[–]mensmod[M] [score hidden] 5 years ago stickied comment (59 children) | Copy Link

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Not really a coincidence, I mean before you got into all of this stuff you probably didn't even know anything about men's rights, whereas you probably knew a lot about feminism because they were the biggest propagators.

Who the spotlight falls on largely depends on who's holding it, currently feminist are pointing out the flaws of others (actual flaws) whilst hiding theirs behind their better members.

If that was hard to follow, feminist are the ones who are getting to make introductions, conveniently the feminist put forward are always good and make good points (when they need to), whereas MRAs are always presented by the members who make blatant misogynistic statements (actual people, but not the whole group). Naturally people are going to go against the precived misogynist and for the progressive.

I mean popular feminist don't openly agree that they are for FDS or male extermination when talking publicly.

It has nothing to do with political views or malice from a political party/corner.

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If I'm not mistaken MGTOW2 also had different mods, but still got banned at the same time

Not only that, but most of the posters in MGTOW2 were there because they said MGTOW was so toxic.

Now having said that, MGTOW2 was starting to let some bad posts thru lately. I tried to talk sense to them, and let them know that the anti-women rhetoric was a bad path, but since I have a girlfriend, I got downvoted pretty bad. lol

So on one hand, I def think it was reddit's "all men are bad" ideology that got MGTOW2 banned. On the other hand, I wasn't well recieved in MGTOW2 when I said being anti-women was no better than reddit being anti-male.

So I don't really care, and I sorta feel like saying "I told ya so!" So I'm kinda laugh-sighing.

BUT I definitely think the reddit hive mind thinks all white males automatically have keys to the kingdom, and as a result reddit is shutting down any talk whatsoever about not all white guys have advantages.

But fuck MGTOW, that sub was just an incel sub. MGTOW2 was trying to change the conversation, but didn't try hard enough, and got caught up in the MGTOW hysteria.

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That you say that so readily demonstrates only one thing: you never spent a moment over in that sub, you just absorbed the groupthink from all the SJW subs that paint MGTOW in the worst possible light.

Trust me, if you want to see some reprehensible dialogue, go over to those subs right now and see the glee that they're not doubt expressing over free speech once again being stamped on... as if the day it'll happen to them isn't off at some point in the future.

You're just a parrot for ideas you didn't create and beliefs you don't understand; a sad and tragic figure that's all too common in this day and age as free will is obviated to the mob.

Fortunately, we saw your stupidity coming from a mile off, and it wouldn't even matter if you silenced us all permanently, because MGTOW isn't a group or even a philosophy, it's a natural reaction to the foolishness and blatant double standard that women enjoy in this decadent and declining age; you wouldn't believe how many men are already MGTOW in all but name, and came to the sub with the exact same story arc. MGTOW are not the disease you think we are, we're a symptom of hypergamous overreach, and until that overreach is corrected by women, MGTOW will spontaneously form regardless of how much communication the tech giants permit.

Edit: also, not for nothing u/Jemima_Snuggleduck, but a guy who's on the record as having suffered a makeshift pocket pussy malfunction referring to MGTOW as Incels is about as hilarious as you can possibly imagine. Like, dude, don't comment on men when your Incelling is nth-tier. Now, go head over to TwoX and cry about it.

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[–]Fast_Box_85091 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Maybe.

I'm experienced and I still have a problem with how lopsided the rules are for men and women. Some of that anger doesn't go away.

The difference between me, and those nutbars who flooded into MGTOW and MGTOW 2 before they were banned is that I know better than to dump all my grievances into a public place and run it through a filter.

The problem is that all MGTOW is lumped in with the Rage and so entire communities are shut down because people, particularly feminists, are too lazy to understand what’s happening within those spaces because generalizing the whole thing is much easier.

That's the crux of the problem. Feminists, as a general rule, think themselves a great deal more clever than men in general, so if there's a way they'll twist words and simplify with strawmen arguments to make their opponents look bad, that's going to be their first recourse.

You'd think that seeing this happen so much, the fellas in MGTOW communities would be extremely careful about what they share with the world, but no, it turns into another variation on woe-is-me like the Incel communities.

This sequence of events, unfortunately, is very difficult to avoid, because most men come to find MGTOW communities in a crisis or a great deal of pain, after some horrible thing happened to them.

I think, to an extent, there needs to be more empathy, but there's only so much of that you can get in an online forum, so some internal policing of content would be a great alternative.

I hate to say it, but if MGTOW doesn't figure out how tone down the misogyny and red pill rage within its own ranks, it's going to keep getting banned because Misogynist Merle doesn't have a filter and nobody shuts him down before he gives everyone a bad name by running his mouth until some feminist with a grudge grabs it and makes an article on "Buzzly.girlygirl" about it and gets everything shut down.

[–]Fast_Box_85091 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No. But there's a time and place for anger - productive anger.

Anyone with even a shriveled nub of a prefrontal cortex has enough restraint to stop victim-puking and hysterically musing about committing violent acts against women. And that's always what happened in those subs.

They'd start out reasonable enough and then the nutbars who couldn't be reasoned with would start coming in, posting repulsive shit, begging to get the whole thing taken down and banned.

You'd call someone out on something and instead of acknowledging they were veering into crazy-town with their categorical condemnations of women, they'd dig in and it'd get ugly.

Both MGTOW subs were like this. On an account I've since closed, I was banned from MGTOW for questioning the thinking behind one of those tired "cock carousel" memes alleging Jennifer Lawrence "hit the wall" at 26, using two out of context photos as 'proof.'

And we might see a guy letting a tirade about 'those hypergamous bitches' as a classic case of red pill rage, but anyone uninitiated and unaware comes in and that shit looks a lot like misogyny - and we know how long anything stays up when it's branded with that scarlet letter on social media.

I remember checking in with MGTOW 1 and 2 pretty often, and too much of their content entailed men venting, writing things they shouldn't have put somewhere public and those boneheaded juxtaposition memes about sticking it to women who rejected them in high school.

Just the most puerile shit.

Women are allowed to hate men openly yet men are only allowed to do it privately? Seems a bit wrong.

Yeah, man - we're as outraged about this as you are, but it doesn't justify what a lot of members of those banned subs would do - and would do again, if given the opportunity.

It's riotously unfair, but to shoot yourself in the foot over unfair, asymmetrical policies on a website is just stupid, and self-destructive.

If it were just men reasonably expressing frustration about how lopsided the rules are, that'd be great - we all know it wasn't just that.

[–]Fast_Box_85091 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Red pill rage is what keeps killing these online communities.

They're fine until these guys with mommy-issues come in and start talking encouragingly about violence against women and other out-to-lunch crazy shit.

It's happened here and it happened in other communities outside of Reddit.

Case in Point is (or rather, was) the Cheateau Heartiste (formerly Chateau Roissy/ Citizen Renegade) blog.

It started out a great critique of sexual dynamics with a bit of politics and game worked into it. A great spot. One of those internet locker rooms where guys could be guys.

Then, the original author (some dude with a public service job in DC) left, and and the blog changed hands.

The most recent owners and authors ran it into the ground when they got their claws into it, and the comment section turned into a reactionary, pro-Trump racist genocidal victim-puke.

Inevitably Wordpress gave them the boot. Absolute morons, whoever the last people to run the blog were.

One would think men in male communities would learn their goddamned lesson the first few times they allow bat-shit-crazy voices to ruin the conversation, and they get cancelled by the tone police and bluehairs - but no.

They don't, they keep allowing the same idiots to come in and give everyone a bad name, and I've spent years roving from online community to community watching the same thing happen over and over. It's like Groundhog Day but far more depressing.

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Not surprising. Most people ended up on MGTOW2 after being banned from MGTOW because a mod thought for some reason that they were too soft (the funny part being that this was often quite arbitrary and really weird sometimes).

Even MGTOW ultimately wasn't that racist (since it's the example you used) on average, probably less so than some "common" subreddits I've had the delight to see. I can't see this being the reason for the ban, otherwise, half of reddit would have to be deleted as well. Even "mainstream" subs can go way worse.

But yeah, the fact that mgtow2, which was another beast entirely and could be described as a "more PC mgtow", was banned tells you everything you need to know about why it was banned. It wasn't about racism, misogyny, or anything of the sort. Even if you see MGTOW being banned as a good thing for your own reasons (I won't discuss that), it's not a good sign, because if even mgtow2 got kicked out as well (which again was a "shelter" for the ones "exiled" from mgtow), there's one thing that is fairly certain; the reason it got banned isn't what you're thinking about.

MGTOW ending up banned doesn't surprise me that much. MGTOW2 being banned as well is a very bad sign, though, and show that this wasn't done for "legitimate" reasons.

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When things start collapsing they'll beg for help

"They" being women? Doubtful. Women will still gravitate toward the same kinds of aggressive, unemotional, ambitious men they already flock to today.

Women don't hate the patriarchy - they hate the fact that they have so little control over how much they crave a strong patriarchal hand, paired with good genes, social status and the rest of that grocery list of shit they want in men.

Men are the first to put other men under the bus if they think that will lead them to bed with women.

This will be just as bad, if not worse, if society starts to collapse. If the power grid goes down, supply chains stop and civil infrastructure and services like health care and policing go down the shitter, things will get a lot worse. Men will do much worse to one another for the vain hope of access to a good, fertile womb.

Nobody with a clue what that will entail wants that to happen. This quasi-prepper "where will you women turn when shit hits the fan?" stuff needs to die now.

I prefer running water, power and healthcare. If you don't, that's your prerogative, but I don't think you're giving proper consideration to just how shitty your life will become if society collapses.

I hesitate to affect a smug attitude about this because I've tried to go off-grid on occasion and it sucks. Bathing, eating - everything - becomes a big goddamn procedure. And imagine those difficulties while dozens of other people are regularly trying to steal all your shit and/or kill and eat you.

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To suggest life more than 50 years ago was "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short" is not based in objective truth.

Humans were typically better connected to one another and their environment as they were more dependant on one another, far from "solitary".

"poor" is a construct of a monetary society, for much of history "poor" did not exist, people were not enslaved to objects. - depending on the part of the world they were in hunter-gatherers running around in palm leaves for clothes were actually better fed than the average american in many cities today.

Life expectancy has never been "short", the lowest its been recorded was 40 and thats because infant mortality was super high. if you survived past child birth 200 years ago you could still realistically expect to live until 60, and many people still lived to be 80.

Nasty and brutish? these ones are true

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FDS is hypergamy in real time. And since hypergamy is the most sacrosanct of biological directives women follow, it's untouchable.

I don't like this, you don't like this - nobody likes this - but it is what it is. Getting angry about this like getting mad because water's wet.

It's not going to change - that's how engrained female interests are in the cultural narrative.

And that is how communities like MGTOW were born

Exactly. The reason FDS is given so much leniency, despite being a repository of pure hatred is the same reason we need to be more careful and make sure we can maintain spaces like this sub, because we need to be having frank conversations about how expendable and secondary most men are considered to be by society and the women it caters to.

Where do these disparities between men and women get discussed and questioned, if not here?

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I’m trying to get a feel (for myself) for what these subs are all about. My impression of Red Pill (years ago) based on my limited observation was that it was toxic because it seemed like the focus was to control women.

I don’t know anything about MGTOW except that I thought it was men who had been hurt so badly by women that they decided to opt out of dating.

If you went on MGTOW because of toxic women, I wouldn’t assume there is something wrong with you. I would guess that you were deeply hurt by one woman or several women and needed to keep yourself safe.

Wasn’t that supposed to be the point of it? To focus on bettering oneself? If I judged you, that’s blaming the victim.

I figure these FDS ladies are the same, I’d wager, for the most part. A lot of women who got hurt by guys who dragged them down. Seems like that’s why they focus on only letting men into their lives that add some value to their lives.

I’d rather a woman decided I had no value and walked away, than if she ensnared me and used me up and then tossed me aside.

I thought MGTOW had decided that women aren’t adding value to their lives, so they’re not letting low value women in.

Idk what you’re insinuating about taking a step back from my feelings. I’m being mindful and intentional and that’s a good thing.

[–]reverbiscrap 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Glossus_inBuccinator 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Here’s how I see it. My coworker is a good looking woman. She gets hit on by a lot of guys. I see dudes show up in the clinic and suddenly lose 10 IQ points around her because they are so horny for her and it drives her nuts. I’m not interested because she’s a lot younger than me and it would feel like dating my daughter so I’m not into that at all. But it’s embarrassing to watch some of these guys, especially when they are patients or family of patients focusing on dating her which is totally inappropriate. If she’s not interested in some guy who looks like the inbred cousin of Bert from Sesame Street and was a high school dropout, then some of them get angry with her and can’t handle the rejection.

My first wife was killed by a drunk driver and I didn’t have the career I have now when I met her. Maybe when I was younger, I probably spent a lot of time looking in the mirror fixing my hair so I could be “good enough” for her, but I’m not putting all my energy into trying to something I’m not these days. I think women are turned off by a guy who’s looking in the mirror too much or showing off his wallet.

I have a decent job. I am not horrible to look at. I also know that if there is a second Mrs Glossus, then she’ll be interested in me because I’m a good friend and partner, just like I was to the first Mrs Glossus.

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So I’ve been talking to my coworker and also reading through the stuff over there, and they call scummy dudes “scrotes.” I’m not saying that is okay. It’s objectifying and gross. It’s no different than male incels calling women “rosaries,” so I’m not excusing it.

But I’m not going to jump on the mindless hate/fear bandwagon based on misinformation.

They’re not looking for love from men they see as abusers, users, and losers. I can understand that. I’m not looking for love from an abusive, user, loser woman, either. I probably wouldn’t talk to my friends about that kind of trashy woman using a name like “roastie” or “scrote” or anything like that— although plenty of males do.

And those incel groups will call all women “roasties” and desperately want to screw even the women they hate.

The angry FDS chicks don’t want to have sex or date the kind of man they hate.

I haven’t seen anything yet about them thinking men who don’t want to date being a drain on society, so I’ll have to look for that.

I don’t get the sense that the point is to manipulate a man out of his money and possessions. I think that’s just a cliche that all men are (understandably) afraid of.

The old saying that men use women for sex and women use men for their wallet is true. Women are afraid of the former. Men are afraid of the latter.

From talking to my coworker, it sounds like the point is to not date a man that’s going to make them feel like they’re a grown man’s mommy and have to financially support him while also raising babies or something like that. They don’t want to have sex with a man who could get them pregnant and then have a dead beat baby daddy and then also not be able to date any other man because men don’t want to date single mothers.

I get all of that.

When I was on RedPill, I saw advice for how to make a woman want to have sex with you all the time. Based on what my coworker explains, this FDS group is meant to protect them from men who just want to coerce sex out of them without commitment and they want to avoid marrying a guy who can’t pull his own weight.

I just wonder if guys aren’t afraid that FDS is a cult of the kind of women who may have hurt us and just want to use us for our wallets.

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That's such a idiotic take. Plenty if subreddits are for talking about stuff and not actually showing off you doing that particular thing.

Are you going to cry because /r/guitar and /r/bass is mostly people talking about buying instruments and posting pictures instead of actually playing? Hell they even talk negativity about some brands!! Omg ban them I can't even

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Hahah, no so mgtow subs were the ones that got banned. Like over 10 of them. But yes ‘mgtowban’s’ sole existence is to constantly scour mgtow subreddits ALL day and night, 24/7, lurking, wasting their time, because they’re afraid of men having their own opinion and not caring about women, bringing women off the pedestal, and focusing on their individuality and and freedom and their own hobbies and direction in life, that they so desire to ban them

They disguise it as fighting misogyny and toxicity, which, sure, mgtow1 had some of. Maybe even 50% was a bit toxic. The rest was just men sharing memes and experiences and articles and news

But mgtow2? Like barely 2% of it was at all toxic. So many of the posters kept each other in check. And yet they still got it banned. And they want ALL of the manosphere banned. That should tell you all you need to know. They are blatant sexist and misandrists and toxic themselves. They believe men are violent and bad and should not be able to congregate and talk within themselves. For if we do, we must be up to no good. Or whatever bullshit they believe. But no self reflection upon what they’re doing. Further dividing and pushing men away.

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I think it's important to cover what controlled opposition means.

A controlled opposition is a protest movement that is actually being led by government agents. Nearly all governments in history have employed this technique to trick and subdue their adversaries. Notably Vladimir Lenin who said "The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves."

Imagine leading a rebellion within a country, but it's actually controlled by the country's agents.

And r/MensLib is pretty much that, because it's Men's "Rights" controlled by male feminists.

Imagine "addressing" men's issues but never ever offending women or ever even hinting at blaming them.

The censorship shows how controlled it is:
https://removeddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/ihixrt/correcting_a_common_misconception_about_venting/g30r8rd/

Basically it's what this guy says.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/ox8h0u/rmgtow_has_been_banned/h7nt61h/

/r/MensLib is men's rights if the first and most important rule of men's rights was to never say anything that might offend a woman or not align with feminist orthodoxy.

Imagine a feminist sub being held to a gender flipped version of that. You can't, because it's completely absurd? Huh. Why demand men be held to that as a minimum to be "not toxic" then?

And then there's the overlap with TwoX and other subs. It's such a weird connection to subs dominated by women, isn't it? If you'll notice, this sub doesn't have the same overlap.

https://np.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/ox8h0u/rmgtow_has_been_banned/h7m5gbg/

Case here: a user of r/trollxchromosomes is 25x more likely to be subscribed to that sub

[–]Glossus_inBuccinator 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Yithar 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure why you said "See". I specifically mentioned feminists in my comment, not women. I only mentioned women to point out that r/MensLib acts in a way as to never offend women.

I'd say Men's Right is related to fighting certain feminists, like ones that legally define rape to exclude men. Feminists can be both men and women though, hence why my previous comment said "male feminists." I'm pretty sure all the /r/MensLib mods are male, but not 100% sure on that.

I'd argue that this sub isn't necessarily against women being here or anything, as long as they support Men's Rights:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/iiwdxa/dear_women_your_opinions_have_value_and_are/

I’m curious how men’s rights could not be men versus women.

If you read the thread I linked, there are mothers who posted in there because they were worried about their sons. Does that seem like a women vs men thing? Also, it doesn't really make sense to invite women here to post their opinions if it was about men vs women.

[–]Glossus_inBuccinator 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I went back to your previous comment because I’m really trying hard to untangle all of this. I looked again at the link to deleted stuff.

I have to say, I agree there is a difference between venting emotions versus blaming women. I’ve been to a lot of therapy and blaming oneself or others isn’t helpful. Looking for responsibility is helpful. Sharing and validating needs and feelings is helpful. Working toward solutions is helpful. But blaming is toxic.

Blaming is abusive, and we know that men can be blamed for many things.

Conflating “blaming” with “offending” is a mistake. They’re not the same thing. When talking about emotional or important issues, sometimes people will feel uncomfortable or offended. That’s just how it is. Deal with it. But blaming should be avoided.

That Men’s Lib post seems to be talking about how it’s counterproductive to blame.

I’ve seen families that get caught up in a whirlpool of blame and I’ve worked in toxic jobs that are a daily exercise in the blame game, just looking for the next scapegoat. It’s all just pointless toxicity. I’m trying to teach my son how to share his feelings without blaming.

The school teaches him to say, “I feel” instead of “You are (such a an a-hole and everything is all your fault)”

The reason I said “see” is because I’m trying to suss out what the user base of this sub believes because I want to find out for myself, and where I feel I belong, and what is going to nurture me following the healthy path I want to follow.

If it’s not a women versus men thing, then what is it? A men versus patriarchy thing? That would be ironic. Or just men versus feminists? It seems like this movement needs an enemy to align against and feminists are a convenient figure to throw stones at.

I have know feminists that are chill and I haven’t met feminists that aren’t so I’m really struggling here, man. This is important to me and I’m trying really hard to feel comfortable.

[–]Yithar 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

That Men’s Lib post seems to be talking about how it’s counterproductive to blame.

I linked it specifically to point out The_Grubby_One's response: Gotcha. Don't talk about your feelings to *anyone*. If you're a man, keep your emotions to yourself.

Do you really think someone would say "don't talk about your feelings to anyone" if it was simply about blaming and not venting?

Sure, there's probably some blaming as well and OP did mention that in her post. But just from searching the thread, there are 203 counts of the word "vent" and 15 counts of "blam". So you're kind of focusing on the blaming part, when most other people read it as saying not to vent your frustrations at all.

The point of me linking that was to show how the mod team on r/MensLib censors in order to not offend women. Which means even if a woman is arguing in bad faith, you can't call her out on arguing in bad faith. I'd argue it's harmful to say that one shouldn't vent. Blaming might not be, but venting is healthy in moderate amounts.

I'm not really sure why you said "Conflating “blaming” with “offending” is a mistake". I'm saying the comment "Gotcha. Don't talk about your feelings to anyone" is censored in order to not offend women. I linked Removeddit, which shows removed posts. This is the same comment thread, but in real time. Search for "Gotcha". You won't see it, because the comment was censored.

Here, I'll link Removeddit and Reddit side by side starting from The_Grubby_One's comment:
https://www.removeddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/ihixrt/correcting_a_common_misconception_about_venting/g3103kk/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/ihixrt/correcting_a_common_misconception_about_venting/g3103kk/

The reason I said “see” is because I’m trying to suss out what the user base of this sub believes because I want to find out for myself, and where I feel I belong, and what is going to nurture me following the healthy path I want to follow.

As Gaston-Glockside stated, people can have very different ideas of what being a patriot means. So just saying "See" to me probably won't tell you what you want to know.

Or just men versus feminists? It seems like this movement needs an enemy to align against and feminists are a convenient figure to throw stones at.

I have know feminists that are chill and I haven’t met feminists that aren’t so I’m really struggling here, man. This is important to me and I’m trying really hard to feel comfortable.

Feminists are a convenient figure? I linked a thread listing specific feminists who have harmed Men's Rights. They're people responsible for harm so they're not bogeymen.

The issue is that feminism is so general it's hard to know what someone means when they say they're a feminist. It's sort of like when someone tells you they're liberal. It doesn't really tell you much of anything.

I have an online friend from Twitter who lives in Seattle and is happily married. She considers herself a feminist, but I don't think much of it when she says it, because feminism is so broad.

Maybe it might help you to think of Men's Rights fighting bad feminists who work to do things like exclude men from the legal definition of rape (so a woman "raping" a man is legally forced penetration and not rape) or keep child custody with the mother?

Also, there are some feminists who believe in female superiority and that men are responsible for all things evil. So it might help to keep in mind that not all feminists are good.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3mdi8m/serious_where_did_the_incorrect_notion_that/cve3fdx/

EDIT: Stopping here because it feels like someone who hasn't gotten over their ex and they're like "Convince me to date you." I realize now, I don't really care to do that because they have their own ingrained beliefs about feminism.

[–]Glossus_inBuccinator 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

“Oh okay, so I just won’t talk about my feelings!” is an immature response that I would get from my teenage son when he’s out of control and lashing out.

Like a lot of teenagers who are learning emotional intelligence and emotional competence, he will sometimes lash out with stuff like how I’m a massive piece of shit and everything is all my fault. I can tolerate it for a bit, but there comes a point where enough is enough.

Tell me how you feel upset that you couldn’t stay out with your girlfriend past 2am because you’re lonely and need to be held rather than two more hours of what a garbage piece of shit father I am.

Telling someone that they are shit and everything is all their fault isn’t talking about feelings. It’s caustic. It’s not emotional maturity.

I don’t stop him because I am “offended.” I stop him because he’s not going to be heard and understood with just mindless verbal violence, and it will be even worse when it’s someone who’s not his father.

Maybe a lot of people misread the original post because a lot of young men are deprived of learning emotional maturity early on. We’re taught not to feel and not to talk, and no one is there to listen or care, so all we know how to do is lash out and blame everyone (including our fathers) for being shit heads.

[–]Yithar 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That Men’s Lib post seems to be talking about how it’s counterproductive to blame.

I linked it specifically to point out The_Grubby_One's response: Gotcha. Don't talk about your feelings to *anyone*. If you're a man, keep your emotions to yourself.

Do you really think someone would say "don't talk about your feelings to anyone" if it was simply about blaming and not venting?

Sure, there's probably some blaming as well and OP did mention that in her post. But just from searching the thread, there are 203 counts of the word "vent" and 15 counts of "blam". So you're kind of focusing on the blaming part, when most other people read it as saying not to vent your frustrations at all.

The point of me linking that was to show how the mod team on r/MensLib censors in order to not offend women. Which means even if a woman is arguing in bad faith, you can't call her out on arguing in bad faith. I'd argue it's harmful to say that one shouldn't vent. Blaming might not be, but venting is healthy in moderate amounts.

I'm not really sure why you said "Conflating “blaming” with “offending” is a mistake". I'm saying the comment "Gotcha. Don't talk about your feelings to anyone" is censored in order to not offend women. I linked Removeddit, which shows removed posts. This is the same comment thread, but in real time. Search for "Gotcha". You won't see it, because the comment was censored.

Here, I'll link Removeddit and Reddit side by side starting from The_Grubby_One's comment:
https://www.removeddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/ihixrt/correcting_a_common_misconception_about_venting/g3103kk/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/ihixrt/correcting_a_common_misconception_about_venting/g3103kk/

The reason I said “see” is because I’m trying to suss out what the user base of this sub believes because I want to find out for myself, and where I feel I belong, and what is going to nurture me following the healthy path I want to follow.

As Gaston-Glockside stated, people can have very different ideas of what being a patriot means. So just saying "See" to me probably won't tell you what you want to know.

Or just men versus feminists? It seems like this movement needs an enemy to align against and feminists are a convenient figure to throw stones at.

I have know feminists that are chill and I haven’t met feminists that aren’t so I’m really struggling here, man. This is important to me and I’m trying really hard to feel comfortable.

Feminists are a convenient figure? I linked a thread listing specific feminists who have harmed Men's Rights. They're people responsible for harm so they're not bogeymen.

The issue is that feminism is so general it's hard to know what someone means when they say they're a feminist. It's sort of like when someone tells you they're liberal. It doesn't really tell you much of anything.

I have an online friend from Twitter who lives in Seattle and is happily married. She considers herself a feminist, but I don't think much of it when she says it, because feminism is so broad.

Maybe it might help you to think of Men's Rights fighting bad feminists who work to do things like exclude men from the legal definition of rape (so a woman "raping" a man is legally forced penetration and not rape) or keep child custody with the mother?

Also, there are some feminists who believe in female superiority and that men are responsible for all things evil. So it might help to keep in mind that not all feminists are good.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3mdi8m/serious_where_did_the_incorrect_notion_that/cve3fdx/

[–]Yithar 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure why you said "See". I specifically mentioned feminists in my comment, not women. I only mentioned women to point out that r/MensLib acts in a way as to never offend women.

I'd say Men's Right is related to fighting certain feminists, like ones that legally define rape to exclude men. Feminists can be both men and women though, hence why my previous comment said "male feminists." I'm pretty sure all the /r/MensLib mods are male, but not 100% sure on that.

I'd argue that this sub isn't necessarily against women being here or anything, as long as they support Men's Rights:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/iiwdxa/dear_women_your_opinions_have_value_and_are/

I’m curious how men’s rights could not be men versus women.

If you read the thread I linked, there are mothers who posted in there because they were worried about their sons. Does that seem like a women vs men thing? Also, it doesn't really make sense to invite women here to post their opinions if it was about men vs women.

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Everything you mentioned isn't racism

Those are competitive advantages. Racism is racism. Any racist in a position of power, no matter the race, can do harmful things. See Zimbabwe and their farm fiasco. In America we tend to think white people cannot be victimized just because there's some white people in places of power and that's just wrong. Anyone can be victimized by anyone, but that's NOT just a function of Racism. There's sexism, tribalism (gang wars), colorism, and even Europeans were distinguished by nation and religion (Kennedy being a Catholic was a shock to America's system).

Discrimination is a part of the human condition, period. Racism isn't okay from black to white. Sexism and domestic violence isn't okay from women to men. The fact that this is a hot take shows that your liberal mindset doesn't actually want equality, because if all things were equal it'd arguably be a healthier mindset for everyone

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You're intentionally justifying black racism against whites and female violence against men.

I'm explaining that it's logical and reasonable to hold different groups to different standards based on relevant factors, and that groups with different experiences and power levels are impacted differently by the same issues. That's reality.

That's not the same as justifying black racism against whites, which I think is a bizarre interpretation of my comments but at least I can see how you drew the conclusion. The comment about women's violence against men is totally out of left field though.

Wanna have a go at explaining those statements? Or are you going to do what you've done every other time I've pointed out that you're talking nonsense: Move along without facing reality?

I'm unsurprised at your retreat. After all, the underlying issue with reasoning failures like the ones I've been pointing out to you is usually a lack of bravery to face truths that challenge preconceptions.

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Front page of TwoXChromosomes, translated from unbannable misandry into bannable misogyny just by flipping genders:

Fed up of having to accommodate women’s anger

I am dating on Tinder which is grim for a number of reasons, but this morning I had to stay smiling and sweet in the face of a woman’s unjustified anger and I am fed up with it. This lady and I matched. We texted a tiny little bit yesterday about pets, where we have lived, where we came from, etc and then she asked for a date. I told her I never meet in real life without an online meeting first. She winged a bit (“This is a first for me”, “Online is so impersonal”) but agreed. So this morning we met online. The discussion was extremely boring, so after 10 minutes I said that it had been lovely to meet her, but I didn’t think we had a spark and wished him all the best on her dating journey. ..at which point she got angry. Apparently she knew online wouldn’t work, I didn’t give her a real chance, etc. And I had to keep smiling and apologizing because I couldn’t risk angering further an angry lady who might be able to find me in real life. I couldn’t say “Frack off you entitled, boring p@#$&*” like I wanted to say. And I am fed up women expect us to absorb their anger and smile back at them just because they are scary. They should just not be scary! EDIT: Thank you very much for the awards! For those of you asking why I didn’t tell him to fuck off…it all happened very quickly, she switched from boring to angry and all I could think about was “How much does she know about me? Can she find me?”. She probably cannot find me, but it was difficult to decide that in the moment, think about and then react, I just reacted on instinct. And I have some past history with an angry woman which, I know, influences my reactions… The online meet is an absolute must before meeting in real life. I would urge everyone to make it a firm boundary. Stay safe!

Flipper's note: This is actually a realistic experience for many men who date. An angry blind date that doesn't want to call it quits can ruin your night or your life in a multitude of ways, having a drink thrown in your face is the least of those. And men just have to accept it up until we get our windows busted and tyres slashed

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You are ignoring the normalisation though.

Unless you are ignoring the fact that a woman can publically abuse their male partner and have no one do anything.

This is a real issue, and it seems many people (women and men) would rather brush this kinda of stuff under the rug whenever it's brough up and instead say "yh but women have it worse".

This is literally the MensRights subreddit. Think about this.... if even here you can't discuss issues that affect men... then where can you.

Also, studies like the one you linked are not accurate. There isn't a support system for male victims of domestic abuse and often times they feel less masculine for voicing their struggles. Where as for women it is empowering. So... you shouldn't expect men to report domestic violence to the same degree.

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Right now people are angry, so this is logical but not a fun answer. I'm sure there's a lot of subs they don't like, but it comes down to bad press which costs them money. There haven't been any women incel shootings, so no negative press, so they don't care.

Right now the news is painting WSB as David fighting Goliath, good press for them. Market manipulation is for the SEC, and so far nothing is happening there. The R-word is moderator choice, not admin. Admins don't step in until it site-wide, and even then only with bad press.

Blackpeopletwitter allows in anyone who has a positive comment history in their sub, regardless of skin color. You can talk to their mods and confirm it. It's a similar method of content control in liberal and conservative subs through the site.

These are not fun answers, but they're real answers. China owns half of Reddit. There are investors, it has a value, the money must be protected. Everything else is secondary.

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Reddit is a website for women and teens.

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You are fucking insane. I'm a 29 yo guy with an enormous wealth of experience with women. I don't hate women, I just don't want to date them anymore because of the exact mentality people like you have. It is no longer beneficial to me to expend so much time, money, and energy into an incredibly inequal power structure created by third wave feminism and radical left wing ideologies promoting bullshit in the media as a result of virtue signaling.

Mgtow is a place for men like me, to help adapt themselves to a new environment that we have been massively mislead about our entire lives in order to live productive, and happy lives, where we aren't trodden on, disrespected, and taken advantage of.

You're a 16yo girl, you have no idea what you're talking about, and people like you have taken away a place for me to discuss my fucking emotions and life with other men who have been hurt the same way.

Go fuck yourself.

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You're an idiot and a liar. The sub had posts about everything, and hundreds of thousands of members from all over the world. There were people talking about work, about politics, about relationships, about divorce, books, emotional issues, everything. There were men counseling each other through difficult stuff. And here the thing you really won't like because you're an angry control freak -- MGTOW had no leaders, no ideology and above all, no real rules. Nobody could tell anyone what to post. We had a saying that we didn't recruit people -- we just watched them arrive, which they did. What really happened was that we didn't agree with your little lefty ideology of silencing people we disagreed with, so sooner or later, we had to be shot, and we were. We knew this was coming. People like you absolutely hate real free speech, and really can't tolerate the diversity that actually matters, which is diversity of thought.

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I am truly sorry for this. It was a controversial sub and there was crap of course, like in any other sub, yet one could find gems and also help. It’s sad that it’s been shut down. Many men will miss the help that sub was providing.

As to FDS, well, its success is the same of r/trashy. People do not go there for advice or help. They go there for the gross show. So I guess it’s more popular. Being popular and being helpful are separate things. Reddit knows the difference and goes for popular. So it’s not helpful.

My final take on this one is that Reddit is just what it is, trashy. Serious discussions should happen elsewhere. Reddit’s business model is just about making money out of trashy discussions focussing of Gen Z’s hatred for dividing topics. They (Reddit) follow the mainstream. They are followers. They do not know where society is going. Just making money now hoping to survive the next day. And it’s big money right now. Anyway, sorry for the long post. And thanks. Any and all of you

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tbh I never saw anything on there that would qualify as "hate". I've seen far worse on feminist subreddits and feminist groups on Facebook.

What I did see that probably contributed to the ban was men sharing stories of why they don't or no longer date or marry. These stories would typically involve bad experiences for example being screwed left/right/centre by the divorce courts or their wife would turn out to be a psycho and make the guy's life hell, or express concern with the current dating scene where so many women expect the man to be a walking ATM, things like that.

This sort of thing isn't what the feminist narrative (which now controls the media and the biggest websites) wants to hear. Feminists only want to hear stories about how men are violent oppressors and how women are oppressed victims as it helps their agenda. This is why they are so desperate to silence any platforms where men talk about their negative experiences.

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r/beyondMGTOW

We do not condonde blatantly mysoginistic ideas, it is not a secret mgtow men start out resentful. the goal is to move past that. should we not have a space to discuss these ideas? KNOWING that the GOAL is to heal that trauma? mgtow and redpill get a bad rap for good reasons, but that doesnt men theres no rescuable ideas here. Society shames "fragile lonely men" and they keep humilliating them because they dont "get any”, driving the knife in deeper yet they expect them to take that defeat gracefully most mgtow men ARE defeated, yes they rensent women for REAL reasons, because theyre hurt that they essentially dont cut it. IE, arnt worth anything in the eyes of women. the idea for a healthy mgtow, would be to teach men to have more dignity, to stop throwing themselves so desperately at women. mgtow is about teaching men that they create their own problems with women by not valuing themselves enough to have any standards. to not care about the disrespect they voluntarily endure just because theyre so blinded by "pussy" true mgtow actually strives to show men to demand more from women because theyre CAPABLE of more. if men bitch so much about how women have nothing to offer and are a waste of time, show no effort or interest, isnt that a problem with men being taught to appreciate only these types of girls? were better than this, were better than you know who…we are MEN we take responsibility for our actions.yeah, we fucked up, we fucked up prioritizing women who were arrogant as fuck and took us for granted. that’s our beef. But you know what? We already learned that lesson as little kids.we’ve been toughened up, physically and emotionally.don’t give them want they want.if their only qualm with mgtow is that we talk about them nonstop and are mysoginistic, lets show them the real deal when we literally don’t even acknowledge them anymore.there are women in this world that appreciate men and respect us, as we were taught to respect them, but they get pushed into the shadows because they’re not the typical narcissistic pedantic barbie with a fat ass.our beef is with these shallow girls, not true intelligent women. In the end, the point is to heal our hurt and realize they do not deserve out time. We are unaffected, we are truly uninterested.“I AM A CASTLE WITH A SOLID ROCK FOUNDATION, I AM NOT AFFECTED BY THE CHANGING OF TIDES”

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Custody Costs & Cabernet”

She cheated and lied, but I pay the price,

Court says “fork it over” ain’t that nice?

She’s rich off her daddy, and spoiled since birth,

Yet I gotta pay just to show my kids their worth.

Her mom’s on the porch with a wine glass in hand,

Sippin’ on Cabernet, judging the land.

Living off others, no need for remorse,

stroking the mane of her therapy horse.

She shops like a hobby, spins cash like a game,

Dodging the taxes but quick with the blame.

Sold off our home for handbags and rings,

Traded love’s roots for designer things.

She dines on my dimes eating organic steak,

Entitled and bitter, a dynasty fake.

Daddy pays her bills, and they call it “grace,”

While I fight for a hug, just a weekend embrace.

But love ain’t for sale, and I won’t be outbid,

I’ll fight every battle just to stay with my kids.

So pour her another, and saddle that mare,

I’ll be in court, showing my daughters I care.

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Here is the thing. For males, the ones in position of power actually benefit from this degeneracy. For the business class, broken families mean more workers and more consumers for their businesses. The politicians are just power brokers; they adopt the popular narrative i.e feminism to gain power and then resell it to business class for money. No one is going to risk losing money and power to challenge anything. Also, degeneracy also means easy sex for these people.

Unfortunately females and these men are not really the ones running the society and producing things. If a majority of men go MGTOW, society basically grinds to a halt. Like imagine if there's no family to take care of, why would any man want to do anything risky; go to wars, do dangerous labor to keep an infrastructure in place etc. You can already see the effects of this with population declining the west and inability to even build houses.

Now the globalists: including these top men and feminists have been able to hack the system by bringing in immigrants from places where the family unit is place but I don't see it continuing forever. At some point this will become a crisis because it's not sustainable.

So as a regular bloke, MGTOW is the only way.

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[–]FeministSlutWalker1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Just look around. Most marriages fail. Most divorces initiated by women. Men getting disproportionately fucked in courts and obligated to pay no matter what. Majority of homeless are men, some of whom served the country while feminists go around complaining about male privilege. Most scholarships are for women when though a higher majority of women in universities. Preferential hiring for women in tech. Women openly exploiting men through onlyfans and escorting etc. Look at the loneliness in men. More men than women haven't experienced intimacy.

I don't think a movememt will work. I don't think there's anything more powerful than men just saying "fuck it" and not accepting a bad deal. Its not centralized. There's no debating. There's no agenda. There's no violence. No money is spent fighting in court. You can't force someone to do more or less of nothing. It's the most powerful form of protest.

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[–]Tailback 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tailback 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]psycho_wastelander 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]catsinbananahats -19 points-18 points-17 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]catsinbananahats -24 points-23 points-22 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGargoyleKing 38 points39 points40 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RockyPendergast 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

i mean this person is replying to almost every comment in this sub about the banning. rent free isn't the half of it. i don't understand if it upset the op so much why even go there? its obviously affecting their mental health or it seems that way with all the arguing they are doing. its almost like they are obsessed with mtgow. i don't get it. do they think they are saving the world from some terrible hate crime and now deserve some heroic medal? makes no sense

ive never been there so maybe im missing something terrible but most of the comments on this post say otherwise.

i'm a lions fan (i know i know worst team ever haha) but if there was a sub that hates the lions and dislikes the lions being in the nfl or on tv what do i care? Why would i constantly go there and argue with everyone and try to tell them they are wrong. Why would i care if that place exists? It doesn't affect me in the least and i feel like if i just kept going there and arguing or even just reading the posts it would start to fuck with my head. So i stay away.

sorry im rambling it just makes no sense to me why people need to get involved in what other people are like and try to take that away from them. besides the obvious illegal stuff and that i don't get it.

[–]DarkDoomDoom 34 points35 points36 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KendrickMaynard 21 points22 points23 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExcitementThis5408 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NightOuts 16 points17 points18 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]catsinbananahats -9 points-8 points-7 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]NameGiver0 20 points21 points22 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]catsinbananahats -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NightOuts 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -7 points-6 points-5 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]unshak3n 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]unshak3n 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]unshak3n 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MydnightRose 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bishounensupremacy 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What happened to r/mgtow?

Comments

Fed up of having to accommodate women’s anger

Title	What happened to r/mgtow?
Author	OshQosh
Upvotes	361
Comments	864
Date	August 3, 2021 4:39 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ox7bdj/what_happened_to_rmgtow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-happened-to-rmgtow.823059 https://theredarchive.com/post/823059