The relationship zones video explains why women are self-sabotaging

Swordfromthecement · 2023-11-18T13:26:44+00:00

Yep. The issue is they’re usually not attracted to the friendzoned guy.

But I don’t know if you can force attraction, I think men have lower standards (and lower opinions of ourselves) so it’s easier for us to take the worst option and deal with it.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2023-11-18T18:09:15+00:00

Some women already do this.. They get ditched and become the starter girlfriend.

crookedsummer2019 · 2023-11-18T13:14:09+00:00

Ok, so men should follow suit and do the same, date women they actually don’t want to date. If she’s overweight and you don’t like overweight women, don’t wait for her to get fit, just date her right then and there.

Does this make sense to you? Dating women you don’t want? Because reverse the genders and this is exactly what you are saying women should do.

Well, we aren’t going to do that, just like you aren’t going to date a woman you don’t want to date and would probably not appreciate someone telling you you should.

So get over it.

Aromatic_Ad5473 · 2023-11-18T13:46:39+00:00

Choosing to stay single instead of settling isn’t women screwing themselves.

Women aren’t looking for projects.

metasekvoia · 2023-11-18T17:09:03+00:00

So what you are advising is: lead him on, give him false hopes, risk with violent revenge once he realizes he's not the one.

MistyMaisel · 2023-11-18T14:07:20+00:00

I've said it once, I'll say it again:

I and my pussy are not a rehab center for lost boys.

And do you know why? Beyond the fact that I don't really believe in me or my pussy to push a man into long and lasting change so much as short term performance... when men change because you pushed them into it, they have this tendency to either resent you and leave you (I suspect because they don't like the imbalance of you knowing who they were or are deep down) or they just plain leave because they believe they can do better than you now.

It's a fool's quest. I was a fool when I was on that quest. It isn't real. You aren't all frogs who just need a little sugar to become PC. That's the fairy tale you're telling yourselves and you need to stop because the first step to being PC is recognizing you're a frog.

Finally, even if i could and wanted to do this, I don't think it would be moral of me to do so. Only a man would think it's ok to hop in someone's life and brain and alter them so they can be your mate. I don't think that. I think it's wrong to play God in someone else's life for my selfish benefit like that. I think that the fact I don't like them that way means they belong with someone else who doesn't mind whatever that is. And if that isn't anyone else, I still think they deserve to change on their own schedule, not my schedule.

If you need a real life example, do you really think it's healthy or harmonious to tell someone you'd wife them if they weren't fat? Fuck no. Even if she loses the weight, she's always going to know your love isn't for her and is contingent on something often difficult to control. What a nightmare of a relationship. And she's probably not going to lose the weight, right. We know this. Because she doesn't really want to. You're just pushing around a fat chick and hurting her for your gain. That isn't loving. And if you'd do that, you're a sick ticket in your brain box.

I also in general while enjoying the art and lay out, agree this is peak autism and it is peak autism which doesn't have enough complexity on the male side, too much on the female side, and badly needs a whole other page on ages and human development.

We aren't self sabatoging. You're assuming the end goal is just to have a relationship which is stable. It's not. The fact men endlessly misunderstand this is what tells me you guys need a separate chart, and I don't have colored pencils, but I'll make one here:

Men Bad relationship = sure Neutral relationship= yes Good relationship = ideal hooray

Women Bad relationship = no Neutral relationship = no Good relationship = yes

Tl:dr: you can't, shouldn't, and I personally will not rehab frogs. And I do not recommend anyone (man or woman) do so.

LillthOfBabylon · 2023-11-18T13:27:58+00:00

women are self-sabotaging

It’s not women complaining about lonliness.

Women inherently screw themselves by not investing in men with potential

“If you cant handle me at my worst, you dont deserve me at my best”.

Same energy.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-11-18T17:37:00+00:00

Your edit now encourages women to lead their platonic male friends on then decided after he’s jumped through enough hoops whether or not she’s physically attracted.

So men want to be treated as pinch hitters? A back up plan? Men want to be settled for?

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-11-18T18:18:53+00:00

. It means just give him a few nudges u do not have to fuck him or anything but clearly he is invested in you, just give him minor investments

And then, she'll get accused of leading the guy on, and he'll make a post on PPD about how women are lying, manipulative whores.

Your whole post is basically ''throw a bone to the guys you're not into because they might, potentially, hypothetically, turn into guys you're into one day, in a few years''. There's no guarantee that this dude won't just remain who he is, there's no guarantee that any ''nudging'' would get him to change or that this change would even last past him getting what he wants. Why invest time and energy into someone you have zero interest in, in the hopes that they might become a different person, rather than invest time in the people who are already the kind of person you're looking for?

Sadsad0088 · 2023-11-18T13:23:49+00:00

How do you push a guy to change his face bone structure?

zaqariah9999 · 2023-11-18T14:08:24+00:00

Self sabotaging because she isn't giving the ugly guy with zero social skills a chance? yea sure she's soooo gonna regret it later lmao

Lenovo_Driver · 2023-11-18T13:38:11+00:00

The only reason any of this garbage resonates with red pilled dudes is because they all think they’re temporarily ugly ducklings who will become beautiful swans if they red pill hard enough..

Imagine applying this dumbass logic to any other facet in life…

“hire me to a job I am extremely unqualified for… I have potential to one day be competent, ignore that I am terminally online and have none of the traits required today for it”
“give me a mortgage for a house that I can’t afford, I have potential and will one day be able to make the payments, ignore that it may or may not happen 10 years from now”

A man worth dating will never have to beg for it or cling unto bullshit like potential as if life is some kind of video game with attributes…

throwawayconfessunz · 2023-11-18T13:02:18+00:00

I can promise you with absolute certainty, that if you understand women, you aren’t doing YouTube videos under the alias ‘hoe_math’ complaining about how women choose their partners.

This is 25 minutes of a guy making massive generalizations that does nothing to help anyone other than try and justify a bunch of angry mens opinions on the internet that it’s womens fault they are lonely not theirs.

ovolebron · 2023-11-18T21:12:43+00:00

What all of this literally boiled down to is: become what you think women want and cross your fingers that she’ll look your way.

This shit is sad, firstly why the fuck do you care what they want when they clearly don’t care what you want. Women can recognize a dude who isn’t being himself and instead trying to become some dude he thinks a chick would bang/date. The dudes women actually want are guys who aren’t desperate and on first glance don’t look like they’ll take any woman just because she looks good.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-11-18T13:40:08+00:00

This is very hard to watch, it’s so painfully awkward.

Why is the mailman moved to the “bad boy” category just because he’s good looking?

What in the world would anyone spend this much time spitballing with no actual conclusion whatsoever?

If there is no mutual attraction, men are people. That’s it. Not potential boyfriends, not potential fuckbuddies, not potential anything. They are generic human beings deserving of respect who are largely forgotten the moment they are out of sight. Same as women. Same as children, same as elderly.

jazzmaster1992 · 2023-11-18T14:16:18+00:00

I mean, "potential" can be relative. Some partners get together and stay together through tough financial times and other hardships. Many people stay with someone even as they struggle after hitting a rough patch, or are still working on their future. Personally, I'd argue that everyone is a "work in progress", we are always changing and growing. I expect every person I meet to have flaws and bad days, just like I do. But I don't feel entitled to or expect everyone to put up with my shit or not reject me, just like they can't expect it from me.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-11-18T22:48:31+00:00

You don’t think trying to manipulate someone you don’t like like that into your ideal partner is kind of… creepy? As well as unlikely to actually work in the long term.

I know if I had a guy friend I liked but didn’t like me who kept saying things like “ya know I really like skinny girls with boob jobs” and that wasn’t me, I would just feel like shit. I can’t imagine a guy would feel much different about that.

Safinated · 2023-11-18T15:13:32+00:00

Why should we date a man for what he might be instead of what he actually is? That’s setting up both sides for disappointment

dalen52 · 2023-11-18T13:27:17+00:00

Why can’t guys stay in their lane and stop mansplaining? People are allowed to pick their partner. And sometimes it doesn’t work out.

kalashhhhhhhh · 2023-11-18T14:51:12+00:00

The video is wrong. I would personally categorize my own desire differently. I might draw a graph and send it to you some time later.

Cool_Relative7359 · 2023-11-18T14:45:02+00:00

So women should take on "projects" and hope they can I fluence their development and growth enough to make them into someone they want to date?

Thought the problem was with women trying to "fix" or change men? Make it make sense.

Dressed2Thr1ll · 2023-11-18T13:26:19+00:00

Who is self sabotaging? Lmao.

Not us ladies 💅

AceOfSpadesGymBro2 · 2023-11-18T14:37:59+00:00

If men expended the same energy in making themselves more appealing to women instead of spending it on rationalizing why it's women's fault for why they never get any pussy, none of you will ever have dating problems ever again.

Freethinker312 · 2023-11-18T16:27:35+00:00

The video does not make sense, because of the following reasons:

The use of the words "good" and "bad" makes no sense at all. Being able to invest a lot of money and/or time does not make a man morally better than a man who isn't able to do that. Wearing "representable" clothes does not make a man morally better than a man who wears worn out clothes. Having good looks or being "masculine" doesn't make a man morally worse than an ugly man who isn't "masculine". (By the way, if you agree with the video, you apparently believe that "masculinity" is inherently bad. Isn't that misandric?)
There is the statement "money is power", which certainly has a lot of truth in it, yet according to the video, having money (to invest in a woman) makes a man good, while having power makes a man bad. How can the same stuff make a man good and bad at the same time?

The way in which the video divides the characteristics into "good" and "bad", does not make sense, and using the words "good" and "bad" in such a meaningless way, just shows the lack of actual moral values.

BumblingBeaz · 2023-11-18T18:08:52+00:00

this is the stupidest thing I have read in a while, honestly.

"This does not MEAN date the friend zoned guy u feel nothing for. It means just give him a few nudges u do not have to fuck him or anything but clearly he is invested in you, just give him minor investments like when ur around. "

Why are women going to do this for some man they aren't even interested in? We should just run around saying feely good things to men we aren't interested in, so men feel better?

zoxzoxzo · 2023-11-18T14:00:48+00:00

I remember seeing this video before. I think there is truth in it, but the extent of it can be debated

Femcelphobic · 2023-11-18T16:25:23+00:00

For the strategy you outlined in your post to work a woman will need to have roster of 2-3+ friend zoned guys/orbiters because not all people are willing to put the work in to better themselves and you don’t want to put all of your eggs in one basket. So what you’re say is that you should promptly dangle the carrot of affection/a legitimate relationship in front of them (just enough for them to stick around/be invested). Afterwards you see which one progresses the most or shows acceptable promise and take him off the market. Actually this is a great strategy and I agree with it, I encourage all women to keep their options open and never burn bridges. Different strategies work for different women but I think women do themselves a disservice by limiting their options.

SeveralLiterature980 · 2023-11-18T17:51:03+00:00

Lol the fact that all these videos are coming out that have the not-so-subtle message of...

is she worth it? is she really?

Half the reason you don't want to be the guy who takes a woman out on dates, waits 4 or 5 dates to get to sex, and be the guy she shows off in public is because you know --- see like 20 years ago, you could roll the dice 50/50 this would be the case, whereas today it's 100% certainty --- that there was some guy in the past and probably more than one who just got to roll in, do whatever, and she'd be down to go hook up with them whenever.

Meanwhile, if, as this video rightly points out, if you have other girls --- it irks her --- but it's not going to stop her from hooking up with you.

Contrast this with the good guy.

After spending oodles of time and oodles of attention and probably a pretty penny, you get some sex. Then you get to go out in public with her --- who knows, maybe you'll meet some of her friends, one or two she's previously slept with, you'll never know, and always have to just sort of wonder at those tight hugs and inside jokes hahahaha!

If other girls show interest in you, oh you and her are gonna be THROUGH YOU CHEATING ASSHOLE!

LOL

The boyfriend/Good guy: 2023 sucker of the year award.

To get back to the OP, it's actually not that smart for them to keep that guy around because these good guys, so called, are waking up and have realized how to leverage their 'good guy' ness to themselves have multiple girls on tap.

Those Are We Dating the Same Guy? groups have 2 main types of guys in there:

the typical gl, player looking guys

and

very normal looking, well-dressed more professional looking types (aka the good guys)

Both types of men now leverage their position for maximum pussy extraction now without commitment.

The bad boy has always done this and regardless of even if he lies to women they kinda know what they're getting into.

The good guy doing this --- THAT IS INFURIATING --- which is probably why this group was started. Not the fuck boys. The good guys who are now just rightly remembering that these were the women who passed them over a decade ago and are just having their fun with them now too.

This video, applied, does predict these sorts of things happening.

macone235 · 2023-11-18T17:54:02+00:00

Women don't really screw themselves at all. They spend their 20s chasing after those guys, and the friendzone guy is still waiting there anyways more often than not.

Women have complete control over the situation. I'd say men are the ones that are self-sabotaging, because they give women leverage by rescuing them.

womandatory · 2023-11-18T23:58:59+00:00

So it’s women’s fault men can’t self improve? Gosh.

bluehorserunning · 2023-11-18T18:37:58+00:00

🤦🏻‍♀️

Tell me you do not value women as friends, or even humans, without telling me.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-11-18T18:52:16+00:00

How often does this ever happen? As in, how many women have ever had a friend they didn't like at first but who had a crush on them, who then for some reason became really popular with women, and who they then developed a crush on but for some reason didn't like them any more? That's pretty specific so I'd imagine not many, so there's nothing to sabotage really. (I'm also not sure why or how you'd "nudge" a random friend you're not into to somehow become more attractive to you. You can't just negotiate attraction like that, if you're not into them without muscles you probably won't like them with, and they probably won't listen unless they just so happen to be really into you and also a pushover.)

emzz1 · 2023-11-18T20:32:14+00:00

Women do not screw themselves at all by not taking the guy they’re not attracted to and if that’s the takeaway you got from this… well good luck with your victim mentality. It’s basic reality that most women will not date someone they’re attracted to. So then it’s up to the person friendzoned to put in the investment, put in their own work to self development, and eventually meet someone they’re more compatible with!! Why would you want someone who’s not attracted to you!! Either lower your standards or raise your value without a “nudge,” she’s not responsible for building you into her type, that’s toxic af.

Cyfiefie · 2023-11-18T19:13:25+00:00

I see all of these posts saying women like the wrong men, yet when i look around me i see the dudes in my friendcircle date and or marry girls roughly inhabiting the same hierarchical (social status) position.

I also know girls who have trouble maintaining a single relationship, and guys who don't commit to one girl, but those are the smaller fraction of the general population of men and women. And these women are generally the type to not strive for commitment anyway; due to personality traits and or personal circumstances. I suspect these women are also the highest fraction on dating sites, and surely they are highly selective there when it comes to mate choice due to men being an abundance there. I'm from the Netherlands and am unsure about the US when it comes to general mate choice

DisplacedBitzer · 2023-11-18T14:27:24+00:00

I really wish he didn’t have to name himself hoe_math. It removes his credibility, and most obviously aren’t watching it because of that. However, he is obviously not a normal redpill or blackpill, cel type. It’s like he takes the correct aspects of each pill ideology, and boils it down into a coherent and simple visualization.

The guy is profoundly awesome at explaining dating/relationships. As a guy, I instantly realized how accurately he described our relationship zones. And how he described women’s made so much sense and tracked exactly my experiences.

I bet if you posted just a screenshot of the zones, no context, most would agree. Because at the end of the day, it makes sense and completely aligns with most guys experience without the toxicity sometimes associated with pills.

People, give this guy a try. Ignore the name/mild tism associated and actually listen with an open mind. He’s not a toxic rp/bp, and his ideology is the most accurate I’ve ever seen.

IronDBZ · 2023-11-18T13:27:47+00:00

I swear Hoe Math is so scary. That guys is gonna catch on like wildfire.

For the sake of all of us. I hope his face is weird. It'll cap his popularity

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thedarkracer · 2023-11-18T13:12:21+00:00

Even if we agree, (I have seen a lot of analogies like this, especially RP and Tate), do all women do that or how much is the percentage? I don't have a very small sample size when it comes to women but the ones I know aren't actually doing that (the ones I know throughly).

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2023-11-18T14:25:53+00:00

Sounds merry, but here’s the inherent risk to being a ride or die:

https://youtu.be/MJEAGd1bQuc?feature=shared

k0unitX · 2023-11-18T14:51:48+00:00

Well, you got it half right, but it's not "self-sabotaging". They know the tatted-up dark-triad guy is "no good for them"; they do it anyway because he's hot and exciting and Melvin from accounting is boring and predictable, albeit if stable and reliable.

Western women don't need stability and reliability from their partners anymore, they have their own careers/homes/lives, they want something that's hot. 50 Shades sells for a reason.

Finding_Myway · 2023-11-18T15:51:45+00:00

I've never seen this video before but it was a really interesting watch, thank you for sharing. It is a pity others are so quick to judge based on the channel name alone before giving it a fair shot.

ReditGuyToo · 2023-11-19T04:35:16+00:00

Watch it before you actually post.

Just FYI: that video was really rough. I think I got the idea after 5 minutes and he just went on and on. I don't normally have ADHD but I might have it after that video.

Not saying it's a bad video. Just kinda weird with the crayon chart and way too long.

Junior_Ad_3086 · 2023-11-19T05:04:08+00:00

friendzoned guys are usually weak beta type of guys with low self-esteem who put women (or a particular woman) on a pedestal. guys who don't value themselves, their time, their effort, their attention. men with no boundaries, men who don't command respect from other men etc.

how are women supposed to change them even if they wanted to? telling them to go to the gym won't magically fix these things and make them attractive. i've seen many friendzoned dudes in school and uni. they do it to themselves and if they can't figure that out, what are the odds of them being a good, strong partner?

Title	The relationship zones video explains why women are self-sabotaging
Author	AFuzzyMuffin
Upvotes	16
Comments	496
Date	November 18, 2023 12:48 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/17y5shs/the_relationship_zones_video_explains_why_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-relationship-zones-video-explains-why-women.1238764 https://theredarchive.com/post/1238764

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