Daily Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2022-06-11T20:00:09+00:00

This daily thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc... in...

[–]Ylduts12 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We know that young men, when they feel left behind, are more susceptible to being radicalized.

I agree men feeling left behind is a serious problem, but if men not getting sexual access to women they want is causing them to radicalize, then I don’t know what the solution is.

As a former 18-24 year old woman who chose not to have sex when I was in that age bracket, it sounds like you’re saying women like me were the problem, since I didn’t spread my legs to soothe angry mend. But I can’t imagine that I would have been happy to sacrifice my well being and self respect just to spread my legs so some asshole wouldn’t become a terrorist. It’s not like I was being bombarded with marriage proposals or even guys interested in dating, but the idea of selling my body for a false “peace” for others is incredibly repulsive to me.

So not to be too glib here, but what exactly is your proposed solution to the problem of some young men radicalizing like this?

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[–]throwinout0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I know I'm going to get women jumping down my throat for this, and I'm a mid-20s man myself, but girls these days are dressing way older than they are. For example, there is this girl at my gym who for the longest time I thought was in her 20s, turns out she's 16 (I never hit on her or even thought about it, I heard her talking about it once). She dresses in those tight ass leggings/booty shorts that show off her entire buttcheeks right up through the asscrack. I think I read somewhere that girls are going through puberty earlier these days. I've been going to this gym for a year now, so she has been dressing like this since she was at least 15. This gym is mostly older people, I'm even on the younger side. No idea why a girl that age is dressing like that around a gym that is mostly older men.

Maybe I'm just an old fogey, but I would not have expected a 16 year old girl to dress like that. I feel like when I was 16 girls didn't dress like that. I mean they still wore tight jeans and short skirts, but it wasn't to the extent where you could see their entire ass or their underbun in public. The clothing style is just changing so fast, I wouldn't be surprised if that is how some older men think - they're just not aware of how fast things changed and they think since she dresses that way she must be over 18.

Now obviously below 13-14 is different than 16, and I know you'll say you were dressed conservatively, I'm just pointing out some different cases. I don't really know how 12 year old girls dress these days since I have no reason to be around them, but I would not be surprised if they are dressing way more revealingly than women in their 20s did years ago. I am continually surprised how I see younger girls dressed when I go to like Trader Joe's or the park. Maybe my 12 year old brain just didn't notice it, but I feel like it wasn't always that way.

[–]Blame_the_Muse4 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]y2kjanelle4 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well I think there’s a few things to discuss here.

Yes, I think a lot of women are being sexualized at a younger age than before. And encouraged to sexualize themselves at a younger age. Even girl children’s clothing can sometimes be questionable. I saw a tiktok comparing a 3 year old boys’ shorts to a 6 year old girls shorts and they were like the same length.

The problem is, I don’t think any man in his 30s-50s especially should be looking at some 16 year old trying to guess if she’s of age so he can feel comfortable seeing her in a sexual way. Because when I was 16-17, if a guy in his early 20s was looking at me or thought I was attractive, I was like okay it’s less creepy because he’s closer to my age and it could be hard to tell. But 30? 50? 60? Those old of men (even if they prefer age gap relationships) shouldn’t be trying to sexualize a woman/girl who they can’t even tell if they’re of age.

And there’s a difference in what’s uncomfortable and what’s not. If a guy glances at a girl or woman, it’s really not a big deal. But if you keep looking over and getting distracted from sets, or lurk around their presence at the gym, or approach them during a set, or act like it’s some dating scene with a girl who’s 20-30 years your junior, that’s uncomfortable. And we all know it’s uncomfortable because I know for a fact if a gay man was staring at a guy working out, following him around, repeatedly leering, interrupting their sets, it’d be like dude?? Can you not? I’ve literally seen it before. If a 50 year old woman was doing this to a 16 year old guy they’d make fun of her or be weirded out. It’s not cool, and it’s not a compliment. And then the person getting unwanted attention notices and gets distracted from the reason they are there too: to work out.

So yes it can be hard to discern age, but it shouldn’t be this constant issue for men to try and figure out some girl’s age who’s working out when these men are like 30-50. Are you there to work out or stare and approach women?

Next, I think it’s weird to point out “sexual” clothing at the gym. To me, it’s like going to a swim meet and saying “why are all these guys wearing speedos? It’s so sexual and you can see their bulge…like? I can see half their ass out and they’re only 15…those boys obviously must want attention because they could wear tight swim shorts and not speedos”…. Like it’s a swim meet, it’s normal to wear that clothing and isn’t made to be sexualized. There are reasons for it and even if there weren’t, it’s still swimwear.

So again, It’s the gym. It’s actually encouraged to wear tight clothing.

When I was still dancing, we actually were not allowed st all to wear loose clothing. In fact, we got in trouble when we didn’t. Why? Because it was dance. It’s not a sexual act, it’s a form of movement that focuses on alignment, form, and technique so as not to hurt yourself. Consistently doing pirouettes or turns or jumps or even pliés with bad posture can lead to serious or painful injuries. So our teacher didn’t allow it so she could go and correct our form. If she couldn’t see it, she would get worried because we weren’t top professionals and could seriously get injured. Especially when going through an all-out run through.

So at the gym, where people are left to themselves, it’s actually good to wear tight clothing. That’s why they have mirrors, so you can see your form and correct to prevent injury. People also like to document profess and see what exercises help what area for them. People can burn fat differently and gain fat differently.

So I think that’s what a lot of women get kind of irritated about. They go to a place where it’s literally encouraged to wear tight, fitted clothing and they still get sexualized. They still aren’t able to comfortably work out, watch their form, prevent injuries, and document progress without men making it about their own sexuality and sexual feelings. Not to mention loose clothing can sometimes get caught on stuff.

Do I think some women may be unnecessarily upset or overly cautious/rude sometimes? Sure. Do I think girl’s clothing/fashion/makeup is more sexualized at a younger age? Yes. Is it hard to discern and tell age? Absolutely. I struggle with it too.

But these typically aren’t what’s upsetting women. It’s older men creating unsafe/uncomfortable environments specially around barely of age women and going out of their way to do so. It’s not being able to wear normal clothing for the occasion without being sexualized to the highest degree. It’s discerning age being more of a concern to men than their actual workout. It’s men sexualizing women/girls at 10-14 and school outfits and child-like behavior that is so obvious there is no excuse. There’s no “I couldn’t tell she was 10!” Excuse for making sexual remarks and committing sexual harassment.

And then I also want to point out, this isn’t new. Women were wearing leotards and tight leggings for those 80s workout sessions. Men were wearing tiny shorts and muscle tees.

So it’s not really an excuse that “this has never happened before! Women are extremely sexual now! Their clothing is crazy sexual” when you’re talking about a gym outfit especially.

And statistically and psychologically, it’s been proven that in countries that encourage or force women to cover up, there are more instances of sex crimes and men forcing their sexuality on women. Because the more women cover up, the more men think that any show of skin is an invitation. The more women are forced to have their bodies be “mysterious and secret”, the more people are inclined to need to go find out or emphasize features that are shown. In some places, literal hair is sexualized becshse it’s never shown.

Doesn’t mean we all walk around naked, but it does put shed some light on how “modesty” isn’t always for the sake of “modesty”. And how sexuality alot of the time has to do with culture, upbringing, religion, society, and self-control.

And I’m not trying to jump down your throat, but I’m offering a different perspective that men seem to be ignorant of. It’s very easy to see one thing and assume, especially if you’re taught to make those assumptions!

That’s why there can be nude beaches where people aren’t getting sexually assaulted left and right. They see each other and realize, it’s just another body. It’s just another person. Each body part has its own function completely separate from fulfilling your sexual needs. It’s human anatomy in person opposed to in a textbook. It’s just how we’re made.

[–]throwinout1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Good lord you write so much. It was very repetitive and you could be more succinct.

While I get that "people should be able to wear anything" or whatever, I'm just saying this is one reason older men act the way they do. I'm not saying it is a good thing or something I do.

I don't know what swim meets you go to, but speedos aren't usually a thing. We wore trunks and shorts. Even if you type "boys swim meet" in Google it is mostly shorts and trunks, not speedos. Way more conservative than what girls are wearing to the gym, and this is swimming which is meant to be less dressed.

I just don't buy that working out requires these outfits. I wear loose shorts and lift pretty well, waaaay more than any of these girls will ever lift. I see dudes lifting heavy wearing sweatpants and sweatshirts. You don't need to dress that way to lift heavy, which most girls don't do anyway. It doesn't even look comfy. I made another comment the other day about how I saw half the women are digging in their butts to remove the wedgies every few minutes. They aren't dressing for comfort, they are dressing that way to show off their bodies. Which is fine, but I'm not going to buy that they aren't trying to show off their bodies. Pretending that sort of clothing is necessary to lift is laughable, I've been lifting for over 12 years now and haven't had to dress in tight clothes. I'm just not going to buy a woman needs to wear booty shorts that show off her entire ass to squat a dinky 115 lbs while I'm over here squatting 245 lbs in basketball shorts. I just simply know it isn't true. I mean I'm glad they are dressed that way since it looks good, but that's the main reason they are dressing that way.

If you could provide those studies about countries forcing women to cover up and sex crimes, I would like to see them. I suspect there are confounding variables and the covering up isn't the root issue.

I mean go ahead and dress however you want, but these old dudes are just going to leer. What are we supposed to do, make a law against them looking? There's already laws against sexual assault.

[–]y2kjanelle3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It’s not a reason men act the way they do, it’s a way they use it to excuse their behavior.

All the swim meets at my high school and many others had boys and young men in speedos. Professionals wear speedos. It’s normal and encouraged. They also tend to shave hair off of every part of their body to help with speed. But I’m assuming to you, that’s just men trying to show off to women?…

I’m assuming you’re much older. Perhaps things have changed from your school and people take sports a lot more seriously nowadays too. There’s a lot more opportunities and events now.

I don’t see women wearing less than or equal to just a speedo at the gym. So that was an exaggeration made to make women look bad. I don’t know why it was brought up.

You don’t have to buy it, it’s true. Why do you think that even football players wear compression leggings? Why bikers wear compression shorts? Why there are companies specifically for active wear? As a dancer, I’m probably much more educated about it because I had to do it. And it helped. Wearing tight clothing for exercise is normal and a great way to ensure your form is correct. You get a closer look at your body and how it’s moving.

I’m sure it doesn’t look comfy. It’s not made to be comfortable just like working out isn’t made to be sunshine and rainbows. You work, painfully tear your muscles and build it back up again. It’s not supposed to be easy. And some clothing for working out isn’t made to be comfortable. It’s made to help you work out.

You seem to observe a lot of women consistently in the gym..I don’t see any reason for watching women dig their wedgies and following their leggings to see that it reaches their buttcrack or goes up their ass. Are you there to work out or look at women?

Again, never said they were dressing for comfort. I’m sure they’d love to wear sweats every time and a t shirt with their hair just laying flat and not tied up in a tight pony tail. But they’re there to work out, not feel comfortable. At least those who take it more seriously or emphasize progress much more than comfort. I’m sure alot of people don’t feel too strongly about it and love wearing comfy clothes to work out too. Cool.

And as someone who works out, you should know it’s not cool to make fun of someone and call their weight “dinky” just because you do more. It’s clear that working out isn’t serious for you. You wear clothing not really made for seriously working out or don’t focus on exercises that those types of clothing would help with. You observe a lot more than people who are very serious about working out would. Just because something does not benefit you or is in your realm doesn’t mean it’s not for others.

You simply know it isn’t true for YOU.

Sure, I’d love to find some research for you when I have some time. If you’re going to do research for yourselves, you can look up articles about India and then some middle eastern countries that have issues/occurrences with this.

Old dudes don’t have to leer. They don’t have a reason to leer. They are choosing to force their sexuality onto others. It’s a choice and that’s who they are choosing to be. If old men are going to act creepy, they should have no issues with being called out and be comfortable with the titles and negative comments they receive.

People have reasons for why they wear that clothing for the gym.

There actually are laws against leering. I don’t know why men get so offended when getting called out. It’s a form of sexual harassment and isn’t cool. In some places, it’s against the law. So I suggest that if you’re going to the gym or a place that isn’t specifically mean to be sexual, focus on the reason you’re supposed to be there.

Perfectly fine to go to the strip club and stare and comment there! (So long as you follow their rules). No need to bring to the gym.

[–]throwinout1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

First of all, you could type less and read more, therefore you would see I'm not "much older" and am mid-20s.

Honestly, type in "boys swim meet" in Google images and you will see the vast majority are not wearing speedos. Your thing is out of the ordinary. This is how most boys dress at swim meets. This is how the best swimmers in the world swim.

I don’t see women wearing less than or equal to just a speedo at the gym. So that was an exaggeration made to make women look bad. I don’t know why it was brought up.

OMFG, I said the shorts men wear for swimming as in the pictures above are more conservative than what women wear to the gym, not speedos. God this conversation is so painful when dealing with this level of reading comprehension.

They wear those UNDER loose shorts. I know because I wear those and they are underneath my loose shorts.

That is the reason women give for what they wear, that it is comfy. Which obviously isn't true. Glad you agree with that, cuz I knew that reasoning was bullshit anyway. So what is your point here for the booty shorts? How do they help people lift more? And if it does help, how come they only end up squatting a dinky 115 lbs anyway? How come professional male lifters, you know the people breaking records, aren't wearing booty shorts that go up their asscrack?

I don't go out of my way to observe women, but what am I supposed to do, look at the floor at all times. That just isn't reasonable. There are rest sets in between working sets, you know what those are? There's people looking around. What are you supposed to do, look straight at the ground for 2 minutes? When you walk around you need to look up so you don't bump into people. You need to look at other people to see what equipment is being used. If I want to use the squat rack, I need to look at who is there to see if it might free up soon. Just during these small moments I see women coming into my eyeline doing these things, so they would be even more frequent if I actually did try to "observe" people as you claim. Do you not see people as you walk around, or do you look down at your feet as you walk? I'm not even going out of my way to look. Often I'm just sitting on my bench on my rest set looking forward, a woman passes by with her hand up her butt in my eyeline. Now how is that my fault? I need to constantly be moving my head to make sure I don't see one of these women?

Let me put it this way, if I went to a gym that only had dudes in it, I could look up normally and not have to worry about anything. And no one would be concerned about "leering" because theirs nothing to leer at. But because women choose to dress this way, I'm supposed to look down at the ground between rest sets and walking around? Why don't they just dress normally? Men have already proven that you can lift waaay above 115 lbs in normal clothes.

Nah, if I'm lifting for 12 years and lift at the intermediate-advanced according to strengthlevel, then it pretty serious, so that was a stupid thing to say. You're only saying this shit, alongside other shit, to try and shame me and make childish insults. You seem too old to be acting that way. They are not serious about working out if they are more concerned about looking good than actually lifting heavy.

Then the women should hold them accountable to the law instead of just complaining about it, maybe then it would stop. But as I said, I've been lifting for 12 years+ and I've only ever heard women complain and not do anything about it. So if it is against the law, go hold them accountable and maybe one day soon we can stop hearing all of this incessant complaining. This doesn't effect me because I don't "leer" and have never had an issue with 12 years+ of lifting. So women can keep complaining, but at the end of the day it seems like they would rather wear booty shorts than actually solve the issue, so...

[–]y2kjanelle1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I can’t type less. You’re already having a bit of trouble understanding me with the extra explanation. Mid-20s…okay.

I won’t link them because I know them and they were in high school at the time but I literally have pictures of my male friends in their speedos from their meets after winning awards😂dude it’s just swimwear.

The best swimmers in the world have worn speedos. If you want to deny that because there are other forms of swimwear, then go ahead. I don’t care.

And I can’t tell if you’re being serious or just didn’t read? Again, this is why I have to write extra for my comments to you. I just explained in detail why women wear tight clothing and shorts.

I explained to you why people who work out use that clothing. For some reason, you just want to force the belief that women are wearing clothing solely to attract unwanted attention from men. That it is not possible to wear workout clothes to work out.

I don’t like wearing sweats to the gym. My sweat sticks to the fabric and it’s fucking gross to me lmao. There’s a reason for wearing shorts. A lot of people like to track weight loss, and look at form. They look at posture. Their temperature rises during a workout and don’t want to wear sticky, long pants.

A lot of people who lift also do other workouts that may include legs. So it’s important for their whole outfit to be tailored to their whole workout. If you’re only a lifter and put less emphasis on other workouts, maybe that’s why you think these women are just putting on shorts to lift as opposed to doing other things where shorts would benefit them. Or tight pants.

But please don’t ask me again why women wear this clothing unless you have read what I just put 3 times in my comments.

Do some women go to the gym in tight clothing because they think they look good? Yes I’m sure. People loveee to post their progress and how they’re looking. It’s great and some find it empowering and motivating to keep going. In fact, I’ve seen a huge increase in my male friends making progress accounts. Super cool and I’m happy they enjoy it.

I’m just telling you that it is irrational and delusional to think that workout clothing is some scream for sexual attention from 50 year old men that would rather stare at women than get in shape and be healthier lmao. It’s not a complex issue..it’s workout clothes.

Also weird that I wrote an in-depth comment about sexual harassment/leering and you decided to make men the victim claiming that because of women they have to “look at the ground and scatter their eyesight around” to not be accused of sexual harassment.

No one’s complaining about a damn glance. Most women are too sweaty and into their workout to notice someone glancing at them.

Look wherever you want. No one gives a damn.

But when you’re (general you) staring and following women around and interrupting their sets to ask them for their number and making comments, don’t be surprised when they don’t like it.

Duh. Most people don’t like people staring at them. It’s uncomfortable. That is quite literally common sense. Staring is rude. We learn that as children.

It’s not your fault if you accidentally catch a woman digging in her ass. I’m sorry you had to watch that lmao. Awkward af. But to me, it seems you’ve been staring at women a lot to know exactly what they’ve been wearing, may have been called out or have seen many instances of men being called out, have repeatedly noticed the shape of womens sportswear and how much of their butt is showing and when, etc. so it does seem like there’s been a lot of emphasis from you on women working out and what they wear.

You can call whatever I say stupid. It’s a pretty valid point that if you’re not buying as professional or workout-focused clothing and have no idea why people would wear tight clothes to the gym or for any kind of workout, you’re probably not as serious about it. Or at least the clothing aspect.

Women do hold men accountable😂 you just said you even feel uncomfortable looking at women in the gym because they might say something about you. So women ARE telling men this isn’t okay. That’s why there’s so much talk about it. Women are voicing their experiencing, recording it and posting it, and men are angry about it and trying to argue that women are intentionally “asking for it” with their clothing.

I’m telling you other ways why they would wear these types of clothes. It’s not really that deep.

If you don’t want to get called out, don’t do it. If you don’t do it and get accused, call them out, move away and continue doing what you were there to do.

[–]throwinout1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You definitely could. I understand perfectly fine, I just don't think you are right. Good try with the condescending insult, typical. You're really not coming off as intelligent as you think you are. Seriously, how big is your ego that you think someone telling you you are wrong just doesn't understand you? Because there couldn't be any other explanation, right?

Go. Type. In. What. I. Said. And. You. Will. See. You. Are. Incorrect. Most people dress as I have said. There are of course a minority dressing in speedos, but that's what they are - a minority. All of this is a stupid point anyway, swimming and lifting are two different sports. Of course there are different standards for what they wear. Just like there are different uniforms for volleyball and soccer. What an asinine point to try and make.

But your explanations aren't true. I read what you are typing, and refuted it. You aren't reading mine and are dogmatically sticking to your point even when someone points out the inconsistencies. If these workout clothes are so effective why aren't men wearing them and why aren't men wearing them in powerlifting competitions if they are so necessary? Because they aren't! It isn't about working out, it is about looking good. Which is fine. But trying to pretend it is something else is just stupid. There is no way these shorts that go up into their butts is helping with their lifts. If it did, I would buy those shorts tomorrow to improve my own lifts. Guys who are obsessed with lifting to the point of injecting chemicals that harm their body would be wearing those shorts to improve their lifts. You are simply incorrect, and no amount of condescension will make your point correct.

Squats do work legs dude. OMFG. It is ridiculous how dumb the things you type are but you still try to be so condescending.

I did no such thing. You are just making things up. I pointed out how stupid it was to accuse me of "watching" people when I am behaving in a perfectly normal way. You're just making accusation about me that don't even make sense. I've never been accused of staring at anyone or been "called out". You said I shouldn't know how these women dress if I am there to work out, when that clearly isn't true. I am there to work and and incidentally see how these women are dressed. All your long diatribes are are just a bunch of incorrect assumptions. I have been lifting 4-5 days a week for 1-3 hours for 12 years. That is a lot of time. I don't have to "watch women" to see this when just going about my life. Your accusation that I am staring at women is simply untrue.

you just said you even feel uncomfortable looking at women in the gym because they might say something about you

No I didn't. You have severe reading comprehension issues. I wasn't talking about women at the gym saying that, you are the one making those dumb accusations. I am saying you are incorrect and the description you are giving of how I behave at the gym is completely incorrect.

You have no idea what you are talking about, and I am tired of your childish insults. I go to the gym with my female friends and see how they dress. Some dress in normal clothes for working out and some dress with booty shorts meant to show off their body. There is clear difference in how they treat their workouts and how much they lift. The ones who are wearing booty shorts are spending more time taking pics of themselves than actually working out, or spending more time just gabbing than working out. I know what I see, you think you know more than you do.

[–]y2kjanelle3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

To me, it just sounds like you are getting emotional.

I don’t think I’m better than you and I don’t have an ego. You want to agree to disagree, I’m totally fine with that.

I said some women do wear that clothing to show off. Duh. So do men. It’s common and I’m glad they are confident in their bodies.
I repeatedly gave reasons other than being vain or dressing for attention for wearing that type of clothing to which you ignored. You haven’t even addressed anything I said.
Your statements indicated to me you spent a decent amount of time paying attention to women’s clothing.
You also mentioned you don’t put effort into buying clothing specifically made for working out. You wear basketball shorts and t-shirts. Perfectly fine but was just pointing out you may have a hard time understanding why some people wear clothing that is different than yours.
Wearing tight clothing is not equivalent to injecting steroids and chemicals.
Tight workout clothing is not some super power. It doesn’t magically make all of your workouts 10x better. It just allows people to see their form and tweak it. It can allow for more flexibility. It can be the preferred type of clothing dependent on your workout which can include more than lifting. You never mentioned you ever did dance, yoga, etc. those types of workouts are better with tight clothing. All I did was offer alternatives to your inflexible idea that women just like to wear booty shorts and tight clothes to show off to men they don’t even want attention from.
You went on a (to me) ridiculous rant about not being able to look up when women are around and I just contradicted that by highlighting how women are irritated with sexual harassment, not glances from a man between sets.
I never accused you of anything. I was literally just saying the amount of detail you notice of womens clothing seems to be more significant than the norm (in my opinion). You said it yourself, you never had this issue. But a ton of men do and whine and complain about it. I said if men want that to occur less, then they shouldn’t be making women uncomfortable.
In my experience, the ones who are more into their clothing, tend to be more experienced and more concerned with their progress and technique. The ones who come in a t-shirt and basketball shorts tend to be less experienced or care less about form. Or it’s very possible they have their own method of doing so and don’t like/don’t want to wear that type of clothing as a personal preference. I’ve seen girls tie shirts up before or during a set to check form and then put it down. Some girls I’ve seen don’t want to do that and use tight clothing as an easier way to see their body during a workout.
You can insult me all you want and call me dumb, stupid, uneducated, etc. you can say I don’t know what I’m talking about. You can try and make yourself seem better than me. I don’t care about any of that, truly.
Speedos were and are common to wear for swim. A lot of men faced stigma and “attention-seeking” comments. There’s even an article talking about “bringing skimpy speedos” back even though they were never intended to be sexualized. Clothing isn’t just stigmatized against women.
This type of sports wear isn’t limited to women. Men wear short shorts. They wear compression shorts and tights. I’ve noticed this mainly in football. A lot of football players also do ballet exercises and dance too.
Overall, I wouldn’t say that most people who wear tight workout clothes are doing it solely or mainly for attention in the gym.
“Booty shorts” and tight clothing is normal for the gym or exercise. I don’t think it’s correct and is offensive to insinuate that it’s “abnormal” or “attention seeking”.
Once again, I am saying that yes, there are people who do it because they like showing off their body. I think alot of people who work out a lot love to show off their bodies and rightfully so. But I don’t think that’s in their mind every time they put on an outfit and go to the gym.

I’m going to bed because I have things to do tomorrow and this will be my last reply. Have a good night.

[–]Snoo_165361 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]throwinout1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Snoo_165361 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They wear those UNDER loose shorts. I know because I wear those and they are underneath my loose shorts.

Lol no they don’t. Not for a swim meet, which is the term for a competition. You have obviously never been to a meet, competed, or watched the Olympics or any other swimming sporting event. Men wear tight shorts to reduce drag in the water, the same way women wear tight suits to reduce drag in the water. Baggy pants increase drag and increase swim times in a sport where fractions of a second matter.

Likewise, top level male runners and gymnasts also don’t wear the sloppy baggy clothes you prefer because they chafe and get in the way. They wear tight clothes: again, watch some Olympic highlights. Loads of women at the gym do cardio: wearing big baggy sweatpants is less comfortable for running.

And if it does help, how come they only end up squatting a dinky 115 lbs anyway?

Why do you insult women for being biologically physically weaker than men? Women have much lower testosterone levels than men, so they don’t build as much muscle or as quickly as men.

Men have already proven that you can lift waaay above 115 lbs in normal clothes.

Lifting 115 requires way less effort and training for a man.

Often I'm just sitting on my bench on my rest set looking forward, a woman passes by with her hand up her butt in my eyeline. Now how is that my fault?

The fact that you have eyes is not your fault. The fact that you obsess over women’s clothing that does not affect you personally and is not directed at you is your fault. You are being nit picky and prudish. You sound like an clucking old church lady getting mad about the kids these days.

They are not serious about working out if they are more concerned about looking good than actually lifting heavy.

Most women are not serious about lifting to compare themselves to men, no. They’ll always loose anyways, so there’s no point in trying to please the men who insult them for not lifting like men anyways.

So women can keep complaining

You are the one complaining non-stop here, lol.

but at the end of the day it seems like they would rather wear booty shorts than actually solve the issue, so...

There is literally no article of clothing a woman can wear to prevent men from leering and sexually harassing her, because clothing does not control men’s urges or their behavior. Women in the Middle East (e.g. Egypt) wearing extremely modest clothing are among the most sexually harassed in the world. You’re fooling yourself if you think women wearing shapeless sack clothing will make even a tiny bit of difference to the men being disrespectful.

[–]throwinout1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Lol no they don’t. Not for a swim meet, which is the term for a competition. You have obviously never been to a meet, competed, or watched the Olympics or any other swimming sporting event. Men wear tight shorts to reduce drag in the water, the same way women wear tight suits to reduce drag in the water. Baggy pants increase drag and increase swim times in a sport where fractions of a second matter.

OMFG, I was talking about the compression shorts and leggings about the bikers and football players she was talking about, not swimmers. JFC. That's why it was a separate paragraph to align with her order. It is remarkable how condescending women get when they are the ones being dumb.

Why do you insult women for being biologically physically weaker than men? Women have much lower testosterone levels than men, so they don’t build as much muscle or as quickly as men.

Women should be able to squat more than 115 lbs, if they actually care about lifting. Look up strengthlevel. The difference between men and women is mostly upper body strength, women have like 70% of the lower body strength men do. Women do plenty of insults based on biological realities themselves, so I'm not going to feel sorry about it.

Lifting 115 requires way less effort and training for a man.

Ok, so make it a weight that translates to women. 65 lbs? Doesn't matter, the point still stands.

The fact that you obsess over women’s clothing that does not affect you personally and is not directed at you is your fault. You are being nit picky and prudish. You sound like an clucking old church lady getting mad about the kids these days.

Read the part where I said I'm glad where they are dressing this way. I never said women shouldn't dress this way. I'm simply pointing out it is more about looking good than actually lifting. A few posts on Reddit is not "obsessing" over it. This is just how women exaggerate to try and shame people.

You are the one complaining non-stop here, lol.

No, I'm not. I'm not even complaining. I literally said I'm glad women dress that way. No need to get butthurt. I'll even state it directly so you can take the stick out of your ass about it: I am glad women dress revealingly when lifting. I'd be okay with them lifting naked.

There is literally no article of clothing a woman can wear to prevent men from leering and sexually harassing her, because clothing does not control men’s urges or their behavior.

I'm sure it would lower it. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to believe that a woman wearing booty shorts that show her underbun and the entire outline of her ass gets the same looks a woman wearing long shorts like guys wear. Even if they do, there isn't the same thing to look at between the two. Women know how they dress impacts how they are perceived, that's why they don't dress frumpy when going out to the club.

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

OMFG, I was talking about the compression shorts and leggings about the bikers and football players she was talking about, not swimmers.

Dude, don’t lie. These are your words quoted directly:

Honestly, type in "boys swim meet" in Google images and you will see the vast majority are not wearing speedos. Your thing is out of the ordinary. This is how most boys dress at swim meets. This is how the best swimmers in the world swim.

You literally linked to pictures of guys at swim meets. You know you were talking about swimming.

And your denial here means you simply didn’t understand the other commenter’s argument. She was saying that by your argument, men in any sport wearing tight clothing must be acting inappropriately sexual too, since they could just wear sweatpants.

And dude, football players wear really tight pants too. Unless you mean soccer.

It is remarkable how condescending women get when they are the ones being dumb.

I find this comment incredibly ironic.

Ok, so make it a weight that translates to women. 65 lbs? Doesn't matter, the point still stands.

No, the point doesn’t still stand. It just proves a different point entirely: you were so mad that these women wore clothing you disapproved of that you don’t actually know what they were squatting and are just making up numbers just to insult them out of the stupid assumption that a woman wearing anything other than a burlap sack must be bad at everything.

It’s not women’s fault you have no respect for women who you find sexually attractive, lol.

Read the part where I said I'm glad where they are dressing this way.

Saying you sound like a critical old church lady bitching about women’s gym clothes is not saying you are glad, it’s saying you are self-righteously complaining about immodesty.

No, I'm not. I'm not even complaining.

You had several hysterical paragraphs up there complaining about how women’s shorts are so bad, and hoe you can’t even have your eyes open without being accused of leering at them. Yeah, you were complaining, and complaining hard.

I never said women shouldn't dress this way.

You shamed them, insulted them for not having natural male strength, and whined that your gym experience would be better if it were an all male gym because women ruin it for you.

I'm sure it would lower it.

Do you sexually harass women more when they wear immodest clothing than when they wear baggy sweatpants? If not, then you have no personal experience or evidence whatsoever to base this on other than your penis-feelings.

Most women know from actual experience that creeps will target them no matter what they wear. Women get harassed all the time in huge puffy winter coats. And since you didn’t read I’ll repeat again: women wearing extremely covering outfits in the Middle East are among the most sexually harassed in the world.

In addition, if all women followed your wishes and wore shapeless, uncomfortable, ugly clothing to the gym… you do know men would still harass them just as much right? They’d still find some reason to pester the women they want to fuck, or do you think women’s clothing is so powerful if can somehow control men’s testosterone levels and make shitty men behave themselves?

Women know how they dress impacts how they are perceived,

It doesn’t prevent harassment though, so it’s not worth obeying prudish, controlling men’s wishes if they don’t feel like it.

[–]throwinout1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Dude, don’t lie. These are your words quoted directly:

Wrong, look at the order of the paragraphs, I was talking about two things. If I was talking about swimming for loose clothing over, I would have made it part of that paragraph instead of a one sentence paragraph by itself. And context tells you of course it was referring to biking and football, because that's where you wear compression leggings under normal clothes. You just made a mistake and now want to double down.

And your denial here means you simply didn’t understand the other commenter’s argument. She was saying that by your argument, men in any sport wearing tight clothing must be acting inappropriately sexual too, since they could just wear sweatpants.

That's dumb, there are obviously different standards for different sports. Of course you'd wear less swimming than lifting, you're suggesting people swim in sweatpants? Look at how professionals dress lifting, they don't dress like swimmers. This is such a dumb argument.

It just proves a different point entirely: you were so mad that these women wore clothing you disapproved of that you don’t actually know what they were squatting and are just making up numbers just to insult them out of the stupid assumption that a woman wearing anything other than a burlap sack must be bad at everything.

I know exactly what they were squatting since I saw the plates, you have no idea what you are talking about. There are others that squat only the bar and others who squat 65. Not every woman squats the exact same amount. Your point was that it was easier for men to squat 115, so I said ok, make it a lower weight so the level of ease would translate. But it doesn't matter. That also ignores male strength advantage is mostly towards upper body strength.

You had several hysterical paragraphs up there complaining about how women’s shorts are so bad, and hoe you can’t even have your eyes open without being accused of leering at them. Yeah, you were complaining, and complaining hard.

False, I never said it was bad, and several times said it was fine. You're the one being so histrionic you can't even read the words I wrote. If you're going by paragraphs, then she is the most hysterical person on PPD so far. The only reason I wrote that many paragraphs is because I was responding to her points and she wrote a novel. My initial comment was not that long. So by your logic, she got hysterical first and quickly. I said that is what it sounded like she expected me to do, not what I did. So wrong.

You shamed them, insulted them for not having natural male strength, and whined that your gym experience would be better if it were an all male gym because women ruin it for you.

Wrong. I said I liked it that they dressed that way. Women shame and insult based on biology plenty, so boohoo.

I didn't say it would end it, I said it would lower it, which is true - keep up.

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And context tells you of course it was referring to biking and football, because that's where you wear compression leggings under normal clothes

No, this is wrong. Men do not wear baggy clothes when playing American football or when biking.

And here is the complete context:

OMFG, I said the shorts men wear for swimming as in the pictures above are more conservative than what women wear to the gym, not speedos. God this conversation is so painful when dealing with this level of reading comprehension.

They wear those UNDER loose shorts. I know because I wear those and they are underneath my loose shorts.

You may have meant biking and football (neither of whom actually wear baggy pants over their outfits, which you also claim), but that’s not what you said. A paragraph break does not automatically the change of subject matter you didn’t mention.

And in addition which I didn’t mention earlier, you said that women’s gymwear is less modest than a bunch of topless boys in skintight short shorts… I can’t say I’ve ever been to a gym where the women wear nothing but bikini bottoms or thongs.

I know exactly what they were squatting since I saw the plates, you have no idea what you are talking about.

If you know exactly what they were squatting, then why did you change the number to suit your narrative? You dropped the number from 115 to 65. You obviously made one of those numbers up, and I suspect the latter is the made up one, because you pulled it out when I called you out on mocking women for being weaker than men.

Your point was that it was easier for men to squat 115,

No, my point was that it is easier for men to squat 115 and you’re insulting women for not doing it.

so I said ok, make it a lower weight

So yeah, like I said; you made up the number to mock women.

False, I never said it was bad, and several times said it was fine

If it’s “fine”, then why are you going on at length claiming any woman who wears tight pants isn’t actually trying? You’re shaming women for not wearing the modest clothing you want.

My initial comment was not that long. So by your logic, she got hysterical first and quickly.

Not really— her tone was matter of fact, not hysterical. The number of words does not make something hysterical, it’s the tone. You can’t ask a dozen condescending and defensive questions like this:

So what is your point here for the booty shorts? How do they help people lift more? And if it does help, how come they only end up squatting a dinky 115 lbs anyway? How come professional male lifters, you know the people breaking records, aren't wearing booty shorts that go up their asscrack?… What are you supposed to do, look straight at the ground for 2 minutes?… Do you not see people as you walk around, or do you look down at your feet as you walk? I'm not even going out of my way to look. Often I'm just sitting on my bench on my rest set looking forward, a woman passes by with her hand up her butt in my eyeline. Now how is that my fault? I need to constantly be moving my head to make sure I don't see one of these women?

…without sounding hysterical. Nobody expects you to not have eyes or to wear horse blinders in public. They expect you to not judge random women for not wearing clothing you disapprove of.

And in addition… “but MAAA, she did it FIRST!!!” is a pretty useless defense of your own comment.

I didn't say it would end it, I said it would lower it, which is true - keep up.

Again, you’re just wrong, and completely clueless.

Answer the question: why are women in the most modest clothes in countries with very strict dress codes sexually harassed the most of basically anywhere? “Eve teasing” in India, and rampant public sexual harassment of women in the Middle East, yet in both places women follow very modest dress codes and don’t wear your dreaded booty shorts. Why is sexual harassment so much worse in these places if wearing modest clothing “would lower” sexual harassment?

In real life, the clothing women wear is just an excuse terrible men use to attack women— if you dress every woman more modestly, those same shitty men will find another excuse (she was showing her ankles, or not covering her hair, or whatever). The rules will always shift to blame women in some way, because shitty predatory guys don’t actually care about the clothes, they only care about the fact that she is female. A woman trying to dress more modestly will, at best, make a man focus on some other things about her appearance and decide that new thing means she was “asking for it.”

[–]throwinout1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Football and biking clothes are not as tight as the shorts I am talking about. These are the kinds of shorts I am talking about. Fine, I should have said "looser", but I didn't expect a grammar nazi to come after me on one letter being so pedantic. It is obvious what I meant. And when men wear compression leggings to the gym, they usually wear looseR shorts over them. They do not just wear leggings alone like women do. That's the point.

That's how the paragraph break was used. She went from one topic to another, and so did I. You are wrong, so want to double down. It is incorrect what you stated. If you look at the shorts in the swim meet pic I posted, you can clearly see they are not as revealing as the shorts from Amazon posted above. That is a fact.

If you know exactly what they were squatting, then why did you change the number to suit your narrative? You dropped the number from 115 to 65. You obviously made one of those numbers up, and I suspect the latter is the made up one, because you pulled it out when I called you out on mocking women for being weaker than men.

Oh my god this is so stupid, I stated not every woman lifts the exact woman lifts the same amount. Some lift 115, some 65, and some the bar. It is such a stupid point, all I did was give you some leeway for the discussion so it could move along. None of those numbers are made up, I saw women in booty shorts squatting each of those. The point was to show it didn't matter what the number was since it was functionally the same when it comes to the discussion. You're the one worried about the specific numbers.

So yeah, like I said; you made up the number to mock women.

No, I made it about a different amount a woman squatted to move the conversation along because you were being ridiculous and focusing on something that doesn't even matter. It still doesn't matter since the weight isn't the issue. Those are low weights, even at 115, for a woman who squats seriously. It has nothing to do in comparison to men and has to do with in comparison to women who actually lift seriously. Good lord, the stupid I have been seeing from this thread is stupefying.

If it’s “fine”, then why are you going on at length claiming any woman who wears tight pants isn’t actually trying? You’re shaming women for not wearing the modest clothing you want.

Because they aren't. I've seen these women months after months taking up the squat rack and the weights don't go up. They also hog the squat rack more worried about chatting or taking pics than actually squatting, so yeah - I'll mock them.

Not really— her tone was matter of fact, not hysterical. The number of words does not make something hysterical, it’s the tone. You can’t ask a dozen condescending and defensive questions like this:

Says you. Of course you're going to take her side to gang up on me because you're just trying to make the same point she is. That doesn't make it true. Those weren't defensive or condescending. It was to show how ridiculous she was being, learn what rhetorical means.

They expect you to not judge random women for not wearing clothing you disapprove of.

How many times do I have to tell you I don't disapprove when I literally said I was glad they wore them or that it was fine that they wore them. Why can't you get that through your skull?

And in addition… “but MAAA, she did it FIRST!!!” is a pretty useless defense of your own comment.

Just shows you are being hypocritical. As is the histrionic exaggeration when I matter of factly pointed out the hypocrisy.

Again, you’re just wrong, and completely clueless.

No, I am not. You are wrong here. There are boys that age at the gym, I started working out at 14, no boy I have ever seen wears booty shorts like the ones I linked exposing their entire ass for some pervy gay guy or old woman to see. Amazing that they know better than to dress that way, but girls can't be expected to know the same.

why are women in the most modest clothes in countries with very strict dress codes sexually harassed the most of basically anywhere? “Eve teasing” in India, and rampant public sexual harassment of women in the Middle East, yet in both places women follow very modest dress codes and don’t wear your dreaded booty shorts. Why is sexual harassment so much worse in these places if wearing modest clothing “would lower” sexual harassment?

Because of the culture, if they wore booty shorts it would obviously be even worse. It is relative. You're really going to tell me a woman in Egypt wouldn't get more harassment in booty shorts than she would in regular clothes? You really can't tell how stupid that is?

That is just a dumb slippery slope argument. If you honestly can't tell the difference between the shorts above and normal shorts then you are either trolling, lying, or playing dumb - possibly all three. It is obvious from the product page that those shorts are meant to accentuate the butt like the Walmart ones I posted: https://www.walmart.com/ip/ODOMY-Women-Yoga-Shorts-Tight-fitting-Hip-Gym-Workout-Casual-Sports-Hot-Short-Pants/402931626

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

These are the kinds of shorts I am talking about

Those are not leggings, so why are you insulting women for wearing leggings if your problem is with women wearing underwear to work out?

They do not just wear leggings alone like women do. That's the point.

Yes, I realize your point is that whatever men wear is serious and important, and if women wear clothes that you find sexually appealing, that means they don’t really care about fitness.

I just disagree.

Your argument this whole time is that clothes do not affect performance. So why is it such a problem for you that women wear “leggings alone” (which again no they do not— they are not topless in any gyms I’m aware of in the US).

How many times do I have to tell you I don't disapprove when I literally said I was glad they wore them or that it was fine that they wore them. Why can't you get that through your skull?

Because you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. You say you’re glad they wear them, while also insulting them and claiming women who are sexually appealing to you in the gym are not really trying. You can’t say “I think women wearing leggings is great (but only because I like to look at them), and also women who wear leggings are lazy weaklings who can’t even squat something I think is easy” and then expect people to believe you think leggings are “fine”. According to your argument, if a woman wears leggings, she’s a joke, and the only way for a woman to not be a joke to you is to dress in baggy men’s clothes.

And considering your whole argument this whole time has been that the pants you wear don’t make a difference in your ability to lift, why is it that you think women wearing leggings is a detriment.

Because of the culture, if they wore booty shorts it would obviously be even worse. It is relative

So you even agree then: the real problem is a culture where men choose to be horrible to women, and that women’s clothing cannot actually control male behavior or protect women from a sexist culture. Womens clothing has no actual power to control men’s behavior. Your argument is nothing but male sexual hypoagency— you avoid holding shitty men accountable for bad behavior by blaming their misbehavior in articles of clothing.

you honestly can't tell the difference between the shorts above and normal shorts

I can tell the difference and you know that, because there would be no discussion at all if I thought baggy men’s shorts and yoga pants were the same thing. This is an incredibly stupid strawman.

And yeah, almost no women wear men’s basketball shorts. They’re baggy and weird and ugly and the crotch hangs too low and chafes a woman’s inner thighs because women are not men. They look like shit on men too— I don’t know why your goal is to shame everyone at the gym who doesn’t dress as sloppy as possible.

But I do get your message loud and clear: men’s clothing is “normal”, women’s clothing is silly.

[–]YouAskedIt1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]throwinout1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]YouAskedIt1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

For example, there is this girl at my gym who for the longest time I thought was in her 20s, turns out she's 16 (I never hit on her or even thought about it, I heard her talking about it once). She dresses in those tight ass leggings/booty shorts that show off her entire buttcheeks right up through the asscrack. I think I read somewhere that girls are going through puberty earlier these days. I've been going to this gym for a year now, so she has been dressing like this since she was at least 15. This gym is mostly older people, I'm even on the younger side. No idea why a girl that age is dressing like that around a gym that is mostly older men.

Maybe I'm just an old fogey, but I would not have expected a 16 year old girl to dress like that. I feel like when I was 16 girls didn't dress like that. I mean they still wore tight jeans and short skirts, but it wasn't to the extent where you could see their entire ass or their underbun in public.

You can describe her teeny tiny shorts that had the bottom of her ass cheeks hanging out and hug her all the way up her ass crack and how she's been dressing like that for over a year without ever having checked out this random minor at the gym? You noticed a whole lot of detail for not checking her out, especially when you thought she was in her 20's... You must be psychic, especially after saying how much you love when women dress like that because it shows off their bodies for you to look at.

[–]throwinout1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I go to the gym 4-5 days a week for 1-3 hours the same time every day. Lots of people go on the same schedule, she happens to be one. That is a lot of time. I don't go out of my way to look at her. Sometimes she is in my line of view. Sometimes I am working out and she goes in front of me, or asks me to use the equipment after I am done (and she sounded older too). I am not going out of my way to look at her. Or any specific part of her body. But if I look forward I see her entire body and I see that her ass is barely covered. If it is a guy, I'll notice his entire body including the shorts he has on. I'm not going out of my way to look at anybody's lower body. I've noticed plenty of how people dress (and they've seen how I dress), including guys, because gyms put you in close proximity and people spend a lot of time there. None of that means I was checking anybody out. If you've ever been to a gym before, you'd know you can see how people dress without checking them out - but it doesn't sound like you do, so you don't. When you go outside, the sort of pants people wear is completely unknown to you? Now imagine you are in a situation where people, including yourself, are bending over and such. Or that you are at different heights because sometimes you are sitting and they are standing so looking forward means you are looking at their lower body.

Seriously this is so dumb, it is like explaining normal human behavior to an alien here.

[–]YouAskedIt1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you'd know you can see how people dress without checking them out

You literally described her ass crack... That is not noticing how people are dressed. You keep throwing in all of these excuses. Why? If you weren't checking her out, didn't hit on her, and never even thought of it then you wouldn’t be this concerned. Doesn't matter if she sounds older and looks like she's in her 20's. You were checking out a minor if you can describe her ass in that much detail. It's that simple. I spend hours training a week too and you know what I can't do? Describe someone's ass crack, because I wasn't perving on them.

That is a lot of time. I don't go out of my way to look at her. Sometimes she is in my line of view. Sometimes I am working out and she goes in front of me, or asks me to use the equipment after I am done (and she sounded older too). I am not going out of my way to look at her.

We get it, you were forced to stare at her ass crack because she was in the same room, walked by, or spoke to you. It's totally normal to stare at everyone's ass crack and describe the fit of their shorts in detail while simultaneously not looking at them. You were staring at her ass, whether she was in your line of sight or you had to find her, but you were staring at her ass. Not cool, she's a minor.

[–]throwinout1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Dude, I'm saying the shorts she wears go up her asscrack. I'm not describing anyone's asscrack, that is just something you are weirdly hyperfocusing on. I'm saying the type of shorts that are worn are the kind that give wedgies. I'm not going out looking for her asscrack. But if I look forward, when sitting, and she's in front of me, I will of course see her lower body and see how her shorts look. If it is a guy, I will see a guy's shorts.

I'm not staring at her asscrack. You are just acting histrionic here. She walks by, I see her shorts, which specifically accentuate her butt, and keep looking forward as she passes. Or she walks in front. I don't turn my head to look at her. But I've already seen what she was wearing in the few seconds she walked by. I'm not specifically looking at her asscrack or even her ass or even her specifically, but I saw because it is part of the bigger picture of what is in my eyesight. How are you not getting this? I'm not staring at anyone. You don't have to stare at anyone to see what they are wearing.

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on a few occasions it got me an angry "you're a bigot" response.

Putting aside the fact that people often purposely conflate predatory or grooming situations with legal age gaps they're simply not comfortable with in general, it's NOT bigotry if you're strictly narrating personal experience or commenting specifically about certain situations after knowing all the relevant details. Or if you're faced with a potentially life or death decision on the spot.

It DOES become bigotry when you start to generalize and profile entire groups in discussion based solely on immutable physical characteristics and personal disgust though, even in the name of "societal safety." That's an important distinction.

For example it's understandable for a white woman to point out a traumatic personal experience being victimized by a black man if it's purely descriptive, but the minute she attempts to use her anecdote to make broad conclusions and opine about black men (or advise other women to avoid black men) then that becomes bigotry.

[–]EulenWatcher3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]YukbghhjjProud owner of a Napoleon complex 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SantarpiosPizza 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChibsFilipTelforddMen should not date virgins 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MrMushySauce2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Nah trust me you'd get hooked on nicotine if you did it long enough.

I'm decently addiction-resistant. I've done pretty much everything that isn't like heroin meth or crack lol. And most of them a handful of times. Alcohol, a very, very small addiction formed; I was more of a frequent drinker than alcoholic, tho (could go without it perfectly fine).

Nicotine took me about two years of active use to get super addicted. I started using nicotine and stopped so many times I thought I was immune to getting addicted to it.

Then I tried quitting once recently and I quickly found out what actual addiction feels like lol. Like, you've done Molly, right? The most accurate thing I could say about how quitting nicotine makes me feel is like a never-ending reverse-molly experience. The longest I've been able to stop is 5 days and it was 5 days of constantly crying, and just generally going insane lol. I literally had to quit quitting because I wasn't functional as a human lol. But yeah I'd done it more casually and stopped many times previous to it getting like this

[–]simeneta_two1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]EulenWatcherEgalitarian feminist 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]LillthOfBabylon 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]biggestuzifaneaDEEZ Pilled 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]huhwhatokokRed Pill but I fold for good pussy 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]YukbghhjjProud owner of a Napoleon complex 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]huhwhatokokRed Pill but I fold for good pussy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]huhwhatokokRed Pill but I fold for good pussy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SantarpiosPizza 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Blame_the_Muse{<my pussy tastes like pepsi cola>} 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]KatatonicsnakePurple European 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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Do people confuse anxiety for attraction?

Emotional unavailabity, push pull, unpredictable behavior, hot-cold, etc etc.

Is this why women and sometimes men OBSESS over somebody who is "kinda" into them or gives them some indication of interest but is a lot of the time cold.

Its not actual ATTRACTION to the individual, their traits, what forms them as a person. But just the constant thinking and feelings of uncertainty and speculation about IF they do or could care, get mistaken for feelings...

OR is attraction itself non existent. Its just a multitude of things. Comfort or lust or anxiety caused by obsessive uncertainty....

A guy who has options will cause anxiety in a woman because he is off giving them sex and attention when he's not interacting with the girl obsessing over him.

A guy FAKING that behaviour will eventually be found out or will have to maintain the facade FOREVER otherwise when that anxiety fades in the object of his seduction and comfort increases...what she THOUGHT was attraction will fade...

[–]E-2-butene3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CocoBabeNYC0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Women will line up to have sex wjth a rock star although he just banged 10 other chicks and she will lick their collective pussy juice off his cock. She will never have a chance to be with this man. But women love badboys for that exact reason. They are a challenge, they are not easy and they can never really have them.

Many guys go gun blazing trying to impress a girl, trying to display high value, trying to convince her that he is the guy she should be with. When the behavior that works is for you to pull back, to ask yourself "why should I give this woman my manhood, or my protection or attention, what has she done to deserve this?".

The more you tell a woman she can't have you, the more she will want you. You want more women in your life? Tell them you have very high standards. Tell them while you may sleep with someone, the chances of getting into a serious relationship with them is almost zero, unless they meet your very high standards. Watch women go out of there way to prove that they can meet those standards or at the very least fuck you raw trying to prove that they are "that" girl that deserves to be with you.

The thing is, very few guys can do that because they know subconsciously if they did that they would resolve all of their romantic issues. And their brain must sabotage them as much as possible, because a man acting like he is the prize is not the norm. Society will call you an asshole, a douchebag, a toxic badboy. So you go back to your endless pursuing and supplication. As if that ever worked.

[–]RaccoonFickle65752 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]y2kjanelle2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Female liberation isn’t just having sex with anyone, anywhere.

It’s being able to choose your sexuality and what it means to you. It’s being able to have SAFE choices that are informed and not forced. It’s being able to exist as a woman without stigma and enjoying your lifestyle with other people not forcing their opinions down your throat.

I’ve had a lot of conversations with other feminists about this because a lot of women do get confused and feel pressure to just sleep around without really sitting down to see: What do I want? What makes me feel liberated as a woman? What fits my needs right now?

Especially for younger women where environments are changing (moving for college, exploring sexuality, moving to start a new job, switching colleges, switching jobs and homes, venturing out and seeing what lifestyle fits them), it makes sense to not want something super serious right away. To have casual relationships while you are busy with your time and not quite settled yet with what you want to do or who you want to be. What type of person you want to be with, what type of sex you want to be having and with whom and how to do it safely and in tune with what makes you feel empowered and happy.

This isn’t the Paleolithic. In fact, I think places that are stricter tend to be more like that. For example, sex education is terrible in Texas. They have some of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the country. They preach celibacy as the only option like it was in the Paleolithic. It’s not like that anymore. We have education, we have drugs to combat disease, we have ways to protect yourself from those diseases and pregnancy, we have paternity tests to tell who’s the father instead of relying on monogamy, we have ways to dictate the course of our lives, unlike in places like Texas or the Paleolithic.

I would honestly argue that limiting choices and being conservative is more like the old ages than not being that way and adapting to new advancements in society.

[–]GentleDeflowering1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Ok so, I went through a huge 80s phase during my formative teen years (no, I was not born in the 80s lol I just had a brother who is a decade older than me so what he watched influenced me) but anyways here are some examples

It’s definitely a vibe that comes from style and grooming. I went through a big 80s phase in my teens so I could go on forever, lol. (And yes my bf does currently have a mustache and wild hair)

I did a random tik tok search for 80s men: She sums it up but of course she just mentions celebs, so here are a couple of randos:

1

Feels a bit more late 70s

Off the top of my head of some more semi-famous normal-ish people that give the vibe: Anthony Padilla, Chip Morgan, this artist, Matt Lieb often gives me 80s vibes

But anyways I won’t bore you with more pics of men so I will just list some of my 80s faves:

Some of my favorites 80s actors: Gerald McRaney in Simon & Simon is my #1, Michael J Fox, Tony Danza, Matt Dillon (or really anyone in the Outsiders could get it), Dirk Benedict. I also loveeee hair/glam metal dudes, like David Lynch, Sebastian Bach, David Coverdale, Paul Stanley of course. I actually have an extensive collection of hair metal on vinyl lol

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How many men are hospitalized because of being beaten by their wives again?

If you knew people that work in DV they would tell you that 80% of the time after about 20 DV is two people who have grown up around DV and they are playing it out over again. However when this happens she throws something, and he breaks her arm.

Before adulthood young people can not know the warning signs.

I moved in with my first husband when I was 15, he came from a DV household, I did not. He almost taught me how to act like his mother, but luckily I got my life together, eventually, one step at a time.

Speaking of his mother, I remember saying about her " she could make any man hit her".

Watch how they treat others. If you haven't grown up with DV look for the signs, don't think you have to put up with it, etc. This comes with maturity.

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But, here's the thing, I thought that I was unusual. Like, horrifically tragic in that I was targeted by MEN so much. Then, in university, I had a few drinks with friends. 10 females and one male. We got comfortable. Turns out, 9 of those girls were raped before 16. By uncles, a church leader, fathers and brothers and a family friend. The one girl who didn't? She grew up in a remote area, in a matriarchal family.

I am married now. Although men can be 'good' , the bar for good is very low and I often wonder why women have anything to do with men. I think of that little girl [she's referring to her younger self here] and kiss her picture at night, apologising for not being able to save her. But men don't groom grown ass women because such cowards know a woman will fight or speak up. No. They choose tiny victims or little teens .

Considering she's married, presumably to a man (or she would have mentioned her spouse's gender) shouldn't she be able to answer her own question? It's the last she mentions of her husband in the post too.

My mums friend grew up in an abusive household and married an abuser. Beat for her entire marriage. She was 60 when he died of a heart attack. Her joy was palpable and, in a short space of time, a woman who never smiled, was always bruised, dyed her hair, sold her house, bought an RV, rode around the country, took lessons in videography and created her own short clips about living life on the road .

I wonder what she would have been. I wonder what we could be.

I do wonder how long it'll be until science invents an affordable way for two girls to have a daughter together.

If that's what it will take for girls to be able to live in peace then I can't object to it.

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I don’t know about that (at least for the men), although I get your suspicion. I’ve commented from time to time that, for men, success/experience with women can also be dispiriting, e.g.:

“Positive relationships with women like ONSs, FWBs, and in some cases, LTRs, can be quite red/black-pilling.

After they come straight to your place and you bang, you listen to them talk about beta-buxxers and guys they friend-zoned taking them out to dinner and buying them gifts. You hear their phones constantly chiming/vibrating from orbiters asking what they’re up to, which they ignore. They admit that they flaked/ghosted on plans with other guys to hang out with you. You hear them lying to family, friends, orbiters on the phone as to where they’re at or what they’re doing when they’re lying next to you in bed post-bang. You see them cheating on their boyfriends/husbands because you’re in town and going back to them like nothing happened. Sometimes you only find/figure out afterward. Sometimes you even resemble their boyfriends/husbands but are just taller/richer/more jacked/more handsome. You see girls who you’ve facialed, have rimmed you, done ATM for you—sometimes on video—get married, their wedding photos on social media.

You see similar behaviors across girls, including those across different countries, time and time again.”

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The actual sub? Hell no.

The ideas of it? Kinda. I don't really agree w/ all of RPW, like I don't agree w/ all of RP either. But I talked about RP without the word RP to my ex-LTR all the time. For the most part it went pretty well.

What gives me pause for concern is that the way I can depict the world to people often causes them to get depressed, eventually. Like, I am a pretty dark-humor individual, have been through some shit, and I have a lot of accurate-but-not-pleasant 'bits of wisdom' to share. And I can really drive them home over time.

For me that's cool but ime others cannot handle it; I've caused 3 different people to get very depressed lol. My takes on RP-type stuff in relation to women tends towards that, too. With my LTR it helped her go from being a not-that-good-at-being-a-GF (I was her first BF) and not that attractive woman to knowing exactly what to do to please men and being extremely attractive. But it kinda took her innocence and shattered her worldview, and made her kinda jaded by the end.

Soooo, dunno, need to play it by ear next time around.

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I don’t know if I said this before, but I think a good topic of discussion would be over the distinction between being attractive and being appealing.

I think a lot of guy can work on being appealing even if it doesn’t translate to being physically attractive.

On r/Tinder it seems guys encounter women with a very narrow set of standards, but that is an aggregate of all those experiences.

In my experience guys just need to be attractive enough to not be repulsive and if they can make themselves appealing in other ways they have as much of a shot at getting with women. They might need to play the game a little different than a guy who is conventionally attractive, but I really think most guys can have a healthy and robust sex life and fulfilling intimate relationships if they wish to do so

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[–]mmeIsniffgluehave a nice day 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]YukbghhjjProud owner of a Napoleon complex 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]-passepar2t-"One of the best human beings on PPD" 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Willow-girl"Snake" is a verb when you're custodian ... 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Snoo_16536Fuckzoned by Mrs Drgree and GridReXX 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]edgyny𝒥𝑒𝓇𝓀-𝑜𝒻𝒻 𝑜𝒻 𝓂𝒶𝓃𝓎 𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒹𝑒𝓈 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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Men don’t think women sit around talking about feminism. Men mostly find out the women they associate (in whatever way) with have opposing views through an inconvenient process. It would be pretty odd to be on a first date and ask a woman if she holds beliefs that you would find silly and it’s not easy to get those answers by dancing around the topic or through other questions.

The internet is a place where people engage in topics they most likely wouldn’t in a real life social situation unless someone brought it up. If someone were to bring those topics up in a social situation, they’d be seen as a wet blanket and most likely be arguing with people who can’t substantiate their stance whatsoever.

My experience has been that the beliefs men hold issues with women subscribing to due to feminism will be held by a lot of younger women if you were to bring up the topic, but less older women will hold those beliefs men take issue with.

Just because it’s not talked about doesn’t mean that’s not the belief you hold.

[–]flapperfemmefatale5 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]flapperfemmefatale1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]flapperfemmefatale1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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You’re asking why men don’t bring up complex and controversial topics on a first date? I feel as if the answer to that is pretty simple, most people just don’t want to do that. That’s ignoring the fact that most people also don’t know how to have a genuine conversation, and even worse, a lot of men will lie about what they believe for the sake of getting laid (which is shameful in my opinion).

As I said, men typically find out the women they interact with have opposing beliefs and values through an inconvenient process. So sure, bringing these topics up on a first date will get you your answers in terms of what they believe in, but even when someone sees eye to eye with you, bringing those topics up can be a pretty large turnoff, especially when it comes to the gender debate.

I’ve heard many women say they believe that what men talk about in the manosphere is true, but they just don’t like to talk about it, which I totally understand, there are a lot of uncomfortable truths in the world we live in and most of the time you don’t want to address them. I don’t see anything wrong with this myself. Being “overly logical” isn’t really an ideal way to operate in life, hence why so many successful men can still struggle with dating, they place logic over emotion way to often. This is a whole other topic though.

It seems as if you weren’t really understanding what I was saying before, maybe this will clear things up.

[–]flapperfemmefatale1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Women also perform more domestic chores, managing and micromanaging household and family life, i.e. not just cleaning but also remembering what's going to expire/end, when kids have school events, what their teacher's name, what kind of pills everyone takes, when everyone's birthdays etc.

Traditionally I'd say this is true. But times are really changing and I don't think this necessarily has to be true anymore. Eg. if I as a woman wanted to take more of a traditional male role in a marriage and household, it would be quite easy to find someone willing to do that with me. For men, it would probably be not as easy to be picky about that though.

Not to mention a lot of those things like simply remembering aspects of your childs life and knowing what is going on within the house should be the responsibility of both parents imo. A good parent should care about those things regardless of if they're actually in charge of it and regardless of their gender.

[–]EulenWatcherEgalitarian feminist 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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I'm not sure if it's a discernible smell haha. The women wore the shirt for 3 days without washing the shirt, sweaty women is still going to smell like sweaty women - just one is going to be slightly more pleasant for no discernible reason.

The researchers believe that it is probably a subconscious thing that evolved in men so they were more attracted to women that were more likely to get pregnant at that point in time (since human women don't show visible signs of ovulation). And supposedly women dress 'more provocatively' near their ovulation date.

The smell is probably not all that obvious, otherwise men are going to feel more attracted to the same woman for a few days a month (and I don't think that happens). Many women are taking hormonal birth control, so that will probably affect it too.

[–]-passepar2t-"One of the best human beings on PPD" 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]343_peaches_and_teaNo PillPill 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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Apparently here in the UK if you're studying forensic science you get told that you basically have to move to the US in order to get a job. There's just not enough homicide here to get a job.

For one, the USA has 300 million people, more cities, and more young people. That obviously leads to more crime.

Two, werent the UK police busy arresting people for mean jokes while ignoring a massive sex trafficking ring for 40 years?

I understand why you might want to keep the right to bear arms in the US. I get that guns are kinda cool.

Then you dont understand.

But you are paying for that policy in blood.

Oh, I see you’re fine that law enforcement allowing these slaughters to happen and you want civilians to be punished for law enforcement’s lack of action.

This is why I dont take the “You guys need more gun control” argument because its clearly not about saving lives. Its about disarming people to give the government more people.

[–]343_peaches_and_teaNo PillPill 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]LillthOfBabylon 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The homicide rate in the US per 100,000 is 4x higher than the UK.

Most of that is gang violence. You’re not getting rid of gang violence, nor their guns, by banning guns for civilians. A lot of gangs have the money and resources to get guns off the black market.

That's a huge difference.

There have been times London has been more dangerous to live in than New York City.

Rotherham obviously happened. But by and large the police in the UK are much better than the US.

Your cops arrest people over bad jokes like a guy having his girlfriend’s pug do a Nazi salute.

We don't have as much ACAB sentiment as in the US.

ACAB people are typically pro-criminals, anyways.

A big part of that is the absence of guns.

That doesnt stop people from being violent, whatsoever.

If I lived in the US I'd be scared of the cops.

Then stop judging us for having the right to bear arms. In some situations, like in the Uvalde shooting, the police arent helpful.

But for me I would pick the UK and our lack of guns any day of the week.

I like my first amendment much more.

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Women have it easier getting dates. That’s it. If you narrow down all of “dating” to getting dates and nothing more. You are absolutely right.

But there are a shitload of other aspects to dating - getting dates, getting second dates, approval of friends/family, managing a healthy relationship, dealing with conflict, managing chores when living together, time management between work, friends and romance, raising children, marriage, sexual frequency performance and pleasure, emotional support…

I could go on. But people on this sub and single people especially, forget this because their current obstacle is getting the first date, so they dismiss that their are MUCH HARDER aspects to dating that are weighted differently among the genders.

inb4 “but that doesn’t start unless first date” no, that’s a poor argument. That’s like saying the 6th grade exam being easy when you take it makes all exams easier.

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30!? When every other woman decides to marry? I refuse to because that's when the competition is highest! It's like trying to buy a boat during the spring when the prices are too high. You buy a boat during the autumn, easy 20-25% off.

I'm 28 :) and if I can't be 28 then I'd rather be 36 when market is saturated with single moms, and I'm single and have no kids... an unicorn :)

And I'm hitting the gym, no way in hell will I fish for a husband while overweight. I can get fat after the kids :)

So I'm a 28yo average looking woman and I do have education and I'm earning for a living. Nice. Now believe it or not, I do have a charming personality and a good sense of humor and men just love that.

So I'll be looking for a looksmatch or slightly above because, why the hell would I go for anything below it. And going above it means wasting my valuable time on guys which do not want to commit, and even worse making kids with guys that are going to dump my fat ass for a younger woman after we have kids.

Single moms are female versions of incels, they get burned because they believed those Disney stories in which prince doesn't pump and dump Cinderella.

[–]EulenWatcherEgalitarian feminist 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

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I don't know. I feel you can end up getting into a position of rationalizing after the fact.

The vast majority of people wouldn’t make good undercover operatives, where they are faking every part of themselves for extended periods. Most people just aren’t that good at lying.

I find that many people who are accustomed to abusive behaviours (usually parents) don’t see red flags as red flags - eg. Someone who frequently tramples your boundaries in a “jokey way”.

Like. Yeah she was always into sex and had a high libido. Of course she cheated. That was the sign.

Naah, there’s usually better flags than that. Frequent “little lies” that seem inconsequential except why lie about that in the first place? type of stuff gets overlooked. Not considering how that comfortability with deceit can bite you in the arse later.

My wife started throwing stuff in arguments about 5 years into our relationship. She'd never done it before and then suddenly it happened quite a few times.

It sort of started to happen as our life got more stressed.

Yep. Responses to stress is a big one that can’t always be seen. Often, the person doing it surprise themselves. Because they’ve never dealt with that kind of stress before.

People gradually change over time but core value stay pretty consistent. There’s no garuantees in this life just increase and reduction of probabilities.

She's mostly stopped now after a lot of talking about it. But it did just kinda start.

When you talked about it, was it a sudden thing on her end or was it a build-up of stuff?

Funny story: I remember talking to someone on here that described his wife going crazy and being a bitch after they had a child because “she got what she wanted” and never liked him. Come to find she had been talking about her post-natal depression to him the whole time but he dismissed it as mental health mumbo-jumbo.

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Title	Daily Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	8
Comments	1030
Date	June 11, 2022 8:00 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/va5b0c/daily_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/daily-community-chat-megathread.1116370 https://theredarchive.com/post/1116370

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