Pathological Entitlement in some Men

Fan_Service_3703 · 2024-05-07T09:48:47+00:00

Genuinely of all the unhappily single men (and women too to be fair) I've met, "entitlement" is negligible if not non-existent. Most are very unhappy, many are bitter, questioning why despite doing all the things society says you should do to make yourself attractive to others, you're still not getting anywhere while other people are. That's not entitlement, not a belief that they deserve anything. If anything, the ones I've met firmly believe themselves to be inferior and unworthy and that it is right that nobody is interested (while still being bitter about it).

RequisiteTaco · 2024-05-07T10:15:47+00:00

I have very rarely encountered men, even in extremist spaces, where men consider “women” the oppressors.

It’s almost always, even in PUA/dating guru spaces some combination of hypergamy, chad thunderc*** and beta bucks that are considered to be contributing to the problem - which is why a lot of these PUA types default to traditionalist arguments half the time.

That’s not really the point of this post, but it’s a point I felt like addressing; as for the rest of it - yes, plenty of black pill/red pill men are disenfranchised and probably fucked up people. As are many women I’ve known, but the stakes and consequences are greater for men which gives us a societal conundrum; and then caught dead in the middle are the millions of normal young-ish men who are neither committing crimes, nor abusing women, and just end up caught in a dead zone of not being inclined to succeed on dating apps and our social climate.

I had a friend who was a great guy, in the Air Force, in shape, etc and his Tinder was atrocious. I fixed it in like 5 minutes of browsing his photos and he ended up in an LTR pretty quickly after that. If most of my friends, who are now married or have children end up splitting from their partner, I have a feeling they would be fucked without walking into a situationship.

A lot of the time it isn’t the man, it isn’t because he’s a stinky, unkempt loser - he just doesn’t have the photos, online profile, or IRL social means to present himself to women - including IRL social circles to simply meet women to have a dating pool.

It’s a different group than the men who, categorically by your post, might actually be mentally ill or socially maladaptive at work, with friends, unable to be in a stable relationship, etc.

It’s a minority that may as well be considered a fringe group in my opinion, we’re privileged to see posts by those people because we’re on Reddit.

ComfortableJeans · 2024-05-07T10:01:38+00:00

I've never seen anyone call it oppression. I've mostly just seen people ruminating about how it's unfair. Which to be fair, it is.

The avarage women DOES have a far easier time getting a date than avarage man.

Maybe there's some SUPER fringe, mentally ill/heavily neurodivergent people that would wrongly consider it to be some form of opression. But I can't recall seeing anyone actually comparing difficulties in dating with bloody Jim Crow. I would say though, that you're probably more likely to encounter someone like that on here. But they'll still be a LARGE minority.

As far as entitlement, I think people often confuse desperation for entitlement.

A lot of these people truly have no one in their lives, and social isolation is a very effective way of destroying a person. It's perhapse the most common factor in suicides. And for a lot of men, maybe even most men, a romantic partner is the only close relationship they'll have in their entire lives. Thanks to the social structures we have around me

There are a lot of men who've never had a close relationship in their entire lives. Imagine being born, and being alone all your life. Socialliation and feeling as though we're loved is something humans NEED just as much as water and nutrients. Our body fails without it. From increased odds of high blood pressure, heart disease, obesity, a weakened immune system, anxiety, depression, cognitive decline, Alzheimer's disease, and so on.

On top of that, if you want to ruin a persons mind to the point they kill themselves, just isolate them from everyone.

Anon top of THAT, breaking isolation isn's as simple as going outside and talking to someone. It's a very slipperly slope that's hard to break. As we're seeing now that covid isolation came to and end and so many people are complaing about just how hard to is to be social again.

Belongingness and love are NEEDS for a human. Without it, we don't do well and die early. And with the way men are handled, a lot of them don't get that from any other source than a romantic partner.

So I get it, when they have literal needs that aren't able to be met and it's killing them.

It's always just struck me more as desperation than entitlement, is what I'm saying.

That being said, it's not as though women have an obligation to start dating lonely men that they're not into just to save them.

I'm just saying that these men aren't just fat little boys crossing their arms and pouting because no one has touched their penis. They're longing for a conection that they can't get anywhere else and is literally killing them.

But again, women can't really do much about that. They're not into those men. What are they going to do? Pity date someone? Fall in love out of pity? I doubt that's even possible.

There are men in horrible pain that can't seem to right it. And women can't really do anything to stop that pain without making things worse for themselves. Even just reading this right now, I'd wager a lot of me feel at least somewhat heard and understood. But far from saved.

Like someone pointing out that you're drowning, but not saving you. It's better than drowning while no one notices.

It's just a horrible situatuion all around for some people. You really DO need it, you can't get it, and it's killing you.

Scarce12 · 2024-05-07T11:33:53+00:00

Gotcha.

So your labelling lonely men as pathologically entitled and that doesn't seem oppressive to you because that's how you treat men.

Electric_Death_1349 · 2024-05-07T10:21:19+00:00

This is giant straw man - no man outside of the incel subs would ever claim to be the victim of “oppression” because they struggle with dating; but hyperbolic accusations like this, along with claims of “entitlement” are used to shut down any expression of frustration at the modern dating landscape, which does disproportionately favour women.

an-invisible-hand · 2024-05-07T12:18:12+00:00

Wild post. I only pop in here to observe the chaos sometimes but this is too wild not to comment. There's a lot to unpack here, literally starting from the title. "some men" who? How many? 10? 50? 20,000? It's a meaningless quantifier you put in for the sole purpose of having an escape route for the wild shit you actually want to just ascribe to men in general. Not slick.

With that in mind I reject the entire premise. Nobody but like the 1, maybe 2 posts tops you may have saw is saying delusional shit like they're oppressed by women because no coochie.

What you do probably see lot of are multiple separate issues being complained about, that you're fusing together in the most uncharitable way possible. Those being:

The dating scene in current year is a shit show with a strong tendency to pressure dudes, especially online
The fundamental need for intimacy is not being met for a ton of those dudes
In true tragedy of the commons fashion, every actor with power (and yes, some groups hold more power in dating. Intersectionality affects the fucking culture too, sis.) is engaged in a self sabotaging race to the bottom
Anonymous women online really make a sport of ridiculing men who vent, and giving truly dogshit advice to men seeking answers about dating, especially concerning those "preferences and standards"

I mean honestly, this bit specifically is next some level shit.

Now I believe this reaches into pathological entitlement. A sense of entitlement is a personality trait that is based on a person’s belief that they deserve privileges or recognition for things that they did not earn. People experiencing this sense tend to believe that the world owes them something in exchange for nothing.

You wanna know why dudes here treat women like you with hostility and distrust? It's because you write shit like this about the frustrated dudes who want a mate, in between dismissing the reality of dating and calling them narcissists for being mad that finding a partner has become the war in Ba Sing Se.

There's a special irony in you smugly huffing your own farts on the sanctity of women's preferences and standards, and rejection of "unearned privileges" and "something in exchange for nothing" for men. Thats a straight laugh when we all know 99% of women will toss her standards, morals, rules, yadda yadda right out the fucking window for damn near any moron as long as he's big hot. And no, your point will not be saved by saying "well he earned it by being born hot and asking if we could fuck as soon as we matched!"

Im sure you want a nice little dunk rather than solutions, but if you actually want men online to not think you're full of shit, don't vaguepost wild nonsense like this. Don't pretend the above example, or the many other idiotic realities of modern dating are somehow fair (or earned, fucking lmao). And especially don't pretend like your gender is somehow morally superior and we aren't all fucking apes making selfish decisions. Women would be just as salty if the shoe were on the other foot. We're all just people, and you people with the inside parts are just as mean, petty, and dumb as the half with the outside parts.

Ornery_Department277 · 2024-05-07T11:03:50+00:00

You spent a lot of time fighting your own strawman.

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-05-07T13:01:58+00:00

It would be like me saying I got bad grades in highschool and failed to get into university so that's oppression.

That's basically how affirmative action works.

RedditAlt999 · 2024-05-07T16:20:09+00:00

I'll take your analogy of not getting accepted to college and run with it. Let's say you're the president of a country, and your country needs 5,000 doctors to effectively treat all of it's citizens and you have 500 currently employed. Currently, there's 200 medical schools in your country and they will only accept the 99th percentile of MCAT (or equivalent exam) test takers, so each year there's maybe 200-300 qualified students. Technically, being a doctor/surgeon isn't all that difficult. I've read studies where roughly 80% of people could do most routine surgeries, and medicine is mostly memorization and you could look up how to treat most issues. You know a 1% acceptance rate isn't necessary and it should be higher.

You hear the medical school deans and board members screaming "Don't settle for less!(when it comes to students)", "if he (they) wanted to (score higher on the MCAT) he would!", and "they (these wannabe doctors) are so entitled like we should just accept them!" They sound so ridiculous, don't they know we need more doctors? Why can't they just accept the top 15-20% instead of ALL demanding the top 1%?

Sure this sounds clunky, but I'm working with the analogy you gave me.

WanabeInflatable · 2024-05-07T11:24:43+00:00

Nobody is entitled to relationships. Here you are right,

However, double standards in relationships are still a thing, I'd not call it oppression, but for sure discrimination.

ArtifactFan65 · 2024-05-07T10:44:08+00:00

It's oppression by the universe, and unjust in the sense that nobody deserves to suffer just because they are sexually unattractive. I agree that some people are venting their anger at the wrong target, they should be angry with God not with women.

AidsVictim · 2024-05-07T09:52:25+00:00

Men framing their dating struggles as "oppression" is relatively rare. Mens complaints are typically about hypocrisy/hypergamy by women and generally how much harder it is to date as a man (due to asymmetric libidos or whatever not a literal oppressive force).

You can think this is narcissistic or unrealistic but (most) men do not really view it as "oppression" in the literal sense.

Conversely I think you're interpreting it this way because most women have been enculturated to think of any "unfairness" as a result of oppression.

triple_skyfall · 2024-05-07T10:10:26+00:00

I guess I'm entitled for wanting to have someone who cares about me in my life.

I hope you find a nice bear to care for you.

UseOk8123 · 2024-05-07T15:50:39+00:00

Stopped at the 2nd sentence of OP post because it's a strawman argument.

Comfortable-Dare-307 · 2024-05-08T03:04:29+00:00

I've never been more happy living alone now that I'm away from all the abusive women I've had in my life. I don't feel entitled to anything from women, and I would be greatful if they'd leave me alone. Everytime I go out to a bar there's a woman that tries to talk to me. Do I put on some kind of vibe that tells women I'm okay to talk to? I don't mind talking to people. I've had some great conversations with strangers at the bars I frequent. But I'm always nervous when they happen to be women. I hate to be the #not all men crowd but its true. I just want to be left alone.

NotReallyTired_ · 2024-05-07T15:51:54+00:00

There’s a lot to unpack here.

Yes, there is a form of oppression placed onto men, but it’s not in the traditional sense of “a minority of being oppressed by the majority or authority.” But an abstract yet subtle cultural tug of war of what a man’s place is where the supposition is that men are useless dangerous predators who’s entire journey and value comes from earning his innocence and humanity by performing acts of unreciprocated selflessness. The oppression is the unjust treatment and perception of the male identity, and how any kind of push back or criticism is an advocacy to violence and abuse. This is not to mention how the genders are treated in the school and university settings. Where men are discouraged to ask questions or look confused for example, while the women are encouraged to ask questions and for help.

Entitlement is a complicated issue, mostly due to the majority of people not having a sense of it. Men don’t move with a sense of entitlement, they move with a sense of social obligation and duty that’s placed upon them and they expect the same back. It’s not about “waaaah I’m entitled to coochie because I’m a good boy 🥺.” It’s about what it means to participate to society. We put in work and contributions to get something back, there’s no other around it. You could twist it into “seeking entitlement.” But absolutely no human being would EVER accept the idea of “do this, do that, compromise this, sacrifice that and by the way if you end up with nothing that’s on you.” It’s like busting your ass in college, taking on debt under the impression that the pathway to success is to get a 4-year, only to do those things and end up in a shit wage job, and you’re not allowed to point out the bullshit because technically you’re not entitled to a decent job. Sure, you’re not entitled to anything, BUT there’s to be a tangible incentive outside of pure basic survival.

We literally lost the plot for men, we’re extremely simple creatures and yet no one understands us. Cause it seems like yours and a couple of women in these discourses, idea of men’s thoughts and paradigm begins and ends with “sex and the propensity for violence.” I look at the bear vs man debate and the whole “why aren’t men protecting women” debate, just wondering how do we even begin to articulate and explain how most men operate and why they feel some type of way about these conversations.

yodol-90 · 2024-05-07T10:55:35+00:00

man badmouthing women? he must be entitled

SlowEffective8146 · 2024-05-07T11:56:18+00:00

A lot of men view female sexuality as a form of eugenics (and I don't think they're entirely wrong).

And typically when people are performing eugenics, they aren't gaslighting their victims. Imagine if Hitler was just killing people and then going "it's not because of your ethnicity, not at all" the entire time. I think this is a pretty good analogy for women.

Maffioze · 2024-05-07T11:06:23+00:00

I don't think pathological entitlement as a concept is going to be helpfull to anyone. In essence it's little more than what you subjectively feel should be considered a pathology. I would advice against pathologizing people this easily as a not unsignificant amount of human suffering has been caused by doing this in the past, just remember how women used to be called hysterical.

Ultimately the word entitlement is mostly thrown at men to shut them up whenever they complain about feeling bad about themselves. It' isn't used in the rational way it should be used most of the time, rather it's just another way to tell men to suck it up and to pull themselves up by the boothtraps, and that no one cares about their suffering.

You also seem to ignore that personal preferences of groups of people can indeed result in them exercising power over other groups of people. Namely if you don't cater to their collective preferences you won't be able to fulfill one of the most basic functions of pretty much all organisms on earth. This works in both directions but on average women have more power than men in dating. This means that women have more power to enforce gender roles in men that are convenient for them than vice versa. This is not done consciously or maliciously, but to ignore this power aspect is to pretend that romantic love and reproduction aren't among the core drivers of human beings and their behaviour.

statsfodder · 2024-05-07T11:16:32+00:00

Women have taught men the meaning of "oppression" ... just sayin'

MongoBobalossus · 2024-05-07T09:45:02+00:00

Undiagnosed mental issues could indeed be a reason why some of these dudes struggle with dating.

Common-Ferret-1435 · 2024-05-07T10:01:18+00:00

no men call dating “oppression”. That’s made up feminist lies you’re repeating as propaganda over and over.

It is, however, hypocritical. Demanding 6’4” millionaire Chad while screaming oppression at having to not spread for some other Chad while married and daring to be asked to lose 10 lbs. when you get fat isn’t oppression.

Or stop whining about unpaid domestic labor (that you don’t do) but love to pretend you do like it’s 1810 and you’re oppressed by not working in a coal mine for a fraction of a penny.

The “men are entitled” argument is 100% projection of women who are entitled since gold digging is a thing no matter how much women lie and claim it isn’t.

Western white Women are the most entitled creature to ever stride the face of the planet. Forget Greeks and Roman’s or the Mongolian khans. They ain’t got shit on you. Yet you demand even more than the richest Caesar salad to run an empire.

No it’s not a mental disorder that you must spread your legs for high demand Chad, then he does you dirty after you try to impress him making his food. And demanding restaurants and money all day.

That’s a skills issue and the price you pay to out compete Stacy for his attention too. As in all things, it’s projection. It’s literally one of women’s fifteen weaknesses.

Skills issue, 100% your fault. At best you can blame parenting, but that’s your fault too playa. Strong and independent single mothers are making chad entitled. Yet you see that as empowering. Clean up your own mess. Spreading for Chad does have downsides.

Again, projecting your and Chad’s crimes on the average college nerd you spit on if he’s within visual range is a you issue. He’s not to blame.

BeBetter as Oprah says.

ppvremsleep · 2024-05-07T15:54:29+00:00

Girls hate creeps and virginy acting guys. If any guy like that was wiped off the face of the earth and it wasn’t a family member, she’d be happy about it in a way. Girls find some guys so annoying, if she knows about concept of incels, she has outright contempt for them.

Nellylocheadbean · 2024-05-07T10:03:33+00:00

Their entitlement comes from the fact that women didn’t have a choice for most of history to be single and live relative decent.

Men didn’t have to do much besides be a decent man with a job to get a relationship. Now that women can do their own thing, it’s hard for men to adjust to the fact that they’re not as wanted as they were led to believe.

Men get upset when women feel entitled to their money or resources not realizing this is a chicken before the egg situation. A lot of Men feel entitled & have always felt entitled to women. Some don’t even care if the woman likes them, they just want the presence of a woman in their space.

betanoire · 2024-05-07T10:57:30+00:00

Your country's finished, feminism is finished, you're finished. Time's up. Enjoy your war.

UnhappyInevitable680 · 2024-05-07T10:31:27+00:00

Another projection from women? Nooo, never

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Purple_Kangaroo8549 · 2024-05-07T16:53:24+00:00

Furthermore it implies that men have an innate entitlement to dating, sex and relationships with women (no matter how the women feel about it).

Yes, I care more about civilization and ancestry than any particular chicks emotional moors which have shown to be fully manipulatable.

All of civilization is built with an underlying threat of force, if someone isn't getting what they deem necessary out of it then that force is carried out and we kill each other until someone wins.

superlurkage · 2024-05-07T10:14:46+00:00

If you “need” sex and intimacy, being denied it is oppression, yes

Funny how the “emotional” gender never makes this argument

TRTGymBro1 · 2024-05-07T10:59:34+00:00

It goes deeper than this. The entitlement and bitterness comes from considering love a basic human NEED. While this may sound logical and factual, the reality is that this idea is mostly the result of social conditioning and brainwashing.

We get constant messages like: "All you need is love, love is all you need", "I will die without you", "love is the most powerfully force in the universe", "people who need people are the luckiest people" and so on and so forth. We are constantly bombarded by these messages in song, TV, movies, books and stories our parents tell us about marriage, kids and white picket fences.

When you believe something is a basic human need, the lack of it will make you miserable and depressed. And because you only see one way of satisfying that need (in the form of other people living you), when those people don't love you, you naturally start believing they actually depriving you of what you need.

It's a viscous cycle. The more unhappy you are because you believe love is a requirement for happiness, the less likely you are to find a loving partner. Why? People are forced to reject needy people. Perhaps it comes from our tribal days, where we barely survived with very limited resources. So when someone came along and they gave off a vibe of needing something from us, we considered them a burden or even a threat to our survival. Needy people are almost always rejected.

As I've said many times on here, the only real solution is to learn that happiness and fulfillment are not tied to being loved at all. Once you stop chasing people like trophies or things that you can exploit for love and sex, magical things happen. The opposite sex starts taking interest in you.

Don't bother replying to my comment. I've heard all the silly objections you are already foaming at the mouth to throw at me. No, it's not about cutting off your dick and living alone for the rest of your days. No, it's not about becoming gay or asexual and not being interested in women. No, you won't die without love. I've never met a person who believes love is a basic human need who has been able to get love. They always end up alone or in the most miserable relationships with people.

On the other hand, folks who are emotionally independent and have the capacity to be happy by themselves, they never lack takers.

meisterkraus · 2024-05-07T10:53:29+00:00

Are there men like that sure because there are people like that. You seem to be projecting your perception of what is oppression on to men. Conflating having negative emotions about your situation with entitlement. People like you are why men don't share their emotions.

Stop_Maximum · 2024-05-07T13:05:08+00:00

It’s not oppression, as you cannot force anyone outside of yourself to give you something, even something basic as love. I think the only people that are supposed to give you love and care are your parents, and when they don’t, that’s called neglect.

But I can also understand from their point of view it might feel like an unjust treatment. But they are the only ones that can free themselves

nightsofthesunkissed · 2024-05-07T10:45:20+00:00

Have you seen how some guys respond when female video game characters aren’t sexy? It’s some insanity right there. They have formed protests, signed petitions and become activists over this..

Gitsumrestmf · 2024-05-07T09:53:44+00:00

I agree that it's an entitled, selfish way of thinking, that needs to change. However...

Calling these guys narcissists is uncalled for, I think. While I don't want to take all the responsibility from them (they are responsible), I can't help but think these guys are a product of our SICK society.

1) Everything today is over-sexualized. You can't escape that imagery, even if you stop consuming any kind of popular media.

2) Sexual "liberation" (it's really enslavement), as well as widely-available contraception, ruined relationships. Where previously relationships were about commitment, about finding a wife/husband, now they are all about just uncaring fornication. Using another person as a sex toy, and caring for them just as little.

3) Social pressure. Young men are shamed for being virgins. Which only twists the mind of already-hormonal late-teens and early 20s guys even more.

4) Lack of religious values. Faith is the antidote to all of the above.

All of these things drive some young men into desperation. Particularly bad if they have no older male role-model in their lives. Easy prey for grifters like Andrew Tate, Freshnfit, etc.

SoldierExcelsior · 2024-05-07T10:41:30+00:00

Well they are failing the test because the teacher speaks a foreign language the men don't understand.

boom-wham-slam · 2024-05-07T13:25:55+00:00

I agree. Women do this too. They do not have a right to commitment. Just because I have sex with a girl doesn't mean I'm not also sleeping with 4 other ones. Then they think I'm going to marry them, what a joke. Entitled behavior... but you sum it up best:

It is personal preferences and a standard based system, not oppression. Having preferences that people don't fit, is not "unjust treatment" or "malicious treatment of" or "exersizing power" over women.

Furthermore it implies that women have an innate entitlement to dating, sex and relationships with men (no matter how the men feel about it). That simply because the women have the need and desire for it, that it must therefore be met, otherwise it is unjust.

But men don't owe women protection or chivalry or financial stability or relationships at all. And it's laughable at these women trying to pressure marriage or sqwauk about their biological clock and how we "wasted their time" if we just want to have a dead end relationship for a long time or whatever. We don't owe you a baby or a ring. Get over it.

Sheesh. Dating is full of entitled people.

DeathcoreOnly · 2024-05-07T17:38:09+00:00

What I find funny about these posts is that none of this is true, you just hate men. The way you dismiss their experiences and talk about men like they’re some sort of detestable filth shows a lot more about you than the men you hate so much. Men aren’t “pathologically entitled” and the arrogance you have thinking you can label an entire group of people like that is so telling. If anyone is an entitled narcissist, it’s you

N-Zoth · 2024-05-07T09:50:43+00:00

I mean yea but our culture is structured in a way that encourages that sense of entitlement.

How many movies are there coming out each year where the dude gets the girl because he does x, y and z and that's his "reward" at the end of the story? How many movies are there that instead develop the idea that relationships are supposed to be mutual?

This is not going to get fixed any time soon.

Title	Pathological Entitlement in some Men
Author	RubyDiscus
Upvotes	0
Comments	364
Date	May 7, 2024 9:38 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1cm7vw5/pathological_entitlement_in_some_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/pathological-entitlement-in-some-men.1517711 https://theredarchive.com/post/1517711

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