There is no excuse to be attracted to shitty women, especially when you berate bad boy chasers.

driggsky · 2024-10-20T15:00:00+00:00

How are you defining shitty woman?

arvada14 · 2024-10-20T14:31:47+00:00

Lilith, men take responsibility when they date crazy women. We have the saying don't put you d*ck in crazy.

If a guy is dating a crazy woman, it's because he wants sex and accepts the consequences.

Cactaceaemomma · 2024-10-20T21:40:32+00:00

Anybody who says "all men" or "all women" are wrong. I think that's the core issue here. If this sub would just accept that fact, most of these debates would be unnecessary.

kvakerok_v2 · 2024-10-20T15:39:18+00:00

💯% We need more of both slutshaming and simpshaming. Equal opportunity shaming.

John_Oakman · 2024-10-20T19:14:14+00:00

Males frequently warn men to avoid getting into relationships with women that are less than optimal in both unofficial (peer to peer) and official (in the case of US military they literally have classes on why junior enlisted should avoid marrying the first stripper outside of the base) capacities.

That certain particular men/males who lack inhibition and self discipline does not mean the rest of the male population should be on the hook for the consequences of their actions.

QuantityAcademic · 2024-10-20T14:47:41+00:00

I don't think anyone can control who they are attracted to. The men who say women only want bad guys are just salty that they're not attractive. I know because I used to be one of those guys. Then I realised that this complaining won't get me anything, it's much better to work towards becoming more attractive via plastic surgery.

KentuckyCriedFlickin · 2024-10-20T17:41:04+00:00

I don't even fundamentally disagree with the post. I think that men should stop simping, and maybe that would largely shift the dating dynamics that we have right now.

But, I think that people should also stop pretending that morality and dating go hand-to-hand because it is clearly obvious that they do not.

Hosj_Karp · 2024-10-21T06:33:15+00:00

Theory I might expand on in a full post: people don't actually prefer mean or inconsiderate partners.

Mean and inconsiderate behavior is instead a product of a perceived imbalance in value/status.

It's a matter of getting cause and effect backwards. The fuckboy doesn't have five women in his orbit because he's aloof and disrespectful. He's aloof and disrespectful because he has five women in his orbit. (I've you've ever been in this position, you know how naturally that kind of behavior comes even when you don't really intend it or where hitherto a bad person)

But the behavior itself is actively repulsive. Copying it without actually being attractive/high value will hurt you, not help you.

People desire to be treated well in relationships. But the desire for a high value/attractive partner is even stronger. "Be kind" is good dating advice. But it's not as good as "be hot".

This principle is true for both men and women.

yvaN_ehT_nioJ · 2024-10-21T15:48:00+00:00

But I can save her

Creation_Soul · 2024-10-20T14:28:13+00:00

in theory, everything you said is good. The problem is that people (so both men and women) are not 100% logical creatures and they do and incentivize bad behavior.

It's not a realistic scenario that we will reach a critical mass of men who apply these rules, at least not during our life times. It's similar to smoking: people know it's bad for you, companies know it's bad for people who do it, but people still do buy cigarettes and companies makes billions.

LillthOfBabylon · 2024-10-20T16:00:16+00:00

These explanations really show a moral failing amongst men, and yet they want to lecture women about their own moral failings.

The difference is the women on this sub think they’re bastions of morality, but the same women often say that when they give average looking guys a chance they’re just as abusive as the hot guys, so given a choice between the two, they might as well be with a hot guy who treats them like shit. Narcissists also make up less than 5% of the population yet every woman on Reddit claims to have dated one at some point lol

People want to date hot people, hot people can be shitty because other people let them get away with shitty behavior because of their looks, both men and women do this. Women claim morality through feminism, “nice guys” claim morality through being “nice”, and they’re both hypocrites when they engage in this type of behavior.

Junior_Ad_3086 · 2024-10-20T19:52:29+00:00

the guys who date trainwreck women and act surprised/blame the world when it blows up in their face are just as pathetic as the women who continually go for abusive men in my book. so mostly i agree with you OP, although the difference is that a lot of men can't really be too picky without being chronically single and sexless while women can. i don't think that's an excuse or anything but it makes things more understandable to a degree.

what's interesting however is that many women gaslight and try to shame men when they steer clear of certain red flags that are highly correlated with trainwreck women. i never really see the opposite being the case in that sense.

nightcall379 · 2024-10-20T15:19:55+00:00

Women live in a parallel reality when it comes to dating

The bottom of the barrel in terms of attraction, 70yo grandma will get hundreds of matches with young, average men in their 20's

In other words, bottom of the barrel women have as many options as the less than top 1% of rich, celebrity men

If a woman is dating a degenerate man, she's doing so despite having other options

If a man is dating a degenerate woman, it's because she's his only option to escape loneliness

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2024-10-20T15:26:28+00:00

I got with a good woman, but I know I'm lucky. Good women get taken off the market much faster than good men, because niceness in women is actually attractive to men.

py234567 · 2024-10-20T15:17:37+00:00

I don’t do this at all. Can I say everything in the post??? Or do you just want men to suffer in silence, single, while women are shit with 0 consequences.

Consistent-Career888 · 2024-10-20T15:48:55+00:00

I am not attracted to awful women. Usually their behaviors give them away before any emotional or psychological attraction developes .

You can find someone physically attractive and be disgusted with their behavior.

Or is this seen more in men .

The leading reasons men divorce are

Substance abuse.

criminality,

disrespectful entitled, behavior

Abuse

Infidelity emotional and sexual.

Those are behaviors of awful people. Those behaviors turn men off . Who wants those people in their lives?

Perhaps many women are engaging in awful behaviors? Especially the entitled , arrogant, disrespectful behaviors that disregard others basic rights and dignity as humans.

MC-Purp · 2024-10-20T15:17:45+00:00

Your article says the top search is hentai, and Harley isn’t mentioned in any of the top searches. Im surprised that interracial isn’t in the top 3 anymore.

SirTruffleberry · 2024-10-20T14:48:13+00:00

Actions are one thing, but attraction isn't a choice. If it were, most men would simply choose to be asexual, or perhaps gay.

IcyTrapezium · 2024-10-20T15:29:30+00:00

I’ll say it again: women are attracted to “bad boys” the way men are attracted to “crazy chicks.” What does this mean? First, that physical attraction is the most important thing to most people, not morals or personality. Mature people evolve and care more about that than looks, but it’s usually young men complaining about this. Young women want to have sex with sexy men. Crazy, I know.

Second; bad boys and crazy chicks have something in common: they come across as passionate. Hypersexuality, poor impulse control, erratic behavior. All this is dopamine heaven for humans. Gamblers are addicted to the uncertainty, not the winnings. Humans get addicted to behaviors that intermittently give huge rewards.

Third: who cares? Let young people fuck who they want. Get it out of their system. Go to the gym and learn to be charming if it’s so upsetting.

Who cares about men or women wanting exciting partners? It’s just lust. It’s normal. The excuse is “the propagation of the human species.”

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Bubbly_Pension4020 · 2024-10-20T16:52:30+00:00

I’m not sure if I get your point on here. You’ve made several posts claiming women are not into bad boys, and now you’re claiming men are into bad girls? So, women are not into bad boys, but men are into bad girls is your point?

As for my take. I think most men put bad girls in the slut category. On average women are more likely to just straight up try to fish for commitment from the bad boy even when it’s clear he doesn’t want it.

I will say that’s on average, though. Guys trying to marry prostitutes do exist.

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2024-10-20T18:15:39+00:00

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-passionate-fruit- · 2024-10-21T20:50:13+00:00

u/lillthofbabylon What you're probably seeing is that men are much less discriminate than women who they will get sexual / casually romantic with, but women are perhaps much more prone to initiate serious romance with dark triad partners. What I've inferred is that being really attracted to someone is often enough justification to women to want an LTR with someone, while men tend to have more discretion for that step.

In women's defense, though, the claim that women get way more solicitations for romance is misguided since most of those men wouldn't end up wanting LTR (on top of tending to employ a more shotgun approach to courting generally).

MichalK9 · 2024-10-23T18:47:03+00:00

As a man I agree with you, great post

Snoo71180 · 2024-12-08T12:30:35+00:00

I'm not seeing a specific definition of what a "shitty" woman (or person) constitutes here? One persons definition of "shitty" could be that she dresses slutty and loves attention in public and from men in general, another person could be fine with that but if she didn't graduate college he'd be turned off and put her in the "shitty" category. So defining what a "shitty" or "vile" woman is exactly would help because this seems personal to you

I'm not aware of (or atleast aren't friends with any) men who "lecture" women regardless of what they do with their personal lives. I guess on this site maybe? But in the real world it is very, very rare for men (in the US) to lecture women they've just met or are getting to know about what they perceive to be their moral failings. Men generally aren't offended as easily as you think, and anyone who picks hot only to ignore crazy (man or woman) usually knows what they're doing. If they do it once and get burned then fine they can be pissed but they only have themselves to blame. we're all attracted to what we deem hot women but you're wrong about men not appreciating "nice girls". If a guy is looking just to hook up or doesn't want to find a GF at that time in his life then he won't care if she's nice. If he's more mature emotionally and wanting something real he cares if she's nice and a decent human being for sure.

I had to clarify & correct multiple claims that were made because they weren't accurate unless the poster somehow has authority and knowledge enough to speak for all men? She certainly doesn't have my approval. Oh and if a woman said "men ain't shit" to me it doesn't offend me at all, nor would my friends and most guys I know care after the initial shock wore off.....but if that's how you feel maybe stay away from men?

siletntium · 2024-10-20T14:27:54+00:00

What men have said AWALT isn't offensive?

Furthermore women are the ones that make the claim that men that can't get partners can't get them because they are bad people while simultaneously crying about how abusive their exes are.

Also Harley Quinn is crazy and obsessed with the joker, she's pretty much never depicted as a bad person herself.

AntiHypergamist · 2024-10-20T14:20:59+00:00

We aren't in relationships with terrible women, we're just tired of all the misandry and hate being spread by the female incel brigade online, in government, in the media, and in university.

Artistic_Speech_1965 · 2024-10-20T14:49:58+00:00

Thank you ! That's completly true. People choose attractiveness as a direction by ignorance and are surpised they ended up badly. That's why I am advocating a better educational system directed toward dating but I still recieve some oppositions. At the end of the day, I am asking if people really want to be happy

Reasonable-Cookie783 · 2024-10-20T23:11:05+00:00

I'm not attracted to shitty women. Those men who are losers just like you bad boy lovers are losers. It's a main belief of the red pill. Duh! We do shame those men. Simp!

abaxeron · 2024-10-21T01:38:10+00:00

So women incentive male behavior but men don't incentivize female behavior?

Google "Effect Size".

https://gwern.net/doc/genetics/selection/2014-yao.pdf

Chosen highlights from my older comments:

Both men and women are more likely to be reproductively successful when criminal; for men the effect is much higher. Both men and women are more likely to get prescribed anti-STI drugs when criminal; for men the effect is higher. Both men and women are more likely to be in several consecutive marriages when criminal; for men the effect is higher. For men with 1 conviction, and only for men with 1 conviction, crude probability to be ever married is higher than for every other category of behavior (including non-offender) among any gender (at 95% confidence). Men offenders had on average 1.71 times more reproductive partners than non-offenders (the effect for women offenders is smaller); finally, crude violent conviction of a man was more than twice better associated with number of children by raw estimate than theft conviction, and more than 5 times by adjusted estimate (the effect for women is smaller). Within this sample, a person with 4 paternal (half-)siblings is more likely than not to have a father who has been convicted at least once.

Criminal women were 3.2 times less common than criminal men, making their (relative) assortative mating pool's ratio exceed 10. Despite it being ~10 times easier for criminal women than for criminal men to mate assortatively, they had LESS advantage in reproduction and marriage due to criminality than their male peers. Also, one man can impregnate 72 women within a year (assuming 10 intercourses per conception and 2 intercourses per day), while a woman can only get pregnant from one man at a time. It is objectively harder for men to become official fathers than for women to become official mothers. ALL criminal women within this sample needed only 3 thousand volunteers for regular sex with new partners every 5 days in order for ALL of them to have at least one child. Even if ALL offender men had only one child each, and they found willing women to carry five of those children each, they would still require more than 100 thousand volunteer women. Since 1978, women can have children without having sex at all. The sample within the study has around half a million children with undetermined fathers, which nudges us towards conclusion that "fast life strategy" men's fertility rates are probably underreported.

Is it still possible that women have sex and get into marriages with these men despite not being attracted to them? - Yes, but it necessitates at least one of two assumptions. Either women in arguably the most feminist nation on Earth have no freedom to get with men they like (in which case feminism is useless), or no agency to do so (in which case feminism is wrong). I don't have to choose one of those, you do. ALL of criminal women's husbands and reproductive partners may very well be criminals themselves. AT LEAST SOME of criminal men's wives and reproductive partners HAVE to be female non-criminals. There are more than 3 male criminals for every female criminal.

Jazzlike_Function788 · 2024-10-20T14:20:20+00:00

Ok, they're hypocrites. That by itself doesn't make them wrong. They can be hypocrites and the statement "Women only want assholes" can still be true.

OtPayOkerSmay · 2024-10-20T15:32:45+00:00

Men aren't attracted to shitty women because they're shitty. Attractive, shitty women know how to attract decent men and hide their shittiness. They'll do things like love bombing, or stringing guys along. Bad boys wear their shittiness on their sleeve, because it's part of what women find attractive.

AdEffective7894s · 2024-10-20T16:10:17+00:00

women who are victims of abuse don't deserve to be in relationships, at least not with normal decent men.

as Lilith has said there is no excuse to want them or love them. thee is no consideration or benefit of the doubt to be given to them.

why?

women who went for assholes assholish enough to abuse them are probably not good women. maybe 3/10 were suckered in but at that point is the demographic even worth bothering with if 7/10 are trash teir?
Victims of abuse are more likely to be emotionally and physically abusive to the new beau. I have seen this happen twice where the relationship imploded because the women were unable to let go of their past trauma and end up hurting the men who gave them chances.

In closing, I would add in that any woman who talks about her experience and calls him a douche bag are probably trash teir women to and hence do not deserve attention love and companionship from any normal man who has a problem with women who Chase bad boys.

Savings-Bee-4993 · 2024-10-20T14:35:07+00:00

You imply here attraction is something people have control over. Both the men and women here will tell you that you’re wrong, and you are — people cannot control who they are attracted to immediately.
Nevertheless, attraction is not completely outside of our control. Insofar as someone’s attraction is the function of their incorrect or ‘bad’ views, beliefs, desires, etc., it can be justifiably said that people are engaged in a moral failing by doing nothing about their harmful desires and contributing to this situation in which bad behaviors are rewarded and bad norms further ingrained or justified.
Regardless, there’s nothing weird or wrong with calling out a moral failing even if you’re not perfect yourself. You’re literally doing that right now. If we all had to absolve ourselves completely of imperfection, sin, hypocrisy, etc. before we were allowed to criticize others, no one would be able to say anything. Ever.
You didn’t even include the view that received the most support as to why men may pursue bad women: men who are attention starved and aren’t having their needs or desires met. This is very different from “He’s attracted to her because she’s attractive, not shitty.” Why did you leave out this part of the picture?
In any case, many men and women are engaged in moral failings all the time, because most people in the West are just not good people. People suck because, well, they suck: they do not practice open-mindedness and charity, they are not really interested or committed to improving themselves, they don’t exercise critical thinking, they are possessed by consumerist, hedonistic, and narcissistic tendencies, etc. I suppose you and I can agree on that. The majority of men and women today lack proper priorities, resolve, commitment, resilience, empathy, love, patience, and the other virtues.

KamuiObito · 2024-10-20T15:15:11+00:00

Shitty women doesn’t exist. We aren’t threatened like women are. And most men use these women for sex.ITS WOMEN who make them feel like monsters for itz, womem want men to be taking every girl seriously like yall do with men. Women always think we are like them when we’d never fathom staying in a toxic relationship. We just want consistent pussy..we are not getting beat up and talked down too like yall, worst thing a women can do is have sex with men close to you..or physically try to off you…we are NOT WOMEN STOP EQUALIZING US..MEN DONT LIKE “CONFIDENT”(sociopath) women..we tend to like the nice princess quite one in thr back.,its yall who meed to be incentive by charisma..no women is gaming up a man..idk why yall think we are the same…

purplish_possum · 2024-10-20T15:20:13+00:00

As I posted yesterday -- these issues are best examined through the arts and humanities.

Here's an appropriate song by the best band ever to come out of Saskatewan -- The Northern Pikes. The song's She Ain't Pretty (she just looks that way).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG3ExHB133k

thedarkracer · 2024-10-20T18:17:46+00:00

Hey Lillith, could you show some research about if men like DT as I showed last time that women prefer DT guys.

Also, guys don't like harley for being a bad girl or a bad guy chaser. Do you even know her story?

Lovers691 · 2024-10-20T18:59:11+00:00

Harley Quinn is only there because she everywhere these days even in comics she's overused. As for bad boys/shitty women, both men and women are attracted to attractive people regardless of character but want attractive kind people over attractive assholes

SuckMyBigCockBitch69 · 2024-10-20T19:01:46+00:00

Projection much?

VWGUYWV · 2024-10-20T19:03:06+00:00

The issue is that borderlines etc often present as unicorns

There are so few unicorns, that thinking you’ve found one is actually red flag as there are more that pretend

If a woman seems amazing, is super into you, and banging your brains out….you’ve been warned

TopShelfSnipes · 2024-10-20T19:06:18+00:00

I'm not sure I follow the point you're specifically trying to make in your post besides the point that's in the post title:

Are "Nice Guys Topic" premises 1 through 4 your actual opinions, or parroting incel opinions for purpose of critique? Because I'd argue that 1-3 are false, and 1-4 is true in some cases only.

I've said this before, but I feel strongly that "bad boys/assholes" is a nice guy characterization of confident men, not an objective truth. Men who are spineless, nice, and available see flirting as forward and aggressive and therefore imply lack of consent when in truth many women are cool with it and actually enjoy it. So when they see a guy resting his hand on a girl's arm while whispering in her ear, they see a manipulative asshole/PUA type who's just trying to get in her pants and doesn't care about her. When in reality, that guy might just be confident and flirting, and have her full consent.

I don't believe that most women go for shitty men. I believe that - for lack of a better term - ghetto/trailer park women go for shitty men, but that's just life in those hellholes in general, and most of those people can't do better because anyone with half a brain would run after 15 seconds of talking to those types (regardless of gender).

So, notwithstanding the hood and trailer parks, I'd argue that a small subset of the population, usually with unresolved childhood trauma or mental illness, will be attracted to toxic people.

There is a tendency to overlook this if the person is hot enough but this typically only happens once before most people learn from it and move on. It's not a pattern within the lives of individuals though it can be a trend of less experienced people who don't know how to identify problem behavior and red flags.

In the case of men who habitually date shitty women, I believe many men have serious self-esteem/confidence issues which is why so many "take what they can get" because it's easier to take something easy than to work on yourself to get something better. These men lack standards IMO and take what they can get because they find it preferable to being alone. I don't think this is a healthy way to do things.

'Friendzone' type/'nice guy' type guys literally don't present as strong males at all, which is unattractive, and furthermore only tend to attract attention from people who might use them since they are seen as spineless/available. Thus they take what they can get.

There's more to this, but this is my theory on the matter in a nutshell.

ArtifactFan65 · 2024-10-20T19:20:24+00:00

All women are amoral, like men they simply do what's in their best interest

LordShadows · 2024-10-20T20:50:49+00:00

To be fair, Harley Queen is the victim of an abusive relationship.

Dorian Gray is the abusive partner.

Not the best example to use to make your point.

And, here is the frustration, guys will be generally be atracted to both the healthy and unhealthy girls.

Women are usually the ones filtering. They have a bigger power and, thus, responsibilities in their choices of partners.

I wouldn't say you're completely wrong, though. Men tend to be harsher onto women than themselves for their choice of partners. But women tend to be harsher on men, too.

When women complain about their relationships, other women tend to say that it is the fault of their partners. When men complain about relationships, women tend to say it's their fault.

You could inverse the genders, and it will still be true.

With the exception that people tend to see women as natural victims and men as natural aggressors.

So, even with the tendencies human have to see people in the opposed group as worse than themselves, there is going to be a push for men to seek other men as guilty more often than women will see other women as guilty.

It's because sociocultural preconceptions affect us even if we know they are wrong. And even more if we believe they have some truth.

theitchcockblock · 2024-10-21T01:14:50+00:00

Point one is valid he has no options so he gets what he can , the 2nd point is more comparable with the scenario you are writing but a guy who dates attractive with shitty attitude women like gold diggers can definitely get an attractive woman who has way better personality he just chose wrong , I think women would always prefer the adrenaline inducing bad boy than just a good hubby who’s boring despite probably have his shit together .Most men want the submissive big titty blond and blue eyed girl that is harmless and would never plot to take over his savings

SolidusMonkey · 2024-10-21T16:00:26+00:00

And then the audacity to use Fifty Shades of Grey as an example of women being attractive to abusive assholes, but then give excuses why Harley Quinn being a top porn tag doesn’t show that men like psycho girls who date abusive psycho men.

This is a terrible comparison. Guys jack off to Harley Quinn; they don't fantasize about dating and marrying her.

Lower-Director1043 · 2024-10-20T18:36:26+00:00

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, you are funny.

Title	There is no excuse to be attracted to shitty women, especially when you berate bad boy chasers.
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	79
Comments	374
Date	October 20, 2024 2:08 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1g7zjbd/there_is_no_excuse_to_be_attracted_to_shitty/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/there-is-no-excuse-to-be-attracted-to-shitty-women.1533064 https://theredarchive.com/post/1533064

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