Do men make terrible friends? Why is there a dependency on women fixing their loneliness?

wtknight · 2021-09-18T20:01:03+00:00

Removed for being an excessively leading, non-neutral question.

Matt_Door · 2021-09-18T13:28:33+00:00

I have lots of deep, supportive friendships with other men. Still different than an intimate romantic and sexual relationship with a woman. This should be fairly obvious

januaryphilosopher · 2021-09-18T14:08:02+00:00

Most of my friends are male, but the support, affection and validation I can give to them isn't anything like what I'd give to my partner. It's just not how friendship works, especially when it's not between two women. Good friends can certainly help with loneliness but not even the bond I have with my best friend who I've known almost my whole life is going to provide as much emotionally as romantic love. As well as that, there tends to be certain boundaries in friendship, like nonsexual touch, which many people crave but you can't exactly get a friend to do it.

lulll · 2021-09-18T13:13:04+00:00

we don't have friends the way women have friends. guy friends are the ones we hang around with and do shit with to have fun, they usually aren't very emotionally complex. sometimes they are, but i haven't seen many of those. the only time you'll get emotionally deep and complex friendships are in extreme circumstances like a war or something. stupid example but i just finished re-watching lord of the rings and i guess it fits, frodo and sam didn't share a deep bond until they went through their journey together, that's actually a good example of what it takes for men to be 'emotional' with each other, you have to go through a lot of shit

Cimorene86 · 2021-09-18T13:21:50+00:00

Men make fantastic friends. Throughout my entire life, the majority of my friends have been men/boys, and for the past 6 years or so I've only had male friends. (Not saying women can't be good friends, I've just not had much luck personally...but someday I may have a good female friend too!)

The fact that I happen to be born with a vulva doesn't mean my friends rely on me for emotional support or to "fix their loneliness". They already have other friends outside our group, wives/girlfriends, coworkers, relatives, neighbors, etc in their lives. None of them are lonely, we all have wide social circles that do more than enough to "fix" feeling lonely.

throoowwitalllawaaay · 2021-09-18T13:29:24+00:00

So just give men sex bots that are programmed to say some nice things/inspirational quotes every now and then, and the problem is solved. lol

Teflon08191 · 2021-09-18T14:13:40+00:00

Because loneliness for lack of friends and loneliness for lack of romantic partner are two completely different kinds of loneliness that only have a limited overlap with one another.

Have you never met a woman surrounded by her friends who was still lonely because she didn't have a significant other? Once all of her friends go home, she feels just as lonely as the man with no friends does.

Playful_Art_5364 · 2021-09-18T13:22:54+00:00

This culture basically downplays male friendships to a crazy level. Like everything is seen as gay. Look at the supernatural fan base. Their literally brothers and people are trynna force that. Look at Luca reviews and backlash. Other cultures like the one I’m from men literally hug, crash one the same bed when traveling, compliment another and so on. In the US women aren’t wrong about men being emotionally stunted. Issue is they caused it. You hear about all these men who when they open up to their wives or gf the women leave because they don’t want “emotional men”. They see two men being best friends and joke that their gay or will perceive them as gay. All this stuff leads men to not ever fade loping.
Deep down I think what men want and what they need is two different things. They want to get laid. But that’s like eating candy. While it’s nice to much and your sick. While good relationships are like a home cooked meal. The issue today is that with divorce rates, the culture of cheating on both sides, and all that. A lot of said “I can’t get a home cooked meal might as well settle with getting candy”. And tbh I think a lot of women have taken that route also. Which is messed up but that’s the world we created.
Historically while men did have a few close male friends. Their number one friend was always their wife. You see this with many men of history. Talking about how their wives are their true backbone. I think there’s something from that good husband wife dynamic thats unmatched by anything else.

LePengwino · 2021-09-18T14:14:23+00:00

If there are guys that are hellbent on needing a women to not be lonely, it seems only a woman can make them feel not lonely, in whatever way they're perceiving loneliness: perception can be weird I guess. Maybe they just perceive themselves as lonely unless they have a partner, and friendships don't fill the void in a way they want. Like it's a separate loneliness from platonic loneliness. Is it always just a veiled excuse for wanting to fool around? I don't know, probably sometimes.

Just food for thought. I really don't know, lol.

TodTheRod01 · 2021-09-18T16:37:27+00:00

A lot of the comments show (not all)

Women's lack of understanding when it comes to men.
The bias that female friendships and interactions are the correct way, male version is wrong.
The lack of actually caring about mens problems

SiaSara · 2021-09-18T16:55:02+00:00

I know a lot of women with a lot of friends who still feel lonely because they don't have a romantic partner. A friend can't do what a partner can.

Think_gawd · 2021-09-18T13:28:16+00:00

Translation: Blame men, blame men. next

AerieIll3707 · 2021-09-18T13:11:21+00:00

Men make great friends. Our friendships are far more authentic. It's just "different" and something women won't understand. That's okay.

You can still be lonely with friends around too.

This post is just nothing. Moot. Empty of substance.

moosemc · 2021-09-18T13:33:30+00:00

So, your analysis is:

Men are lonely losers, when it comes to women;

because;

Men are lonely losers generally.

And that's hate. In case you're wondering.

betabucks666 · 2021-09-18T13:23:20+00:00

As a guy

i think guys should get into sports or hobbies to make friends and have shit to do together(not fucking video games), then they'll do socially better and they are in a better position for a relationship.

Entering a relationship while lonely to depend on someone is a terrible idea and unhealthy start.

heyitsjeape · 2021-09-18T15:12:25+00:00

I don’t think it’s loneliness in terms of friendship but may be sexual and other types of opposite sex intimacy loneliness. For me, it’s more of just knowing wha the experience is like at this point. I have no idea.

If I were dependent on a female to cure the friendship aspect of loneliness, I’d be in pretty deep despair because they sure haven’t come around in my case. It wouldn’t make sense for me to depend on something Ive never had.

cornfedduckman · 2021-09-18T18:08:15+00:00

So OP, if you have a nice circle of girlfriends, you'd be content to never have a boyfriend/husband?

69ingbasedcoomer420 · 2021-09-18T18:29:14+00:00

Jesus this post is so dumb, it doesn’t deserve any serious response. Being lonely because of a lack of a girlfriend or affection/validation from your desired sex is totally separate from the kind of loneliness caused by a lack of friendships. You can’t possibly be this dense.

cvslengthbucketlist · 2021-09-18T18:58:35+00:00

When people, men and women, talk about being lonely and single on Valentine's Day, for instance, they're referring to wanting a significant other, not friends.

Aside from physical intimacy, a romantic relationship provides a level of support and fulfillment of your emotional needs that you don't get from your friends. There's levels to this. Otherwise by your logic we wouldn't even need friends because we could just rely on family members for the ultimate "support" and validation (like your parents loving you unconditionally, telling you you're pretty, etc.). Friends would be "redundant" in that case.

Just like we have casual friends and close friends, a partner is an additional level of honesty and mutual support above that.

Major-Panda522 · 2021-09-18T13:26:08+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Historical-Agency335 · 2021-09-18T13:56:33+00:00

Guy friends can't cuddle with you, kiss you, say they love you...

bcool_returns · 2021-09-18T14:08:09+00:00

Well, I'd argue that the most balanced men have both strong male friendships in their life as well as a woman (or women) in their lives that fulfills the sexual/romantic part of the equation. But men need both and one cannot serve as a stand in for the other. They are different vats that cannot be mixed. The friendship vat can be completely full and the sexual one completely starved. And while women are seemingly much better at cultivating a social ecosystem, and speak about the virtues of it, even then, I'm not sure are fully happy without a guy they respect and feels respects them in their life.

Finally, "solution to their loneliness" I think is one of those charged statements which is more about what women fear vs. what always happens. What's clear is that women rightfully don't want any outsized burden placed on them and are strongly attracted to men who have a strong sense of reality and self-validation. Funny enough, these men, as the relationship deepens and the woman gets more invested and wants him to spend more time with her, will also have clear boundaries and not be afraid to tell her he's going out with his friends for a few hours.

Philip8000 · 2021-09-18T15:40:23+00:00

[permanently deleted]

back_in_blyat · 2021-09-18T14:59:09+00:00

I don't see how you make the leap from "men have an objectively harder time in dating, and securing a parter of the opposite sex of an intimate nature" to "men make terrible friends".

Do you not think that there is something unique or special about an intimate relationship with a member of the opposite sex or do you really believe that a significant majority people could go through their entire lives completely satisfied on all levels with appropriate same sex friends?

SpanishM · 2021-09-18T15:01:43+00:00

I'm not whining about loneliness/blue balls, but you're talking about two different things.

> The reason why people just think it's just men whining about blue balls is because guys seem extremely reluctant to just go make friends.

Male friends can't fix the blue balls problem. Not even female friends can, unless they are "...with benefits"

Friendship and romantic/sexual relationships are different domains. You can have friends and feel lonely in the other area.

That said, "Reddit" =/= "Men". There are 4 billion guys in this world.

SuperSupremeKai · 2021-09-18T15:16:31+00:00

Friendships != Relationships, especially if it was a friendship with the same sex.

AtaCome7821 · 2021-09-18T15:28:14+00:00

You do know someone can be lonely around people? Also having friends is an easy way for a guy in that situation to see what he's missing out.

Jesus it's not hard to show some empathy for once.

This is why I believe in Stoicism, it's better to see your loneliness as solitude rather than loneliness.

helloiamheretohelp · 2021-09-18T15:07:32+00:00

Has anyone considered that (1) men are built to compete with each other and form temporary alliances, so emotional vulnerability and closeness isn’t a feature of male friendship, and (2) women don’t want to provide virtually any emotional support for their man (because they feel entitled and don’t feel like they should be doing any giving in an LTR) so men’s reasonable need for reassurance as an escape from the coldness and harshness of the world is met with ‘stop using me as your therapist!’?

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-09-18T15:55:23+00:00

So if men aren't solely looking for a wet hole, why do they see women as a solution to their loneliness? Are men so terrible to each other that they have to look to women for comfort?

I may suspect bad faith given the phrasing but it's a good question.

1st I'd question the premise that women are sufficient unto themselves where men are not. Do any het women really say "My girlfriends supply all my emotional wants and needs and a male is superfluous in that area"?

2nd, socially there's a huge difference between how we view and treat emotionality in women and men. Where I work on occasion a female co-worker has come into the back offices in tears. At that time the entire place practically goes into lock down to make sure she's emotionally safe. A full investigation, trainings and some kind of group therapy follow. If a guy did that I don't know what would happen, but I think he'd be viewed as slightly deficient somehow, though a little surface pity might be offered.

3rd. Maybe it's a mommy thing.

4th. I have had male friends who I thank God for during a very low point in my life. It was very supportive but it wasn't the same sort of deep emotional intimacy that a relationship with a woman has.

5th. I've said before that I think for some people who didn't have very loving families, their 1st relationships are where they learn how to properly love and be loved by another person, or where they learn that they are capable of being loved (by someone who isn't obligated to do so).

6th. There's no right-of-passage for men, blah blah, etc.

edit 7th. Chasing the dragon which is the rush of "falling in love" and being in love.

0112358f · 2021-09-18T15:59:26+00:00

Generally male friendships involve shared enjoyment in common hobbies. Absolutely no affection, very little validation. In some ways they offer far more support then most female friends do in others less - male support tends to be very "real" but also expected more in emergencies as opposed to a constant emotional exchange. It's more a "when someone has a serious problem they can't handle everyone pitches in to fix the problem" at which point they can all go back to hanging out and just having fun again.

LeaveThisPlanet · 2021-09-18T13:43:57+00:00

It's always been crazy to me than men look to women for EVERYTHING they need. Validation, company, companionship, whatever. They really can't just deal with their issues on their own, within their own gender and leave women alone. They blame women for everything that's wrong in their lives, they can never take any responsibility. The are not capable of being happy and content and fulfilled on their own, without women. It's so incredibly sad, pathetic and it shows enormous amounts of insecurity.

stoned-mulvi · 2021-09-18T13:25:47+00:00

Because guy friends have their own partners to take care of, they are too busy taking their partners emotions so they cant handle anymore

Awan-Zada · 2021-09-18T16:13:02+00:00

Radical Lesbian feminists don't understand straight relationships.

TheJim66 · 2021-09-18T15:13:24+00:00

Men don't have trouble getting friends. They have trouble getting women to want to fuck them.

Romantic love is very important to not feeling lonely regardless of the gender. Women are simply SOMEWHAT able to last a longer stretches without it because they don't have the libido men have and are showered with attention from the opposite sex all the time.

AutoModerator · 2021-09-18T13:07:35+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

JumboJetz · 2021-09-18T16:58:55+00:00

If the argument is that male friends should be more emotionally supportive, I agree 1000%. I think it’s maybe slowly changing but we are nowhere near where we need to be as a gender.

However - craving romantic companionship isn’t an urge that will go away for most men.

Banned_BY_SOYMEN · 2021-09-18T17:01:27+00:00

There's a stat that suggests the majority of men are pretty much loners. I don't think smartphones and government lockdowns have helped the matter.

parahacker · 2021-09-18T17:41:08+00:00

It's not that men make terrible friends. It's that both men and women make terrible friends to men.

It's called gender bias. Get raised up in a culture that constantly demonizes a sex, and this is what will result.

Are men exempt from being biased against men? Hardly. Everyone is part of this, except for the people who actively struggle against hatred of men. Self- and self-group bias is absolutely a thing.

But telling men to stop trying to get women friends and be friends with each other is missing the point too. It's not that men are bad friends to men either. It's that damn near everyone is.

Unless that man is useful to you somehow.

AramisNight · 2021-09-18T18:22:15+00:00

"Thing is: Friends can also be affectionate, and give validation."
No.

VitalSynthax · 2021-09-18T18:32:30+00:00

Yes. Men make terrible friends

There is a catch-22 though. You can only really get that emotional support with women but you can't get women consistently if you try to show that emotional side.

Hence an epidemic of men who either don't get women or content themselves with unfulfilling relationships because those are better than being alone.

I reckon the solution is simply what's always happened. Men have to deal with their own problems as they always have and we should stop misleading them into thinking they can be emotional and still be attractive.

JALopo1 · 2021-09-18T18:48:41+00:00

Men don't make bad friends for men but if you look at statistics people men include have less and less friends than in previous ages.

RealityIsMeaningless · 2021-09-18T18:57:07+00:00

[permanently deleted]

NigroqueSimillima · 2021-09-18T19:49:56+00:00

Men have a built in need for emotional intimacy from women. That fact that they can't get this from other men doesn't mean anything other than they're not attracted to men. Attraction isn't just physical, it's behavior, and emotional. Women provide certain emotional intimacy men are not capable of getting from men, regardless of how good a friend they are.

Women clearly feel the same way about men, so I'm not sure why you're acting like this is a male only phonema. They're plenty of women who even admit that they prefer male friends to female friends.

TheEndTrend · 2021-09-18T19:57:50+00:00

I’m very close with my buddies and we share most everything, but I don’t live with them. It’s intimate, but not as intimate.

pfmarshallx · 2021-09-18T19:58:33+00:00

NO They DON’T. The REAL Reason, as brilliant research by Dr. Leonard Sax (of “Why Gender Matters” and “Boys Adrift”) is that men and women are NATURALLY DIFFERENT. OUR friendships are based on mutual ACTIVITIES and camaraderie (leisure sports teams, etc), while “Women” Friendships are connection based on deep emotional. This is why Men need an opposite sex partner for that part of his life, unless or until he has evolved to keep it all in himself or talk to his dog. The problem is the vindictiveness of the mating pool for us straight eligible modern men in the West here today, they’ll more likely use it against us, when they can’t get their entitled way. We wish we had the ladies of our Grandmothers, but since we likely won’t (the numbers or exceptions to this modern rule is vanishingly small and continue to vanish) we can’t trust either way.

WilliamWyattD · 2021-09-18T13:44:58+00:00

The differences between male and female friendships is an interesting area to explore. It's unclear to me why men tend to lose their friendships when they marry more than women do. It does seem that perhaps men need structure to maintain friendships more than women do. Men like to do things with friends more than just hang out. And perhaps it is harder to maintain those formal structures, like sports teams or group activities, once you have a family.

There are also differences in terms of how men relate to one another. Men can provide a certain type of emotional support to one another if they are taught how, but it is still different than what women do. Part of it is male nature and part of it is that burden of male emotional performance that is reinforced by female preference.

All that said, friendship doesn't replace intimate romantic relationships for either gender. But it probably does go further for women. Still, I do think we need to help men develop better lifelong male support networks.

Ultimately, though, I think it is important to remember that men and women are in this together. Female problems are male problems and male problems are female. If we reduce gender dynamics to a zero sum contest between men and women we all lose.

wtknight · 2021-09-18T14:51:09+00:00

I think that men like the combination of sex and friendship that he gets from an ideal female partner. I hung out with groups of male friends in high school and part of college and, when you're a guy and not having sex, you just feel like kind of a loser even if you have friends. Men just want sex that much more than women, and women just don't seem to be able to put themselves in the shoes of men when it comes to this.

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-09-18T14:54:06+00:00

It's not men that I see constantly on these sites talking about "why don't women want to be just friends?" , it's usually women

But as far as male friendships it's not always the most emotionally complex thing but if you have true friendships, you can go to them with anything, the circle of people I consider to be my true TRUE friends I can count on one hand, but we got each other's back on pretty much anyting

Neptune-Jr · 2021-09-18T14:57:36+00:00

There's a difference in the affection a friend provides and the affection a loving girlfriend provides. The girlfriend one is heavily sought out because it's in our biology. Just having friends won't stop that loneliness. Heck, Having friends that you hang out with regularly that are in relationship of their own, can make it feel worse. Especially when said friends opt to hang with their partners instead of you. Men are humans just like woman. A women having friends doesn't stop that desire to cuddle up with a loving boyfriend, no?

Devourer_of_felines · 2021-09-18T15:02:02+00:00

Considering how many articles and videos abound of women bemoaning a lack of suitable men to marry I don’t see how you get off on framing it as a men make terrible friends issue.

And do you really not understand how support and affection from a SO differs from support and validation from a friend?

TodTheRod01 · 2021-09-18T16:17:11+00:00

Ya id say again this is a problem only because WOMEN are basically stating men to men friendships aren't like women to women friendships in terms of dynamics, how we hang out and etc.

My male friends are the least dramatic and most dependable
Out of all my friends the only ones id tell super serious/deep stuff are only men.

Also friends dont replace lovers...VASTLY different

Jakes1967 · 2021-09-18T16:30:24+00:00

So if men aren't solely looking for a wet hole, why do they see women as a solution to their loneliness?

Genetics, DNA, social programming....

Are men so terrible to each other that they have to look to women for comfort?

Look up the Bromance study and you'll see the reason why men don't hold robust friendships...

Do men make terrible friends? Why is there a dependency on women fixing their loneliness?

Comments

If 90% of your interactions with people are complaining, people don't want to be around you.

Title	Do men make terrible friends? Why is there a dependency on women fixing their loneliness?
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	24
Comments	524
Date	September 18, 2021 1:07 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/pqm484/do_men_make_terrible_friends_why_is_there_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-men-make-terrible-friends-why-is-there-a.1075763 https://theredarchive.com/post/1075763