This sub spends too much time complaining about feminism and not enough time pushing forward men's rights and changes in the treatment of men.

Mr_Rivers · 2013-03-31T18:49:54+00:00

With respect, is it not better suggest ways which we can push forwards mens rights instead of complaining we don't do enough of it?

Make suggestions on how we can do this as a grop of people

EvilPundit · 2013-03-31T16:21:54+00:00

The two are inseparable, since any attempt to improve men's rights is resisted by feminists.

feminism is (by and large) just a bunch of people infighting and shouting about things that don't matter...

No, it isn't. It's an organised and powerful political movement which actively and effectively works to take away rights from men.

There is not enough here about campaigning for men's rights or raising funds or serious organisation.

That will come. Our most important task at this time is raising awareness, and that necessarily includes countering feminist propaganda.

ChocolateMeoww · 2013-03-31T21:04:32+00:00

Well, let's be honest here, who's the reason we have a women's resources center at the courthouse, and not a men's resources? They literally give lawyers to women who are in domestic abuse cases, regardless if they are the one charged with it or not. Men don't get that right. When I was charged with domestic assault because my girlfriend didn't like that I said I didn't ever want to talk to her again after she beat me up, and lied to the police, the Women's resources put up a nice big sign on their bulletin board that said I was a woman beater. The charges were dropped and everything because it became apparent VERY QUICKLY that my ex had made up the charges completely. (Certain facts like how she called the day after the charge happened, the fact that she said she wanted to kill me and had so much anger built up in a Facebook message three days before the incident, and how she used an ancient bruise as "proof" that I beat her.)

After all of this, Women's resources STILL pursued a civil case, and their "lawyer" that they provided my ex utterly refused to negotiate much on the civil side. Luckily, all I got out of it was a mutual restraining order that excludes incidental contact on campus.

P.S. Sorry for the rant, I just had to. It boils my blood when I see how much power we have given the women in the name of "equality."

JustReward · 2013-03-31T18:16:43+00:00

I believe people are interpreting your post as an attempt to silence this subreddit because you don't offer any suggestions. What would you have us do? If you wish to organize activism, vague complaints alone won't cut it.

Funcuz · 2013-03-31T17:24:07+00:00

Originally, at the beginning, feminism was a well-organised force for good (surely no one here can argue against that)

You're wrong on both counts. Firstly , it was only well-organized after decades of false starts. Nevertheless , by the time it entered the public consciousness , it was mostly well-organized.

As for the idea that nobody can argue that it was a force for good ... uh , I can definitely argue against it.

I can agree that in principle it was a force for good because it gave women parity with men in many areas. In practice however , it has been anything BUT good. It's no coincidence that the breaking of the social contract between men and women has resulted in countless broken homes , dysfunctional children , and an awful lot of women with chips on their shoulders despite being better off as a group in the developed world when compared to pretty much everybody else in the history of humanity. That short-sightedness has cost us dearly and there's no end in sight because nobody else is trying to draw attention to the hypocrisy of feminism.

Until we can get our shit together, stop focusing on other people and BE MEN, we're never going to make the gains in society we need to.

THAT just begs for a hearty "Go fuck yourself" by trying to use shaming tactics to get us to do what YOU think a man is supposed to be doing (whatever that is exactly) It's that bullshit attitude of "Don't complain...just take it !" that got us into this mess in the first place.

You must be a concern troll and if you're not then YOU need to work on the brainwashing you've clearly been subjected to.

Scott2508 · 2013-03-31T18:15:32+00:00

ok so shaming language , trying to define what a man is by your own standards and not giving a damn who identifies as what and totally dismissing the fact we have some amazing women in the movement , yep your logic and gravitas makes your argument sound and we all should realise you are right ..........

roadhand · 2013-03-31T18:05:24+00:00

It's little wonder the MRM is seen as a group of whiny, bitchy little boys

Really? Then welcome to the club, motherfucker - where do you think I read this insult?

johnsmith66 · 2013-03-31T17:00:50+00:00

You need to educate yourself regarding feminism. The MRM exists because feminists have pushed laws that oppress us. Feminism is the enemy. We will only make progress by fighting the enemy.

Deansdale · 2013-03-31T17:38:34+00:00

And you spend too much time complaining about what this sub's doing and not enough time doing actual useful shit. Stop trying to shepherd others, do your stuff and let others do theirs. And actually one of our most important weapon in this fight is to show others (outsiders) the harm feminism has done.

It's little wonder the MRM is seen as a group of whiny, bitchy little boys

Yadda, yadda, yadda, you can go fuck yourself. It is actually you who whine here. Go troll SRS if you have so much time on your hands.

edit: clarity

PerniciousOne · 2013-03-31T19:46:16+00:00

Until we can get our shit together, stop focusing on other people and BE MEN, we're never going to make the gains in society we need to.

What is your view of being a man.

Working in the Glass Cellar professions (also known as the Death professions)?
Stoically taking anything and everything thrown at you?
Standing idly by as people take away all your rights, while forcing by law all the responsibilities upon you?
Watching as the destruction of male-only spaces keeps growing, any fraternal organization is suffering because of the negative connotations of maleness is happening.

People come here to share and comment on events which they have experienced because they are male. Shaming males from expressing feelings and viewpoints is a pretty low thing, which feminists are trying to do. Shaming us for having opinions.

Puffy_Ghost · 2013-03-31T22:23:08+00:00

I honestly thought this subreddit was for complaining about feminists.

TIL.

CrossHook · 2013-03-31T19:01:17+00:00

We have a well documented history of feminists pushing legislature that discriminated against men, publishing rigged studies that hide male victims and inflate the numbers of female victims, and actively block any attempt my MRAs to secure equal government funding. Prominent feminists slander the MRM as a "hate group" and simulatneously deny that men have any problems while claiming that "feminism will solve men's problems." Feminist academics squash any dissenting opinion and own the entire discussion on gender dynamics, and in some countries criticism against feminism is vein made illegal. There are very few places where the popular feminist narrative is even questioned let alone dissected. And as for working together in activism we have to worry about been doxxed by fucking feminist trolls who would try to get us fired and ruin our lives.

So check your fucking feminism or shut your fucking mouth. This is MEN'S RIGHTS and we will never stop telling the truth no matter how much you try to shame us, you fucking coward.

Nepene · 2013-03-31T19:56:11+00:00

"Originally, at the beginning, feminism was a well-organised force for good (surely no one here can argue against that) and they still have that legacy which is why they get listened to."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_years_doctrine

Feminists have been ambivalent about men having rights for centuries.

The largest activist group of MRA is fathers rights activists, who want access to their children after divorce. Feminism has been working against them for the last two centuries, so sexism is hardly new.

ignatiusloyola · 2013-03-31T21:06:30+00:00

This is a subreddit, not an organization. We don't fund raise because we are not an organization. Why is that so hard to understand?

There are people here who are parts of organizations.

OuiCrudites · 2013-03-31T18:41:51+00:00

Hey everybody, OP is monitoring everything we do everywhere, 24 hours a day, and he is displeased.

Be ashamed of yourselves.

chevalier_d_eon · 2013-03-31T20:17:28+00:00

This is the third one this week. Who ever said we're seeing an increase in the number of trolls is clearly correct.

Redditishorrible · 2013-03-31T21:09:52+00:00

Listen, not every feminist is evil, but even if they were, we need to rise above it and push forward our own agenda without getting bogged down in the hate of others.

NAFALT

til we can get our shit together, stop focusing on other people and BE MEN

Defining for the rest of us "what it is to be a man"...

And general concern trolling.

It's embarrassing.

What's embarrassing is getting your ass roundly handed to you, and when you fight back, you're told you look like an idiot and should knock it off.

THAT is embarrassing, even more embarrassing is when the fence riders in this sub upvote crap posts like these.

Suitecake · 2013-03-31T22:20:45+00:00

Same issue with /r/atheism. The stuff that gets the upvotes are mostly cheap shots against Christianity. Lot of heat, no light.

I think it's just an effect of the sub being so damn large. The stuff that'll float to the top will be easy-to-consume, and flogging feminism (or a straw man of it) is very easy-to-consume.

xonze · 2013-03-31T22:49:24+00:00

I don't honestly know what you expect. It's a subreddit where discussion takes place, this isn't were activism breeds in a normal sense, but it is where awareness can begin to crack through common perceptions. People like to complain, but that doesn't make those here juvenile or whiny. You have an opinion, great. Push with it and try to be the change you want, but don't expect some great activism to spring from this subreddit anymore than some other subreddit. Activism happens outside of these places.

This place is trolled hard by a lot of different groups and then there are the idiots that think its about overtaking women just as Feminism is infested with those that want to kill all men.

Is Feminism the worse thing in gender equality? Depends which part of Feminism you're talking about. There are so many splinter groups that keeping track is a tireless endeavor and when something bad comes out of the movement it's 'Not all *insert Feminist/women' are like that.

Which is true, you can't judge people by what others do, only by what they do, but at the same time actions speak louder than words. What actions have those under the umbrella of Feminism done to help men break free from their gender roles? I've only seen tireless reinforcement of them. I actually hear the phrase 'Man up' from women far more than I do men. It's the whole shaming language and the dismissive tone of the more vocal of the feminism groups that is causing the heated exchanges on this subreddit and other places.

Frankly, neither group is very good anymore which is why you see far more people identifying with egalitarians. Things are never black and white and it would help everyone if more people understood that.

You believe that what is being done here is wrong and yet you give no opinions on how to make it better other than 'don't do this or this you make us look bad'. You want to help change come to this subreddit then start by offering concrete ideas and advice. You're dealing with people that have actually experienced the things brought up in this subreddit and they are emotional and angry and they have a right to be. But it can also be better used than just pointing out bad things that women do, so start with some ideas because you coming in guns blazing and attacking puts everyone on the offensive and gets you no where.

No matter what you think, these kinds of posts are shit and not useful because of their attacking nature. Don't tell others what to do, suggest rather than accuse and show by example.

microActive · 2013-04-01T03:49:45+00:00

In order to evoke change, people have to be upset. Of course you're going to see complaints on this subreddit.

Im surprised you think its that bad. At least I dont think MRA has fallen dearly to misogyny as feminism has fell to misandry.

vaselinepete · 2013-03-31T19:22:33+00:00

What individual feminists think is largely irrelevant, whether they know it or not (mostly they don't) they are supporting very serious roll backs of rights, deliberate negative stereotyping and legal and social discrimination against fathers, men and boys.

itsmeimcathy · 2013-03-31T20:04:53+00:00

I thought you made a valid point (and no I'm not a fuckin feminist) and I'm sorry you're getting attacked in this way by some ppl.

herbandmargie · 2013-03-31T21:25:40+00:00

Feminism is a statist ideology that wants government intervention to correct perceived societal wrongs.

It is ant-thesis to freedom, liberty, and individual autonomy.

It is an evil that needs to be stopped.

Jakedubbleya · 2013-04-01T02:08:32+00:00

Nice April fools joke OP

lilac3680 · 2013-03-31T22:40:44+00:00

As far as I can tell, this sub is trying to serve two purposes: education about Men's Rights (ie. custody, alimony, child support are biased and unjust systems) and support for men who have gone through unnecessary trauma because of their gender (eg. dealing with custody, abusive wives, or false rape accusations). Overall, I find this sub similar to r/TwoXChromosomes. Both subs offer useful support but can get very passionate about topics they care about which can lead to anger and less rational discussion (though all subs do this from time to time). I find both subs useful and interesting.

I'll share parts of another's story here as it illustrates problems that both genders have. I have a female friend (F). She has two parents, a loving-supportive-father (with questionable taste in women) (D) and drug-abusing-alcoholic-emotionally-absent-mother (M). They divorced while F was in elementary school. D fought hard and managed to get most of custody. However, the incompleteness of custody allowed M to (while running from an abusive boyfriend) kidnap F to a woman's shelter. F was not returned to her father at custodial transfer time and D was unable to find either of them for a number of days. When D finally caught a break and managed to follow M to the shelter, he was treated as if he were the abuser and turned away. [This fills me with rage for both my friend and her father.]

And the story continues, D is able to get is daughter back (unsure of the details). M is still allowed partial custody. [More rage.] M allows a neighborhood teen to babysit F while she does whatever it is that neglectful parents waste their time with. Babysitter repeatedly rapes an elementary school-aged F. [Infinite rage.] It took some time before the school had the "these are your private areas" talk with their students. Even then, understanding that what had been happening was wrong (not just unpleasant) only happened when the teacher said, "No one is allowed to touch you here. Not your classmates. Not adults." [Rage at this talk not happening earlier, rage that it's necessary to have at all.]

F didn't tell anyone. She didn't want her father to be hurt anymore by things that were not his fault. F decided to remove herself from M's custody. F managed to notice that M's boyfriend had a gun under the bed. She also new that he was a felon and not allowed to have a gun. [How the shit does an elementary schooler know this?] F used this information on the stand to get D full custody and has had no contact with M since.

This is technically a case of success. A good father managed to get full custody of his child. A victim of repeated rape managed to use her own power to remove herself from the situation. This is also a story of a shitty fucking system. Let's do our best to fix the damn thing as best we can. Support for those that need it whether it be r/MensRights or r/TwoXChromosomes is valid and individual tales can help make issues real. However, discussions with others where anger is the only response are rarely helpful. Remember: the goal is equity, the goal is justice.

iRommel · 2013-04-01T02:40:16+00:00

how about saying things like "its not sexual harassment to make inappropriate jokes in the presence of women like adria richards"

Men should not do their jobs in fear that a woman will claim sexual harassment without proof, and get the guy fired without question. show up 4 hours late to work and drunk? thatll get you reprimanded, unintentionally make bad financial decisions for your company? thatll get you demoted. make a joke about beating the shit out of the guy who cut you off in traffic? thatll get you a few weird looks.

make a sexual innuendo joke? instantly fired, no reprimand, no written warning... GONE.

for me, this is whats preventing workplace cooperation or camaraderie or small talk of any kind with female coworkers.

TL DR Men dont want to work in fear that a woman can feel offended by a guy, regardless of his actions, and have him fired without question.

theozoph · 2013-04-01T11:37:39+00:00

Same message, in a new format : stop criticizing feminism!

This one is heavy with feminist shaming tactics. Codes Red and Pink all over the comments. But no, no feminist brigading at all, it's just our imagination... just like the +1,500 upvotes this has received.

I'm calling it again : time to clean up.

Austinja · 2013-04-01T00:12:59+00:00

Blowing whistles on anti-men's rights rhetoric disguised as modern neo-feminism is valid in that it at least calls out the inconsistencies and unfair attitudes towards men.

That being said, a men's rights rally would be awesome. I can imagine beards, barbecues, and witty signs.

PIBagent · 2013-04-01T04:36:44+00:00

If our current strategy (the so-called whining as you put it) wasn't effective we wouldn't have 66,000 + subscribers and counting. The only ones who are complaining about it are those who want to dilute our message or silence it entirely. The point is we are NOT changing our strategy just because someone believes that we should "BE MEN" or "MAN UP", whatever that bullshit means.

MrStonedOne · 2013-04-01T05:54:27+00:00

There is not enough here about campaigning for men's rights

BEING AGAINST FEMINISM IS CAMPAIGNING FOR MEN'S RIGHTS

feminism pushes out anti-male shit. so countering that is part of the campaign for men's rights.

Kirkayak · 2013-04-01T09:11:58+00:00

When discussing a dysfunctional relationship, one might expect the one exhibiting the majority of the dysfunction to be frequently mentioned.

rightsbot · 2013-03-31T16:14:16+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

2013-03-31T18:40:50+00:00

Know who your enemies are, and feminism is definitely one of them.

rodvanmechelen · 2013-03-31T22:39:49+00:00

On Prof. Christensen's MERGE page the first of the resolutions is this: Be it therefore resolved that neither of the traditional sex roles, nor a single "androgynous" one, be enforced by law or social pressure; all three, and others as well, are worthy of respect if freely chosen.

Most people here, I think, would agree with this resolution. Now while the rest of the resolutions are a mixed bag, with some advocating for government action, the overarching principle could be summed up in a single word: Liberty.

In a recent YouTube posting I think it was Bern Chapin who pointed out that the MRM is fundamentally Libertarian regardless of those here and elsewhere who, like Prof. Christensen, argue for the inclusion of government programs.

At AVfM some of the writers are pushing to rename the MRM the MHRM, or Men's Human Rights Movement. MRM, MRHM, MERGE or NEVER*, the name really matters less than the set of principles upon which we all agree.

Progressives on the Left and the Right want more government and less individual liberty. The dominant flavors of feminism today are leftist progressives. Among the anti-feminists, many of those on the Left are progressive non-traditionalists who consider themselves MRAs or MHRAs, many of those on the Right are progressive traditionalists who think the rest of us are all a bunch of communists, and the rest of us are Classical Liberals or Libertarians.

Left or Right, progressivism always and invariably leads to a loss of individual liberty and the end result is totalitarianism. Obama-Bush-Clinton-Bush, progressives all whose administrations did and are whittling away at our liberties and leading us to a totalitarian state. Most flavors of feminism are politically progressive.

Progressivism seeks to improve things through government programs. The goals are usually good but the means is to grow government, increase the number of laws, reduce our individual freedoms and liberties, and the beast of government grows and grows until it consumes everything and we are left with communism or state corporatism (crony capitalism or mercantilism or fascism, they're all the same).

The alternative is liberty, and the Liberty Movement is growing. Whether we choose to be a Ron Paul Democrat (yes, there are many and their number is growing), Ron Paul Republican (such as myself) or Libertarian, we believe in the principles of Life, Liberty and Property.

Where gender issues are concerned, these can be and are the best answers to both men's and women's issues.

NEVER stands for Network to Eliminate Vaginally Elitist Rabble. I'll post a link to the first statement of NEVER under a separate post. As you'll see, it was always intended to be somewhat satirical.

johnmarkley · 2013-03-31T23:59:42+00:00

I don't know how a good natured post encouraging us to be more grown-up in our approach

I think "It's little wonder the MRM is seen as a group of whiny, bitchy little boys" is stretching the meaning of "good-natured" a bit.

mistyriver · 2013-04-01T02:38:03+00:00

Sending me aggressive personal messages is unnecessary. Downvoting every comment I've ever made is silly.

If you encourage the misapprehensions of people on Reddit, you'll get upvoted, if you confront folks' misguided attitudes, you'll be hated. Welcome to Reddit. That's how "karma" works, here; it's all about who can praise the cesspool the most enthusiastically.

Geno777 · 2013-04-01T04:46:25+00:00

Men's issues are complicated and the MRM is in a state of shock due to the past twenty years of accelerated and abject misandry. More and more men are being put into financial slavery, made destitute living hand to mouth, and put in jail for bullshit. So this disarray and frustration doesn't surprise me. Below is a blow by blow, twenty six bullet point list of men's issues. Maybe if everyone focused on ONE OR TWO of these issues, there would be some traction:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YoZWK2st3gDUwrAs5fOfyX6I-saG-AcdD8D9wOEM-1o/edit

To those that want to hear the text in video form, go here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r19AYbSaUpc

real-boethius · 2013-03-31T22:12:54+00:00

Originally, at the beginning, feminism was a well-organised force for good (surely no one here can argue against that)

Have you actually researched this? What is your factual basis for this statement? Did you just assume it?

Bla34112 · 2013-04-01T01:32:22+00:00

Originally, at the beginning, feminism was a well-organised force for good (surely no one here can argue against that)

Well, I can argue with that.

And spreading the idea that hey, feminism might not be as good as it sells itself is also pretty important.

But yeah, whatever, let's move forward.

Daytheon · 2013-04-01T03:14:02+00:00

Be men

...uhhh...that ol'phrase

mrshootzy · 2013-04-01T03:25:25+00:00

I'm surprised that no one has made a petition yet to ban circumcision.

vaselinepete · 2013-04-01T04:45:18+00:00

Concern troll begone! By all that is holy and consecrated, I banish the fingers that typed this garbage to the ends of the earth!

Anpher · 2013-04-01T07:26:26+00:00

This is just a forum. An organization would be needed to affect any noticeable change.

wanttoseemycat · 2013-04-01T11:39:03+00:00

This post spends too much time complaining about the state of /r/mensrights and does nothing to change it.

JamesRyder · 2013-04-01T12:55:46+00:00

Nothing wrong with our message, judging by all the people that are telling us to stop we must be doing something right.

JoopJoopSound · 2013-04-01T14:16:20+00:00

>whiny, bitchy little boys

This is why we can't have nice things.

marauding-lunatic · 2013-04-01T15:01:26+00:00

It's unavoidable. Feminists are often at odds with men's rights, usually because they want discussion on gender issues to focus on women. Thus, they feel threatened by others focusing on mens issues. Victimhood is a major element in the feminist mentality, and it's difficult for them to have that if it's not all about the wemminz.

2013-04-01T21:12:15+00:00

I would agree that we need to do more than just complain about the people who downplay our problems. It appears tactless to the average person who is not that aware of the double standards and prejudice of modern mainstream feminism. Most people, to include myself just a year or two ago, thought feminism was simply people who want equality for women, so I considered myself a feminist. I've since learned about how they're behind laws and other policy that promote discriminatory male gender roles, and that the belief in "patriarchy" itself requires prejudice.

We focus on Feminism because they're actively standing in the way of equality. For all their talk about equality, most of them see no problem with the divorce/child-custody system, nor do they consider circumcision to be mutilation. I agree targeting bigoted feminists appears bad/misogynist to people who aren't as versed on the situation, but they're standing in the way of equality, and should be called out.

From my observations, we try doing productive things, like holding suicide/education seminars at colleges, try opening up men's centers equivalent to the women's centers, protest unjust laws and social norms (male + job with kids = potential pedo!, stay at home dad = lazy, etc)... but it's feminists standing in the way every single time.

tl;dr We'll stop targeting feminists when they stop being using the patriarchy card to excuse their own sexism and gender role enforcement on males.

jakedanielson · 2013-04-27T19:33:14+00:00

I am both a feminist and a men's rights activist. What this organization really needs to comprehend is that both organizations are half right and half wrong. Working together would really be best for everyone

stcredzero · 2013-03-31T19:58:42+00:00

I agree with pretty much all of this. My only complaint is the 'BE MEN' part. I can see why you did it, but it doesn't speak to the many female MRAs.

Otherwise though, fight on brother.

Unenjoyed · 2013-03-31T21:43:28+00:00

You seem to put your concerns as a matter of near absolutes. That's not going to go well for you.

Crimson_D82 · 2013-04-01T00:23:10+00:00

It's little wonder the MRM is seen as a group of whiny, bitchy little boys when there have been zero serious efforts to get organized and any time someone looks at this sub, there are more submissions about what's wrong with feminism, rather than what's right with the MRM.

1 Shame language detected, 2 Not true, there's lots of organized meetings as of late. How do you the UoT event came about?

It's embarrassing. Yes, feminism is (by and large) just a bunch of people infighting and shouting about things that don't matter... BUT, it wasn't always that way. Originally, at the beginning, feminism was a well-organised force for good (surely no one here can argue against that) and they still have that legacy which is why they get listened to. Their movement has lost its way. We need to take advantage of that. We cannot resort to their tactics and behaviors.

1 In fact I could. Google "feminism + Rothschild family" sometime. 2 I fully disagree. We should get more political and seek out new politicians who are running on a campaign platform of pro-fatherhood and pro-equality. That's what they did and that's why women have so many laws that favor them. I also have no problems with us doxxing them. They have destroyed entire families doing this, I say we should give them a taste of their own medicine. We simply need to use this tactic in good faith instead of going nuclear with it like they did.

Until we can get our shit together, stop focusing on other people and BE MEN, we're never going to make the gains in society we need to.

Shame language

The fact of the matter is you’ve triggered every one of my troll senses. A lot of other people here too have picked up on it as well. A great deal of what you’ve said basically adds up to ad hominem.

I’ve commented on this type of thing already.

Kikolin · 2013-04-01T11:53:01+00:00

You gotta understand something, the legions of manginas and beta male white knights are vast, they have been conditioned into believing being a feminized man is a being a true man. So part of campaigning towards mens rights is pointing out the damage parts of feminism have brought forward into our societies.

And yeah, it's hard to believe you have no secondary agenda with this post.

I will grant you a point though, more resources could be invested in making a practical stand against this social disease. Fathers For Life is a good example, if you are interested in doing something more you maybe you could inquire within their site

http://fathersforlife.org/

PowerWisdomCourage · 2013-04-01T14:05:06+00:00

This is not a Men's Rights subreddit problem, it's an internet problem. The lazy, cheap shots get the most recognition. You've completely overlooked that fact.

That said, it would be nice to spread knowledge of organizations, activism, etc. but it's also important to provide a place for men to air their grievances. Chances are, they don't have anywhere else they can speak openly about these issues.

ENTP · 2013-04-01T22:01:19+00:00

Feminism infests legislation, education, enforcement and the media.

We must address the problem.

Fighting feminism and feminist legislation and policies is EXTREMELY important to mens rights.

Fopenplop · 2013-04-05T02:17:14+00:00

I think the problem partially is Reddit itself.

Things Reddit is useful for:

Content aggregation
Funny pictures of animals
Circlejerking over political views, taste in video games, etc.

Things Reddit is terrible for:

Coordinated activism
Reasoned discussion and debate
Fact-checking

It just ain't gonna happen here. Sorry.

veedub447 · 2013-05-04T23:38:26+00:00

https://www.facebook.com/TheMensRightsInitiative

francis_hunter_brosh · 2013-03-31T22:53:33+00:00

Pretty much.

Fight back against the omega-whiners, they're considerably more numerous.

JudDredd · 2013-04-01T01:01:48+00:00

I read this sub daily but totally agree that the tone here is bitter and more negative to feminists than it is positive to MRAs

sultanate · 2013-04-01T01:54:52+00:00

This sub spends too much time complaining about feminism ...

feminism is (by and large) just a bunch of people infighting and shouting about things that don't matter... Their movement has lost its way. We need to take advantage of that.

Had me at the title. Lost me at the mixed message.

2013-03-31T22:50:36+00:00

I was thinking this earlier. Agree completely.

Tyrien · 2013-04-01T01:46:27+00:00

"but we need to be critical of feminism or else they won't know they're doing awful things!"

cptnroger · 2013-04-01T03:02:33+00:00

I agree with this sentiment. In many ways, we cause ourselves to be exactly what we hate - complaining in generalizing terms about those of the opposite gender.

We need to pull ahead from that and show that we're better than that, and that we actually deserve to have our rights. No better way to show that truth than by acting that way.

vaselinepete · 2013-04-01T05:42:49+00:00

I'm glad this was posted. Often times when I try to spread awareness of the MRM, all I really mention are legal things. One, because there's very little room for argument on things a quick google search can settle, and two, because the suggestion that there are bad parts of the male social role that require change makes most people stop listening.

I think one of the biggest problems with men is stunted emotional development. We are encouraged not to have feelings, most of the time by other men. Over time, this causes us to hide and internalize things until we explode, often in very bad ways. Since venting is seen as whiny and weak, the option we usually take is to just bottle things up.

When we get into relationships, it's the activation of a part of our being that is often neglected: the emotional side. The "real" us. Unfortunately, though, women tend to be turned off by men who share the same depth of insecurities and problems. Not even just that, but an emotional depth matching theirs. It's not inherent to women. It's just the natural response to a pleasant misconception they had being proved wrong. It must be remembered that we have to take a lot of responsibility for this misconception.

Still, it must not be forgotten that women can help aid in this change. I have met women who are totally fine with men being emotional, and I wish they'd speak up. I have friends I can talk to about anything, which is something everyone should be able to have. There's few things more liberating than talking to a woman who will let you open up without even so much as a judgmental glance.

As for the changes that need to be made, I think it all comes down to this:

Show that men can be useful, beneficial, and attractive with a healthy emotional spectrum.
Get rid of the idea that any gender has exclusive needs (other than obvious physical ones).

If anyone has any to add, please feel free.

squirtlekin · 2013-04-01T05:45:25+00:00

It's embarrassing. Yes, feminism is (by and large) just a bunch of people infighting and shouting about things that don't matter... BUT, it wasn't always that way. Originally, at the beginning, feminism was a well-organised force for good (surely no one here can argue against that)

Actually, I can argue against that.

I don't think you really know why we have problems with feminists.

anillop · 2013-04-01T15:10:22+00:00

This has always been this subs problem. There are far to many angry people here who don't want discussion about issues, they simply want to come her and express their anger. This will not change because the people here don't want change. Because of this most people around reddit think the whole mens rights movement is just a anit-feminist movement not a movement dedicated to gender equality. I hope you are ready for a bunch of hate to come your way because some of the people around here are just looking for someone to be angry at. Its sad because there are so many tings to be angry about, and injustices to fight against, but this sub concerns itself with fake facebook messages, and angry replies to feminist blogs.

2013-03-31T23:18:49+00:00

Thank you Vaselinepete, this is a post that comes up every now and again but I have yet to see such a shitstorm arise from it.

I absolutely agree with your post and its really disheartening to see thee top posts saying that there is no problem.

Corblimy · 2013-04-01T15:12:51+00:00

B-but I don't actually want to make a difference, just whine about women because I am so lonely. Hold me /r/MensRights

stcredzero · 2013-03-31T22:22:37+00:00

I want us (men, women, even the Canadians) to be better. The hate messages I'm getting, the deliberate misinterpretation of what I said... That is not getting better. And please believe me when I say, this isn't (buzzword warning) 'shaming language' - it's reality.

Entirely related to this, I often see a rather low level of rigor and clear thinking in this sub.

For a large population of this subreddit, the level of intellectual argument only needs to resemble logic, and doesn't need any level of precision. If it can pass muster as logic to an average 3rd grader, it's often accepted so long as there are enough appeals to emotion to go along with it. "Criticism" often only needs to address a bad approximation of the points being criticized.

Many people here contend that "feminism" is the proverbial "emperor with no clothes." If you're going to assert this, it's best not to be naked yourself. If you criticize some subset of feminists as being motivated by hate, then don't be motivated by hate. If you criticize some subset of feminists as abandoning logic, then don't abandon it yourself. If you're incensed at prejudicial behavior by women, then please beware when you find yourself making statements with the word All in them. (Especially if you justify it afterwards by saying, "It's not all, but it might as well be.")

Please get straight with your innermost self and conscience (and/or with your deity, if that's how you think of it) that you are motivated by what is right and fair. Don't fear the illogic and emotional appeals of others, and don't adopt such tactics yourself. That's not how people who actually know they're right will act. There is no better way to hurt a cause than to represent it badly. (And for heaven's sakes, please use a spell checker and get some editing help if your words are going out to the media and the public!)

Summary: Don't be a hypocrite.

Rourne · 2013-03-31T23:26:08+00:00

tl;dr: This isn't the subreddit your'e looking for.

You, myself and other like-minded folk don't really belong here. If you look on the sidebar, /r/ MensRights clearly states what this subreddit is for: "The Men's Rights subreddit is a place for those who wish to discuss men's rights and the ways said rights are infringed upon." Nowhere does it state that finding a solution is a priority or even a consideration; these people just want to complain.

It's shameful that /r/TwoXChromosomes is more egalitarian than Men'sRights (they strictly talk about female issues, but if you check their sidebar they clearly ban misandry) because I instinctively thought we'd be the more reasonable ones. Also, 2XC has substantially more followers than all of the other one-sided feminist subreddits combined, which says to me that targeting feminism isn't the answer because firstly it distracts from actually advocating men's rights, and secondly they're just a vocal minority.

It's funny, how easily it is to become what you fight against.

Xelief · 2013-04-01T00:39:51+00:00

My thoughts exactly. More and more each day I feel like this subreddit is turning into something like /r/atheism where it's just bunch of ignorant 12 year olds circlejerking over how much better they are than religious folks. Not every feminist is bad just as not every christian is retarded. A lot of people in this subreddit have quite a bit of growing up to do.

2013-04-01T01:02:15+00:00

Thank you.

CMOS222 · 2013-04-01T06:01:44+00:00

Yeah, you're right.

ThePigman · 2013-03-31T23:29:05+00:00

Another turd telling the rest of us what to do. Why do our gutless mods allow this kind of thing to waste our time? And who the fuck tells a bunch of MRAs to "be men," while pretending to be one of us? An idiot, that's who. Eat shit, OP, and fuck off.

BachStrad700 · 2013-03-31T21:39:34+00:00

ITT: Whiny little bitches who are too worried about the stupidity of RADICAL feminists to realize that they are the male equivalent. And that's coming from an egalitarian male.

jeffmacentire · 2013-04-01T00:53:45+00:00

I up voted did I help?

Swift3lade · 2013-03-31T20:48:13+00:00

Good luck man, mensrights is a joke. It is a juvenile boys club where the people here have nothing better to do other than nit pick every single little discriminatory claim that come towards them, no matter how small.

It isn't about moving forward with practical agendas. It makes us look like a bunch of morons. I 100% agree with you, yet look at all the flak you are recieving. It is almost as bad as the athiest sub where people sit around and make fun of religious people.

Why am I still subscribed to this sub? I have no idea. But my advice to you is to find a better group to invest your time and efforts.

All aboard the downvote train!

Title	This sub spends too much time complaining about feminism and not enough time pushing forward men's rights and changes in the treatment of men.
Author	vaselinepete
Upvotes	1319
Comments	378
Date	March 31, 2013 3:49 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1bd1dt/this-sub-spends-too-much-time-complaining-about-/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-sub-spends-too-much-time-complaining-about.1609446 https://theredarchive.com/post/1609446

Comments

BEING AGAINST FEMINISM IS CAMPAIGNING FOR MEN'S RIGHTS