CMV : For a woman to want to commit most of her mortal life to a man and grant him exclusive access, he SHOULD be pretty impressive, not just a guy who exists

Gr4nd45 · 2023-05-13T15:28:21+00:00

Why would either men or women stay with one another for lifetime? Because they love each other as people.

This whole outlook - "what can you bring to the table", sounds so bizarre to me. Relationships aren't business transactions. If you treat them as such, expect failure.

eefr · 2023-05-14T00:37:43+00:00

This whole way of looking at relationships is bizarre and toxic.

I want to find a partner, not a prize-winning pedigree poodle. I don't need him to be the most "impressive" man. I am not looking to form an impression of him, but rather build a life with him.

When I'm deciding whether to be with someone, I'm not evaluating what he has to offer. I'm assessing the quality of our relationship and our compatibility with each other. The way real humans do.

You guys keep calling it a sexual "marketplace," but I'm not interested in being marketed to. I'm looking for real human connection, and that isn't a function of wealth and accomplishments.

Educational_Ad4410 · 2023-05-13T19:32:10+00:00

You do know it runs both ways right? This man that brings a lot to the table isn’t only attractive to that one woman looking to settle down, he is attractive to many more women too.

The woman in this scenario would have to compete with the many other women that find him attractive. He can be as selective and choosy as this premise too.

That’s why you see dudes like Leonardo DiCaprio replacing women as soon as they turn 25. I don’t agree with this behaviour, it’s pretty messed up if you ask me but it still doesn’t stop the many women who want to date him.

Yeah is the average woman more valuable than the average man, of course but the men at the top live more than comfortable.

Emaknz · 2023-05-13T19:44:09+00:00

But women have inherently got more value than men and everyone knows this, if you don’t believe this to be true then mgtwo

I was with you right up to this part. People have equal value regardless of gender.

It's possible to acknowledge and want to fix gender related injustices and still acknowledge equal value. All rhetoric like this does is increase resentment.

duenebula499 · 2023-05-13T15:33:25+00:00

Fair enough, but the reverse should also apply. You are up against every other woman this hypothetical incredible guy can get, why exactly are you better than every single one of them?

PoytDerp · 2023-05-14T00:45:54+00:00

So women are parasites??

DoinIt989 · 2023-05-13T15:43:02+00:00

Most women want children, and raising your kids "in the community" rather than with their father, tends to produce way worse outcomes.

Happy_Nuclear_End · 2023-05-13T19:58:30+00:00

There's no extraordinary peoples for everyone and most women aren't extraordinary themselves.

Relationships should means to compromise, accept that there's no one perfect and accept each other.

What you purpose is the reason for marriage decline in quality over the years.

bsmith440 · 2023-05-13T22:45:07+00:00

But there are far more men that "just exist" (and women) than there are extraordinary men.

The problem comes up when women that "just exist" want an extraordinary man instead of a man that "just exists".

Extraordinary high value women have no problem finding an extraordinary high value man.

PMmeareasontolive · 2023-05-13T15:41:09+00:00

I'll make a tepid argument for Joe Average; he's less likely to take you for granted as quickly and may appreciate you more in general. So that Jane Average is a superstar in his realm where as she would be a bit player in Chad Thundercock's milieu. This may be useful to Jane if she has some inhibitions she wants to overcome, wants to feel more confident.

It's a theory. Not sure how much it ever plays out.

Billsandasonom · 2023-05-13T18:51:36+00:00

Since we're going the tradcon route, for a man to commit all his resources, provisions, and protection and labor to a woman for the rest of his mortal life, she should be pretty impressive, not just a woman who exists. This switcheroo feels a lot more relevant to discussion since biologically women are the ones given inherent value and men need to earn it. Why should women have inherent value no matter how mediocre she is if a man is agreeing to give all his time, money, and labor to her forever?

RockPirateMan · 2023-05-14T07:40:03+00:00

A lot of guys are impressive in a lot of ways, and "tick all the boxes" but just lack one or two desirable traits. That's all it takes to be unsuccessful as a man, not ticking one box on a long list. Height, salary, etc.

There are people out there who value each other as people and not this dystopian, capitalist "what do you have to offer me" attitude, but they are few and far between.

WillyDonDilly69 · 2023-05-14T10:56:30+00:00

Are you female andrew tate, just tell us directly that you like being a hoe. Also you don't bring nothing and to you mentioned that you are valuable just because of thirsty simps.

Devourer_of_felines · 2023-05-14T14:36:24+00:00

Why would a woman commit herself to one guy for decades, unless he is impressive and offers her a lot?

Look, if you want to approach life like that then you do you. Don’t complain when your inherent value drops and get dropped for someone with more inherent value

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-05-14T22:15:44+00:00

But women have inherently got more value than men and everyone knows this,

Based on what, that men will fuck them?

By that logic gay men have more value than straight men.

KamuiObito · 2023-05-15T03:16:14+00:00

Teflon08191 · 2023-05-14T03:41:27+00:00

Why would a woman commit herself to one guy for decades, unless he is impressive and offers her a lot?

Because she, recognizing that her shit stinks too, has realistic expectations.

Hypothetically of course. Most seem to have an incredibly difficult time realizing this.

tricep_bro · 2023-05-14T13:37:27+00:00

Because men actually have a higher value than women.

Women only have a higher value because they are the majority pf consumers. Women make up 70% of the consumer base so coporations and the government appeal to women.

So it is not due to inherent value, but rather exploitative value. Its easier to exploit women.

The government and coprorations do not carr about women more than how much money they can take from them.

Men have always been the more logical gender and it is harder to separate men from their wealth and power compared to women. So the only way they do that is by using women AGAINST us. Wether through encouraging promiscuity, divorces, etc or even using their sexuality against us (e:g: onlyfans).

However,if women committed to men, ignored promiscuity, rejected divorces, it would eventually bring back the family, with men at the head of the house, better wealth for the average family, less wealth for corporations and the government.

Women committing to a man would bring back power to men and reduce social inequality for all.

Preme2 · 2023-05-13T15:27:49+00:00

Well if you don’t think they’re bringing anything to the table, why the hell do you wanna be with them so bad and complain if they don’t want you?

Who said men want to be with the low value women? There are women who have a lot to offer and don’t mind reciprocating. I think most men are pursing after this type of woman. Men are hoping to avoid the dead beats, the clamorers, the scammers, the high n count, CC riding women. You can understand this right?

Reptheft · 2023-05-13T17:33:15+00:00

Modern "exclusive access" just isn't as valuable, in the past it actually meant eternal exclusivity, now it often just means "welp I'm done not being exclusive now, impress me."

In the modern day why would an "impressive" guy bother dating an average woman, instead of just pump and dumping her? There's often no answer to that, hence why it keeps happening.

Distinct-Yogurt9276 · 2023-05-13T18:02:51+00:00

"But women have inherently got more value than men and everyone knows this"

Besides looks women don't have more value than men. And women lose their good looks earlier than men. Besides looks, what value do women have that men don't?

ThorLives · 2023-05-13T19:41:57+00:00

he SHOULD be pretty impressive, not just a guy who exists

False dichotomy. Nobody was ever arguing that women should marry a guy for existing. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to play the victim.

Anyway, the whole argument smells like a rationalization for entitlement and unrealistic expectations.

Scarce12 · 2023-05-13T23:27:30+00:00

Women don't commit anything to men.

The argument I receive here as to why women sleep with other men before settling down is because they "need a life".

And so that's then to say, that to a life fulfilling to women, multiple sex partners are a necessity.

Women today need to try out all kinds of different cocks these days, don't you know.

Women throw nothing on the table when it comes to exclusivity.

Silver_Switch_3109 · 2023-05-13T18:22:42+00:00

This also should apply for men.

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RocinanteCoffee · 2023-05-13T23:18:00+00:00

Eh I never plan to commit in the first place (I do occasionally agree to it though). I don't need someone to impress me, but we do need to have good chemistry, good compatibility, and good communication. They need to desire me and think I add something to their lives and I them.

I think everyone regardless of gender should make sure to take care with choosing those they welcome into their lives.

ZealousidealAd7191 · 2023-05-14T04:16:38+00:00

Your question is wrong and selfish. Yes it suits the maximum benefit of a woman to seek the maximum she can acquire from a man. Similarly what incentive is there for a man to commit to a single woman ever. It suits a mans best interest to spread his seed as far and as wide as humanly possible. Surely a few of his seeds will find their way into women smart enough to keep his children alive.

Instead what we do is we negotiate. A woman sacrifices perusing the most “impressive” man she can possibly find for a man who is competent. A man sacrifices perusing the most beautiful woman he can find and sacrifices all the other women he might have an opportunity to impregnate for a long term care taking strategy.

So no it isn’t logical for women to have impossibly high standards. Its entitled, its prohibitive, and its a product of our unnatural modern world.

HmanTheChicken · 2023-05-14T16:46:17+00:00

How about this-

Most people by definition are ordinary, chances are, you’re ordinary. If you can’t be happy with what is ordinary you will probably never be happy.

The person who always needs a fancy steak to be happy will be depressed unless he’s Andrew Tate. But if you can happily eat mac and cheese then nobody can take your joy from you.

LingonberryGood3915 · 2023-05-14T17:24:20+00:00

I could easily reverse it. you act as if a womans time was more valuable than a mans time, which is ridiculous. a womans youthful years might be more valuable than a mans youthful years because of the wall, but the reverse happens after 30. an average 30 plus years old man offers more than a 30 year plus woman.

most women are unremarkable and barely any woman adds more than sex if we are honest, while many men add far more.

if we took out sex and children, most women would be utterly useless, not so for the men.

and since 20-27 is shorter than 27 to 70-90, a mans lifetime commitment is far more valuable than a womans lifetime commitment. a mans value goes up until he retires. a womans value stops after the wall or after the children are grown.

its women who should be remarkable and overinvested in their youth to earn a mans 30-60 years of age.

most modern women have no identity beyond being desired sexually.

oooo020201lfl · 2023-05-14T17:38:20+00:00

“Women inherently got more value than men”

Opinion discarded

itm4l2000 · 2023-05-14T20:40:36+00:00

Same question can be asked of a man, why would a man commit to his mortal life for a woman. She SHOULD be impressive. What is your point exactly?

Zabadoodude · 2023-05-13T16:20:18+00:00

He has to offer her more than the alternatives she has. Whether or not that's "a lot" depends on the caliber of woman and how much she likes being single

y2kjanelle · 2023-05-13T19:34:43+00:00

I tried dating a couple of below average to average guys. It was the worst experience. Some user commented that Joe Average will treat you better as if being less attractive automatically makes you a good person.

One of the guys had depression and talked about wanting to kill himself after his ex broke up with him.

Another one said I broke his heart because I didn’t want to go on a second date.

Another put his hand on my car door and refused to let me leave without kissing him.

Another threw his remote at the wall after I didn’t want to have sex until I felt scared and guilty enough to do a sexual act on him.

I have dozens of stories of “taking a chance” on a guy that doesn’t meet my standards, that I’m not super attracted to and being treated very poorly.

Attractiveness is not equal to character. When I raised my standard for treatment and being attracted to my partner, i got a wonderful partner who I feel lucky to have every day. I do everything I can to make him feel loved and wanted and appreciated because he deserves it and is confident that he believes he deserves that too. Same with me. I work hard to be a good person and partner and believe I deserve to be treated well.

Safinated · 2023-05-13T16:20:26+00:00

Pussy is one of the most valuable things in the world to men, not women, because men have decided it is.

Mr_Chad_Thunderpenis · 2023-05-13T18:42:01+00:00

Unimpressive women can rent a rich Chad for a night or two, but they can't buy a rich Chad, they can't afford him. Only impressive women can actually buy a rich Chad. It's like renting a lamborghini for the weekend versus buying a lamborghini. One will cost you like 2k, the other costs 300k. A lot of people have 2k, not many have 300k to drop for a car. Unimpressive women can stay single and keep renting Chads until their currency(looks) runs out, while unimpressive men can stay single and rent hot escorts until their money runs out. We are at an impasse here.

DerayRevan · 2023-05-13T15:34:46+00:00

"Surely you wouldn't care if they didn't want to be with you"

Nah l don't care, am only in it for the sex

Been like this since day 1

Too many men emotionally scare/hurt themselves when romantic feelings are involved, since most guys don't have options

My friend one time got rejected by this girl he was romantically obsessed with for over a year, got depressed the entire week and nihilistic

Most guys are worse, they start doing drugs and attempt killing themselves

So romance is a death sentence in today's dating world for men

"Women have inherently got more value than men"

Ehh it depends

If l took 10 men and women, gave them 10 years to accomplish something great or impact the world, most likely it's going to be the men

But in the context of dating sure

But many women have to accept they'll always be valued for just their beauty and not accomplishments

purplish_possum · 2023-05-13T22:08:31+00:00

WTF? Sex isn't that serious. Lots of women just want to fuck (but only attractive guys). No need to get any deeper.

Blondefairy25 · 2023-05-14T07:01:30+00:00

Exactly. I’m not letting any man in, even just for sex. Let alone one I want to be with for life.

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wtknight · 2023-05-13T16:37:32+00:00

[permanently deleted]

esdebah · 2023-05-13T18:59:25+00:00

I mean, I suppose that depends on the lady, right? The fellow is doing the same, right? And not everyone has the same concept of 'impressive;' not everyone places the same value on it.

Anxious-Tailor-7182 · 2023-05-13T20:27:49+00:00

But average guy isn't impressive just like average woman. And most of them are married by some reason. Which means you don't need to be "impressive" to find a couple.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-05-14T01:22:02+00:00

Women have inherently more value by a certain metric or perspective, but that is not the only one we should be using.

nothatyoucare · 2023-05-14T01:49:01+00:00

In your opinion, is the same expectation on the woman? Do she need to be pretty impressive and not just some girl who exists?

Plopolok · 2023-05-14T02:19:15+00:00

That's your choice, you want "being impressive" as a mate selection criteria. It seems very common in females, not so much in males. (When a man decides to commit for life to one woman, she's de facto impressive in his eyes, but it doesn't imply that she would impress anyone else, he doesn't care much if the rest of the world sees her as just a woman that exists. (Although usually he would prefer a pretty one, so unless he has weird taste the rest of the world would also see her as a pretty woman, which is universally impressive). In fact men tend to like having their women wearing hijabs and providing only minimal interactions to other men, while being devoted to only him. It's her relationship with him (and potentially their children) that impresses him, much more than the person.)

We can't really challenge your personal choice, not anymore that you could challenge Leo's choice of dumping his girlfriends when they turn 25, or someone's taste for pineapple on pizza. We could only argue about whether, on a macro level, a society where this choice is prevalent would be sustainable.

RedditAlt999 · 2023-05-14T03:02:23+00:00

You get one life. Why would a woman commit herself to one guy for decades

Because most women don't want to sleep around with different partners for their whole life.

Well if you don’t think they’re bringing anything to the table, why the hell do you wanna be with them so bad

Marriage rates are down because men are the ones who propose. Until you find me a statistic/study on engagements that fell through before the wedding, marriage rates will be always be tied to proposals which are almost always initaed by men.

But women have inherently got more value than men and everyone knows this,

How? Like bearing children? I don't really want children, so I don't see the value. At least men are primarily the breadwinners, provide physical protection and can physically do things women can't. What does the woman typically do in a marriage? To be completely honest, I don't have the need for a regular sexual partner SO MUCH that I need to get married.

Ok_Entrepreneur2931 · 2023-05-14T04:17:51+00:00

You get one life. Why would a woman commit herself to one guy for decades, unless he is impressive and offers her a lot?

What does she bring to the table?

Dating and casual sex might be very easy for women, because men don't feel need to be very selective when they're not making firm commitments. Marriage is not the same. A man is sacrificing a lot to marry you, if you don't have highly desirable traits yourself then don't expect to land a top-tier man.

But women have inherently got more value than men

Value is normative.

NoobSaw · 2023-05-14T04:26:44+00:00

This is true for any marriage/romantic commitment between two people???

And how does women have inherently more value?

rantsincognito · 2023-05-14T04:45:07+00:00

But women have inherently got more value than men and everyone knows this, if you don’t believe this to be true then mgtwo

This is so laughably untrue. If women inherently had more value, they would not have been second class citizens everywhere that mattered for most of human history, and still most places in the modern day. Women only "have more value" because the West simps for them. You don't even have to "mgtow" to see how stupid this point is. I've been dating women since college and am in a LTR now, and can see how that's not true.

nicethingyoucanthave · 2023-05-14T09:01:40+00:00

women have inherently got more value than men

Young women do, yes.

If a man's value is providing, then his value is fairly constant from year to year - and actually it increases into his 40s at least. If a woman's value is youth and beauty, then it's a bright star that burns out quickly.

The reason your view on this issue is wrong, and should be changed, is that you are only considering the instantaneous value. You need to consider the sum over a number of years.

I realize there's no standard metric for this, but if there was, then you could put a specific number on a 25 year old man who has some specific ability to provide (some salary) and a 45 year old man who makes the same. Call that value X.

If you're a woman and you stay with that man from 25 to 45, and if his value to you is approximately "X" each year, then his total value is 20X

In reality, he gets raises and stuff, so his total value for that entire time is >20X

Now do the woman. What's her value to the man? Well, it's mostly youth and beauty. At 25, let's say her value is Y. I'm very happy to concede that Y is greater than X. But her youth and beauty declines so at 45 it's much, much less than Y.

Therefore if you're a man and you stay with her for 20 years, the total value you get is less than 20Y. If we imagine her value will decline linearly, like this* then the total value is 10Y.

So, addressing your view directly: Yes, Y (a woman's instantaneous value) is greater than X (the man's value). But is 20X greater than 10Y? That's the question you need to consider.

...and you need to consider that question pretty quickly. Because the lifetime sum also decreases for each year you wait before committing to that man. The sums decrease like this: https://i.imgur.com/hqXUSNC.png

* Red pillers tend to believe it does not decline linearly - we believe in this thing we call "the wall" so we believe the value is less than 10Y. The math on this looks a lot worse from the red pill perspective.

FutureBannedAccount2 · 2023-05-15T23:03:00+00:00

Why would this man who is impressive and offers her a lot commit himself? I'd argue it's much easier to get many women as an impressive man than to get many men as an impressive woman.

Also most people are average by definition of the word, so the people they date will also be average.

cloudsongs_ · 2023-05-16T03:50:09+00:00

We offer one another enough and whatever we’re not receiving, we compromise. If the other can’t provide, you find solutions together. I don’t think it’s possible to end up with the perfect person (because you’ll grow older and change as people and have arguments, etc). You only have one life so find someone who most suits your values and life goals and stick with them as long as you both want to be around each other.

DrawerOk2461 · 2023-05-17T21:11:14+00:00

For a man to want to commit most of his mortal life to a woman and grant her exclusive access, she SHOULD be pretty impressive, not just a gal who exists

Title	CMV : For a woman to want to commit most of her mortal life to a man and grant him exclusive access, he SHOULD be pretty impressive, not just a guy who exists
Author	Cjaylyle
Upvotes	103
Comments	228
Date	May 13, 2023 3:11 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/13gk21t/cmv_for_a_woman_to_want_to_commit_most_of_her/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-for-a-woman-to-want-to-commit-most-of-her.1219167 https://theredarchive.com/post/1219167

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