CMV, Do you ever recognize that many men don't understand venting the same way that women do?

KirthWGersen · 2022-11-03T16:29:49+00:00

Lots of those phrases really are good for expressing empathy.

But I would avoid saying "God, she is a bitch/he is an arsehole", as that is going further than empathy and actually agreeing. It will be very difficult then, when the empathy has done its trick and she has calmed down and begun to see things more objectively, for you to then point her in the right direction.

I also think that venting can be very harmful: it can get you worked up rather than get things off your chest. It can make you double down and refuse to see your part. And it can hurt you when a more classically stoic attitude could give you equanimity.

Live-Acanthaceae3587 · 2022-11-03T18:12:16+00:00

I’ve literally called my friends and say can I vent to you for a few minutes. And they say “go on”.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-11-03T16:35:54+00:00

This is what men do too. Source: I volunteer for an active listening service, and about as many men as women call up to vent. (And you're right by the way, advice giving isn't a good idea in these situations and we don't do it.) Everyone can do with an emotion dump from time to time.

Gravel_Roads · 2022-11-03T16:05:57+00:00

Psh men and women are equally emotional, they just tend to show it in different ways. I’ve seen men cry over football and punch holes in walls because their laundry didn’t turn out.

(Edit lol judging from the downvotes, I think I triggered some folks)

Ohyarlysmiles · 2022-11-03T22:54:54+00:00

I honestly believe that this whole male/female venting thing has nothing to do with man/woman and more to do with emotionally mature versus emotionally immature.

Emotionally mature people spend about 20% of the time talking about a problem and 80% of the time trying to solve the problem.

It's the opposite for emotionally immature people.

Men and women can be emotionally immature.

Anyone who wants to waste time by constantly being validated in their struggles is emotionally immature.

pvtshoebox · 2022-11-03T19:05:35+00:00

Venting? Is that the same as “trauma dumping” and then demanding I perform “emotional labor”?

It is amazing how women expect men to respond to women’s venting EXACTLY as women prefer and also expect men to voice their own feelings EXACTLY as women prefer, and then also claim women have more emotional communication skills.

Side note: men learn over time that their “venting” is viewed as weakness, which causes actual disgust among many. There is almost never any benefit - it is ammo saved to later take you apart or simply disregarded. Women have very little compassion to solve men’s issues and will often trade a man with “issues” for one who knows not to voice them.

At worst, expressing sadness, loneliness, or anger can lead people to be afraid of any future extreme behavior you might exhibit and subconsciously or consciously distance themselves.

Women don’t understand that long before puberty, boys learn that tears get jeers, not help, from peers. We aren’t entitled to vent, but we are expected to respect women’s venting and be the big rock.

This bias largely explains why there will never be a large, visible group that can advocate for men’s issues - the whole idea is abhorrent to many and causes fear, ridicule, and political abandonment.

Oh, I am sorry, I meant to say:

“Gosh, it must be hard when people try to solve your problems when you would rather they just gas you up.”

qstro_mane618 · 2022-11-03T16:03:37+00:00

Women will get emotional men when they can handle emotional men. Until then they ain’t getting shit

HythlodaeusHuxley · 2022-11-03T23:13:00+00:00

I'm not completely sure I'm getting your main point here. My take is that PEOPLE vent this way and men have been dehumanized by others and each other that we don't do this healthy normal thing. So my friends know that they can bitch to me and I can bitch to them, but also we kinda process a little on our own so we don't give someone both barrels of the firehouse when we are gonna rant about some bullshit we gotta deal with. We also try to remember to sincerely say something like, "Thanks for listening man, sorry to rant, how are you doing?" And then try to ask some real question about stuff we know they've been dealing with and listen if they need to get stuff off their chest.

Men need to learn how to communicate this shit to each other and have each other's backs - and it's something I think we learn pretty fast if we do it right. Took me a while to learn how to do this - but its a really good thing - and all men generally are better about standing by a brother this way than anyone gives us credit for.

And this works for women too but I also don't have the patience for the other crap that goes with women's irrational heart and mind anymore. But I'm good with women too.

HuckleberryThis2012 · 2022-11-03T21:59:23+00:00

Bitch it’s not that we don’t know what venting is, it’s that there’s a fucking limit to how often we’re going to hear someone bitch about the same shit day after day without telling them to try to fix the shit. Stop making me miserable with your constant negativity if you’re not trying to make the situation better. Also don’t start some “advice” with “most men are fucking clueless” the arrogance of that statement is hilarious.

scottandcoke · 2022-11-03T16:16:47+00:00

Venting is super useful. The problem is when you have no filter and think other people are a resource for you to unburden your anxieties/anger onto.

Women tend to not filter what they say so everything they feeling comes spewing out every time. That's why they get labelled moany / negative.

Men have too much of a filter which is why they get called emotionally repressed / lonely / unable to connect.

Somewhere in the middle is best, vent if you need but be aware of how the other person is feeling and whether they have the emotional bandwidth to deal with it.

Also make a plan how you can improve your situation regardless of the actions of others.

If all you do is moan but take no steps to improve your situation people become less inclined to sympathise with you.

And/or just get a therapist if you can afford it.

statsfodder · 2022-11-03T22:19:02+00:00

Why can't women understand that if they tell their man about a problem he will want to fix it?? Why it always has to be men who are "fucking clueless" ... y'all are pretty clueless if you want to cry and carry on about a splinter in foot and then get angry when the person who cares about you suggests pulling it out..

Crying about a problem and getting angry when someone suggests fixing is the irrational part in this.. women need to stop doing this .

peachycreaam · 2022-11-03T23:03:14+00:00

I think it’s more of a personality type issue. I could never vent to my mother about anything without a “fix it” reaction or just blaming me for whatever I was venting about. And I know other women like that too.

ex_red_black_piller · 2022-11-04T00:05:08+00:00

Are women OK with their man venting? No? Yeah that's what I thought.

Get a therapist. Partners are useless for this kinda thing.

alexaxl · 2022-11-04T03:05:43+00:00

Go pay a therapist. Go meditate.

Find a way to dissipate and release. Not dump on another person who have their own challenges and stresses.

Dumping your heavynesss on another person is not kosher.

Over indulgence in venting and ranting doesn’t help really..

Learn to deal with it, without corrupting and off loading on someone else.

Here’s a comment I made related to meditation and release of internals so that one gets lighter.

Bit more detail on another comment on this thread..

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mindfulness/comments/ykf0yi/why_dont_you_meditate_as_often_as_you_want_whats/iuzb0ev/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3

Ducks_Are_Watching · 2022-11-03T18:47:40+00:00

I agree with the sentiment overall, but this:

Sister "Sally in the office is such a fuckin bitch because of a,b,c,d".....

Even if you completely disagree with the assessment and you think your sister is the issue (or something else is) your job is to empathize

"God, yeah she's a bitch, I can see why that's so upsetting"

I refuse to do that. Enabling bad behavior isn't doing anyone any favors. A true friend/ brother/ partner will have your back, but will always call you out when needed. Being a yes man isn't being supportive.

jegforstaarikke · 2022-11-03T16:18:20+00:00

Crying as well. Many men understandably takes someone crying as “their world just fell apart” and ocerpathologize it when women cry, or thinking they’re crying to cause a scene or be manipulative. But many women cry for extremely benign reasons that don’t mean much at all, similar to swearing when you stub your toe. Trans women also often say that they spontaneously and uncontrollably cried much more often after hormone therapy.

FrostieTheSnowman · 2022-11-04T04:20:54+00:00

I'mma keep it real with you, chief. I'm a peer support specialist, so active listening is literally my job, but I'll be damned if I shack up with someone who can't handle a, "Honey, that's rough, but I'm kinda tapped out right now. Can we just watch a movie for now?"

And I'm sure as hell not going to agree with completely unreasonable crap, or gas her up for bitching about her coworker Sarah, who probably didn't even realize there was a problem. If it goes on for too long, I'm gonna say, "That's tough, maybe you should talk to Sarah about that."

There's probably a reason I'm single. But damn it, venting should occupy a relatively small amount of my day–I'm not going to listen to it for all my waking hours that I'm with someone. Been there, done that, bought the jacket... fuck that.

EDIT: To be clear, I don't entirely disagree with you or anything, I just detest the idea that I need to completely shift my own way of thinking and doing things, rather than meeting somewhere in the middle. Which, tbh, is the message we men usually receive on this sort of topic.

FFTzzz · 2022-11-03T16:59:34+00:00

Some simple phrases to respond with when listening to venting

How about the phrase: "STFU and learn to vent internally like men are conditioned to do if you do not a man's advice, help and emotional involvement."

Think_History_5682 · 2022-11-03T20:17:39+00:00

Men and women are different our brains are wired differently... It's not that we're incapable.. As you see above we're designed to be fighters warriors providers hunters

Womens brains are designed to nurture and raise children and families.

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2022-11-03T23:13:27+00:00

The issue is that women are not telling me to be more supportive with womens emotional venting, they are telling men that's how they should be showing their emotional (because only toxic men can't)

It's a 10th level gaslighting action.

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2022-11-03T16:31:22+00:00

Women don't have any incentive to fix their problems because they like drama. CMV.

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slobcat1337 · 2022-11-03T22:16:45+00:00

This is such bullshit. My job isn’t anything. I’m gonna be real to whoever I’m speaking to regardless of gender. If I think they’re being unreasonable I’ll say, if I legit agree I’ll also say. What is this shit.

RRBeachFG2 · 2022-11-04T13:27:31+00:00

Copium irl

pearllovespink · 2022-11-03T18:18:28+00:00

You’re dealing with an immature woman. When I vent I want advice and some criticism on what to do. As someone also stated, men do the same thing and will also get upset when you try to come up with a solution. Some men don’t like being wrong or feel some type of way when a woman is right. This has absolutely nothing to do with gender but someone’s maturity level and character.

ReferenceImpossible2 · 2022-11-03T20:41:24+00:00

Lol why do people of EITHER gender need to vent though? Why can’t people just handle their own shit and not push their own problems onto other people?

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henrycatalina · 2022-11-04T00:33:43+00:00

There is a boundary. My wife goes from venting to insults. Her stress is a long sequential series of criticism and how I'm a disappointment. You want an FU from a man, show disrespect, and resentment. Venting is understood, and I'll listen to that.

IWillKeepYourSecret · 2022-11-04T01:59:38+00:00

Woman here. I definitely agree with the general thread.

My closest friend group mainly consists of "feminine" men. They don't follow the cultural rule of being a "strong, unemotional manly man." They listen and vent about whatever it is that bothers them.

My boyfriend is the opposite. He believes sadness is weakness, and you'll always see him angry long before you'd ever see him sad. He reminds me of the men people often talk about in these scenarios.

What I've noticed however, is that he does still vent. He has more negative stories to tell than positive ones. When he talks about the bad stuff from work, he expects a listening ear. Of course I'm eager to listen, but I'm also more tempted to think in solutions than in empathy.

BF: "I only had bread for lunch again today." GF: "Why?" BF: "They were serving that nasty soup they also had last week, and I couldn't down a single spoon." GF: "So you're paying your job [X amount] every month to have them make your lunch, but they don't even make decent food?" BF: "Yes! Yesterday, we got boiled eggs. I cracked one open, and the white part wasn't even solid. It was all just undercooked sludge..." GF: "Honestly, you should stop paying for that stuff. The meals just sound sad." BF: "Yeah, I should. Those fuckers are making me pay for overpriced bread at this point." GF: "If you want, I can make you lunch instead so you don't have to walk around hungry all day? You know I won't mind, so long as you tell me what to make." BF: "Hmmm, nah. It's okay. I'm just pissed that they can't even boil an egg properly. It's actually disgusting."

The anecdote made my comment pretty long; apologies.

As the woman in the relationship, I've become quite familiar with the "problem-solving" insights of my partner. From the moment we got together, I slowly started fading more and more out of my friends' lives. To skip over the lengthy details: I stopped talking to even my closest friends, skipping birthdays and game nights.

The first time I broke down and told my partner, he got angry. He felt I did not have the right to cry about loneliness when, according to him, he had it worse. In a way, his solution to the problem was to try and minimize the problem as a whole.

Some time later, the topic arose again. His solution this time: "You should talk to your friends more."

I've noticed a similar trend among more masculine men in regards to their "problem-solving" mindset. It's often a simple 2-step plan that is theoretically foolproof.

Step 1: Have a problem. Step 2: Get rid of the problem.

If a friend turns out to be a bitch, then stop being friends.

Technically, yes, it's that simple. But the solution would only create more problems.

The nasty friend is someone Girl works with, and if Girl stops being nice to her, NFriend might spread false rumors about Girl that could make half the workplace turn their back to her.

So she should just go to HR.

And then nothing would change except for an increase in passive-aggressive hostility. Jabs that seem harmless on paper but have obvious bullying hidden underneath are used in every interaction.

Getting another job wouldn't be ideal, so she should just not let it get to her.

Or she should just not let it get to that point at all. Women are often overthinkers. 99% of the solutions men come up with either have no relevance to the problem ("If you're homeless, get a home." Logical solution without relevant help,) or have already been crossed off the list of viable options.

Upstairs-Rip-604 · 2022-11-04T02:58:27+00:00

Sexist fuck

caption291 · 2022-11-04T06:02:15+00:00

I can't empathize with someone that doesn't want help with their problem because it implies they don't really view the thing as a problem.

It seems to me like you're focused on telling men how to handle the childish behavior of women instead of telling women to stop being childish.

Everyone needs some amount of venting in their lives...that much is not childish. The issue is that women seem to literally just vent with no intention of actually doing something about it. It feels like they enjoy that the problem exists because they get to complain about it.

I think this post is a good example of what I mean when I say that women are socially unskilled but don't appear to be because they make the rules.

Impossible_You_8555 · 2022-11-04T07:12:19+00:00

I dated one girl who vented but she made it funny like a guy would. The problem is dudes vent but we joke around we make it funny, we are aware there is an audience.

hayhio · 2022-11-04T07:40:46+00:00

Agree EXCEPT as a woman I’ll add that there’s phrases to validate the venting without outright just agreeing with every opinion they have, like the whole ‘you’re so right, yeah she is a bitch’ thing— you don’t have to say that if you don’t genuinely agree. They’re not trying to be right, they just want to feel heard. Don’t disagree, but you don’t have to agree either with the actual words… it’s the emotions you’re trying to validate. So alternative phrases could be like “oh wow that sounds rough / I’m sorry you had to deal with that / I understand why you feel that way / that sounds so frustrating” or even “hey, your emotions are valid.”

Basically you’re not trying to validate the opinion (words) of the situation, but just the emotions underneath the situation.

Gilmoregirlin · 2022-11-04T11:13:07+00:00

I totally agree with you. A man wants to try to fix problems, so when he's listening he's trying to think of solutions to help you or solve the problem when really all he needs to do is listen and be supportive.

Title	CMV, Do you ever recognize that many men don't understand venting the same way that women do?
Author	MedicineSpecific9779
Upvotes	88
Comments	385
Date	November 3, 2022 3:58 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/yl6j21/cmv_do_you_ever_recognize_that_many_men_dont/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-do-you-ever-recognize-that-many-men-dont.1138263 https://theredarchive.com/post/1138263

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