TRP and FDS both seem to really hate men and women, yet they still want the very people they hate

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-02-21T10:35:38+00:00

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Mrs_Drgree · 2022-02-21T11:25:56+00:00

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LondonLobby · 2022-02-21T12:36:54+00:00

Mostly because they’re not wanted by the other sex so they like to think the other side is evil to feel better. Then add the constant reinforcement by only consuming their media and lack of any real life experiences/relationships it spirals them deeper.

I think both sides have great points and can be good for self growth and both sides are also toxic in their linear thinking.

Mark_Freed · 2022-02-21T10:32:09+00:00

Hate is a strong word. In your worldview you have some beliefs about how men and women work. You see trp and fds say stuff and you think they are obviously wrong and the only reason they would say this is because they hate the opposite gender.

Let’s take fds. Do you think they hate men? LOLOL no, they love men. They love hvm. They wish more men were hvm and they hate how low the bar is for men, now normalised porn is, how kink shaming is not pc, how casual sex culture hurts women, etc. They are raising real concerns. They care because they want to date, marry and love men. They are idealistic romantics who were hurt.

Same for trp, most of them love women a lot. They want it all, they want to make her happy and they want to be happy. In the pursuit of that goal, they trp is striving to understand women. They have some claims about how they think women work. You can see debates about it in this sub.

Now how you respond to these ideas, it varies. Some men might believe these “ideas” about women and lash out in anger. They grew up with some unrealistic picture of how romance worked. I’d like to think most men who really understand trp don’t hate any individuals. They take it as a given. This is how humans work, hate is unproductive.

Now I’ve seen folk who have hate and they decide to “use” women. So it’s possible to hate fuck, it’s possible to spin plates, never commit to any single girl. See women as interchangeable, so there are lots of fish in the sea.

Why do they want them? Cause they are horny, sex and physical intimacy is a strong want. Even when they hate women in general? Well it’s possible to hate a group in general but still believe there are good eggs in that group. “Not all girls are that bad. I’ll date the better ones”.

I’d be able to better answer if you clearly explain what you mean by hate and link to examples of it.

ExtremeNihilism · 2022-02-21T16:11:15+00:00

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ChiBron86 · 2022-02-21T18:15:16+00:00

There are zero similarities. TRP fully acknowledges how much men want women. And their only goal is to arm men with all the necessities required to get what they want. This includes understanding female nature too, obviously. Which tends to get many panties in a bunch, but hey, it's reality (lord forbid women ever get shown the mirror). After that, it puts the onus entirely on the man. You didn't get her or lost her? Well, you were clearly lacking in some way. Now go self-improve! Accountability accountability accountability.

Something FDS has no concept of. They only want this mythical HVM, yet you'll never, ever see them talk about what THEY need to do in order to get one. Supposedly they're swimming in options, yet a quick glance at the forums FDS overlaps with tells you that's a lie. Majority are old, ugly, fat and unstable women. That explains that rampant bitterness and hate over there. Clearly they are getting no action unless it's a very, very desperate man.

In reality, no women with an SMV of 4 and above would need a "strategy" to get a good man. I guarantee you NO women you personally know who is 1) decent looking and 2) is a decent person struggles to find good men. This just doesn't happen. There's no shortage of good men out there who're willing to go to the ends of the world for even ordinary women.

So if you are struggling, then you are heavily lacking in areas that are desirable to men. And that's where FDS comes in. Old, ugly, obese, crazy women coming together to hate men for their miserable lives when the problem lies strictly in the mirror.

HentaiQueen0w0 · 2022-02-21T18:33:09+00:00

I find that a lot of the time when I post on this sub, despite not caring or being apart of any of the ideologies of the pills or FDS, I find that many TRP men like to comment on my comments and tell me that “You don’t actually love your bf” “it’s all fake” and other dreadful comments about how I somehow lack the ability to truly love someone.

I have had one decent conversation with someone, but most often it’s TRP men trying to justify that women are bad.

It’s sort of Tiring when you’re trying to show a narrative that isn’t “Hot girl has loads of sex with any and all men that meet her standard” and people still assume that’s the case.

And also apparently everyone assumed I want to date Chad and have Chad babies. It’s getting boring and repetitive at this point.

nicethingyoucanthave · 2022-02-21T13:37:32+00:00

TRP obviously doesn’t hate women. We talk about an “anger phase” where newbies, just getting over the blue pill may feel that, but established members don’t

Compare that to any ideology that objectively hates a group. Did nazis talk about “working to get beyond anger at Jews?” No. Of course not. Does the KKK talk about an anger “phase” or are they just perpetually angry? Does FDS ever talk about getting past their anger? Do peddlers of CRT ever mention moving on? No, in every case where the group is objectively based on hate, they live in that state constantly

PlayfulLawyer · 2022-02-21T13:17:25+00:00

In the case of specifically feminist deception strategy, I won't say they all hate men but most of them do, I would say most of the so-called red pill guys don't hate women, some do, but it's more so pseudoscience about female nature, combined with self-improvement in other areas.

The main difference is the red pill does not advocate for commitment under the overwhelming majority of the time, to have fun with women and enjoy them but to a certain extent, with feminist deception strategies, their whole point is to lock down a commitment from the gender they hate 🤣, if you're a guy with your shit together in life, avoid an FDSer type of woman at all cost if for nothing else your own sanity

tempaccc2022 · 2022-02-21T10:30:41+00:00

Trp doesnt really hate women. Its like, here is the truth bout women, improve and youll get laid/ltr.

Fds principles are fine. But theyre very likely gonna end up alone when their standards exclude 99% of men, but they dont know this and waiting for prince hvm.

LateralThinker13 · 2022-02-21T15:37:25+00:00

pretty TRP is a strict no women allowed thing

Nope. TRP allows women. But if you ignore the sidebar and just start ignorantly challenging them, they'll ban you, and justly so.

Son_of_Tzu · 2022-02-21T17:20:30+00:00

I kindly disagree.

The poetry is on WAATGM, not trp.

gordonwestcoast · 2022-02-21T19:16:12+00:00

Your characterizations that the RP ideology includes "women are evil" and "strict no women allowed" are just plain wrong. Sure, if you look hard enough someone who believes that can be found, but that's not mainstream RP. When you decide to look into RP, you will find that three of its core tenants are self awareness, self improvement, and personal accountability. How an individual incorporates those into their life is up to them.

2022-02-21T22:16:45+00:00

I was only ever bitter/hateful towards women before TRP or while I was still in denial of it. I also felt like I NEEEEEDED them and without them I was a failure.

Now, after internalizing TRP's teachings, I really enjoy women, but only merely want them since my self esteem doesnt hinge entirely on their approval of me.

Some men might come away from TRP with a worse attitude than mine. I can't speak for them, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that they still aren't having sex.

LuazuI · 2022-03-12T16:36:21+00:00

Incels hate women. Yet there is nothing they seek more.

KikiYuyu · 2022-02-21T21:04:51+00:00

My theory: TRP and FDS are just coping mechanisms for crippling sadness. As much as men or women are demonized, deep down they have the human desire for companionship. They can't deny that desire, but they can't abandon their coping mechanism either, so they live in a world of cognitive dissonance. People who are aggressively sexist are never normal, well adjusted people.

AreOut · 2022-02-21T14:00:40+00:00

TRP: don't hate women, they are what they are

Women: TRP hates women

:shrug:

Vtridolla · 2022-02-21T11:00:51+00:00

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Mrs_Drgree · 2022-02-21T11:40:26+00:00

This thread has been reflaired as CMV. Please familiarize yourself with the special rules and conditions for that thread type.

Sorcha16 · 2022-02-21T13:22:26+00:00

It's not that either group want what they chase, they just have no way to dampen their biologist and carnal needs. If they truly didn't "need" the other gender they wouldn't be so invested in monitoring and commenting on every little thing the other side does

Kilatypus · 2022-02-21T13:24:18+00:00

The idea of TRP and FDS was to strategize how to maximize the most out of relationships/romance/sex for both genders. Bitter people hijacked the groups to vent out their frustrations, people had too much time on their hands and a lack of professional conduct, and it essentially grew into the battle of two tumors.

mandathor · 2022-02-21T15:03:12+00:00

TRP is mostly about just getting women and to some degree mock women. FDS is about having even more ridicoulous high standards and mocking men. I guess both breed anger, but I'm pretty sure FDS is the less honourable of them with regards to judgement and mockery... TRP at least try to cater to womens wants, an FDS woman is just way too zealous

HumanSockPuppet · 2022-02-21T17:08:37+00:00

TRP founder here.

We allow women. It would be futile to ban them anyways, because it would be impossible to enforce.

What we ban specifically is mentioning your sex. We do this because your ideas should be able to stand on their own merits.

BadWrath · 2022-02-21T14:33:09+00:00

FDS has no basis in reality. That whole sphere is laden with logical inconsistencies and contradictions. The way they weave in and out if modernity and traditionalism when it serves their convenience… Their fundamental misunderstanding or just downright ignorance of evolutionary physiology and psychology… The fact that they see right and wrong, good and bad, proper and improper, through the lens of what appeases and bolsters their ego and what doesn’t - completely void of introspection and thus also, humility… I mean, FDS is an ideological jungle gym, a plate of spaghetti.

TRP is merely the acceptance of the observable dynamics between men and women. And I say this with all sincerity, TRP is literally just a regurgitation of long-studied and long-accepted truths about men and women, yet RP men are labeled derogatorily. “Looks, money, status” and women will choose partners and leave partners based on whatever degree and combination of those characteristics she desires and can obtain. That is remedial level evolutionary physiology and psychology. Look in the respective scholarly archives and you’ll find publishing after publishing that proves and repeats this axiom ad nauseam.

CFinCanada · 2022-02-21T16:04:29+00:00

It really doesn't matter whether a woman "hates" men or not. Women who think the world of them are still the most likely to be cheated on when they are pregnant, just like all women are. Working women who give men kids still end up doing the overwhelming majority of the childcare and housework, because men actually do less housework after the baby comes along to compensate for having to spend some of their recreational time with the kid. FDS women just want their money's worth if that's going to be the case, that men are going to take advantage of women's labour.

Male nature is what it is. Women who trust men unequivocally usually end up paying the price. PickMes never prosper.

DecisiveB · 2022-02-21T10:24:04+00:00

FDS isn’t about hating men, it’s about avoiding low value men. Can’t speak on TRP.

2022-02-21T13:14:11+00:00

Wet dick feels good. TRP still makes sense just angling for a couple minutes of fuckyfucky, discard, lather rinse repeat, whereas FDS has a much higher ask and much higher expectation of a long term commitment

AggroWeasel · 2022-02-21T14:23:54+00:00

Because want to fuck.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-02-21T14:44:29+00:00

Redpill is about self improvement and understanding behavior. Being fit, staying on your purpose in life, getting your money in order, having interesting stuff in your life.

Fds is for older, unattractive girls with serious entitlement issues who are salty that high value guys don't want to date them. So they do things like witholding sex and lying about sexual history. If the guys they wanted to date them actually wanted they wouldnt need toxic ass "dating strategies", because a guy whos into you will damn sure make it pretty apparent.

If all you can get are coffee dates you just arent that much of a catch girl LOL

AnnoxisTenebraerum · 2022-02-21T15:22:48+00:00

I mean, it is the matter of which people are attracted by both group. They are resentful towards the opposite gender, but the stakes of the game are too important to admit that you are losing. Romantic Relationship is still a game rooted in biological desires, namely reproduction and companionship, refusing to play is admitting your own mediocrity and choosing to live and die in solitude, which are not desirable.

PMmeareasontolive · 2022-02-21T17:12:58+00:00

RP doesn't hate women, but it's a big umbrella which includes different groups, some of which might view women unfavorably. For example there's the hardcore traditionalists who think feminism is the scourge of satan. Or there are dogmatic evolutionary psychologists who believe a man is only happy broadcasting his seed into many women, and so casual sex is the only true aim of men, and women's evolutionary strategy stands in opposition to this. These groups become identified with RP but are not RP in and of themselves.

Near as I can tell, RP has one and only one stated goal: to increase a man's sexual power and options. Everything else is just philosophy, with good points and bad (like any philosophy, including feminism and evopsyche), and is debatable.

CryBeginning · 2022-02-21T15:13:30+00:00

Um FDS is a great community that talks down upon shitty men we don’t hate all men we are literally just trying to find a partner that truly cares about us and doesn’t leave us to pay all the bills give birth to their child and do all the house work while still being the head of the household. It’s teaching women what they are really worth and creating higher value women. The only women that have turned away from FDS are pick me’s who were force fed the “independent woman” bullshit narrative that just pushes women to settle for shitty men. TRP literally just pushes you to be a worse man and find a live in bang-maid to take care of you your entire life.

social_mule · 2022-02-21T13:42:04+00:00

Because some men want pussy even if they have the women those pussies are attached to. Maybe there's some deep seated resentment over the fact that a group of people these men dislike control access to something these men crave so much.

Likewise some women want male provision even if they hate the men that are able to provide. Maybe there's some deep seated resentment over the fact that a group of people these women dislike control access to something these women crave so much.

EstablishmentKooky50 · 2022-02-21T15:06:28+00:00

I can't really speak on FDS because i am not familiar with it, but one thing seems to be true. Any time someone says the Red Pill is an ideology, people who actually know something about intersexual relationship dynamics (Red Pill) kinda know that the rest of the comment is nothing but argument from ignorance.

The Red Pill do not "hate" anything or anyone. It is an attempt to describe reality without the sugarcoat and the fairy tails. Some may accept that reality and act accordingly, while others slide further into rage and denial. The latter group of people may hate others. The cause of that initial hate is not the Red Pill though. The cause of that initial hate is the trauma they have suffered due to organizing their life based upon those irrational fairy tales from which irrational expectations were born. If trauma is involved its always prior to Red Pill, never the other way around, Red Pill communities do not "hire" members. If you are aware of Red Pill early enough, you can avoid suffering and causing that trauma alltogether.

If you understand Red Pill, you know exactly that it is pointless to blame or praise anyone else but yourself for where you are in life. Your results or the lack of them are the outcome of your decisions, always. This sentiment is not new, in fact it is thousands of years old. You can choose to be the victim of your circumstances or accept responsibility and take matters in to your own hand.

2022-02-21T17:28:59+00:00

TRP… both seem to really hate… women

I, too, can come up with a completely bogus premise so people can debate my conclusion seriously, even though it won’t merit the time or effort.

RedPill115 · 2022-02-21T20:15:49+00:00

The answer is that TRP does not hate women.

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Forsaken_Software394 · 2022-02-21T15:20:12+00:00

I hate working out but I still do it because I need to and I feel amazing after

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2022-02-21T16:08:43+00:00

Because some are heterosexual heteromantic, IMO.

spinsterchachkies · 2022-02-21T16:15:27+00:00

They both have members that go through a rage phase and vent a lot of frustration. I don’t know what TRP calls it, Red Pill Rage maybe? I don’t think either side actually hates the gender they date as a whole. However individual members in the group are scared of being hurt, or have been hurt and lash out and vent their frustrations in the beginning. (And you know what… maybe some individual members legit do hate, I don’t know for sure what some individuals think. We can’t know for sure what individuals think). But as a group I don’t consider it hate. Mocking on FDS and manipulation on TRP, I see as a group activity. This isn’t good behavior but it’s not what I consider hate either.

SmoothMorning5786 · 2022-02-21T16:30:45+00:00

Hating someone doesn't always stop people from being attracted or want to have sex with them. Hate fucking is a kink.

rolurk · 2022-02-21T16:49:07+00:00

Has FDS ever mentioned anything about self improvement?

handemande1 · 2022-02-21T16:59:59+00:00

They want grails. What they believe to be rare and positive qualities in a partner while being frustrated that most people don’t have these qualities.

afkawayrn · 2022-02-21T17:00:02+00:00

They both are shooting for the top 10% of each gender but most posts and comments are by people who are probably more around 50% in SMV of what they think they are.

2022-02-21T17:36:21+00:00

TRP and FDS are very different ideologies. TRP is female awareness and FDS is male selection.

Dogecoin_trader · 2022-02-21T17:53:13+00:00

Its almost as if sexuality and hormones isnt something you can just change on a whim.

studiocel · 2022-02-21T18:08:01+00:00

Its a self defense mechanism. Both desire the opposite gender but are scared of being hurt and taken advantage of. Most relationships are a combination of love and hate so its really not that strange.

jayval90 · 2022-02-21T18:55:41+00:00

why if you hate these people so much then why do you want them?

Hormones. Not everyone's hormones are in perfect harmony with their mental state. Actually it's probably true of nobody, otherwise why would hormones exist?

Also this question is kind of self-refuting. The deeper answer is that they don't actually hate each other as a concept. Only love could cause this much angst. The better question is, which unmet expectations are reasonable and should be met, and which are unreasonable and need to be adjusted? Where is the middle?

It's a perfectly reasonable question to ask, and I don't get people who laugh at others' pain. You wouldn't tolerate if it were trannies crying about being misgendered.

scwizard · 2022-02-21T19:02:41+00:00

FDS doesn't hate men, they just hate a certain type of man.

I've seen plenty of posts there where someone is gushing about their HVM.

Some of the woman on FDS were married and had kids with a man who really respected and cherished them, but who then died tragically young.

RealNiceLady · 2022-02-21T19:13:16+00:00

No one can win the battle of the sexes as there is too much fraternization with the enemy.

Synovexh001 · 2022-02-21T19:32:28+00:00

A quick analogy, in case it helps;

Imagine humans are asexual, we can reproduce without sex, we have only one hermaphrodite gender and there's no confusion about 'men are like this women are like this,' yeah? With me so far?

No imagine this; there's a morphological binary of these non-sexual humans; exactly half of them are born with an organ that lets them produce as much organic morphine as they ever need, while the other half are born addicted to morphine.

So one half of the species basically spends their life chilling, relaxing, enjoying being present in the moment, and the other half spends their day frantically scrambling to do whatever they can- protect, provide, give attention, give space, be dependable, be spontaneous, be sensitive/vulnerable, be tough/dominant etc. etc.- to secure their next fix. Not because they're happy about that, not because they want to be like that, but because it is a need that they cannot ignore.

Maybe the system works fine for most people- one gets protected/provided for, the other gets their morphine fix- but for some of the addicts too low in the social hierarchy, all they know is rejection and need. Spending all day craving deeply for something that half the people walking by could easily satisfy with no real loss to themselves, and the morphine-makers respond with either myopia ("Just don't need morphine! See, I don't need it, it's soooo easy!") self-affirming cyclical logic ("You want morphine? Well no wonder you're not getting it, people only wanna give morphine to people who don't actually want it, it's your own fault, you're so creepy") or outright sadism ("Hahahahaha! You're suffering and that's funny for me! Hahahaha!")

So, you've got an entire demographic of addicts with no positive experience with the morphine-makers, and no reason to expect any of the makers to give a shit if the addicts live or die, beyond what value the addicts can scrounge up in exchange. Yes, the addicts will end up hugely disliking the dealers, but that's not going to change the fact that the addicts are still addicted to what the dealers are pushing.

Does that make sense? I can be confusing so LMK if I should redo parts.

Phuxsea · 2022-02-21T19:34:30+00:00

Yup they're both hypocritical and failing. I see members of both communities keep struggling like their cults haven't saved them.

RedPill115 · 2022-02-21T19:42:35+00:00

I'm pretty sure FDS seek "high value men," so they don't hate all men. Like any Internet group though, there are the extremists taking things too far making everyone else look bad.

The equivalent in RP is a "unicorn," implying high value women don't exist so seems a lot more hateful, however the reaction to FDS has made me aware that the extremists make it look worse than it might be. Still toxic though I wouldn't want my sons reading it.

2022-02-21T20:14:25+00:00

You're completely wrong. Trp men love women. Why do you think k we have to go through an anger fraze, etc. When we adapt to female modern dating habits, we love women and hate them doing xyz. For example feminist lets do a pro slut March and stick it to our future husbands. Future husbands I hate xyz and am now angry. The love causes anger. Have you not heard of love hate? People used to tattoo it on their fists.

Heavy-Constant3197 · 2022-02-21T20:16:40+00:00

First of all FDS is way more toxic but yea even TRP is fairly hateful too. I think the FDS individuals or TRP that don't want to date the opposite sex simply become WGTOW OR MGTOW.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-02-21T20:27:39+00:00

As far as I know, what we call FDS is mostly contained to that subreddit. Thus, while its ideology isn't perfectly united or consistent, it is moreso than TRP's is.

TRP has become a much larger thing, and there is no orthodox dogma. Many who call themselves TRPers do hate women. Most don't. Many believe the goal of TRP is to sleep with as many women as possible under maximally advantageous terms with respect to male sexual strategy. Many do not. Many TRPers think it is just a toolkit with no prescriptive elements: use as you will. But clearly many of TRP's leading proponents have strong prescriptive views.

So it is very hard to paint TRP with one brush, making this comparison between FDS and TRP problematic, to use that dreaded word.

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-02-21T22:59:00+00:00

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emerald_engineer_08 · 2022-02-21T23:30:49+00:00

Look at both groups of people…there’s a few striking similarities lol

Wildhouse83 · 2022-02-21T23:42:46+00:00

TRP does not hate women. Men who discover TRP realize that they have been lied to their whole life. They realize how gynocentric society is and that women are not as wonderful as it has been told.

FDS on the other hand are spoiled brats who can not cope that men way above their league are not willing to commit.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2022-02-22T00:21:01+00:00

I disagree that TRP "hates women". Read on.

Many TRPers go through what we refer to as the "Anger Phase" because they are pissed off that the world doesn't work they way they were told it does, i.e. work hard, be a good guy and you'll win in the end.

Except that ain't how it goes, Mac.

Having said that, I don't hate women, nor do I think anybody should. I even wrote a top-level post about how nobody should.

Guys basically think they are playing tennis but it turns out that the other side is playing tackle football. It's neither good, nor bad, it just "is". You learn the rules, and play accordingly. Should it be easier? Of course. But it's not. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

2022-02-22T03:43:52+00:00

I don’t think TRP hates women as much as FDS hates men. FDS users legit hate men, make fun of men’s mental health issues, take pride in using men as wallets, see most men as trash/lvm. It’s the most toxic dating subreddit for sure

2022-02-22T06:49:36+00:00

TRP specifically doesn’t teach men to hate women. It reveals elements of female nature that are unflattering and opportunistic but we wouldn’t have survived as a species if women mated with guys who were weak with limited resources. TRP specifically teaches not to hate women for what they can never be and guys can have a tendency to idealise women.

dbz19 · 2022-02-22T08:19:46+00:00

They want something but they can’t have it so they hate it but they still want it

modidlee · 2022-02-22T13:42:13+00:00

"they still want (to use) the very people they hate"

1962_beta-simp · 2022-02-22T14:03:47+00:00

TRP does not hate. It is a amoral toolbox

masochisticanalwhore · 2022-02-23T04:22:20+00:00

It's about flattering the ego and spreading hateful discourse.

No_Regular1586 · 2022-02-23T04:32:45+00:00

This question gets asked every other week on this sub. What is so confusing about this? Sour grapes. They hate men or women either because they are projecting their insecurities "Women think sensitivity or weakness makes you a worthless pile of dogshit and a pussy so they won't fuck me unless I wear a mask" for the gentlemen, and for the ladies "Men only see me as a useless cum rag and will abandon me once I get old, they only want hot girls".

2022-02-24T03:59:48+00:00

They both want to mold each others to perfection

Title	TRP and FDS both seem to really hate men and women, yet they still want the very people they hate
Author	OfCatandPagan
Upvotes	120
Comments	423
Date	February 21, 2022 10:21 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/sxqatm/trp_and_fds_both_seem_to_really_hate_men_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/trp-and-fds-both-seem-to-really-hate-men-and-women.1103727 https://theredarchive.com/post/1103727

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