying and helping victims of sexual abuse. Ok? That's my job. You don't have to think I'm good at my job but I probably wouldn't still be in it if I didn't understand such fundamental parts of it. I might be shit at it, maybe I'm a sekrit rapist. Chances are low, however, and there's no way to tell so it doesn't matter.

So why am I on this sub? Why am I defending this post? As a man I have seen and experienced inequality comparable to, and beyond, that faced by women. I have experienced violent and non-violent verbal, physical and sexual assault. Nobody has defended me, protected me or punished my abusers. I once ran to a pair of female police officers while my violent girlfriend was chasing me and asked them to help me. They sneered at me, laughed, and told me to take her home with me. That, on its own, would be bad enough... But that sort of thing is commonplace for men and is one example of hundreds that I could give you. A lot of us are getting tired of being treated like rapists, monsters and brutes for doing less than what we have experienced without reprisal. We're told that our very way of being is toxic, that we are predators, that something in us is wrong... All the while being conditioned and forced (primarily by women) to ignore our own needs, to hide our emotions and to sacrifice what little we have for others... All the while being taken advantage of.

That's what I see... That's what I hear. That's where I'm coming from. I don't blame women for this, even though it might sound that way. I blame our culture and I blame what feminism has become. I used to be a feminist but it has changed and become warped and ugly. Our culture has become warped and ugly.

Ok... So... You might disagree with me. I get that. What you can't disagree with, however, and what you will have difficulty understanding, is male experiences. You aren't male and I doubt you've spent enough time around enough men to understand some of these things in depth. I'm giving you an opportunity to understand that, if you'd like to take it. I spend most of my days around entirely women. Have done for ten years. Have spoken in depth about these issues and have extensive personal and professional experience trying to help people (men and women, but mostly women) deal with these sorts of issues.

Now... What I know of you... You seem like someone who's been hurt pretty bad by men or has seen people who have. You paint us as very frightening individuals, all the while pretending not to be afraid of us. We're big, we're loud, we're strong, we're scary. If we decide to be aggressive it's pretty fucking horrible. I know that and I'm a 6'5" man. I am scared by other men sometimes. I'm not a man who scares easily but an angry man is fucking threatening. Now, rest on that for a moment... I'm that big and I'm frightened by other men sometimes. I dwarf most men, why should I be scared?

You seem to want men to understand that rape is wrong, perhaps to protect others from what you or those close to you have experienced. Understandable goal, admirable even. However, do you really think this is the best way to do it? You are antagonistic and abusive, even when people have not treated you that way. You're openly hostile on every sub I have seen you comment. I can understand anger, even rage, at this subject... But how closely does that align with your intention? Do you really think you're going to achieve your goal? The only goal you can currently achieve by your behaviour is convincing people of your antithesis... People hate you on here. Genuinely hate you. Do you think they're going to listen to what you're saying? I hate you and I don't hate people easily. That's not meant as an insult, but an illustration of what your behaviour is causing in the minds of others. The more I speak to you the less I agree with your opinion. I can feel myself growing more hateful towards women because you're so hateful towards men. That's why I wanted to take this step back because that's not who I am. That's not what I want for myself.

If this is what you want, if you want people to hate you, if you want people to become more angry, more convinced of everything you stand against... Please continue. If you don't want that, if you want to live in a world where men and women are both treated with compassion and care, then please... Please, for the love of god, take a step back. A man is standing here, trying to understand you, trying to empathise with you. Let go of whatever it is that has made you so angry for a second and understand that most people, people - not just men, are human. They try their best and sometimes make mistakes.

You can achieve your goal, whatever it is, much better if you understand those against which you stand. You hate people on here... That much is obvious. Do you know why we are so opposed to your ideals? Do you know what we have experienced? If you did, maybe you'd know we're not so different. Like many people here, I'm not on this subreddit because I hate women. I'm not on here because I believe women face no inequality. I'm on here because men have quietly accepted inequality for a long time... A long, long time. We did because women had lots of inequalities too. Now women want equality and they are blaming average men for it, when average men have little power to change it... When average men are subject to the inverse of those inequalities.

I don't think you really believe only women are capable of being victims of abuse. You're not stupid. You have behaved stupidly on here but I don't really think you are. You're getting shit on by lots of different people so you're lashing out. If you knew the abuses a lot of these men have suffered at the hands of women... If you took a moment to let that sink in and wash over you... You'd understand that this isn't a men vs women issue. This isn't an issue of male stupidity. Men can do evil things, they can hurt women beyond belief. Women can also do evil things and hurt men beyond belief. People can do evil things. People. Evil is not restricted to gender and men and women are more alike than you realise.

Please take this opportunity to explore the issue a little, with someone who would like to talk. The alternative is that you have wasted your time here and achieved nothing.

Tl;dr: There isn't one. Please read it. I think it's important.

[–]_Sitty_Shoonerism_1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Again you're just moving the goalpost and exposing your hatred and stereotyping of men more and more, that's why I'm still responding; to expose you to everyone else how much you hate and stereotype men :). It's actually been amusingly simple to expose your hatred. You don't even know if I'm a male but you think I fall into your evil stereotype of men that exists in your head therefore I must be a male. It's so obvious how you think.

Anyway. I don't know the specific evidence of the trial, maybe the sentence was warranted, maybe not, although objectively reading the article and taking it at it's word the sentence does appears overblown.

The only thing I know for certain is that you are spreading lies saying she was grabbed after she started crying and the personality trait of "default to assuming the worse behavior in men" is endemic in society. I know this because ignorant pieces of scum like you say things like "That's how all men are :) just fucking dumb rapists" and some of the people on the jury likely shared your disgusting sentiment.

You're basically a living case study on unrecognized discriminatory thought processes against men, and reading your drivel has been equally amusing as it's been disturbing.

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I didn't dodge anything. You cherry picked a microcosm of reddit as your example, you absolute moron, after you already changed the subject and intentionally dodged 5 times when I asked the question. The answer to the question you refuse to answer, which you and I both already know the answer to, will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are inherently bias. That's why you laughably keep refusing to answer such an utterly simple and obvious question. You are absolutely no different than a person who says "all blacks are criminals" when you say "all men are rapists." Therefor you have no authority to say this thread is full of men who support abuse because YOUR INTEPRETATION IS BIAS you misandrist piece of shit.

Fortunately, children like you won't be able to spew your hateful drivel much longer. There's going to be major changes to title IX that codify the common sense that saying "teaching men not to rape" is blatantly a 14th amendment and civil rights act violation and children like you will be powerless to stop it. You'll be cast out as the hateful misandrist like you are from any place you try to spout that bias drivel that "men need to be taught" anything because obviously it's pure discrimination. Saying "men need to be taught not to rape" is no different than saying "muslims need to be taught not to rape" ie hateful and bigoted just like you. It's fall-on-the-floor laughing that you can't even see something so simple.

Now answer the question.

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Despite the woman consenting to sexual intercourse, Philip Queree, 37, was found guilty of indecent assault after reportedly grabbing at the victim’s breasts “really hard” to the point that the victim started crying and was in pain.

The victim, who said she was left bruised after the encounter, accused the then-trainee doctor of using “excessive force” after she had explicitly told him not to touch her breasts

At some point you can use logic to determine intent without explicit statement from the party. Continuing to hurt someone while they're crying and telling you to stop makes for intent imo.

And while I disagree with your example, I can't really argue what you consider to be a matter of legal implication since it's your opinion and you have every right to have one. But let's make your example more similar to this case. The girl is using teeth, you're telling not to do so and then ask her to stop blowing you, she continues to blow you and is rough enough to make cause bite marks that bleed all the while you're in tears from the pain. Is that simple inconsideration in your opinion?

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Where in the title or my comments is rape mentioned? This is about sexual assault, rape is a type of sexual assault, but not all sexual assault is rape. And no, I haven't raped anyone in my life if we're going by the legal definition of rape.

Despite the woman consenting to sexual intercourse, Philip Queree, 37, was found guilty of indecent assault after reportedly grabbing at the victim’s breasts “really hard” to the point that the victim started crying and was in pain.

The victim, who said she was left bruised after the encounter, accused the then-trainee doctor of using “excessive force” after she had explicitly told him not to touch her breasts

This is from the article OP has mentioned. How exactly is that not sexual assault? If hurting someone to the point they're crying and telling you to stop and still continuing to do so isn't assault then what is?

You should really learn to pick your battles buddy. What are you gaining by defending a shit head, and yes that's what I'll call anyone who intentionally harms someone else and couldn't bother to care.

[–]ElfmanLV3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Nightwing3002 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What he did counts as sexual assault. And you're misunderstanding the situation, roughing her up initially can be considered a crime of passion, but ignoring her crying and telling him to stop makes this simple sexual assaults without any defenses available to him. And I doubt he was sentenced simply on the plaintiff's word. The doctor's report, bruise marks and doctor's testimony would surely play a part. Plus the guy didn't even go to jail. If being on the sex offender's list all the punishment he's getting, he's getting off easy.

Let's reverse the situation, if a girl's blowing you and uses teeth. You don't like and tell her to stop, she goes on anyway and draws blood and severely damages your junk to the point you're in tears from the pain. You don't think she should be charged for it? The point you should be fighting for is similar sentence for both cases, not lighter sentence for the guy. He's a shitty guy who doesnt care about other people's wellbeing. Do you really wanna live in a world where people can do that without any real consequences?

[–]ElfmanLV2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'd like to think that consequences are equal and comparisons also be made equal. Men don't have breasts, and attempted genital mutilation really isn't par to bruising breasts. If the girl said to use some teeth while the man is going down on her, and he rips off a piece of labia, yeah I'd say that's fucking assault, and there is a comparison to be made for male genitalia. There is no disputable pleasure arisen from that. But...bruised breasts is such a grey area. What about bruised buttocks? Arguably a very sexual area for most. Are people going to jail for spanking their partner "a little too hard" now? Where do we draw the line of sexual liberty and exploration to justice served pedantics? Again, if a hetero couple spank each other and have the same bruises, is the man and woman both going to have the same sentence? Or is the woman's word more believable in court just because?

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Yeah I can attest to the only missionary thing being false. As for BDSM, that's an entirely different thing and I'd suggest making sure there's proof of agreement to it before you engage in such activities(messages mails or whatever).

However what does this have to do with the case though? And why are you comparing cause harm to someone who's pleading with the offender to stop hurting her which he ignores to nicks and dents?

There are shitty women around who do shitty things and lie about sex. This case isn't one of them, this women agreed to having consensual sex with the guy, who assaulted her during the activity. She even told him to stop hurting her, which he ignored so it's not like this came out of the blue for the guy and everything was hunky dory before.

I'm sure there are a vast number of examples where you can take a stand for men's rights, do you really think this case is the place for that? Sexual assault is just as much a men's rights issue as it is a women's rights issue. If we want the law to take false accusations seriously, don't you think we should take actual assault seriously too?

[–]ElfmanLV4 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I do, but I still don't think putting him on the sex offenders list is anywhere near justifiable. Do some community service, make him attend clinics or seminars to learn about consent and behaviour. Give him a fine too. He's a doctor for God's sake and his life's work is ruined over bruised tits. He can never work or pass the police check at a hospital or clinic as a sex offender. Think about all the patients he could've helped. It's likge chopping someone's hand off for stealing. No one is saying stealing is right, it's just not a justifiable punishment, especially not compared to the other girl who literally stabbed her date and got zero punishment.

Edit: Also, judging a case solely on the merit on the plaintiff's word is also quite unsettling. I strongly disagree with the justice system relying on just good faith, especially when women have the upper hand in the he-said-she-said sector.

[–]Nightwing3000 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Actually in the case of the other girl, she was ordered to go to forced rehab, and keep sober. If she fucked that up, she'd get jail time, so neither of them got scot-free as this picture would like to tell you.

Cmon are you kidding me? Do you genuinely believe this brilliant doctor doesn't know that hurting someone to the point that they're crying isn't cool? And a seminar/clinic and a fine would be the fountain of knowledge that'd fix him? I've paid parking fines and that didn't stop me from doing it again lol. And if we're going with hypotheticals what if he abuses someone cause obviously the fine and seminar won't work, or worse kills someone?

How about this, do you believe a seminar and a fine would be enough for the chick who bit your dick so hard its not working right for a month? Would blowjob etiquette 101 really fix those teething issues? And if not, why do you think it'd work on that guy?

[–]ElfmanLV3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

People on here are acting like bruises is like getting your dick bit off. Bruises happen in happy sex all the time, and some people bruise extremely easily. It is hardly a measure for intent or intensity. And again...justice is for all. You can't just take the word of one person because they seem like a good person, then not take the word of another because they're shitty. That is the literal definition of injustice. We don't know if this girl is shitty or not, we're purely assuming.

Do you honestly think going through some rehab will make this girl clean forever? She fucking stabbed a dude in the leg and slashed his hands. You're telling me you'd let a violent drug addict practise on vulnerable sector patients, yet the breast bruiser is some unfixable brute?

It sounds more like we're defending the woman than we are defending the man now, and is honestly what's so wrong about how we view gender. If you think rehab isn't good enough for the man and he needs to be disbarred, then FOR SURE the woman needs to be at least disbarred in addition to being institutionalized.

[–]Nightwing3002 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Actually I'm right with you about giving her a lot harsher sentence, and will always support that. And I wasnt the one who brought it up, you said she went off free, I informed that she didn't. Nowhere in that did I defend her. You seem to be reading something other than my comment. She should definitely not be allowed to practise medicine. My only point was that you have double standards for men and women, while this sub claims to want equality. If we don't know the full story, then we don't know the full story about either case. The stabby chick tool advantage of an unfair system while the doctor guy paid for his crimes.

And I'm not taking the word of one person here, I'm taking the word of the legal system and their ruling. There must've been obvious evidence against it(the actual bruise for starters, plus there's generally other bruises that pertain to a struggle as well). Now it's completely possible that the girl is lying, but that's not likely scenario. Just like it's also completely possible that the stabby girl is actually innocent and her victim slashed himself and blamed her and she can't be arsed to remember cause he was fucking high at the time, but that is also unlikely.

And I never said bit off the dick, that'd be gbh which is a much more serious offense. But a simple bite is enough to cause temporary erectile dysfunction, pain while pissing and blood in urine. Now if a chick does that to me, I want the world to know she's crazy so another guy doesn't get his dick fucked up or worse. Do you disagree?

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Don't breath on my face or you're raping me. Don't let your fingers come within 5 inches of my ears or you're raping me. Don't make any skin-to-skin contact with my chest area including but not limited to my nipples or you're raping me. Don't touch anything in my vagina except for my clitoris or you're raping me. But you have to touch my clitoris the right way or you're raping me. Don't touch the back of my thighs or you're raping me. Don't produce even a drop of sweat or you're raping me. If your sweat makes any contact with my skin, you're double-raping me. Don't take any antibiotics or you're raping me. If you don't get me to orgasm twice, you're raping me. Don't ejaculate in or on me, or you're raping me. Don't ejaculate on my sheets or you're raping me. You might as well just not ejaculate, or you're raping me.

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[+]DrewFlan 8 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

"Don't grab my breasts to the point of bruising" seems like a very reasonable mid-sex request in my opinion.

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[+]DrewFlan 8 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

The fuck are you talking about? Fondling someone's breasts and grabbing to the point of bruising are radically different things and it was never "the norm" to injure a woman during sex.

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[+]DrewFlan 8 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Some people like it rough

Yes, I am aware. And when someone says stop because you're being too rough you stop.

[–]pacmatt27 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That's funny... Because every time a woman has been hurting me during sex and I told her to calm down or stop, she said "I can't help it" and continued, even despite further protestations. I have been hurt, bruised, physically wounded to the point that I ended up with a swollen lip and so much blood pouring out of wounds in my back that it later stained my boxers as I walked home confused and unhappy.

Strange that none of those women have even seen a courtroom but this man can no longer practice medicine. Strange that the woman in the article committed an assault with a deadly weapon, unprovoked, and can still practice medicine. If she'd been a man I'd hazard that things would be very different.

That is the point of the article. It is not to debate whether or not forceful titty-grabbing is ok, it's to illustrate a very clear and (what I would have thought to be) very fucking obvious disparity in prosecution by gender.

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[–]pacmatt27 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

... Do you know why?

Why do you think a lot of men are on here? Surely you must be aware that a large percentage of us are victims of serious abuse at the hands of women? I don't really condone any form of joy at the prospect of abuse towards another human being. I don't even think that's what's happening... I think what's happening is a sort of wry amusement that we can be so thoroughly shit upon that even the courts, even what are supposed to be a bastion of justice and truth, are willing to mock us.

A woman stabbed a man and got a comparable punishment to a man who grabbed a girl's boobs too hard during sex.

Do you have any idea of the amount of men on here who have been verbally, physically, emotionally and sexually abused by women. Any idea how many have experienced far worse than bruising at the hands of women, while those same women experience no reprisal for their actions?

A woman stabbed a man and got a comparable punishment to a man who grabbed a girl's boobs too hard during sex. Either you laugh at the situation, you go balls deep into it and let go, or you fucking kill yourself. What other fucking option is there? Even on this thread we have people arguing that the man deserved his punishment because she didn't consent. Ok, fine, punish him. I don't think that innocent man consented to being stabbed either... But a stabbing can fucking kill someone. End their life completely. All their hopes, dreams and loved ones crushed. All in an instant. A bruised tit can't do that and yet they receive the same punishment? What would you do? Laugh? Like I say, either laugh or give up.

[–]blue_strat 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Do you have any idea of the amount of men on here who have been verbally, physically, emotionally and sexually abused by women.

Yes, and out of 160,000 it isn't many. I've been here a while now, and I can tell when people are bandwagoning and brigading based on trivial events and normal insecurities they've found in their own lives, rather than out of an empathy they've found with others'.

This is not to say that the few who have legitimate complaints don't deserve a hearing, of course they do. There are real issues at stake and since at least the 1950s there has been a gradual awakening through thinking societies to the idea that the law does not treat both sexes fairly. I am well aware of the damaging and despicable injustices that exist in the world.

But this is not a charity to which people devote their time in order to better others. At least half of the posts are misrepresentations of the facts (like this OP) which are presented in order to stir common-denomintor anger and produce karma or some vague recognition for the users. This is not only unhealthy in itself, it's detrimental to the very movements this sub is supposed to represent and encourage, and it's a real pity that the vulgar spirit of populism has overtaken what could have been an engine of real change.

[–]pacmatt27 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Yes, and out of 160,000 it isn't many.

That... Is extreme arrogance. To think you've accurately surveyed that many people on a guess... People who are conditioned to hide their feelings on a daily basis? You think you know how many people out of 160,000 individuals conditioned to hide mundane emotions have suffered serious abuse. Come on.

This is not to say that the few who have legitimate complaints don't deserve a hearing, of course they do.

Then why don't you be silent for a moment and hear them? Instead of butting in at the first opportunity, wait, listen. See past the anger for a moment and listen to what people are saying.

But this is not a charity to which people devote their time in order to better others.

No, it is a subreddit intended to create a place for people to discuss these issues. To find like-minded individuals and raise awareness. Who are you to shit on that just because it's not some arbitrary level you deem to be an acceptable point of involvement?

At least half of the posts

Some more spurious statistics from you? Please, stop it. Most of the posts are demonstrations of inequality, this included.

are misrepresentations of the facts (like this OP)

He posted the titles of two articles. What facts are there to misrepresent? Anyone who read both articles would be acutely aware of the details of both cases and how accurately they portray female privilege.

This is not only unhealthy in itself, it's detrimental to the very movements this sub is supposed to represent and encourage, and it's a real pity that the vulgar spirit of populism has overtaken what could have been an engine of real change.

Perhaps. I wouldn't say it's unhealthy to distribute an example of genuine sentencing disparity (which this very fucking clearly is). However, how can you argue that appealing to common denominators is less productive as an engine for change? It might be less intellectually nourishing but most people aren't well-educated. They don't have the critical faculty most well-educated people do. That's not arrogance, that is a fact. It's the duty of well-educated people to vet and demolish arguments which are invalid. This post is not invalid. It's a simple, accurate example of gender inequality. One which will resonate with many people on this sub.

[–]blue_strat 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

That... Is extreme arrogance.

This is what you get when you take a comment apart in linear order like that. Yet later you knew the context and disregarded it, so perhaps I'm talking to a wall here.

Then why don't you be silent for a moment and hear them? Instead of butting in at the first opportunity, wait, listen. See past the anger for a moment and listen to what people are saying.

Check the timestamps if you really want to, but I had the time to read a lot of responses. I read at least 50 comments for each comment I post, so that isn't really reliable to question prima facie.

Who are you to shit on that just because it's not some arbitrary level you deem to be an acceptable point of involvement?

Because most of the intercourse is not of ideas that present reality and suggest action, they are simply emotional gnawing on a bone that has no place in effecting real change.

Some more spurious statistics from you? Please, stop it. Most of the posts are demonstrations of inequality, this included.

It seems you don't actually follow up on the posts you read here. Go to primary sources, and you may be disillusioned with much of what you see.

He posted the titles of two articles. What facts are there to misrepresent? Anyone who read both articles would be acutely aware of the details of both cases and how accurately they portray female privilege.

As I said, common-denominator outrage. One of the articles is from the Daily Mail, which if you knew you would almost disregard out of hand. You need to look more deeply into these things.

(which this very fucking clearly is)

Until you look into the facts of the case. Really, you need to scratch some of these surfaces.

This post is not invalid.

Au contrair.

One which will resonate with many people on this sub.

Which is the point of course, regardless of petty things like fact. My point stands.

[–]pacmatt27 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

This is what you get when you take a comment apart in linear order like that. Yet later you knew the context and disregarded it, so perhaps I'm talking to a wall here.

I'm disregarding nothing. If you think I've done that then perhaps you overestimate my ability or your own skill at explanation. You claim to believe that, of 160,000 people here, very few have suffered abuse. I think you're wrong and I think that's the source of the emotive responses you're finding here.

Check the timestamps if you really want to, but I had the time to read a lot of responses. I read at least 50 comments for each comment I post, so that isn't really reliable to question prima facie.

So, we're disregarding the fact that you could have been doing literally anything between those comments? Timestamps mean nothing and it's weird you'd use that as evidence. But, ok, let's pretend you're being truthful. So you've spent, what, a few hours here? Reading the comments? A few days, weeks, months? How does that compare to collectively hundreds of years of experience of the individuals in this sub? How does that compare to the experience of one individual in this sub? What I'm suggesting is that you don't know the experiences of a lot of people here and you're acting as though you do. You seem to be claiming to know their motives and their intent when you don't, you're simply guessing from text which carries almost none of the usual indicators of motive and intent.

Because most of the intercourse is not of ideas that present reality and suggest action, they are simply emotional gnawing on a bone that has no place in effecting real change.

Shall I restate? Who are you to suggest that raising awareness and discussing experiences among like-minded people is not an acceptable level of involvement? Who are you? Genuinely? Who are you? Who are you to decide what other people get to do with their time? Do you even know why I'm asking the question? You're not their father, their mother, their boss or their teacher. You're nobody to them and you don't get to decide how much involvement a person has to have in a cause before it can be considered legitimate. Maybe they don't have the time or ability to help in a charity. Maybe they just want to talk to other people who understand. I tentatively said you were arrogant before but now I know that you are. If these people want to indulge their emotions for a moment, fucking let them. There are few, if any, places where these topics can usually be discussed elsewhere. If you don't like it, fuck off. Nobody made you come here.

It seems you don't actually follow up on the posts you read here. Go to primary sources, and you may be disillusioned with much of what you see.

Thanks for the condescension. Way to get people on your side. It seems you claim to have done an in-depth study on every post here and checked all primary sources? Is that so? Iiiii'm going to call bullshit. Some are shit, yes. Most are not. You've decided this one is bullshit despite it being perfectly acceptable, so excuse me if I don't take your word on this one.

As I said, common-denominator outrage. One of the articles is from the Daily Mail, which if you knew you would almost disregard out of hand. You need to look more deeply into these things.

More condescension, way to get people to listen. And, yet, it's an article with facts about a conviction. Please post alternatives if you wish to discredit it.

Until you look into the facts of the case. Really, you need to scratch some of these surfaces.

Feel free to post facts that discredit the comparison, if you have any. Pro-tip: You don't. So don't bother bringing this up again.

Au contrair.

Sweet rebuttal... So... This is the third time you've claimed the comparison to be invalid due to some arcane knowledge only you possess. A man commits what can only be described as a very mild sexual assault on a previously consenting partner which is compared to a violent stabbing. Both crimes receive a similar punishment. The comparison is used as a means of illustrating systemic sexism against males. If you have any facts which are in any way relevant to disputing this illustration either supply them or shut the fuck up. Your lame quips are completely impotent and offer nothing to the discussion. I'm perfectly willing to hear you out if you have anything of substance to contribute but if you keep acting like an arrogant prick them I'm gonna respond in kind and neither of us achieve anything. Defend your claims or shut the fuck up.

Which is the point of course, regardless of petty things like fact. My point stands.

Your point stands flat on its fucking arse because it has failed to supply facts, despite claiming to be entirely fact-based. OP has supplied infinitely more facts than you because you have contributed a grand total of zero.

[–]blue_strat 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]pacmatt271 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]blue_strat3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pacmatt271 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes, it's lazy to not look through two pages of your comments in the random hope that you might have offered some support for your claims in a different conversation. How very lazy of me indeed. I mean, all it takes is a simple copy and paste on your part but, yes, it's totally reasonable to assume that I would go through what could be a completely pointless exercise on good faith alone.

And... The barrister's breakdown proves what, exactly? That they claim the leniency is commonplace yet did not apply the same leniency to this sexual assault case? The two cases differ dramatically in harm caused to the victim and yet the two defendants are treated as though they committed a similar crime. The fact is, they didn't. The fact is, one was a young, pretty, white woman and the other was not. To suggest anything else is responsible for this disparity is completely dishonest. You only have to look at broader sentencing statistics to know that's the case.

If you bothered to check the sidebar to this sub, smartarse, you'd see a huge list of evidenced claims. (Oh, look at that, one of us is too lazy to provide sources and the other isn't, what a surprise!) One of these claims supports my argument - that women are systematically given lighter sentences for comparable crimes. It's not arcane, it's reading. Anything else is lazy.

Now, offer something of substance or be on your way. You're clearly not able to function in this discussion and have completely lost sight of the point of this post.

[–]blue_strat2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pacmatt271 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]blue_strat2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

A couple of users have wanted me to “leave” the sub/thread, as if my comments make them uncomfortable and they want to continue hating the world they’ve envisioned without distraction. I’ve not been abusive, in contrast to the users who have called me a prick and cunt, as if after seven years on reddit alone I could be so easily offended.

This rather reinforces my point, which is that much of this content is both emotional in nature and lacking its supposed substance. The trend that the sub is meant to raise awareness about had become a mantra that every situation is painted with, regardless of accuracy.

To use a popular phrase, it’s sad. This sub could have provided advice for victims and given them hope that they will find a secure life for themselves. Instead it’s become a pit of self-delusion and misogyny, burying the cases of actual misandry and injustice beneath a veil of stupidity that does the exact opposite of raising awareness, obfuscating real problems with artificial nonsense.

Any attempt at examining a case further is dismissed as trolling or misandry where in any other context it would be normal investigation. It’s like the users are afraid that the content doesn’t say what they want it to, which is counterproductive in any movement that seeks to educate.

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I don't understand how what the man did is considered a sex crime because it was stated it was consensual sex. If anything it could maybe be some kind of simple assault and it should be taken into account it was a moment of passion. But if it was so bothersome why did she not stop having sex? I didn't read anything more than her asking him to stop touching her boobs and if she did ask him to stop(sex) then obviously he must have as she isn't accusing him of rape or anything so that would be clear he wasn't trying to commit a sex crime. If a woman grabbed a mans boobs like this that he was insecure of and pleaded her to stop would that be a sex crime? Its so unfair to classify him as a sexual predator and ruin his life over something like this but the woman that stabbed someone on a similar life path doesn't deserve to have her actions fuck up her life some. To those that think its not comparable that to me is how it is, making a woman's life more valuable not worth being thrown away over a mistake(much worse one!!) But a mans life, fuck em he gets no consideration at all on the impact of the conviction handed down to him is going to destroy his life and everything he has worked so hard for.

This shit makes me so sad and pissed. I think nearly every man I know has been fucked over by a woman and its all shit society is okay with and have a double standard if women did similar shit. I am a woman and the majority of the men I know don't even realize what a bad deal they get just for being a man, half the time when I try to talk to men about men's rights issues, they downplay stuff and make excuses for why its okay. Its like most men would rather say they're a feminist than for men's rights. I know I just went kinda off topic but its my first post here after lurking for a while and feel passionate about the injustices against men.

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[+]heisenberg747 8 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

How about posting the article instead of misleading headlines?

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[+]lionroar123 8 years ago* [recovered] (26 children) | Copy Link

It’s a fucking comparison she stabbed him and got away and he did something during consensual sex and got jailed.

[–]MrJohz 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

She received a suspended sentence. Her sentence according to the sentencing guidelines was two years or less, which means judges in the UK are allowed to offer a suspended sentence. They generally do this if the defendant is not considered dangerous, and the prison sentence will disrupt a person's life far beyond the expected two year sentence. For example, in this case, as a trainee doctor, imprisonment would essentially ruin all her chances to enter the medical profession, despite only being two years. To test the former criteria, the judge actually withheld sentencing for a period of time to allow the defendant a chance to demonstrate that she had quit her drug abuse habit and was controlling her life much better.

This did not happen because she was a woman, it happened because this is the norm in the UK justice system and happens to men and women alike. Recently there was a similar controversy about a man who received a suspended sentence because he claimed it would interfere with the offer he has just received to join a major international cricket team. It turned out he was lying about that, and he was given the full sentence (plus extra for lying, I think), but the principle of the British justice system still stands - a punishment should not last significantly longer than the jail sentence given.

You might think this should be changed, and there is good reason to suggest that, but this did not happen because she was a woman.

With the guy who was jailed, I haven't heard much about this case, but the other commentators in this thread have made it very clear that this was not consensual - the woman involved made a very clear request beforehand for him not to grab her breasts, and he refused to comply. This is weird, but still assault - the bounds of consensual sex can be as specific as the two parties agree to, and if one party oversteps that boundary, that is sexual assault. This isn't something we should be disagreeing with at all.

This sort of shit is the Men's Rights equivalent of extreme feminists claiming that all men should be considered sexist - obvious nonsense, but nonsense that whips people up into a frenzy of ignorance. There are real and systemic issues affecting men in this country, that we need to question and address. This does neither of those things.

e: fixing up spellings

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He did something sexual during consensual sex.

You think hurting someone until they cry is SEXUAL!? you are sick if that is the case.

Yeah she says she asked him not to touch her tits, he says she didn't.

Right, I think the bruising shows who was the most likely to be telling the truth in this scenario.

Based on the evidence given (her word, his word) and the fact that contact with tits was made (bruising) the courts have decided her word holds more weight then his. For no reason other then they said so.

You realise that bruises are proof that a lot of force was applied to an area, right? Enough force for someone to most likely tell you to stop.

Stabbing is something the police will press charges on even if the victim won't.

This is the same with assault in many places.

They might not be able to if the victim withdraws any statements as that could limit evidence, but if I stabbed someone in the street in front of a police officer, and the victim said its okay, it's my fetish, I'd still be locked up.

And if you squeezed a woman's breasts to the point of bruising while she asks you to stop then evidently you will get the same outcome.

What you've said is moronic.

Both examples are examples of assault that end up with you facing trial, not moronic, just showing you how bad your line of thinking is.

[–]MrBagnall -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]olican101 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I've both given and received bruising during fully consensual sexual intercourse.

But you didn't cry and tell the other person repeatedly to stop.

It's how me and my past partners have gotten our jollies so to speak.

Okay, you're into that. Some people are into their testicles getting punched, does that mean you wouldn't mind someone doing it to you?

Now a conviction bases on nothing but her word and some bruises seems really flakey and could lead to lots of people not being able to enjoy sex for fear of a criminal conviction.

I don't understand this logic... "Some people like to be hurt by others and I like to hurt them, so I hurt her even though she didnt give me consent to hert her and there are bruises to prove it" is basically what it boils down to.

If she said stop and he didn't then yes, that's assault.

Add onto that that he was also assaulting her breasts.

But in a court of law you're meant to fucking proove someone is guilty before a conviction and "I said so" isn't fucking proof.

So is a knife cut not proof that you were cut by a knife now either?

[–]MrBagnall 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

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[+]WaterPigeon -38 points-37 points-36 points 8 years ago* (23 children) | Copy Link

Man this, r/the_donald, r/tumblrnAction, r/cringeanarchy are all just doing their best to cherry pick everything they can.

Edit: From the "consensual sex" article that no one here read

A man studying to become a doctor has been convicted of indecent assault for grabbing his Tinder date's breasts with "excessive force" during consensual sex.

Philip Queree, 37, met the woman on the dating app and they had sex on their second date.

During intercourse, he pulled her hair and repeatedly squeezed her breasts despite her telling him to stop because it hurt, Jersey Magistrate's Court heard.

In a written judgement reported by the Jersey Evening Post, magistrate Bridget Shaw said: "I am sure that Miss X withdrew consent for Queree to grab her breasts. Queree knew this but continued to do so forcefully, causing the complainant considerable pain. This was an assault.

"Queree touched a sexual and intimate part of her body in a sexual manner without her consent. Irrespective of her consent to other sexual conduct, I am sure that the touching was in circumstances of indecency and thus Queree is guilty of indecent assault."

Edit 2: From the second article

This girl was a fucking drug addict. People claim that she is getting away with this because she is a woman. But in my opinion it's because she has rich ass parents. This is a class issue, not a sex issue. If she were poorer she wpuld certainly be in jail.

Edit 3: Whoever made this false equivalency needs help

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[+]heisenberg747 8 years ago* [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link

The story on the left can't possibly be true...

How about you provide a source instead of downvoting? Being skeptical of news that comes in meme form is a good thing, people. Here is the story if anyone is interested, it looks like Philip Queree wasn't just grabbing her boobs, he was being extremely rough with her to the point where she really was injured. Men's rights is an important issue, but it's obvious that this sub is just a fucking circle jerk. Half the time you people don't even post an actual story, just the headline like this post. You guys are just as bad as the feminists, I have to unsub.

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Playing devil's advocate how does the bruising suggest that she asked him stop?

It shows that he put enough pressure there for there to be pain in the area. Most people that have not consented to pain beforehand will ask the other person to stop inflicting pain on them at that point.

Would the bruising have been ok if she hadn't asked him to stop, but not realised how hard he was grabbing her until the bruising showed?

Yes. But that isn't what she is saying happened.

How do you feel that a woman in Glasgow got convicted of forcibly shoving her fingers up a gay mans arsehole at a house party against his will, causing him to bleed, recently and received less community service than the man in this article?

It's disgusting, but that was not titled "woman touches man's butt and gets community service for it".

Does the picture being slightly misleading invalidate the point of the meme, that there is a disparity in sentencing in these cases?

It is far more than "slightly missleading", half of the picture is equating assault to "touching". It just makes the Men's Rights movement lose credibility.

[–]rollypolymasta 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It shows that he put enough pressure there for there to be pain in the area. Most people that have not consented to pain beforehand will ask the other person to stop inflicting pain on them at that point.

This doesn't necessarily indicate that the pressure was enough to cause pain, her ability to bruise and her pain threshold come into play here. But if that is the case it still doesn't mean that she repeatedly asked him to stop, simply that he applied enough pressure to cause pain. So again it's not really evidence of a lack of consent.

I'm gauging from your answer to my second question (correct me if I'm wrong) that if he grabbed her boobs hard enough for them to bruise, but she didn't say to stop then no crime would have been committed. Therefore this case had to predicated on evidence that she told him to stop (as a crime would not have been committed otherwise), so if both of them had conflicting testimonies why was the accusers testimony ruled in favour of over the defendant's? Would you considered misleading to sum up the case without divulging this information? What about that he got put on the sex offender registry, despite the fact the social inquiry report said he had a very low risk of reoffending. Is it misleading to mention the ruling of this case without discussing the social inquiry report?

It's disgusting, but that was not titled "woman touches man's butt and gets community service for it".

I think that's way more misleading as forced penetration is a way more serious crime than unwanted touching. If you refused to mention the extent of the injuries and the fact that she did this after the man refused her sexual intercourse, then I think this would be a more apt analogy. Regardless I brought this case up as a demonstration of sentencing disparities for the same crime (sexual/indecent assault).

It is far more than "slightly missleading", half of the picture is equating assault to "touching". It just makes the Men's Rights movement lose credibility.

I would argue that it is slightly misleading as the additional information doesn't really invalidate the point OP is making and as I've stated it too doesn't include relevant information about the sentencing going against the social inquiry report, which puts the sentencing in a harsher light. Thus arguably OP is also downplaying how ridiculous the sentence the defendant recieved in that case is, but I don't see anyone criticising the headline as misleading bringing that up. OP also chose a headline for the stabbing story that fails to mention: that the victim sustained multiple defensive wounds and had multiple objects thrown at him. This seems like it's downplaying the second crime, but no-one pointing out this meme as being misleading has brought that up either.

Ultimately the fact that OP chose headlines to represent both stories, that address both the crime that had been committed and the sentencing for those crimes. Means that not all relevant information will be present as there's only so much information you can put in a headline before it simply becomes an article. Thus I kinda think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Also even if OP was completely misleading I fail to see how that would discredit the entire MRM, and not just OP. I think people reading your comment might find you misleading in how much emphasis you're placing on this post, in regards to effects on the credibility of the MRM.

[–]olican101 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This doesn't necessarily indicate that the pressure was enough to cause pain, her ability to bruise and her pain threshold come into play here.

I have never met a person that has bruised without feeling pain, in fact, it is a rather rare condition that they would have mentioned.

But if that is the case it still doesn't mean that she repeatedly asked him to stop, simply that he applied enough pressure to cause pain. So again it's not really evidence of a lack of consent.

No, but it does show that he inflicted pain on her, something he denied.

I'm gauging from your answer to my second question (correct me if I'm wrong) that if he grabbed her boobs hard enough for them to bruise, but she didn't say to stop then no crime would have been committed. Therefore this case had to predicated on evidence that she told him to stop (as a crime would not have been committed otherwise), so if both of them had conflicting testimonies why was the accusers testimony ruled in favour of over the defendant's?

Well, it is in the middle, both of them are saying something about the other, I think the fact that he denied hurting her (when there were bruises) and the courts finding in her favour says a lot.

Would you considered misleading to sum up the case without divulging this information? What about that he got put on the sex offender registry, despite the fact the social inquiry report said he had a very low risk of reoffending. Is it misleading to mention the ruling of this case without discussing the social inquiry report?

I just find the word "touching" to be a completely inaccurate word for a man that grabs a woman's chest so hard that she bruises while she alegedly cried and repeatedly asked him to stop.

I think that's way more misleading as forced penetration is a way more serious crime than unwanted touching.

The crime is worse but it is equally missleading. The severity of a crime does not depict how misleading titles about said crime are.

If you refused to mention the extent of the injuries and the fact that she did this after the man refused her sexual intercourse, then I think this would be a more apt analogy. Regardless I brought this case up as a demonstration of sentencing disparities for the same crime (sexual/indecent assault).

And my example showed how that could also be used in a misleading way.

I would argue that it is slightly misleading as the additional information doesn't really invalidate the point OP is making and as I've stated it too doesn't include relevant information about the sentencing going against the social inquiry report, which puts the sentencing in a harsher light.

It is misleading. That means that any data made from that misleading data is misleading, including this image. Choose a thing that ACTUALLY happened instead of twisting a case until it incorrectly fits a narrative.

Thus arguably OP is also downplaying how ridiculous the sentence the defendant recieved in that case is, but I don't see anyone criticising the headline as misleading bringing that up. OP also chose a headline for the stabbing story that fails to mention: that the victim sustained multiple defensive wounds and had multiple objects thrown at him. This seems like it's downplaying the second crime, but no-one pointing out this meme as being misleading has brought that up either.

I was not aware of that, that means that 100% of this post is misleading, if we want to make a better, more equal world for men and women, maybe we should use facts instead of what we want people to think is real when it isn't.

Ultimately the fact that OP chose headlines to represent both stories, that address both the crime that had been committed and the sentencing for those crimes. Means that not all relevant information will be present as there's only so much information you can put in a headline before it simply becomes an article. Thus I kinda think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Those headlines themselves are missleading, they are from RT which is banned on much of reddit for its sensationalist and often false (like in both these cases) headlines and information.

Wanting correct information is not "making a mountain out of a molehill". Imagine if I made a post stating "man makes more than woman while woman makes less in same job" but that was just a title for an article that was talking about the gender pay gap between different fields.

Also even if OP was completely misleading I fail to see how that would discredit the entire MRM, and not just OP. I think people reading your comment might find you misleading in how much emphasis you're placing on this post, in regards to effects on the credibility of the MRM.

If people only ever see misleading information then that discredits MRM... every post from MRM that I have seen this week (this is the only one ive seen as I dont go far on all) has been incorrect.

[–]rollypolymasta -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I have never met a person that has bruised without feeling pain, in fact, it is a rather rare condition that they would have mentioned.

I have a relatively high pain threshold and I often get bruises on my body without any recollection of the pain that caused them. Also you can't just make that assumption in a court to of law, one could doubt reasonably that she sustained those injuries during sex without being in pain.

No, but it does show that he inflicted pain on her, something he denied.

Of the multiple articles I've read on this case, none have mentioned that he denied causing her pain. He denied the charge (which was indecent assault) and we've already established that the charge would only apply if she didn't consent. I'm happy to be proven wrong if you have a source to back this up, otherwise it's you being misleading here mate.

And my example showed how that could also be used in a misleading way.

And my analysis was that you were being a lot more misleading than you accuse OP of being.

I was not aware of that, that means that 100% of this post is misleading, if we want to make a better, more equal world for men and women, maybe we should use facts instead of what we want people to think is real when it isn't.

My point was to highlight that these armchair detectives who are jumping down OPs throat for being misleading, are themselves being misleading and leaving out relevant information and are thus hypocrites. Whilst also highlighting the fact that there is so much relevant information needed to put these crimes in context that's impossible to summarise them (even with a paragraph like some posters and not just one line like OP) without being misleading.

Those headlines themselves are missleading, they are from RT which is banned on much of reddit for its sensationalist and often false (like in both these cases) headlines and information.

Sure if you can find me a single headline about both the crime and sentence received for these stories, that covers all the relevant information and details about the crime and how in the Jersey case the sentencing goes against the social inquiry report then I'll admit these specific headlines are misleading in comparison. Otherwise my point still stands, that the nature of a headline means it'll always give a slightly misleading account of a crime by nature of its length.

Wanting correct information is not "making a mountain out of a molehill".

Criticising a headline for not being 100% reflective of the crime it's referencing, is imo making a mountain out of a molehill.

If people only ever see misleading information then that discredits MRM... every post from MRM that I have seen this week (this is the only one ive seen as I dont go far on all) has been incorrect.

If you only ever read one post on a mens rights sub and chose to form your entire opinion of it on that, then your opinion on the movement being wrong is down to you not that one post. If you're willing to dismiss the MRM based on that without even a cursory glance at another thread, why would you go to such effort to dismiss this one headline without an ulterior motive to do so?

Edit: I do believe that OP should have posted links to these articles in his description, but clearly you've demonstrated that these links are easily found with a cursory Google search.

[–]In10sity 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]lionroar123 8 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Did you just assume a gender?

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[–]olican101 -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Storm_Kun 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

You can't revoke consent after you've already had sex. You can revoke during, but not after.

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