Do people REALLY believe AFBB does not exist?

Niki_Biryani · 2020-02-27T17:20:03+00:00

As a beta who gets treated absolutely terribly by woman I go out with. Yeah, this is pretty common. AFBB does exist!

goatismycopilot · 2020-02-27T15:37:38+00:00

I am confused some girl gets bored of having sex with you and finds somebody she actually likes and bails?

flamingoinghome · 2020-02-27T15:53:04+00:00

So....a girl breaks up with a guy because he won't give her the relationship she wants, and then dates someone who will? What's going on here that suggests anything beyond "dating people until one works out"?

The women in your stories are all young, from the sound of it--it's not like they're in a panic to have kids or something. They just won't wait around forever for noncommittal schmucks.

And since you consider yourself to be on the "AF" side of things.... how, exactly, do you know what these other men's sex lives are like? And how do you know they'd have preferred a noncommittal thing? Perhaps they like these women and want to be their boyfriends?

Sir_manalot · 2020-02-27T17:02:56+00:00

I think AFBB is men looking at women date other guys and making up some post hoc rationalization for why she did it. They do not know the insides of the relationships and they can only guess based on the appearance of the boyfriends as to who is AF or BB. When I was young I dated betas who treated me badly and then I wised up and now I have my alpha who is my world. But if you, the outside observer, saw these men you would never guess which ones treated me badly based on appearance and which ones were sweet to me.

diffdedbed · 2020-02-27T15:36:43+00:00

In my own shoes: banging and hooking up with girls who tried to get me to commit, I shut it down and we carry on business as usual... only until she drops me to seriously date some guy who’s a teacher.

You didn't give her what she wanted and she moved on, therefore what?

When I was fucking around was I "alpha" and now that I'm married I'm "beta"?

While women who marry the sad sack for money an security undoubtedly happens, its not how all women act or why they do so.

findingfemininity · 2020-02-27T16:03:01+00:00

Because men aren't either "AF" or "BB". Lots of men will go through periods of having casual sex until they find someone they like enough for an LTR. Maybe the teacher and the clean cut guy in your scenario were banging other broads before they decided to girlfriend one of them.

The insistence on AF/BB always struck me as something made up by men who never experienced the hookup scene when they were young.

teibe · 2020-02-27T16:12:03+00:00

AFBB is male projection of their own nature onto women. Men want to sleep around until they feel validated enough and then settle down with a nice, non slutty girl.

NarniaFox · 2020-02-27T15:52:14+00:00

You do know that anyone could list cases of the opposite experience, don't you?

Sir_manalot · 2020-02-27T16:51:37+00:00

AF/BB is common, but not THE most common in relationships. Most men and women are with someone that’s their equivalent, and among the best they can get. Contrary to popular belief, not every woman has a story of allowing some drug dealer to go raw in them. And women don’t date a guy when young consciously thinking “he isn’t the cutest but he has resources!”. Most people are dating someone they are excited about.

That said, BB/AF is still fundamental RP conscript and important to understand. Women will give sex willingly to some men and make others work for it. A lot can be based on situation (if you’re both abroad together there’s an AF element there), but most is personality /looks/what you’re offering.

Most common examples to be on the lookout for:

single mothers. Saw a top post on the tinder sub Yesterday that’s a perfect example. Hot girl has some kids, her RMV tanks, need a safe guy to help raise and pay for them
near or post wall women. Mainly party girls that weren’t able to convince a guy to settle down. They know the clock is ticking and they want kids. They have to adjust big time in their taste. Any Alpha Fucks type they realize aren’t someone you can build a family with, Alpha Bucks are out of reach, so they get the safe beta
any guy with a good career / wealth dating someone who looks better than them. I know many doctors like this. Their wives casually insult them at parties despite being their livelihood. They aren’t getting passionate sex from these women

SDW137 · 2020-02-27T16:14:24+00:00

Average joe, flowers and meals, teachers... where are the beta bux? People fuck people who they don’t marry and then they... get into a relationship with a guy making an average income? And that’s AFBB confirmed? Y’all needa stop looking into this so much with your TRP hive mind lens on, take a step back and realise how dumb what you’re saying is.

2ndMilleniaVisionary · 2020-02-27T15:33:58+00:00

Chick meets hot guy and they fuck, chick wants LTR, guy rejects chicks proposition, chick finds guy that meets her needs. This seems really understandable, is something flying over my head?

OXOzymandias · 2020-02-27T16:24:35+00:00

In a word, yes. I believe it doesn't exist, or at least nowhere near the extent that red pill and incels think it does. AFBB is something that happens sometimes, but those instances are not the majority.

sublimemongrel · 2020-02-27T16:43:32+00:00

The data used to support the iterations of AFBB by manospherians does not reliably support their conclusions, is not conclusive itself or is widely extrapolated from by those manospherians in order to reach their conclusions. If you raise data which seems to conflict with those generally wildly hyperbolic conclusions it is typically immediately dismissed.

When people provide anecdotes, like you in your OP, they are typically full of red pill assumed premises, just as yours are here.

brokegradstudent_93 · 2020-02-27T15:42:26+00:00

[removed]

FairAnalyst · 2020-02-27T15:41:22+00:00

Most women don't believe it. They don't see it a strict delineation between AF and BB, or alpha / beta as a spectrum not as a black and white thing. And their reactions to these types of men are instinctive reactions from the men's standing on this spectrum.

Women's reactions to men are basically the following, neutral, polite, interest, attraction, sexual attraction, and dtf. Where you are along this spectrum is based on how much emotional intensity you make women feel around you in that exact moment.

While men think women lock guys into either AF or BB in reality he has the potential to be anywhere between the two. That means men throughout their relationship, move up and down that scale depending on what he does. TRP tactics prove this. If he wants an AF relationship with a girl, he needs to maintain her between sexual attraction and ready to fuck emotional states.

LotBuilder · 2020-02-27T17:07:41+00:00

Relationships have different dynamics based on who both parties perceive to be the highest value. The perceived lower value party will try harder.

cxj · 2020-02-27T17:36:35+00:00

Most people’s objection to AFBB and other redpill concepts is the way they’re named, not the concepts themselves. Also people here got fixated on your imperfect example and used it to frame their response as a “you issue” where it doesn’t come off to me like you give a fuck at all lol

nemma88 · 2020-02-27T15:58:10+00:00

I think some areas just are not prevalent in AFs. I look at the people I went to school with. Popular girls married the popular boys and have 2.5 kids. Middling people married each other. Lower tier married each other and now have kids and relationship drama.

The fact every girl likes the popular boys and every guy liked the popular girls mattered little because they were not willing to decrease their social standing to even entertain the idea.

Not that I think it doesn't exist, just it's really most prevalent in that lower tier that has all the drama in it.

OXOzymandias · 2020-02-27T16:17:04+00:00

See the funny part is i dont even believe that Beta Buxx is that bad, as long as you are not a doormat.

Obviously you wont be as exciting and good looking as Chad, but being a safe option, and not the boring option, is a very good in some case.

Exemple: my cousin (26) is a nerd, dorky, fat dude, but he has good social skills and is very confident, he is into boxing but he look doesnt look athletic more like andy ruiz (i literally describe the men in my whole family) makes 120K/year, not that bad, he is living in a medium city (cincinnati), and he met his wife thanks to OLD.

She (23) is an extrovert, you guess were i am heading, she is for sure your classic party gals, she is easly a 7 or 8, and she has a student debt, and my cousin allow her to just have a part time to pay her stuff, they want to start a family apparently

I called him recently, and when the subject about his gf came, i ask him how did he manage to get a girl so good looking and sociable, he just said "i guess i am safe for her, she see herself in the long run with me", the guy knows nothing about TRP, i told him if he was happy with that, he told he was always the safe option, and girls went for him because of that, he had gf in the past because of that, and not ugly one necessarly.

I understood something after that: if you are a doormat, unconfident, to attached, pathetic, yes BB will be a challenge, but if you act like you have option, confidence, self respect, i think that it is a viable strategy.

Fuck at least it helped him get a good looking, very nice and caring girl, she is an improvement from what he used to land.

Maybe i am just defining Alpha Buxx, lol.

NockerJoe · 2020-02-27T15:34:47+00:00

The securing commitment part is the sticking point. A lot of people interpret it as every one of these girls is doing casual. Or that theres a sincere change and that somehow makes it ok.

A lot of women demand an answer as to why they shouldn't try on here and the reality is everyone else can see it'd wind up like one of the above. Because if you have to post as to why not you obviously didn't get that dude just yet.

DangZagnut · 2020-02-27T15:39:30+00:00

Alpha fuxx is usually when a girl is younger and naive, and like most girls, dates who asks her out, which is not that pussy beta buxx. Beta buxx doesn’t approach girls. He’s a chicken shit. Alpha fuxx wants to fuck, so he asks out the girls and focuses on trying to be a fuck boy. So that’s who they date. So they fuck all those guys, then gets tired of that, then goes with whatever beta nice guy finally grew some stones to ask a girl out.

So it’s who hits and quits first, then who sticks around later.

It is what it is.

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NixieNik99 · 2020-02-27T16:52:10+00:00

Not sure if this is true ? Every guy I dated before meeting my now husband all talked about marriage to me . When my mom runs into any of my ex's some laugh and say she was their almost mom in law . No they never actually proposed but yet they talked about it within weeks of us dating . My husband is Alpha , I'm very aware who is the head of the household . Really believe it's how you carry yourself in the first place on how and whom you attract to you . Men have always found me to be wifey material . Just my personal experience

wtknight · 2020-02-27T18:27:55+00:00

I think most of the general public see it as a woman wanting fun when she is young and maturing when she is older, just as men do. They don’t see it as “woman tried to get the bad boy to commit but failed and became an alpha widow who settled for a beta” like the manosphere does. I think that society in general tends to blame men in for a woman’s past “mistakes” more than the woman, when blame should probably be equally split 50/50.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2020-02-29T08:13:58+00:00

LMFAO @ thinking 18 yo. jocks in $50,000 student loan debt with 0 actual social status and low IQ drug addicts with rabies that fuck methwomen are "alpha males"

For fuck sake #totally alpha

2020-02-27T17:24:14+00:00

In my own shoes: banging and hooking up with girls who tried to get me to commit

Yeah, no one believes you, bro. Trying to act cool on Reddit makes you lamer than aids

jelli2015 · 2020-02-27T18:52:58+00:00

AF/BB is absolute bs in my experience. Not once in my life has it held true.

I refuse to have sex with guys I’m not exclusive with/nearing exclusivity. And every guy I’ve dated/slept with would all be considered beta AF. Why? Because nerds with a goofy sense of humor are the best.

I avoid guys who RP would consider alphas because they come across as assholes and I don’t find them attractive in the least.

Im still early 20s but have found my ideal guy. Dorky, sweet, and he doesn’t pay for my shit. Not once has a RP-style alpha convinced me they were anything more than a nuisance.

Emervila · 2020-02-27T15:36:08+00:00

It seems a lot of women have good intentions in trying to settle down. But in order to get males to commit they put out (the guy doesn’t want to) and AFBB lifecycle follows through.

It's not an innocent accident that happens to them but a deliberated and carefully planned strategy to maximize N-count with Chads to later settle with beta just in time before her reproductive capacity fails. Women this era don't want to spend more time with their future husbands from what is strictly necessary and also want to have with this guy the less possible and reproductive only sex.

_Anarchon_ · 2020-02-27T17:23:55+00:00

OP sounds beta af...but AFBB is real.

NaturalQueer · 2020-02-27T17:38:45+00:00

Yes I don’t find it true because that isn’t my experience or the experience of most of the women I know.

I’ve slept with “beta” guys and date “alpha” guys and the reverse. Before I got married I was friends with benefit with an amazing guy who most would probably say was beta but he was a good friend and we enjoyed being together. I also had a situation like that with a guy that looked kinda like Clark Kent. I’ve date alpha like dudes who committed and our relationship ran its course and I dated a guy for three years who had never had a girlfriend and was virgin.

I ended up marrying a guy that’s somewhat in the middle, he isn’t the stereotypical asshole alpha but he isn’t really a beta either. I think he’s super hot but he’s also sensitive and didn’t date much or have tons of relationship experience.

civil_scientist · 2020-02-27T17:10:14+00:00

If I'm understanding correctly (some of this terminology is new to me) your point rests on a "BB" wanting the "AF" non-commitment lifestyle but being unable to obtain it without promising commitment? While I'm sure this happens...you are aware that lots of men want a committed, monogamous relationship, right? That's their ideal setup and they seek it out exclusively? I say this as someone who is currently open to non-monogamous partnerships and have been approached with "you seem lovely, but I'm seeking monogamy, please get in touch if your situation changes."

I don't think your examples prove anything unless you know for a fact that, in every case, the so-called "BB" was only committing because it was the only way to get what they wanted, instead of being what they wanted all along?

ontherailstoday · 2020-02-27T18:13:06+00:00

If you want fun... be fun.

digidydang · 2020-02-27T21:38:48+00:00

Many women are simply not interested in men from the get go. That is the primary reason why mgtard, redpill, blackpill, bluepill, incel, forever alone and or PUA exist in the first place. The whole muh big alpha dick and AFBB assumes is the faulty premise that women are anywhere near as interested in men than men are interested in women.

Many women don't want men, they don't need men, they don't want to be bothered by men, they don't want men asking them out, they don't need men's provisioning, they can make their own living or get on the dole. We don't live in a society that values monogamy, relationships and or marriage anymore. Most men needed a society like that in order to get with a woman in the first place, since society no longer exist in that manner, then the whole "AFBB" thing is putting the cart before the horse.

PMShine1 · 2020-02-27T22:56:40+00:00

Nothing in the OP proves AFBB. Its all a superficial observation of other people lacking any nuance or understanding of their feelings and motives or details of what actually went on. Only the (angry male) observer gets to decide who is "alpha" and "beta," he alone gets to decide what motivated the woman and what she sees in him. Seriously, watch how quickly the goalposts move for what constitutes as "alpha" or "beta" given the situation. The only thing that happened is a woman was gasp with more than one guy, one of which may have been more sexual, and gasp in neither case was the angry male observer getting laid. That's it.

In fact Red Pill Nonsense (RPN) such as AFBB and "hypergamy" are all vague enough that no one really describes them the same way and so basically any scenario can be spun and rationalized to fit into the AFBB box, or the "hypergamy" box.

2020-02-27T23:29:40+00:00

Yes, people do believe that; that is a fact.

The "why?" of such belief system are deep and wide, and there's a variety. I am not an expert but here's a few:

unconscious entitlement: when we're used to something, it's hard to imagine that it's not "normal"
unconscious denial: we really truly want to believe that, no matter how unsuccessful we are, we're doing everything right

I am sure there are other, and both of the above also have the "conscious" variations as well.

The truth is often so hard and hurtful that we deny it to protect ourselves. We're human.

joesmithasdf · 2020-02-28T07:08:39+00:00

Tonight I’m drunk and I won’t read other replies before I reply. Hell yes.

The first time I’ve been with a model I was like 19. That happens again every few years, and they want it raw. They don’t give a shit if we do it all raw. I’m not even even tall but I’m obviously not average. But I’m obvious, they don’t need to guess.

So what can I say? The rp isn’t entirely wrong.

OfSpock · 2020-02-28T07:36:13+00:00

The only couple I know who I would describe as AF/BB is the sixteen year old who had an affair with a married 40yo in my social group. She and her boyfriend had sex, she didn't like it much but wanted to get married and have kids so she hit on every married guy we knew until one bit. He left his loving wife, mother of his three kids for her and they had four more. I know a couple of gold diggers too. Despite trp theory, they know their youth is valuable and went for older men when they were young,

Mostly, the women who liked alphas are single mothers now or still not settling for the guy who has waited 20 years for them.

Probably it happens somewhere but if anything the reverse is more common. I know of a few religious women who married the boy next door and cheat on him.

SteveSan82 · 2020-02-28T11:04:40+00:00

Stop watching Disney. Those perfect angel housewives dont exist.

grand_tiremaster · 2020-02-29T17:13:01+00:00

Yes, it exists. But not every woman is doing it.

2020-02-29T17:32:45+00:00

Another way to think about it is...the "alpha" got sex for free sure, but only for a limited period of time. The "beta" has to pay a price of commitment, but he then has her all to himself. Dead bedrooms and cheating are all violations of this contract... theoretically the "beta" still gets the better deal in the sense that he has sexual security.

MuleFool42 · 2020-02-27T15:49:11+00:00

It's true and to add to that I think that the AFBB cycle is artificially long because it's starts early and a lot of young men learn to emulate alpha traits in order to get with young women because they see what young women are choosing for sex.

As time goes by, women start to change what they choose, but they've already conditioned a percentage of men to be what they used to choose. Those men don't change back, necessarily. Most of what men do when they are young is based on what they see women reward. So women choosing Chads when they are young helps create generations of men becoming that and not necessarily changing as they get into their mid to late 30's. I mean, why change what has worked?

Physiologist21 · 2020-02-27T17:13:33+00:00

I dunno, I don't really consider myself "alpha" but I've slept with or turned down many a married woman, or found out after the fact that the girl was definitely not single. Pretty fucking crazy the lack of loyalty women have.

WIA20XX · 2020-02-27T16:12:54+00:00

All the girls I know with advanced degrees have told me that they have never slept with a fuckboy.

And if you can't believe what a woman says....

2020-02-27T16:21:26+00:00

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Hyperactiv3Sloth · 2020-02-27T17:31:20+00:00

The fact is that "bad boys" are "exciting". It's kinda like, as a guy, sticking your dick in crazy. It's wonderful, exciting and passionate but, most of the time, it fizzles, quickly. Most people, from both sexes, do occasionally enjoy excitement in their lives but "bad boys" and "crazy" are absolutely NOT for LTR.

NeedingAdvice86 · 2020-02-27T17:50:02+00:00

Not exactly...I think that by in large that many people just make tons of fucking horrible decisions in dating....get their world blown to shit then many start to re-evaluate what criteria to value in partners.

For women, this corresponds to their innate attraction to guys that are "different" than the 10000 guys every day who treat them with the pleasantness and kindness which is their daily lives....ie, often their "attraction is finding out why that one dude doesn't kiss their ass like the other 10000 guys they meet every day. Then they become obsessed with having to "win" over what in many cases is actually just a nearly psychopath, narcissist, selfish dickwad because it provides some sort of validation they are indeed "special" to get the jerk to change his behavior. What is the fun in getting the attention of another of the 10000 guys already treating them like they say they wanted or should want to be treated? Boring......

For guys, it becomes the act of KILLING the inner pleasant, nice easy going guy into become more of the uncaring, selfish, borderline narcissist guy which women crave.....which explains why actual real shits\dickwads\jerks do so well early in dating around high school\early college...these psychos never have to kill the upstanding, ethical, pleasant inner dude.

It really is a case where guys have to kill what women claim they want in a partner in order to become what women actually respond to and to ATTRACT women, while women have to get burnt in order to modify their selection criteria...most normals end up meeting somewhere in between and develop stable relationships...the rest end up on PPD and reddit screaming at each other.

But the new man will never go back to being the man that they were before and which women claim they want and often grow to find is what they wish to find....that had to be killed to become an option to women.

Initial_Machine · 2020-02-28T02:44:31+00:00

A woman who has had sex with other men before you has already cheated on you. She didn't save herself for you.

If you want a "long term committed relationship" ( a long term committed relationship, today, is a relationship where there's no term and no committment) with her fine.

But a man should never reward a woman with marriage who had sex with other men before she met him.

roundabout44 · 2020-02-27T16:06:15+00:00

Not only it exists, I regularly get it "black on white" by female friends and plates. Clear as day. Heard it so many times that I just chuckle now whenever I hear it.

YveisGrey · 2020-02-28T04:39:54+00:00

Lol okay buddy if you are the true alpha just ask her to leave that teacher now for a relationship with you. Surely if you are the better man and she only picked him because he offered a relationship the same offer from you will propel her to leave the beta dude and come running into your arms. You can always dump her after a few months since you “don’t want commitment” but it really the only way to prove your theory. Go on try it! 😂😂😂.

You RP guys kill me hey here’s another possibility she met a man better than you who wants to date her. Is it really AFBB if she didn’t even know the second guy when she was messing with you? Like think about it, she had no idea he existed so he wasn’t even on her radar. A lot of women would immediately stop banging their FWB if some famous millionaire athlete asked them to be their gf. This whole theory is an obvious ploy to make rejected and dumped men feel better about being replaced. “Yea she left me and is banging someone else now but he’s not alpha like me so I still win” 🙄🙄🙄

2020-02-27T16:18:00+00:00

[deleted]

digidydang · 2020-02-28T00:51:35+00:00

OK, evolution. Woman is the gene selector(goes both ways, but). She wants to eat and be safe, but more importantly she wants her genes to survive. She wants her offspring to be "fit" and be able to eat and be safe. So, she wants to mate with strong daring male, good hunter good protector... But... But, this dude sucks at nurturing a family. So cave woman also wants a guy who sticks around to help her raise her offspring. Well crap, so maybe mate with cave Chad, then get cave chump to help raise her and cave Chad's babys. Good plan, best plan to have her genes survive.

I have no stake in this game, but I like the theory. Explains why the ladies go for the bad boys.

weag5l · 2020-02-28T09:14:44+00:00

It's just supply and demand. There aren't enough alphas to go around. Sex is the currency that women use to buy a relationship. It is a means, not an end.

Buying a relationship from an alpha is like trying to bribe a billionaire. It simply costs more.

Do people REALLY believe AFBB does not exist?

Comments

Facts

Title	Do people REALLY believe AFBB does not exist?
Author	McHonkBurger69
Upvotes	60
Comments	335
Date	February 27, 2020 3:17 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/fadjmr/do_people_really_believe_afbb_does_not_exist/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-people-really-believe-afbb-does-not-exist.340813 https://theredarchive.com/post/340813