Men are shallow as well

Emyncalenadan · 2025-10-19T01:58:43+00:00

I have never, not once, in the real world heard someone say that men aren’t shallow. Not once. “Men are shallow” is the “Ohtani is a good baseball player” of relationship takes. Of course, you can find contrarians on the internet, but you can find people that believe anything on the World Wide Web. The reason people try to argue that women are shallow is that it’s actually something (most) women deny.

DatingAdviceGiver101 · 2025-10-19T01:08:30+00:00

Small outliers aside, everyone wants to be physically attracted to their romantic/sexual partner.

It sucks if you were born on the short end of the stick from a conventional attractiveness PoV, but it is what it is.

PassengerCultural421 · 2025-10-19T01:23:23+00:00

1: There is nothing wrong with women being shallow or having preferences. We just hate the bs gaslighting some women do. Where they say they don't about men's looks, only their personality. Others have pointed this out in the thread.

2: Men don't hide the fact that they are shallow. This has never even been a thing in history. What is a man even going to say."I'm attracted to Sally, because she has a beautiful soul?".

N_Count_Council · 2025-10-19T00:57:04+00:00

Men admit it though, women are the ones trying to pretend they aren't shallow

TKD1989 · 2025-10-19T01:31:38+00:00

Sure, many are, but many women pretend that they are not shallow and heap praise on men who are conventionally attractive while shaming men who are less genetically blessed. Sure, beauty is the eye of the beholder, but women need to be more self-aware about these ironies in life. How many women are willing to give less attractive guys a chance versus men who give unattractive women a chance?

leefjk · 2025-10-19T02:44:45+00:00

I think men and women are equally shallow. Men are underrated for how they will actually make compromises in looks sometimes, and women are overrated in how often they do.

VersionEins · 2025-10-19T02:14:48+00:00

Who are you even talking about? So many men have low standards and will take the first woman that doesn't reject them.

habbo311 · 2025-10-19T05:32:38+00:00

As a middle aged man I don't see anything wrong with your analysis but I will add one minor detail.

Many guys never find the girl they are willing to commit to without any hesitation. It's extremely rare and happens maybe once or twice in life for most.

How do I know this? I met my forever person and it changed me overnight. I was never able to envision myself doing all the traditional male role duties and responsibilities until I met her.

It's like being struck by a bolt of lightning

AdHistorical3313 · 2025-10-19T01:01:26+00:00

Both are shallow, sure...But you've gotta admit: men are much easier to please, and will ultimately be economical and realistic about their preferences and decisions compared with most women. This isn't even really a controversial talking point; in most of biology it's the female that's the selector, and the selector is the 'choosy' sex. There's a reason most divorces are done by women, even though, let's be real, the same kinds of problems that will trigger that sort of decision in a woman would not lead to divorces in men.

A good way to compare the shallowness of the sexes is like this: men = 'I can't forgive a failure to reach at least a minimum looks standard, but other than that, I'm easy'; women = 'I also can't forgive a failure to reach a minimum looks standard, but I can be persuaded that a man with height, money, fame, power, etc, is better looking than he actually is'. Men will never consider a 2 a secret 10 because of her amazing personality in the same way a woman might consider a 2 a secret 10 because he is a 6'4 trillionaire. Women can be persuaded that a man is better than he is, whereas a man can be persuaded to not be so damn fussy~, basically.

Puzzleheaded_Card_71 · 2025-10-19T01:50:41+00:00

That’s never been debated. Of course men want attractive women. After looks and femininity, male standards are far less demanding.

Women are as shallow as men when it comes to looks and far more shallow when it comes to money and status.

Given two equal women, id take the office secretary over a lawyer or doctor (and i am a successful lawyer) for several reasons.

How many women would do that?

Academic-Ball-9606 · 2025-10-19T11:59:22+00:00

The most lovel a lot of men will only get is from their mom, if that

aleknovy · 2025-10-19T23:48:20+00:00

For the 5644645 billionth time: nobody has an issue with women being shallow.

People have an issue with all the gaslighting surrounding it.

Sweet_Discount4485 · 2025-10-19T01:46:36+00:00

I don't think anyone disputes that.

Men are just more honest about our overall shittiness. and also, relatedly, are made out to be the bad guy in every relationship conflict.

I think wind would be taken out of the manosphere if more women were just upfront about their personal shittyness in their own life.

It would be really helpful for men to see that women's criticisms about men being shitty don't amount to low key dehumanization of our entire gender.

If you are shitty too, at least we're not alone in it.

IamWisdom · 2025-10-19T02:13:54+00:00

Women are def different than men. Im super handsome and im having trouble getting women to commit. They get bored super easily. And their expectations for how the men they date should behave and charm them are based on movies and are unrealistic.

4444-uuuu · 2025-10-19T02:14:00+00:00

guys are just as shallow too.

no they aren't

A man’s attraction to women is binary based on beauty. It’s either hot or not, there’s no in between

but men's beauty standards aren't as shallow as women's. The most important thing men care about for a woman's looks is not being fat. Obesity is a choice, so it's not anymore shallow than rejecting somebody for being a smoker. As long as a woman isn't choosing to be fat, most men will find her attractive enough. Compare that to how much women judge men based on genetic factors outside his control like height, facial structure, etc

RealityCold4693 · 2025-10-19T02:30:28+00:00

Man admit it and most of the time men still willing to settle

iamatwork24 · 2025-10-19T01:50:34+00:00

To say most men know if they’ll marry a woman very early is just insane and not based in reality. And I had no desire in finding a Disney princess. I wanted a partner in everything who I was attracted to inside and out. But of course looks matter, that’s a big part of attraction, especially at first

ohisama · 2025-10-19T01:55:24+00:00

Why do you want a prince charming that too with options if beauty is subjective?

Why should he compromise if you don't want to?

What is the endgame for most women? Commit to every man they date?

ODOTMETA · 2025-10-19T08:46:00+00:00

What was the purpose of this post? You feeling a way about something in life 🤔 Most of us (including me sometimes) are openly shallow, I'm a man. 🤣🤣🤣Tf you talking about, bro? What dimension are you from?

SecondEldenLord · 2025-10-19T12:13:40+00:00

They are, until they cannot afford to be shallow anymore. Chads can afford to be shallow cause they are attractive, average men cannot. Ever heard of the phrase: women have sex with who they want, men have sex with who they can? Well, this applies.

Apprehensive_Pea7182 · 2025-10-19T12:39:23+00:00

Disney Princess to spoil????. I have a very good looking wife. I did not need to spoil her to keep her around. We both work and shared since dating to marriage. We have everything we want today just from making the right moves with eachother. Having a women or wife that wants to sit around all day and get paid from her man to do nothing makes them very unattractive. Men and Women want a combination of things . Thats ultimatley whats going to make you click in the end with eachother.

GrassStatusTouched · 2025-10-19T18:08:28+00:00

Nah i didnt date for 7 years after my ex died because the dating scene felt too shallow and predatory for me. I then met my (now ex) wife and while yes, it did matter to me that she was physically attractive to me the real reason i married her was probably due to my own loneliness and unrealistic idealism and not anything to do with her.

Im at a stage in life now where i built up a friend circle of honorable ambitious fun loving men, mended relationships w my family, found a fulfilling well paying career and hobbies and spend time working on myself every single day to find accomplishment outside of women. I fixed the insecurity inside me that caused me to settle for someone my upper brain knew wasnt a worthy candidate.

Nowadays I would never, ever settle for a woman i didnt see a future with. I dont treat women as disposable because that would sinking down to the level of shitty people, and karma’s a bitch, but besides that my spirit and self respect is more important than getting my dick wet. The more dirt you do in life the more you secretly hate yourself and thats what causes you to attract the worst segment of people.

The men you’re describing are men of low character. Don’t project them onto all men. That’s where the root of all evil is in these gender wars discussions. Im choosing not to succumb to bitterness and project my ex wife’s narcissistic awful behavior onto all women. Women of good character exist and I want to find one of those and not waste my or anyone else’s time.

Bassist57 · 2025-10-20T00:26:58+00:00

My issue with shallowness is that men judge women on things they can control (facial attractiveness, breast size, weight) while women judge men on things they can’t control (facial attractiveness, height, penis size).

MoreCheesePlease8675 · 2025-10-19T00:58:35+00:00

He doesn't know if he will marry her but he does know if he considers her to at least be fuckable in that split second. Even the ugliest most vile woman can still fall into the "well she's at least fuckable" category. This is because men have a much higher category for who they consider to be fuckable than women do.

This is because for many men sex with an ugly woman is better than not getting anything at all. When you are starving even moldy bread starts looking good after a while.

According-Tea-3014 · 2025-10-19T01:17:20+00:00

Attractive men are shallow, sure.

SoldierExcelsior · 2025-10-19T04:55:02+00:00

What does Dicaprio have to do with this he doesn't want to marry or have children he just wants to enjoy the company of young attractive women.

I'm Inna similiar situation I don't want marriage or kids so I preffer the company of younger women that dont want that . It's not being shallow it's just practical older women often want marriage and children..or allready have kids but I don't want to deal with kids and baby dadys.

I dont want to deal with fat unhealthy women but also I wouldn't date some body bipolar either..this isn't shallow it's self preservation.

Lastly as the Godfather Kevin Samuels would say RIP Men need a level of attraction for intimacy.

I have tried fat women old women, women with stretch marks and saggy breaks worn out 40 year old single moms ...I'm not even a drinker but thete where few I couldn't perform with out several drinks and I did it out if pity so as to not hurt their feelings ..It's not shallow if we physically can't perform.

I got catfish once the girl was so ugly. I was gonna take one for the team but...Something I've learned is if a woman isn't attractive the brain doesn't register her as a woman or something to be desired sexually. That's not our fault..Just like many women claim to be physically repulsed by short men.

stockingsinrainboots · 2025-10-19T09:22:45+00:00

The amount of men who will tell you that they're in love with you, before they know your middle name, what kind of music you listen to or wether you're an only child, simply because they find you physically attractive.

Many are driven by lust, not love.

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Pro-IDGAF · 2025-10-19T03:14:00+00:00

this tracks. sorry i cant debate you.

BigMadLad · 2025-10-19T03:44:37+00:00

Sure, but definitions of beauty are pretty wide ranging to the point where on mass is not really shallow.

Melodic_Structure928 · 2025-10-19T04:19:47+00:00

While you could easily debate raw numbers and statistics on what it takes to be seen as an attractive person to the opposite sex, and then use that as evidence to prove that women are on average much more shallow then men. I won’t go that far and just point out is how it isn’t usually men who claim that personality is the only trait that matters because where “the good sex” who that only sees one’s heart or whatever other lies and hypocritical nonsense.

BobtheArcher2018 · 2025-10-19T05:59:42+00:00

While there may be a binary aspect to attraction, ultimately it is still on a continuum, like most things. And yes, men are shallow crazy monkeys just like women.

The real point is that every society has to evolve some sort of mating system that keeps the society competitive in the eternal Darwinian contest. This is the perspective that matters. All mating systems impinge on individual freedoms in some way or another. Humans, left to their own devices, will not mate in a way conducive to forming and sustaining even primitive communities.

In 2025, the technological environment is different than anything humans have seen before. While history still provides insight, this is also undiscovered country. That said, there isn't much evidence that any of this means humanity has transcended its need to manage its mating and breeding.

Prismatic_Symphony · 2025-10-19T06:16:07+00:00

If you bring biology into this, I don't think the word "shallow" can apply. After all, what makes a woman beautiful? Generally, her fertility. It's not shallow for a man - or his instincts, really - to be concerned with fertility. Reproduction is one of our major purposes, isn't it? If a man specifically is interested in old and/or ugly women, he'd literally be acting against what makes biological sense. That'd be pretty dumb, and a biological dead end. The "Wall" is rooted in biology first. Beauty is simply a natural tool we use to measure biology.

Also, it's not a dichotomy There's hot, there's not, but there are levels in between. Most people are somewhere in between. The world isn't just 10s and 0s. It's mostly 3s-7s with a smattering of 2s and 8s, and a scant few on either extreme.

Santaflin · 2025-10-19T06:39:09+00:00

It's not about beauty, it is about reproduction.

After 40, it gets unlikelier very fast to birth a healthy child.

Therefore, while men men might have to lower their standards to get sex, women will need to lower their standards before 40 as well in case they want to have a child (an assuming they haven't found someone until 35. Which, judging by the number of "red flags" that are touted in reddit, gets more and more likely).

So while men have the confort of having more time to get their shit together relationship-wise, women have the comfort of having an easier time until 40. At least if their goal is to reproduce.

Regarding sex... That gets a lot less important when you are 40 or older.

Artistic_Speech_1965 · 2025-10-19T08:02:43+00:00

Yeah, human beings are also shallow. But what I understand from the red pilled redditors here is the intention of telling "women are shallow too" which is true by itself, but they keep bringing twisted stories that do not reflect reality

iSellNuds4RedditGold · 2025-10-19T08:28:45+00:00

Yes, we are.

Mysterious_Run_4031 · 2025-10-19T11:30:07+00:00

All romantic love is shallow. The only true love is platonic and devotional love. If your partner was physically hideous I guarantee you wouldn't have even considered dating or marriage to them (unless you were planning to use them for money or something).

Teflon08191 · 2025-10-19T15:35:08+00:00

If a woman is overtly interested in him, he might just go along with it for the free sex and never have any intention of anything serious.

This makes for the perfect cover story for the women who never want to put themselves out there and risk rejection by expressing overt interest, so...you're welcome?

For almost all men, the ideal endgame is finding their version of a Disney princess they want to spoil and commit to.

That's the spoiled Disney princess's ideal endgame, not men's.

Flintblood · 2025-10-19T17:55:52+00:00

Of course a lot of men are shallow but by and large most men are honest about it. That’s the differences that many men here see and talk about. The most central and often repeated theme here from men is that women want to say one thing but then act differently in their life choices when it comes to men or at least when they think they want to “settle down” and get married. It seems a lot of women want to preserve feelings so they will say what they think they should say about the qualities of the ideal partner.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2025-10-19T19:30:04+00:00

Conventional wisdom is that men are purely shallow and don’t care about anything deep or meaningful.

Conventional wisdom is that women are not shallow and only care about things that are deep and meaningful.

This is why we have to convince men that women are also shallow and tell them to looks max. Conventional wisdom on women is shifting somewhat over the last decade so men are more aware, but it’s hard to shake this idea.

One thing that has never been questioned in any time, place, or culture is that men are shallow. It hardly needs arguing because nobody has ever disagreed.

musicissoulfood · 2025-10-20T13:40:20+00:00

It's less shallow to want someone for their beauty than for their money. Because beauty is still an integral and inseparable part of a person, while money is a separate thing and not part of a person.

If you desire someone for their beauty, you are still desiring them. if you desire someone for their money, you are just desiring their bank account.

Men love women for their beauty. Women desire men for what they can provide, which in this capitalist world is mostly money. Men are therefore less shallow than women.

DGenerationMC · 2025-10-20T16:41:38+00:00

Yes, I am like that one Adele song.

84JPG · 2025-10-20T19:06:58+00:00

Being attracted to beautiful people isn’t shallow, whether it’s men or women doing it.

BetterThanYouEasily · 2025-10-27T17:03:49+00:00

What you just described is the most obvious thing on Earth: Attractive men use lesser attractive women for sex

We all know that, it's not some secret. If you're a woman and this is news to you then you're just playing Pikachu face for LARP reasons.

The real mystery is why you don't choose someone more on your level if this reality is so bad. Maybe it's because you'd rather be part of a team than own a lesser one yourself.

Men on your level are waiting for you - where are you?

3ONEthree · 2025-10-30T03:33:03+00:00

The redpillers are circumventing around what they really want and can’t really express their frustration directly. They want to sleep with a hot women but they can’t cause they’re not conventionally attractive nor up in par with them in that department. They’re frustrated by the fact that they won’t have the chance to or have them genuinely desire them like they would desire Chad.

Mutual maximum attraction is important and not shallow.

Gloomy-Bad-5014 · 2025-10-19T02:33:27+00:00

You have made a solid argument here. I do believe men are still less superficial though, because a woman's beauty is only what will attract that man to her, it is not what will make him stay. Where as with the woman, her loyalty is based on his financial situation, and the man maintaining his competence.

So it still looks more shallow on the woman's end

krackedy · 2025-10-19T00:56:38+00:00

I don't think anyone disagrees.

Whiskeymyers75 · 2025-10-19T01:52:53+00:00

Sorry but I’m not looking for a Disney Princess. Your post fails.

fatalcharm · 2025-10-19T02:23:26+00:00

I remember the time I had an eating disorder and went from looking like a model, to looking genuinely ugly. I not only was extremely think but I had severe vitamin c deficiency. All the men, family, friends, strangers etc. who had usually been nice to me, open doors for me etc. we’re suddenly disgusted by my presence, would insult me for no reason -just being in the same room as them. I never said a thing. Just existing enraged them. My eyes were opened as to how shallow men can be. It turns out that men actually get angry when they see an unattractive woman, as opposed to just ignoring her, and this was my experience. The men in my life, even the “nice” ones, could not stand to look at me and got really nasty about it.

Guess what? I haven’t totally recovered from my eating disorder, but I am a healthy weight now. Looking good again and those same bastards who were nasty to me during the peak of my eating disorder are super friendly but I know their true colours. All men are shallow.

EarNearby5005 · 2025-10-19T05:02:33+00:00

Yes. There isn't a single person in this world who isn't superficial and doesn't have a problem with that. The only thing that really irritates me is some women trying to appear morally superior, saying that appearance doesn't matter or that personality matters more.

EarNearby5005 · 2025-10-19T05:07:57+00:00

Yes. There isn't a single person in this world who isn't superficial, and that's okay. The only thing that really irritates me is some women trying to appear morally superior, saying that looks don't matter or that personality matters more.

chocobolamo · 2025-10-19T06:30:13+00:00

Yes, but the relative difference matters. Also how the shallowness presents itself across the bell curve of attractiveness percentiles matters too.

You are trying to say because women are shallow men are too so it doesn't matter. However like incels bring up when bring up how women care about looks more than men do its because it some ways they do, and its very severely negatively impacts men. This is objective, measured. We have the proof! Plenty of app data, speed dating studies, and a tremendous amount of social science work studying mating behaviors, and a plethora of knowledge over human history. For instance from the ancient greeks, or other thinkers like C Yung.

Men show interest linearly across the attractiveness percentile band. Except for the top few percent of women. They get a lot of messages.

This means that all women get messaged, except the most ugly few percentile. Women across the board can make easy linear progress by improving their attractiveness. This imo is why women focus on their appearance more than men do. They learn this is valuable without having to get past a threshhold.

For men - they receive statistically zero interest from women until they are in the top 20% percentile looks wise, objectively. This is measured. Realistically, its the top 10 percentile. We measured who talks to who. You can't hide from it.

For some reason our society cannot fathom it works like this - but it do. If you are in a lower percentile male category and ya got a girl, be careful lol. Chad may just swoop in LOL

Muscletov · 2025-10-19T12:13:39+00:00

Men aren't the ones arguing otherwise, it's women and women only who depict themselves as the supremely deep, profound and noble gender who constantly play down the attractiveness of male traits deemed shallow or immoral.

Title	Men are shallow as well
Author	cs_throwawayyy
Upvotes	46
Comments	195
Date	October 19, 2025 12:54 AM UTC (9 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1oached/men_are_shallow_as_well/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-are-shallow-as-well.1564462 https://theredarchive.com/post/1564462

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