It's not that only men can be "shut-in" or "socially inept," it's more that being so hurts their dating success more than it hurts women's dating success.

KlingKlangKing · 2022-11-01T19:31:49+00:00

Yup. Social anxiety is the WORST thing a man can have when it comes to dating

SKY_ACTIV3 · 2022-11-01T23:33:06+00:00

No arguments here I think you’re right, but I’d put more emphasis on the type of socializing that leads to dates.

I know it’s a common refrain that unsuccessful dudes have no friends whatsoever, but in my experience there are plenty of dudes out there with friends of both genders that still don’t really know how to flirt or escalate. Or more commonly, just don’t approach enough.

And another note, I’ve gotta say that pretty much everyone in my generation has some level of social malfunction. Even the attractive people with active social lives can be quite awkward by their own admission.

It’s not a counterargument, but it’s an important thing to note here. It takes two to tango, and sometimes you have to be ready to downright carry social interactions. You can see plenty of young men and women online complaining about feeling “burnt out”, and I think that’s a big reason why.

kinhk · 2022-11-01T19:41:52+00:00

Best post I've seen in a while. Guys can't afford to be "socially awkward" or unfunny. Not if you want to get laid that is.

nicethingyoucanthave · 2022-11-01T23:19:46+00:00

hurts men's dating success more than it hurts women's dating success.

This depends on how you define "dating success" - it'd be pretty myopic to define them both the same way.

Success for a man is mere interest from a woman. But success for a woman is commitment from a man.

There are a scary lot of women out there who are abject failures but they haven't noticed yet.

Being socially inept hurts men because men must initiate, and because women find social competence attractive - thus, these men aren't attractive and they get no interest. Being socially inept hurts women because it wastes their time.

I can agree that it hurts men more though. Just wanted to clarify the above points.

Deranged_Loner · 2022-11-02T02:09:09+00:00

I don't think anyone would disagree with you on this.
Shy girls/women actually have appeal. See romance movies and anime.

Shy guys are generally used as self inserts and not as the desired piece.

InspectorSuitable407 · 2022-11-01T21:12:59+00:00

You’re not allowed to be human if you want to be an attractive man. The expectation of performed masculinity is always there. You drop it they leave.

happy-doofus · 2022-11-01T19:42:05+00:00

Men are the disposable sex. Nature expects a majority of us to die without reproducing. That's by design. Devations from that norm are atypical & probably lack longevity.

Our DNA tells the whole story. Roughly 90% of every woman to ever exist has reproduced. For men, it's under half. Someone who looks at that and concludes men & women are on even ground is someone with willful ignorance.

In my opinion, guys in the bottom 30% should go MGTOW. It's not that they're incapable of "winning", but there is a point at which the juice isnt worth rhe squeeze -- it's just a question of where that threshold is.

Sad_Top1743 · 2022-11-01T21:46:16+00:00

This is absolutely true and more people need to be aware of it.

It’s also why women with lame ass personalities still have social groups and bfs. Nobody talks about this enough but it’s a huge distinction between men and women.

Being a single man means you have to do more, women have to do more in some aspects of life but that’s usually to do with child caring

monkymonkk · 2022-11-01T19:43:50+00:00

I don’t think anyone would argue that social ineptitude isn’t almost a death sentence for men.

The only reason it is “less detrimental” for women is because men are thirsty and have low standards. A woman who is as socially inept as the male you described will absolutely still struggle in dating, but I guess she will have some men willing to turn her around and fuck her so she has that going for her but it aint much…

Being socially retarded, awkward, unconfident, and anti-social will be tough for everyone. Humans are wired to be turned off by odd behavior, that’s why a lot of people feel uncomfortable around autists

w1se_old_tree · 2022-11-01T23:55:08+00:00

You are factually correct, but I think you're missing the point

From what I've seen, responses like "women are shut-in too" or "women have poor social skills too" are usually talking points used by socially awkward lonely men in response to being blamed for their situation. If others are saying that they are lonely because they have undesirable traits and it's their own fault, the argument so goes that there are also women with these undesirable traits that they would be happy to date. Sometimes it's also implied that women being able to get away with these traits is "unfair".

Do I agree? Not really, I think discussions on whether standards and preferences are "fair" are largely pointless. This includes women's grievances about men's double standards regarding promiscuity. Just like how a woman being socially awkward typically isn't as off-putting to a man as vice versa, promiscuity in men is at the very least less off-putting to women than vice versa. So promiscuous men can often afford to choose less promiscuous women to marry if they so desire.

Ppdebatesomental · 2022-11-02T11:57:39+00:00

Absolutely true, but what always cracks me up here is how many guys not only admit to, but consider it a virtue, that they are “not picky “ like women are….providing she is hot. Autistic, unemployed, uneducated…we men don’t care! Is she young and hot? Then when they find themselves with an antisocial personality? Women bad. And women are the ones with no agency or accountability

itzReborn · 2022-11-01T22:02:27+00:00

Sadly this is my biggest weakness as a man. I’ve complained about having no luck with women but the truth is I never even tried fr outside a month on bumble were I had subpar pics and bio. I want to date and lose my virginity (literally on my mind all the time) but I know I should take a step back and build friendships but nowadays…that’s probably harder to do from scratch then to find a girl to date

neetykeeno · 2022-11-01T23:22:22+00:00

Women who have poor social skills and are not socially integrated face the problem of being very easy targets for abusers.

Look, life's hard. We are all born with and grow into various ways of being that carry advantages and disadvantages. Relentless extroverts face the problems of how their feelings and behaviour tend to expose them to risk, and often have huge problems with frugality

I think one of the tests of whether someone is worth the effort of attempting to help is if they are willing to do things you point out to them that are quick, easy and cheap and offer small amounts of general progress. For example you could suggest to an antisocial shut-in that they attempt to gently cultivate a very slightly more positive relationship with people they see regularly...for example if they go buy a bakery item at the quiet local bakery every few mornings they could make an effort to every few interactions include a piece of mildly positive small talk such as noting what a lovely sunny morning it is or commenting on how lovely the glaze on the fruit tarts always looks. If someone who is well and truly stuck dismisses small cheap and easy ways to make a little progress, they usually aren't worth helping. They don't want to change even a little on their way to an outcome and they will drive you nuts when you try to help them.

Academic_Snow_7680 · 2022-11-01T23:41:33+00:00

womp womp womp

and yet so much can be done about it. My sister came out of her shell taking Dale Carnegie courses, I saw one course using humor to increase social skills on youtube yesterday. Women are attracted to men that have social skills and men that go out and put work into things they deem worthwhile instead of sitting at home whining about how bad their lives are.

Him being an introvert is not a problem for women, women date introverted guys. Him being negative and unable to harness his own power in his own life is a given dealbreaker. You wouldn't want to date a girl like that either.

AutoModerator · 2022-11-01T19:29:27+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

athlete2biz · 2022-11-01T20:15:25+00:00

sooo true.

Ok_Cake7513 · 2022-11-02T03:13:10+00:00

I mean, yeah. As much I love blaming my below average looks, being an isolated hermit is the biggest thing killing me. I have no friends, no social life, and haven't asked a woman out in over 12 years. Like come on, man. Sometimes I just have laugh at how deluded I can be.

Bdog5k · 2022-11-02T04:49:46+00:00

Interesting post to see after going through this thought process myself.

I always thought I had major social anxiety, was awfully awkward, and was not able to read people.

There was a little bit of truth, but a lot of it came from seeing myself that way.

I always had a mode/ flow state where I could be super fun and get laughs. Or I would monologue like a professor and get a little crowd ( just a few peeps). I realized I was actually a social butterfly and wondered why I struggled to be like that more often. A mix of judging people harshly and identifying as awkward was it. Once I stopped telling myself I had social anxiety and ruled out a lot of people, it became so easy.

But as far as attraction goes, I think woman just have more things that turn them off.

fakehalo · 2022-11-01T21:09:49+00:00

death knell

Goddamnit, how many times have I looked like an idiot saying death nail.

Anyways, you're telling me women don't want to go with the angry anti-social guy incessantly talking about how things aren't fair in a never-ending feedback loop of negativity? I'm a guy and don't want to be around this negative shit either.

I see people here complaining about people telling them to "be themself" and it doesn't help them, I think the people saying it assume the person has redeeming qualities underneath it all, but if you're just a negative person they mean "work on yourself". Get out of this place, stop trying to win a game that has no winners.

If seeing women flounder somehow helps you think of the women who have their checklist of a million things their man should have that they never get, they're just as miserable as you guys here.

TonytheNetworker · 2022-11-01T21:57:49+00:00

I am currently going out with a woman who has vitiligo on her face and body which makes her feel extremely self-conscious about being outside. She also has a lisp and is very tall (just over 6 feet). I joked that if I hardly went outside as she did I would never get a date as it would result in me being invisible. I have to be as visible and attractive as humanly possible to get the greatest success with modern women. Because she has a big butt and guys would fuck anything she can hardly go outside and still find someone who wants her.

2022-11-01T23:47:45+00:00

losers are gods gift to the hub

WilliamWyattD · 2022-11-02T00:05:57+00:00

Women are more selective. And they have a wider net of criteria. Men focus on youthful beauty.

So yeah, being disadvantaged at anything other than beauty is gonna impact men more than women.

Makaveli676 · 2022-11-02T17:03:09+00:00

I’d say shyness has polarizing effects on women & men. Being shy is extremely attractive for women, probably more attractive than a women who is outgoing (IMO). But you already know the effects it has on men, failure.

badsign12 · 2022-11-02T20:05:37+00:00

That men pay a higher price than women do for being awkward rings true. The solution, to learn social skills, is almost axiomatic, so true again. The attribution, that men who struggle do so because they don't want to not struggle, is sometimes not true.

Socializing comes with headaches. We all have headaches. Some people have more than their share because they won't do some common sense things like prioritizing sleep, drinking less, eating better, etc. to control their headaches. Some won't take ibuprofen. This advice applies to them.

But some people's social headaches are like migraines. Nobody signs up for migraines. Virtually no one has migraines because they won't lift a finger to prevent them. It would be insulting to tell them, the people who most need relief, to take an ibuprofen or to get a good night's sleep.

I think a good % of people who are shut-in or truly socially inept have what amounts to migraines.

gjorgeborge · 2022-11-02T23:06:48+00:00

First pots I think you cannot really disagree on

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2022-11-02T23:33:36+00:00

Finally a post to have fun with! This is true if the criterion is relative to the male imperative and male desires; but a female shut-in generally will not benefit from it romantically unless she is physically attractive and can monetize herself enough to have the female imperative satisfied, which is what most of them do. I think the uptick of OnlyFans, etc.. is correlative to the uptick of neurodivergent socially awkward women, not in the sense that 'prostitution' is new, but in that socially awkward female shut-ins can even the playing field with their more neurotypical counterparts. For the majority of female shut-ins that will not have this luxury, they are are going to be average and slightly below, her imperative is less likely to be satisfied unless she works on herself in some degree. The degree she would have to improve herself to be in a proximity high enough to satisfy the female imperative depends on the woman, which I think explains the rise of /r/vindicta, Pink Pill, FDS, or female "mentalcels" and the other subreddits that claim their frustration is equally as painful to the males frustration, and that the difference lies within the difference between men/women and not the degree of hurt caused.

The women may be neuro-divergent but underperforming romantically relative her female counterparts, meaning her female imperative is not getting satisfied while her male autistic equals "is", and she is not happy with this male even if he is happy with her by implication of her being female.

Most of these women seem to all be LDR internet relationships and it isn't because there is an absence of men around her, but instead that her female imperative is being denied via her locality which removes her motivation to feel compelled to be with a male shut-in, although they are equal. Meanwhile, she can get companionship sans unattractive qualities in person that she avoids regardless.

In we are going to acknowledge the differences between men and women, then it seems reasonable to also judge female dating success relative to the female standard of it and not the males, because it will skew things in a manner to say that the male shut-ins situation is objectively worse because he receives no female attention or significantly less than, but to me in the evaluation of 'better or worse' or what 'hurts more' from an ethical standpoint requires evaluation of conduct, quality and character of the men and women in question and to the extent X hurts the female which to me highlights the incoherence behind the claim of it "hurts more" by being fallacious by false equivalency, especially if we are to accept the previous claim that men and women are distinctively different enough to make a difference.

I think you can strengthen your argument using "harm" instead of "hurt" and "success" and make some kind of argument for male loneliness being objectively 'worse' than female loneliness, and not with terms such as 'success'. And 'easier time' becomes redundant to the female imperative.

Like the male, she must make effort that is disproportionately more than her neurotypical more physically female counterparts, and relative to females and The Women this is considered sub-optional enough for most women to result to extreme solutions relative to the female imperative. Her best outcome she can get via the female imperative would be perceived as capitalizing on her externals, which is why many women in this predicament still outperform their male counterpart and still net some success, while male standards are lower does not objectively speak to the quality of relationship or life with said male that impacts the woman.

Softest_Nipple · 2022-11-01T19:37:44+00:00

True.

Thats where w33d and etoh come in. Give yourself a personality, don’t rely on these idiotic golden retriever personalities.

99% of these females sleep with the same pothead/drug dealer where I’m from, even if they look emaciated or obese.

NockerJoe · 2022-11-01T19:50:13+00:00

Honestly not really. A shut in woman can get on Tinder or something but statistically speaking most of them aren't and the women I meet off apps usually also have had reasonably active social lives. Shut in women for the most part aren't really looking at all and if thats the kind of person her male equivalent is most compatible with he's SOL mostly because running into someone who never goes outside alone to begin with and doesn't make themselves available.

If a homebody goes outside and hits up the social scene he's probably not gonna run into many other homebodies at house shows and open mic nights. Thats just how it works.

wtknight · 2022-11-01T20:22:27+00:00

This is somewhat true, because a socially inhibited guy has to make an effort to approach a socially inhibited woman. This type of woman definitely isn’t going to be doing much approaching herself.

On the other hand, all an otherwise socially inhibited man has to do is make a bit of an effort to approach socially inhibited women. This, being socially inhibited is not some kind of automatic mark of failure, and a guy doesn’t have to be Mr. Social at the bar to meet women. It just takes a little bit of effort and creativity for a socially inhibited guy to meet socially inhibited women. However, many of these guys don’t even want to put in that small amount of work, which is why they are unsuccessful - not because they are socially inhibited.

LowCreddit · 2022-11-02T02:50:58+00:00

Everything that is disadvantageous effects men more. Broke? Short? Stupid? Fat? Ugly? Bad style? Bad hygiene? Social outcast? A woman has to be an intersection of these things to make reproduction even half as difficult as being an average man. If I hadn't won the genetic lottery, I would have moved to another country or angled for local drug dealer.

GridReXX · 2022-11-01T23:40:54+00:00

Ahh the weekly dose of grid’s social skills posts

LuxInTenebrisLucent · 2022-11-02T03:30:02+00:00

Jesus, the pity parties here about how mediocre dudes with zero talents can't get laid and its just so unfair is making it seem as if being a loser is better than just putting your head down and being the best you can be.

Redditcritic6666 · 2022-11-02T14:32:44+00:00

Men have the social pressure/role to initate and therefore they have more to lose.

One of the few things RP got right is not to take rejection seriously and also learn from your rejection so you can achieve better success on your next attempt.

None of these views are being acknowledged or taught by the Bluepill.

--EndLessOrochi-- · 2022-11-01T21:32:00+00:00

Why is this not a CMV?

Few_Ratio5835 · 2022-11-01T22:07:08+00:00

women by the nature of society almost can't be asocial. there problems are usually too many people want to talk to them

Unhappy-Slice-5098 · 2022-11-02T02:37:58+00:00

I don't know how true this is, at least in smaller communities where women don't have many men to choose from, or don't know how to access wider pools of men. I have seen posts on here and in other subreddits about women going for autistic low-functioning men because they were hot. I think the incel in your comparison would get a date but not a looksmatch necessarily, if he hung out in the correct small town bars enough.

Similarly an autistic but hot, socially anxious woman may get her share of fuckboys but nothing more meaningful than that. That's not dating, that's a series of one night stands. Men who are at her level of attractiveness but understand social cues and are extroverted will never bother with her outside of ONS. This is my opinion.

ProperUgly · 2022-11-03T04:21:40+00:00

Waiting for a woman to try womansplain their way around this

Title	It's not that only men can be "shut-in" or "socially inept," it's more that being so hurts their dating success more than it hurts women's dating success.
Author	GridReXX
Upvotes	174
Comments	239
Date	November 1, 2022 7:29 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/yjilwm/its_not_that_only_men_can_be_shutin_or_socially/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/its-not-that-only-men-can-be-shut-in-or-socially.1138515 https://theredarchive.com/post/1138515

Comments