Q4ALL, What is wrong with current dating scene? and why do redpill men believe it's bad for the society?

kaiden08 · 2022-04-05T15:04:37+00:00

Do you have proof men outside of TRP are just pleased as punch with modern dating?

StarchRunner · 2022-04-05T14:01:39+00:00

The logic behind this is the following.

Men are maintaining society with hard jobs but can still envision a future for their effort.
Now women are free and collectively decided to shit on most men in essential jobs but still expecting men to do the work.
Red pill hopes that all these men will stop to do their end of the bidding too and thus it's bad for society.

2022-04-05T15:06:23+00:00

"Only a small minority of men (those subscribing to red pill ideology) are not happy about it, outside of redpill most men are okay with the current dating scene, infact most men are against redpill."

Do you have type of source for this? Anything?

"And why do rp men believe society is declining just because they can't get as much casual sex as an attractive guy?"

Im not "rp man" but I don't think "rp men" have ever claimed the core reason of suggested societal decline is "can't get as much casual sex as an attractive guy."

"It's true that a very, very small percentage of men are not happy with the current dating scene and are checking out but the number is insignificant to have an effect on functioning of society."

The amount of men in workforce has decreased. Women outnumber men in education.

Your measure of societal success seems to be about cool tech stuff that is innovated.

Barely-moral · 2022-04-05T12:47:02+00:00

Disclaimer: I speak only for myself.

I don't think today's dating scene is that bad. I think the trend is horrible.

Society is dependent on men being overproductive. That means producing more than the bare minimum they need to live and be entertained. Most men do produce more than that. And they do it because they believe they have a viable path to happiness and money is an important tool to walk through it.

Remember that most men are lower middle class or poor, will not get satisfaction nor fullfillment in their careers because they will have none. They will work one or two jobs just to pay the bills.

The only viable path to happiness they have is a wife and kids. That turns the meaningless grind into purpose.

If the trend continues and a significant number of men comes to believe they no longer have a viable path to happiness (a wife and kids) they will produce just enough to survive and entertain themselves... and then society goes to shit.

odd_cloud · 2022-04-05T18:10:04+00:00

It seems that a lot of men are excluded from dating. One poster on ppd analysed the numbers from a dating app, and said that bottom 30% of men do not have any interest from women. As for me, it's quite a large number. As for me, if 30% of people are excluded from anything, then it does not seem right.

However I do not believe in that prophecies that society will collapse because of it. Yep, many men will be demotivated in life and we'll lose something, but there is no catastrophe. For example, there are guys on dating advice who write "I'm a well paid engineer and a virgin". May be this engineer will feel demotivated because what is the purpose of earning lots of money without a family, and he'll be working a min wage job instead. Ok, but he's not the last engineer.

dietwindows · 2022-04-05T14:27:57+00:00

》Look at the # of young men not having sex to determine if there's a growing social problem.

》Look at the red pill / blue pull metaphor. Most humans choose to take the delusions of the blue pill because they don't want to see reality, which can be quite ugly to the ego.

If MOST people didn't hate and reject TRP, it wouldn't be TRP. Citing it's unpopularity as meaningful is missing the point by a mile.

Digedag · 2022-04-05T12:30:05+00:00

Nothing to see here - just another post full of strawmen and false/unproven premises.

TheJim66 · 2022-04-05T14:59:14+00:00

Only a small minority of men (those subscribing to red pill ideology) are not happy about it, outside of redpill most men are okay with the current dating scene,

Says who?

Well, here is a study claiming otherwise

All of these can not be possible if a lot of men are actually checking out of society.

The changes we talk about happened within the last decade. You are seriously overestimating how fast social change is.

Modern men have trouble let getting sex in general, not just casual sex, and the quality of their relationships when (if) they do manage to get them is crappy. Sex is the main drive of men and if most men can't get it, they aren't gonna produce and consume nearly as much. Since men are the ones that run and build society, thats obviously not sustainable. Never mind the disastrous effects of the falling birth rate and the civil unrest a lot of single men can cause.

AGORAPHOBIC-ECSTACY · 2022-04-05T12:47:16+00:00

I think most guys are envious of the sexual selection women have and project in bitter ways. They’ll rationalize it as a declining society but society has always been evolving and declining in different parts.

JohnDoe_Rip · 2022-04-05T14:35:05+00:00

This post isn't even in good faith. Idk why guys are engaging.

MrMushySauce · 2022-04-05T16:03:04+00:00

Dunno about others but I dislike:

1) How difficult it is to meet girls who are my match... we don't match on dating apps, like at all. Pretty rarely. I know these girls are 'my match' because they will date me if they meet me irl. I've dated a few. It just makes my dating process take way longer than it needs to, and way longer than it would if there were more natural outlets to meet people. Or if OLD actually matched you up with your equals... instead I get hordes of 5s trying to fuck as my matches, and then people wonder why "men never want commitment!" Bitch, I want commitment, but all I'm getting is scores of smash-and-pass options.

2) How scatter-brained people in general are with dating. Like I can feel the hordes of past dates these girls have been on. I went on a date and had a great connection a couple weeks back. I asked her to hang out again and got a classic "ask me again later I'll be more free!" Like, uhhhh, I know you're free tonight? I can just feel that, to herself, she's thinking "I need more time to think about this before I hop in!" But I'm really looking for someone who knows what they're looking for and hops on it... that's a rarity today. It's always do I really want this option, do I really want to stop weighing my options, is this really the right thing for me, is it? Fuck that mindset. If you click stop looking. If I feel like we clicked and you're not sure what to do about that I am now very cautious about you. Because it shows you're whimsical-in-mind. It shows you can't find what you want and try to lock it down. Or it shows that you spend a disproportionate amount of time inwardly thinking "what appeals to me" rather than "how do I appeal to a partner." I want someone who does both.

CocoBabeNYC · 2022-04-05T12:53:12+00:00

The majority of red pill men are white knights by another name. They grew up having some noble romanticized view of the world, where if they were good boys, who diligently worked on their careers and stayed out trouble would finally be able to get the ultimate price - their pure Princess who would love them forever.

Eventually they discovered the fact that their pure virginal princess is actually a human being who has normal sexual urges and will - gasp - have sex with men. I know, how scandalous.

They these RP men eventually figure out that they wanted in on the action this whole time but they still cling to their white knight mentality which is stopping them from being sexually exciting to women. Deep down they still see themselves as the good boy who stays out of trouble and who should be able to earn his pure Princess, but now they hate this Princess because she ran off with the guy with the motorbike.

In essence RP men have a romanticized view of women that they realize is not realistic but they cling to it. Instead of accepting women as human beings, they cling to treating them as objects, as the prize that they should have been awarded for all their years of being diligent and staying out of trouble.

So in their anger and frustration they see women who are having fun and enjoying sex as hypergamous sluts who are bringing on the collapse of society, while the reality is that it is their carefully crafted white knight fantasy world that is collapsing. They just have to accept it.

gofigure62 · 2022-04-05T13:52:41+00:00

Imo a significant amount of these "dating coaches" male and female are just mentally ill.

THERE IS a social crisis of loneliness and isolation that is growing globally. And it isn't just in relation to romantic relationships, it's with human socialization and community as a whole, which includes platonic dynamics.

Small minded people focus on relationships and sex because it USED to be the low hanging fruit that was easy to achieve out of necessity. Women needed men in order to survive economically and men needed women to survive psychologically.

But despite the necessity that was required for romantic relationships, the aspects of community were never a concern because it was always available. People had neighbors and friends that would check on them regularly and assist with the distribution of labor and other life obligations. For example family and friends would assist with food supply by bringing extra from their gardens or excess food in general. Friends and neighbors would do favors of mending clothes, gifting excess of unused appliances, or help with chores and family care.

ALL human societies used to have a communal dynamic where support was needed and maintained outside of a romantic dynamic. The burden of men and women was reduced, because whatever they lacked was supported by their attachments to others within the community. As the human species is supposed to function and has functioned for thousands of years.

Today, with the higher costs of living and the increased competitiveness required to survive, men and women have less time and resources to build significant bonds within their communities. People don't have the luxury of time and resources to invest, so people are more likely to spend their freetime and excess resources on themselves. The ability to socialize has been drastically reduced where to the point where people only have enough time and resources for a romantic partner.

However this romantic partner has to be VALUABLE to the person that is taking the risk of their time and resources to invest in them. This is where the issue comes in because there's the undertones of social expectations within relationships SPECIFICALLY heterosexual relationships where cultural norms and social norms haven't progressed to the reality of what it takes to survive today. People have adapted to survival within this current economic society without adapting or changing culturally.

So we're currently in a system where women have to get educated and have careers in order to care for themselves and if they enter into a relationship they'll still have to work, but will also have to maintain a majority of the stereotypical roles within the relationship, such as the emotional/mental labor within the relationship, home management, offspring care, socialization management, etc. While men in the relationship maintain their role of earning half of the home income and and leaving all if not most of the domestic and relationship responsibilities to the woman.

This new dynamic isn't sustainable. The human relationship cultural expectations have to change or our economic system needs to change. Both realities cannot exist, otherwise relationships are heavily broken down or avoided all together because it is ultimately a disproportionate burden on the woman.

Our current social crisis as humans isn't as simple as "man bad", "woman bad", "people lonely and horny!" It's a complex issue filled with nuance. If people aren't willing to address the economics, culture, and ultimate risk/reward associated WITH ALL human relationships, then they're just brain dead idiots trying to capitalize off of the vulnerabilities of lonely, desperate, confused, and angry people.

Many of these people don't want to adapt and don't want to give any empathy, compassion, or patience to other humans who are also struggling and trying their best in this world. The disregard for change and the disregard in the humanity in other people is just further going to isolate us all. This reality is too uncomfortable for most people to deal with, so they'll degrade the conversation to stereotypical and offensive definitions of masculinity and femininity that explains why they've been rejected and isolated from community without taking any responsibility for not being willing to lose their indoctrinations for their own wellbeing or the wellbeing of others.

1962_beta-simp · 2022-04-05T12:23:20+00:00

What does the dating scene have to do with those things?

correlation is not causation?

ruboyuri · 2022-04-05T16:07:04+00:00

I’m pretty sure most men want stuff to be in their favor, like it used to be

DerekMorganexBAU · 2022-04-05T15:12:49+00:00

There’s nothing “wrong” with it if you can get what you want out of it.

Just like there’s nothing “wrong” with capitalism if you’re getting what you want out of it.

Problem is it’s the haves vs the have nots. When you’re broke and struggling to pay rent and can’t afford gas then capitalism is shit.

Same with the current dating market. It’s great until you can’t get what you want. TRP helps men navigate the dating market.

Some men just believed that bitches were cool. They were taught that women were wonderful but they lie cheat steal leave good men for abusive exes that slap them silly, etc. Meet women who hide their hoe phases they hide their kids and even adjusted calibrated women still slept with a rando in a parking lot but won’t ever admit it, etc etc.

It’s a shock for some but TRP says “enjoy the decline” so get everything you can cause that’s what I’m doin

boomershack · 2022-04-05T15:16:13+00:00

When dating first appeared, our ancestors saw it as prostitution. Not wrong tbh.

Mark_Freed · 2022-04-05T15:55:44+00:00

Only a small minority of men

We are legion. Give it some more time... we are inevitable.

a very, very small percentage of men

really citation? even if they don't know the terms. Ask men how many of them are happy with dating as it is now. Go read surveys leave your bubble.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2022-04-05T17:24:57+00:00

And why do rp men believe society is declining just because they can't get as much casual sex as an attractive guy?

you've answered your own question. they think society should change because they aren't successful.

pielok · 2022-04-05T22:24:11+00:00

most men are NOT against redpill, they just haven’t been burnt yet.. after they get cheated on and still they need to pay alimony.. after they had to pay for kids which are not even theirs.. they will become redpill

billsull_02842 · 2022-04-06T02:43:49+00:00

most women are feminists and keep grabbing up all the money thats needed for their date- o- meters.

PeppinoGreen · 2022-04-06T16:14:48+00:00

outside of redpill most men are okay with the current dating scene, infact most men are against redpill.

Are you a woman or a man living in a cave? EVERY FUCKING DUDE I know has complaints about the current state of things. Some can navigate through it, but the consensus is that women are quite awful now.

So why do they repeatedly say society is in decline?

Our society is still living from the past glory. Wait until the declining birthrate make its effect. Japan is literally begging its citizens to have sex.

lulll · 2022-04-05T13:58:30+00:00

a lot of red pill guy have an obsession with apocalypse end times fetishization, that's why a lot of them end up turning to actual religion, they realize at some point thats what they were actually looking for. they get this shit from a couple quotes on the decline of the roman empire and that's about as deep as it goes, lame quotes from a book they never read but sound cool and "manly." red pill gurus like playing this shit up because they know the type of effect this has on people, it makes people listen because a lot of them can't get enough of the doomsday scenarios

jah-roole · 2022-04-05T18:49:02+00:00

Nothing is wrong 😂. 200 years ago you had to own a horse drawn carriage to go anywhere and fuck a bitch you like for like 10 years while writing letters most of that time which took weeks to deliver and she strung you along until you got married while also having 12 fools just like you writing her the same shit the whole time. That’s on the high end of things. On the low end you’d get to bone a toothless leprechaun in your village if you were so lucky to live to an age where you could even do that.

Today you can fly your ass across the world to literally anywhere within a day and put your dick in all sorts of places.

I fail to see a problem with this picture 😂

Need_wine · 2022-04-05T12:59:34+00:00

The majority of the red pill men seem to be under 25, socially awkward, unkept, unattractive or going for women that they believe are in their “league” but are actually above them so they get repeatedly rejected.

The rest of us women and men acknowledge that it’s a shit show out here but with effort you can get the results you want.

Diabetes9111 · 2022-04-05T12:51:25+00:00

It's just an extension of capital in America. Tons of attractive guys are virgins irl and tons of ugly guys get laid. You ain't got ends, you ain't got friends.

activatebarrier · 2022-04-05T12:37:49+00:00

I think red pill is a small minority. I know a lot of my nerdy friends who are LVM. But they're super nice and adjusted individuals who aren't red pill or mygonistic.

mugsvadv · 2022-04-05T12:43:38+00:00

Total fertility rate and single parent households. Having said that, I am a firm believer in personal liberty and choice. If people don't want to have kids or have a serious committed relationship to raise children in a two parent household, it is what it is.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2022-04-05T13:45:29+00:00

it’s dudes that aren’t getting what they want, so its the fault of “the dating scene/society/modern world/technology”. It’s like the dude who is unhappy with his pay who goes “this job sucks, this company sucks, this president sucks! I should get paid as much as that guy over there!”

Hoopy223 · 2022-04-05T16:00:57+00:00

30s USA guy here

Obesity - Outside of specific groups (gyms, runners, mountain climbing clubs) most people are fat or obese. So if you are a normal sized man you are abnormal.

Selfishness/Entitled brat culture - the Me Me Me culture of Facebook, Instagram, Etc. Everyone is beautiful except for Men who are all ugly and boring.

Rampant Materialism - people wanting the latest and greatest whatever. Omigod you still have an Iphone 8 wtf thats so old.

Grass is Greener - fire up Tinder and look for an upgrade!

Political Isolationism - I won’t date a (insert whatever political/social group is or isn’t trendy right now).

I could come up with more but yeah, American “Culture” is a toilet.

sarkington · 2022-04-05T14:13:05+00:00

Red pillers think society is biased against men

Says so right in their manifesto

StarchRunner · 2022-04-06T00:47:51+00:00

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HunterOk3550 · 2022-04-05T14:02:56+00:00

Sorry for asking what are redpill men, is it just another nave we'd started to give frustrated men , a name to make live even more horribel for normal men

Ohmaygahh · 2022-04-05T14:15:34+00:00

It hurts to respond to your post because almost everything is so off base and wrong, the answer to what you're really asking for is outside the realm of your understanding.

infact most men are against redpill.

Most men are broke, overweight, and unsuccessful in life and in their personal development. Do you care what a fat, unhappy, loser man thinks?

Patrickstarho · 2022-04-05T16:05:23+00:00

It’s a mixture of the pandemic and a lot of ppl missing out on college years and being dropped into a world where suddenly interaction with females is less than it was

masterdarthrevan · 2022-04-05T18:39:52+00:00

Technology is taking a lot of our attention, how much time do you actually spend talking/interacting with your SO? that plus hypergamy do you really wonder why men think they are better off alone when a lot of women believe they are better than 80% of men?

LotBuilder · 2022-04-05T19:19:23+00:00

Nothing is wrong, good or bad people are getting what they deserve. All these conservative guys love the free market and personal accountability until it doesn’t go their way. These women think they can dick around for their entire 20’s then panic as they hit 30 and settle with a guy they are not attracted to then treat him like shit. Then they are pissed off at 36 with an autistic kid and a husband they don’t like. As dating strays away from systems that have worked for hundreds of years we get to deal with the consequences

-KiNG-WaVy- · 2022-04-05T20:33:47+00:00

Read the book hard times create strong men by Stefan Aarnio to find out why the current divorce rates and emasculated men are correlating to the current issues we face in the west such as food shortages, inflation and many others. Its all too long for me to explain in a single Reddit comment. If you are interested and want a deeper understanding in this topic, read the book i just recommended and its going change your view of human behaviour and society forever

zeroaegis · 2022-04-05T21:48:22+00:00

I'm against Red pill as a whole, though I do think some of what they "preach" is valid. It's pretty much identical to my thoughts on FDS. People took a decent set of principles and corrupted them inside a toxic echo chamber. I don't think either ideology is particularly healthy overall.

That said, I can't speak outside my own experience. What I see is a growing number of people approaching dating as a business transaction. What can they offer me, how much can I get, how little can I give and still get what I want, etc. There doesn't seem to be much feeling in it anymore and that's a big turn-off to me. Granted I'm fairly recently out of the dating pool so it's not exactly my problem anymore, but I empathize with people (regardless of gender) that are disillusioned with the whole process.

Lateralanouncer · 2022-04-05T22:17:15+00:00

Solo mothers, men and women beimg independent blah blah. Equal a lower decile society. Not out issue. . Go learn about geo political and see what's happening with the woke leaders fucking the west. The West is weak as fuck has not idea what's going on. Head in tjw sand kind of shit.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-04-06T01:31:30+00:00

I think getting solid data on what is actually the case now, including how pervasive and enduring some trends are, is very tough.

So in TRP you get a lot of legitimate hypothesizing about causation for things that may in fact either not be true, or at least be far less prevalent than many think. If these things were true, the hypotheses aren't all that bad. But we really don't know.

But of course, there is plenty of toxic in the manosphere too: anger, bitterness and revenge fantasies that distort thinking and put female posters on the defensive. In response, too many women say silly things, taking extreme positions like whatever happens to the SMP, it doesn't matter so long as it is all about free choice. Or my personal favorite, reducing everything to 'loser men who want to get their dicks wet'.

So yeah, things get ugly. But proper gender balance, including a well-functioning SMP, has always been critical to any healthy civilization. So we should all care. But we also shouldn't be jumping the gun with premature assessments of calls to action.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2022-04-06T02:30:19+00:00

Society declining or collapsing because of promiscuous women is the biggest red pill fantasy of all. The second is that promiscuous or older women won't get married.

Logry · 2022-04-06T07:51:58+00:00

[M / France]
I'm very wary about your assumption.

Only a small minority of men (those subscribing to red pill ideology) are not happy about it

1° -- How do you quantify the satisfaction when it comes to dating ?

2° -- Who are the poeple you're sampling to base your opinion on ? Reddit comments ?

Freevoulous · 2022-04-06T09:15:27+00:00

Society is in decline for completely different reasons, that have more to do with the global economy.

Dating scene is fine and works as intended; its basically a Free Market System.

Dating scene is a continuation of the evolutionary Survival of the Fittest, the fact that the top males dominate the market and crowd-out bottom males is a boon not a flaw: its how species evolve to better fit their changing environment. It is supposed to be brutal, selective, and have no mercy, that is the whole point.

My flair says "All Betas must die" I do not mean it as a joke. Of course, I do not advocate genocide, but I wholeheartedly believe that Alphas and Chads pushing Betas out of the gene pool and out of society is a VERY good thing. It will be transformative, and collapse the artificial and stiffling construction of the Blue Pill culture.

If you think this smells like eugenics... then you are pretty much correct, except it is completely voluntary, harmless, and increases human freedom of choice. We got into this ridiculous mess when we let masses of anonymous, frustrated Beta chumps use soft influence to ensnare our culture and society. They were, and are, the architects of the Blue Pill and of the childish, irresponsible, emasculated humanity we are now.

The only way we can disentangle from this mess, is to allow women to make their own sexual, procreative and relationship choices until the Tyrrany of the Betas collapses on itself.

lout_zoo · 2022-04-06T15:46:21+00:00

If you think working 50 hours a week and having less than a months vacation, all while paying off student debt while housing costs are at an all time high is peak society, I feel sorry for you.
And this situation bleeds over into both relationships and the arts.
I get the feeling you are either part of the "successful" minority or have Stockholm Syndrome.
And I'm not a Red Piller.

17seventy6ed · 2022-04-10T03:44:04+00:00

Nothing lasts for forever.

BusyClassroom8162 · 2022-04-25T17:06:00+00:00

What data do you have to back the claim that most men are happy with the dating scene? For the first time ever in history women, 18-25 are having more sex than men in the same age bracket. Think about that for a bit.

Embarrassed-Tune9038 · 2022-05-02T23:28:20+00:00

Look up the effect of fatherlessness on both genders, then imagine that spreading.

Alex-Zaander · 2022-05-17T20:11:49+00:00

Women want traditional men; but women are not in any way shape or form traditional

Iron-Giant1999 · 2022-04-05T13:33:35+00:00

God I hate peoples who can’t see beyond their own noses

ogsimpology · 2022-04-05T16:01:27+00:00

Most men aren't happy because most men are average, and therefore invisible for the most part.

We have to struggle hard to get dates. It's not as easy as for women, and that frustrates us. Trust me, men aren't happy with the dating scene.

Normies will pretend they're fine with it, but they won't tell you how much they struggle in reality. They hide virginity and make up stories to boost their SMV.

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