Men and women both are afraid of being used by the other gender. And there's an easy way to fix this.

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-04-03T15:50:22+00:00

Removed for bad faith.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-04-03T10:42:30+00:00

I'm sympathetic to the idea that past religions still have a lot to teach us about human nature. However, one has to also understand that we are in uncharted territory here due to technology. Sex and reproduction have only recently been divorced, and not only have we had little time to adapt culturally and consciously, but what evolved instincts we have are millennia behind.

And it is more than that. We have mixed instincts, but it is pretty clear that lifelong monogamy does run counter to them. However, in past conditions, such monogamy was seen as culturally adaptive, so we found ways to make it work, despite it being against our evolved instincts. But one should survey the terrain when it did work, technological and cultural.

We had culturally suppressed the sexual impulse, especially the female. Furthermore, we tended to live much shorter and harder lives. If a woman married in her early to mid 20s, she would start pumping out babies. For much of our history, the typical woman might die pumping out babies. The hard labor she did combined with pregnancy and breastfeeding children aged these women early, by modern standards. People were dirtier, tired and had less leisure time for sex. They got uglier and less attractive earlier. So for lifelong monogamy to work, it didn't have to cover that much time until people were dead or unfuckable.

Everything is different now. You need so much more learning to be economically productive that you are not independent until much older, while nutrition has often made puberty come earlier. So we have this new and prolonged pre-culturally adult but sexually mature stage to contend with, where reproduction is divorced from sex. And then we need less kids because of higher survival rates. So the post-marriage kid producing stage is shorter and does less damage to a woman's attractiveness. And then we are fuckable and sexually active after making babies for a much, much longer time.

The ancient wisdoms around lifelong monogamy never had to really contend with any of this. To the extent they did, as modernity dawned, we see a pattern of lifelong monogamy slowly breaking down as more and more of the abovementioned factors came into play with increasing strength.

I think there is still wisdom to sexual constraint of some kind. The kind of sexual free-for-all we see now is not serving anybody well. But classic sexual conservatism needs updating for modernity, and we do not seem to have found the right recipe, especially when we consider the needs of children.

Edit: Posters have brought up statistical average life expectancy, and actual life span are quite different. Many people died in the past in infancy. Childbirth and violence also impacted things. But if you survived those, particularly child mortality, life spans were not so different. Plus, given a lack of lighting, it was hard to be productive after the lights went out for many people. This gave many of them plenty of time for sex, maybe more than we have now. Main argument is still valid: the terrain is radically different than in the past, but it does matter HOW it is different in terms of deciding what ancient wisdom seems applicable.

raju1462 · 2022-04-03T10:38:32+00:00

I unironically & wholeheartedly agree. Men & Women should both stop having Casual Sex.

cloudydays84 · 2022-04-03T13:35:19+00:00

If you just want to have sex don't pretend you want a relationship.

If you want a relationship and sex and the sex hasn't happened as early or isn't to your liking, have a conversation about it or move on.

If you're not actually into the thought of being with a person don't get into a relationship with them just because.

The simplest solution is for people to stop bullshitting

Grappleheart · 2022-04-03T09:58:21+00:00

Well I agree wholeheartedly with this. It seems we as a society have become obsessed with having our cake and eating it too

KickAss2021 · 2022-04-03T12:13:21+00:00

@Sillygooseylooseylucy

It's so great to be with an experienced women and her amazing children that are her world! OMG I just love that I got to do the real fun things in life like Taxes, paying off credit card debt, kitchen renovations, saving for college tuition, and making sure Daxton Jr, and MacKinnley's vomit gets cleaned up! It's so grand to have the pleasure of getting to pay for her Lexapro medication and making sure that she ends up getting half my income when she inevitably divorces me.

your sexual history59. Women who lost their virginity as a teenager are more than twice as likely to get divorced in the first 5 years of marriage than women who waited until age 18 or older.60. A 2011 study at the University of Iowa found that for both men and women, the loss of virginity before age 18 was correlated with a greater number of occurrences of divorce within the first 10 years of marriage.61. When compared to women who began sexual activity in their early 20s, girls who initiated sexual activity at ages 13 or 14 were less than half as likely to be in stable marriages in their 30s. – (in this study a stable marriage was defined as a marriage of over five years).

https://www.wf-lawyers.com/divorce-statistics-and-facts/

https://lifeisbeautiful.org/statistics-on-fatherless-homes/

libs mental issues

https://wbckfm.com/new-pew-study-white-liberals-mental-problems/

Why are you TikTokers so cringey, go do a dance with Charles Di'Amelo?

None0fYour8usiness · 2022-04-03T14:19:48+00:00

Based take

poppy_blu · 2022-04-03T10:57:38+00:00

No. Neurotic risk averse emotional fragile people of both genders are afraid of being used.

women should stop having casual sex

So men are going to fuck each other then?

Choice-Instance-8409 · 2022-04-03T09:48:25+00:00

In short ur saying is.....Christianity is the only way to achieve it.

EulenWatcher · 2022-04-03T10:29:30+00:00

You do get that you can turn it the other way around and say that no man should have casual sex, don't you?

januaryphilosopher · 2022-04-03T10:18:17+00:00

You're putting the burden of your solution on one party, but it takes two to have sex. Men should stop having casual sex too. (Because it's not just men who want it.)

Typicalinternetuser9 · 2022-04-03T12:24:48+00:00

This belongs on /r/im14andthisisdeep

social_mule · 2022-04-03T14:07:19+00:00

Is there an option B?

techr0nin · 2022-04-03T10:21:14+00:00

But as a guy that can get casual sex just fine, what’s in it for me?

Battlegoat123 · 2022-04-03T12:08:48+00:00

Ill start this off by saying that I agree that casual sex is detrimental to the dating scene, but I don’t agree fully with your post.

I believe that casual sex for women is counterintuitive, but I don’t think the same is true for men.

The male Simp is the female Slut. Both of these groups give their commitment quickly and without need of reciprocation, and they get suboptimal results because of it.

Commitment is different between the genders. Women commit with sex, men commit with time/money. When a woman has sex with a man, she’s taking on the risk of having a kid with him. When a man invests time/money in a woman, he takes on the risk of losing that investment.

So, two people engaging in casual sex only carries significant risk for one. Just the same, two people engaging in a sexless relationship carries significant risk for just one.

Assuming this holds true, your argument could be flipped to say: “nobody should engage in a relationship without first having casual sex”.

If every man on earth decided to court their woman for a few months before wanting sex, we’d see a lot of failed relationships. The same can be said if every woman on earth was suddenly ok with casual sex without a relationship.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2022-04-03T14:03:52+00:00

Used for what? What man "demands sex"? Sexy men do not demand sex, they have it. A man has never 'demanded' I have sex with him unless you are talking about orbiters and I don't know why women pay attention to them.

HumanNumber348 · 2022-04-03T10:23:57+00:00

Retarded plan. How would refraining from casual sex mean that women would be less interested in a man's security and company?

LucyintheskyM · 2022-04-03T10:15:45+00:00

We gave that a good try for several millenia, didn't work for us, fought hard to escape from it. Give us some time to see if this whole 'personal autonomy' thing works out, yeah?

Being real, I don't think women won't sleep with men because they think he will fall in love with them if they don't put out. They think that if they are beginning to fall in love, sex will make them fall harder. If he's not that into them, that will make the break up harder. So if she (he or they, it's not specific) don't care about the relationship, whatever, sex doesn't mean shit. If they do care, then sex can mean more and they might have a harder time untangling feelings, so they vet harder.

It's not that the ONS people were chads. It's that they were irrelevant and weren't worth vetting for a relationship.

Or, you know, we could go back to the chastity belt look.

Paliant · 2022-04-03T11:15:51+00:00

Hmmmm… I wonder which gender has an easier time getting casual sex and thus, the onus would be on that gender to actually cause the cultural shift…

revente · 2022-04-03T11:55:24+00:00

Dumb.

Then everyone who wants just the sex, would get used for marriage.

Also not having sex is much worse than 'getting used'.

2022-04-03T12:01:50+00:00

This is the way

Nodeal_reddit · 2022-04-03T12:47:25+00:00

As a modern society, we’re in a constant rush to throw off all traditional societal norms. What if we get to the end of the road and realize that those traditional values were just incredibly hard-won wisdom codified?
When 99% of the planet’s cultures historically place an extremely high value on “traditional” marriage principles, maybe we should have a little humility and assume that there is some wisdom there.

krischens · 2022-04-03T10:43:20+00:00

An even easier way to fix this - don't date.

ThrowAwayBro737 · 2022-04-03T11:38:46+00:00

Bingo. It's almost as if Classical Western Society already figured this out thousands of years ago, and Feminism and the advent of birth control replaced millennia of truth with lies.

Holiday_Water5247 · 2022-04-03T12:58:39+00:00

This dude probably got burned by a chick who participates in casual sex so now his opinion on it has changed or is rather more extreme (by the looks of his comments on virginity and sluts). It seems like it’s a way to cope with the fact that nobody wants to be with him or the girls that he does ask out find him to be unappealing. Either way cringe and you seem like you are young. Good luck my friend!

Blaphrodite · 2022-04-03T13:08:54+00:00

While you’re right. This belongs in r/unpopularopinion

The male delegation will likely bury you with downvotes for this truth. Casual sex works for them

facsis · 2022-04-03T13:10:11+00:00

When you realize Chastity and Marriage have always been the way…

Visible_Seesaw4853 · 2022-04-03T10:54:57+00:00

The sad reality is, most women would rather be pumped and dumped by an apex predator than be forced into monogamy with a realistic option. 5 minutes of Chad is worth 50 years of Brad.

The genie is out of the bottle now. It isn't going back without some kind of global cataclysm.

PM_ME_ZED_BARA · 2022-04-03T12:19:57+00:00

Nah not interested. Why should I settle just for a romantic relationship when I can have both casual sex and long-term romantic relationship, especially if I have no problems getting either?

Lotus_82 · 2022-04-03T12:59:20+00:00

This is so stupid. First off, why do you care what other adults choose to do when it doesn’t affect you? And second, people are going to keep doing what feels good to them regardless of what anyone thinks.

I’m relatively average looking and I’ve never had to wait more than one date for sex and I’ve never come across a woman who didn’t want sex as fast ajs I did, so I pretty sure you’re just projecting incel fantasies on women when they find relationships just as tedious as men do when they’d rather be having commitment and drama-free sex with a quality dude.

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Nk-O · 2022-04-03T13:16:37+00:00

While I think containing the sexual exploitation of women (generally by "alpha men") would help I have some remarks:

How is this going to happen? What / who's enforcing it? We live in a free society were everything is accepted now. Wouldn't that be a step back?

But let's imagine we could do that somehow, then we should not forget the exploitation which women do on the other hand:
When we regulate men having casual sex, we need to regulate the attention seeking of not-ugly stacies too. These days mostly happening on social media. And this includes women posting nudes for attention on the internet btw (regardless of whether for free or OnlyFans et. al).

Cool_Weather_7763 · 2022-04-03T13:33:09+00:00

Good point but how fast a man get sex is so reflective of her interest in him sometimes. It’s a double edge sword.

OldSimpsonsisbetter · 2022-04-03T14:28:22+00:00

In theory, yes. In reality, good luck getting this to happen in this deregulated, sexually liberated marketplace. You would need some sort of government regulation to ensure this happens, like we have in economic markets to prevent market failures.

Deidara-katsu · 2022-04-03T14:48:31+00:00

1 attraction is not a choice

2 those days are over

monkeybeast55 · 2022-04-03T14:55:18+00:00

both gender should restrain from casual sex

Here's my ideal. Everybody is on their own journey. I think each gender should live their life according to what works for them, in a large diverse sexual ecosystem where nature and chaos and individualism drive us. There is no perfect society, no ordered security for the sexually and emotionally insecure.

Oh wait, that's the way it already is.

PurpleKittensRock · 2022-04-03T15:05:56+00:00

I support the initiative to stop casual sex (actually any sex outside of commitment, if it were my decision)

The only thing I disagree with the notion that women don’t want to have sex early on, only because we are afraid to get pumped and dumped. While that’s certainly unpleasant (yet easily recoverable from if there wasn’t much rapport/connection in the first place), it’s more because our attraction to men is often different.

Most women I know (there are exceptions) don’t want to have sex with strangers because they just don’t feel that level of bonding/attraction/trust of the man. I find a lot of men just look at a woman on a physical level and - that’s good enough to screw. But myself and many women will look at a man on the first couple dates and think - “yeah he looks nice, but he’s a stranger. I don’t truly know whether he’s safe (won’t turn violent in private), don’t know his personality, don’t know his values, most importantly don’t know how much he likes me or how much he would respect me. We only gauge these things later on.

baresquad · 2022-04-03T15:07:25+00:00

I just rather not live in fear of being used? It’s much easier than living in fear of things that likely won’t even happen

And casual sex is worth the fair trade off. I’m not gonna refrain from it because I can simply make women never feel used or discarded by always being 100% upfront about my intentions from the start

You guys make dating so hard I swear to god

flapperfemmefatale · 2022-04-03T15:12:10+00:00

What? I can have casual sex and still reject a dude who gets in a relationship with me and wants sex immediately. If he wants casual sex, he should have spoken up.

sarkington · 2022-04-03T15:16:03+00:00

Casual sex has never been normal or sanctioned

We just found that caring about it is inefficient

The morality police are expensive

throwaway164_3 · 2022-04-03T15:35:33+00:00

Simple,Men and women should stop having casual sex.

Not compatible with human instincts and evolutionary biology.

Humans have evolved to have sex

drew8311 · 2022-04-03T15:39:26+00:00

Most people looking for an LTR already know and do this

TesticalDefibrillate · 2022-04-03T15:42:48+00:00

We aren’t going to. And either are women. This isn’t a fix. It’s an impractical fantasy.

Fentonious8 · 2022-04-03T15:50:54+00:00

Why do you think the religions of the world mandated monogamy and chastity for the most part. They knew this would happen, granted, in a more localized setting

fnonpm · 2022-04-03T11:05:49+00:00

If society continues the way it is for 100 years without destruction then this will likely happen

People will become gayer especially men

Transwomen will look closer to females which will cause straight guys stop dating out of fear of being tricked

Full sense vr will provide an large amount (1 mill plus) of women to men of average to ugly looks

Don't start that intimacy shit(what intimacy) because average and below guys will get it from vr( Like a love simulator)

Male birth control will severly reduce pregnancy trapping so above average to high value guys can finally control who they want to have a baby with fully

The birth rate will plummet severly in the west and asia and barely no one will give a shit because it's weird to want to force women to be broodmares for men they don't care for

People will feel less of a need to follow authority directives

For example going to war or working harder at your job

Families will become a thing of the past as the government might step in to take care and educate your kids due to the lower birth rate

That's what I can see so far and I don't see it changing

AtTheEnd777 · 2022-04-03T14:02:33+00:00

Not happening. Men still used women way before hookup culture was a thing. Nothing we agree to will ever be enough to keep them happy or from being assholes.

2022-04-03T14:23:17+00:00

That genie isn’t going back in the bottle.

All you can control is your own behavior. Just don’t have it if it’s wrong for you. And if a guy wants to throw a temper tantrum because some mythical “chad” got some nonexistent casual, that’s his problem.

AquaChip · 2022-04-03T14:27:02+00:00

Lol it’s always the ones who don’t have to option to participate in causal sex always want people to stop having it. “if I can’t have it neither can you!”

Title	Men and women both are afraid of being used by the other gender. And there's an easy way to fix this.
Author	Visible_Seesaw4853
Upvotes	100
Comments	382
Date	April 3, 2022 9:43 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/tv5ns3/men_and_women_both_are_afraid_of_being_used_by/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-and-women-both-are-afraid-of-being-used-by-the.1108853 https://theredarchive.com/post/1108853

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