Question for the 35+ crowd

AlmostKindaGreat · 2023-05-31T19:12:25+00:00

40, M, single

What are your impressions of the overall discussions going on in this group?

90% of the discussion is repetitive fighting to defend one's respective "team" (men vs. women, RP vs. BP). Around 10% is really interesting.

There are some people on here who have amazing insights. Most of these, for me, are "Purple" and have considered RP seriously but haven't bought in (or got out). They have a realistic picture of the world and neither make women out to be angels nor do they demonize them. Women are described as real people, unlike the caricatures that RP and BP make them out to be. Some of my favorite posters/commenters are men, some are women.

Other than that I get some valuable insight into what women go through and what frustrates them about men and dating. I don't always agree with the conclusions but I like to understand and empathize better.

I typed out some answers to the other questions but I decided I didn't like them so I deleted them.

Acaciduh · 2023-05-31T17:40:01+00:00

40, Female, Married.

I honestly don’t even remember how I found this sub tbh and at first it captured my attention as a fun way to debate current dating dynamics as I’ve been out of the scene for a long time so it was an interesting topic. However, it’s pretty much devolved into a shit flinging contest with some worthwhile nuggets buried under the lead.

I do think the rise of OLD has absolutely impacted dating as evident by a lot of the very frustrated single people here. However, I don’t think it’s to the dire doomsday prophesying as some hear believe. As many have said and as much of a cliche it is the biggest issue is touching grass (I know crazy). I have a huge family that includes many zoomers who regularly date, get engaged, have heartbreak and fall in love. The biggest difference is they go out, to parties, to clubs, to the beach and theme parks. They play sports or are in clubs, they have hobbies - some even nerdy ones to my old millennial eyes. They have OLD and even use it to date but it’s not their only way of dating or even better the internet is not the only way they socialize. That’s why touching grass is important imo it doesn’t literally mean step outside and you’ll be hounded with attention, it doesn’t mean to even stop trying OLD if you wish but to cultivate social circles and experiences with other people which gives you 10x better chances than just putting your face on a site and mindlessly swiping.

AhsokaSolo · 2023-05-31T18:19:03+00:00

40, F, married

I wish younger folks understood that dating sucks and it always sucked. A lot of the complaints are really just about someone having a collection of bad dates and then drawing conclusions about "women" or "men" generally. My husband and I are happily married, and we both have very awful and cringe memories of the dating world. We often joke about how relieved we are to be done with it. But we got through it and found what we wanted, so it was all just a part of life experience.

Also, I see so much of the problems in the dating world, which I think are mainly in the middle class, blamed on dating apps, and I honestly think it's missing the point. Statistically from what I've seen, even among young people it is a minority that regularly date via dating apps. In truth, I think a lot of the issues stem from young women being more financially and socially autonomous than they have ever been, even compared to my generation that came of age in the 90s. Women can have whatever standards they want on a much larger scale than has ever happened before. Of course there would be massive social consequences for that.

Motherofvampires · 2023-05-31T21:23:30+00:00

50s Female, divorced.

So many people on this sub are angry and dehumanise the opposite sex. It's very sad and won't help their dating prospects as it will seep through into their interactions.

I don't really have any advice to offer. If I were good at relationships I wouldn't be divorced. But I don't think the Internet and the huge amount of home entertainment helps people find relationships. When I was young you had to go out for entertainment. So all the young people did, introvert, extrovert, everyone. Because there was nothing do at home. This made it much easier to mix socially with a wide variety of local ordinary people and relationships happened more organically.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-05-31T16:46:56+00:00

39, M, married.

I find the conversations funny as hell. So many people who swear they are experts on what the “other side” thinks/wants/desires/lies to them about. But no real self introspection.

It’s like a tree house that went “girls against boys!l” and they never grew out if it, so now it’s a dive bar that goes “men suck and women are bitches!”

Only thing I wish is if they’d hear: “I don’t know why you think the other side got handed a guide book about how to act and be when it comes to attraction, yet you never got a copy: but that’s not what happened. everyone starts out completely inexperienced and clueless and the only way to get the knowledge and experience is to get out there and start socializing and chatting people up and getting to know all kinds of people and what works for you. Stop acting like the internet is going to give you a “cheat code for life”. It’s not. Go out and live it”

Bekiala · 2023-05-31T17:17:18+00:00

60, woman, single.

I do love that young people are putting their thoughts out there and debating. Many are, of course, way off in their perception of reality; however, I like that posters are exploring their own ideas. I hope they can develop ways to question their own beliefs although maybe some people are not capable of this and never will be.

Since I was young, there is so much more information available both good and bad. Sorting through all of this is tough and if someone wants to feed a bias it is easy to do.

I would like young people to understand how complex people and relationships are. Also I would like them to know that for many people those young years just suck. I'm not saying it always gets better but it often does.

WilNotJr · 2023-06-01T00:50:08+00:00

46, straight, male, divorced not looking to date.

There is no discussion in this sub. It's people shouting at and past each other. There are some commenters that are completely obstinate and simply cannot fathom other people doing things.

I wish the younger folk knew a couple things:
1 - As you grow older, your attraction to the gender you are attracted to broadens. You'll find older people more attractive as you yourself age.
2 - The more time you spend around someone, the more you'll find them attractive. Conversely, if you are catching feelings where you shouldn't, distance yourself and the feelings will fade.

I didn't have to deal with online dating. IRL approaches are better, anyway.

obviousredflag · 2023-05-31T18:16:56+00:00

39/M/open relationship

My overall impression is, that this sub attracts a tiny subgroup of men who share a similar fate in dating and mate choice dynamics. Following the current zeitgeist, they do not want to change themselves to get a different result, but rather group up and try to make this a social justice movement: the world has to change, has to be fair, society needs to enforce equal results basically; pointing out double standards in hope that this would lead to a change of behavior. They want a solution like with any other inequality problem that we currently deal with.

But it's impossible to change their situation in this way. Love and attraction is not a matter for social justice. It's discriminating by default. Some of guys here understand this and their response to it is to become even more bitter and to focus on revenge and power fantasies (the wall/purity requirements).

The younger folk should know that what keeps most men here from being dateable is their lack of socialization. Years of loneliness, no friends, no casual contact with the other sex, no shared experiences with their peer group, no one telling them how their cringe ideology they picked up on reddit or social media is not "the truth" but a way people profit of their desperation. There is hardly a way back into society from the place a lot of men here come. It would require years of close social contact with friends of both sexes. It would require making crucial coming of age experiences that might be forever unachievable now.

Young men, be careful to not get into the loner lifestyle, with only male online friends, not leaving the house, etc. You will get on a track that is incompatible with women, casual sex and relationships. Don't choose the easy route, especially if you are introverted. You need to leave your comfort zone.

What do you think they have to deal with that you don't/didn't?

They need to be clever enough to see through all of this red pill, manosphere, Andrew Tate, fresh & fit bullshit. They are sold a fantasy of what could be, or what they "deserve", that is absolutely unrealistic and only exploits them. They need to be able to understand that what they are shown and told on the internet is not reality. And i realize this is very very hard, not just for young men. Dangling the carrot of lots of casual sex in front of men is bound to make them run after it.

Dagenius1 · 2023-05-31T17:42:43+00:00

45, married man

Overall the discussions are both funny and sad. Sometimes y’all argue, in bad faith, stuff that isn’t in question in reality or practice. Sometimes the conversation is super adversarial which I don’t think is necessary. So many experts that aren’t..but that’s Reddit frankly.

What I wish the younger folk new is that it is worth your time to solve your primary relationship struggle..whatever it is. You will be better off for the effort. Relationships are important

Specifically to the guys, I promise that it’s worth the effort to spend 6 months trying to learn how to approach and meet women. You may not become Don Juan demarco but you will be so much better off.

Y’all have to deal with dating apps and social media in a way that I did not in my single 20s. I don’t believe in apps but IG makes so many people unhappy by comparing their lives/relationships with others.

Wish y’all luck

EverVigilant1 · 2023-05-31T17:16:39+00:00

52, M, married.

What are your impressions of the overall discussions going on in this group?

The discussions are more or less the same over time.

Men and women just cannot discuss these issues in any real meaningful way. men and women cannot even come to some sort of intellectual understanding of each other's positions and quandaries. Men and women are at direct cross purposes to each other. I'm continually amazed at most people's complete inability to even try to intellectually understand the other sex's problems. Especially, women can't even come close to understanding the plight of the average man (not incls - the average man).

Most of the younger people don't have the breadth or depth of experience on intersexual dynamics, and it shows in their writings. Most of you extrapolate your own personal experiences to the world at large, when you really just cannot do that.

Do you have anything you wish the younger folk knew?

I have the experience they lack, and the benefit of hindsight. But when it comes to intersexual relationships, younger men and women will make their own mistakes, regardless of anything older people say. I did the same things when my parents stood athwart the world shrieking "Stop!"

One cannot fully evaulate another person, especially the attractiveness and appeal of another person, until you actually put eyes on them, until you actually meet in person, until you're actually in the physical presence of the other person. You cannot fully evaluate someone from a profile, a written paragraph, and a few photos. You just cannot.

Men have to get out there and get rejected, and play the numbers game. That's still true.

Women still have to look good - keep your weight down, with a good hairstyle and good makeup, and dress well. That is still true.

What do you think they have to deal with that you don't/didn't?

They have an advantage in that they are able to use the internet to get information that was completely unavailable to me. At the same time they have to deal with a world in which interpersonal interaction increasingly takes place online.

They have to deal with a world where they cannot in the first instance use their own favorable physical attributes to their advantage. The deleterious effects of technology in this regard cannot be overstated. This is something that really has changed from when I was younger. When I was a young man coming into dating in the mid to late 1980s, there was no internet. If you wanted to get to know a girl you had to literally step to her, in person, and start talking. You had to use your body, face, voice, hands, and converse. It didn't matter if you were a "sperg" or an "Aspie" (Back then they just called it "a little bit weird" or "kind of off"). You had to learn. You had to do it. If you didn't, you'd be sitting on the sidelines and you'd get nothing. If you were socially awkward, you had to learn to be not socially awkward. You had to get out there and learn.

It used to be that if you were using any kind of media to meet a woman (the phone, a wingman, another person) girls thought you were weird. It used to be that girls expected interested men to step to them in person and strike up conversations, everywhere. That has totally and completely reversed. Now, if you're interested in a woman, you're expected to use social media. You're expected to contact her by text or DM or through an OLD site. It's now considered "weird" and "off" and "creepy" and "incl" to just go up to a woman in public and express candid and explicit interest in any place other than a very limited number of places.

Another thing that's changed is the number of places for men and women to organically meet each other in person for the purpose of expressing candid sexual interest. The only place you can do that now is in bars and clubs. Traditional nightlife scenes. All other locations are strictly off limits for all but the most attractive men.

Still more that's changed: The primacy of physical appearance for men. Women are making it very very clear that they expect men to be very physically attractive. Women are extremely candid and up front about this now, in a way they never were before.

Another thing everyone has to deal with is that there are a lot more unattractive people of both sexes. That's changed too. The single biggest contributing factor to this is obesity; the second is women's injudicious use of body art.

There's a lot more mental illness and dysfunction. A lot more people who lack even a fundamental understanding of how to socialize with other humans, in person. That's a detrimental effect of technology.

gymbronyc718 · 2023-05-31T16:48:24+00:00

Male, 42, married.

All I have to say is that your thoughts will shape your feelings and reality to a large extent. If you spend time in incel echo chambers, you will think like an incel, feel like an incel and behave like an incel. and that will remain your reality forever.

No matter how lonely you feel, understand that life can be enjoyed alone. If you learn to be happy with yourself and your life alone, you will be much more likely to attract a partner who would want to be part of your amazing life as opposed to a part of your miserable lonely life.

In other words, you are the captain of your ship. Take responsibility and you will find happiness and relationship success. It's what I did and I have never looked back. But even I catch myself slipping into irrational thought patterns when I hang around this sub for too long. The sub and all related FA, virgin, TRP and BP subs are all poison.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-05-31T18:14:49+00:00

37/M, married.

A lot of it strikes as me as very young, very inexperienced men/boys believing they know how things really work despite not really knowing anything (i.e., the teenager syndrome). A good bit of what they think and believe are things I believed or at least toyed with when I was a teenager and was trying to figure out girls, but grew out of it once I actually started talking to them.

There's nothing in particular that I wish they knew; they've been told everything they need to know, but they don't want to listen to it (except for "go to the gym).

One thing they arguably have to deal with is that women are far more willing to stay single than settle for a shitty relationship than in previous generations. That was certainly something that was occurring when I was dating, but it presumably is going to become more and more widespread.

FaradayBurka · 2023-05-31T19:52:58+00:00

51, woman, very LTR

My impression of this subreddit over the years is that young and inexperienced people gather here to sound wise, then bitter cynics chime in to "confirm" their misanthropy and everyone goes home sad.

captaindestucto · 2023-05-31T21:03:51+00:00

From a 44 M "celibate" loser (lol) with no romantic experience whatsoever... I've noticed an increasing number of long-winded, preachy thread titles with ensuing arguments that devolve into gender bashing and one-upmanship (I'm guilty of adding to it!)

Poisonous viewpoints, little constructive advice, increasingly negative, sad, and hostile. That seems to have gotten worse since certain other subs were closed.

Cobra_x30 · 2023-05-31T17:47:41+00:00

42 - M - In 3 Relationships

I think there is a large group of boys who are totally lost and need someone to reach out give them a hand. That used to be what the Red Pill was all about. Today I just see them wallowing in despair, which will not help anyone.

Younger folks need to understand that Nihilism isn't an answer.

The only thing that younger people face that I didn't is an economy that is harder to succeed in if you don't study.

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solitasoul · 2023-06-01T10:55:31+00:00

38 f,married,straight.

This sub lacks nuance and empathy. The conversations do not represent the majority of most people I have met in my life.

And I'm really glad my husband isn't as shallow as the men seem to be here. And I'm glad my female friends are intelligent,deep people.

It makes me sad that sex seems to be the only link between men and women here. I cherish my male friendships. I cherish the particular emotional or mental connections we have. They add value to my life.

Gilmoregirlin · 2023-06-01T19:52:17+00:00

45, Female, single. I think many of the problems that the men have on here could be solved by getting out and socializing with actual people on a regular basis.

Ohmaygahh · 2023-05-31T18:31:06+00:00

49, M, one sided open relationship with a bottom, mid, and top bitch. Just like butters from South Park.

My impression of this group is that many lack critical reading skills and really lack emotional logic, with a special void of emotional foresight.

There's a lot I wish the younger guys knew, that's why I'm here to impart my experiences and knowledge. Although it feels like I'm yelling into the wind, I believe I have helped at least 1 person out here, and that'll make the difference for me. I didn't have anyone tell me what was what in regards to sexual attraction with women.

Social platforms, from friendster> myspace > the facebook> insta > tiktok ; wow it has been an exponential whirlwind of increased difficulty for the young guys. I feel for them, I cannot imagine how infinitely more lost a clueless guy in this era feels. Just completely lost, and losing every step of the way. Like the way the TeeVee showed everyone a glimpse of the lifestyles of the rich, envy and ambition spawned in the lower classes. Today, dating sites and aggregation of Chad's life experiences have given a glimpse to the masses of sexually unsuccessful men how far away they are to thriving. And it has bred all that we currently see.

It's forcing younger generations of men to lose their childhood innocence earlier and earlier. The question posed for the 8 or 9 year old is, what kind of content creator are you going to be, how are you going to be successful in order to build your empire and organize your future sexual life now.

That's asking SO much from pre pubescent boys. It's insane.

On a different note, it has been intensely FUN observing how the future has transpired, many of the ills that are happening now I, and a group of my male friends intuited MANY years ago ( dingy NYC chinese takeaways and local coffeeshops circa 1995 ). It feels good to be accurate in long range predictions, feel like Nostradamous.

SeveralSadEvenings · 2023-05-31T17:19:30+00:00

38, F, Married

Based on my Gen Z relatives (a mixed gender and socioeconomic collection of teens to early 20's; some in school, some working, some in the military) dating and relating to the opposite gender is largely the same experience as it was when I was that age.

I think social media and apps are still a relatively small percentage of the entire experience, and all the crying about tinder/etc. is blown out of proportion by the Terminally Online.

The Gen Z girls think the apps are jokes and only use them for quick hits of attention before they get bored and delete. They overwhelmingly still choose their partners from social circles, parties, co-workers, school mates, study groups, pretty much any mixed gender grouping that they spend a lot of IRL time with.

They guys don't even bother with the apps, but there's more variability of lone wolves focusing on X. However when they do pair up, its from the same sort of mixed gender grouping that they spend a lot of IRL time with.

The dressing and tech have changed, but the nuts and bolts of dating while young have largely stayed the same.

I think a lot of the discussions and anxieties around here are prompted by dudes who spend too much time researching and not enough time just doing the damn thing.

For every lonely dude brimming with stats and youtube links to disprove the normies, there's a mixed gender group of kids getting together for a bonfire/party/hangout/day trip and testing the waters of flirtation, banter, etc. Just like I did when I was that age, just like my parents before me, etc.

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-05-31T19:35:12+00:00

I turn 35 next week so hope its ok i answer. Happily married for 5 years. My husband is great. He defies what is written here. I actually did a ton of dating using OLD. I met my husband off of okcupid when i was about to give up and not pursue dating anymore. I dated from ages 18 to 28. 22 to 28 I did OLD for 75% of my dates. Met my husband at 28. The majority of men here that post and comment are 1) too young to understand 2) entitled 3) too introverted and don't want to put themselves out there, like I did continually not giving up. It's a numbers game. 4) are emotionally and socially stunted. Society today is more isolating so the last one isn't surprising. I use this forum for entertainment honestly. There are a few here who seem reasonable. Wish they would talk more. The majority of woman hating topics being beaten to death here I don't see too often in real life and are heavily exaggerated. This forum really leaves out how location impacts dating and how chemistry (not looks) and compatibility play a huge role in dating and dating choices. The younger generation has to deal with more financial stress, I feel bad for them they have it harder there, and this will impact their dating more. My advice would be to not only use OLD apps, work on social skills and be honest with what you want versus what you bring to the table.

Anxious-Tailor-7182 · 2023-05-31T16:56:51+00:00

40,M, married.

Funny people who really like to invent artificial and not actually existing problems for themselves and then sit just sit there and stare.

Hoopy223 · 2023-05-31T18:28:57+00:00

Getting near 40, male, separated I guess is the term

The only time I find this forum really interesting is Purge Week

Otherwise the know it all bluepillers/feminists are kinda annoying and I feel sorry for the doomers

_demidevil_ · 2023-05-31T18:58:44+00:00

36 F single (but have casual sex) lesbian.

My impression is that most of this sub is about power over the opposite sex. From both sides. Women trying to take back power. Men trying to impose power.

Lots of the RP guys are very young and autistic and have been taken advantage of by older misogynists.

grendalor · 2023-06-01T00:11:35+00:00

55, M, married

Impressions

It's the internet. And it's a self-selected group, people who have strong opinions about relationships between men and women, and among the younger people especially, men who have struggled, or who are still struggling, in this area. But the quality of the conversations is what you'd expect on the internet. The places on the internet that have actual quality conversations is tiny, for reasons almost all of us are now very familiar with.

What do they have to deal with that's different?

The seeds of the current market were discernable when I was in my 20s (the 1990s basically), but they were seeds. Those seeds have now grown into large trees, some of which block sunlight, others of which have aggressive roots that suck up the groundwater, or mess with building foundations and the like. Things have gotten worse, over those 25-30 years, between men and women, more coarse, but it wasn't like it was not pointing in this direction then -- it's just that trends which were in place then are now in full bloom.

The biggest differences between now and then are (1) the internet, which dramatically changed information and knowledge about what others were doing (2) the smartphone, with everyone constantly being pictured and video'd, and all of this being shared on social media in real time, which again makes everyone aware of who the winners and losers are and just how far behind you are, (3) the vastly increased importance of physical appearance for men (it's more important now than it has ever been in my life, likely than it has ever been in history), which is reinforced by (2) above, (4) the rise of OLD (different from the early internet dating sites we had in the late 90s and early 00s, swipe apps changed a lot), and, last but certainly not least (5) the fact that men have continued a slide towards being the second sex in our culture, a slide that was already starting when I was young, but really took on momentum in the new milennium, and looks to be a durable trend, and this is having a massive impact on dating and mating in our culture.

I have a son who is a zoomer, mid-20s now. I've seen the younger dating world through his eyes, and it seems pretty dicey to me. He kind of made his own choice several years ago to go down the path of getting other passports he was entitled to get, and plan on living overseas (we're from the US) after being finished with his degrees, which he has now done (not on my advice, mind you, although I'm fine with his decision all the same). One of his main motives was avoiding the dating market here. It wasn't that he had issues getting dates, he didn't, but he didn't like the quality compared to what he was seeing in his experiences overseas during his school breaks, and so he has kind of become a young version of the "Passport Bro" I guess. In his dating life he mostly meets women online, although he's in different markets than most of the people here, and a lot of it is through networking groups rather than classic "OLD" type stuff, and it works for him so there's that. He isn't doing a lot of "walking up to women you don't know and chatting them up" type of thing, that's for sure. He's just one data point, but he seems genuinely happy that he is not dating in the US at this time, so there's that.

relish5k · 2023-06-01T00:55:30+00:00

35, F, married

I find a lot of the discussions here interesting and thought provoking but more often than not sad. I feel badly for the men who have convinced themselves that a woman will never love them, and that they will never have the experience of having long-lasting female companionship that is a lover, best friend, and life partner. I think they are wrong and are only hurting themselves with such a mentality.

I don’t really know many people in their early/mid 20s, just some co-workers who seem to be doing just fine. However I do see that todays landscape has a lot of challenges that were less present 15 years ago when I met my now husband. I’ve never used online but my sense is that it’s bad for relationships and mental health. The abundance mentality makes prospects disposable, and the shallow platform flattens out individuals.

I worry about the crumbling social fabric. More time online, less time connecting with people in the real world. Limited options for meaningful employment that provides for a decent standard of living. Young people leave home, hundred miles away or more, and then suffer from a lack of social support, felt especially when they have children of their own. This puts a drain of marriages, which are also losing their place as a centralizing social function in society. It all seems rather bleak, and while I understand frustration, giving into nihilism isn’t the answer either.

NefariousNaz · 2023-06-01T01:10:29+00:00

36 male married.

I see a lot of delusion from both sides of debate.

There's definitely less sympathy towards lonely men and a tendency to blame them for their predicament or even suggest that they deserve it or are the cause for their failings.

The truth is many men have little issue with attracting others, and they're not all good men, or even objectively charismatic or charming.

Something I would want young men to know is that no, the majority of modern western women don't care about what job you do or how much you earn as a prospect.

I think that at my age we had enough overlap that we dealt with pretty much the same stuff regarding dating. But prior to entire social media and online dating after you were done with school often girls would often date male friends that remained in touch. These days they look at social media/online dating first.

Xennial3999 · 2023-06-01T02:56:32+00:00

36, male, single. Majority of the discussions are too black and white. Young redpillers need to know that a man's prime is not 40. I make 150k in the Midwest and I've never been so lonely in my life. I feel bad for the younger average men. I at least got to experience a time when It was possible to get laid without being exceptional or have some angle like being a drug dealer.

FlyV89 · 2023-06-01T04:06:54+00:00

Aaahh come on! I'm about to hit 34 can I jump in?

+33 (almost 34!) divorced and in an open relationship with two gals.

I wish young guys knew life is a lot easier at 30 than it is at 20. So many young folks are full of doubts, depressed, sad because they don't find love or sexual fulfillment with girls, or they settle down rarely for the first girl that gives them a glimpse of attention without knowing in a decade they'll be really fucked up in the head and feeling empty.

I've seen this with my friends, it happened to me...

You're not ready to commit to a girl at 20 dude, really, you need to go out and find happiness and a meaningful life, don't get stuck in a relationship, it's a waste of time.

KnightsWhoPlayWii · 2023-06-01T04:35:38+00:00

42, Female, long term relationship:

I really, REALLY wish there was some way to convince some of the men on here that the man’s physical appearance is a relatively minor factor for many (if not most) women. Sure - since the profiles on OLD tend to be so short and uninformative (seemingly by design - last time I was on OLD, OKCupid was the only one that actually provided space to write), women are generally going to just match with men whose pictures are appealing. But in real life, a winning personality - good conversation, a fun sense of humor, actual emotional connection- matter MUCH more. I know there are exceptions to every rule…but by and large, no one is pulling out a mental measuring tape to evaluate your jawline!

The other really major thing: yes, women are absolutely inundated with requests for sex. For most of us, this is actually kind of awful. Because most of the men trying to get into our pants don’t care about us. They aren’t overcome with desire because they’re dazzled by our wit, our kindness, or even our beauty. We’re basically just like fleshlights with bodies and brains attached. But - since most women do prefer sex/intimacy with a partner they trust, that leads to the classic “man tricks woman into sex, then never calls.” So, by and large, the intense sexual interest isn’t flattering or empowering, and in the end, many women end up just as lonely and disillusioned as men do. I get why this is like a bear trying to explain her knee pain to a shark…but it’s a shame that so many men here are so very dismissive of the female experience.

Edit: I am genuinely sympathetic toward the struggles faced by men - that whole “big boys don’t cry” toxic nonsense is awful, and there are plenty of other examples. But just because things suck for men doesn’t mean that they don’t suck for women, too. Honestly, I come to this sub in because I hope to have good, constructive, and enlightening conversations with the people who disagree with me.

mc0079 · 2023-06-01T13:03:36+00:00

38, Male, Married

I find a lot of these discussions mind blowing. It really is driven by terminally online people, easily swayed by rage bait social media, who think they know everything but know nothing. A lot of blame for external factors instead of internal. I feel like most of these discussions are akin to someone who read 3 tik tok posts about New York, trying to argue with someone who lives in New York about how the city "really" is.

I can't say this enough, Many people here need to TOUCH GRASS.

I wish younger people on this sub knew the following:

Everything Matters, and what matters to some may matter less to others. There is no one size fits all. You are the sum of your parts.

Socialize. Socialize. Socialize.

Hurt is part of life. It happens. Most Relationships will not work out. I've been in 4 more then 6 month relationships. Only 1 lead to marriage.

Socialize. Socialize. Socialize.

Recognize the other Gender as a whole person. Good Bad and the Ugly.

You can find ALL types of people who do all types of things. Sure you can find some weird person who wants to Marry Charlie Manson. Don't think that is indicative of the average person. Man Bite Dog Stories get published because they are fantastical and not the norm

Realize a Sense of Scale. They are millions of interactions a day, (such as flirting). Don't fixate on the couple of Tik Tok's that say XYZ.

I think the biggest thing I didn't have to contend with was that everyone has a soapbox now. People need to be better at filtering Bull Shit and Rage Bait.

EugeneCezanne · 2023-05-31T20:32:05+00:00

36M - cohabitating.

Generally speaking, I find the discussions here sad but fascinating. It's like an echo chamber with an incredulous audience. Half the guys appear to be sitting alone in dark rooms trying to Moneyball their way into understanding a world with which they have virtually no meaningful contact, and the other half drop in to point out how weird that is.

As far as thing I wish the younger folk knew: that talking to men doing amateur sociology about theories of women will probably never make you any better with actual women. Worse, would be my bet, because your own thinking is veering further and further from that of the gender you'd ideally want to relate to.

indrawls · 2023-06-01T01:00:43+00:00

60's, male, divorced

I'm your granddad but in a tech savvy, fit, free thinking kind of way. I think this sub is mostly guys who aren't completely buying the red pill, trying to make sense of the dating scene and women in general. Or maybe that's just me. Both ends of the spectrum are toxic, red pill and ultra feminism. Women get a lot of support in this world. Especially on line. Everything is yeah girl, leave him, men are dogs, you're beautiful. Lots of women can hide and justify their bad behavior in those spaces. I was looking for something that rationally supported the male predicament. Found Kevin Samuels and the red pill. I agree with a lot of it but the underpinnings are authoritarian, anti intellectual, and toxic in my opinion. Maybe I'm not the only one who found this sub through this type of reasoning. It seems to me that women rarely think about what they need to bring to relationships more than sex and beauty. But they have all these expectations and it's normalized that guys are supposed to jump through hoops to make them happy with bare minimums in return. My advice to all is to slow down, take your time getting to know someone. Heed the red flags, and be willing to walk away as necessary. Don't put anyone on a pedestal unless both people put each other on a pedestal. Find someone who will work with you and will take responsibility for their own actions. Discern and run away from sh*tty people! And never ever get any facial piercings. Please no!

Existing-Sign4804 · 2023-05-31T17:55:01+00:00

42, f, divorced with adult kids.

My theory on what’s happening here is that the majority of the people here are from the “participation trophy” generations here and that’s causing huge issues. These generations were raised by helicopter, snow plow and tiger parents. They were told they could do/be/have whatever they want. Their parents and teachers removed obstacles and challenges so they don’t know how to earn those things. So now we have two generations of adults who believe they are entitled to what they want (for the men here, that means a hot woman). It was a terrible message to give the kids cause the world is harsh, and very few people ever actually get what they want. Those that do, work their asses off to get it or are born lucky.

Compounding this issue is both regular and social media. Media has a pretty solid mix of attractive/average/ugly men. Brad Pitt (attractive) jack black (average) Steve buscemi (ugly as hell) are all big stars. But the large majority of women portrayed are extremely attractive. Add in the IG models who use makeup, lighting, filters and photoshop to make themselves way more attractive than they really are and this gives young men the wrong impression of what an average woman really looks like.

So now we have two generations of young men who have unrealistic standards of what a woman should look like and feel they are entitled to have that. They are extemely bitter now as they are realizing it’s not going to happen, their parents lied and they can’t have what they want. That bitterness makes them unattractive to women who really are on their level and they get rejected by them too because of it.

It’s a shitty cycle. No clue how they are gonna break out of it.

ErrprMachjne1 · 2023-05-31T17:49:44+00:00

34 M, eternally single but waiting for the right woman Tee-hee.

From where I stand the discussions are pretty base. It gets repetitive but there's new evolutions of ideas occasionally. If I wasn't getting anything out of it I wouldn't participate here. I can't say anything really bothers me about the people who post here often and I like that it can be a bit of a free for all at times.

If it was the way it is here in the rest of society we wouldn't have nearly as many problems. The women hold their ground just fine without being protected by stupid men or accompanied by screetching support women lol.

To the younger men especially - it's not your fault. You're not doing anything wrong. Society is against you, but you don't deserve it. Bond with your brothers and form strong connections. Don't try to change women, you absolutely can't and it will break you down to try. Find your tribe of brothers and build with them.

As far as what they have to deal with that I didn't idk. The narcissim of women on full display and never questioned, the complete mind control of their ability to even form opinions contradictory to the narrative. It's thought cancelling and horrible for them. That's the other reason I post here and have been. I feel obligated to do my little useless part and push back against this bullshit for the young men I see suffering. I wish during my years of suffering alone anyone had protected me, and now I have a chance to give a little back in a place where it might be beneficial to just a few people who need to hear and understand it most.

Fuck the way this society and women treat men. Men should be disgusted with the state of the world and feel it's ok to do so. The modern "men" who are supporting, condoning and reinforcing womens narcissim and histrionic greed are absolutely bitch ass and not supporting the young men like they need to be. They are possibly the worst betrayers of all because at least they can understand the damage they are doing whereas we don't expect that sort of cogntive capacity, reality consensus, or compassion from women at all in the first place, we only expect it from grown adults.

wtknight · 2023-05-31T17:37:27+00:00

The young men are lazier and act more entitled. The young women have higher standards and act more entitled. Everyone whines way too much now. The internet has made everyone expect more than what they probably deserve.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-05-31T20:01:51+00:00

37, M, single.

My impressions

A lot of the men are inordinately obsessed with immature qualities, like a woman's n-count. A lot of the men do exhibit unrealistic beauty standards in that they'll rate a REAL average woman --- 5'4 160+ pounds --- as like a 3 or 4. A lot of men believe in 'game,' defined as making a woman who is not currently attracted to you, attracted to you via behavior. And there are a lot of people here who like to hot take blame men for whatever current dating problems there are.

The women follow standard scripts regarding how superficial they are in the initial stages of dating, irrational behaviors taken in the name of 'safety,' and how the quality of sex determines whether a ONS turns into a fwb or relationship.

I wish younger folks knew

That most of love is a choice. A mental one.

Racking up notches as a man damages you just as much as everyone says it damages women.

Nothing much you say or do matters in the initial stages of dating --- it's all just attraction + variance, with variance taking the dominant role.

Variance is a real phenomenon out of your control in dating, so don't take too much credit or fault yourself too much for whatever happens. Just ride that wave.

Being used for sex doesn't feel good for either gender.

What do you think they have to deal with that you don't/didn't?

An increasing amount of social spaces being hostile to men hitting on women, which hamstrings the ability of men to even learn how to talk to women in real life.

A culture that is increasingly feminine and accordingly, more risk averse, meaning more rejection sensitive. The number one holy grail skill in this game as a guy is just fortitude and shaking off the rejections. Once you have that, you've got pretty much everything.

AcanthocephalaNew947 · 2023-05-31T21:13:11+00:00

F, 36, LTR, previously married young.

I think it’s a bunch of young folks, mostly men who fell down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories no different than pizzagate and have convinced themselves they are more intelligent than the average person because they ‘know the truth’ when really they’re lost scared and confused which I don’t blame them, the world right now fucking sucks for young people. If a fairy came down and offered to make me 21 again but in todays world I’d politely tell them to fuck themselves.

I think there’s a lot of young men who don’t actually want to try but to admit that to themselves is to accept they’re the reason for their lot in life, that they’ve been affected by social media and OLD and shallowness and addictions of the modern world, just like everyone else, so instead they create scenarios where there’s no point trying and they’re completely justified in ranting on Reddit when they get frustrated about the urge they get to cum inside a woman, smoking a bowl, playing video games, isolating themselves and jerking to porn. All of which require no real effort risk or pain. They want the path of least resistance, but that path creates losers so what better way to avoid blame for allowing that to happen than blaming womankind.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2023-06-01T00:39:50+00:00

38F, monogamous w/ boyfriend

If dating apps aren’t working for you, get off them. If you’re a gigantic nerd who’s only hobbies lean heavily towards the gender you’re not trying to attract, it might be time to try something else. It might not be easy or comfortable, but easy and comfortable for you where you are. Complacency in your life is not gonna get you the life you want do you’re not happy with the life you have.

Learn how to be social in real life. Learn how to talk to men/women without trying to take them home or date them. Get good at the foundations before you try to master the tricks

Safinated · 2023-05-31T16:49:54+00:00

I see young people doing more or less the same stuff as they’ve always done, and will continue to do in the future

Also, more information does not equal novelty

EWE-S-A · 2023-05-31T20:47:56+00:00

37, Man, married.

Feel sorry and pity for youth out there.

The sad part is girls watched sex and the city, believed it, and now we are at this dismal place.

Feminism is poison.

Coolio_Street_Racer · 2023-05-31T21:29:11+00:00

Anyone who is 50+, you failed as a parent for raising this generation of women lol.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2023-05-31T20:17:04+00:00

41 female married

Crazy as hell

Substantial_Video560 · 2023-06-01T18:44:36+00:00

38M lifelong single and MGTOW.

I find the discussions on here interesting to read however some are repetitive and tiresome.

Being a futurist I especially enjoy reading posts about A.I. sex dolls/robots and VR porn.

TheGreatBeefSupreme · 2023-06-02T02:08:14+00:00

36, male, married.

The men here: they post some of most ignorant and misinformed shit I’ve seen outside the women-centric subs. They also post some of the most insightful and interesting stuff available on Reddit. Many of the dudes here post in bath faith and make transparent attempts to catch women out with stupid leading questions.

The women here: generally more grounded, but typically fail to form coherent arguments against things they disagree with. Will double down on their claims no matter how absurd or demonstrably untrue. They often ignore good data that is contrary to their preferred narratives, and resort to insults when they’re losing an argument. Most women here are arguing in bad faith.

That being said, the women (and men) who are here in good faith are awesome. Their sincerity is easy to spot and conversing with them is a pleasure. They usually tend to be a bit purple-pilled and wisely refrain from wholesale subscription to red-pill articles, while also refraining from wholesale rejection of the same.

Blue-pill is nothing more than a foil for the red-pill. It doesn’t attempt to be coherent, and often contradicts itself, but simply exists to take the opposite side of any red-pill argument. Whether the red-pill argument in question is true or not is immaterial.

You see this same phenomenon at work with the way people respond to Trump. It was either wholesale acceptance or rejection. Trump lied his ass off, but in cases where he was incidentally correct, people would contradict him just to ensure they weren’t agreeing with him. If he had claimed the sky was blue, there would be a NYT article the next day entitled, “Trump Says the Sky is Blue. Here’s Why That’s False.”

Title	Question for the 35+ crowd
Author	INFPneedshelp
Upvotes	38
Comments	219
Date	May 31, 2023 4:09 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/13wqfd7/question_for_the_35_crowd/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question-for-the-35-crowd.1220825 https://theredarchive.com/post/1220825

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