The wall does exist but there are misconceptions

melindabrown2023 · 2023-10-23T21:17:02+00:00

Full disclosure I'm a 26yo woman.

I do believe the wall exists in the sense that everyone becomes less attractive with age. It's not so much a hard stop (you won't wake up at 30 and suddenly be ugly), but a slow decline. Rather than calling it 'the wall' it should have been called 'the hill' because attractiveness peaks and then goes down.

Having said that, do not let the wall scaremonger you into settling down. Your 20s (and even 30s) should be spent focused on your education, building your career, investing in yourself and exploring the world. There will most likely always be men available to date, no matter how unattractive you become. And even if there aren't remaining single wont kill you. Better to have lived a fulfilling life for yourself, than to be partnered to a man just for the sake of it. Being single isn't the worst thing in the world

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-10-23T16:53:28+00:00

The wall is nothing more than “people get older and look older”

This whole “she now has to find,” blah blah blah

Young people like to be young and have fun and are sometimes pretty shallow about it. As you get older you both learn “what’s really important” while also wanting to settle down.

You ever seen a group of 40-50 year old men trying to look like they are fitting in at the club? It’s cringe as fuck.

Aromatic_File_5256 · 2023-10-23T20:17:34+00:00

What I have noticed is that at that age bad habitsand good habits tend to show. Some women are effortlessly hot doing too many drugs/alcohol/smoking and eating unhealthy food, but as the 30s approach that changes, while women who take care of their body are more likely to look attractive (even VERY attractive) after that age.

Numerous_Car_8875 · 2023-10-23T17:25:34+00:00

Oh I don't even know anymore, this term has been given so many definitions and descriptions since the invention of the red pill it's just ridiculous. Some people age worse than others, that's all there is to it. Generally younger people are more attractive but it also doesn't guarantee anything. To address the party stage vs finding LTR stage - no matter how much you preach to women they need to look for a mate during their peak year of 18, I don't think many women would want to forgo other things in life in order to secure a mate. Granted I got married at 20 but would never recommend it to anybody, including my daughter. You just don't know life or yourself at that stage and are way more likely to pick wrong

Freethinker312 · 2023-10-23T17:19:25+00:00

From 21-24 those are labeled as her "fun/party" years

There are plenty, plenty of women who are in serious relationships in their early/mid twenties. What you are talking about only is a certain subset of women, not women in general.

Safinated · 2023-10-23T18:00:39+00:00

The wall is a revenge fantasy, not reality. Nobody hits a dead stop in desirability strictly due to age

The biological clock is real, and is not the wall

cuteTroublexo · 2023-10-24T03:35:49+00:00

I'm the opposite of the wall theory. In my early 20's, all I wanted was to find a good man and have a family!! It never happened. Kept dating men who were unsure of what they wanted, or they wanted to wait until much older to have kids and settle down. So naturally I would dump them and keep looking for someone who wanted marriage and kids. Would meet someone and they seemed ok, but they don't have their shit together/aren't husband quality. It was frustrating.

Now I am 28, working, enjoying life, and partying when I can, because I never did any of that stuff when I was younger. I'm not trying to force anything or look for anything, like I did so much when I was younger. If it's not meant to happen, then fuck it 🤷🏻‍♀️ I go to festivals now and I am getting cyber sigilism tattoos. I really said "fuck it". I seem to be in my single era now.

I have an issue where I don't look my biological age. So I attract men that are 20-24 usually. Went on a date a month or so ago with a 24 year old. When he asked me my age, he said "holy shit, you look like you just graduated high school! you're old as fuck". Lmao. I had the same issue when I was in my early 20's as well. I just can never snag an older man that's ready to settle down. Guess I'm doomed to be 30 something with a young boy toy for pleasure. Never thought I'd turn into a cougar.

Fast_Stick_1593 · 2023-10-24T03:50:30+00:00

My question for a lot of my male compatriots.

Why weren’t you having fun at 18-22 and going out partying/enjoying being young?

I know I was and I didn’t care if was with or without a woman doing so. I dated plenty of women through my teens and into my 20’s and it didn’t change how I viewed girls. Part of growing up is learning from your mistakes. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t…

At that age of early 20’s I don’t blame girls at all for exploring themselves. They aren’t teens anymore, they finally are becoming young women. Let them enjoy themselves.

What guys should prioritise at that age and going forward long term is valuing yourself, working on your social skills, making sure you study/work hard…keep fit, do a hobby or play a sport and people will gravitate towards that.

Worked for me, I’m no special looking guy I just maintain fitness and keep playing sports with my best mates at 30 and yet my fiancé is conventionally more attractive than me yet she chased after me. She was just gonna use me as a ONS and I already kind of knew her through my brothers work and that turned into 5 years together and now engaged.

Most women generally are going to be more attractive than you, that’s just biology plus enhancement techniques like makeup/hair styling etc.

As guys we need to work twice as hard to make up for it with social skills and looking fit/healthy. No use sitting around complaining about it. That’s life.

throwaway1276444 · 2023-10-24T08:56:17+00:00

30 year old women are hot. If we are talking about a woman or man that has let themselves go by the time they are 30. That is an individual problem and not age related.

Anyone that keeps themselves fit and healthy looks great at the age of 30 if not better.

38-40 is where your looks actually start to decline, depending on genetics.

So if we are talking purely looks, yes that is true. As for whether a guy would date a younger woman, it depends on your own circumstances. I am very happy with my wife being the same age as me and we look great for being in our 40s. Most people think I am in my 20s.

But if I was in a situation today where I was looking for a partner, I would start by looking for people my own age as I really need to have someone that fits my lifestyle of being a dad in his 40s and not a 25 year old looking to party on the weekends. Also I want someone that isn't looking to grow with ambitions that remain unobtained. That is just too much stress. Rather be with a person that is at peace with what they want and is looking to live their life as it is. And my children has to fit into this as well.

Are 25 year olds more physically attractive than 40 year olds, sure. But that is not the only thing I would look for in a partner. And as much as these guys are harping on about the idea that, this is all men care about. It isn't universally true. Even studies showing mens preferences shows that they weigh personality fairly heavily. And weigh looks only slightly more than women do.

LeNoirPetit · 2023-10-23T16:58:51+00:00

“The Wall” is a classic male coping mechanism that unremarkable men use as a self soothing technique to convince themselves that women one day will share their misery.

It’s sad because a lot of them claim that men peak in their 40s and 50s. This is the exact age group that has the highest suicide rate. If 40+ is the male peak why are so many of them giving up on life? Men crash into this supposed wall so hard they don’t even wanna live anymore.

Inb4 male suicide rate is high because w0man bad

Every time a man unironically talks about the wall I picture him sucking his thumb as he rocks himself to sleep

Evening_Jellyfish924 · 2023-10-23T22:12:02+00:00

"The wall" now is mostly a incel/pedophile thing. These guys are always lowering more and more the age of when women supposedly hit the wall. Recently there was a huge discussion on Twitter if women hit the wall or not at the age of 23. I've seen a couple of them saying the wall is at 20 or even 18. They're not even hiding it anymore.

Bruh_zil · 2023-10-23T18:22:41+00:00

She can't physically attract any man once she hits 30

She can't physically attract the man she wants once she hits 30. FTFY. It's not about attracting any man, it's about attracting Chad. AF/BB still exists.

MisterDudeBroGuy · 2023-10-23T20:04:35+00:00

This is a common lie among this sub, l don't know who got the idea women suddenly loose their beauty once they hit 30, a woman can still relatively attract men in her 30s because makeup exists and many other metrics she can use

I feel like this tends to be stated by younger men whom these older women wouldn't be dating in the first place. It's a revenge fantasy, and a poorly constructed one. These young men, not counting that they are only going to get older too. This leads into the other cope 'men age like wine, women age like milk.'

I'm 41. Sure, I wasn't looking at women my current age when I was younger. Now, I don't have much of a choice. You mentally just start to align with the reality of your age.

Lastly, the greatest delusion, men thinking they can date 23 yr old women when they are at the age of the female 'wall.'

The one true wall for women, is the fertility wall. THAT is the wall. And for men, we should be considering that our wall also, in those regards. Our sperm quality diminishes, and we diminish in the young dating/marriage market also in regards to producing children. Any man trying to do so at too late of a time is an inconsiderate asshole. You're running high chances of birth defects in your offspring, and you are going to die much earlier in your child's life. You shouldn't want to be an old date. You've got till 40, and 45 is pushing it.

Hrquestiob · 2023-10-23T23:17:27+00:00

I have always disagreed with the idea of a “wall” and that dating gets harder for the average woman and easier for the average man after a certain age. However, it does occur to me now that, for both sexes, if you’re single in your thirties (and not dating significantly younger people) you’ll have a smaller pool available to you. Many people pair off in their 20s

No-Resource2745 · 2023-10-23T16:56:52+00:00

Lol - I’m 33 years old, and folks still assume I’m in my mid twenties. I don’t really do a lot of makeup, although I do have a basic skincare routine. Before meeting my partner, it actually caused a lot of issues trying to meet folks, as men my age would assume a large age-gap, and less mature men in their mid twenties who I wouldn’t be interested in as they largely lack the emotional maturity for a stable relationship ship would hit on me thinking I was there age. So yeah, there, I just disproved “the wall”

MistyMaisel · 2023-10-23T17:46:38+00:00

I think a lot of people confuse "settling down" in the 30s with that meaning they started seeking that person in their late 20s.

This doesn't match up with anything I've really seen of the majority of women. What I've witnessed is that women start searching for the one when they start dating and it takes a decade of frogs to find prince charming.

Some women have fun through this process thus the sense of it being a party, some women don't. But very few women aren't seeking Mr. Right during their early 20s. They just tend to quickly find what I quickly found myself: Mr. Right is busy partying or boy are there a lot of Mr. Wrongs wearing a Mr. Right mask.

Ok_Cows · 2023-10-23T19:40:37+00:00

This is delusional. Any woman can settle down at any age she wants. There is no such thing as the wall AT ALL

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-10-23T20:28:36+00:00

Everything you wrote describes men too 🤷‍♀️ also plenty of childfree women exist now

HolidayThrowawayed · 2023-10-23T17:27:46+00:00

The only wall happens AFTER one has kids. Postpartum looks like it's a bitch.

The whole idea of the "thin trad homemaker mom vs the fat single feminist" is just cope.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2023-10-23T19:37:10+00:00

I think it's pretty safe to say that the red pill "wall" that women supposedly hit is a complete lie. Women can get dates and sex pretty much from anyone they want and at any age

ktdotnova · 2023-10-23T19:18:49+00:00

A good looking, beautiful woman in their 30's... is attracted to men that aren't looking for her. I agree that a good looking beautiful woman, herself, is high value but it's hard because theoretically the men "in her league" would rather go for someone in their 20s.

Fit_Kiwi9703 · 2023-10-23T23:09:53+00:00

Time changes people.

DecisionPlastic9740 · 2023-10-23T23:51:33+00:00

They do lose their beauty but there are too many men with limited options that it's not an issue.

lemonasia · 2023-10-24T03:12:01+00:00

The concept of “the wall” generally gives me comfort, especially when I think about the women who rejected me in my 20s. However, in reality, I find many women attractive well into their 30s and early 40s.

For us men, it’s kind of like a misogynistic cope to deal with all the women who rejected us sexually when we were younger. In reality we get old too, everyone does. It’s just part of life.

KorinTowerFreeloader · 2023-10-24T05:15:55+00:00

30 years old is not some golden rule. For some, it's earlier. For others, it's later. Having said that, it's the representation of a woman who spent her 20s partying with Chads and never got the commitment. Then, suddenly she remembers there is a biological clock in the 30s. Whereas she can still get a ton of sex with countless guys, she will have a hard time finding someone who matches the extensive list of traits she requires in a partner for life. This is not only because she is past her physical peak, but also due to the emotional baggage from numerous encounters (which doesn't apply to women who were actually in committed relationships before) and unrealistically high standards. That, combined with her physical decline, the fact that many of the men she rejected improved their SMV throughout the years, and these men are now targeting younger women they couldn't previously attract. In the 30s, a lot of high-value men are taken, so the single women often grow frustrated and bitter. Seemingly, they are not aware of the fact that what is attractive to them in a man (professional success, financial stability, certain personality traits) is not what men look for. Ironically, the very same women understood the importance of physical attraction, having fun in life, etc. in their 20s, but now, they struggle to get their happy ending.

Pathosgrim · 2023-10-23T19:14:50+00:00

The wall is an exaggeration. Women won't lose much of their value and they will indeed remain with enough of it that puts them over their male counterparts.

theprettyocean · 2023-10-23T22:46:11+00:00

I'm 33. The issue isn't really about looks. I look like I'm 25 max according to the men I know, and I also can see it. Not really about makeup either because these men have all seen me without makeup... I do look young, I don't "need" makeup thankfully.

The issue is finding good, attractive, established men my age who are single. This one is a bit tougher than it was when I was 24, and much tougher than when I was 22 (minus the established bit). Although the men I meet now are all established basically (except for a couple of the late 30s men, surprisingly, turns out that age doesn't guarantee maturity and stability), so that's nice... it takes that part out, and I'm also established so that part is nice.

The reality is that good people get paired up over time. The reality is also that people tend to experience breakups. I've seen a few breakups in my social circle recently. It's a reminder that not all relationships last, and people who were taken 6 months ago may not be today nor in 2 months.

PS - men also have a biological clock.

Spare-Estimate5596 · 2023-10-24T00:13:04+00:00

The wall is 40. Everything that the RP says happens to women when they hit that age. Maybe 35 is youngest. That is only because they cant have kids. But they will still have plenty of men who are one swipe away because so few men are getting laid.

Crafty_Letter_1719 · 2023-10-24T00:58:44+00:00

Of course woman can still be attractive to men once she hits 30. She can even still be attractive to men once she hits 60.

The point is she is unlikely to attract the same “calibre” of man post 30 than she would at her early twenties beauty peak.

The Wall doesn’t mean a woman becomes unattractive. It just means she’ll never again be as attractive(in the eyes of the majority of men) as she was in her early twenties. This is why if a woman wants the best chance of finding the most attractive long term partner to her;she is most likely to do so during her so call party phase rather then when her biological clock starts ticking.

SlowEffective8146 · 2023-10-23T17:29:20+00:00

Women complaining about their options when dating over 30:

The correct answer is because their own value went down relative to the market

The cogdis is that "there's no good men left"

upsidemaze · 2023-10-23T17:16:17+00:00

This looks like hamster vomit so lets begin

When a woman is 29-32 and single, she begins to prioritize finding a long-term partner for marriage and having children, this two things become her top priorities vs when she was 22-24 and didn't consider such things

okay fair way to put it, but thats not wall. Thats hamster puke women use to justify sleeping in 20s and settling in 30s

"She can't physically attract any man once she hits 30"

For one night stand sure, for relationship and marriage, no.

l don't know who got the idea women suddenly loose their beauty once they hit 30, a woman can still relatively attract men in her 30s because makeup exists and many other metrics she can use

Now why would a man, who is long term relationship material will settle for woman in 30s who has to resort to putting plaster of paris on her face to look at par with women in her 20s when he can just get with relationship minded woman in her 20s

Again the wall isn't that she looses her beauty but she now has to focus on finding a LT man and having children due to the biological clock many women are aware of

NO, wall is when she is unable to attract attractive men for long term relationship or marriage so she has to settle for beta type even if that

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VasiliyZaitzev · 2023-10-23T18:17:16+00:00

The Wall^SPLAT! is simply and analogy, and irl does not operate like a game of musical chairs where the music stops and those women who find themselves without a seat have to leave the floor. Women 30+ can get male attention. They may even be able to get commitment, but, generally speaking, their appeal is going to be less than it was, say, at 22.

As a result, women may also find themselves increasingly unhappy with what's on offer in terms of what they want, vs what they can attract for a long-term partner. The best advice? Gather ye rosebuds while ye may.

macone235 · 2023-10-23T20:15:56+00:00

Again the wall isn't that she looses her beauty but she now has to focus on finding a LT man and having children due to the biological clock many women are aware of

That's exactly what that means, and there are studies that prove as much.

However, losing attractiveness doesn't mean women are now ugly. Women start on a pedestal, and are simply knocked down it, and must settle for more realistic options if they want to have a family.

To some, that may not even seem like that big of a deal, but to others who are directly affected - it will be a drastic step down in lifestyle that leads to unhappiness and resentment.

Leather_Fishing_8706 · 2023-10-23T17:34:34+00:00

Gigacope

Turbulent-Tonight975 · 2023-10-24T07:09:56+00:00

I think it is as much weight gain and decline is beauty that are both at play. Also for most women it isn't just a day she hits 'the wall' and suddenly goes from hot to ugly. Most women usually start declining by around 27 because after 23, women lose much of their brown adipose tissue and have major declines in metabolism. At this point a woman much either exercise more and lower her calorie intake or she is likely to start gaining weight that will often adds up substantially within a few years if she doesn't directly address it.

What men are describing in the wall is some arbitrary point where the decline is very noticable compared to maybe a few years earlier. As a man in my early 30s, I will say that the physical decline of many women I have known from 27 to 32 has been shocking to me. I am talking women who never had kids either. Many of these women went form 8s to 4s in just 5 years.

I have seen some of these women go from being able to attract almost any man at 25-27 to only really having guys in their late 30s-early 40s wanting to date them. Many of these men are not that great looking and many have been divorced or have kids. These women in 5 years time went from getting hot 27 year old men (when the women were that age) to now getting average guys at best (when these women are 31-34). Of course hot dudes will message them on apps trying to hook up, but they aren't showing much interest beyond that. I can tell you from the conversations I have seen that these women are not happpy about

A big issue with this whole conversation is the people having it are in their 20s. The women in their 20s are having the largest dating pool and the most dating opportunities they will ever have while the men will generally have more opportunities in the years to come. These 20 something women struggle to see a world beyond the abundance most of them enjoy, while most of the same aged men are struggle to realize that things can get way better in a few years. That was the turning point for me in looking at RP. Most of its descriptions were pretty much true watching the people around me.

purplish_possum · 2023-10-23T17:55:20+00:00

OP gets the misconception part wrong.

Women don't hit the proverbial wall at 30. They hit it somewhere between late 30s and early 50s (there's a lot of variation). Women generally lose their sex appeal at the same time they're losing their fertility.

Early 30s women still maintain the vast majority of whatever sex appeal the were born with. But once their fertility starts to decline (lots of variability here too) looks decline in tandem. Mother Nature is a major league bitch.

Amiskon2 · 2023-10-23T18:11:47+00:00

The wall exists but it is not like a static solid point. It is more like going up on a slope. At some point fertility is lost, energy is down, sexual interest is decreased, etc.

The irony? Women invented the term to manipulate men into having kids with them earlier. They just get mad when men use that term.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-10-23T19:06:31+00:00

It's moire complex than that. Men have a preference for both beauty (good genes indicators) AND neoteny.

When women keep most of the beauty but lose the neoteny, the male response to them can shift from that intoxicating mix of sexual desire and almost romantic reverence to something more purely sexual. I am told it is a distinctly different feeling on the receiving end.

cbig86 · 2023-10-23T22:08:03+00:00

The thing with attractiveness is that once you're past 30, all the bad things you did or just bad habits during 20s start to show up in your appeareance.

If during 20s a person has a bad diet, drinks alcohol, smokes cigarrettes, does drugs, doesnt get enough sleep, by the time you're 30+ you get bad skin, wrinkles, obesity, mental dissorders, baggy eyes, bad teeth, etc

All of the above apply for both genders, that is why there are some people in their 30s or 40s and look just amazing... Bad habits just now show in our appeareance rather easily than they did in our 20s.

Different-Virus-7474 · 2023-10-23T22:30:34+00:00

The wall to me means they've lost their leverage to get a relationship. They can hit the wall earlier or later depending on their lifestyle and choices.

Some-Parsnip-1551 · 2023-10-23T23:00:28+00:00

The wall exists past 30 mentally, physically and spiritually. If you're in a position of dating women in their 30s then it's best you ask for pictures of her medicine cabinet rather than pictures of herself.

Confident-Cupcake164 · 2023-10-24T10:48:04+00:00

She can no longer get rich smart sugar daddies.

Sure there is is marriage market. But then she got relatively poorer dumber men and heavily infested by government regulation.

I don't look for sugar babies over 24.

How many children I can get out of her? Not cost effective.

One 30+ years old beautiful sugar baby told me she's interested in a white guy that treat her like trash.

Then she left us both.

I was like, wow. Fortunately, I made things transactional. All this time I didn't spend a lot of money on her either.

JazzyVinyls · 2023-10-24T10:53:58+00:00

The wall only exists if you imply a woman wants children. Not all women want children. I myself do not want children. I am 37, I look much younger than my age and guys who are 23 years old hit on me. I am pretty sure that I am attractive. And I am 100% sure I have not hit the wall.

On the contrary, some men decide they don't want to date me because I don't want to have children. And that's okay. I wouldn't want to have children with them, either. There are plenty of men out there who also don't want children.

Meanwhile, I see many middle aged divorced men who can't find a LTR because any sane woman would avoid dating a divorcee with children. The wall is a reality for men, not women. Women can always find a partner, at any age, any time she wants.

Mr_Chad_Thunderpenis · 2023-10-24T12:56:45+00:00

A woman being post wall doesn't mean she's become invisible, it just means she's become less desirable, mostly for longterm relationships/marriage, less for short term situations(since men will fuck almost anything if it requires little to no effort on their part after all).

Also, yes, the Wall also includes loss of beauty, among other things(fertility, baggage, blablabla). The average 33 year old will look worse than the average 23 year old. That's just a fact. Even the hottest 23 year old woman will look worse at 33 compared to before. Adriana Lima at 22 will have more and better options than Adriana Lima at 32, just based on looks alone.

Novel-Tip-7570 · 2023-10-24T13:42:14+00:00

The real wall is the fertility wall. I see many people underestimating how hard it can be to have kids after a certain age.

They see celebrities having kids at 40 but don't realize that these celebrities likely used IVF and surrogacy.

Radiant_Specific6542 · 2023-10-25T00:21:36+00:00

Over exaggeration on your take. Your quote "She can't physically attract a man after 30" isn't the foundation of the concept of "The Wall".

It's the diminished ability to obtain a man of quality and be less sexually desirable in comparison to her youth.

It's commononly agreed upon that women of virtually of any age can get sex whenever they want. The wall is in reference of diminished value of being a long-term candidate for monogamous relationships.

This stage a woman will also see a decline in attention and effort out of men but most people when referencing the wall isn't saying a woman 30+ has completely lost their ability to ignite any sort of attraction out of a man.

Dudes will fck a pillow, let alone a willing woman that's 30+.

Title	The wall does exist but there are misconceptions
Author	DerayRevan
Upvotes	24
Comments	295
Date	October 23, 2023 4:49 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/17ep1zy/the_wall_does_exist_but_there_are_misconceptions/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-wall-does-exist-but-there-are-misconceptions.1236102 https://theredarchive.com/post/1236102

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