Question about divorce rates

SolveFinance · 2021-01-12T03:00:59+00:00

The common statistic “half of all marriages end in divorce” is technically correct but it’s misleading. It double counts people who’ve already been divorced once and are doing it 2,3, 4+ times.

If you adjust for that, first time marriages that end in divorce is a lower number at about 33%. It’s not that bad as people think it is.

GridReXX · 2021-01-12T02:22:01+00:00

I don’t have the stats on hand but I thought divorce rates have actually come down. And that marriage rates are low too.

The conclusion seems to be less people are getting married but the people who do get married are more compatible.

goatismycopilot · 2021-01-12T02:29:43+00:00

Unless your are committed to wanting kids and raising them in a stable environment marriage is a waste of time for men and women.

SherbertBacon · 2021-01-12T02:52:24+00:00

It's multiple reasons. The easiest way to think about it is "cost vs. benefit." If the sum of costs of staying outweigh the costs of leaving (including social pressure, figuring out singleness again, etc.) then she'll stay.

A shift in the law helped moved the barometer for costs of leaving. Some argue "no fault divorce" created a larger pool of opportunist women, but the studies bear out that this is rarely the case. The primary predictor of who initiates the divorce (and I mean the legal process not ending the relationship) is who believes they'll get/wants custody of the kids. A secondary reason is financial/emotional costs of staying vs. leaving. All up, it appears no-fault divorces mostly work to benefit women who were previously stuck in abuse or financial strain.

Many people say that divorce rates are up because people aren’t taking commitment as seriously as previous generations,

This is also a side-note: but the largest contributor to the divorce rates are people who marry before the age of 25 and aren't college-educated. Because there's a lower cost in leaving from a "naive, bad choice" people can more readily leave. Older adults with education and stable finances who know what they want divorce at lower rates.

lestratege · 2021-01-12T10:47:03+00:00

The problem is that most people misunderstand the statistics. If you say a divorce rate is 50%, people are under the impression that if you get married you have 50% chance of getting a divorce. That's not it.

It only means that in year X, there was n marriages and n/2 divorces.

People who get married and divorced on the same year are not of the same generation.

Baby boomers were way more numerous than gen X so when gen X was getting married, baby-boomers were divorcing in greater number than gen X could get married. So this would make it look like the divorce rate goes up while it's just an issue about the different size of generations.

Same thing if one generation doesn't marry. You can see that with divorce rate in Europe that looks like 50%. But it's mainly because young people don't marry anymore so the ratio of the number of marriages when it's become rare on the number of divorces when marriages used to be common will go up.

Basically we need to establish what we're talking about here.

Gilmoregirlin · 2021-01-12T02:39:39+00:00

Well if you are comparing it to the time of the Korean War in the US back then you could not get a no fault divorce. So even if both parties wanted to get divorced if there was no fault proven they could not, there was not “irreconcilable differences.” So sometimes couples would literally work together to set up opportunity and disposition to make it look like one was cheating so they could get out of the marriage. The first no fault divorce law was adopted in 1970 and by the 1980s most states had adopted it. Even now though with no faults there is a long waiting period, sometimes up to two years, but those are also being lifted, so divorce is getting easier. So I do think that women’s ability to leave is part of it, but also no faults. People don’t need marriage like they used to. It’s more of a desire and less of a necessity.

daproest1 · 2021-01-12T07:15:50+00:00

I agree. The problem with this is that it is always the female, not the male, who becomes unsatisfied in long term relationships. Interest tends to drop off with both genders over time. But with women it TANKS. So on one hand it’s good that they’re able to leave bad relationships. But on the other hand it’s bad because they think every relationship is a bad relationship even if it’s just a normal relationship with ups and downs like any other one.

Fuzzy_Novel9085 · 2021-01-12T02:07:45+00:00

You're wording this like it's a bad thing, I'd rather be single than in a shitty marriage or relationship. Divorce rates are going up? Good. If my wife doesn't want to be with me then I don't want to be with her.

Bandit174 · 2021-01-12T02:28:27+00:00

I think it's probably both. Divorce is more accessible/less taboo AND people don't take commitment as seriously.

Also we probably don't know what divorce rates are for millennials and gen z yet. To me divorce rate should be calculated by looking at a bunch of married couples in a given period and tracking them at the 10, 15, 20 year point and checking what percentage of them are still together at each milestone. We can only do that retroactively so to know the true divorce rate of current generations we must wait. A lot of the time when people reference a divorce stat it seems to be the number of divorces in a time period divided by number of marriages or something along those lines. That is easier to calculate but not as useful imo.

feastorfashion · 2021-01-12T03:54:50+00:00

Divorce rates are down. They are similar to the mid 1960’s at the moment.

Babykinnsxoxo · 2021-01-12T04:41:15+00:00

In Asia divorce is still very stigmatized. In India divorce rates are very low given the fact that we live in a collectivistic culture but here both husband and wife have societal pressure so divorce is a stigma for both of the cases. In catholic driven countries (no offense to the religion) however divorce is stigmatized for religious reasons and in Vatican it's banned altogether.

Dora_Bowl · 2021-01-12T06:56:55+00:00

Many people say that divorce rates are up because people aren’t taking commitment as seriously as previous generations

The divorce rate is dropping.

tiganibabangnida · 2021-01-12T05:31:17+00:00

That's an universal constant around the world. Whenever societal attitudes/legal frameworks/economic circumstances become more conductive for female independence, women start noping out of (unequal and abusive) marriages at an exponentially growing rate. Nothing even to argue here

Unteryn · 2021-01-12T09:01:11+00:00

Why get married at all? I'm too lazy to wash my own socks let alone a husband's.

ccz-85741 · 2021-01-12T07:27:36+00:00

That is indeed part of it. It's also the no-fault divorce laws that enable people to just end a marriage over boredom or meeting someone else.

As a consequence to divorce rates being up marriage rates have tanked. I don't know any guys that plan on getting married. Ever.

New-Idea-7061 · 2021-01-12T11:30:09+00:00

Yeah I mostly agree, I come from a traditional South Asian origin family, even right now most women in South Asia find it really difficult to leave abusive marriages. Although I have to say more and more women are now finding the courage to speak out against domestic, emotional and financial abuse.

However the other reason is that a lot of men in the West have checked out of marriage completely, they don't really see the need for marriages anymore. Like I said its great women can now leave abusive marriage but a lot of innocent men get screwed by abusive/toxic wives who then screw them over in the family courts.

mantapacktribe · 2021-01-12T12:51:22+00:00

just because the woman initiates the divorce process doesn't necessarily mean that it's about the woman leaving the man. it's quite common for one reason or another for women to do the divorce filing even if it's the man who wants to leave.

Smoogs2 · 2021-01-12T03:14:02+00:00

Neither sex was really “allowed” to leave. “Shotgun weddings” came from the literal act of threatening the man to marry the woman he knocked up.

iLiveInAHologram94 · 2021-01-12T04:19:27+00:00

I think it’s both personally

lycheenme · 2021-01-12T05:52:52+00:00

in america, divorce rates are decreasing. have been since the 50s.

wgtow1 · 2021-01-12T11:19:03+00:00

Divorce is not necessarily bad. High divorce rate is a good indicator. It is better couples divorce than stick with something not working.

121demon · 2021-01-12T05:18:34+00:00

No point to get married as a guy, unless you want a typical family lifestyle with a wife and a few kids. If you don’t want kids then getting married is not it

Lie-Equal · 2021-01-12T02:08:44+00:00

It's not a complete picture. regardless of why the change has happened, the divorce rate going from 4% in 1960 to many multiples now indicates (also indicates, if you like) that marriage has gone from a lifetime commitment to a glorified quickie...but with the same bill at the end. Why bother? New pussy is way more fun, and at least from a guy's perspective, sacrificing that for nothing is...well, it's fuckin dumb.

SteveSan82 · 2021-01-12T04:27:56+00:00

Most divorces are because women felt "unfulfilled". Generally women are the abusers and cheaters. Check the statistics.

Ron_Because_Why_Not · 2021-01-12T04:39:29+00:00

Ugh. The amount of sheer ignorance and sexism in this comment is killing me.

As someone who has studied and worked in family laws and global comparative family law (meaning I’ve studied the societal, culture and jurisprudential development and evolution of marriage, divorce and property ownership), let me weigh in.

Marriages, which in most religions and cultures have root in patriarchal notions, have been a tool to subvert women. Marriage involved a life long relationship between a man (who holds a dominant group position in the society) and a woman (who is a submissive). These are terms and notions that are used for contract between two people and marriage is regarded as a special type of contact, special because it’s for lifetime (except some Islamic marriages that are for a fixed time period).

Now, you ask why is man at a dominating position. We need to go back in history. Find out which gender got voting rights before the other, which gender was not allowed birth control either absolutely or were only allowed birth control in presence of their partner. Which gender could only hold limited jobs. Which gender did not get equal pay for equal work. Which gender could not easily remarry. Which gender is more likely to be abused in a marriage. Which gender could not own or inherit property. Which gender was not allowed university or technical education for the longest time (google even did Cambridge university allow women students).

These were the factors were considered by common law judges and civil law makers to device laws and practices that would allow women to get out of marriage and survive it.

While some of the factors listed above might not be true any longer. It’s important to consider that a lot of these factors existed until recently (eg: put yourself in the position of your gradmom). What is again important is that a lot of these factors still exist in different regions of the world (yes, even the developed and the so called first world).

What we are witnessing now in very small urban pockets is equal partnership marriages. A very very privileged form of marriage. A marriage where both the spouses work and share responsibilities (of the household, kids, dogs etc). Where there is mutual respect and no threat of violence. This is #rare.

Women at most places before could not get divorced. They might not even have considered it because of societal conditioning. When you see a spike in divorce now - be happy. It shows people have agency. It shows people can make a choice without it destroying their lives.

SeemedGood · 2021-01-12T02:13:35+00:00

She couldn’t leave because in her time, women weren’t able to work and were all raised to be housewives making them completely dependent on their husbands financially.

This has never been the case for the majority of the world. Most people are too poor for women not to work and always have been.

moldovan0731 · 2021-01-12T08:36:49+00:00

You have a typical woman/feminist opinion on it based on a few instances. The majority them are becuse people no longer take commitment seriously though.

GunnzzNRoses · 2021-01-12T10:37:08+00:00

I'd say it is both the reason you provided, and the fact that waiting until marriage to have sex is way less common.

Now a woman has a threshold for sexual pleasure. It's not that high at all, by the way, you just have to eat pussy good and have a good motion. But there seems to be a correlation between "nice guys" who get a girl to marry them and a lack of sexual ability. And sexual dissatisfaction is a major contributor to divorce, so if a girl decided to wait with her future hubby and he's a one pump chump, she might leave.

JameisBong · 2021-01-12T11:10:10+00:00

I also think some women use domestic violence accusations as leverage to get a quicky divorce, sole custody and alimony payments.

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TheOffice_Account · 2021-01-12T04:25:11+00:00

Many people say that divorce rates are up because

people aren’t taking commitment as seriously as previous generations,

women weren’t able to leave bad marriages back in the day, and

divorce was more frowned upon back then.

How about a serving of 'all of the above'? Lol, we have all the freedom we can possibly endure.

What a great time to be in the business of 'online dating apps', or of selling dogs and cats.

You_Dont_Party · 2021-01-12T08:46:52+00:00

[deleted]

EGOtyst · 2021-01-12T14:21:33+00:00

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/relationships/a26551655/us-divorce-rate/

SonicBackScratcher · 2021-01-12T14:23:16+00:00

But what I think is that it’s because women weren’t able to leave bad marriages back in the day and divorce was more frowned upon back then

70's had the highest divorce rates.

flyinghorse1 · 2021-01-12T14:49:28+00:00

Its a bit of both. People dont really commit to each others these days (if you need to search the definition of commitment) and also there isnt as much stigma to divorce (although there still is as they are judged a lot)

Extremely__Moderate · 2021-01-12T15:49:22+00:00

Anybody have a good source for current rate of divorce.. I remember years ago people said it was like 60% but its a very hard number to pin down, from what I recall.

iamaneviltaco · 2021-01-12T16:02:43+00:00

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-25/millennials-are-causing-the-u-s-divorce-rate-to-plummet

that your starting hypothesis was dead as you typed it. Divorce rates aren’t climbing. They’re falling. Heavily. ”some people“ have no clue what they’re talking about.

bribedzapp · 2021-01-12T16:11:49+00:00

Marriage in the past was a contract. People, especially women, nowadays are completely hypocritical about that fact. The "commitment" grandpa and grandma had had nothing to do with "love", and certainly had nothing to do with the expectation that the male half of a couple would be monogamous.

LillthOfBabylon · 2021-01-12T16:37:52+00:00

Many people say that divorce rates are up because people aren’t taking commitment as seriously as previous generations,

But what I think is that it’s because women weren’t able to leave bad marriages back in the day and divorce was more frowned upon back then.

It's both.

pissdrinkerdotcom · 2021-01-12T17:12:10+00:00

changing attitudes towards divorce within society means that it’s not as frowned upon to get divorce so people are more likely to go through with it. furthermore, acts such as the divorce reform act (1969) and the divorce, dissolution and separation act (2020) have made it easier to get a divorce, thus leading to an increase.

additionally, women used to have no choice but to get married because they relied financially upon men, and it was expected that they should get married and become a housewife/mother. now women have the freedom to get a job and there is less pressure to be married and fulfil the traditional expressive role. so yes, the changing position of women, among other factors, have contributed to the rising divorce rate.

from a postmodern perspective, there is greater individualism within society and people stay in relationships that benefit them and leave those that don’t. people will then get a divorce if the marriage if personally fulfilling them.

(i feel like i should specify that this is from the perspective of a british person, i don’t know anything about social attitudes regarding divorce in other countries)

Dogecoin_trader · 2021-01-12T19:06:11+00:00

There is also the other side of the coin, 50 or 100 ago you could fall in love with someone in your early years, get married and stay in a good marriage until the end of your life. And it was seen as normal or even common.

Flightlessbirbz · 2021-01-12T20:28:56+00:00

I think that’s most of it. Divorce was just very frowned upon for religious and social reasons so people avoided it like the plague. Their marriages weren’t necessarily good. Various arguments can be made for staying in a bad marriage “for the kids,” but ultimately I don’t think it’s any healthier for the kids than a divorce. I wished my parents would divorce when I was a kid because there was so much yelling and strife. But divorced families aren’t ideal either, obviously. People just need to be very sure of who they’re marrying before getting married and especially before having children.

Krychek26 · 2021-01-12T22:33:01+00:00

It's both to be honest, women leave helpless marriages they couldn't leave before but also don't fight as hard to keep a family together as they used to.

abaxeron · 2021-01-12T23:48:42+00:00

What do you all think?

"It's good to abandon men who lost their physical and mental health protecting women's useless weak asses from potential invasion supported by nukes"...

Look, with all respect, I think it's a self-refuting idea which drags itself into abyss and also grabs "women are free therapists" argument on its way down (since what I get from your example, this "free therapy" from wife had no effect on making your grandfather normal functioning member of society again).

BadWrath · 2021-01-13T00:08:15+00:00

Divorce rates are up because of women. Point. Blank. Period.

Zonkey_Zeedonk · 2021-01-13T01:07:44+00:00

I agree with you mostly. I think it’s a couple of different things:

As you said, it’s now more socially acceptable than ever for women to initiate divorce proceedings.
More women are educated/financially self sufficient than in past generations, so they don’t need to stay in relationships to be financially supported if said relationships are bad.
Divorce in general is more socially acceptable than it used to be for both sexes.

I’ve actually seen a few stats about millennial marriages that suggest millennials are less likely to get married, and get married later in life than previous gens, but that those that do get married are less likely to get divorced than gen Xers. That suggests commitment is actually taken more seriously in our generation: we actually think about and consider who we marry more, and so stay married more often.

Nodeal_reddit · 2021-01-13T03:34:09+00:00

Just and FYI that the idea that we live longer than our ancestors is mostly a myth. So there hasn’t really ever been a time in recorded history, outside of war or other disaster, when people were “lucky to see 40”.

Life expectancy is an average. If you have two children, and one dies before their first birthday but the other lives to the age of 70, their average life expectancy is 35. Lots of people died in childhood, which brings down the average, but then they generally lived just as long as we do today.

IcarusKiki · 2021-01-13T15:47:20+00:00

Divorce rates actually peaked in the early 80s and ironically the young tradwives of the 50s that men sperg about here were the ones doing the divorcing. What men here don’t realize is that even though they want a young 18-22 yo wife without a college degree (because educated women bad) those women are more likely to divorce than a woman who marries later in her 20s and has an education. Divorce isn’t a random thing and rates goes down dramatically for first time married people who are college educated and late-20s to early 30s.

excess_inquisitivity · 2021-01-12T07:11:25+00:00

Ex: My grandfather was destroyed from the Korean War, he came back a changed and awful man who drank and was abusive to my dad and grandmother. She couldn’t leave because in her time, women weren’t able to work and were all raised to be housewives making them completely dependent on their husbands financially.

Bullshit, at least in the US. My grandmothers were able and did work. They got shit wages at some times because of "surpluses" of labors as the economy shifted, but mostly when men got shit wages too.

But what support was your grandfather given, except "advice" to buckle up & get back to work? Mine weren't allowed to talk about the shit they'd seen. One of my grandmothers had to drive her husband /my grandfather to work & back because all he could do on the road was cry. Maybe today, she'd have dumped him as a crybaby. Hooray for both of them, right?

stats135 · 2021-01-12T02:26:09+00:00

Leaving whenever a marriage gets bad and not taking commitment seriously is one and the same. What I'm seeing is a man supporting his family as a soldier and gets PTSD from fighting for his country, only to come back home to a wife that wants to divorce him.

MyLadySupporter · 2021-01-12T08:19:03+00:00

Nah women are just more narcissistic and self-obsessed than ever before due to social media.

Previous generations actually cared about the welfare of their children and the damage divorce does to their emotional lives.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-01-12T02:46:13+00:00

I think women only left the previous situation because they were told that they couldn't. Being stuck inside is what they couldn't handle, not that things were actually bad for the majority of women due to being with abusive or bad partners.

umnothnxbye · 2021-01-12T02:31:54+00:00

[deleted]

JameisBong · 2021-01-12T11:08:10+00:00

I thought the leading reason for divorce was finances, not PTSD from Korea no?

Title	Question about divorce rates
Author	Sufficient-Ad-3586
Upvotes	158
Comments	292
Date	January 12, 2021 1:56 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/kvhorj/question_about_divorce_rates/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question-about-divorce-rates.729060 https://theredarchive.com/post/729060

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