Why does it seem that blue collar and “average Joe” men have an easier time with female romantic partnership than money making STEM or forum guys?

AlmostKindaGreat · 2023-05-20T19:39:12+00:00

An overly analytical mindset and solitary tendencies.

People who are best able to think through complex logic problems, like programming, tend to think the world is (or should be) just as orderly. Love and romance are messy and don't make sense and it confounds someone who rigidly thinks everyone should somehow follow the "logical" rules they have in their head.

I experienced this and trying to explain it to people how I used to think, especially on PPD, I come across as super dense. See my recent post and responses. And yeah, I was super dense. I've come a long way.

These people tend to be loners, in part because people don't make as much sense to them and working on solitary hobbies is comforting because it makes them feel in control of their little universe.

No-Regular1667 · 2023-05-20T19:31:09+00:00

In my opinion, it mainly has to do with personality types and selection bias. Nerdy STEM guys are far more likely to be natural introverts and shut-ins whereas the average blue collar Joe is less likely to be an introverted shut-in. Career paths reinforce a particular personality type and create selection bias. For example, someone who codes all day will never be forced to interact with people, hence reinforcing a shut-in lifestyle. A blue collar worker likely would be interacting and dealing with people and strangers on a daily basis, which would reinforce a social lifestyle. There's other factors too, like the over-representation of autistic individuals in STEM careers, but personality type is the main one.

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-05-20T19:26:00+00:00

My speculation is that blue collar jobs are much more team-oriented with a lot more interaction with coworkers. White collar you might be alone in your office all day with just the occasional meeting and the meeting is not necessarily conversations that flow organically but a presentation or two main speakers with maybe a Q and A portion after.

You also mentioned jobs that are customer-facing (bus driver, train conductor) where you make conversation with all sorts of people.

It tends to make you better in organic social situations, better at talking to men, better at talking to women, more comfortable with it, more in touch with what life is like outside one's office or away from one's monitor.

PMmeareasontolive · 2023-05-20T20:34:12+00:00

I think blue collar jobs come with a built in social network. Comradery is a thing. One of my first jobs had tons of young entry level workers and we would hang out after work often. Now I work in offices with mixed age-range "professionals" and they tend to not be anywhere near as sociable, in fact they lean a little toward the anti-social. Pretty much their goal is to gtf out of there and not talk to anyone.

Preme2 · 2023-05-20T19:18:12+00:00

There are a number of reasons, but I would say time usage is a big factor. There are only so many hours in the day. The average doctor probably spends a lot of their time studying and doing research. They may enjoy a drink or two here or there but if they want to be the best at their craft, they’re putting in the hours. STEM guys put more focus into their studies, building work relationships, extra certifications and spend less time on social activities.

Also the STEM guys are probably smarter and spend their money wisely. I made this argument before but I think being financially responsible is a direct hinderance to dating success for men. Buying a car probably boosts your social status, but also could be one of the worst financial decisions you can make. Women, right or wrong will judge men based on the car they drive. She doesn’t want to hear about you saving money or investing or thinking about the long term. She wants to hear about the now. That’s the average woman. She wants an adventurous, entertaining lifestyle in her 20’s. If you’re not providing that, she’s picking someone else and there are plenty of options for her to share. Sucking you in to the pay check to pay check lifestyle. The American consumerism, materialistic way. Bless ‘em.

So yeah, there are a number of things you can say on this topic, but I think spending time studying and focusing on building a career along with being financially responsible will hurt your dating success. However, these men are the ones who get married and stay married. They may pass up on dating 100 girls, just to find the right one and pair off with her.

DerayRevan · 2023-05-20T18:34:58+00:00

First, the average Joe is different to everyone

What might be considered average to you will be above/below average to someone else

Second, as you said this type of men are more social so end of discussion on why they do decent with women

I mean l know guys who sell CDs on the streets with multiple girlfriends and also know middle class dudes who haven't kissed a girl in their entire life

To measure this is not rocket science, the average Joe just has more social time to interact with women that's the difference since we all know making money=sacrificing your time

Also disclaimer, decent with women is not having wives since we know women especially young/old look for different things

The older one's usually for serious commitment aka marriage and younger one's for casual sex

Also to measure their decency more we have to involve other metrics like cold approach,dating apps bruh it's a whole different universe outside marriage

But l would say marriage is the corner stone for some success with women but for men who don't wanna get married it's not success or decent especially if they got married before 2010

screechingfeminazi · 2023-05-20T21:24:27+00:00

Advantage goes to anyone who still lives in their hometown, or at least doesn't spend their entire 20's moving every couple years for college/grad school/internships/promotions/whatever.

Picking up a partner through broad social circles is just the way to go, hands down. Singles bars and online dating and cold approaches and all that shit is a piss poor substitute for actually being part of a community.

Blue collar women are also more likely to be interested in getting married and starting a family younger.

wtknight · 2023-05-20T22:27:54+00:00

First, blue collar average joe men usually have good social skills. They usually have a network of blue collar friends, so they know how to socialize, including with women.

Second, they also often have trade skills, so women appreciate it when a man can fix the things for them that they might have difficulty fixing (although I know that plenty of women can fix things themselves).

Third, while they sometimes have a gut on them, blue collar average joe guys are usually fairly strongly built, and therefore women get a sense of protection from them.

STEM guys often have poor social skills. They often have poor bodies. And often they only really know how to fix a woman's computer or maybe some electronic devices. The working class women who like working class men have little use for them. Middle class and UMC women don't usually need the money as much that a poor social skills STEM guy might bring to a relationship.

63daddy · 2023-05-20T18:45:31+00:00

I’m not sure studies back this up but it actually makes perfect sense to me.

We see more and more women going to college than men and more going into law school and med school who still want to marry up, even if they want to drop out of the workforce to raise kids. The demographics don’t support this however. The average Joe factory worker isn’t going after these women, so this changing demographic structure doesn’t impact him as much.

I also agree with the commenter that the typical blue collar worker is probably more masculine and isn’t as likely to become feminized as some of today’s white collar guys. (College guys are told masculinity is toxic, when of course the reality is women tend to be attracted to masculinity).

WildWook · 2023-05-20T20:10:27+00:00

Better social skills. If youre socially retarded it doesnt matter what you do its gonna be tough.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2023-05-20T18:29:35+00:00

because they're more masculine

just_a_place · 2023-05-20T23:46:53+00:00

Blue collar here:

Because it means we interact with the general crowd more, a LOT more, and with a much wider range of people and not just our own little social click of like minded elitist and disconnected asshats.

I work in HVAC and I routinely have to be on the field interacting with other blue collar people, white collar bosses, and everyone in between.

Since I am out there it means I get to interact with a lot of women as well. For a man there is a lot of freedom in the actual ability to employ our bodies in physical labor as opposed to being too cerebral which the majority of us would find stuffy and oppressive even. Which is why we do so shit poorly in school. The school system is specifically designed for girls and tailored to their needs, their behaviors, and their expressions. Boys a penalized for merely being boys and yet it's a total mystery 🤔 as to why we do so shitty in school and even shittier in colleges.

SwinginPastMyKnees_ · 2023-05-20T21:09:23+00:00

Blue collar workers tend to have more forward facing roles. They have to interact with customers and know how to make small talk in order to be perceived as likeable. Otherwise, their business can suffer. Contrast that with the average tech person who mostly deals with numbers.

Speaking with more people naturally gives you more confidence over time. Once you overcome the social hurdle of expecting everyone to like you, you're more likely to reach out to that attractive person and ask them out.

Makuta_Servaela · 2023-05-20T19:16:04+00:00

Because STEM guys are less likely to be in the social environments neccesary to meet potential partners. Once you're already moving around, like blue collar tends to be, it's easier to keep moving (hence why they could be working 9-5 and still have energy to go to the bar afterwards or do something else social and active).

If you're not already moving, it's harder to start moving, hence why someone who works at a desk all day might be less interested in spending their evenings socializing.

STEM jobs also require less social practice, where a lot of blue collar jobs require more non-forced in-person interaction.

Extreme-Nuance · 2023-05-20T19:12:31+00:00

I think a lot of upper class women have the "I don't need a man" idea, and they don't prioritize relationships as much. They don't need the financial support, and they have heard the "mansplain", "toxic masculinity", etc concepts, so they're a bit more critical of men. They may wait until too late, or they may decide not to partner up.

The lower classes have always needed to depend on social networks more, and they may be more ready to form a family out of financial necessity. They don't seem to marry as much, but they may form partnerships more easily. The women are less likely to have been exposed to some of the third wave feminism stuff, and (for better or worse) be less critical of men.

Lots of people aren't comfortable marrying outside their class, because it's a big drama.

And some of the men working in stem are working a lot. Too much to have a social life. They also tend toward the autism spectrum.

iassureyouimreal · 2023-05-20T20:27:27+00:00

We don’t care to impress. Woman’s happened to be impressed

Megsann1117 · 2023-05-20T22:05:34+00:00

Well I work at an engineering consulting firm (admin). I can tell you first hand that the PhDs here have no fucking clue how to talk to me, even when I’m talking to them about work, where the techs aren’t intimidated by me, and will actually have a conversation.

Now most of the people here are married or otherwise in a relationship- myself included. So when I talk to people it’s platonic. But the PhDs are generally lacking social skills and I think it’s because they have all been perpetually in school.

analt223 · 2023-05-20T21:53:08+00:00

Because men who went into stem are socially more on the spectrum

Royal-Tip4585 · 2023-05-20T23:31:17+00:00

They touch grass. Seriously being online all day and developing isolationist hobbies = no relationships.

imitatingnormal · 2023-05-21T02:15:00+00:00

Average Joes naturally have humility. It’s an extremely comforting and attractive quality.

Over_Noise3530 · 2023-05-21T02:59:11+00:00

Blue collar guys are more likely to drink at bars with women. And the booze might make them more outgoing

svarowskylegend · 2023-05-21T06:48:58+00:00

I go on dating subs where I assume people are richer stem workers and holy shit, their standards are insane. Not when it comes to looks, but when it comes to personality.

Joe has lower standards, he is willing to overlook more and the women he dates also have lower standards of him

Over_North8884 · 2023-05-20T19:10:01+00:00

Bubba doesn't bother trying to bat in the major leagues.

the-lone-squid · 2023-05-20T19:12:01+00:00

Blue collar men have awful divorce rates. And often end up dating lower quality women in general.

I'm not sure if that's "doing better"

harmonica2 · 2023-05-20T21:29:17+00:00

I agree with the OP as I am a blue collar worker and have had dates before and a gf currently.

angelicasinensis · 2023-05-20T23:09:54+00:00

If your hanging out and having fun (I have to say even though I don’t drink a LOT of romantic relationships start with alcohol/social gatherings with alcohol), your way more likely to meet people! People who sit at home and work and have no social skills are going to have less of a chance.

Eastern-Action1384 · 2023-05-21T01:02:58+00:00

Funny thing that blue collar men are the one with the highest divorce rate. Such happiness. Women just settle for average joe and divorce rate shows that clearly.

Chokeman · 2023-05-21T01:08:30+00:00

Easy.

Lower quality women have lower standard.

drok007 · 2023-05-21T01:12:43+00:00

They start to say it doesn’t count unless it’s a very specific type of relationship with a specific type of woman. Like she needs to be a 10/10 woman who doesn’t work, but is also insanely rich and doesn’t want a relationship but simply wants to be your fuck buddy or FWB, and if you can’t get that then it doesn’t count. Nothing grounded in reality though.

Mr_Chad_Thunderpenis · 2023-05-21T02:16:17+00:00

Stemlords are usually introverts, have poor social skills, and have higher IQ on average, which makes them prone to overanalyzing/overthinking and being afraid of taking risks.

MistyMaisel · 2023-05-21T04:14:28+00:00

I agree with lots of what has been said here already, my token addition:

Most blue collar workers start young (early teenage years if no small business is present) and grind it out every single day often with multiple jobs until they croak. That's hella respectable to almost all of us, tends to mean the dude is down to earth and connected to reality, and you can count on him not to be full of shit about his future career because he's already in it.

Compare that to your average STEM student, and most have never legitimately done an honest day's labor in their entire life prior to graduation. And depending on their course or study, that extended adolescence can go on until their late 20s to early 30s. Any career plans they tell are something they could be full of shit about. And it tends to show in how they treat others, take care of themselves, and their ideas about life in general.

It's also pretty easy to bullshit your way through white collar workdays, less so blue collar.

So by this token, I imagine they'd do better with women because they tend to be a lot less insufferable and more easily seen as hardworking on stuff normal people care about. Normal people don't give a shit about math or science really. Technology a little but no one cares how that hot dog is made. Medicine is the only one all of us would largely agree we care about. And that's the one that is most likely to torpedo your social life to making dating impossible.

Solid-Guitar-2728 · 2023-05-21T04:15:33+00:00

I think it is many things:

As someone mentioned, they are more masculine.
They date in their social class. They usually get women in their looksmatch, not models.
They usually were dating since school.
I think they are more social, they have more guy friends and such.

SteveSan82 · 2023-05-21T06:38:23+00:00

Blue collar types usually have better social skills. Stem types are often socially awkward

FourthHarbinger · 2023-05-20T19:24:53+00:00

Because they tend to be more physically attractive

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-05-20T18:38:31+00:00

When you are working class the path is pretty much laid out for you. Work, go home, work, on Friday night go to the local bar to chill, weekends family or drink and watch sports. Repeat. Finding a girl who you can chill with at the bar means shes living the life, her family’s living that life, so it’s just if you like each other/vibe/just wanna fuck. And keep living that life.

Shit gets hard as hell if someone loses their job or gets really sick or hurt tho.

NotARussianBot1984 · 2023-05-20T19:06:33+00:00

As a white collar guy, when I was in university, I noticed women raise their standards a lot. They see themselves as leveling up and want a man that exceeds that standard, hypergamy.

Add in that white collar jobs tend to be in cities, and cities have a larger pool of HVM than towns. In my farm town, a guy could only sleep around so much before he gets a reputation of it. But in a city, a girl that's educated, has her own money, with tinder, has an endless pool of tall hot men willing to sleep with her who she doesn't know their reputation as a fuck boy.

If I moved back to my farm town, I'm sure I could get married pretty easy. But no accounting jobs there. And I want promotions so big city it is, dating being harder is something I accept.

Ok_Tomorrow_3963 · 2023-05-20T18:53:44+00:00

they can relate to the lower average IQs probably

been shown that having an IQ over 130 is detrimental for men in relationships, and that's not even insanely high or rare

Lenovo_Driver · 2023-05-20T20:16:18+00:00

Guys who take themselves and everything seriously are boring, and I say this as a guy.

I have friends of all kinds, but my uni stem friends are just about the least fun to hang out with. They chose future success as a youth over being a well rounded adult and it’s showing. Balance is key.

The ones that went for their masters pretty much through away their young adulthood learning experiences for school and whilst the make good money they don’t really work jobs that have them interacting with women nor do they enjoy clubs or bars. There is a large cross section of guys who do this and spend a ton of time online as well.

learning how to show a woman a good time is how you get women. And the second set of guys you mentioned are simply far better at doing that because they’ve spent most of their adult lives doing that. That’s the biggest struggle of most guys - they don’t understand the effect of socialization and the impact it has on their sex life.

neetykeeno · 2023-05-20T21:43:09+00:00

Engineers tend to treat us as problems to be solved.

The quickest and least troublesome way for me to solve your problem when you have defined me as the problem is for me to remove myself from your life completely. Easy done. Bye bye. You can handle things now...I am no longer your problem.

Blue collar men tend to treat us as people who like everyone else, have problems and are trying to solve problems. It's just a whole lot nicer way to interact with a life partner.

Engineer: Girlfriend unit is making inexplicable whining sounds. Run diagnostics. States girlfriend unit is having trouble with one of her friends. Inform girlfriend unit she has more friends than I need her to have anyway. Why does this not work? Why do I no longer have girlfriend unit? Did I void the warranty?

Bricklayer: She's looking kinda cranky..Hey what's wrong babe? Yeah Jazmin can be kind of a bitch...hey we could go out to the tavern Thursday night not Friday night this week, give you a rest from her.

sweetestpineapple · 2023-05-21T00:50:45+00:00

I agree with all the comments saying blue collar men tend to be more masculine. Their jobs require more street smarts and common sense and it’s probably something that comes naturally to them if they grew up in a blue collar family. They’re more likely to do “edgy” things like get tattoos, drink, party etc because they don’t need to maintain a clean cut image or reputation for their jobs. Working class men and women tend to date each other, and the more attractive people have options across social classes. A lot of middle or upper class women are into these men for a couple different reasons. There’s the sense of adventure, less uptight attitude, and different/interesting backstory and life experience.

lolmastr13 · 2023-05-21T02:02:33+00:00

Naturally meet more women

BigVulvaEnergy · 2023-05-21T02:38:08+00:00

Average is sexy.

guccidane13 · 2023-05-21T03:01:21+00:00

It all boils down to social skills. They’re an essential part of life, but not an essential part of most jobs in the STEM fields. The focus is on communicating requirements and there is very little need to build relationships.

As someone who works in STEM, I see a lot of people in technical roles like myself undervaluing or straight up looking down on the non-technical people they work with, but they should be learning from them. If you develop most of the social skills that the non-technical people do have, you’ll have an incredible career. It’ll do wonders in your personal and dating lives as well.

satisfiedmind- · 2023-05-21T09:22:24+00:00

Simple answer to this one. Autism!

hexcodehero · 2023-05-21T11:43:01+00:00

um because they go for lower tier women? I live in NYC, i pretty much match with Ivy league educated women 50-60% of the time. They arent dating plumbers, no offense.

2023-05-21T13:27:58+00:00

Alot of women are fine with an average looking average earning guy as long as he's masculine. I live in a small town in a rural area, I see really decent looking women with guys that these red piller types simply wouldn't believe. The fact of the matter is that the looks money and status thing only really applies to shallow people. You want a decent women with realistic expectations? Get out of the cities and find a conservative women. I agree with a lot of redpill points for sure, but, they generalize the current state of women and relationships to the point where some decent men become doomers and think that having a relationship is some unobtainable goal. I can't get behind that because I live a very different experience every day.

Peanut_Butter_Toast2 · 2023-05-21T17:26:38+00:00

We're too self-aware and self-conscious. These blue collar normies aren't sparing a single thought to this kind of shit, they just go out there, bump elbows with people, and let the current of their natural instincts and naturally occurring social network guide them wherever it may lead.

Inabind369 · 2023-05-21T23:42:34+00:00

Speaking as a man who has worked as a mechanic and other blue collar jobs, but is also pursuing a degree in physics the mechanic job made me feel more manly. Getting dirty and the sheer physicality of the job did something to me. I felt like a man’s man leaving work in my grease stained jeans and boots.

Knowing I can work with my hands and fix things gives me a stronger feeling of competence than being able solve differential equations. Doing things in the physical world often feels more satisfying and boost testosterone more than stem work ever could. I get super depressed in school unless I’m lifting weights regularly or playing a sport. I tend to forget how physically capable I am unless I regularly use it. This physicality is essential to dating because there’s a lot of physicality to dating and sex.

Blue collar guys know how to use their bodies and strength due to what they do. STEM guys don’t have any innate physicality to their occupation so they need to find it elsewhere to have the same confidence in their physical masculinity.

Barneysparky · 2023-05-20T18:48:10+00:00

Autism and sexism are both rampant in Stem.

Bikerbats · 2023-05-20T19:08:29+00:00

Good luck with this thread. Every time I've pointed out that the working class isn't suffering near on the same level as the nerds, the nerds have screamed to high heaven. You've said essentially the same thing above, minus the word, "nerd", so it will be interesting to see how this is received.

I can answer your question though: I've never known a working class guy who lives in his own head, overthinking every step to the point of paralysis, but that seems to the be the near constant state nerds live in. Don't think, do, is more than a clever line from a movie, it's damned good advice.

Just look at the prolific posters and commenters on this sub. Every little thing is thought to death, researched to death, and then regurgitated to death. What's missing? No doing.

REDDITmodsDIALATE · 2023-05-20T20:37:59+00:00

Because STEM is mostly nerds. Money can only get you so far. Ready for STEM nerd downvotes but dont care lol

HazyMemory7 · 2023-05-20T22:44:05+00:00

Emotional intelligence is usually a pre-requisite to do well with women. STEM guys tend to be a bit more nerdy as well. Which some girls like, but it's more niche than the sort of girls that will be into blue collar guys.

bzl33 · 2023-05-20T20:18:06+00:00

Most of the older people at my work are married with kids (I work in tech), same deal probably for the older blue collar workers. The statistic often discussed is that the majority of 18-29 year old men according to that Pew study are single. STEM workers are a tiny portion of the economy, especially at this age range, so tbh this statistic mostly reflects non-STEM workers struggling to date.

I feel your question and the replies are a strange form of high school bullying, it's something I've noticed on Reddit and this sub: people for some reason hate STEM workers and assume they have some sort of mental condition. Anytime I talk to blue collar workers IRL, they don't have this sort of superiority complex that I've noticed here.

96tillinfinity_ · 2023-05-20T18:54:02+00:00

Because blue collar work is more sexually stimulating to women than a guy on a computer all day

A guy working with his hands/body will always get women hornier than a guy sending emails all day

Women get turned on just by watching an attractive guy lift boxes

purplish_possum · 2023-05-20T21:02:37+00:00

Women like masculine guys. Duh!

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-05-20T21:19:17+00:00

Because contrary to what gets repeated here, most average women like average men. It’s just that the average men who are more likely to get into STEM fields tend to be below average in terms of social skills. Not always of course, this isn’t a consistent thing, just a general trend.

hung out at the bars

This is bigger than you might think. Bars are some of our only remaining public social spaces.

sports on the weekend

Another opportunity to socialize and also good for physical fitness.

If your hobbies are mostly solitary or with a particular group of other single men who don’t have a lot of outside connections, that will limit you. Men who don’t go out much are also more likely to rely on dating apps, which are not good for men with a 70-90% male user base. In short, the average men who are more successful with women touch grass.

meteorness123 · 2023-05-20T21:29:17+00:00

Because unironically, personality matters and guys in the manosphere don't understand that 'good' personality doesn't mean being always on time or "oh but Im such a good guy". For women, it means being fun to be around, low levels of neuroticism, etc. Contrary to what people here say, an outgoing, average-looking guy will never have a problem finding a woman.

Rahim556 · 2023-05-20T19:59:53+00:00

Guys in the trades come from entirely different backgrounds. Trades, while good careers, are also "second chance" pathways.... They hire felons, guys who've been to prison, guys who had / have drug issues, guys with tattoos on their faces, etc. Guys that fall into this category lived entirely different lives before and are rebuilding themselves positively, but they also probably did well or at least decent with women before and can continue to do so even after cleaning up their act. Not all guys in the trades are like this, but it's far more common than STEM nerds, for example.

Zabadoodude · 2023-05-20T20:24:10+00:00

Because they are more masculine, confident, social, and willing to take risks.

I can almost hear pussies sealing up when redditors whine about how scary talking to women is because there is a .01% chance they will be falsely accused of something. Or how women don't appreciate sensitive guys who cry and complain all the time.

AngeCruelle · 2023-05-20T19:47:04+00:00

My father grew up in a similar environment. It seems that not being able to afford much else means you have to rely on other people to entertain you (i.e., socialize).

I've suspected my dad is on the spectrum. He had friends growing up but they acknowledge he's always been kinda odd. Blunt and unintentionally intimidating but all right once you got to know him.

Guilty-Instruction60 · 2023-05-20T22:02:43+00:00

Why do nerds have a hard time dating? STEM guys tend to have IQ with low social skills, naturally they have a hard time connecting with women.

AutoModerator · 2023-05-20T18:25:58+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

honeycall · 2023-05-20T23:23:44+00:00

Because basic people have things in common with the average person

take_number_two · 2023-05-20T23:51:59+00:00

I work in STEM (engineering), I’m female and work on a team with 3 other females and 15 men. Every single one is in a serious relationship except for one guy who is dating. So I can’t say I’ve experienced this in real life.

Fatwacker · 2023-05-21T00:39:24+00:00

Being social, working at something long enough to be highly placed in it's pecking order, and having large blue collar forearms can get you really far.

But other than the forearms part, you can do it in tech also.

RobDog101 · 2023-05-21T01:58:07+00:00

Evolutionarily familiar aptitudes and indicators of mate fitness vs evolutionarily novel nerd stuff that’s basically witchcraft (hiss) which is traditionally female 😌

Cynscretic · 2023-05-21T06:13:30+00:00

one problem in America seems to be rich men looking down on tradies ("contractors"). you're not egalitarian. Australia sort of is.

crow_in_your_garden · 2023-05-21T06:19:34+00:00

An additional point

The average Joe doesn't need to move to study or find a job.

The STEM guys move to a university crowded with other STEM guys, then move to a city known for STEM jobs...

In the end they have a hard time to socialize and are regularly moving which limits even further their social integration

WomenPickMen · 2023-05-21T11:09:21+00:00

Self selection:

A lot of "Chads" just don't care that much about money and just do whatever.

A lot of STEM guys get into it as a coping mechanism, revenge of the nerds type scenario.

PenOrganic2956 · 2023-05-21T12:27:55+00:00

Stem guys probably have a bit of austism

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2023-05-21T15:20:05+00:00

I think it's just the introversion that comes with people in STEM fields. They also tend to be salaried and work like rented mules decreasing their ability to pursue a social life. Blue collar work is often hourly and if they are working extra they get OT, but it's their choice to do so. Blue collar workers tend to have more friendships, at least in person ones and go out to public places giving them the opportunity to meet someone. I notice lots of stem guys friendships even if they know one another in person tend to revolve around video games.

I'm not saying this holds true to every guy in STEM, my partner is extremely extroverted to a point if we don't go out and socialize I can feel his discomfort. But his coworkers often comment on how different he is. How they struggle with customers but he doesn't. How he can outperform the pure sales guys. But it's glaringly uncommon.

You'll find many of those blue collar guys met their wives and girlfriends at that barbecue or at that Superbowl party or at that bar or through that mutual friend or even doing construction on their future wife's neighbors house (actually how my dad and mom met, she would wash her car in a bikini). Things STEM guys just don't typically do.

modidlee · 2023-05-21T16:03:18+00:00

It’s about polarity. Masculine balancing the feminine. The blue collar men do things that feminine women either can’t do, or don’t want to do. His personality is more stereotypical “male” and lets her be stereotypical “female.” The STEM guy does something that a woman could do just as well as he does. Back in the day working in an office was seen as “women’s work” by men and women. People can still hold onto those beliefs. Like I’ve seen white collar guys say things like “I don’t need to know how to change a tire because I can pay someone to do it.” It’s like yeah but what makes the tire changing guy attractive is that he can do something his woman either can’t do or doesn’t want to. Just like you’ll have emotionally expressive women be draw to men that are in control of their emotions. To that woman being with a man that has less control of his emotions could feel like being with another woman.

HuckleberryThis2012 · 2023-05-21T18:30:44+00:00

Probably two things that cause this:

1)those men are far more socially adept and are much better at being charming when interacting with women in public. Having the husband checklist stuff of career/money is all well and good, but it is more long term stuff. Short term ability to attract women is far more dependent on social skills.

2)the women they go after might be “blue collar” women who aren’t expecting to find a rich husband. Maybe they’re a little trashier than the women who have careers and aren’t looking to just hookup with someone who is husband material.

AidsVictim · 2023-05-21T22:49:54+00:00

Most STEM guys get married after college and do fine. In fact they are almost certainly more likely to have a stable marriage than the average blue collar guy. My personal experience is that the successful (i.e. average guy in corporate tech) STEM guys tend to be of average or greater attractiveness, have a serious girlfriend or wife, reasonably social etc. There are guys that are "off" but you I saw just as much if not more working blue collar jobs. There are dudes who look like they were ripped out of the revenge of the nerds or whatever but they were the exceptions not the rule. Reddit gives you a distorted picture over what the average reality is.

Contrary to most of what's posted here being high IQ and in a technical field does not destroy your ability to socialize or social intelligence (if you have high IQ you probably have high social intelligence as well). Struggling nerds are usually a consequence of personality types and under socialization which does have some correlation to STEM, but people are exaggerating it. I knew many struggling guys in blue collar jobs when I worked in those industries.

Moldy_Gecko · 2023-05-23T01:07:26+00:00

Because redditors and STEM people are nerds. These guys are natural and work with their hands. Like real men. That's the idea and stereotypes anyway. I'm sorry, but you're not gonna pick up a ton of chicks playing Dungeons and Dragons. And, as has been discussed 100000000 times, confidence > actual looks.

MeleeMistress · 2023-05-23T18:32:38+00:00

 Interesting observation. Lots of women find blue collar workers hot. I don’t have a reason for you but can give you my anecdotal experience. I dated a STEM guy in college and married a blue collar worker. STEM ex couldn’t work a power tool, my blue collar husband has built ceilings and porches and floors. This is really attractive and comforting in the same way men sometimes say women who can cook are attractive. Yeah, we can outsource all the traditionally male/female home jobs with $$$$$ but lots of us are still attracted to those who can do them! That was definitely not the reason I dumped STEM guy but the only thing they (as a group) have to offer over blue collar workers is $$$. I make my own and my blue collar husband makes enough too. It wasn’t a pull.

CakeSprinklesUnicorn · 2023-05-24T20:01:42+00:00

The blue-collar men come across as more masculine, strong, and tough. A lot of the STEM white-collar dudes come across as more feminine and weak, especially if they're too skinny. Most girls aren't attracted to feminine men.

sadbitch55 · 2023-05-25T00:39:51+00:00

social prowess

VehementlyDrawn · 2023-05-20T23:50:04+00:00

I don't think it's any secret that dudes who work labor jobs are more attractive than the general population

wiz-weird · 2023-05-21T04:52:45+00:00

You seem to have quite the disdain towards STEM, introverted, and/or asocial men, OP, judging by your replies.

ywqqvvechat · 2023-05-21T04:15:14+00:00

Bluecollar guys are socialised better and they have less crave. The STEM guys worked hard on their education. Sex is undeniably part of their motivation. When women don't buy it, their ego get hurt then they are redpilled.

Updawg145 · 2023-05-21T05:31:21+00:00

Since I've been on both sides of this to some degree, I feel like I am in a good position to answer this (although the answer I'm about to give is similar to other good answers in this thread):

When I was younger and blue collar, I found I was better with women, as you suggest. Reason looking back was because I just gave less of a shit. I blundered my way through the vast majority of interactions with women, and only "succeeded" because of the numbers game I was playing. In any numbers game, 999 losses don't matter because the 1 win you get, is the one that you actually care about.

As I got older and transitioned to white collar work, I found I also lost my dumb confidence and ability to just brute force my way through social interactions. I became a lot more reclusive, analytical, opinionated, and generally unwilling to accept the "risks" of social engagement with women, meaning I became far less exposed to women than when I was blue collar. As a result, each "loss" with women hits a lot harder as I know have this deep-seated philosophical resentment of women's status in society and how they participate in the dating market, vs my attitude as a young blue collar worker which was basically:

*get rejected*

"Haha women say no! Next woman!"

Now it's:

*get rejected*

"Women are overly picky in today's dating market due to a myriad of social and economic factors that make the average man far less valuable than he once was, leading to an extreme difficulty in-" etc

DrinkItInMan11 · 2023-05-21T12:44:04+00:00

That's not the experience I've seen in the real world, blue collar men are usually fat and their partners are.....also fat.

Blue collar men aren't out there pulling super model women.

Christian_Kong · 2023-05-20T23:26:20+00:00

Those "blue collar guys" spend plenty of time on forums themselves, that isn't the issue.

......and the reason is that there is way more blue collar folks.

AdOpen432 · 2023-05-20T19:20:04+00:00

Because stem guys are really annoying.

SmolPPAcceptance · 2023-05-20T20:11:02+00:00

bus drivers, carpenters, construction workers, trash men, ...

These people are mostly mexicans (probably undocumented) where I live so I don't have too much insight into what they're doing. But I've literally never seen them at a bar or club or even Dave and Busters. I see them at Walmart and they look miserable even if they're with their wives.

Maybe out in the boonies this "blue-collar chad" is a thing but as I'm not white, I doubt I could larp as that type.

Specialist-Action-33 · 2023-05-20T21:15:31+00:00

These "average Joes" are the guys that women want to settle down with when reality sets in with most of them. When they are done partying and most realizing that they can't get a high status man, so they feel that getting in a relationship with an average men is more attainable. Same time, these men are the ones that those women don't want a ONS/FWB with. Not saying that all of those women went about it that way, but more than likely the average man's only chance of being with a woman is to get a romantic relationship with them.

IMendicantBias · 2023-05-20T23:06:56+00:00

I was a welder in shop with a lot of 40+ year old men who had it no better than what we already know. Ironically only two dudes out of 75 weren't divorced both married girls from their childhood. One knocked his stripper friend up who already had a kid. The other came from money so he married young. Both have been married over 20 years no issues. They straight up told their wives the consequences of betrayal and it stuck.

caption291 · 2023-05-21T05:00:54+00:00

I guess I could try to avoid triggering people's insecurities and say that they are more socially skilled.

LoopyPro · 2023-05-21T08:31:16+00:00

Their location is what defines their SMV. The globalized dating market is a thing, but that doesn't mean that local dating pools are no longer there. You call them average Joes, but are they average in their own town? A global 6 could be a blue collar union city 9.

No-Relationship8433 · 2023-05-22T12:23:32+00:00

Because they have nothing to lose and are more prone to substance abuse.

Also usually tend to be more social creatures.

W33d, liq, even meth help …. A LOT….

I don’t think I’ve ever met a pothead who was virgin. Even if they looked awful.

And these dudes usually say they have a hard life but their mom is either a nurse or they grew up with their rich grandma. Either way they spend age 5-25 living life with Their sole existence being to get with girls from a super young age.

If you compare that to a guy who is from another country who has to study hard so he can survive after age 25 AND help his family… it becomes pretty clear who has the advantage in life. And who will ultimately have infinite more success with women, and more time to play sports and develop their physique from a young age.

No-Expression-399 · 2023-06-20T01:39:41+00:00

It’s because they often resort to darker methods of pick up artists - they often neg (a form of emotional abuse to kill this individuals self esteem), or use other forms of flattery, exploitation or incentives.

It may work in the short term but it eventually fails; however this would explain the higher amount of sexual conquests overall, as well as the higher amount of different partners.

Zealousideal_Tap8641 · 2023-05-21T04:01:00+00:00

Pretty sure this is BS unless you can get some stats to support your argument. A few blue-collar guys I know from high school are married, but their girls generally and ugly and fat. My friends who have good white collar jobs have better looking gf's/wifes if they do have one.

I will say that blue-collar guys seem to be more likely to get into a relationship probably because they are more "go with the flow" types and just get married because that's what you do. But again, their wife's generally are not the best looking from what I've seen.

thestruggle-isreal · 2023-05-20T19:22:57+00:00

They are more sexist

jay10033 · 2023-05-21T00:16:57+00:00

What's the population of your city?

Mentathiel · 2023-05-21T09:51:37+00:00

How many STEM people do y'all know well? I'm a programmer and sure, we're a bit more introverted and awkward on average, but we're not all the nerdy pimply autistic kid. Most of us have normal experience with romantic love and relationships, decent social circles, etc.

szclimber · 2023-05-21T15:19:41+00:00

I know a lot of blue collar men, the story is more complex. Most have been married multiple times and have crazy ex stories. They generally start dating younger which helps them develope skills. Lots of cheating and drama compared to STEM guys.

Coolio_Street_Racer · 2023-05-21T15:39:24+00:00

I think increased intelligence and a lack of a love life are correlated.

My far fetched hypothesis is generally smarter people have higher estrogen levels. As estrogen is crucial for a lot brain functions. But higher estrogen means more feminine personality traits. Which is unattractive.

I’m a computer science major and alot of the people are very introverted

Chrommosar · 2023-05-21T16:38:31+00:00

I think the question needs to be reframed: Why does the average Joe sometimes get more attention that higher status guys? From my experience it's not the case

I work in a skilled trade. Blue collar work in general ESPECIALLY construction has some of the highest rates of depression and suicide in the US. It reassures a culture of alcoholics and drug abusers. While this could be beneficial if you are going to bars or clubs at night, from my view, most tradesmen that drink go home to do it alone. The rest are sober and do not hang with that crowd anymore.

A number of the guys I've worked with are divorced and not seeking, single dad's, or hire escorts. Sure I know one of the guys my age has a very active life outside work. But for the most part my motivation to go out and mingle/date is gone after a 50hr week.

The ironic thing is that the older guys that work at a desk doing project management live very different life's. Wealth, status, marriage and or side chicks.

GridReXX · 2023-05-21T19:02:28+00:00

I’ve been on many dates and i couldn’t tell you the amount of times I heard from my dates mouth “I would never date a blue collar worker”.

I just think everyone has their different view points I guess.

I’ll tell you what though. If my experience was what you stated then I would have been a trades men years ago.

Fuck sitting at a desk for 10 hours a day

odd_cloud · 2023-05-21T22:33:06+00:00

I think, stem is a relatively new area that allows men to be successful in terms of resources and status. People who are now successful in stem, could not be successful previously.

Who was considered successful previously? Violent men (military, later police), leaders (officers, politicians, managers), charismatic ones (merchants, lawyers). People of art and science were a small layer in the society.

Modern society made it possible for a guy to be successful if he’s just clever. Your typical stem guy isn’t violent, doesn’t lead people, and isn’t charismatic. He writes funny text in different colours and moves pixels on a screen. I think, people are not used to the fact this category of people may be valuable.

RedPill115 · 2023-05-21T23:14:19+00:00

I'm sure it's many factors, but the fact that they're going after blue collar women is going to be one of them.

Girls from blue collar backgrounds will come over because they're bored.
Girls from middle class and up backgrounds with run away because they like you.

Which one is going to have difficulties in dating is...not hard to imagine.

RedPill115 · 2023-05-21T23:24:49+00:00

Sex Drive is mating drive.

One of the signs in hunter/gatherer times that a male has gotten old enough to support kids is that he's reached a point where he's not learning anything new. He's learned to hunt, he's learned to farm, etc - when you reach a point where you're not learning anything new and you're just doing things on repeat the brain starts using a different area that's more efficient at repetitive tasks.

So girls evolve to feel attraction to a guy in that state. Someone who has matured to the point of being able to support a child.

Stem guys entire job could be described as "constant non-stop learning". He never leaves the mental state of being in a constant learning mode. So, women run into this and their instincts react with aversion to sexuality because for ancestors in hunter gatherer times, the vibes he's giving off are like that of an immature teen to young to be able to support a child.

Starcraft_III · 2023-05-21T12:27:44+00:00

The dating scene when you grew up was different

tadL · 2023-05-21T12:57:34+00:00

Your experience is totally opposite to mine. Just no.

I was 30 and met the mother of my children. She was 20. She went after me. I did not care at all was working on my future. Went again to university with 28 to become a lawyer.

I am now soon 40. Single parent father of two young kids. I did beat the system that throws the kids by default to the mother.

And even now. Soon 40. Still not in best shape. Have a belly. Yes I am working to get rid of it for my kids. I still have so many options. Young woman my age and older. I am not interested in any of them. But no week passes without filling the "mother take kids weekend" with date options. And they ask me out. I don't bother talking to woman at all outside of my work.

And I use the weekend mainly to go to the gym or swim and clean up the home. I take one date for Friday. And I am really picky. She has an iPhone it's an instant no. Disqualified. She has not an iPhone but Instagram or tiktok Snapchat and else is existing. it's a no. And that is already an insane filter that deletes options.

To go to your point. If you are ugly, out of shape, nothing is going for you. It does not matter what age you are. You are not an attractive option for any woman. And I would never blame them for ignoring such guys. If my daughter would bring such a guy home I would kik him out. And tell her if she dates such a loser she can. I don't care about his job. If it's solid and stable it's totally fine. But if he is out of shape that's a no . I will accept it. He should never show up to my place I will visit you. but give all back I bought you. He has to now take care of you. Good luck. If things go wrong you are welcome home but his ass ... you better make sure it's over and he never shows up again in your life.

But I agree that bad woman like to overlook the great man out there that keep our world running. Be happy you could have be trapped by the mother of my children

Edit: I don't work as a lawyer. I have a regular blue colour job for the government. Nothing special. No big paycheck. But a stable income and a boss that understands what beeinh parents means and adjusts to that. And not because he wants to. Because he has to by law. Perfect.

DumpApe135 · 2023-05-20T22:32:49+00:00

I don't know how true this is honestly, one of my friends is in the trades as an aircraft technician and is objectively really good-looking only dated one girl long term and is now single, but mostly of his choice due to not meeting the kind of quality women he goes for, if we are talking average joe as in a construction laborer out of high school plenty of them are married/having kids but to at least me not quality women, also plenty of them will end of divorced and remarried or in dead bedrooms. I think the STEM bros/forum guys like me are much more risk adverse in terms of romance.

FakeNewsFredo · 2023-05-21T03:31:15+00:00

In some regions, blue collar dudes make as much or more than STEM dudes. Pro machinists, pro plumbers and HVAC dudes. I'm not kidding. Additionally, in some places, you'll have an easier time finding a job in the trades.

Now, obviously, pro nerds working in silicon valley do really, really, well. But, not every city (or country) is like that.

I also gather that living near silicon valley is a bit expensive, too.

Alive_Time · 2023-05-21T11:58:13+00:00

Guys in those fields don't waste time in college and get married early.

daddysgotanew · 2023-05-21T13:13:35+00:00

Money. Despite what your high school guidance counselor told you, most of the trades pay way more money than white collar jobs. The richest people I know all own blue collar service businesses.

SecondEldenLord · 2023-05-21T19:13:08+00:00

They don't

Title	Why does it seem that blue collar and “average Joe” men have an easier time with female romantic partnership than money making STEM or forum guys?
Author	GridReXX
Upvotes	171
Comments	488
Date	May 20, 2023 6:25 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/13n2a56/why_does_it_seem_that_blue_collar_and_average_joe/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-does-it-seem-that-blue-collar-and-average-joe.1219847 https://theredarchive.com/post/1219847

Comments