The Manosphere (Red Pill whatever you want to call it) is a movement that is more about woman slander than helping men and boys.

APA770 · 2023-02-27T00:15:20+00:00

"The manosphere--RP (including trad con and PUA), Incel/Blackpill, MGTOW,-- as the notable big 3 have not done anything to help boys and men in regards to these issues. These spaces focus primarily on hating women."

First, it was never my experience when I was a regular in the manosphere many years ago that the spaces were primarily about hating on women. Sure, it happened, but my experience was that that kind of thing was always an outlier. There was a lot of frank talk about female nature, yes, but it was generally in the spirit of "this is how modern dating dynamics work, and the best thing you can do about it is focus on improving yourself." In fact there was a general prevailing theme discouraging people from "blaming" women, as that view was taken to be immature and petty. Basically, nature isn't always fair and in many cases, females are the gatekeepers of sex. Instead of being whiny and bitter about it, just stop making women/sex the center of your world and find something more productive to do.

This angle, no matter what anybody says, can tremendously helpful for a lot of guys who aren't happy with their romantic life, have self esteem issues, depression, or who have been burned bad by a relationship. It can be very empowering to take responsibility for one's own happiness, or "grow up," so to speak, and in my experience this was largely what the manosphere offered for those who knew how to look past the small but vocal percentage of actual haters.

Regarding solving the issues that mean are facing today, the manosphere itself isn't a "movement;" it's a place for discussion, diagnosing social problems, and philosophy. It isn't meant to be anything more than that and never was. That said, it can certainly empower young men, help them mature, and who may later move on and get involved with more real-world causes. This was certainly the case for me. I spent about a year ingesting what the manosphere had to offer, picked up what was useful, ignored what wasn't, developed my on personal mission, and then moved on to a new phase of life. Looking back, I can without a doubt say that the things I learned during my time there helped me navigate my 30s much more successfully than I would have otherwise. It helped me center my focus on what is truly important in life, cultivate emotional autonomy, and certainly helped me dodge more than a few landmines.

Granted, I'm pretty far removed from current manosphere dynamics, so I can't really speak to what's going on today. There's also a whole new generation coming down the pike in Gen Z, and perhaps dynamic isn't the same as it used to be. Someone else can chime in if they have any insight into the current climate.

AlastorSitri · 2023-02-27T15:07:39+00:00

RP/BP organizations can't exist because anything related to men is viewed as bad. Just look at how many people laugh at the simple notion of Men's Rights. Movember (which also collect and donate money towards men's health, like feminism) is viewed by many as misogynist.

Men are routinely told they are not allowed to have "safe spaces". Any and all GOOD male icons are bashed to hell.

How can you expect any sort of group like modern day feminism to exist/succeed given these barriers?

Feminists also don't claim that men shouldn't have rights to vote or hold office!

This is only a fringe minority. I could say the same things about some of the views of the twittersphere feminist/LGBT community *cough cough abort all men*. But I know that doesn't represent the whole.

KochiraJin · 2023-02-27T04:54:54+00:00

Feminists build DV shelters to help women escape.

The first women's shelter was opened by Erin Pizzey, who is not a feminist. Feminists threatened and terrorized her out of her own organization and eventually her country, for noting that an awful lot of domestic violence is reciprocal. Feminist actively hinder attempts to help men.

Fun_Push7168 · 2023-02-26T23:37:43+00:00

The thing is, you can't push a solution to problems that people deny even existing. The first stage is always awareness. When enough people are aware then solutions can be developed. Before then if you just say " we need a solution to x problem" people just go " what do you mean x problem? Does that even exist? Pfft "

rantsincognito · 2023-02-26T22:39:29+00:00

How do you know men don't help men? I'm a man and the most helpful people in my life have been other men. Women have been more likely to try to keep me down or jealously downplay my success. Men helping men will be decried as more work of the "patriarchy" and men receiving favorable treatment that feminism needs to fix. Even the "manosphere" helped me gain confidence and understand why the shit that didn't make sense make sense. Women like you want to shut it down or deplatform it. Why do you care so much if it really is useless? Oh let me guess, because you don't approve it is "harmful". You know what's best for men better than they do. Only things women approve of should be allowed to exist.

lolthankstinder · 2023-02-26T23:14:22+00:00

A lot of modern feminists (not to be confused with feminism) spew a very powerful "you're either with us or against us" polarization through cancel culture, shaming, and manipulation and will (ironically) oppress any efforts to address/research valid men's issues.

For example, if a group of intellectual, progressive, pro-gender equality men assembled to try to healthily address men's issues, feminists would immediately say well what about women? The mere existence of this space would "take away" from women's issues. If you have money and resources, why aren't you giving them to women! If you get into a gender-issue dick-measuring contest with feminists, they will just point at history or other countries where women are or were undeniably oppressed. So, the community would just get labeled as "anti-feminist" merely for existing and polarize towards misogyny.

As an example of this pressuring/polarizing effect, Richard Reeves, inequality and social mobility researcher and author of the book Of Boys and Men prefaces his book:

Even so, I have been reluctant to write this book. I have lost count of the number of people who advised against it. In the current political climate, highlighting the problems of boys and men is seen as a perilous undertaking. One friend, a newspaper columnist, said, “I never go near these issues if I can avoid it. There’s nothing but pain there.”

He advises:

We can hold two thoughts in our head at once. We can be passionate about women’s rights and compassionate toward vulnerable boys and men.

And he points out the political weaponization of males:

there is a political stalemate on issues of sex and gender. Both sides have dug into an ideological position that inhibits real change. Progressives refuse to accept that important gender inequalities can run in both directions, and quickly label male problems as symptoms of “toxic masculinity.” Conservatives appear more sensitive to the struggles of boys and men, but only as a justification for turning back the clock and restoring traditional gender roles. The Left tells men, “Be more like your sister.” The Right says, “Be more like your father.” Neither invocation is helpful. What is needed is a positive vision of masculinity that is compatible with gender equality. As a conscientious objector in the culture wars, I hope to have provided an assessment of the condition of boys and men that can attract broad support.

This is just from the preface. I highly recommend reading the book because he goes into a lot more detail and research. Just to clarify, I'm not saying that the manosphere spaces aren't disingenuous. I'm saying that the overarching political/gender climate doesn't really give aggrieved men anywhere else to go except those spaces.

M_LaSalle · 2023-02-27T00:45:55+00:00

Shouldn't manosphere men be mentoring boys or supporting them in getting sober (raising money for people who can't afford rehab?) encouraging them in school, tutoring them, etc?? I never see manosphere men talking about SOLUTIONS that don't involve disparaging women.

This is daft. Red Pill wasn't set up to get boys or men into rehab or whatever. It wasn't set up to solve intractable social problems either. It's not a support group for men with drinking problems, we have AA for that.

RP exists to help men with their problems navigating the modern dating/sexual marketplace. This involves telling the truth about female behavior as it actually exists. Whether this "disparages women is irrelevant. OP's use of the phrase "disparage women makes me think or Give 'rm Hell Harry's alleged remark that he would "Give 'em the truth and they think it's hell."

ThisBoringLife · 2023-02-27T11:47:42+00:00

Considering this group is perceived to be growing, there's only two options on this:

-Either misogyny and hatred of women is genuinely growing, or

-The manosphere has value to men, and continue to provide value to men. Far more than what feminism has provided to men.

It wouldn't be a stretch to believe that the manosphere has helped men with dating more than feminism has, and that is why men continue to gravitate towards it.

HazyMemory7 · 2023-02-26T22:35:01+00:00

I don't consider blackpill to be part of the manosphere. It is radically different from redpill; blackpill leans heavily into genetic pre-determinism, while redpill describes behavioral trends and places a lot of emphasis on personal accountability and self improvement. When you say "the manosphere" and lump RP in with blackpill and mgtow, you've already ruined your credibility because you're talking about 3 very distinct groups.

Here's a fact: the overwhelming vast majority of women who criticize redpill haven't spent 2 minutes reading actual redpill content (sidebar in the trp sub) or seen anything from the most useful channels outside of tidbits in tiktok clips.

Take freshandfit for example: Myron is a guy who was a self proclaimed nerd growing up. He's made videos giving advice about weight lifting, diet, real estate, family law, making your ig look enticing, game at bars/clubs, investing, does regular advice streams ect... and for some of these tops he brings on experts in their respective fields. All of this is free on YT.

Feminism is a colossal joke. It is purely a women's supremacist movement today. Where were the feminists when Johnny Depp, a domestic abuse victim, got justice in court? Oh that's right, they were supporting a woman who defrauded a children's hospital out of millions to get it tax free, and was arrested for hitting her girlfriend. On the topic of dating, feminism has nothing to offer other than empty platitudes like "just be yourself" "go to therapy" or "just take a shower"

The helpful advice in the manosphere is there for men if they want it. And ironically, the places that actually slander an entire gender (men) instead of providing any useful advice, are women's spaces like fds and twox.

Edit: the salty reports for observe redditquette lmfao

chupasway · 2023-02-26T22:43:03+00:00

The manosphere is primarily focused on dating. Not really men's rights.

Brook_ETH · 2023-02-27T01:53:50+00:00

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Royal-Tip4585 · 2023-02-26T23:59:40+00:00

70% of the content in the manosphere is basically “get your shot together and don’t worry about hoes. If you get successful they come later”. If that’s not helpful. Then your not able to see forest through the trees.

“Women slander” is just calling out how bad it’s gotten and making it clear to young men women aren’t worth it. Success and lifting is. And it gets you women anyway.

Capeninja · 2023-02-26T23:04:37+00:00

The manosphere isn't men's rights. It shouldn't be compared to feminism, but rather women's dating spaces like FDS and Diabla, which are similarly amoral and exploitative.

YveisGrey · 2023-02-27T00:45:34+00:00

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just_a_place · 2023-02-27T09:25:40+00:00

Wrong. The Manosphere is an anti-SafeSpace and a marketplace of ideas and expressions where men can express what we truly think about the world without censorship or persecution for wrongthink.

In simple words, the Manosphere is a set of decentralized platforms for the purpose of Freedom of Speech.

A very wide and very disparate groups of movements - that are mutually exclusive and even antagonistic to each other - have spawned out of it, such as The Red Pill, MGTOW, Black Pillers, Incels, PUAs, MRA's etc; but The Manosphere itself is not a movement. Calling the Manosphere a movement is gross misinformation.

The Manosphere is NOT synonymous with any Men's Right's Movement, and in fact, the Manosphere surged as an environment in which to call out the subtle feminist BS that the Men's Rights Movement was peddling. The Manosphere is pretty anti-MRA because a lot of the guys there express how all of these "men's movements" are just plain bullshit artists trying to hustle us. It's all either some slimy fuck like Tai Lopez & Andrew Tate, selling self-esteem to incels and losers, or it's woketivist weirdos proselytizing New Age feminist BS like neo-masculinity or some other horseshit to other groups of low self-esteemers.

That's why the Manosphere is pretty cynical, and anti-establishment with a rebellious spirit. It's where ideas go to get challenged and bullshit goes to die. Why do you all think Andrew Tate was in the Mainstream and NOT in the Manosphere? Why do you all think that other clown Rollo Tomasi also got aborted from the Manosphere and also went mainstream? That's because they couldn't sell their bullshit in the competitive market of ideas so they moved on to more naive and less critical audiences in the mainstream!

Aromatic_Shop9033 · 2023-02-27T06:05:34+00:00

No. It's men protecting themselves and calling out modern women for their shit.

red__hulk · 2023-02-27T07:26:58+00:00

Firs of all TRP and the manosphere is not the same. TRP is a specific set of guidelines that helps men succeed in life with them putting their own needs first.

The manosphere is just an umbrella term for pretty much any male group thats anti feminist or anti mainstream really.

How you people always use those interchangeably is beyond me and shows you have zero understanding what any of those terms are.

Vulture051 · 2023-02-27T03:04:40+00:00

Like feminism, the "manosphere" is/was a good and needed movement that was corrupted by bitter people and grifters. In the latter's defence they were made bitter by feminism shutting them down at every turn and the gifters saw their opportunity to exploit those bitter men's anger.

The big difference between feminists and MRAs is feminism lasted long enough to get women's issues mostly solved, and now has to invent problems, while the Men's Rights was smothered in the cradle.

asdfwink · 2023-02-27T15:04:35+00:00

Try getting gov money (as feminists do for the bulk of what they use) for any of the issues for men you listed. I’ll wait.

AfterRemorse · 2023-02-26T23:20:57+00:00

Feminism is designed to harm and disadvantage men and young boys.

I don't disagree that the manosphere has some militarized slanderous people just like it has people with noble intentions (like just pearly things for example), just like feminism has a mix of people.

But Feminism is a militant ideology whose entire history has misandrist writers and speakers who advanced it. People use it to actively hurt men and it's intentional.

So though I don't disagree with your point, I think it's good that people are pushing back on the delusional, self entitled, narcisstic and abusive women who feel like they have no consequences for their actions due to being spoiled rotten.

It's both a war and a collaboration. If one side is actively causing harm so should the other be bringing harm because as much as we hate to accept it, if you look at the world, the only thing most people accept or respect is pain when it affects and hurts them in some way. So these are the things that draw attention and the hopefully funnel in to more nuanced conversation that pushes development.

But yeah. I'm glad they're "slandering" women or rather beating back on delusional ones. They probably go to far, so do 1st wave feminists figures which talk about neutering men and reducing the population to 20% lmao.

This isn't a civil issue. People are actively trying to do harm. That's what most people don't fully understand.

YveisGrey · 2023-02-27T04:26:50+00:00

"Shouldn't manosphere men be mentoring boys or supporting them in getting sober (raising money for people who can't afford rehab?) encouraging them in school, tutoring them, etc??"

Manosphere men are doing these things, just not while marching under the Manosphere banner. The Manosphere isn't an all encompassing identity for most men, nor is it our chosen vehicle for organization or publicity. It is but a tool for learning, discussion and self improvement. For outside pursuits, there are other tools. Its very different from feminism in this respect, and we like it that way. Men are largely content with the narrow focus of the Manosphere and ultra specific purpose it serves. We don't need it to be everything, least of all what women prod us to turn it into. It's a precision scalpel designed to cut through the bullshit narratives society pedals, not a Swiss army knife meant to perform all of life's tasks. If we want to change things at the real world social/political/economic level, we will generally turn to other mediums, or other groups. I for one am not at all interested in fashioning men's online spaces in the image of feminism. Thank God we're under no obligation to. The Manosphere is one of the only remaining places where men can prioritize things as we see fit, without women driving the agenda. We're not meeting your standards? Fantastic. I will sincerely do everything in my power to make sure that remains the case.

Familiar_Egg8802 · 2023-02-27T01:05:39+00:00

I don't have any of those problems, my issue is with women and in every other area I'm above average.

LikePretzels- · 2023-02-27T21:33:36+00:00

"Feminist put their money where their mouth is"

Considering the treatment of women in the middle east and that all i hear in america is "I'm oppressed because I can't wear Yoga pants to work" it kinda sounds like you don't give a fuck about anyone else.

WNBA is only a thing because the NBA fully supports it and covers all it's numerous losses, doesn't seem like women actually want to support other women.

Away_Entrance1185 · 2023-02-28T09:57:58+00:00

The term "Manosphere" was invented by the Feminist media to find an excuse to group the San Bernardino perpetrator with the Men's Rights Movement and MGTOW, he was an Anti-PUA (proto-incels) and the term "Manosphere" was designed to group PUA's, Anti-PUA's, MRA's, and MGTOW into one group. These arguments you presented complete fall apart once you remove the perceived unity of these groups.

How are the far-left Pro-Male Collective even remotely similar to Tradcons? They're not, but people pretend they are whenever they use the term "Manosphere".

The PUA "Redpill" isn't even comparable to the MRM Redpill or the MGTOW Redpill. One is about dating dynamics and the other is about society and societal dynamics.

PUA's never talk about circumcision, alimony laws, child custody, the right for men to have paper abortions, Etc. Yet as an MRA I am always placed in the same box as them because we are both in the "Manosphere".

nexkell · 2023-02-27T00:20:58+00:00

This is why it doesn't even begin to make sense to compare RP spaces to feminism.

RP itself isn't about helping men. MRA is about helping men.

I never see manosphere men talking about SOLUTIONS that don't involve disparaging women.

One can say the same about feminism seeing how women/feminists do nothing but bring men down while wanting to raise women up. Hell I even had a conversation with /u/Perfect-Resist5478 who didn't think the pendulum has swung when it came to education. In fact she said things getting equal with women being more educated than men.

Feminists also don't claim that men shouldn't have rights to vote or hold office!

No they push for things like curfews for men and how women shouldn't be in prison only men. Oh wait thats just a joke as feminists would say. As feminists totally don't hate men and yet they do. The whole movement is about hating and being against men.

Until I see more focus on actually helping boys and men and less woman slander I will continue to see them as the hate space they are.

/u/YveisGrey feminism is a hate space as well. I see nothing but feminists like you bashing men and tearing them down. All while being ignorant of what MRA's are doing. MRA's have been working on things like domestic violence and even trying to raise awareness of men's issues. Feminists have done nothing but attack MRA's over it. As its a threat to you women that men actually do something about their issues.

despisedlove2 · 2023-02-27T01:38:42+00:00

More accurately, manosphere lays bare the nature of women, and creates a public relations disaster for them that gets in the way of supply of simps.

Men are problem solvers. With the right data, they come up with the way mostly themselves. They don't need to be spoonfed "solutions".

See how easy it is when you just focus on the truth? Didn't have to write a wall of text to get to the point.

No-Rough-7390 · 2023-02-27T04:10:08+00:00

This is a case of being on the internet too much.

Every guy I know who became aware of RP content and the sidebar ended up happier, better with women, and making more money (in no particular order). If anything, the anger or frustration they had went away.

All groups get judged at some point by their worst members. Nothing is a monolith.

gmanex · 2023-02-27T07:03:04+00:00

Red pill worked for me and the women also had a great time, so it is a win-win scenario!!

Maffioze · 2023-02-27T09:42:10+00:00

This is why it doesn't even begin to make sense to compare RP spaces to feminism. One thing about feminists they put their money where their mouth is. Girls lack access to education? Feminists raise money and build schools for girls. Women are victims of DV (DV being the number one cause for murder in women)? Feminists build DV shelters to help women escape. Women struggle to hold jobs and take care of newborn babies at the same time? Feminists push for policies to grant them parental leave and secure their jobs if they need time off. Feminists also don't claim that men shouldn't have rights to vote or hold office!

You're missing a lot of nuance in this part. First of feminism has way more power than any organisation that revolves around men. Feminist organisations have a lot of power to lobby for funding and policy changes. Feminism is incorporated within the dominant ideology within the west (because it serves the elites well). Its way easier to not let frustration get the best of you if your movement is accepted within the dominant culture and if you are already profiting from the status quo.

However any group revolving around men and their issues is immediately portrayed and dismissed as being hatefull and misogynistic regardless of their actual viewpoints/intentions. No matter how egalitarian and non-hatefull you are this is how you will be perceived and feminists love maintaining this view that all men's rights groups are like this no matter the evidence of the contrary. A lot of men notice this and think "well no matter what I do I will be perceived badly anyway and my issues will get no attention so I might as well jump into the most extreme position because fuck it and fuck them" resulting in the manosphere. Feminists then use this to double down on their misandry even though they partly caused this in the first place.

Feminists do put their money where their mouth is but unfortunately its also hate, bigotry, sexism and pseudoscience that are coming out of their mouth. The following scientific article discusses how feminists have turned the domestic violence industry into an unscientific and sexist endeavour: https://www.researchgate.net/.../252321550_Perpetrator. Most feminists are bigoted towards men, they just use rationalisations to hide away their bigotry and to appear virtuous. It actively hurts men.

Long story short, yes there are issues with the manosphere but feminists have also caused this reality to develop. They aren't much better but just have more power in society.

SteveSan82 · 2023-02-27T05:02:19+00:00

You have shown that you know nothing about the Red Pill as usual. Research the topic next time

TangerineX · 2023-02-27T05:14:06+00:00

Food for thought, but if feminism wanted to be more productive in eliminating patriarchy, then wouldn't helping men adopt a non-toxic masculinity and become positive forces in society be a worthwhile goal? I mean, it's men who are the ones upholding the patriarchy, so de-escalating that early would be helpful. Yet even male oriented feminist spaces are often hesitant about actually going through with helping other men.

The reality is that even if the mannosphere doesn't end up helping men, they still position themselves as entities that do. A lot of men, regardless if there are results or not, feel helped by the manosphere.

Due-Lie-8710 · 2023-02-27T15:11:51+00:00

HOWEVER the manopshere is not in any way a "movement" to actually tackle these issues while some claim they are. The only thing I can credit them for is bringing some attention to their existence (not that these issues haven't been talked about outside of these online communities before but I digress). As far as actually doing anything productive to solve them?? NOTHING.

First off the manospere is not a male advocate group it's specifically limited to 3 things , money fitness and girl, also in terms of school that requires a more systematic idea , feminists are a movement that are championed and sponsored by everyone from the government to UN the manosphere isn't mens rights tried and they were disregarded , individuals have also tried but they are disregarded , feminist is by proxy a political and social group and it extends world wide, the manosphere is a niche and yes they do give good advice even in terms of law, fitness and financial advice tate might not but the others do they even give law advice

The manosphere--RP (including trad con and PUA), Incel/Blackpill, MGTOW,-- as the notable big 3 have not done anything to help boys and men in regards to these issues. These spaces focus primarily on hating women. Any time a stat or issue facing boys is brought up it is rarely if ever in a genuine effort to devise solutions but really just done so as "evidence" that women are the "real bad guys" and if there is any attempt at a "solution" it usually involves taking away women's rights or freedoms. I have read repeatedly in these spaces how women shouldn't vote, shouldn't have the right to initiate divorce etc...

The things you have mention are based on the relationship part of it and that's it nothing else and in terms of relationships their goal is separate from yours the goal is to pick up women , it is not meant to go beyond that as for the hating on women, that is the extreme just like the feminist extreme , which feminist also do not call out , there are literally feminist who advocate for the abortion of boys for simply being boys and that men who are victims of partentity fraud shouldn't be allowed to be removed , there are even some who believe men shouldn't have right to see their children in co parenting

This is why it doesn't even begin to make sense to compare RP spaces to feminism. One thing about feminists they put their money where their mouth is. Girls lack access to education? Feminists raise money and build schools for girls. Women are victims of DV (DV being the number one cause for murder in women)? Feminists build DV shelters to help women escape. Women struggle to hold jobs and take care of newborn babies at the same time? Feminists push for policies to grant them parental leave and secure their jobs if they need time off. Feminists also don't claim that men shouldn't have rights to vote or hold office!

Feminist are as powerful because they control mainstream media and have absolute banking from the government and powerful organisations the TRP doesn't have that kind of bank or following, they are a group of dudes who come together to dicuss dating woes and sometimes legal woes and if possible vent and give advice on these issue some criticise women at length sometimes justified and unjustified , they can't raise money because they aren't a lagre social group , feminist have seminars and school program , hack their idealogy is taught in schools , they have courses dedicated to this even political influence in almost all countries , they have holidays like womens history , they are also allied with the LGBTQ movement, they even influence laws , redpillers are mostly youtubers who have online forums that's the extent ot their reach , the very few people who discuss issue that you complain about are not redpillers sometimes not even MRA but guess what they are dismissed for even bringing it up both by feminist and non feminists, redpillers get traction because men are struggling in several aspects and they talk about some of those aspect even if it is in an unhealthy that's why they are gaining traction because before they came jordan peterson was there and he was healthy , and they still shat on him , you can't compare redpillers to feminist because feminism has the power to make change on a country level redpillers don't

Shouldn't manosphere men be mentoring boys or supporting them in getting sober (raising money for people who can't afford rehab?) encouraging them in school, tutoring them, etc?? I never see manosphere men talking about SOLUTIONS that don't involve disparaging women. Most of the advice they give is focused on self indulgent sexual conquests, manipulation tactics, get rich quick schemes and proposing that women shouldn't have rights and/or be the effective property of men. Hmm if I think hard I guess I'll also add encouraging men in fitness to my list of positives, so that's 2 good things total.

Some do some don't, they literally discourage drugs , they advice dudes to work out , not watch porn , focus on making money and even give advice to men on how to make money and keep it , the lead attorney does that , fresh and fit have a law and financial segment only it just gets less clicks they are by your definition encouraging boys and men even hamza gives tips without the manipulation , half of their solution don't involve disparing women you just focus on the ones that do and half of the time , the women they call out are usually shitty but because women considers the idea of calling out women even incases where they are wrong as misogyny ,

the women shouldn't have their rights thing isn't that well used as that much of a talking point because its not majority talking point, I rarely see it in their spaces , as for sexual conquest I don't see this as a problem , the manipulation tactics is wrong ethically but the reason listen to it is because it works most of the time in hindsight and the idea isn't to get a fulfilling relationship just a relationship or sex they actually have more positive than negative

Until I see more focus on actually helping boys and men and less woman slander I will continue to see them as the hate space they are.

Their is limit to what they can do because they don't receive donations or get support from the public and even if it was for the things you listed they wouldn't get that many , there are several donations done for men issue out there but they get less advertised because they are less cared about even ones proposed by feminists , if you wanted to get support for male issue we would need help from actual popular people but most of the dudes that criticise these guys offer nothing half of the time , from guys like penguinzO noah samsun to hassan ludwig, I have never seen these guys talk about anything male issue hack promote any charity to help dudes they just shit on dudes who do it the wrong way or dudes who try at least while some red pillers are toxic , there are those who aren't and they at least try, people like erudite , destiny , ahrelevant or even Dr K they don't criticise redpillers as much as these dudes but yet they talk about these issue and even sometimes provide resources it's always the ones who do the most criticism that usually have nothing to offer

beleidigtewurst · 2023-02-27T16:11:24+00:00

There is no such movement, but there is very vocal BS labeling of people some men hating sexist f*cks dislike.

Paranoidexboyfriend · 2023-02-27T13:34:25+00:00

Men do build rehabs, schools, etc for everyone.

feminists focus on building the DV centers and scholarships for women. Actually they focus on nagging legislatures to have men build dv centers and fund scholarships for them.

Men build THE ENTIRE REST OF SOCIETY. Sorry that we took a second to vent about women not showing a shred of gratitude for men building practically everything that exists to create the comfort of modern society.

statsfodder · 2023-02-27T10:03:34+00:00

Feminism is a hate movement against men ... RP is a response to feminism.

Misandry is applauded

#killallmen

#menaretrash

All men are rapists

Meanwhile RP saying "Women want top tier men, you should strive to be top tier" = misogyny

vzmal · 2023-02-27T04:37:33+00:00

KEEP IN MIND I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS BUT, strategically the best thing for men to do is not to become the men women want to be with cause for many of them that’s physically impossible due to women’s height and facial preferences. Strategically the best thing to do would be form a mass coalition against women to circumvent women’s will and ability to consent entirely and then allocate them from that point. Single young men would rather untie and form a common goal of getting women via taking away their ability to be sexually selective than try to pander to women’s preferences just to be rejected due to looks.

revente · 2023-02-27T07:11:05+00:00

BS.

As a guy who was raised without a father and who thought that he’ll be a forever alone, i was taught most of my dating and social skills at r/seduction.

Since then I had a rich dating life full of great gilrls and amazing friends.

I used to return to that subreddit trying to help the newbies & to return the favour.

But it got soft-banned thanks to some dumb feminsts and blue-pills.

Currently I’m a member of a super positive r/leftwingmaleadvocates but I already see the signs of hate and bigotry of feminists trying to ruin it.

SDinAsia · 2023-02-27T09:30:44+00:00

Wrong.

For some reason, the entire manosphere is often lumped together even though there are several quite distinct subspecies which can hold often opposing views. I feel like important distinctions should be made between traditional red pill vs. incels. Specifically, I feel like certain concepts from the incel ideology are being unfairly ascribed to red pill praxeology.

Incels hate women, red pill does not hate women.
Incels hate chads, red pillers aspire to become chad.
Incels shame female preferences, red pill accepts female preferences.
Incels blame women, red pillers blame themselves.
Red pillers may experience a temporary anger phase, incels remain permanently angry.
Incels feel entitled to female attention, red pillers do not ("she's not yours, it's just your turn").

monaen · 2023-02-27T08:21:40+00:00

I 100% agree with the title.

Pathosgrim · 2023-02-27T05:23:57+00:00

The manosphere is currently being spearheaded by grifters and clowns. They flaunt a life of elitism and want their followers to fake their way forward. Red Pill should be about rebeling against the system but instead idiots are for it.

_here_ok · 2023-02-27T12:44:48+00:00

Most movements are built on the idea of having a common enemy as a motivator.

Problem is there aren't many options for enemies when it comes to sex and in turn we get this divide.

We either view men as the problem or woman as the problem Instead of going on that the powerful are the problem or ourselves.

I don't really feel like I belong to each movement because feminism that I have seen denotes men, and the manosphere denotes women. They just do it in different ways that lead to similar outcomes.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-02-27T14:45:45+00:00

There is a large portion of guys who have absolutely no interest in men's rights unless there's a way to shove it in women's (specifically feminists') faces.

r/MensLib is the only sub I've found that is actually interested in working on men's issues.

AceArguments · 2023-02-27T15:05:07+00:00

I completely agree. I'm an active member of my community where I both mentor, babysit, and provide programs for boys and girls.

Every fundraiser and community hosted event I've ever been to has almost always been female dominated. I used to volunteer for library services that help kids in the community that were low income and all the volunteers were women. I also used to volunteer at community centres for after school programs for kids with parents that work late or couldn't afford a babysitter. I've only met one guy in one of the after school programs and that was because he needed volunteer credits for high school. There are hot spots where I find more male volunteers like soup kitchens or thrift shops but almost all of them are doing it for the high school credit and that's all.

I'm not rich. I don't have a luxurious life. I volunteer not because I have all the time in the world but because I make time for it. Three hours on a Sunday to help out at a library once a month isn't that difficult.

If men really wanted to make changes in the lives of young boys, they would be actively participating in their community and providing guidance, mentorship, and role models for boys that need it rather than trying to learn game and becoming a top G.

Wise-War-Soni · 2023-02-27T19:28:34+00:00

Imo they do something worse than not actually changing the community for men. A lot of men who have platforms in the Manosphere charge their subscribers for additional advice which I find wild. Maybe I’m missing something, but most men in the manosphere who are not famous seem to have some form of a struggle they are dealing with (examples, financial, maybe even physical I have seen men talk about how being short impacts them) I feel like a lot of the leaders of the manosphere are mean and manipulative. Because not only are they not actively changing the environment to make it better for men. But they charge these men and give them half ass advice on their situations. Because if they were to give you legit advice you would not need them anymore (kinda like how therapy has an expiration date) I’m a “normie” woman and have always found this to be a toxic dynamic because of what you said and because I feel like they are preying on insecure young men. I feel the same way about femfluincers (idk what they are called but women who sell advice but not good advice)

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-02-27T21:46:12+00:00

Oh but don’t you see, women are supposed to help men. With our vaginas. Men helping men would be like totally gay!

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Barneysparky · 2023-02-26T23:01:04+00:00

[permanently deleted]

vorter · 2023-02-27T06:03:29+00:00

I would say r/MensLib and r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates do just that, although I wouldn’t consider the former part of the manosphere but think the latter could be included.

eye_of_gnon · 2023-02-27T11:47:22+00:00

male success depends in part on dominating others, that's how it's always been

Woko127 · 2023-02-28T15:02:17+00:00

If they help these young men then they won't be able to keep the grift going.

Mr_Serious_Person · 2023-03-01T01:18:08+00:00

MGTOW spends 90% of time talking about why women suck, 10% on pro tips.

Should be 10% why women suck and 90% pro tips, if you ask me.

xTakki27 · 2023-03-01T16:26:33+00:00

The feminist movement should see the RP and BP as a "nessessary evil to create stability" to correct their own misdeeds, just like the Yakuza were the same thing for Japan after 1945.

It's a balancing weight against the train wreck, that's called feminism nowadays - feminists want it to disappear - then they should stop the #KAM and #menaretrash clusterfuck they summoned. I still wonder to this day, why something like Jenny McDermott hasn't been incarcerated yet...

And every other aspect of third-wave-feminism has become a cesspit full vile and egocentric radicalized women, who even get a free pass for their misdeeds, while men get sent to prison (Look at Cardi B ffs - a shitty singer with an even shittier past).

In conclusion - they want men to be their "allies", so they must prove themselves, that they're able to be just as compassionate towards men as towards women.

And if they're not... well, I see the next Tate-type of guy in the making going live in the future.

DestroGamaDx · 2023-03-01T22:01:33+00:00

Yes its point is to take women off the pedestal that many boys and men grow up with and is meant to interact with men. Not blame women. Not to sound pious but it helps shape a more realistic view of women for most men. The black pill takes it even further. Where women will behave differently given your looks, income, status no matter your personality subconciously.

Think about it, you think the nerdy dude who is still listening to his mothers advice actually can obtain a womans interest and attention romantically? Alot of it is fanatical because its hard to beat the overly chivalrous part out of some men. You either do that or keep getting cheated on, ghosted, broken up with, divorced and used for resources and stop giving women the benefit of the doubt.

Id argue alot of redpill men are not used to seeing flaws pointed out in a womans behavour. Where on social media and music and entertainment women are encouraged to cheat or take for granted thier husbands and yes these infulences do effect our day to day ideology and behavour.

Enough_Chemistry3258 · 2023-03-03T23:04:27+00:00

I would agree.. today. 5 years ago it was just improvement

RX-HER0 · 2023-03-04T01:13:47+00:00

Yeah, unfortunately, it really is that way. When there's an abundance of something, most of that something is trash.

If anyone's in need of an actually good creator, check out Hamza on youtube.

Title	The Manosphere (Red Pill whatever you want to call it) is a movement that is more about woman slander than helping men and boys.
Author	YveisGrey
Upvotes	68
Comments	393
Date	February 26, 2023 8:19 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11crh1o/the_manosphere_red_pill_whatever_you_want_to_call/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-manosphere-red-pill-whatever-you-want-to-call.1153238 https://theredarchive.com/post/1153238

Comments

#killallmen

#menaretrash