The worst thing about modern expectations is that women roles and social duties have been eased while men roles and social duties have increased or stayed same

ChadChasingBReturns · 2025-10-13T13:23:05+00:00

I’ve personally seen you saying that expect women to follow gender roles, very conservative ones for your country. Why are you crying about roles for men? Those conservative roles are what led your ability to get an arranged marriage and to be a nepo baby that constantly brags about how your family land, govt job, and everything else will be handed to you. You’re mad that it also comes with responsibilities? You also support the system.

CauchyRiemann04 · 2025-10-13T07:27:03+00:00

Women worked to free themselves of gender roles. There wasn’t a mass clemency given to them by men, no one said “here you go, you’re free now”.

I’m a man. I don’t like certain gender roles. I don’t perform those roles. Most people don’t give a shit, and I don’t care about those who do.

Only you can set yourself free.

Colt_Master · 2025-10-13T08:21:18+00:00

You mix a bunch of expectations coming from different sources that make little sense to ground together

socially expected to be the provider, work more

The only part of society who expects you this in western societies is the dating market. The dating market in this context is nothing more than women who seek to date's collective preferences for who they want to date. If you think women's standards in general are unreasonable in comaprison to men's average standards and that it is a societal problem, it should be argued individually.

be less emotional, hide thier stress

These masculinity expectations are more society-wide. However the flip side of society expecting men to be strong to a higher degree than women, is female infantilization and assumption of weakness. Weak woman is just her natural state, not anything to look down unlike weak men. It's debatable if this is particularly unjust for men.

give up their body to the state

Societies putting men on the frontlines and women in the backlines is a pragmatic political decision in response to biological realities, it is done because throughout millennia it's proven to be the strategy that helps countries win wars the most. It is not some double moral standard where women deserve peace and tranquility and men not, it's cold logical calculation. This in heavy contrast to dating preferences or masculinity standards that individuals have. There's little sense in putting them all into the same bucket.

Novadina · 2025-10-13T07:00:37+00:00

I am in a friend group where most of the women make more money than the men (so they aren’t “providers”), none are in the army, they work around equal hours, and some of them are pretty emotional. They just don’t care that red pill types think they are cucks or whatever, they live in a liberal area and it’s literally no problem at all. I can’t speak to Ukraine, but if you are in the US there are plenty of cities you can live where you won’t be forced to conform to a gender role.

Sweet_Discount4485 · 2025-10-13T21:24:18+00:00

Ultimately, it's on us to change all that. If we even want to.

It would take a generation or two of stay at home dads and men generally refusing to do traditional masculinity but it can happen.

There's just social risks that most men aren't willing to take.

Idk how men can both ascribe to social conservatism and yet complain about our traditional roles being too hard.

ResponsibilityAny217 · 2025-10-13T11:29:55+00:00

Expound more on the societal duties that have been erased for women.

duncan-the-wonderdog · 2025-10-13T14:33:38+00:00

Until something is done about workers rights, the plight of men will not change.

Until you all start caring about the things that actually decrease the quality of life for men, things will not change.

SexCrispies · 2025-10-13T08:21:51+00:00

HAHAHA, what, dude?

The best example of this is in Ukraine

Modern expectations, and then you list Ukraine. Ukraine is not modern. Ukraine has gender roles that are comparable to the 1970s-1980s in the US.

The majority of men believe showing signs of weakness and submission, whether at home or in public, is disgraceful. Roughly 82 per cent say that women, too, should adhere to traditional gender roles, like cooking, cleaning and caring for children. https://www.unfpa.org/news/men-ukraine-hold-fast-gender-norms-landmark-study-finds

Minute-Ad-7133 · 2025-10-13T08:24:01+00:00

If men don't want to earn, they are free not to earn. There's no obligation upon them, but if you don't earn how would you support yourself. If both the partners are earning they should contribute to the household finances.

sister_submissive · 2025-10-13T06:30:39+00:00

If you don't like conservative standards, then... don't conform to them? Not trying to say that you're wrong for being angered at how men are still required to serve, but is that women's fault? Maybe nobody should serve, and your country should rely on a professional army instead? Again, not presenting this as an end-all be-all answer, but overall, choosing to dunk on women for the principles you've chosen to confrom to is weird.

PopularEquivalent651 · 2025-10-13T19:39:33+00:00

I'm sorry but this simply isn't true.

I am a man. I care about men's issues.

Research shows that women — after taking on careers — still end up doing most of the housework and emotional labour in relationships.

So, it's not true to say things have gotten easier for them but harder for men. In many ways things have actually gotten harder for women.

DrunkOnRamen · 2025-10-13T14:25:33+00:00

I joined and served in the Ukrainian army to defend my country and kill some Russians. I didn't join cause of gender rolls and as a dual citizen I could have just stayed away in the USA.

Solondthewookiee · 2025-10-13T10:10:02+00:00

Men have preferred to lean conservative while women have preferred to lean progressive. This is the result of that. Conservative means things don't change. Women have spent decades fighting for change for women, if men want the same they need to do the same. Unfortunately, the biggest men's movement would prefer to complain about mandatory paternity testing and who pays for first dates.

Lower-Base-2014 · 2025-10-13T17:46:13+00:00

True, but every time we say it, do the feminists and bluepillers care? they don't realize men still have to get drafted, expected to 'take care' of his woman by providing, putting our life on the line for a random woman who has no familial connection or doesn't know us like we don't deserve the same amount of protection as men? Putting ourselves on way of traffic while she walks away because it's the 'man' thing to do? If we want to opt out of being in a child's life we still have to pay and still are expected to take care of them but we are deadbeats even if we never intended to have said child?

And on the women's side, they have all the freedom to do whatever with no sense of duty to men and society. Paying bills? Not a duty, that's just being an adult to take care of yourself. Women don't have to get drafted if WW3 happens but men do, yet they fought for the same rights as men? Women don't even want to have children anymore majority of them according to the data don't, so why don't they do the same duties men do if not? Most women don't provide for a man, if you told a woman you want to be a stay at home dad you'd be dropped in a heartbeat, most women don't want to struggle and work hard while you stay at home, she thinks it's her job yet it's also not her duty anymore to be a homemaker. Women get married and don't care about traditional roles, but you must adhere to them as a man, provide for the home, protect her, do hard labor, go to work, and put your life on the line for what? All for her to stay at home, not pay bills despite her working, complain when you don't do 'domestic' labor despite actually being the breadwinner and working long hours, and as a man nowadays you can't even get intimacy because these women don't put out for average men for for Brad and Pookie.

Until the laws, system and social norms change for men and women to ACTUALLY be equal in terms of duties and responsibilities this nonsense will never ever be fixed in our lifetime.

Velocirappthor · 2025-10-13T06:37:11+00:00

Really? Because i’m not expected to woo anyone for months, nobody expects me to commit my life if i decide to move in with someone, nobody will bat an eye if i’m not sole provider or even a primary breadwinner.

I see this thing about army but i can counter that women are still giving birth. “Not all women” well guess what, not all men are in the army also.

OkKindheartedness769 · 2025-10-13T06:56:39+00:00

Do you not enjoy high expectations? Like is the responsibility of prove yourself in a career, protect, and be brave, hold the emotional burdens for others, prioritize the people depending on you over self etc.

None of these sound like unenjoyable roles to fulfill. I’d much rather play this character than be given a script that says your primary job in life is to be attractive, find a partner and raise children. That sounds pretty nauseating.

I just don’t get why don’t like the traditionally masculine role.

Downtown_Cat_1745 · 2025-10-13T12:55:26+00:00

How? My son can wear a dress if he wants to and use he/they pronouns, and it’s seen as a valid choice.

If you’re in a country that hasn’t conscripted anyone into service in more than 50 years, stop whining.

ConstipatedAvocado · 2025-10-13T08:20:02+00:00

Again, women on here acting as if they dont know what OP is talking about. And then from the other side of their mouth complain about the number of men adhering to more conservative attitudes or listening to men like Andrew Tate. Its the problem with this sub, and much of this debate in general, women often absolutely refusing to debate this in good faith.

Numerous data in the UK speaks to young mothers increasingly leaving the workforce to look after children, pray tell, who exactly is paying the bills in this arrangement???

bbc.com/worklife/article/20250814-women-leaving-work-issie-lapowsky-katty-kay-interview

https://www.mother.ly/career-money/work-and-motherhood/why-moms-are-leaving-the-workforce-2025/

They hide behind "the cost of childcare" despite numerous government programs to subsidise childcare costs. And, even then, why should childcare be cheap? Often times its minimum wage workers caring for 15-20+ annoying ass kids at once. When women do opt for a more involved role in the early developmental years, financial burden falls onto the man...and often this same role goes unappreciated. Its absolutely no wonder a lot of men are refusing to commit/marry/support women when they want children.

One thing I remember saying to my wife very early into our relationship was "if you want kids, you better fucking say so from the jump...dont come to me in 5 years asking why our relationship hasnt progressed knowing damn well you pretended as if that wasnt a big deal in the beginning". The big issue with many of the masculin burdens placed on men is that women try to play this game where they pretend they're not a big deal whilst simultaneously penalising men for not adhering to them.

I mean, despite the bullshit people on here peddle, Pew literally found this out nearly a decade ago.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/09/20/americans-see-men-as-the-financial-providers-even-as-womens-contributions-grow/

Roughly seven-in-ten adults (71%) say it is very important for a man to be able to support a family financially to be a good husband or partner. By comparison, 32% say it’s very important for a woman to do the same to be a good wife or partner, according to a new Pew Research Center survey.

Flightlessbirbz · 2025-10-14T02:05:15+00:00

Men are no longer expected to support a family on one income. Technological advances have greatly reduced men’s physical labor. There hasn’t been a draft in the US since the 1970s. Men aren’t jailed or nearly as persecuted for being gay or not adhering to traditional masculine presentation.

There’s a reason old men always think young men are “soft,” even if it’s not an entirely fair assessment. Because in terms of physical labor and danger, life does tend to get easier with each passing generation, even if it gets harder in a lot of other ways.

Ukraine isn’t a very progressive country compared to the US and Western European countries. This would be similar to me saying “because women in Iran legally have to wear the hijab, I don’t think women have made any progress in the last 100 years.” Like yes, it’s all relevant, but you can’t compare the expectations of one gender in one country, to the expectations of the other gender in an entirely different country.

AutoModerator · 2025-10-13T06:25:24+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

AutoModerator · 2025-10-13T06:25:24+00:00

Hi OP,

You've chosen to identify your thread as a Debate. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. PPD has guidelines for what that involves.

OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.

An unwillingness to debate in good faith may be inferred from one or several of the following:

Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;

Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;

Focusing only on the weaker arguments;

Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.

Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to Debate OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Trancetastic16 · 2025-10-13T09:59:58+00:00

While I agree that the balance sucks, especially when it is due to societal and not biological reasons, remember that it’s a filtering method the same as any other, and even though a male being gender non-conforming will turn away the vast majority of women, it is what it is and better to determine that you are not compatible and that they can not or do not want to compromise on it sooner rather than later, so I advise that gender non-conforming men commit to it and defend your values in response to criticism, and hopefully those who would be willing to date you are able to recognise your extra bravery from trailblazing social norms.

It appears that there were also women who were conscripted in the Ukraine military but (understandably) are seen as too risky for the frontlines, but I agree that it was sexist and unacceptable the amount of men who were forced to stay and women who were able to leave.

loseraadmi · 2025-10-13T21:54:55+00:00

high iq by gbk's alt.

for women it is feminism but for men trad provider man

izzywizzle · 2026-03-28T11:01:47+00:00

No man I know has given his body to the state, and men are not expected to be less emotional than they used to. With women in the workforce, the burden on men as providers only exists in men's imagination. We are all expected to work more, not just men.

This take seems more based on random shit OP heard online rather than lived experience

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-10-13T20:55:00+00:00

Nope.

Providing is a niche, not the norm.

Nor is authority/headship

Nor is mechanical competence and fiscal management

Nor is social dominance or aggression

All those things have been largely outsourced to women and paid labor

Dismal-Alfalfa-7613 · 2025-10-14T03:31:07+00:00

I wish you losers would shut up about Ukraine. Like how cool, bringing a war torn country led by a conservative psychopath to support your narrative.

Title	The worst thing about modern expectations is that women roles and social duties have been eased while men roles and social duties have increased or stayed same
Author	poorbatman243
Upvotes	122
Comments	313
Date	October 13, 2025 6:25 AM UTC (10 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1o5c6zn/the_worst_thing_about_modern_expectations_is_that/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-worst-thing-about-modern-expectations-is-that.1564015 https://theredarchive.com/post/1564015

Comments