Women don’t hate men being vulnerable. These men claiming so just don’t know how to act like adults or date emotionally unavailable women.

babazuki · 2023-11-22T12:41:00+00:00

You don't think it's odd that these videos exist and have views and likes?

Can you find videos of women praising their men en for crying or being vulnerable? Can you find videos of men shitting on their women for crying?

It's a distinctly feminine trait to be emotionally vulnerable.

Maybe there are women that will tolerate it from men. It's still not optimal for men to act this way if they want to be attractive to women. And it's of no benefit.

ArtifactFan65 · 2023-11-22T12:32:59+00:00

I must be incredibly attractive to women then as a vulnerable, neurotic, highly emotional man, and I expect my inbox will soon be flooded with DMs from horny women.

MassiveScarcity5337 · 2023-11-22T12:43:50+00:00

Look at r/askmen and see how many of them say opening up was used against them

AdEffective7894s · 2023-11-22T11:38:28+00:00

There are no studies done about it but everywhere men gather whether it is RP space or not this is almost always one of the things brought up, an enduring topic of discussion. r/askmen has atleast one giant thread every few months detailing this phenomenon. Why are women simply unable to accept this? why is the fact that men are saying that women don't react well to vulnerability from men so unacceptable!

Women tell us time and time again that they are assaulted, that they experience sexual harassment from the age of 12 etc. We are supposed to accept this Mark of Cain on the entire gender and accept not being trusted without taking it too personally. That is not to say men who deny these things dont exist but they are rightly seen as misogynists.

But women by and large deny that mens vulnerability is not dealt with properly by a significant proportion of women. And like true narcissists deflect the blame by point flaws at the person being vulnerable.

Men crying that he doesn't know when he’ll get a job, or pay the bills, or if his hard work will pay off.
Men crying over missing loved one.
Men revealing their trauma.
Men feeling lonely.
Men just he found love.

All of the scenarios which you presented as moment where vulnerability is treasured ( thanks for you seal of approval by the way, men were definitely suffering from not know what situations are LOB approved) is not a 100% as many men can attest to. But of course your standard MO to those responses would be to blithey say :" IDK where are you meeting such women and why you gave her the time of day. The women I know wouldn't do that. Might be a skill issue"

If this isn't proof of widespread misandry i don't know what is.

Perhaps the men who deny women's experiences had the right idea

_Remember_me_not_ · 2023-11-22T12:55:29+00:00

It's good that all women have their red flags plastered on their foreheads for men to understand their state of mind and latest likes and dislikes.

jay10033 · 2023-11-22T11:55:13+00:00

So the one time someone presented 10 examples to you, you twisted yourself into knots rejecting it by coming up with an excuse by saying these women are hated by other women, but you've provided no proof that they are hated by other women.

You're engaging in the same thing you're accusing others of doing which is why your post is unserious.

SleepyPoemsin2020 · 2023-11-22T14:13:55+00:00

I don't personally doubt that a number of men experience this. It is reasonable that when you're in a situation to express vulnerability - especially if you're not someone typically comfortable doing so - that you're not going to be texting about it or ready to whip out your phone and get a video.

It's not entirely a gendered experience either, in that male partners are certainly not always supportive and understanding in displays of vulnerability from their female partner. Sometimes far from it.

However, my personal theory is that men wanting a traditional woman are more likely to run into this. Women I've personally known who have expressed distaste for male vulnerability (or praising men for not showing emotion) were on the conservative/religious side. It also makes sense, that if you want a traditional woman...she is going to be more likely to want a traditional man which means stoic.

MxMaster9907 · 2023-11-22T11:46:29+00:00

Being vulnerable and being emotionally unstable are two different things.

You probably shouldn’t be crying every day, but hell man, if you’re going through a rough time, your partner should be there for you.

abaxeron · 2023-11-22T11:27:58+00:00

The only time I have seen women hate vulnerable men:

"The only time" implies 1 instance. You brought 10.

The problem: These women show a pattern.

Yes, they are female.

Anyways, came to bring this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11fokt7/what_did_you_open_up_about_that_caused_the_end_of/

bottleblank · 2023-11-22T11:37:02+00:00

This isn't even the start of it, this is just the poisoned cherry on top of the cake made out of sawdust, concrete, broken glass, and lead. People, broadly, and society don't give a fuck about men. The fact that any of those women are explicitly willing to say it out loud and give specific bullet points as to why are just the big major obvious examples. They stand out, they're used as the loudest demonstrations.

But that's just the straw the broke the camel's back. Even when not subjected to these specific TikTok videos spelling it out in bitter spite, men have to deal with society raving about how women need this, women lack that, women blah blah blah (in addition to actual minorities, with similar messaging), and men get told to "man up", "touch grass", "fix your shit", "be better", and so on. Men are still supposed to be the mindless, stoic, mechanical worker drones, uncaring about their own needs or issues and instead being (or pretending to be) a resource for everybody else.

This has always been true, but the difference now is that the messaging that says everybody else gets to have attention and help is just so loud (and often actively antagonistic towards men) it's impossible to ignore.

When everybody's just working to not die, when life is shit for everyone, when nobody has any help, that's one thing, men are just in the same boat as everybody else (and we've been pretty tolerant of women getting the better end of the deal in many ways), but when the field is tilted so hard it's fucking vertical, and we're at the bottom, yeah, you're damn right we're going to start speaking up and talking about how much we get pissed on and told it's raining.

Ghetto_Scholar · 2023-11-22T11:38:05+00:00

Rollo wrote about this. This is what he called beta bait. Where women try to trick betas into outing themselves.

KayRay1994 · 2023-11-22T15:20:23+00:00

One thing I often bring up is that there is a difference between being vulnerable and being weak - trauma dumping and whining are shows of weakness. Crying when it isn’t appropriate or letting your emotions get the best of you is weakness. Seeking professional help to manage these emotions, taking time to process things before talking about issues, opening up from a spot of asking for help are all signs of vulnerability.

Is there an element of “but women can express whatever they want and men can’t!” sure, to an extent, but given that men and women express their emotions differently + the different social roles both sexes (usually) play, that’s expected. The issue is lots of men are mad they can’t act the same way and be viewed as attractive… when, no shit - most people want the puzzle piece to complete them, not somebody with the same issues. The red pill and other manosphere spaces have all opted that the best route is to reenforce toxic masculinity and double down on being emotionally closed off rather than thinking about critically.

So yes, men should 100% express themselves and be vulnerable - but also know that vulnerability is not weakness, and that by expressing one, you are not expressing the other.

Nihi1986 · 2023-11-22T15:52:59+00:00

I can't bring evidence, other than red pilled evolutionary psychology theories about manliness, protector/hunter roles and so on... however, I have to say that almost every time I made myself emotionally available and vulnerable in a relationship it ruined it, making me a little bit needy or dependant with its subsequent insecurity.

My personal theory (just my theory), women want men they are dating to be vulnerable so they can be manipulated and to make them more dependent on the woman, it's a way of bonding, it means getting closer to each other, it's also a form of intimacy and trust.

Now, what does that mean? It means the less attractive and most interested women will want you to open up so she has a chance of becoming more important in your life, while the hot women with plenty of options will want you to open up only when she needs it. Once she has all the power, if she's not very interested on you, will see it as emotional labor. This is the part where I agree with op.

Truth is, most people don't want you to be emotional and vulnerable. If you need to open up, I suggest doing so with your friends (a good female friend can be a good option as long as it's not romantic). It will also show you who is a true friend and who's there just for the interest.

Women do 'hate' (I'd just say dislike) emotionally vulnerable men as soon as that becomes some sort of a problem for them (in a non romantic context) and hate it in relationships when the guy was already dissapointing her in some way and isn't seen as a life partner.

Ackee_an_Salfish · 2023-11-22T14:06:55+00:00

Lilithofbabylon coming with your daily dose of “I have no idea wtf I’m talking about but I’ll post my thoughts anyways”

_Ad_Astra_Abyssosque · 2023-11-22T12:15:19+00:00

In my experience... it's a little of column A and B. Vulnerability is rewarded in a healthy relationship. If you can't be vulnerable with your girlfriend, dump her. You're dating the wrong girl. After crying and being vulnerable with my exes, nothing changed. However, there are plenty of women who view men through a weird hyper masculine lens due to socialization. In their eyes, men can't be soft or vulnerable because it's unnatural, feminine, or bad. If you value your sanity, avoid those women.

nonplussedminus · 2023-11-22T14:02:47+00:00

Man, this is why I don't go outside.

mods_have_small_ween · 2023-11-22T21:29:02+00:00

Brene brown is the leading researcher on this topic. She found experimentally that women feel disgust when men are vulnerable

/thread

Cablepussy · 2023-11-22T13:52:59+00:00

As yes another post where you are shown evidence, dismiss it, pivot, tell ‘em “ha gotcha”, and then don’t reply to them again after they debunk your reply.

My favorite posts to read.

naughtychick9999 · 2023-11-22T14:18:55+00:00

Sometimes I wonder if this is a case of "she divorced me because I left the dishes by the sink" where men attribute her leaving to one simple act (crying or being vulnerable) when in fact it's numerous small issues that compounded to make her decide that's enough.

I once had a boyfriend bawl in front of me over an incident that happened many years prior and if anything it made me feel closer and love him more.

meisterkraus · 2023-11-22T12:37:15+00:00

The real problem here is women expect men to share their vulnerability the same way women do. Men and women are different. Psychology becoming mainstream is fueling this. Most of the studies we see have mostly women as participants. And more than 50% don't find therapy helpful as it is not targeting how they think but say they have to think like most women.

DisplacedBitzer · 2023-11-22T15:28:19+00:00

I opened up about not wanting to be like my father(anger issues, etc). That falls under your ‘appreciate’ list i would presume. Guess who I got compared to in the next fight? Never, ever got an apology for how she used the shit I was vulnerable about against me. She’s now my ex, but my real life experiences track that if I’m vulnerable, that stuff will be used against me, hence me not being vulnerable with current gf. And that seems to be a working strategy so far.

Financial_Window_990 · 2023-11-22T17:57:21+00:00

This whole thing has been proven wrong.

Aafan_Barbarro · 2023-11-24T12:49:49+00:00

Why would any man risk his relationship over being vulnerable? For that tiny chance it won't do any irreversible damage to how woman sees or treats him? Not worth it.

dmatthews021120 · 2023-11-22T11:51:29+00:00

I don't know that women hate vulnerable men and may even find them endearing. But that doesn't mean they desire them. And I do think vulnerability in almost any quantity will dampen female desire.

As a guy, just speaking from my own experience, I can say that it is a bit of turn off for women. Note I'm an American male; perhaps cultural context matters.

I want to focus on this list:

Women appreciate vulnerable men. For example:

Men crying that he doesn't know when he’ll get a job, or pay the bills, or if his hard work will pay off.

Men crying over missing loved one.

Men revealing their trauma.

Men feeling lonely.

Men just he found love.

The ONLY one that might not turn a woman off here is crying over a missed love one, particularly if they just died, and the 'revealing their trauma' is entirely dependent on the trauma.

The others on the list -- most women I've interacted with and have a trusting relationship with...if you can kind of 'get them off the record' and talk about men in general, talk about their relationships, talk about their libidos: they don't want men getting emotional about their jobs, about failures, about loneliness, the bills, or even their feelings for the woman or any women. Jobs, professional failures, money -- deep down, my view is MOST women want men to go solve their problems, not wallow in any capacity. Not a bit. And men getting into their feelings about loneliness and love will trigger female fears that she's with an unappealing dud who isn't capable of walking out the door and finding other women to fuck. THAT feeling is a turn on, and men who engage in the opposite are trigger women's fears about your sexual value.

And so when you do this, you're putting the woman into the mommy frame. Some women enjoy that. Many probably do. But that's not a woman who wants to fuck. She wants to care. Getting a woman to cuddle and sooth your sad might feel good in the moment, but whether you know it or not, you're on the path to a dead bedroom. It's an inversion of gender roles. Women don't want to fuck the men they have to care for. The relationship might survive but the more you lean into any of this, the more her desire is going to plummet.

You even alluded to this -- about "Men being ‘vulnerable’ 24/7." You know that deep down, women don't want to be doing that kind of emotional labor for the men they let penetrate them. It's the role women do for children, for weak people, for needy people, and they do it well. She just doesn't want that energy from the guy she's fucking.

So the question is: why do it at all? It's like hardcore drug use. Sure, you might survive it, but doing it in any amount is going to cause harm. Some drugs are fun, but crying and getting into your feelings usually isn't -- so if I was consulting with a dude -- I'd question why you want to do any of this with a woman you want to continue to have a sexual relationship with.

Obviously if you're beloved grandma dies, the dog gets run over, your shared children are severely ill -- being real vulnerable in those moments might deepen her love for you and she'll accept it.

But as a general rule, men ought to be extremely extremely extremely judicious showing and displaying weakness around women they want to fuck. Every incident will add up over time and it's going to accumulate exponentially and be very very difficult to recover from. It's one of those areas that are really difficult to come back from. You can do a lot to a woman and she'll forgive you, but 'too much vulnerability' / too much weakness and she'll think she spotted your true colors and any attempts to recalibrate won't be accepted.

It's kind of really doubly bad, because you MIGHT trigger her genuine bonds for you -- you might get that oxytocin release from you crying on her lap -- but each tear she sheds in sympathetic sadness for you is one that left her pussy. Now you're in a situation where she feels like your mother or your sister and has to care for you, and can't leave you, but her libidinal energy for you is gone, and she doesn't know why, and you're both absolutely stuck with each other but not really enjoying the appropriate male/female sexual energy of the thing.

Happens ALL THE TIME -- women who get stuck feeling zero sexual attraction for a man she once wanted to fuck all the time, but with no desire to leave him. A confused man not getting sex but with all other facets of the relationship going well.

What happened?:

*Man too weak

*Woman in mommy mode

You turned the woman into your mother. We all love our mothers. And mothers love their sons more than anything. But that's not a sexual energy my dudes. Don't bring your relationship there.

SecondEldenLord · 2023-11-22T13:47:53+00:00

It has been proven time and time again that women hate men being vulnerable because that ltriggers their inner instinct and telling women "hey, this man cannot protect you" while women will throw themselves at the bad boys because of protection and the feel of thrills.

sometimesthisisweird · 2023-11-22T12:02:08+00:00

These 10 examples are some attention seeking so called influencers. They look like they are 18-21. Young inexperiences playing dumb ass games that young women play. Most women grow out of this phase. Most people are adults about it. Most men are cool being vulnerable with the significant others and get support from it.

Steakman1 · 2023-11-22T13:14:47+00:00

I don’t think it’s hated. But I do think it’s seen as a turn off. If you’ve been in a long term relationship, your partner should be able to endure some things that aren’t necessarily attractive. And typically she will unless she already had reasons she doesn’t like you anymore. A woman in a long term relationship wouldn’t break up with her partner because he farted in front of her. But it still isn’t an attractive thing to do. But fart in front of someone you’ve only been dating for a short period of time, and they might get the ick. I view crying in front of your partner in a similar way. The main thing I would disagree with is that it’s actually an attractive thing to do rather than an unattractive thing that women will be ok with if you have been with her for long enough. But If you’re able to be vulnerable without being emotional, then you will be fine. I think where women claim being vulnerable is attractive is when a guy can say he’ll get through whatever he is going through without breaking down at all. Basically, have a stoic approach to it

Low_Charge_7478 · 2023-11-22T13:16:18+00:00

OP: "should i have a moment of introspection?"

OP: https://prnt.sc/IEaNMq7t-S90

Junior_Ad_3086 · 2023-11-22T14:29:14+00:00

it's not difficult to connect the dots when it comes to women disliking men who are overly emotionally vulnerable when you consider the fact that women relied on men for their survival for millennia. a man crying about his problems simply wasn't a good bet and our biological wiring and evolutionary psychology still dictate a lot of our preferences and behaviors today. it lines up with a lot of men's self-reported experiences as well, do you think guys just make it up?

KamuiObito · 2023-11-22T19:15:16+00:00

Your always dismissive towards males. Like females dont date men solely cuz they are superior humans than them.

Critical_Lettuce2899 · 2023-11-22T12:35:32+00:00

Emotional men are losers, no amount of gas lighting can change that

No-Rough-7390 · 2023-11-22T14:57:56+00:00

The word itself, vulnerable, is defined by something that can hamper you.

But hey, if you don’t believe it, so be it. I’ve experienced it enough to know that once a woman gets pissed off, whatever you were “vulnerable” about will get brought up/thrown in your face. It’s not a smart move.

Women hate “emotionally unavailable” men out of envy. They don’t understand it and can’t. It also shows that they have less leverage to manipulate/control/use power if he is relatively unaffected by things and can UNDERSTAND his emotions as opposed to being controlled by them.

A prime example is women hate the idea that their hormones change during their period and can make them a bitch, yet for some reason want men to act similarly when something is bothering them (that, in all honesty, probably doesn’t that much to begin with).

When something happens to women they typically think “how should I feel about this?”

When something happens to men they typically think “what should I do about this?”

Quite the contrast.

Emergency_Ad_6954 · 2023-11-22T15:17:19+00:00

You’re better off keeping your problems unknown to a woman. They’re not built to understand mens issues. Nor do they actually care. It’s best to take it up to your closest male friends or brothers if you can. Women will lose respect for you. I can’t present evidence other than explaining what I’ve seen my entire life and you can easily pull up videos on the internet where women will say once they see a man cry they lose attraction for him.

Sophiatab · 2023-11-22T15:17:47+00:00

It depends. I despise vulnerable men because I know if given a chance those vulnerable men will not hesitate to prey on a vulnerable woman.

Lina-Inverse · 2023-11-22T18:22:26+00:00

Lmao most men literally have experienced it themselves the hard way. That's why the view exists in the first place.

The problem: These women show a pattern. Vain, bitchy women who were typically hot. Most women wouldn’t want to be around these types, but guys do.

. But women who aren't like that have a very similar view as well. If you think only women like that hold the view then you're mistaken. Who do you think is liking these videos? Its just regular non tiktok women who if adked in person would probably lie and say she likes vulnerable guys.

Also not all women are kind enough to be up front about hating vulnerable men. Imo the women in those tiktoks are doing men a public service saying out loud what most women wont say. That type of woman is preferable to the type to like (or pretend to like vulnerable men) but stab them in the back with those same vulnerabilities later on.

Your mind won't be changed on this as you're not a guy so I'd imagine you have no context for why men showing meaningful deep vulnerability to women is absolute no no.

I say meaningful to differentiate it from superficial vulnerabilities (ie ones the guy doesn't care about) . These are ok to show women.

Don't listen to what women say, watch what they do.

soviet_enjoyer · 2023-11-22T21:17:21+00:00

Yeah sure. Nobody is going to fall for your bs anyway. We know what’s best for our chances and it’s not crying in front of women. No matter how much mental gymnastics you do to deny the obvious.

BZP625 · 2023-11-22T15:53:10+00:00

Women love to define how they want men to behave and perform, and label it as being an "adult." In this way, they can accuse a man of not meeting their standards, usually being feminine, as not being an "adult," and it's variant's such as man-child and man-baby. When I see the word "adult," I assume there is some misandry coming.

Many women like men being vulnerable, but only if, when, and how they would be vulnerable, and only if the man opens up to them in the proper way, which allows her to solve his problem for him. It plays to her momentary instincts for motherhood. The problem comes in when his vulnerability moves outside her boundaries, or it doesn't end in a duration she deems as acceptable.

In other words, be vulnerable when I think it's acceptable, open up to me so I can solve your problems, then return to adulthood and be a man.

ugglet · 2023-11-22T14:51:24+00:00

"One anecdotal evidence for you"

SentientNose · 2023-11-23T02:11:01+00:00

It's completely irrelevant to wether women like or hate the behavior.

It's set in stone that male vulnerability in relationships KILLS attraction in the relationship, this is an undisputable fact.

It is therefore selfish on a man's part to be intentionally vonerable in a relationship with a woman, he has a million other outlets he can open up vonerable to, why compromise your relationship because you want to be randomly vonerable.

AutoModerator · 2023-11-22T11:17:43+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

AutoModerator · 2023-11-22T11:17:44+00:00

Hi OP,

You've chosen to identify your thread as a CMV. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. PPD has guidelines for what that involves.

OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.

An unwillingness to have your view challenged may be inferred from one or several of the following:

Asking few or no genuine questions;

Seeming more interested in arguing or convincing others than understanding opposing views;

Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;

Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;

Focusing only on the weaker arguments;

Explicit statements of an intent to change the other posters’ minds; or

Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.

Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to CMV OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

oofieoofty · 2023-11-22T15:06:41+00:00

So one thing is that a woman has to love a man first before she accepts him being vulnerable.

ambrosedc · 2023-11-22T16:18:53+00:00

Being "typically hot" is not an excuse for them to be "vain" "bitchy" or excuse their sociopathic targeting of and preying on vulnerable/effeminate men

AFuzzyMuffin · 2023-11-22T19:04:18+00:00

I sort of disagree OP. I think you are giving women too much credit. I think during women’s most popular and vocal time aka 20s, this type of mindset and behavior can be popular.

Even if some women think it’s silly women tend to be very influenced by what is socially expected, so are men but we will get to that later.

So these men see women act like this openly wether or not internally the women don’t agree and are given an impression that this is how all women are.

This causes them to form toxic beliefs and behaviors towards women which reinforces what women do. And then they form toxic families where young girls grow up thinking this is normal or worse internally seek this kinda stuff out.

It all comes down to most people are sheep and can’t really think beyond certain levels easily. Men and women are both doomed I think currently as far as dating goes. I think with the rise of therapy tho it will improve in 30 years.((?

tawny-she-wolf · 2023-11-22T20:17:15+00:00

I feel like the whole "women hate vulnerable men" also completely discounts context.

It's not even socially acceptable for women to be vulnerable/emotional in some situations.

I feel like most well adjusted women would not mind their partner opening up and being vulnerable much less think less of him for doing so. It tends to bring healthy partners closer together, actually and shows good communication among other things.

What about all those cases where a guy was vulnerable and got dumped/ghosted ? Well from what I've seen it's usually a combination of things: - the context of the relarionship: if you're out looking for casual sex you don't generally get to know the other person very deeply - the timing of the sharing: if you're looking for a serious relationship maybe you don't spend the entire first date being vulnerable/complaining about your life or putting yourself down. It's offputting. No one wants to date a downer - the gravity of the things shared (usually combined with a relationship that is still fairly new or casual): you don't trauma dump on a virtual stranger - the frequency: if you're complaining every day especially about the same things without ever taking any steps to fix it, it's exhausting - using the person as your therapist: yes partners offer support but for anything serious you need a paid professional or at least a circle of friends and family to help out instead of relying only on a romantic partner - if non of the above then usually it's the partner that has their own issues (lack of empathy, emotionally unavailable etc)

All of this applies regardless of gender. If a woman did this, most well adjusted men who aren't just willing to put up with anything just to get sex would also break it off/find it very unattractive.

Title	Women don’t hate men being vulnerable. These men claiming so just don’t know how to act like adults or date emotionally unavailable women.
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	0
Comments	311
Date	November 22, 2023 11:17 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1816usi/women_dont_hate_men_being_vulnerable_these_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-dont-hate-men-being-vulnerable-these-men.1239099 https://theredarchive.com/post/1239099

Comments