It's unfair and depressing watching a 40 year old perfectly healthy woman leave the country while im 18 and male and because im male im forced to stay behind and die - my ukraine friend

mensmod · 2022-03-02T22:56:37+00:00

Just to be clear:

There is concern about Russian propaganda. This is in no way supportive of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. This is a legitimate men's rights issue as this is a very clear way in which men and women are treated differently in society.

Contrasting views:

Traditionalism is okay with this because it is the traditional view that reinforces gender stereotypes and gender roles.

Most of Feminism is okay with this because women are not being forced to risk their lives.

It is hypocritical of anyone to say that gender roles are bad, but then support this gender role or claim that women are the worst harmed in war.

splashyDIAMOND · 2022-03-02T19:59:45+00:00

The feminism sub says "This is a war brought about by elite men, and the consequences fall disproportionately on women, children and other vulnerable populations."

What the fuck? What about normal men living their normal lives?

Vanriel · 2022-03-02T17:53:30+00:00

The problem I have is when you try and point out the issue, you either get a "woman hater! You want women to die!?" Bullshit stuff.

Or you get the "don't you think that there's more important stuff to worry about now?"

laksh2504 · 2022-03-02T16:31:17+00:00

People are still gonna write articles about "how women suffered the most in this war".

vic_vega_is_fake · 2022-03-02T17:31:27+00:00

The world views Men as disposable.

I see the spin already starting in the legacy media about how this is affecting Women. And the dopey instagram women posing with airsoft guns saying they are "staying and fighting"

Men killed in war, Women hardest hit. Different war, same headline.

majestic_tapir · 2022-03-02T17:18:42+00:00

Take a look at the feminism sub. They've started posting about how women are the real victims of war again. And apparently now is the time to talk about "patriarchal language", because saying that Zelensky has balls of steel to stay himself and fight is a terribly gendered thing to do.

Also posting images that Putin wants banned from the internet (Putin with boobs, Putin as a homosexual) is sexist. Not that it's being done to hurt and humiliate a homophobe/sexist, but that the act of actually posting these things is in itself homophobic/sexist.

Honestly, they'll throw around the word "privileged" a lot, but how fucking privileged do you have to be to suggest that when men are being conscripted and sent to their deaths to defend their country, that the women and children are the most affected. The fucking ego on some of these people.

Link to the dumbest thread i've seen so far:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/comments/t4uk3f/patriarchal_language_used_to_describe_the_russian/

BluedHaze · 2022-03-02T16:37:48+00:00

Had some triggered femenazis on Twitter after me for daring to say that conscription was making men second class citizens. They said "If you're not willing to fight for the country, you should not be a citizen". Lol, the irony of women.

onemoodybitch · 2022-03-02T21:34:34+00:00

I'm a woman.

And I agree with you.

It's not fair. No one should be forced to fight in a war where they will most likely die. I'm so sorry for what is happening to your friend, and I hope he will survive.

But please, don't think that every woman is okay with this. I admire Zelensky for staying at Kyiv and keep fighting, but this is one of the decisions he made that doesn't sit right with me.

I can understand his point of view, but rules should apply to everyone or no one.

And whoever thinks that someone under the age of 21 should go to war without proper training is an idiot, and is willingly condemning him (or her) to die.

Final_Collection_515 · 2022-03-02T17:19:49+00:00

I hate the whole “women and children first thing” like yes I get it but at the same time, men arent just as valuable as women and children????

Jishuah · 2022-03-02T19:51:03+00:00

Being forced to fight sounds dangerous as you will now have a force of unmotivated fighters. Give the men the option to stay and fight.

Kindly-Town · 2022-03-02T16:05:34+00:00

On positive side, it shows how feminism lies about gender roles and masculinity. When it comes to survival, everyone goes back to their natural respective gender roles what men and and women are good at. This is the thing Ukraine people should keep this in their mind when they will rebuild their country because UN and EU will be hellbent on gender equality as soon as the war is over.

Feminism exists in the safest countries in the world and only demands 50/50 in air conditioned workplaces.

pargofan · 2022-03-02T18:19:14+00:00

For as great of a leader as Zelensky is, he's sexist.

Or at least most of Ukraine, whether male or female, is sexist and ok with this.

Geven1779 · 2022-03-02T16:01:22+00:00

I agree, it’s absolutely disgusting that they would allow barely adults to fight. It’s disgusting how they view men.

iamjesus1991 · 2022-03-02T16:25:03+00:00

I'd love the UK to try and pull this shit (I wouldn't love it really, of course). I'd just identify as female the day my card gets posted through the door.

IllustriousPiano7300 · 2022-03-03T03:54:02+00:00

Its amazing to me how people just gloss over this. Like Im watching the news and they zoom in on the mother and child leaving on the train, completely ignoring the father staying behind against his own will.

Its incredible because people just accept this status quo, but these same people are progessive in other areas - like women or lgbt rights. It tells me they aren't progressive themselves, they are only regurgitating what they are fed.

Melkor7410 · 2022-03-02T16:22:32+00:00

First, I think all able bodied men should stay and defend their country. Second, I think all able bodied women should stay and defend their country. It should instead read, all able bodied adults must stay, 18 to 60. Exception is if your family has children, one adult may leave with the children (there's really no reason for the children to stay, and children should not be orphaned if possible). There are plenty of women in Ukraine willing to fight. I read about the resistance in France during WW2, there were a lot of french women in the resistance against the Germans, and they were quite successful.

IamBex999 · 2022-03-02T21:43:25+00:00

It's revolting. The people do not choose war, their leaders do. I hope your friend is safe. 😔

coolboy_24278 · 2022-03-02T17:24:15+00:00

i see the Ukranina president being praised all over social media and people are overlooking his decision to keep all males 18-60

BuzzOff2011 · 2022-03-02T16:33:08+00:00

Feminists wonder why there might be a pay gap

ExMuzzy · 2022-03-02T18:40:44+00:00

I’ve always hated how men forced into war are described as just another dead soldier. Majority are not career soldiers. They are dead civilians who were forced into war. If you read up on the First World War those men did not want to be in the trenches but would be shot by guards for trying to escape.

I couldn’t sympathise with those women were complaining about being drafted into doing everyday jobs that their husbands used to do.

bennybeckler · 2022-03-02T18:29:17+00:00

They are not on your side

aggdst966 · 2022-03-04T11:38:54+00:00

It's the ultimate redpill. A decent part of the population (almost 40%) is forbidden from leaving the country, which puts them in direct danger. In the media, complete silence. You only see pretty photos of refugees, you don't see the men who died because they couldn't leave. Imagine the outrage if this was gender-neutral (all adults 18-60). Zelensky would then be an evil human rights violator according to the media. I'm not saying he isn't, because he is also partially responsible for those deaths. Putin attacked and Zelensky directly prevented people from leaving. I'm also absolutely not saying Zelensky is as evil as Putin. Putin not only drafted a lot of his soldiers into his attacking army, but also fooled them to participate in the attack (soldiers did not know they were going to Ukraine). This is one of those things that reveal how little are men's lives valued. Heroic Ukrainian soldiers, once the war ends will suddenly become evil men who could rape anyone in the streets. By the way, you'd love to see the mental gymnastics of the "libertarians" on r/"Libertarian" that support this.

skcuf2 · 2022-03-02T17:19:16+00:00

They don't have to die. They can just become horribly mentally scarred.

Rol9x · 2022-03-02T18:58:58+00:00

Indeed it is. No politician should make any life and death decision without actually asking the people. I know all the sympathy goes to Ukraine now, but this was the worst moment possible to start a war. You can call Putin a crazy maniac dictator but what was the Ukrainian president doing forcing people to go to war with one of the biggest military forcs in the world? Did he actually think that Putin will back off just because nato was at his door, without even dreaming that no country in NATO would really like to go to war? FFS, the prices went up like crazy in a year. What would be the motivation for the western world to get themselves in a war?

War is bad, war is violent, war is bloody. A lot worse than it is in Call of Duty. Before sending men to die in a pointless war, politicians in Ukraine should have thought what the outcome would be. They should have sleep in a meeting room for months just to convince Putin to stay the fuck away from their country. Because no matter how many sanctions the world will impose on Russia, they will not bring back all the men's lives lost in a useless war.

seizethedayshellymae · 2022-03-02T23:09:32+00:00

What’s even more messed up is that Russia started this war, unprovoked. This is all on Putin.

omegaphallic · 2022-03-03T21:22:25+00:00

Conscription is slavery.

MoonShimmer1618 · 2022-03-02T21:40:38+00:00

Damn. Yeah. I really feel for all the younger guys especially being forced into this. War has no winners

needalife94 · 2022-03-03T03:53:29+00:00

I think it should be - 18 to 60 - No kids - male AND FEMALES

Not just males who are forced to war. No one who has their father in their life wants to not have them there with them. Just think how bad these kids will feel when they find out daddy was kill in action. :/ Of course the feminist are staying quiet on this. But then when it hits mainstream that some women have stayed behind , they will make it seem like a win for feminism when the issue is still there for men. WOMEN CAN CHOOSE TO STAY BEHIND AND FIGHT , WHERE AS MEN ARE FORCED TO !!

Maffioze · 2022-03-04T06:48:25+00:00

Yup, yesterday I saw an article in my local news website (I'm from Belgium) saying; "families torn apart as women and children have to leave their men behind".

Now that's not that terrible of a headline, but the subtle focus seems to again be on how this is hurtfull for women and children while the men don't matter that much while they are the ones at risk of dying and/or severe trauma.

timmah1991 · 2022-03-02T21:32:53+00:00

No feminists in a house fire.

gerrta_hard · 2022-03-03T01:06:30+00:00

None of the women who are kept safe by those men dying will remember.

Serve nobody but yourself.

According-Sock-9641 · 2022-03-02T22:17:40+00:00

Horrific situation! I think it is very unfair as well.

legend0102 · 2022-03-02T23:16:29+00:00

Someone made a post about this in a university group and was utterly humiliated and personally attacked. Feminism is like a plague

drickaIPAiEPA · 2022-03-02T23:43:23+00:00

Men and women should all defend their country. The elderly can take care of the children.

rosewiththornzzz · 2022-03-03T03:28:00+00:00

I agree with you completely. The order should have been all those physically and socially able, provided they are not caregivers or single parents, should be conscripted. Men and women alike. I have seen too many videos of single fathers being forced to just hand their children over to random women. Like what the actual fuck. During this time you want to separate children from who may be their only parent? It’s deplorable and downright disgusting.

throwaway1x101 · 2022-03-03T04:00:39+00:00

Where are all the feminist who said equality?

AdamChap · 2022-03-02T22:33:31+00:00

Holy shit there's a lot of toxic outside opinion coming into this thread and it smells like pickme men.

phoenix335 · 2022-03-03T11:56:48+00:00

Notice how people are divided into hard gender categories all of a sudden.

MundaneReplacement9 · 2022-03-03T15:01:45+00:00

So I understand where he is coming from qorh the order. But there are ALOT of women that stayed behind unordered. Not trying to argue just kinda showing another view stand point.

omegaphallic · 2022-03-03T21:19:27+00:00

I hope your friend survives, this is not just.

HulkPower · 2022-03-04T10:22:26+00:00

As always men suffer while women complain from a safe place.

Different_Yam_9045 · 2022-03-04T11:42:55+00:00

The thing is after the war, these men wouldn't even be given some respect. Im still seeing more women empowerment cause of participation of women soldiers and how they had to leave their families behind rather than praising men who are dying to protect except zelenskyy, ghost of kyiv and 13 snake island soldiers ofc. I support women empowerment but i hate how after the war no one will remember the sacrifices.

Zinziberruderalis · 2022-03-05T01:49:22+00:00

Didn't you read the news? Fleeing a war zone to safety is the real trauma!

Inside the Trauma of Ukraine's Women and Child Refugees

Exciting_Win3650 · 2022-03-06T13:55:10+00:00

Yeh this is so messed up. Where have all the feminists gone now?

TheSouthernMusician · 2022-03-06T17:22:11+00:00

BULLSHIT! why women get to leave for their family but men are staying!. Men Have Families Too!

BirdMington · 2022-03-08T08:39:16+00:00

Okay, I'll got to war and risk my life. I'll get PTSD for killing people I don't want to kill and watch others get mutilated and die. I'll obey any commands I'm given.

But in the unlikely event I get home in more or less one piece I expect all women who stayed home to just STFU about inequality and victim culture for the rest of my life.

Don't want to hear it anymore. Don't want to hear feminists barking about quotas and income inequality. Don't want to celebrate corporate-driven BS holidays. Don't even want to hear women moaning about the hardships of household chores using dishwashers, washer&dryers and robot vacuums.

If women want true equality they just have to get equal representation in wars. Not in bunkers and headqurters, right on the front lines getting shot at, shelled, bombed, torn apart, mutilated, suffering, crying, killed and left to rot on the battlefield.

This is all male privilege now.

Time for feminists to woman up and do their part. Grab a rifle and march along with the rest of us doomed men!

CryingMadGirl · 2022-03-02T17:28:29+00:00

I thought that he was a nice person… but he seems to be sexist as fuck

imextremelymoderate · 2022-03-03T04:33:38+00:00

Misandrist Zelensky can go to hell for sending men to death simply for being born male

hatefulreason · 2022-03-03T05:31:34+00:00

Zelensky is an idiot, anyone who is angry with him can just pick up the gear and then go give it to the russians, maybe even get free lodging at a hotel in crimeea until the war stops. The ukrainian government is paying 50.000$ to russian soldiers who lay down their arms but what incentive do most ukrainians have to fight ? unless you have a big mansion and expensive car and a few businesses there's no point, you're fighting to protect the rich people's property.

TerrysChocoOrange · 2022-03-02T18:41:56+00:00

You’re surprised a sexist homophobic country has this attitude?

alexmijowastaken · 2022-03-02T19:59:33+00:00

Yeah people should be talking about this more IMO

Definitely makes me like Zelensky much less

ostrieto17 · 2022-03-02T23:15:14+00:00

Martial law is and has always been directed at men, I'm all for defending your country and I understand the importance of it but make it so that both men and women fall under that law, war is not only soldiers it's doctors cooks logistics communication etc etc

Dontbotherme-9162 · 2022-03-03T02:20:40+00:00

This is bullshit. I feel like men should be treated better and with genuine respect. Like seriously. Feminism and women being taught that they can get whatever they want (bullshit in my opinion) is destroying humanity.

Fact_Trumps_Feeling · 2022-03-02T21:38:29+00:00

“Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat.”

-Hillary Rodham Clinton

gonnaenditthx197 · 2022-03-02T19:27:57+00:00

[permanently deleted]

syro23 · 2022-03-02T20:30:46+00:00

Zelensky didn't order men to stay behind and die. He ordered them to fight and protect their country and home. I think women should stay behind as well. Them fleeing just shows that they are in fact the weaker sex.

blaizken_420 · 2022-03-03T04:32:48+00:00

I only care about the safety of the civilians and the defending soldiers composed of them. The politicians on both ends of this coin are evil.

numairouno · 2022-03-03T12:18:39+00:00

It’s absolute bull. I saw a sky news correspondent in the Polish border from Ukraine talking about how she’s seeing a mass of refugees, carrying kids on their backs and how it seems to mostly be women, implying women as being superior in child nurturing than men - in the meantime, totally ignoring the fact that guys are not allowed to leave because they are supposedly disposable.

Why aren’t the feminists as vocal about this as they are about a gender pay gap which doesn’t even exist.

NullIsUndefined · 2022-03-04T18:56:20+00:00

And probably a lot of these women aren't coming back and are gonna find new mates outside of Ukraine. Many relationships destroyed, if the men even succeed a lot of them will lose their wife and kids in the process.

ShaidarHaran2 · 2022-03-06T00:45:28+00:00

"But women have children"

Are these people saying a woman who chooses not to have children is lower in life value? Because the alternative clearly isn't true, men aren't rocket proof any more than women.

Nor, you know, are we a nomadic tribe of 100 people where losing the women might destroy the population, not a consideration by far here.

claire_lovely · 2022-03-06T09:20:34+00:00

I think true equality should mean that men shouldn't have to fight in a war to. It's very disappointing that these issues aren't considered more.

Also the focus should be on bringing men out of a war rather than women into the draft through equality.

GebCronusYhwhEl · 2022-03-07T00:49:00+00:00

Welcome to reality, where men are disposable even though we build cities -

IndiranFion · 2022-03-09T23:32:58+00:00

If men have to fight, women should be forced to fight, too. I understand old people and children leaving the country. Maybe families, too. Maybe only childless people should fight, idk. But it should be equal. It's disgusting what is currently happening to civilian men in Ukraine.

Throoooowaw2y · 2022-03-10T17:34:45+00:00

It's funny how alot of people now are like "woman birth 1 kid, man give seed to 100"

THIS ARGUMENT IS FUCKING STUPID. Women are not more valuable than men. The ability to give birth doesn’t entitle you safety over men.

freerossulbrich · 2022-03-11T11:43:08+00:00

I think if men has to fight they got to get something else in return. Things like can vote? Or good pay

Mindlessshelf · 2022-03-11T16:45:18+00:00

Feminism isn't about gender equality. I am all for gender equality. It is so ingrained in their narrative you can't even talk about it. I've been shut down repeatedly for highlighting the double standards. I was told I'm anti feminist for talking about the male perspective.. . .

tenchineuro · 2022-03-02T15:57:34+00:00

Lost alot of respect when i found out Zelensky who ordered all males 18-60 to stay behind and die. what the fuck

That is indeed terrible.

But this war has more media exposure than any yet and the world is seeing much of it in real time. The Ukrainians are kicking ass. I don't know if they can win, but they are putting up a hell of a fight.

Best of luck to all of you.

ImplodedPotatoSalad · 2022-03-02T16:11:07+00:00

He does what he has to do to keep the country from being overrun. Shame that most women are worthless and just gtfo instead of doing their part. Should loose all citizenship rights for such betrayal, tbh.

Britavit · 2022-03-02T20:20:25+00:00

There are no feminists on the Titanic.

In our societies of 'equality' it seems (as usual) that feminism only strives for equality that benefits women, and not what actual equality in its starkest form truly is, to sacrifice your life on the front line in warfare.

Fantastic_Orchid3037 · 2022-03-02T23:45:19+00:00

Desperate times call for desperate measures

girlbunny · 2022-03-03T01:08:30+00:00

I see it as a rights issue for both sides. Not only for the men who have to stay, which is obvious. Why should women who want to fight have to leave, and why should men who may not be fit to fight have to stay?

It’s actually insulting to women. They’re saying that the women are SO incapable of helping themselves that they have to be shuffled off to safety while young (and some potentially disabled) men look after them. It’s also not right for man who are incapable of fighting for various reasons.

If the rule was all adults to stay, excluding those with physically limiting conditions, then it would make more sense.

Gothrenapp · 2022-03-03T09:21:52+00:00

Wow, this comment section reeks of raging sexism. Men don't deserve to die while women are protected just for being women.

Bootybandit6989 · 2022-03-02T16:47:43+00:00

I beleive Ukraine is still pretty much gendered roled and havent been sucjed into the whole "Woke cuktutre" Crap"

potluck88 · 2022-03-02T19:54:10+00:00

Equal rights equal fights. Hand her a gun.

Jakeonix11 · 2022-03-03T07:39:32+00:00

Yeah, I understand the frustration. They are still following the old way. IMO it should be both genders who will fight except the disabled and pregnant. Women can do the support,logistics and medical role. Men do the hard stuff. Like the way of the old Soviet Union.but right now I guess this is more on politics. Anyway stay safe my friend. Use tactics and try to avoid firefight as possible.

irharrier2 · 2022-03-02T20:23:37+00:00

They would bar both from leaving. However, one needs to take care of the children and they choose the women to do so.

CatOnShip · 2022-03-02T22:22:15+00:00

Please, try to live through this. I hope you'll be okay.

AdamChap · 2022-03-02T22:22:45+00:00

Didn't Ukraine have a trained military and didn't they have female soldiers being paid through state money? According to Wiki Ukraine has about 15% of its force female.

Is it that female roles in the military are just virtue signals that when Putin calls out, the bluff becomes nullified?

Aran82 · 2022-03-02T22:31:56+00:00

I’m even more confused why he wants to preserve Ukranian sovereignty in the EU. They will find out how the woke west hates men - their noble moral courage will be dismissed as toxic

Jankensolvesall5512 · 2022-03-02T23:01:13+00:00

This is interesting to me simply because if you’re able-bodied and proud, why wouldn’t you? I do not understand the terrifying nature of looking death head on myself but I’ve faced death in many other forms.

I do think personally that it should’ve been optional, or atleast taken a general census on the matter. Even a much more constricted age range would be better.

The aged older millennial Toxic masculinity programming in me wants to know why people wouldn’t fight. The comfortable prepared to be married again American in me questions who from our country actually would fight.

It’s a tough question because I would never fight if it was for money for the rich, but based on pride and gain I might.

Edit: I got banned from r/offmychest for this comment. Never been to that sub never posted here before. Wowee.

Iceman_Hottie · 2022-03-03T07:24:38+00:00

To the edit (not really criticism but a couple of things to point out): the term civilian allready covers children and makes child soldiers distinct. Trying to add more terms to it just muddies the water allowing feminists and the like to push their agenda. If you point a gun at a soldier you are not a civilian, regardless of everything else.

A bit of a rant I need to get out of my system:

In terms of the propaganda on both sides my advice: take a look at what Ukraine's government is trying to do in terms of immediate admission to the EU (up until now Ukraine was not admitted because it will be an economic negative for the EU).

In my opinion both sides of the conflict are not the good guys for different reasons.

k3ndriccLamar420 · 2022-03-06T17:22:49+00:00

Zelensky is equally dangerous to putin right now, someone stop him before he throws everyone in his shitty conflict.

Sp4ceWolf_ · 2022-03-07T02:44:18+00:00

That's just another tradition that we kept from the past. For example in medieval it made sense bacause a woman wouldn't stand a chance against a man with a sword and an armor.

Today's fights changed a lot, we don't fight with swords anymore but guns. You don't need to be strong to fire a gun, everybody who is an healty adult can do that. Of course sometimes you have to fight up close with a knife or something but usually it's just guns and other long distance weapons.

In my opinion only children, mothers which need to take care of them, old and sick people should be evacuated. Others can defend the country. Why should a healthy woman without a kid be an exception? What makes her more important than a man?

Explorer_Of_Infinity · 2022-03-07T07:50:08+00:00

I'm relatively new here, so I'm quite traumitised by this.

TheRedRang3rr · 2022-03-07T07:51:54+00:00

Yea, everything is about equality nowadays until shit hits the fan.

Insensitive_Troll · 2022-03-07T09:18:05+00:00

Feminists are irrelevant here since feminists weren't the ones to establish this policy. I'd no more expect a woman to call out inequality when they're benefitting from it any more than I expect a man to call out inequality when they're the beneficiaries. It's not human nature to act against your own personal interests.

That said, I do think the women should say something about how the children will be victims for not having their fathers support them while they're growing up. It sounds better than women blaming the govt for making them single mothers or old maids and spinsters.

exprtcn · 2022-03-08T16:18:46+00:00

I see most of the discussion revolving around feminism. But why would that be the answer to this issue? Similarly, why would the onus be on MRAs to fix this? It’s on the government. For instance, the conservative party in the USA is the major roadblock to including women in the draft. I don’t know the exact situation or party in Ukraine that led to this discrepancy, but direct your energy where it will have the most effect.

ch994y · 2022-03-08T20:33:14+00:00

you've been duped by feminism. They'll say both: feminism is for equality of men and women BUT feminism is for women

really... it's for women. there's no amount of women in the boardrooms and running countries and getting their lives saved while men are being diaposed of before they will say "that's enough."

dtyler86 · 2022-03-08T23:04:10+00:00

“ but every day is international men’s day”

-everyone, when I post about international men’s day

grayperson_ · 2022-03-09T00:19:48+00:00

It is not me but if I WERE the leader of Ukraine I would allow any person to leave and stamp their passport in a certain way to make them forever unable to return. Stamp it "citizenship renounced."

Why does he want a reluctant army.

You leave, never come back, we give your house or apartment to an international volunteer who wants to stay in the nation.

UncleMcDucky · 2022-03-09T17:58:19+00:00

Sucks that China won't give a shit about their feminism bullshit after Russia and the US take out each other.

Tak3ANumber · 2022-03-10T15:33:25+00:00

If she's alone, yea she should be forced to stay and fight just the same.

If she's pregnant or caring for a child, she should be let go.

But this is the world we live in today, all male centric behavior has been snuffed out and frowned upon, while female behavior is being praised.

kuntogdi · 2022-03-10T19:25:37+00:00

I'm sorry to hear that my ukranian brother, Loves from Turkey. I hope this war ends asap.

Getdeded · 2022-03-11T14:29:18+00:00

Women will gladly squeeze all the benefits out of society, then happily play the women card and get the first life boats leaving the men to die

Illustrious-Hat3036 · 2022-03-14T19:09:11+00:00

You need to stay and fight brother. I’m sorry for your misfortunes but it is the right thing to do. Much love from Arizona/Kansas born and raised.

Responsible_Bid6281 · 2022-03-03T08:55:12+00:00

Female here...

Can only speak to US stereotypes as that's what I've grown up under.

Men and Women both have crappy historically driven expectations based on their gender.

It's messed up and wrong that guys in the US have to register for the draft at 18. Like thanks government, you're not only asking them to potentially die in some future war, you're asking them to willingly help you identify who they are so its easier to find them later. Nope, not okay.

Its not the only thing men have to deal with, and universe knows guys have been societally shoved in to things like "real men don't cry".

And then you've got the US' fixation on sexualizing pretty much any nude body, so that women are apparently indecent when breastfeeding in public. Then there's women being told they should "smile", "cheer up, it might never happen", etc by random passerbys because women are apparently always supposed to be pleasant to look at.

Lets not forget women have only been allowed to vote in the US for the past 102 years of the country's 246 years of existence. And hey, if you are a Native American woman its only been 98 years you've been able to vote.

Basically, we ALL have some gender stereotypes that need to be broken down and unlearned / discarded.

Sounds good to start with the ones that can lead to death first and work our way through the list...

ahydra447 · 2022-03-03T10:20:56+00:00

Say you have a population of 10million (UA is 44million, but just to make numbers easier). 18-60 males make up maybe 35% of population, so 3.5million. But if you took the top 35% of everyone in terms of combat-suitable people (strong, fit, quick-thinking, etc), you would probably get an overlap of about 80% with the group of 18-60 males. Which means, by selecting only men, you reduced the effectiveness of your army because 20% could be replaced by more combat-effective soldiers. Or alternatively speaking, you're passing up 875000 suitable soldiers simply because of gender and age. Scaled up to UA population that's nearly 4 million extra troops.

Of course, children probably ought to come first, so a good chunk of those 4 million should be taking care of children rather than drafted. But it would still likely be a 6-figure number of extra troops available.

Even ignoring combat roles, there's many other roles available - comms, logistics, support, engineering, manufacturing... If I was wanting to stick it to the Russians, I'd recruit everyone I could.

Slava Ukraini. And all praise to those who have stayed behind to fight, young or old, man or woman.

Jgorkisch · 2022-03-03T00:08:53+00:00

Just a drive-by comment in response.

First, I’m sure there are plenty of healthy females staying in Ukraine, no matter the age. Grandmas can absolutely fill molotovs.

Being forced to stay? I don’t think they’re in the position the Russians were in WW2 of “not one step back”, meaning they had people who’s job was to shoot deserters.

Why males 18-60? Given that one of the most popular depictions of manliness and duty (at least in America) is 300 by Zack Snyder, of the Spartans at Thermopylae, I’d say a lot of people would choose that.

Side note: Spartan males could only retire from war at age 60.

throwaway3569387340 · 2022-03-02T19:42:20+00:00

If you have the right to vote then you have the responsibility to fight. Your gender is irrelevant.

ScarfaceTonyMontana · 2022-03-02T20:36:42+00:00

I think Ukraine has a bit of leeway in this decision.

Men 18-60 were not drafted, just not allowed to leave the country. Ukraine really need a large number of people outside of the army to stick in Ukraine to deter the Russians from blowing up the entire place (more than they have). They could have said (like one person said beloe) that at least one person of a family needs to stick behind while the other one goes with the child but let's be honest, most of us would chose to be left behind rather than our partner and thats what a lot of Ukranians chose too in the early days where men could still easily leave the country. Ukraine had to make some really heavy and quick decisions and them going to the old rule of men staying behind was likely a consequence of what I said above combined with not wanting to take up time thinking of a more gender equal solution.

War is terrible and horrifying and one of the things that is lost during it is gender equality. Whether its drafting or men in the family choosing to stay behind willingly, gender equality is one of the things that gets robbed from us when attacked by war mongers.

blrfn231 · 2022-03-02T20:41:38+00:00

Careful. Zelenski didn’t order that.

This order was only issued in the occupied Donbas region by the occupant pro Russian authorities.

This does not touch the country of Ukraine where no such order was given.

Your “Ukrainian” friendly not be as “Ukrainian” as he claims.

nievesdelimon · 2022-03-02T23:29:00+00:00

Maybe men tend to be more useful in combat.

sybban · 2022-03-03T00:19:47+00:00

Run for President in a country, get invaded, show us what you would have done instead. Hope you bolstered gender equality in your country up to this point.

Trant2433 · 2022-03-03T05:05:46+00:00

Didn’t a women crew crash and sink your biggest new warship?

clownworld5550 · 2022-03-06T03:31:50+00:00

If feminists have zero empathy and no problem seeing men die in large numbers, just because they are born male, I can say I have no problem seeing feminists die large numbers.

Double_Minimum · 2022-03-03T00:00:52+00:00

1 man and 100 woman = 100 Children

1 Woman and 100 men = 1 Child.

Obviously its not fair, I won't argue that, but there are reasons for this type of thinking, with the above being one argument.

You also have a limited number of weapons and food, and you want that going to the strongest possible soldiers, which is often men. in these conditions they don't always have the ability to differentiate in more complex ways. Finally, you want to keep families together, otherwise you end up with orphans and no one to take care of them.

xcheshirecatxx · 2022-03-02T16:47:38+00:00

It's shitty and unequal for sure...

But you don't win a war with what most women are able to do

That's a reason for those decisions

Hefffallump · 2022-03-03T02:15:56+00:00

Don't be scared the Americans have your back.

BJP-KMforDecision · 2022-03-04T17:00:11+00:00

Just means more hot Ukrainian women for the rest of us.

Birdman992002 · 2022-03-02T19:00:48+00:00

Tell him to Quit being a pussy and go kill some fucking Russians...nows not the time to feel sorry for himself when ruthless invaders assault his homeland....there comes a time where you have to become a man and this is it for him as his country needs him

ImplodedPotatoSalad · 2022-03-02T16:06:39+00:00

Isn’t there male and female conscription in Ukraine?

AdamChap · 2022-03-02T22:17:53+00:00

Say you are a woman. If they don't let you leave the UN will surely defend a poor trans woman...

nevermock · 2022-03-03T00:14:46+00:00

Then she gets all this protection and benefits from the government that you pay for, even ones that make it harder for you to compete and pay for her benefits.

URMOMis91 · 2022-03-03T06:21:41+00:00

I'm not defending this discrimination, but it's our fault as males, do u know the sperm bank? Yeah you got it... They dont need more males they need more females cuz they have eggs.

TitanicPat · 2022-03-09T10:12:17+00:00

Maybe you could sell the draft to feminists with a little reframing?

Roll up, Roll up! Free victim points for women dying in wars waged by male leaders! Get 'em while they're hot! Complain about something less than 30 years old! Unique Opportunity!

Etc. etc.

Chemical_Glass_424 · 2022-03-03T08:56:09+00:00

I think its pretty simple honestly, 100 men and 1 woman will give you 1 baby. 100 woman and 1 man will give you 100 babies. If Ukraine gets overrun they want another chance to fight again someday. Sending all your women to the frontlines guarantees you’ll get wiped out permanently.

BigZwigs · 2022-03-02T20:33:47+00:00

You should fight tbh. Its not right its not fair but its your duty. Women get the pass for a miltitude of reasons. Feminisum disapears when it really gets down to it. Could you imagine if they barred women from that age range from leaving? Im sure there are some bad ass chicks serving tho.

morebeansplease · 2022-03-03T04:09:01+00:00

Why do men enforce this on other men?

Hot_Employ68 · 2022-03-05T04:35:40+00:00

wtf....is that your concern? are you aware of what's going on?

ThisNameWillBeBetter · 2022-03-03T01:00:22+00:00

It's a terrible situation but also a straw man. I am willing to bet that many men 18-60 will not die.

NoctotainRose · 2022-03-02T20:11:00+00:00

Yes single young men perfectly able to fight should matter more then older women with families and children. THIS shit is why you guys only ever get laughed at like Holy Fuck. This movement has not gone anywhere in decades and it is going to stay Nowhere because of Garbage takes like ^that.

Yaboitilo · 2022-03-02T20:11:00+00:00

Listen nobody wants to fight in a war but if my country was being invaded by another country you bet your ass I’d be grabbing one of those government issued rifles, joining the cocktail making mobs, and doing anything I can to resist the enemy. Power and strength to you.

Waleni · 2022-03-03T08:14:35+00:00

There’s a reason if men have been doing the fighting since the dawn of time.

Let’s be honest most men are better suited to fight than women. We’ll probably never get to see a full women regiment do an invasion or defend a position on their own.

Children, elders and women have always been the ones to be protected because they’re the weakest of the population. No matter what feminist say we’re not equal.

chakan2 · 2022-03-03T13:40:06+00:00

I'll dissent with the opinions here. This is WAR. This is a man's job. We are bigger and faster, and this is what evolution built us for.

As an aside, there are plenty of women staying behind in Ukraine to help build bombs, camo, and support the troops.

However, I'm never going to fault someone for running from a warzone regardless of sex or gender.

It's time to set aside the petty battles over who's more destitute. We're men, we are better than that.

Men and women are not equals, but we should be valued equally for our strengths.

digernicnucingfigers · 2022-03-02T23:00:34+00:00

men are sent to war instead of women because:

1.men are more suited to war(stronger, taller, not hysterical, logical) 2.one man can have in the 1000s of children while a woman can have at most 20 children.It makes logical sense for a country to send men instead of women, to secure its future. 3.more people are requiered to maintain the homefront compared to the warfront.The goverment already has a good way to sort out the people who would be worse fighters, they just look at gender.the weaker people are sent to work in factories to produce arms and ammo, and the strong are sent to defend the weak.

redhedstepkid · 2022-03-03T01:01:25+00:00

Hey guys! Female here, and I disagree with this, as will most of my female friends, family,etc, aside from the very Christian ones who agree with this type of draft. What I do notice a lot of here, is the want or the inclination to blame this on women. Just be mindful that women don’t have as much power/voice when it comes to policy changes, figureheads, military leaders,etc. I know most of you will gag at just the word, and I often do too, but this is literally a product of the patriarchy. The men who wrote these laws didn’t write them with “men are worth less” in mind, they wrote it with “women can’t fight” “women should be home birthing and taking care of kids”. No one wants a draft, except the presidents and lawmakers who don’t wanna go themselves.

Jochem-dontknow · 2022-03-02T18:28:46+00:00

Like it sucks but able men always go last. As men we need to accept this. If our country calls and we don't show up they'll take our women and children in our place. Let's let's be the vanguard and the rear guard

Trosso · 2022-03-02T20:24:56+00:00

You’re a man. Deal with it instead of whinging about it on Reddit

Ryssaroori · 2022-03-03T17:39:53+00:00

Am I the only one here who thinks different of this subject? I'm from Finland and I've grown up my whole young adult life - including the 9 months I was in the army - thinking that war is no place for women.

Now I'm not necessarily saying that mentally or physically they're not as fit as men, what I mean is that if someone were to come here and attack us, there's a great long track record of certain surrounding nations being a bit rapey when they go to war. I don't want that for the women in my life, who would have to face that reality IF we were to send them to war.

But that's just my hot take. Conscription is necessary to my country as we have a huge long border with some, let's say unpredictable countries. And women don't belong on the battlefield against them, so it is only natural that conscription should only consider men.

I do wish women were trained for what their war time role in society would be. We have universla responsibility to defend Finland, both men and women. Some fortunate souls would be able to escape it, of course, but for some either their civilian jobs or skills would require them to stay, nurses, cooks, bus/tram/train drivers for example. It is a shame that most men know what to expect, but women are kept in the darkness.

Feisty-Effort373 · 2022-03-11T12:15:36+00:00

Been that way since the dawn of time, be a man, fight for you women and children, don't assume you're going to die, you're already a hero to those people. Keep your wits and never give up and you'll be the best dad/grandad in the world. There comes a time where we must shed our morals in order to save them

pbraz34 · 2022-03-12T03:18:32+00:00

You stay and fight for that. Slava Ukraine.

lancexduncan · 2022-03-12T08:50:59+00:00

To bad men made those rules.

mochews · 2022-03-12T14:41:58+00:00

wait tell me y’all realize it is men that enforce these traditional gender stereotypes that have followed us throughout history to this modern day… i mean scroll down two posts on this sub and you see men complaining about how women are emotional and need to be babied… that is exactly why there are not gender neutral drafts ro this day. Stop blaming women and actively try and change your mindsets and inherent biases instead of complaining that women aren’t being as effected as men. It’s weird. You can’t have ur cake and eat it babes

daylight_stalker · 2022-03-14T02:54:10+00:00

U wanna know something too is I bet you one of the reasons why the Ukraine governor wants men to stay and women to flee because they view men as stronger and women weaker because if women stayed and fight they would most likely lose..

So with that being said shouldn't the feminist be angry that the Ukraine governor thinks women are weak? I really wanna ask that question in the feminist group but I already been banned.. I guess they don't take opposing views to kindly

JP50515 · 2022-03-03T07:00:16+00:00

I'll probably take flak for this, but think about it...this answer dates back to ancient civilizations. How many women could you theoretically impregnate if there was a population crisis caused by war?. The answer is a fuckton.

This is not the same when it comes to women. There's a limit to how many babies can be popped out, and if your women are wiped out, your nation, your tribe...etc is done.

2 rams can impregnate 100+ ewes...for perspective.

Based on this fact alone, socially, men are more expendable than women. Men are also way more physically equipped to fight and mentally equipped to handle the battlefield. I don't give a shit what woke left wing activists claim... Are there women who can handle the military? Absolutely... Tons of them... But on average a typical man is genetically better equipped for war than a typical woman.

He didn't tell his men to stay back to "die". They stay back to fight. This is a fucking war dude...it's what men do in war...they fight to save their families and country. It's been this way since the beginning of time, get used to it cuz it's not going to change.

I am a man myself and personally I think your viewpoint is unpatriotic and fails to recognize the realities of war and of human nature. If the men don't fight... there's a high probability that everybody dies. Plain and simple. It's been this way through all of history.

I don't even feel this should be in the men's rights sub honestly... it's just complaining.

fedarmy · 2022-03-02T16:17:44+00:00

Eh guy while I’m as pro mens rights as it gets this isn’t feminism. Suck it up and defend your country.

stanarkoo · 2022-03-03T09:45:45+00:00

somebody gotta stay and fight bro

xscott71x · 2022-03-02T17:24:08+00:00

I mean, if you can't be bothered to stay and fight for your own country against the goddam Russians, how can any Ukrainian citizen expect the world to risk their own Soldiers?

Net_Flux3 · 2022-03-02T18:15:33+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Died-Last-Night · 2022-03-02T21:35:23+00:00

Stumbled in from r/all. There are a lot of whiney dudes in here. No wonder this sub is shit on constantly.

A_Few_Mooses · 2022-03-02T22:20:31+00:00

It's depressing that an able bodied 18 year old male would rather cower and flee, saving his own ass while letting his countrymen die.

sgtadamcl · 2022-03-02T18:10:23+00:00

Thr president is fool. He will losse the war probably and forcing civilians to fight is insane.

soliz_love · 2022-03-02T21:23:08+00:00

Your friend is compeletely right OP, but this is a really bad take. Zelensky said this because himself is not a feminist and doesn't believe that women are equal to men, if the Ukrainian government was feminist then 100% they would have ordered all 18-60 people to stay behind and die.

I could argue back that in Urban warfare sitiuations Women get raped a lot in comparison to men, but that would be just as wrong as OP's take.

In war, HUMANS die and HUMANS get raped so WAR should be the enemy but if war comes at your door, we should let our weak people out first.

A MRA would both define "the weak" as old/disabled/unhealthy people, a feminist would do the same but a conversative would not. That is the enemy.

soliz_love · 2022-03-02T21:23:29+00:00

Your friend is compeletely right OP, but this is a really bad take. Zelensky said this because himself is not a feminist and doesn't believe that women are equal to men, if the Ukrainian government was feminist then 100% they would have ordered all 18-60 people to stay behind and die.

I could argue back that in Urban warfare sitiuations Women get raped a lot in comparison to men, but that would be just as wrong as OP's take.

In war, HUMANS die and HUMANS get raped so WAR should be the enemy but if war comes at your door, we should let our weak people out first.

A MRA would both define "the weak" as old/disabled/unhealthy people, a feminist would do the same but a conversative would not. That is the enemy.

Yaboitilo · 2022-03-02T20:03:56+00:00

Men fight wars, it’s always been like that.

lolApexseals · 2022-03-03T03:23:22+00:00

As someone put it.

If Russia stops fighting, there is no war.

If ukrainian stop fighting. There is no Ukraine.

He, and many others, women included, are fighting for the future existence of their nation. It's a sad fact of reality.

froggymcfrogface · 2022-03-03T07:08:04+00:00

*a lot. Two words.

AzzakFeed · 2022-03-04T10:23:26+00:00

I don't think it is an issue per se. The problem is more how little recognition men get from their sacrifice at war. It's even more outrageous when women claim they suffer more from war than men. It's just expected that men die and voila, no fucks given.

Short reason why it's logically OK: women are the only individuals in a society who can reproduce. Men can die by the millions, it doesn't matter in the long run. The surviving men can impregnate as many women as they want. In a few generations the population deficit will be solved. Women who can not have kids are too old to make good soldiers. If 50% of the male population has to be sacrificed in a war to let women survive, then, as horrible as history has shown, so be it.

Advocating women to fight equally, or not conscripting men, put society at risk.

In terms of personal freedom it is of course terrible, but if your country is bombed and at risk of conquest, then what good is your personal freedom when the invaders will take it from you anyway?

So no, I would say it is defendable to force men to stay and fight. But these men should be considered heroes and treated as such.

ImplementNational165 · 2022-03-02T18:42:48+00:00

Idk. Like obviously that's not fair but idk what are you suggesting. Women are biologicaly weaker than men so they can't really fight and if we allow everyone to one away then almost no one will be left to defend your country. But we definitely need to stop with the women get hurt the most in wars bs

soliz_love · 2022-03-02T21:22:58+00:00

Your friend is compeletely right OP, but this is a really bad take. Zelensky said this because himself is not a feminist and doesn't believe that women are equal to men, if the Ukrainian government was feminist then 100% they would have ordered all 18-60 people to stay behind and die.

I could argue back that in Urban warfare sitiuations Women get raped a lot in comparison to men, but that would be just as wrong as OP's take.

In war, HUMANS die and HUMANS get raped so WAR should be the enemy but if war comes at your door, we should let our weak people out first.

A MRA would both define "the weak" as old/disabled/unhealthy people, a feminist would do the same but a conversative would not. That is the enemy.

GreatThodric · 2022-03-02T17:25:31+00:00

Might be an unpopular opinion but, honestly, I don't want conscription for women. I want my women to be safe. Although, I do want conscription for feminists, on the front line. They're the ones advocating for gender equality so they should be forced to face the reality of that notion.

Sadly, that's never going to happen. And even if it did, no man would lay down their lives to protect them let alone trust them with their own lives.

Sidenote: I've heard some US marines complaining about women in their platoon. And it's not because of weaknesses. It's because when shit hits the fan, men have an innate urge to save the women first. And the army can't afford soldiers giving special treatment in combat.

Amazing-Window-346 · 2022-03-02T17:04:46+00:00

This kind of cowardness makes me sick

The men are heros fighting for their families, lives and countries and shit like this makes them out to be "wasting their lives"

Men should want to defend their homes not run away and think other people to save them

Manschooled1928 · 2022-03-02T20:05:31+00:00

Sounds like he wants to be a woman.

XaviRequiem · 2022-03-02T21:10:26+00:00

Women are indeed more valuable than men due to reproductive facts. 9 women and a single man can produce 9 newborns in a year. 9 men and a woman can only do a gangbang and a child in most cases (non twins, etc). Still I think a correct census should be done, determine which woman can be put into fight, like if they are not mothers, or if they are +18 and not in charge of younger siblings, above all prioritize children, sort out women and sort out males too like if in case they are single parents or too old to fight, sick or without limbs and then make decisions.

ohisama · 2022-03-02T19:11:07+00:00

What are the double standards you are referring to?

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