CMV: Coffee dates to see if there's chemistry is a red flag

sadmatchatea · 2025-02-16T17:35:41+00:00

I don’t understand why people have such a problem with coffee dates. It’s a smart idea to meet for the first time in a public place for safety reasons, and you can always go somewhere better after if the chemistry is there. Like maybe don’t go to Dunkin but there are some nicer cafes out there with good atmospheres.

qwertyuduyu321 · 2025-02-16T15:32:53+00:00

If a woman rejects me for proposing a first coffee date, then that's very much in my interest.

She's basically telling me "look, I'm of the batshit crazy breed, don't date or stick your dick in me".

It's an act of kindness.

waffleznstuff30 · 2025-02-16T15:39:20+00:00

Absolutely NOT.

If I am even agreeing to meet up I don't even know if I will like this person why do I want them dropping money on me? Like a dinner or expensive date as a first date especially with dating app dudes is this awkward formal thing. A dinner or expensive date with someone you don't even know? Like what if the vibe is off and you are stuck eating dinner with someone who you don't even like that much and it's rude to walk out. Like I will take the low effort/coffee or drink date any day it's low pressure low expectations. We can leave at any time.

If it doesn't work ah well. Works out you can plan a second date.

It just means your attention can be compensated if you agree to a fancy schmacy date early in dating.

AngeAware · 2025-02-16T15:35:50+00:00

I strongly disagree with this.

The coffee date is just as much about the man "proving" himself as much as the woman "proving" herself. Getting to spend an hour or more locked into a dinner date with someone you barely know and have not established chemistry with sounds like a nightmare to me, not a prize. I get so much secondhand cringe listening to people in restaurants who are clearly on a first date off an app or something and not connecting at all.

Also note that the woman in the TikTok is claiming that your personality does not matter, your physical attractiveness is enough for men to know whether they want to date you. She sounds like a shallow person who wants to date shallow people and has to convince herself that this is how everyone behaves.

Lovers691 · 2025-02-16T15:38:37+00:00

This is some A rank trolling as usual windmill actually made me lol but her points are dumb. For one both people try to prove themselves/impress their date that is the point behind dating. Her second point is just stupid, people typically check if an endeavour is possible or there is a viable chance before investing into it so why should dating be any different. Finally for the last point, 200 dollars is a lot of money to spend on anyone you don’t know like that.

Alarmed_Load8145 · 2025-02-16T15:59:55+00:00

CMV: OP is a walking and talking red flag.

This is one of the worst posts I have ever seen here. "If he doesn't already feel lucky to be in your presence" is both astoundingly arrogant and is a statement which is reflective of the reason why we have seen, for example, a rise in TikToks of women lamenting that all the good men disappeared. Here's why. Women, especially good looking ones, have become accustomed to reeling men in and keeping them there based purely on being a good looking woman. As a consequence, they fail to develop personalities, or at least develop awfully entitled personalities which scare men away. It appears, OP, that you are one of those individuals. They expect men to do everything, and believe that, because they are so good looking, these men will comply. As men grow up, a lot of them realize that beautiful women are everywhere, which means that you now need to bring something else to the table which goes beyond what lies south of the border.

As to point number 1, you have described what it's like to be a man. We have to quite literally degrade ourselves all the time. Point number 2 makes as much sense as saying that an individual should purchase a house before determining whether the house is the right one for them. As to point number 3, I am astounded as to how it is immature to not want to invest $200 to get to know someone. Are you out of your mind? Why in the world would a man spend hundreds of dollars on an individual he barely knows? That's complete madness. If a woman told me a coffee date would be a problem, I'd tell her to go pound sand. You might also want to fix your disclaimer: 'not all women, not all men'. Men, not males. We're not creatures, we're people.

ChadChasingBReturns · 2025-02-16T18:58:58+00:00

WTH is that logic. It’s degrading to be expected to impress a date, but a man should be degraded and impress me?

wtknight · 2025-02-16T15:44:13+00:00

This view doesn't work because of female hypergamy. Women don't even want to date men who feel "lucky to be in their presence". They really want things to be the other way around. A woman who is truly hypergamously attracted to a guy will accept a first date coffee date as long as he pays for it, as it's a legitimate way for him to get to know her in order to determine for himself if she is relationship material.

Boniface222 · 2025-02-16T15:54:37+00:00

If he doesn't already feel lucky to be in your presence

Hell no. If a woman has this much ego she needs to go. We're both human beings. If you think you're not a human being go back to your home planet.

It's degrading to be expected to prove yourself or to impress your date

This is 100% of what dating is about. If you don't want to do this, don't date. That's a fine option to me.

Males should invest in you before checking for chemistry

This is prostitution.

Its immature to not even invest in a $200 dinner date to get to know someone

Again, if I have to pay you to do something, it's prostitution.

If the whole dynamic of the relationship is the man investing money in the woman, it's prostitution. If you are unable to stand each other long enough to enjoy a cup of coffee then you shouldn't be together.

Junior_Ad_3086 · 2025-02-16T18:05:57+00:00

so this woman wants a successful and attractive guy with options to treat her as if she's the only one without even really knowing her? we have a word for that and it's delusion.

avantonly · 2025-02-16T19:32:41+00:00

I think your list is insane and you have these standards to claim that your singleness is a choice. It's all just one massive coping strategy. Your bullet point list is just childish bullshit. You don't need to prove yourself and impress your date but the man does? You don't do anything for the date but expect a man to drop hundreds on you before he even knows if he likes you? You're treating yourself like an escort and you're only gonna attract men who treat you like one.

Also for the fellas, anyone who says women and males is a massive red flag who should be avoided. They will have this mentality and they will abuse and use you.

Feisty-Saturn · 2025-02-16T23:47:54+00:00

It’s not degrading for someone to figure out if there is chemistry before investing in someone. You arnt proving yourself, both of you are figuring out if there is a possibility of a future.
Why should a man invest in a woman or anything at all before knowing if it’s worth it? That’s not how anyone with common sense operates in regards to anything in life.
Unless you are upper middle class, which most people are not, it shows a lack of financial intelligence to spend 200 on a first date. A man dating cannot be expected to spend 200 on every first date, and most likely there will be multiple first dates before finding “the one”. It simply is not financially responsible. A woman who demands that, is a woman who will probably drain of man of his money while offering very little in return.

Imagine thinking someone who doesn’t know you at all should feel worthy to be in your presence, for absolutely no reason. Having that mindset alone is a red flag.

Stock-Argument-1040 · 2025-02-17T03:25:03+00:00

It's degrading to be expected to prove yourself

Is that not exactly what you are trying to get men to do? Prove themselves to you by taking you on a fancy date. But that's okay because? This logic is weird. If you're upset about a coffee date you're probably one of the kinds of people he's trying to weed out anyway so it's a net good for both of you. I'm looking for a partner, not an expense.

Tywinlol2 · 2025-02-16T15:33:14+00:00

If I'm going to drop $200 on a date I might as well go to the brothel instead and skip all the nonsense, and just get to sex. It is a better return on the investment.

The purpose of a date is to spend time with another person to figure out if you are compatible. To this end it is best to go hiking though a city park or something and then grab a quick bite in the local Applebee. That way you get plenty of time to talk in semi-private environment, while doing something healthy. Fancy dinner date is all about trying to impress the other person with money, which outside of finances, tells you nothing about other person.

peteypete78 · 2025-02-16T15:39:44+00:00

All you are saying here is that it's not ok for a man to expect you to do anything but fine for you to expect the man to do everything.

Plain old hypocrisy.

KayRay1994 · 2025-02-16T15:44:44+00:00

For one thing, I’ll only pay for a $200 dinner if me and her are officially dating and we’re celebrating a milestone. If I’m paying $200 for a date, it better for an activity rather than fancy food. That being said, if I barley or don’t know her, I sure as hell ain’t dropping $200 on a first (or frankly first few) date regardless on if it’s an activity or not

That all being said, either a coffee date or a chill, daytime pub is more often than not my choice for a first date. The whole intent of date 1 is I wanna see if we vibe at a base level, so keeping it low stakes is the right call.

Of course, if I’m asking someone I already know out on a date then the coffee date becomes far less of a factor and we can jump right into activities (hiking, local live music, mini golf, etc) - but if I’m going out on a date with someone who I barely know, a coffee or a chill pub is the best choice imo

Siukslinis_acc · 2025-02-16T15:49:46+00:00

Nah. I need to check for chemistry before investing.

shadowrangerfs · 2025-02-16T18:45:40+00:00

Why should it cost me $200 dollars to get to know you? You aren't spending $200 to get to know me. I've gotten to know hundreds of people in my life. Not one has cost me $200. So why are you so special that it should cost $200 just to get to know you?

If I have to spend $200 just to get to know you, then I already know all that I need to know.

You're asking me to spend money to prove myself to you. So you're degrading me.
Out of curiosity, what does the women have to do before checking if there is chemistry?

envious1998 · 2025-02-16T21:11:34+00:00

You think it’s degrading to have to impress your date when that’s literally what men have been having to do for centuries now. These troll posts have got to go.

Freethinker312 · 2025-02-16T21:55:01+00:00

Downright ridiculous. Only a fool wastes his money like that.

rejected-again · 2025-02-16T22:01:42+00:00

OP is the type to want to use men for free meals. That's why she hates coffee dates.

cantthinkofaname1010 · 2025-02-17T02:31:28+00:00

There's no reason whatsoever to spend a high amount of money on someone you don't even know and haven't seen before. Makes zero sense, and any woman that says otherwise has nefarious intentions.

I'm assuming that "coffee date" not only refers to a literal coffee date, but is also a euphemism for a "low effort" date, which is basically anything that doesn't require high monetary expenditure.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2025-02-18T03:50:39+00:00

It's degrading to be expected to prove yourself or to impress your date

Yet it seems like you're saying that's exactly what men should do, in the very next list point:

Males should invest in you BEFORE checking to see if there is any chemistry

How is investing in a woman in order to get a chance at her company not being expected to prove himself to her or impress her?

DrunkOnRamen · 2025-02-16T15:30:43+00:00

I glanced at that woman's profile, it is some FDS grade advice she gives out. you can disregard everything that she says.

Technical_End9162 · 2025-02-16T15:36:11+00:00

EVERYONE HAS TO WORSHIP ME BEFORE THEY EVEN KNOW ME or they are sexist pigs!

Low-Chipmunk-6362 · 2025-02-16T15:35:41+00:00

> "If he doesn't already feel lucky to be in your presence, you should not be going on a date with that man". I agree

i didnt know the women on tinder were jesus christ, that i should just be grateful to be in their mere presence

> she makes of valid points:

It's degrading to be expected to prove yourself or to impress your date

i hope you realize thats what youre asking of the men right?

>Its immature to not even invest in a $200 dinner date to get to know someone

during dating phase, youre gonna go on multiple dates a month, who wants to spend that on someone you might no click with?

most dates dont turn out well, and if you cant enjoy someones company without a three digit dinner, i dont think its gonna work out in the long term

Present-Afternoon-70 · 2025-02-16T15:35:00+00:00

If you have a conserving world view its fine to have this view. If you believe in equality or Liberal values its wrong because it is less equitable and fails to recognize people should slowly get to know each other in relationships. A coffee date is also better for women, it happens in the afternoon, and allows women especially a way to easily protect themselves. There is no expectation on either side to do anything.

PineappleKind1048 · 2025-02-16T15:44:44+00:00

Dating is not win lose. This is how the post reads to me. The coffee date isn’t for you to impress him. Put yourself in a man’s shoes, $200 for a first date and you go on 3 dates a month plus if you go on a second date with some of the women they may expect an ever larger investment will get any man under $150k broke lol

Just_Natural_9027 · 2025-02-16T15:44:44+00:00

Some of you fail to realize dating is choice based and not a hostage situation.

ViolentShallot · 2025-02-16T15:51:27+00:00

Males should invest in you before checking for chemistry
Its immature to not even invest in a $200 dinner date to get to know someone

Why?

IcyTrapezium · 2025-02-16T16:03:44+00:00

Disagree. First date is a vibe check. I would actually find it to be a sign of either desperation or poor judgment to spend a great deal of money on me for a first date. If a woman is looking for a wise provider type of man, wouldn’t a man saving his money for a woman with real relationship potential show good money management skills? A really nice dinner (if you’re into that) would be more of a third date expense, I would argue. At the very least second date.

No-Rough-7390 · 2025-02-16T16:04:35+00:00

If anything, she’s kind of confirming that it is a good idea. If she thinks you’re attractive enough, she’s not going to give a shit what you two choose to do.

aguad3coco · 2025-02-16T16:12:59+00:00

I dont date conservative women so all these rules about what each gender has to do while dating dont really concern me.

Prudent_Heat23 · 2025-02-16T16:24:53+00:00

Does no one else think this is just rage bait?

TermAggravating8043 · 2025-02-16T16:42:03+00:00

Nah I can’t get behind this, I mean, who do you think you are that you expect someone who doesn’t know you to drop £££.

A coffee first date is fine, you both should be using this date to ensure you want the same things. Hopefully you do and you have a great time, thus either move the date into something else or plan for something a bit more exciting the next time

John_Oakman · 2025-02-16T17:24:41+00:00

Leveraging social legitimacy value only makes sense in societies coherent enough in which such social legitimacy can be utilized. In the modern cultures & societies of the Euro-Atlantic democracies there's not enough cohesion & community for the average woman to leverage her social legitimacy to get that level of initial effort from males.

Mouslimanoktonos · 2025-02-16T17:34:26+00:00

This is a very lazy bait, but I will answer regardless.

a woman talks about how males who try to go for low investment dates early on basically just want the woman to impress them.

No? How did she derive such a conclusion? I really cannot see any logic in it.

"If he doesn't already feel lucky to be in your presence, you should not be going on a date with that man".

If both of you are average, why should he feel lucky? What is so rare and irreplaceable about you? Average men regularly get dates, so if the two of you don't work out, he can always find someone else. The only men I can see fitting this description are insecure incels.

It's degrading to be expected to prove yourself or to impress your date

Why? Don't you want the man you are supposed to have an intimate longterm relationship with to be impressed by you? Also, doesn't this mean men degrade themselves when they try and impress women and should stop?

Males should invest in you BEFORE checking to see if there is any chemistry

Why? Literally every investor worth their salt will tell you that investing large amounts of resources into an avenue that is likelier to fail than not is an exponentially moronic decision that will bankrupt you faster than you can blink. Why should men invest before making sure they will be getting returns?

Its immature to not even invest in a $200 dinner date to get to know someone

Immature? How? I'd say it's very mature not to dump hundreds of dollars into a single meeting with a stranger who will likely refuse a relationship with you. Seriously, these kinds of opinions about dating are more appropriate for courtesans who want a sponsor from rich unattractive men in exchange for their company, not for an average woman for dating an average man.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2025-02-16T23:10:07+00:00

It's degrading to be expected to prove yourself or to impress your date

I mean, most people try and present the best (or at least, a good) version of themselves when on a first date with someone. You're on the date to see if you're a good match and if you like the person, you'll want them to think highly of you. If you think it's degrading to have to give people a reason to hang out with you, I don't know what to tell you.

Males should invest in you BEFORE checking to see if there is any chemistry.

Why? I wouldn't invest a lot of time and energy into some guy who I don't even know if I like yet, I wouldn't expect a guy to do so for me. We're supposed to meet to figure out if there's any reason to invest the time and effort into this specific person.

Its immature to not even invest in a $200 dinner date to get to know someone

Why is it immature? Spending 200 bucks on someone you just met is just a bad financial decision. And, if we're going to try to insult people here - I think that it screams "spoiled princess" to expect people to drop a significant amount of money to get to know you, out of all the people in the world. You're not special, nobody is. You're aiming to find a person who will eventually think you're special to them, because you have shared lives, values and because you make each other's lives better. If you expect people to treat you like you're the main character, you're going to have a pretty lonely, disappointing life.

As for coffee dates - I like them, there's no pressure on either party, you're just out to talk and get to know each other. If you find out that there's no chemistry, oh well, no big deal. I think it's fine if you want a fancier date but if someone offers you a coffee date, you'll know you guys aren't a good match without even having to waste your time on a date.

Fun_Breakfast697 · 2025-02-16T23:44:40+00:00

I always took dates to dive bars. If someone countered with coffee I'd assume he was kinda boring/probably not lifestyle compatible and ghost. The idea that he wanted me to "prove myself" somehow wouldn't have even crossed my mind.

I also haaaaaaated extended texting with strangers and would usually jump right to making plans, so I didn't expect a near-stranger to be super invested in me at that point. Would be kinda weird, frankly! Nor did I want to get stuck sitting through an entire dinner with someone I might not like IRL.

FromAuntToNiece · 2025-02-17T17:43:15+00:00

The lady whom I am dating right now met me for the first time on a coffee date. She wants to feel that she does not owe me anything.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-02-16T15:37:07+00:00

I still expect the dude to pay for my coffee, and most do

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Good_Result2787 · 2025-02-16T15:36:00+00:00

If one is dating for an LTR, proving oneself is a core component of the interaction for both men and women. I would suggest not framing it as degrading to do so. That said, even if one decides it is degrading, it is still a core component of why one bothers to go on dates.

It does not make sense in any other context to invest in something before you even have some idea of whether that is worth investing in. While I don't (didn't) treat dating like some sort of socioeconomic game or analyze it to the nth degree as some here are prone to do, no reasonable person would say "invest first and see what happens without any forethought at all" in any other avenue of life.

As for point three, I guess we just have different standards for what passes for immaturity. I can't think of a single date idea that I would say is "immature," it's all about how the activity suits both parties. I suppose if you asked someone out and they said they don't like mini golf and then you plan a mini golf date, that would be immature in a way. Otherwise I don't see any kind of dating as "immature."

Ok_Use7 · 2025-02-16T15:50:36+00:00

I don’t do coffee dates. I agree with points 1 and 2, however I think point 3 is dumb as fuck.

Money is no issue, at all, however a first date does not require a $200 investment. We’re all different with different wants and needs, which means we all date differently. There are no real rules to apply such standards.

For instance, a first time date over tacos and margaritas in a big city runs about $80-100 (at least where I live). There’s no real barometer to apply the immaturity standard to simply because my $80-100 dates work for me and my dates. It doesn’t really matter whether someone I’m not dating thinks it’s immature or falls below a certain standard. Again, there are no real rules.

Artistic_Speech_1965 · 2025-02-16T21:00:18+00:00

The 3rd point is a rage bait😅

In this topic everyone can do what they want. A man who don't want to invest that much in a first date doesn't mean he is a red flag. If the woman don't want the offer, she can leave. It's an agreement between 2 people

krmaml · 2025-02-16T21:42:18+00:00

What if the guy is really hot and wants a coffee date?

FunPoltergeist · 2025-02-16T23:00:09+00:00

I’m offended if a woman suggests coffee or to meet for lunch, it’s clear she doesn’t see me as up to her standards. Often it’s a woman who dates so much she’s meeting men all the time.

I met a woman that was a successful entrepreneur, multi million home, hot blonde, mid 30s. She said she met a guy for lunch, a guy for happy hour, but saved me for last for getting drinks at night because she saw me as the best option. (Women using dating apps to go on multiple dates in a day is not that uncommon). She stayed the night and ended up exclusively dating for 3 months.

This girl was rich and hot for her age, and she treated men who didn’t look that good bad. She made less attractive men jump through hoops to get a date. One guy she made him pay for 18 holes of golf and golf with her dad. If he did it that he could land date with her. She would show simpy messages she had received from men and laugh about it. This isn’t an outlier woman, women make fun of guys romantic advances, she thought she was hot stuff so she was kinda brutal.

lost_aussie001 · 2025-02-17T00:11:34+00:00

Like as a guy I don't mind paying for the first date & don't mind paying for a reasonable date at a regular restaurant ect. But nowadays I prefer coffee/ desert/ boba dates for these reasons:

It is a good way to filter off superficial/ shallow gold digger
Also it is public and casual with low commitment level, easy for both parties to walk out off if vibes are not right
Also you if the vibes right it can lead to more, ie going somewhere like the movies
Also going to the bar isn't for everyone, in regards to consuming alcohol
At the end of the day, it's the chemistry that matters not the activity of the date, like you can be stuck in a 12 course fine dining restaurant with someone you want to punch in the face or just run away from. Or you could spend a entire afternoon with someone you had coffee & walking around somewhere nice while having great conversations.

Superannuated_punk · 2025-02-17T00:12:54+00:00

If - god forbid - I had to get back on the dating market; I feel like a woman throwing a hissy fit because I didn’t suggest an elaborate and expensive first date would be doing us both a favour.

Coffee/drinks dates are great. You can extend them if you like, and if either of you aren’t feeling a vibe after half an hour, you can dip out gracefully.

I’ve done restaurant first dates that weren’t great. We both felt trapped. It sucked.

Restaurants are for second dates.

BonesAndStuff01 · 2025-02-18T21:57:24+00:00

I just can't understand why this doesn't apply backward. It's degrading for me to invest in her if she's not willing to pay for a $200 date etc.

Like how does the entitlement balance out? It's just bizarre to me that you think that's somehow just or balanced, it's completely lopsided, entitled and narcisstic.

Fun_Push7168 · 2025-02-19T01:45:39+00:00

It should be a fairly low investment on both ends when you're just meeting someone for the first time.

-SidSilver- · 2025-02-20T06:52:10+00:00

It's degrading to be expected to prove yourself or to impress your date

Never listened to a single word any man has said, eh?

hearyoume14 · 2025-02-24T20:29:52+00:00

Knowing date for marriage people changes this a bit. They aren't using dating apps so that does move things along quicker. One side of my family is at least engaged by 25 so it worked for them,

Dating is basically a personal job interview, especially for the guy. You have to impress them enough to get another date.
Investing in a stranger seems weird. I will say that telling the guy you are looking for a husband does make them scatter.
Why that number? Some areas don't even have restaurants where you could spend that much for two people.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2025-02-16T15:54:43+00:00

I don’t see anything wrong with going on a coffee date to get to know each other better. Where I draw the line is hiking or dinner and chill dates at his house (or yours) because no woman should trust a random man alone outside the eyes of the public when they are first getting to know each other.

Also skip the “ checking for chemistry” till after marriage because sex is a wife privilege and the man should be committed to you and the relationship completely first AND he should be providing the husband privilege of paying all the bills first. That is the real way to avoid men trying to lie and take advantage of you.

MasterAd6260 · 2025-02-16T15:59:25+00:00

Here’s the thing. I’ve seen a lot of attractive women get taken out on $300-800 dates for the first date. It’s actually very common in Las Vegas and Miami.

For average women- yes she will accept McDonald’s or Starbucks but the average man in this forum does not want an average looking woman. This is why I’m confused by the men that are unwilling to pay- yet they want the type of woman that other men want and will gladly spoil. Wouldn’t it make sense for them to date the women that no other man would ever spend money on? Yes. But they don’t. This is why this entire subreddit is always complaining about chads harem and hypergamy.

Most men aren’t chads. Which is why you can’t get Kylie Jenner to fuck uou after a cup of coffee.

missmireya · 2025-02-17T04:51:34+00:00

If a 40 year old man wants to take me on a coffee date, I will laugh in his face and walk away.

Title	CMV: Coffee dates to see if there's chemistry is a red flag
Author	Windmill_flowers
Upvotes	0
Comments	221
Date	February 16, 2025 3:21 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1iqug9m/cmv_coffee_dates_to_see_if_theres_chemistry_is_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-coffee-dates-to-see-if-theres-chemistry-is-a.1544050 https://theredarchive.com/post/1544050

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