Why does autism seem to be the only hyper-masculine trait which isn't attractive?

abaxeron · 2025-02-11T19:01:15+00:00

Male-pattern baldness, that's already two.

Inb4: butbutbut there are women who... Yeah, and maybe there are women who find mild Asperger's tolerable and kinda cute if you squint; you know what I mean, I know that you know.

EulenWatcher · 2025-02-11T17:20:53+00:00

If you assume that the theory is correct, that's a big "if". It might be not correct, so it doesn't lead to the outcome you'd expect if it was correct.

Putting that aside, being on the spectrum heavily affects one's social skills. It makes it harder for a person to read others' cues and give expected cues to others, so they have harder times socializing with others which leads to problems with dating as well. Romance and flirting are built on this terrible mix of changing and contradicting social norms and unsaid things read in-between lines - it's probably the worst combination for an ND person.

Electric_Death_1349 · 2025-02-11T18:53:20+00:00

On what fucking planet are autistic men seen as “hyper-masculine”?!? Because it’s not the one we live on.

spanglesandbambi · 2025-02-11T17:27:06+00:00

As someone who wrote a first class Master dissertation on Autism the Empathising–systemising theory is very much no longer in use.

We now understand Autism to be a neurological disorder. It appears differently due to cognitive differences in male vs. female brains, which can cause a bias in its diagnosis.

Male ASD in a child under 3 years almost always has a very obvious language delay, but will be able to communicate via taking an adult to an item. A female of the same age has the words but still can't communicate they have just copied the words more effectively.

TinyBlonde15 · 2025-02-11T17:28:50+00:00

It's not a masculine trait... it's a neurological difference from typical... it happens in any sex. How is it masculine?

Flightlessbirbz · 2025-02-11T18:25:48+00:00

Well first of all, the idea that autism is basically “extreme male brain” is pretty outdated. Autism is girls/women just hasn’t been studied much until recently, which has lead to a lot of flawed understanding around the disorder.

Second, not all stereotypical male traits are attractive to women, just like not all stereotypical female traits are attractive to men. For example, men tend to prefer women who display lower neuroticism, despite the fact women score higher on this trait on average. Women also tend to prefer more conscientious men despite the fact men tend to score lower on this trait on average. So basically, when a trait interferes with societal functioning, it becomes unattractive.

BonesAndStuff01 · 2025-02-11T17:58:47+00:00

Sounds like the definition of "masculine" needs some fleshing out in this context.

Like when we are talking biological masculinity, that's clearly more than just systematizing.

Insects systemize far more effectively than people for the most part, so insects should be considered hyper-masculine by this theory.

It raises a lot of questions about human nature and production and exploitation etc. Hyper masculine insects are fearless hyper efficient executors with no self interest, all in service of the hive or their queen or whatever.

They are thoroughly exploited and then discarded once their work is done.

Hmm.

Imo humans aren't insects lol, but we are macroscopic systems with some of these features obviously, my immediate take is that as mammals we have a higher capacity for empathy and so it's not evolutionary advantageous for us to go too far in to systematization, that is to say that Empathy and there feminity or nurturing or whatever, to a degree , is highly valued and rewarded in human males but could become unattractive unless their partner has a very high degree of systemizing cogniton to balance it.

So an emotionally in tune, empathetic, caring, fun man could be a good mate choice for a woman who leans more in to categorising and can come off as somewhat brisk at times and I think we see that a lot.

cutegolpnik · 2025-02-11T22:48:43+00:00

Making fart jokes is hyper masculine and unattractive

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-02-11T18:14:03+00:00

Violence, lecherousness, promiscuity, emotional constipation, antisocialness, arrogance, aggressiveness and competitiveness are all hypermasculine traits that are unattractive on some level

Good_Result2787 · 2025-02-11T18:06:15+00:00

It's neither inherently masculine nor is it even a "trait." It's a condition, one which may manifest various characteristics, idiosyncraties, and perhaps traits in people affected by the condition.

Putting that aside, heavy media bias is responsible for a lot of people's preconceived notions about things related to disorders or disabilities. That's not the whole issue, but it is a massive part of the issue. And the ways in which media typically portrays autism is a sort of "all-or-nothing" scenario where one is either made "better" or "more valuable" thanks to how their autism manifests, or is instead totally useless for the same reason. (Happens to tons of media representation of anything that is different from the norm, but autism has been popularized in media stories in this way in recent years.

IcyTrapezium · 2025-02-12T03:22:33+00:00

As a diagnosed autistic woman: it’s not hyper-masculinity. This idea is pretty harmful for women and leads to us being under-diagnosed.

Fab_Glam_Obsidiam · 2025-02-11T17:28:38+00:00

I think your premise is wrong. Women do not tend to be attracted to men with an extreme male manifestation of a sexually dimorphic trait. Look at Chalamet, Justin Bieber, or any other heartthrobs for women. They're all twinks or twink-adjacent.

Apprehensive-Alps279 · 2025-02-11T17:38:32+00:00

People are judgmental assholes everyone has to be perfect or else you're casted aside. It is pretty pathetic

Fair-Bus-4017 · 2025-02-11T17:25:10+00:00

Autism isn't a masculine trait. What are you talking about lmao?

And please explain how something which hinders your social abilities should benefit you in social situations like dating and shooting your shot?

I can't tell if this is bait or ...

DumbWordsmith · 2025-02-11T17:35:18+00:00

IMO women want powerful, influential men who can manipulate their environment to their benefit, and being socially awkward makes that very difficult for a man to achieve (unless he possesses other traits that enable him to do so — like looks, size and strength, talent, wealth, etc.).

cassowaryy · 2025-02-11T18:13:36+00:00

“Why are people with social retardation less attractive?”

Do you need someone to explain to you why humans eat food next? In what world would a disability make someone more attractive? Maybe you’re slightly autistic

SnooCats37 · 2025-02-11T18:14:48+00:00

Autism is a huge spectrum and presents differently in each individual. Though autistic people may share traits, not every individual with autism will share the same traits. It can also drastically impact each individual differently, even amongst autistic people with low support needs. Autistic men and women who have medium to high support needs often also have learning difficulties and can experience developmental delays.

I think the autism diagnosis is too individual and complicated to make broad statements about

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2025-02-12T02:29:33+00:00

Dating is a social activity. Ergo, being social is attractive

Possible_Magician130 · 2025-02-12T02:32:11+00:00

Women with autism struggle greatly as well and are more likely to identify as asexual

giveuporfindaway · 2025-02-12T04:40:47+00:00

It could be that autism inhibits other traditionally "masculine perceived" traits.

So autistic people typically aren't boisterous, the life of the party, gregarious.

They're also sensitive to touch, sound, ect - not a great look in a club.

They generally dress like shit. Ditto for controllable appearance in general.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2025-02-13T03:33:18+00:00

'Spergers is biologically hypermasculine but not socially hypermasculine (as evidenced by the fact that nerd culture is seen as an inferior kind of masculinity - a "not-real-men" way of being).

The most likely explanation is that it is a form of hypermasculinity that isn't evolutionarily positive.

KayRay1994 · 2025-02-11T17:42:03+00:00

Autism isn’t a masculine trait though - there are many autistic women, though the symptoms simply present differently, but lead to similar thought processes at the end of the day.

Now, as for why many autistic men aren’t attractive? This is gonna be a hot take for this sub, but I don’t think it has to do with the autism as well-adjusted autistic men, and those who learn how to interact with the world tend to do fine.

I think it honestly has less to do with the autism, and more to do with things like a total lack of socialization, actively refusing to see other viewpoints and a lack of willingness to engage out of one’s comfort zone. I get that autism makes all these things harder (I’ve had experiences with all of this), but like it or not, you have to extend past your comfort zone whether you like it or not, no matter how initially uncomfortable or scary it might be.

Now, I do think because autistic women are socialized far earlier in life, it does work to their benefit to an extent, but at the same time as far as dealing with autistic men goes, you can’t change the past - but you can change the present and the future. Focus on pushing out of that comfort zone, and I think early socialization of young autistic boys is a must as well.

wtknight · 2025-02-11T18:37:52+00:00

Autism isn’t hyper-masculine. What is hypermasculine is being the leader of a group of men.

BabaRoomFan · 2025-02-11T21:40:41+00:00

Tl;dr at the bottom

Not autistic, got diagnosed, but I'm pretty out there, can be socially weird, obsessive with my niche interests, very direct behavior and speech, not great natural social skills (had to work on all of these to get where I am and "pass" as normal).
I think you're totally wrong in our current society, I've dated women who are objectively way way better looking than me, absolutely out of my league, drop dead gorgeous women, and they were all the same as me with super niche interests, stupid humor, arguably autistic behavior.
Women have no problem with autistic traits in my experience, women do have a problem with weirdos, don't be weird, always be kind, take care of yourself, I don't work out but I eat very clean, shave every two weeks exactly, get a haircut every 4 months exactly, dress well, wash my clothes after each use (excluding jeans and coats, monthly and every 3 months), I'm well read even though I don't have a degree, obviously you have to shower every morning (not at night, this is not a preference it's just correct), use very mild deodorant and perfume, take care of your dental hygiene, don't curse unless it's for comedic effect and even then use it sparsely. Bunch of other rules I follow, should be sufficient proof that my behavior is kinda autistic.
I've met other diagnosed and undiagnosed autistic people (mostly the now discontinued Asperger's label) and let me tell you, all of them had many things wrong with them, inconsiderate yappers, stinky mfers, terribly dressed, dirty rooms, long nails, terrible hair, bad breath, spitting while talking, no social awareness of the fact you shouldn't be talking about lolis or hentai with acquaintances usually, I literally picked up a girl leading the convo with "Hi I'm (name) and I like (ecchi anime name)" at a convention when it was clear it would be funny and taken as a joke.
Lots of them were also straight up mean people (intentions don't matter), they gatekeep and try to prove they're better than you at your hobby, lots of them are also idiots, but are absolutely certain they're geniuses, especially if they have a special interest they're very good at (usually a game nobody really cares about).
Anyways I've gone on about this for long enough, but I feel like an in depth answer was required.
Tl;Dr: women don't mind autistic traits, they mind when you're dirty, weird, and mean.

Lovaloo · 2025-02-12T03:53:27+00:00

The more you systematize, the worse you are at empathizing. People generally like it when others are capable of socializing. I've had periods where I've gotten so analytical that I seem like a robot. I can barely speak.

Taking a break and reading fiction, listening to music etc helps negate this somewhat.

...Some studies suggest that ASD has associated facial features.

<image>

...But the research is not robust. Not every autistic person displays these facial features. They are also not necessarily considered attractive.

Appropriate_Cow1378 · 2025-02-12T04:09:57+00:00

im confused how autism is masculine, as an autistic woman.

Schleudergang1400 · 2025-02-12T09:13:24+00:00

ie, women tend to be attracted to men with an extreme male manifestation of a sexually dimorphic trait, and ditto for men regarding women

That is not true. Think about hairyness, think about aggression/violence, think about excessive muscularity, excessively protruding brow ridges, extreme jaw width, and very deep-set eyes, risk taking/recklessness, height over 2m

The ideal is not at the extreme ends of dimorphic traits. Everything comes at a tradeoff. The negatives of extreme traits of masculinity outweigh the benefits. Autism is no different, if we accept it as an extreme male trait.

<image>

Adunaiii · 2025-02-12T15:06:48+00:00

Why is this post downvoted to oblivion? Dark triad traits seem both masculine and attractive, whereas autismus maximus is viewed as cringe, why?

LilacMists · 2025-02-11T18:07:07+00:00

My ex was diagnosed Asperger’s (although we don’t call it that anymore). I enjoyed that he was straightforward in his communication, and he was incredibly intelligent. Those were the most attractive things about his autistic tendencies. That said, he was incredibly self serving. He wasn’t motivated by love, doing the “right” thing, or how his actions affected others - he was interested in how he could satisfy his own desires. So while he was enjoying the relationship, things were wonderful. Then one day he broke off our engagement and I didn’t hear from him again.

I can only give my experience, of course. But it appeared he didn’t form an emotional attachment with me, he simply enjoyed our time together, and when it no longer served him for whatever reason, he left without a second thought. He didn’t think to care that I was wildly confused by all this, or that he uprooted my life by leaving me with an apartment I couldn’t afford alone, etc.

I suppose that’s always a risk regardless, but considering autistic people are often spoken of as struggling to form connections and show empathy, it’s not a risk I was willing to take again

James_M_Croft · 2025-02-11T17:45:24+00:00

Controversial take but I think it is that autistic men can't lie very well.

Many women need to be kept their own world away from their own issues and the issues of the world to engage with sex. And autistic men just can't do that well. I've seen an autistic man even say to the eye-candy girl in my office that she is an eye-candy girl. He barely can avoid lawsuits, he has no hope of getting laid. Honesty is the worst policy with women, as not even if you are hot, you can't really avoid the consequence of too much honesty.

I've seen many socially unaware men, autistic and non autistic alike, but it is usually the ones who can't keep a good frame/lie (autistic) that fail the most. It also explains why the few autistic guys who can keep a good lie/frame going on, tend to be the few who do get laid.

HTML_Novice · 2025-02-11T18:17:17+00:00

Because women aren’t attracted to masculine traits, they’re attraction to domination and power. Those are masculine traits, but not all masculine traits are about domination.

Autism is hyper man brain, but in the systemic and pattern recognition way, not the domination and power accumulation way, which is what triggers their attraction

Efficient-Baker1694 · 2025-02-11T18:48:29+00:00

Autism isn’t a masculine trait though. But as far as why people don’t date someone with autism, it goes back to fear of unknown. They know something is different about us but they can’t pinpoint what it is exactly. Because of that, they don’t want to date someone that has a lot more unknowns to them than a NT person. It’s why a lot of autistic men never get the chance to date and be in a relationships. Cause the chances were never there from the beginning.

AutoModerator · 2025-02-11T17:10:06+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

2025-02-11T18:00:45+00:00

"women tend to be attracted to men with an extreme male manifestation of a sexually dimorphic trait"

Yes, but within certain parameters, amongst which is proportionality. Not sure how dimorphism works on the psychological level (vs physical), but let's say it does, so we can draw an analogy with men who are short but hyper muscular or extremely tall but skinny. Both will have their fans, but in general, women prefer someone more proportional, so it would make sense that a psychological or neurological extreme would have a similar reaction.

anonymousppd123123 · 2025-02-11T18:24:05+00:00

Applying systemisation to people allows you to brute force social interaction the same way

AssPlay69420 · 2025-02-11T22:51:52+00:00

This assumption is built on an all or nothing fallacy that’s wrong in the first place.

While women and men do have different traits that they prioritize, they are attracted to the same traits - everyone wants a partner who has a nice ass, everyone wants a partner who is funny, everyone wants a partner that is rich, everyone wants a partner that is fascinating, everyone wants a partner that only has eyes for them, everyone wants a partner who protects them, etc. etc. etc.

Those traits may be more or less important to one or the other, but there’s very few traits that are seen as good by women and bad by men or vice versa.

y2kjanelle · 2025-02-12T05:26:35+00:00

Then maybe the theory is wrong.

Regardless of masculine or feminine traits, we’re all human and certain behaviors and looks and traits are unattractive to humans in general. For example, we register darting eyes and fidgeting as anxiety inducing for ourselves or someone who is anxious. Yelling is associated with anger.

Traits of autism and not getting certain social norms and cues register as weird, odd, unfamiliar and/or inappropriate. So even if it’s systematic or masculine, the lack of adherence to basic HUMAN social skills and norms trigger reactions of discomfort, unease, lack of attraction.

Master-Watercress567 · 2025-02-12T09:29:35+00:00

We don't even know that "autism" is one disorder because our understanding of mental health is so poor.

Sexually dimorphic traits are not always attractive. More women would be into a skinny but facially hot actor than a professional strongman or fighter.

txstrugbyguy · 2025-02-12T11:18:04+00:00

The fact that NT people act like just saying exactly what you mean is a lesser form of communication has always been wild to me. Just because the majority of the people feel uncomfortable with a superior way of communication doesn't make their preference logically and objectively inferior. I play the game. Successfully. But it's insipid in my humble opinion.

goo_wak_jai · 2025-02-12T16:24:19+00:00

Because women naturally produce estrogen in greater quantities than men. That's it. It's not really a secret. Estrogen has been associated with empathy, emotional intelligence and nurturing but...PPD posts here make it plainly obvious that the same hormone also make women, whether neurodivergent or neurotypical, less likely to associate masculinity with those displaying autistic traits.

When truly debilitating autistic women still have significantly more success locking down a partner and producing offspring, despite the severe handicap and social stigmatization, than their male counterparts, that's how you know how incredibly ruthless Mother Nature designed humans to be.

ThrowRA965527 · 2025-02-12T17:24:39+00:00

Balding and nose hair

Embarrassed-Tune9038 · 2025-02-12T19:10:44+00:00

Because autism doesn't like lies and sees politeness and etiquette as generally BS.

Tylikcat · 2025-02-12T19:54:56+00:00

First off, keep in mind that EQ and SQ aren't opposites, they're two different things that can be measured independently. (I test as being pretty much maxed out on both. Which is probably a good thing for a CS prof and bio roboticist - I need to be able related and communicate with my students, but I deal with a lot of abstract quantitative material.

The idea that autism is an extreme manifestation of male tendencies is many levels of dubious. (To start with, the quality of research into gender differences in brains is frequently pretty poor, and overplayed in the popular press.) But I could give you a list of stereotypical masculine tendencies that aren't attractive, starting with the stinking...

flextov · 2025-02-13T01:36:12+00:00

I’m around some autistic boys of various ages. They are constantly stimming, are very awkward, and have significant problems with sensory overload. None of that seems particularly masculine. These things don’t exude strength.

SnowySummerDreaming · 2025-02-13T13:42:35+00:00

Your hypothesis fails real world testing.

And Chad is attractive. Gigachad is not.

Puzzleheaded-Badger5 · 2025-02-12T09:01:39+00:00

Because real autism isn't hypermasculine - it's a tragically profound disability. Ability, not disability, is masculine.

The current fashion for calling anyone who is odd, awkward, or (God forbid) very smart is wrong and unfair to real autists.

HandCoversBruises · 2025-02-11T17:16:10+00:00

Women need men to fit into pre-defined roles. Autistic men rarely work out, don’t fight other men, usually get picked on in school for having very specific interests, don’t enjoy talking to people, etc. They are not hypermasculine.

attendquoi · 2025-02-11T17:20:04+00:00

You don't need to empathize with people in order to socialize well.

No-Buy7459 · 2025-02-14T22:00:04+00:00

Ill chime in as an attractive autistic man. Im in my 30s and my body count is 150+ but ive never had a girlfriend. I dont think autism is unattractive especially for casual sex. Since Im autistic Im very emotionally detached and cold. When talking to a girl my default behaviour is not to be a simp and actually be bad to her. This kinda works in my favor along with the fact that Im physically attractive. However for a girlfriend I think you need to be friends as well which is impossible for me. Ive never had a female friend, ever. Not out of ability but Im just not interested in women at all as friends, I have lot of guy friends but I just find women very boring as friends. My interests are typically very nerdy which most women dont like.

Title	Why does autism seem to be the only hyper-masculine trait which isn't attractive?
Author	Charming_Review_735
Upvotes	12
Comments	177
Date	February 11, 2025 5:10 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1in3lhc/why_does_autism_seem_to_be_the_only/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-does-autism-seem-to-be-the-only-hyper.1543572 https://theredarchive.com/post/1543572

Comments