In bed, all the pressure to "perform" is in the man.

wtknight · 2022-04-02T14:17:41+00:00

Flaired as CMV as OP is making an affirmative claim in the post.

DeliciousPussyNectar · 2022-04-02T22:39:53+00:00

Yes. And women will complain when men aren’t good enough but do nothing to make it better.

techr0nin · 2022-04-02T10:14:01+00:00

In my experience the sex is never bad regardless of the woman’s skills if she is highly aroused. Like she can be totally passive but eagerly begging for dick and excited about what you’re gonna do to her, and that kind of sex can still be really exciting.

And this could be controvertial but how aroused she is is highly dependent on how attractive she finds you (not just physically but also mentally and circumstantially/framing). So in that sense bad sex typically means she doesn’t feel that much attraction towards you, at least in that moment. The question then is who is responsible for arousing the woman? And I think that’s complicated because I don’t think arousal is necessarily voluntary, although certainly women that know their bodies better will have an easier time getting into that state. But for women who don’t, I do think it’s the man’s job to guide and explore her body with her.

That said the inverse of that is a man not finding a woman arousing. But in that situation, and barring some sort of physiological or psychological issue, it’s likely that the man just doesn’t find the woman physically attractive. And in this situation, while a woman’s sex skills (or the man’s horniness) can still bridge the gap, it’s still more like you are masturbating with her body than any sort of intimate and passionate connection between two people.

TLDR: Men are responsible for women’s arousal, and women are responsible for men’s arousal. The difference is the mans responsibility is more active and holistic, whereas the women’s responsibility is decided the moment she takes off her clothes.

OldSimpsonsisbetter · 2022-04-02T19:15:36+00:00

The more a woman is attracted to you, the better the sex will be. The more initiative she will take to instigate sex and the more initiative she will take in the bedroom. The more she will tell you what she likes and how to make her cum.

The less the woman is attracted to you, the worse the sex will be. She will take no initiative to start sex, you must do all that yourself. She will lie there like a sack of disinterested potatoes in the bedroom. She won't tell you what she likes and you will get blamed for not being good enough.

Conclusion: make sure the woman is sufficiently attracted to you and sex will be great. All the things you mentioned in your OP exist when the woman doesn't really like you.

social_mule · 2022-04-02T12:36:08+00:00

Yeah, this is pretty much the case. Most women seem to think that, by default, they (a) are a good kisser, (b) give good head and (c) are great in bed. And yes, we should make it commonplace to talk about it. Jokes about women being starfish should be as ubiquitous as jokes about men not being able to find the clitoris.

DillonTheFatUglyMale · 2022-04-03T02:43:29+00:00

Most women wait for you to do everything

2022-04-03T16:17:27+00:00

And yet they are comfortable failing. Google the orgasm gap.

bangitybangbabang · 2022-04-02T11:27:43+00:00

Of course there are women who are bad in bed just like there are men, the important question to ask is why.

In my purely speculative opinion, often women who are bad because they starfish and men who are bad because they can't make a woman cum share an issue. They approach sex as something that the man does unto the woman until he is finished.

If you want women to be like this

takes the iniative sometimes -knows what she likes and tells you exactly how she likes it. I remember my first explaining me where her clit was and how to make her cum. -Shows passion towards you

You have to encourage female sexuality, open talks about desire and respond well to correction. A lot of women are shamed for having passion and experience (lest they be labelled a slut) so they take the "lie back and think of england" approach.

But also understand that not everyone wants to teach you the basic tenants of pleasure. Specific needs are good but the location of the clit is level 1. I don't expect a man to know how I like my clit being touched but good god I need him to know where it is.

YerFetherWudBePrewd · 2022-04-03T14:14:22+00:00

In ~~bed~~ life, all the pressure to ''perform'' is on the man.

Fixed it for you.

LotBuilder · 2022-04-03T00:01:53+00:00

I somewhat disagree. A experienced man can take the lead and still have a decent time with an inexperienced or sexually awkward woman but a starfish usually knows they are not good in bed. They give weak BJ’s and they know they are letting the guy down.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2022-04-02T13:36:04+00:00

Pillow Princes think all the performance pressure is on them because they are fine with passive pillow princesses and not telling women how they want it and like it.

I've never been with an active man that is good in bed that likes passive women or just has sex with a woman just laying there. He sounds terrible in bed just like her. Ya'll just pretend it doesn't suck and hold in tears or something? Better yet, what woman wants to be passive when the chemistry is mutually on fire? Maybe it is just me, but everything wakes up when he's good and I'm attracted to him. Brain turns off and I lose awareness of surroundings and don't care about much else. It's impossible to be inactive unless he's hitting that leg-twitching spot. One guy made me suffer hearing loss/deafness during and post-orgasm because of how strong it was and sensory overload.

SirTruffleberry · 2022-04-02T14:24:00+00:00

I think a lot of women treat sex as a chore and just figure you should feel honored that they stripped for you.

PlayfulLawyer · 2022-04-02T17:56:30+00:00

I disagree when you say all but most of it is yes, there's still some things a woman has to have down technique-wise, like for example I've been with a couple girls who were just trash at giving head or did a shit job at riding while they were on top, etc., I would also say that the terminology of the "starfish" does a great job of calling out girls who are wack in the sack

gordonwestcoast · 2022-04-02T18:36:35+00:00

There's nothing worse than a cold fish, but yeah, if the guy can't pop a boner, it's not going anywhere.

Patrickstarho · 2022-04-03T01:42:42+00:00

If a women gives me the two hand stroke whilst cupping my balls as she lays on her stomach with her feet kicked up, I might marry her

darkredpintobeans · 2022-04-02T12:21:46+00:00

Sex is an act of self expression, people who are bad at sex are people who are bad at communicating.

_DarkLorde · 2022-04-02T11:18:14+00:00

Question. Granted yeah most of the expectations on sexual performance are on men.

But if your definition of good in bed is essentially “active” Would you say pillow princesses & subs are immediately bad in bed because they don’t take the initiative? Cuz these are sexual preferences & relationship dynamics.

pearllovespink · 2022-04-02T11:19:50+00:00

I feel pressure to perform well as a woman too so I disagree. But I totally get your point. Men do most of the work.

2022-04-02T11:59:20+00:00

Largely yes.

loke2dabrain · 2022-04-02T10:25:22+00:00

While the majority of the Bourdain of performance still lies on the shoulders of men alot of Guys are expecting a performance out of their chicks now adays too.

Most common theory is that porn is the reason more young guys are expecting more out of their gf's in the bedroom. Whether that's true or not I think it's a good thing that women have to share the Bourdain performance with men.

trettles · 2022-04-02T10:08:03+00:00

It's a bit rich to ask this when so many of you complain about high n-count women. Experience builds confidence. If you're going to complain about passivity, stop trying to fuck purity ball princesses.

FlamingCoochies · 2022-04-02T14:50:11+00:00

Somehow, whenever a woman says she wont orgasm its the mans fault and when he vant get it up its because he watches too much porn or something.

I hate this double standard. When a man can't orgasm he's a "porn addict" with death grip syndrome and a desensitized penis but when a woman can only cum through vibratos no one says she masturbates too much.

senghylde · 2022-04-02T14:19:44+00:00

Women really need to take responsibility of their orgasms. To quote Jim Jefferies "you didn't make me cum, I made me cum".

HazyMemory7 · 2022-04-02T10:33:35+00:00

If you are with a starfish maybe, find better girls lol

Guitar-Master9891 · 2022-04-02T22:10:04+00:00

I've been with lots of women, some good, some lame, some absolutely mind blowing, some others ridiculously bad.

I should preface by saying there is absolutely no correlation between looks, amount of past sexual partners, personality and how good a woman is in bed. The best sex I've ever had is my now fiancee, and when we met she was an average looking, introvert girl who only had had two long term boyfriends before me, she wasn't that good in the bigining and had never had an orgasm (not kidding). One of the worst sex ever I can remember, OTOH, was the most promiscuous girl I met, she claimed to be over 20 sexual partners. Also I can recall a very hot feminist who was into submission-borderline rapey sex and calling me "Mr. Patriarchy" (after sex she used to feel bad and said I was mysoginistic, mind you) a pool dancer who only did missionary and thought blowjobs were an act of submission on her part towards me, and an actual hot high paid escort who got off on kissing their clients after blowing me... She was the most virgin looking girl I've ever met, BTW, had the whole colection of Lord of the Rings books and movies and had a tatt of some biblical verse or something like that (I will call her "Woke Galadriel" for the sake of modern adaptations).

There is NO WAY to know how good a woman is in bed until you are actually in the bed with her, pretty much like there is no other way to know if the girl blew a dude a few minutes ago than kissing her.

Now, considering that sexual performance is somewhat quite subjective, all things being equal, I prefer a girl who's submissive and with no restraints, that just lays there and enjoy the moment (and me) than a woman who thinks she knows what she's doing but moves like a freak and fakes all the time.

When the later happens I just usually pine their ass up, lay my hand on her back in a "stay there bitch" way and that's it, they often feel unconfourtable at the begining but they learn soon that's what they really like.

The slutty one thou, OMG what an insuferable woman. "Not that way", "slower", "let me do it", "I know better", "now like this, lay back I'll show you something"... And the fake moans... Oh crap... AND THE CRAMPS. No, hell no that's a no go.

Girl, I'm sluttier than you, I know what I'm doing. Chill the fuck out and curv that ass!!!

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2022-04-03T16:22:04+00:00

I think the pressure on men comes from the fact that, for women, bad sex is worse than no sex. whereas, for men, bad sex is still better than a wank.

for this reason a man's skills are under more scrutiny.

also women tell their friends if you do a bad job.

Consistent_Wear_1224 · 2022-04-03T17:38:58+00:00

A woman who's good in bed isn't only concentrating on her own pleasure and making the clit the most important thing lol

You sound passive in bed and like you want to serve women. Maybe that's why you only vibe with selfish, bitchy women?

Conscious-Novel-8011 · 2022-04-03T17:49:55+00:00

I agree as a female and I make sure that doesn’t happen. Men need to feel wanted also.

ConfidentPain1834 · 2022-04-12T09:01:48+00:00

Put more pressure on her. Tell her it's lame if she just waits for you to do everything. Tell her sex is better if she actually knows what she likes and is able to tell/show you. Tell her you're not going to stay with some chick who says she likes sex but acts like she isn't even interested. Seriously, tell her she's shit in bed, and more importantly, tell her how to fix it. Alright, I guess you could leave out the part where you tell her she's shit in bed if you wanna be nice

Personally, I don't believe how "attracted" she is to you plays any large part in this. And if it does, then you gotta wonder why the hell this girl is having sex with a guy that she.. doesn't want to have sex with? Hopefully there aren't too many women that are that stupid. I don't think it's that, I think she's just being lazy and/or doesn't know any better. Either way though, you should just tell her

Robotemist · 2022-04-02T17:34:40+00:00

The only time women feel pressure to perform is if the man is extremely high value. Then in that case, it's not so much performance as it is submission to the man's sexual desires and fetishes.

That's why you see stories of women who when they were chasing Chads they were giving head in public bathrooms and doing anal, then when they marry the beta don't even let him get it doggy.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-04-02T18:20:26+00:00

Sir have you ever sucked a dick?

Sabrepill · 2022-04-03T01:58:45+00:00

Toxic Women tend to blame men (hamster: meaning rationalize nonsense) for almost everything. If a man loses his erection for whatever reason, maybe he’s nervous, maybe he’s too used to porn, maybe her vagina stinks like rotten fish, he will be the one blamed for the bad sex.

Feminine women have a comforting, loving nature. When the man loses his erection, they will let him know they don’t care and make out with him and simply enjoy his presence and intimacy. This comforting feminine energy is then absorbed by the man, awakening his masculine energy. Once the pressure to perform is lifted away: the same man who couldn’t get it up originally or from time to time, becomes an absolute stud in bed that satisfies her every desire.

Avoid toxic women like the plague, they create their own toxic situations and blame men

Feminine women use their feminine energy to awaken mens masculine energy, through their comforting and loving nature

BeautifulTomatillo · 2022-04-02T10:12:42+00:00

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CocoBabeNYC · 2022-04-02T13:56:46+00:00

The reality is takes men only a half dozen acts done at half a dozen different speeds to get them off. Let's not pretend men are super complicated. That being said, if you feel forced to have bad sex because "wimmins fault", then you need to reevaluate your priorities in life. Demand more from life and your partners and yourself. If you are unhappy with your sex life, find more enthusiastic and experienced partners.

In my day we used to call that "taking responsibility".

poppy_blu · 2022-04-02T14:04:49+00:00

I thought men already did talk about women who suck in bed.

Was going to agree with you but it’s actually not really the same.

Even if a woman sucks in bed you still get off. Which is why men don’t really care, they’ll bang either way.

If a man sucks in bed, we don’t get off.

antariusz · 2022-04-02T15:48:56+00:00

I'm trying not to sound insulting when I say this, but what you wrote sounds pretty "beta".

When I read what you wrote I immediately thought, "This guy wants the woman to take over and tell him exactly what to do."

If I were to challenge your views, it would only be to try to change your view that the majority of women do not want nor desire that responsibility and they don't find it sexy or fun. But you're helping confirm their suspicions that you aren't really an alpha man. They would prefer to be lead in bed.

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-04-02T16:38:12+00:00

I think women are definitely judged as “bad in bed” if they don’t perform in a certain way, especially with the expectations from porn nowadays. For example, blowjobs are pretty much expected as part of foreplay while a man going down on a woman is more “optional.” Women are also expected to moan and make noise whether they’re really feeling like it or not, or the guy will think she’s not enjoying herself or that she’s boring.

Now, due to anatomy and psychological differences, women are harder to get off. This means that yes, men have to work harder to please a female partner than vice versa. This can create more pressure to “perform,” I’m sure. But then as a result of men’s insecurities and porn-fueled expectations of what a woman looks and sounds like when enjoying sex, that creates pressure on the woman to “perform” as well. All of this is quite ridiculous when you think about it, as it makes sex into some kind of off-Broadway production it was never meant to be. Sometimes, both people are pretty much just faking pleasure to give the other pleasure... yeah. Imho most people’s sex lives could benefit from more genuine connection and communication and less porn, but it’s hard to change ingrained behaviors and expectations.

slavicslothe · 2022-04-02T12:42:46+00:00

Bro have you never tried cowgirl and just layed there? That shit is exercise for her.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-04-02T19:38:19+00:00

Even though, at some level, a female burden of performance does exist for the best types of sex, including female vaginal tightness, fit, lubrication and overall female sexual skill, it isn't needed for good sex.
And I've heard it suggested that given women's more responsive sexuality, need to feel desirable to be aroused, and general sensitivity to negative emotions, if society were more open about putting an explicit sexual burden of performance on women, this would just kill female libido.

A lot of women would just prefer to pull up their panties, cross their legs, and take their toys home with them than engage in sex where they had this kind of burden on them. Just how they are built. If this is true, then maybe hiding the female burden is adaptive, and actually serves men well despite how unfair it might seem.

Rather have unfair sex than no sex at all. In the end, got laid, right?

2022-04-02T22:02:54+00:00

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Illustrious_Wish_383 · 2022-04-03T03:45:16+00:00

Women say they don't orgasm from PIV and then shit on men with ED...

ColorMePoorly · 2022-04-02T12:33:55+00:00

First I agree that there is a pressure on men to perform ie get and keep erections. But there is also pressure in women to perform. It's not the same kind of pressure, it's more about sometimes feeling the need to put on a show, to moan like a porn star, to make it look like porn, etc. I'm not saying that it's a majority, I don't know, but I know this pressure exists and can kill all the fun for women too. So, both sexes experience pressures.

Also, there are women who are bad at sex of course, but there are also men who are bad at sex. It's not a gender thing. If a woman is bad at sex, try to talk to her.

New_Relative_8709 · 2022-04-02T13:46:02+00:00

It just comes out of the fact woman are harder to please, a girl can be horrible in bed, but if she is not hurting you without your consent (biting for exp), you can probably ignore it and enjoy it either way. But if a guy is bad in bed, the girl most likely won’t take any enjoyment, but the worst part I believe is that guys often chose to never do something to please a woman, I know guys that think that going down on a woman is “”emasculating””

Willow-girl · 2022-04-02T11:59:33+00:00

In bed, all the pressure to "perform" is in the man.

Yes, because women never get on top or give head or put on a little show for their men. Oh, wait ...

(

2022-04-03T13:17:12+00:00

I've never had a woman who wasn't acting a Tasmanian devil in the bedroom. Like it's a knock down drag out fight in that mfer. Do some take a second to warm up to get into that? Yeah and I know the reason why. Most of us dudes are coming with a few neck kisses, and then roll into boring ass missionary, in the push up position that goes into maybe doggy or her on top. Very little foreplay, maybe 5 -10 mins of actual insertion, and then he blows. A lot of men don't know how to aim their dicks to hit other areas, they just stick it straight in and pump away at the cent of the hole like a retarded ass meth'd out chimp. The longevity sucks too. And dudes expect her to be blown away. Listen, I'm hard on women for a lot of shit, but I can see where they're coming from on this. You're serving up some luke warm greasy spoon diner food and expecting them to act like they're at Nobu. She's going to just lay their because you're just msturbating into her, at best, you're having "intercourse" by scientific definition.

She's had that from every dude. She's expecting to get just that and not cum. I got exes that hate the shit out of me but will tell people that even though I'm not shit, at least the sex was good. These same women, even though I can't stand their asses, I will say that they were wild as shit when that door closed. Which some of their new bfs or husband's have said different, so I know the dick they're slangin. I've hung out with dudes who have dated the same women as me and we've had different experiences.

So is it on us to perform? In the beginning of the first time during sex because we have to show her that it's not about to be some regular Joe boring dick. But by the end of it, she's about to commit a felony to destroy your dick. After that she's coming back on her own to get her back blown out. You don't have to ask or intiate shit. She wants to get her nut and she'll start acting like us.

The bad blow jobs? Because dudes have been telling her that her shit is good when it's been trash. If I even hear "I've been told I give great blow jobs" I know it's about to be garbage and now I have to train the bad habits mofos instilled in her, out of her, or I'm going to be stuck here all day, bored.

afkawayrn · 2022-04-02T12:17:49+00:00

What’s sad is women these days sleep around to have “more experience” and then they still just starfish with every guy lol.

Like thanks babe, I really wanna wife you now cause of all that experience. Still can’t deep throat a dick tho 😂🥴

Hjelmert · 2022-04-02T14:23:23+00:00

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Aye_solo_tripper · 2022-04-02T16:17:49+00:00

once a woman is in bed, she obeys what I tell her. full stop. Idk what op is on about.

BlockedAgainIGuess · 2022-04-02T13:58:20+00:00

If you have sex with a woman who is bad in bed, and she wants to have sex with you again (and you have no better prospects), are you going to turn her down?

kartu3 · 2022-04-02T19:04:56+00:00

I think the universal "everything is men's fault" take is ubiquitous and indeed IT DEPENDS. Sometimes it is our fault, sometimes not.

Sometimes it's... nobody's fault, some pairs just don't spark it.

Also note that there is a sizable group of asexual women.

Also note that it seems that practical aspect of female orgasm is - adultery.

Like bang-bang with partner, at around ovulation time, see someone with better genes? Bang-bang and ORGASM (boosting chances to get pregnant from that other guy)

Bad for the dude, good for species as a whole.

2022-04-02T20:29:03+00:00

I think I'm lousy in bed and I'm a woman. I know my bf loves me but it's not because of how good I am in bed because I think I suck at it and I would never praise myself for being good at it either... I mean, great if you are but my life goal is not to be good in bed

Pola_Lita · 2022-04-02T11:52:43+00:00

What are your thoughts on this, should we make it more commonplace to talk about how some women are just shit in bed?

It depends on what you want to accomplish and who you're referring to when you say "we".

If you believe that you, personally, would enjoy more trash-talking about women I'd say you'd probably get better mileage on another sub or separate forum where criticizing women is a specific goal.

My own estimation is PPD has more than enough posts designed and members eager to denigrate and exaggerate and generally complain about women as it is.

We don't need more opportunities to say "Some women are just shit in bed."

ohdiddly · 2022-04-02T16:46:27+00:00

To be fair, if you’re good in bed you shouldn’t have to be told where the clit is.

But yeah, women are taught to be submissive and let men take the lead, and it just so happens that that’s not very fun for a lot of people.

2022-04-02T10:39:01+00:00

Learn how to ring the bell. Once you do she'll do anything you want.

Sabrepill · 2022-04-02T16:57:02+00:00

We are expected to be completely hairless, smell like roses, keep on natural makeup, and look beautiful and effortless during the whole thing. Women preparing for sex seems to take longer than the actual event. Men can do the work.

2022-04-02T12:04:01+00:00

Oh slut and kink shaming are so real!! When you find a female who is really good and wants to get better I know she’s a slut and owns it - you have actually found a tough woman! Oh and also what makes somebody good for you might not make them good for the next person! Some guys really want to be the one to teach a girl or break her whatever you wanna call it so they like no experience a lot of guys can’t actually handle a woman who Is good in your terms! I don’t know man same to naturally want to put me in my place because I fucking really love sex on a huge slut and men don’t really like that!

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sarkington · 2022-04-02T15:26:18+00:00

Nope

Just do what I say and everyone’s happy

I don’t know who you’re fucking, but you might want to reconsider

JohnDoe_Rip · 2022-04-02T15:26:39+00:00

And women won’t tell the guy they’re sleeping with what they like or what they want him to do differently. They just expect him to get it. Women here even say they “won’t teach a grown man what to do”.

featheredsnake · 2022-04-02T16:12:31+00:00

The other side of the coin is pretty good isn't? The guy is "expected" to take lead... And women like that. You get to move her in different positions and do many things and whatnot. Always saw it as a win/win privilege because the girls like it.

Additional-Storm-943 · 2022-04-02T17:03:25+00:00

Yeah

Reasonable_Voice_997 · 2022-04-02T17:26:44+00:00

It’s the both of them responsible to please each other in the bedroom. If sex is bad it’s because know one knows how to please each other. Communications is very important in a relationship. Sex can improve only if the two of them talk before hand and learn together as a Couple beautiful working together as one.

ShoCkEpic · 2022-04-02T17:28:59+00:00

i don’t think there so much bad sex for men as there is bad sex for women…

it seems not that easy for girls to actually enjoy sex

but guys? if you are excited by the girl is always more or less very nice

macheagle · 2022-04-02T17:35:37+00:00

If she is sexually attracted to the man, she will perform to the best of her ability and experience. If she’s performing “duty sex” and more likely than not isn’t attracted to the man, she’ll barely perform if any. The key is attraction.

sisi_2 · 2022-04-02T20:56:03+00:00

Woman here who started SEX therapy this year! I found out I have ADHD and anxiety issues. I'm working on those so I can better be intimate with my partner. So I guess I disagree that only men have the pressure. It's all relative to the relationship. Good communication is great. So is therapy, sex or otherwise!

giddy-girly-banana · 2022-04-03T00:50:49+00:00

It takes two to tango. It’s as simple as that.

2022-05-03T00:32:53+00:00

Because women give head more often.

If I give you head and all you do is fuck me, yeah, you better perform.

Title	In bed, all the pressure to "perform" is in the man.
Author	Standard-Inflation10
Upvotes	231
Comments	368
Date	April 2, 2022 9:34 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/tuezvs/in_bed_all_the_pressure_to_perform_is_in_the_man/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/in-bed-all-the-pressure-to-perform-is-in-the-man.1108978 https://theredarchive.com/post/1108978

Comments

Also note that it seems that practical aspect of female orgasm is - adultery.