Q4M: When you say “women are wonderful” effect, can you provide some examples of why, how, and what is causing that effect?

Western-Region4267 · 2024-04-30T02:09:25+00:00

People generally have a more favorable bias towards women because men are biologically more threatening and socially more emotionally distant. That’s all there is to it really.

Muscletov · 2024-04-30T06:06:18+00:00

One major manifestation of the Women are Wonderful effect can be observed when people talk about standards, especially appearance-related ones.

When women have (superficial) standards, it's always considered an innocent "preference" everyone just has to deal with. When men have superficial standards, it's considered hurtful and an attack against the entire female gender. E.g. "no fat chicks" is considered hate, "no short dudes" is considered fine.

Another pretty specific example: white men who are into asian women are called "yellow fever creeps", yet the asian women who exclusively go for white guys aren't even part of the conversation, although the attraction is very mutual.

TheGreatBeefSupreme · 2024-04-30T01:21:32+00:00

The women-are-wonderful effect is the phenomenon found in psychological and sociological research which suggests that people associate more positive attributes with women when compared to men. This bias reflects an emotional bias toward women as a general case. The phrase was coined by Alice Eagly and Antonio Mladinic in 1994 after finding that both male and female participants tend to assign positive traits to women, with female participants showing a far more pronounced bias. Positive traits were assigned to men by participants of both genders, but to a far lesser degree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-are-wonderful_effect

Necessary-Ask-3619 · 2024-04-30T05:28:56+00:00

You know how when men call cops about DV and cops instead believe he must be the perpetrator? Women getting more custody by default unless men contest it? When you see a stranger in trouble, they are more likely to get help if they are women. The idea that women are better parents because they are more involved when it's usually because them not being the primary breadwinner allows them to more time to spend with kids. That's al because of WAW effect.

What are some examples of why women are deemed “wonderful”?

There are no examples of something women do that makes them deemed as wonderful. It's mostly evolutionary and cultural brainwashing.

Who is deeming women wonderful compared to men?

Both genders.

What are women doing to be deemed wonderful?

This is the wrong question. The claim isn't that women are doing something wonderful. The claim is that women ARE wonderful simply because they are women.

Why don’t women bring up “women are wonderful” or feel “women are wonderful” as much as men seem to?

For the same reason handsome people don't bring up Halo effect.

Where does that stereotype of “women are wonderful” come from?

It's not a stereotype but a human bias due to evolutionary reasons.

Alternative_Poem445 · 2024-04-30T01:33:28+00:00

one of the causes is that women have an in group bias, and i've at least heard it explained that the reason for that is women are more likely to believe the statement "what is good for all women is good for me", not sure how true that is.

Meme_Devil12388 · 2024-04-30T06:18:41+00:00

A pretty good example of WaW is how often a story in which the woman(en) is/are indisputably in-the-wrong gets called an incel false-flag/creative writing exercise. That kind of skepticism is much more rare in the male versions.

neinhaltchad · 2024-04-30T02:34:36+00:00

You’re all over this thread hand waving away legitimate answers.

Your entire premise is in bad faith because you have clearly started from the premise that “it is only logical to see women as better, more altruistic and moral than men”

Now you’ll deny it, but anybody with a rudimentary level of understanding debate tactics knows that you are fishing for answers that confirm your emotionally arrived at conclusion: “men are scary and bad”

Like many women, you are treating this as a zero sum game “if men do X and women do Y and Y is less bad than X, it’s only natural for people to thin women are better than men.

That’s not what WaW is.

A very simple example of WaW is people’s tendency to hear of a woman cheating and wonder aloud “what did HE do to MAKE her cheat?”

It also is the mentality that will trivialize 100 instances of women being emotionally manipulative, abusive and even violent towards men (See: The Talk clip) while dogpiling a man for even DEFENDING himself (see: Dr Phil clip) because, WaW makes people believe that until that one act of extreme violence committed by a man is addressed, the 100 acts by a woman is of no importance.

And as others have pointed out, half of your replies on this very thread are examples of WaW thinking at work.

As far as the red herring obsessing over the “why”, the answer is simple.

Women have built in in-group bias because they are incapable of physically defending themselves and thus often “circle the wagons” even around bad women, lest they do something “”bad” themselves.

Men give women the benefit of the doubt because they are competing to be selected by those women as mates.

The real issue shows up when this type of bias becomes public policy (and it absolutely has) and is quite similar to the way race based prejudices had to be addressed systematically over time.

rma5690 · 2024-04-30T07:01:44+00:00

When everything bad that happens to men is armchair psychoanalyzed, it invariably draws the conclusion that men are inferior to women in some way.

Men are more lonely? That's because women are better at making friends.

Men are falling behind in school? That's because women work harder.

Men are dying prematurely? That's because women take better care of their personal health.

Men are killing themselves more? That's because women are better at processing their emotions.

Men can't get a date? That because women make better dating profiles.

Men are framed as the villain in virtually all discussion on gender in the public sphere and when they are treated as victims- it must be caveated that they are only victims because of their intellectual, moral, and emotional inferiority to women.

ATasteofTx214 · 2024-04-30T01:30:46+00:00

The nursery rhyme:

What are little boys made of? Snips, snails And puppy-dogs' tails That's what little boys are made of

What are little girls made of? Sugar and spice And everything nice That's what little girls are made of

Sparkling_gourami · 2024-04-30T03:49:25+00:00

Beyond what other people are saying here, I’d guess it has to do with the fact that pretty much every humans first attachment to another human is to their mother. A baby that feels more attached to women would probably be more likely to survive than one that felt just as attached to men. Babies 10,000 years ago would just die if they weren’t drawn to their mother.

Our “first” everything leaves a pretty impactful experience on us. I’m still very attracted to women that look similar to my first girlfriend. Mothers are the first people we feel loved and protected by. We probably just naturally feel more at ease around women.

That raises the question, would a child raised by two gay men show the same “women are wonderful” bias?

Im_Unsure_For_Sure · 2024-04-30T08:40:46+00:00

In my lived experience it's more "men aren't wonderful".

I only spend time in progressive spaces so that's a filter for sure, but in those spaces, women seem to be evaluated as individuals before any assumptions are applied.

Men are unfortunately the closest thing these spaces have as a generic enemy, so they are required to start off bearing the weight of the bad men most women have previously encountered.

It's a similar phenomenon in incels and their attitude towards women but society, rightfully so, shames them for this ridiculousness.

Commercial_Tea_8185 · 2024-04-30T08:44:25+00:00

I mean, women are wonderful, im just sayin im just sayinn

RinoaRita · 2024-05-01T00:31:28+00:00

I think it’s the ripple effect of the most terrible people are men. So let’s say the odds of a guy being a killer/rapist/violent etc is .000001% but a woman’s is .00000001%. The odds of a random guy being worse than a bear is that low.

But the news likes to report sensational stories and men are 100x likelier to have committed those acts.

It’s all in how you frame it. Men are only .00000099% likelier to offend than a woman or men are 100x likelier to offend than a woman. Obviously real stats would different and even collected stats are subject to biases. But I used easy number to demonstrate the point that women are wonderful effects stems from the most terrible people are men

PyropeKun · 2024-05-02T01:03:13+00:00

Bro, not all women are wonderful. But have yous seen most men these days? DAWG. Them dankes are not schoon, that's all I gots to say.

noafrochamplusamurai · 2024-04-30T01:39:37+00:00

Easy, the old adage: "Women are the fairer sex". Female on male domestic violence is trivialized. There's the female anthem "Before He Cheats". Which encourages women to commit a felony. There's also rape laws that define it strictly as a male act, because women wouldn't possibly do such a thing.

The most insidious WAW effect starts at very young ages. The discipline gap

https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/04/school-discipline-disparities-exist-in-race-gender-and-ability.html

treadmarks · 2024-04-30T02:59:15+00:00

Domestic violence is a good example. Women are just as likely to hit their partners, but it gets laughed off. If a man is accused though, he's arrested on the spot.

If a woman is physically assaulting a man in public and he hits back, he'll get ganged up on by white knights.

KayRay1994 · 2024-04-30T02:42:59+00:00

I think there is some truth in the phrase - ie. many men are willing to overlook flaws many women would have and would be even willing to outright excuse it - or rationalize nearly anything a woman would do. This is very similar to white knighting or simping

That all being said, the phrase is over sensationalized and has lost a lot of of its meaning since it’s pretty much used by some to dismiss any point a man makes to defend or support a woman. Think of it as the same thing as simp, are there real simps? 1000% - but the phrase has been extended to pretty much any man who treats his partner well

GridReXX · 2024-04-30T05:48:25+00:00

TV shows and ads are an example.

In nearly every sitcom, TV show, advert, and so on, men are idiots, and women are smart, mature, and level-headed.

In other words, WAW

ej_theraider · 2024-04-30T17:57:46+00:00

If a breakup happens or in the event of a toxic relationship (without knowing the context or reason) ppl automatically assume the woman is the victim.

But slowly the "women are wonderful effect" is being replaced by the "females are full of shit effect". Basically the opposite extreme.

MattPayneWrestler · 2024-05-01T09:58:15+00:00

Men are horny for attractive women’s bodies, therefore women’s bodies are whats considered wonderful. Thats is all. Nobody thinks unattractive women are wonderful

MikeArrow · 2024-04-30T01:40:52+00:00

Sure, I have a quick and clear example.

Two women were added to my team at work last month.

One of them I find attractive and one I don't.

The one I'm attracted to I have all the time in the world for, will spend as long as she needs answering questions and giving support. Helping her makes me feel good, like it lifts my spirits and I go about my day happier than before.

The other I get kind of irritated at her asking questions and just want to answer them quickly so I can get back to my work. I'm still professional and all, but there's a definite difference in my attitude.

I sound like a real jerk when I phrase it like that, but it's true.

caption291 · 2024-04-30T01:55:56+00:00

What are some concrete facts or experiences for why “women are wonderdul” is a thing in your opinion?

Women are the limiting factor of reproduction. They are more important to the survival of the tribe which means their lives have to be valued more by default aka "Women and children first" type stuff.

Who is deeming women wonderful compared to men?

Both genders but women moreso than men.

What are women doing to be deemed wonderful?

Nothing.

Why don’t women bring up “women are wonderful” or feel “women are wonderful” as much as men seem to?

Because it's not in their selfish interest to complain or even point out their own privilege.

BoomTheBear86 · 2024-04-30T13:31:55+00:00

Why? A long tradition of socialised gynocentricism.

What? Take a trip over to relationship advice. Plenty of examples of threads where a woman and a man are having issues (such as a massive imbalance in household responsibilities with him picking it up) and you will absolutely in all cases find comments in the thread that question her welfare, ask the consideration of whether she’s depressed, sick or otherwise “not coping” basically, her lack of ideal behaviour will be sought to be excused in some manner. You see this in cheating threads too (what did he do or not do to make her do that?)

When the dynamic is the other way around, you are hard pressed to find comments that seek to excuse the man’s behaviour, very little consideration of whether he has personal problems or not.

Honestly, with many of the threads (particularly the ones dealing with situations with kids) you’d think 100% of mothers are diagnosed with post partum depression given how things are discussed. Any time there’s an issue with a child under 2 in the picture, suddenly she “probably has it, that’s why.”. It’s like what, one in 7/8 women? So not the majority.

So yeah. Take a look in subs like that and you’ll generally see a “benefit of doubt” tends to be extended to women way more than men receive. Even responses where the women is being criticised (like she’s effectively being controlling) tend to be gentler in how they’re phrased with a man displaying similar behaviour being told stuff like he needs to be arrested, how he’s a psycho etc. the woman “you should seek therapy”.

It’s pretty obvious when you look for it. So subtle that it’s easy to miss as well.

Who? Society in general.

What they do? Nothing. It’s an essential characteristic being ascribed to them which shades how all other characteristics are judged. There are literally studies on this.

Why don’t women bring it up? Because for you it’s “normal”…? Also the strong in group bias of women means they tend not to empathise with men very well so even if they do recognise it, and how it doesn’t work to men’s favour, that doesn’t mean they’d care.

I’m think it’s one of those situations like when women say “you’ll never know how it feels to be catcalled growing up”. Most women won’t see this because they’re not in the position to see/experience what it feels like to witness someone getting preferential treatment or judgement merely based on gender.

Internet is good though because you have situations where gender is ambiguous and when made clear people change…

There was a really good thread in relationship advice a while ago (I’ll see if I can find the link then return). Basically the OP was asking whether it was appropriate for them to “cut out” their cousin and their soon to be husband because OP was “in love” with the guy who was marrying the cousin.

A lot of comments took a sympathic stance and labelled the cousin a snake for doing that to OP when they knew OP liked the guy. They said the reaction was okay and generally it was big in the “you poor thing”.

Then someone did digging. Turns out OP was a gay man. You will NOT believe the 180 the post received. Suddenly OP is delusional for thinking the guy would be with them and was behaving like a child.

Very good example of WoW. Apparently it is totally fine for a woman to behave as if a man “could ever be with her” (even if he says absolutely not) and pine for him. But if it’s a man in the same situation being told “absolutely not” he needs to move on and stop being delusional.

Thread revealed it in two ways actually, because even though the guy rejected the OP directly, people were behaving like OP still had some kind of justification for “hanging in there” and hating her cousin even when it was totally clear he never wanted to be with her. Not so when OP was shown to be a man. All the sympathy dried up so fast it was unbelievable.

I was one of the few in the thread arguing how it is irrelevant whether OP is a gay man or a straight woman, the guy rejected then, they had no chance either way so they need to get over it, grow up and move on. People were arguing how it “matters that OP could have hypothetically been with the guy though” even though he directly rejected her. Like how delusional is that? It doesn’t matter what the guy actually says, it matters what in theory in another situation he could have said.…? Crazy.

But you see this in dating spaces. Guy is turned down? Move the fuck on. Woman? “Aww his loss hun his loss”. You guys are used to it so of course you don’t see it.

This is why most women get completely shocked when they do experience a rejection without coddling, because they don’t have this experience of something not going their way and people not giving you condolences or comforts. They’re so used to being comforted in their disappointment. Men are socialised to get used to it and move on. We then wonder why men seem “emotionally distant”. Couldn’t make it up.

knowbudi · 2024-04-30T01:53:51+00:00

It’s just a simple cognitive bias in favor of women. Who’s more likely to receive compassion from a random person on the street, an average woman who seems sad, or a homeless man? Who would seemingly actually need it more?

Who faces more hostility when trying to join social groups?

Why are there orders of magnitude more women’s shelters than men’s shelters when women are actually statistically more likely to engage in domestic violence?

Here’s an experiment of reactions to gendered violence in public where people intervene when women are the victims, but not in the reverse case:

https://youtu.be/xEZH6YSQvwA?si=4veBFn16Ud9hghkz

Why does it exist?

Simple. Sperm is cheap and eggs are expensive. In the days when more than half of your children die before they reach puberty, men have to prove themselves to not be a liability, while women are born with value by virtue of the ability to give birth.

Making men disposable and women protected is a highly successful strategy in the violent and chaotic world of prehistory. Men support random women and women support random women. No one supports random men instinctively.

It’s a cognitive bias left over from our ancestors that needs to go. It’s no one’s fault but everyone’s responsibility.

Purple_Kangaroo8549 · 2024-04-30T02:42:45+00:00

There's a default assumption that physical inferiority is equal to moral superiority(this is very clearly demonstrated in politics too). It's a core part of the defective libshit world view that happens to rotting away western society.

DarayRaven · 2024-04-30T05:43:18+00:00

What are some concrete facts or experiences for why “women are wonderdul” is a thing in your opinion?

Gynocentrism

What are some examples of why women are deemed “wonderful”?

Simping/pedestalizing the female perspective

What are women doing to be deemed wonderful?

They aren't doing anything, the women are wonderful effect is just men projecting their view on women

Why don’t women bring up “women are wonderful” or feel “women are wonderful” as much as men seem to?

Anything that puts women in some bad light, they'll never admit

Where does that stereotype of “women are wonderful” come from?

It ain't a stereotype but more so a social/psychological phenomenon many guys exhibit, many guys simply have this innate thought process to view women as the more perfect gender

jazzmaster1992 · 2024-04-30T01:56:26+00:00

This is another one of those things that seems easily proven through a combination of anecdotal evidence, and collective experiences of men shared online. But it's easily disproven in the same way.

I've seen sentiments that women are generally kinder, nicer, more mature and better company, echoed throughout social media as well as sometimes IRL. I actually just came across that sentiment not too long ago on FB, where people were saying the usual "women are great, men are trash" type stuff.

There is some new "trend" of comparing men to bears and saying women would prefer a bear because even though it would maul you, the violence is predictable. It's an absurd thought experiment that kind of, sort of illustrates a point that certain men can dangerous and predatory in manipulative and unpredictable ways. But like always it ends up becoming a soap box for women (and men) who seem to really dislike men as a group and need to rationalize it.

So seeing posts and comments like that, it's easy to see why one might think there's this pervasive thought that women are universally praised and loved, and men are universally despised or feared. Except that's clearly not true, because there are countless other echo chambers where men (and women) shit on women calling them used up, post-wall 304s or whatever else. The people on either end of the extreme are usually rather, uh, terminally online and probably not worth paying much if any attention to.

Is there some broader societal belief that women are just better than men because they're more compassionate, or that they're so attractive on average that people are willing to overlook any bad behavior? Maybe. I'd say women are arguably more "socially desirable" in a way most men simply aren't, but even this experience varies massively for individual women.

SlowEffective8146 · 2024-04-30T07:50:22+00:00

Ah discussing bias with one of the more biased mods here, this shouldn't be problematic at all

What are some concrete facts or experiences for why “women are wonderdul” is a thing in your opinion?

Men think whiteknighting/simping gets them more pussy or brownie points.
Women have strong in-group bias.
You need both of these to have a successful WAW effect, if it was just 1 or the other, there would be no WAW.

What are some examples of why women are deemed “wonderful”?

Women are deemed wonderful as an evolutionary advantage. Since they are weaker, they are a protected class. In more harsh living conditions, women need to be able to survive for continued procreation. This just hasn't gone away in much the same way many caveman traits won't go away for men.

What are women doing to be deemed wonderful?

They aren't doing anything, being born a woman gets you favoritism right off the bat.

Why don’t women bring up “women are wonderful” or feel “women are wonderful” as much as men seem to?

Schrodinger's feminism. Why would a woman ever bring up something that positively effects them? Women don't want ACTUAL equality. In fact, feminism only exists because of WAW. Women's issues get priority over men's, it's just fact.

You don't think it's kind of a dystopian joke that male suicide is this high) yet you still have women complaining about the patriarchy?

Where does that stereotype of “women are wonderful” come from?

My earliest encounter with WAW stereotypes is media just like yours. Even shit like "The Simpsons" does this. Homer is a bumbling fat idiot while Marge is just an angel. Kevin James is a bumbling fat idiot in King of Queens, his wife is a saint, Etc etc to infinity.

eye_of_gnon · 2024-04-30T12:37:09+00:00

I'm pretty sure the effect is just dudes feeling horny and women reminding them or their moms, a nice teacher, or something like that.

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Infinite_Street6298 · 2024-05-03T05:47:01+00:00

It's just the halo effect. Women are naturally seen as innocent, beautiful, desirable, etc and therefore all of their positive traits are perceived as amplified and their negative traits are perceived as diminished.

Men can also benefit from the halo effect but it's generally not as instantaneous as with women. Just look at how the world reacts when a cute woman is killed or goes missing vs when some disheveled homeless male war vet OD's.

RemainderZero · 2024-05-03T23:29:16+00:00

Check out the Gamma Bias

shadowrangerfs · 2024-05-05T09:45:15+00:00

This goofy man vs bear thing going around is good example.

The argument for choosing the bear is that a man is more likely to attack you. But so is a woman. More women are killed by other women than by bears. But no one would choose the bear over a woman.

The other version of the question is if your young child was lost in the woods. A grown woman is bigger, faster, and stronger than your young child and can overpower them. Also, more children are killed by women than by bears. But no one would ever say that they'd rather their lost child encounter a bear than a woman.

emorizoti · 2024-04-30T02:27:36+00:00

Let's make a reverse of roles. If a guy behaves nicely, isn't agressive, takes care of his appearance alot and acts soft or opens up about his feelings is seen as feminine. All of these are percieved as positive traits if not assigned to any gender, and none of these equal a negative image. A masculine women, can be described as being too dominant, focused on a career or money, acts and talks in a rude or rough manner and has an attitude. While none of these traits are percieved as very bad, they can create a negative image.

But I guess is because of society conditions associating women with soft and nice. Therefore women are wonderful.

raldabos · 2024-04-30T07:07:20+00:00

Biggest example is one that even women themselves do: They don't care for physicial appereance, they are looking to have a serious relationship and they only care about what's inside, if you're a decent men, women will be attracted to you because they only look for nice men <3.

Men are disgusting pigs who only care about ass and tits.

As to why, I think is some sort of defense mechanism.

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2024-04-30T03:26:28+00:00

Consent: assumed to be something men get from women, but never the other way around.

https://np.reddit.com/r/AWDTSGisToxic/s/K8i29vr6xS

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Title	Q4M: When you say “women are wonderful” effect, can you provide some examples of why, how, and what is causing that effect?
Author	GridReXX
Upvotes	7
Comments	332
Date	April 30, 2024 1:14 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1cgg8po/q4m_when_you_say_women_are_wonderful_effect_can/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4m-when-you-say-women-are-wonderful-effect-can.1516854 https://theredarchive.com/post/1516854

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