RooshV slams the Red Pill

fastball21 · 2015-05-22T15:47:42+00:00

This sub isn't just competition, it's free competition. No ads, no click bait, a far greater pool of writers passing along their experiences. When there's money involved, a monopoly is the end goal.

Rollo-Tomassi · 2015-05-22T16:51:02+00:00

I have a lot of respect for Roosh. He's been one of the founding pillars of the Red Pill, so it pains me to think he's beginning to follow the same script as Tucker Max.

He can't sell international lay guides forever, he's got to reinvent himself to remain marketable and sadly that will probably mean selling out TRP to do so. He'll make a ton of money by being the manosphere whipping boy in the MSM, collect the check, and go the way of D'Angelo.

What else is he going to do? Go back to biochemistry in Washington DC?

ggolemg2 · 2015-05-22T15:50:12+00:00

People [him] fear losing control and fanbase as it translates into losing power and possible income. It's not complicated.

bsutansalt · 2015-05-22T16:43:18+00:00

He most certainly sees as competition. Anyone remember his failed attempt at making a rival sub? TRP is here to stay. Wehter it's on reddit or another host remains to be seen, but we, as a cultural movement, are here to stay. Men are waking up to the truth that things aren't what they were promised as kids and nothing is going to change that.

through_a_ways · 2015-05-22T17:49:53+00:00

Why must TRP and the ideas here be considered a movement? To me this place is where men come to open their eyes to reality. Why must we label ourselves as "neomasculine" or worship idols like Roosh wants himself to be. Just be a fucking man, no need to act cultish about it.

redpillshadow · 2015-05-22T16:49:49+00:00

It is a pathetic attempt to get marketing and ideological control of what he calls neomasculinity.

He also went hard after MGTOW cutting them down to video playing neckbeards who have given up on life. Which makes no sense given the 5 levels of MGTOW ranging from just saying no to marriage to checking out of society completely. His problem with that. He can't understand half of them or sell them anything.

He wants control. He states so himself "council of elders to guide the ideology". That is what he wants to be. A beloved leader who everyone looks up to for guidance. Not one voice among many. Sadly he thinks shaming others is the way to go to set himself apart from the plebs.

What he realized is that both MGTOW and redpill lead to the destruction of society (if nothing changes) and he isn't comfortable with that. Thus he clings to traditionalism which he redubs as neomasculinity. And that ideology doesn't work if the rest of the men don't also walk that path. Which is the main difference to redpill and MGTOW, both work without telling others what to do, they focus solely on yourself. The value they hold for society is not even secondary, it isn't even a factor. One can make arguments that both redpill and MGTOW will lead to a better society by forcing women to change - one can also make arguments that they will lead to a sharp decline and breakdown of society. That uncertainty is something traditionalists cannot handle.

Roosh is in a place where just banging girls isn't enough anymore, he now wants that unicorn and he needs an ideology which does promise him an unicorn if he just does everything right. A frame which he can control. Even if that frame doesn't match reality.

red_gerb · 2015-05-22T19:06:11+00:00

The red pill is a non-commercial version of PUA

Wow, TRP is open sourced PUA!?

Open sourced Bro-ware!

rpscrote · 2015-05-22T16:24:52+00:00

This paragraph located at the end of the article is all you need to read:

You're Invited To My 2015 World Tour

Join other likeminded men in your city and attend my 2015 world tour. Starting in late June, I will be visiting Berlin, London, Washington DC, New York City, Montreal, and Toronto. Each city will have a 4-hour event that includes a speech by me, a Q&A, and also a meet & greet.

For full details on what's in the speech, the dates, and how to reserve your seat, visit Roosh World Tour.

Whisper · 2015-05-22T18:22:46+00:00

Because it has no council of elders to guide the ideology, it is now being steered by the mob and watered down—or outright trolled—by entryists who are blue pill.

Oh, we're here, all right. Vanguard ECs and mods.

We think, however, that we are a laboratory, not an ideology. Sure, we could narrow the discourse, throw out anything that doesn't match our particular game plan, but why would we? Unlike Roosh, we are not selling anything. I have a job. And if I decide to collect my thoughts into a blogosphere column somewhere, someday, it won't be my primary source of income, just a bitcoin donation link and some google adwords stuff. I don't want to ever mix the content with selling anything, and don't think any of the other founders do either.

There is a choice every person has to make when he acquires a large audience by having a message. He can use that audience to make a profit, at the risk of changing the message to serve that end. Or he can refrain from doing so, at the risk of surrendering the increased power, options, and opportunities for a still-larger audience that such a profit might provide.

I don't know if Roosh just wants to lead because he wants to promote his brand and make more money, or if he wants to lead simply because he wishes to control the direction of the swarm. But leaders do not ask for permission to lead. They do not ask to be appointed leaders.

They simply lead, and become prominent because they inspire others to follow.

Councils of elders aren't powerful because they can force mobs of young men to do their bidding. They can't. They are powerful because the young men respect their wisdom and experience, and voluntarily listen. If you want to be an elder, no structure is required. All you have to do is inspire the respect of the younger men.

If Roosh wants to do that, he's going to have to step up his game. Because the word "neomasculinity" is a pretty good brand name. I'm sure it's going to have an awesome logo that will look good on a t-shirt, available for only $29.95 exclusively from RooshV^TM Neomasculinity^TM Enterprises, LLC. But I sure haven't heard anything about what this neomasculinity is actually going to do for young men who aren't Roosh. So far what I've seen is all brand and no message.

Sure, you can say that the Red Pill lacks direction. But having direction isn't inherently good. What's good is having a good direction. So pick your direction, Roosh. Start marching in it and see who follows. Don't sit around trying to talk young men into following you no matter what direction you go in. Show them what you have.

tits_out_forTheBoys · 2015-05-22T17:06:16+00:00

They hold firmly and obsessively onto rigid dogmas such as the alpha/beta male dichotomy to explain all male behavior while basing their “truths” upon a shaky foundation of pop evolution.

He's trying to put The Red Pill in a box, and in doing so he's making himself look like a fool to the entire unplugged portion of the manosphere.

Seems like this is his attempt to capture the demand of all the men who are still plugged in, knowing full well that they'd typically make their way over to this sub, see its value, and stick around for a while before even browsing a couple of articles at ROK.

Through an economic lens, Roosh is attempting to steal some demand from The Red Pill by trying to lower its perceived value. Not by increasing the value of his own site, but by trying to convince men that the value of The Red Pill is less than what they were led to believe.

This is how women "compete" with each other. Gossip and finger pointing.

red_gerb · 2015-05-22T17:12:49+00:00

Is anyone surprised? Money talks. If TRP paid him to praise TRP he would.

I see this as a message. "I've helped you create something, and now I'm cashing in on it"

If you look at it without emotion, like you would as a stranger looking in, this is what you see.

Hennez · 2015-05-22T18:12:38+00:00

He's correct to an extent, but this is just the natural evolution of such things. Before RP we had the fledgling PUA movement, which had its notable "elder council" of Mystery, Style, Tyler, etc.

But then it got flooded, every recovering beta and his woman were talking about c shaped smiles, and places like sosuave started to become a thing of the past. Enter the red pill.

This built on the prior movement and guys like Roissy, Roosh and Rollo became the faces of this movement and have been for quite some time. Expansion was inevitable. Now there are countless manosphere blogs and it has branched off into MGTOW, PUA purists, and the red pill means vastly different things to different people. The founders are losing their grip. Heartiste's posts and comment section resembles /pol/ from 4chan and Roosh's pet RoK us just click bait for new RP'ers stuck in the anger phase.

He's right that a change is on the horizon, but it can't be forced. Something greater will evolve out of RP, but it will likely be mostly new faces leading the charge. But trying to rebrand the existing information then rehash it to profit is not the way it will happen

redpillshadow · 2015-05-22T17:02:18+00:00

RooshV is monetizing TRP. So in order to make people pay for his "better" advice he has to piss on the competition.

GurneyHalleck85 · 2015-05-22T17:43:44+00:00

It's simple. Roosh V is a wannabe guru. A lot of people find guruism appealing. Discussion on his forum is tightly controlled and any opposing viewpoints are instantly banned as "trolling." The forum has some good discussion but a lot of it is also cringe-inducing suckup fest of "Roosh is awesome!" etc etc.

Roosh V is fast becoming a clown who's main goal is benefiting from the anger of men.

Also Roosh realized a year or so back that producing click-bait trollish articles was more profitable than simply telling the truth, so in a way Roosh is willing to sell out the image of the entire Red Pill/MRA movement just to get attention and $$$$$.

RPthrowaway123 · 2015-05-22T16:31:45+00:00

His point about things getting watered down is valid, but I'm surprised that he would choose to strike at TRP. He helped create this after all, and his articles and books are pretty well thought of around here.

It could be a money issue, or it could be frustration with the sub's "watering down". I think we have a pretty good foundation of "elders" like Rollo, IllimitableMen, and the mods who do a great job around here.

stolidfact · 2015-05-22T17:01:19+00:00

Oh look, the classic game of putting another down to elevate oneself up instead of constantly delivering value that people see and doing your thing in a DGAF manner. "I am a confirmed alpha and I spin 1000 plates".

Please.

busyalterego · 2015-05-22T22:12:21+00:00

Guy writes an article about how Jews are bad people who fuck everyone over.

Then tries to fuck everyone over.

How "Jewish" of him!

furpwt · 2015-05-22T17:21:51+00:00

After Roosh acted like a little bitch on Dr. Oz's show, who in their right mind gives a single fuck about what that pussy has to say?

He couldn't hold frame when it was of utmost importance to hold frame.

[deleted] · 2015-05-22T17:57:16+00:00

"No council of elders to guide the ideology," that is exactly what makes it great. You take what you want, make of it what you want, and come to your own opinions and plans. Having a leader makes it sound all 'culty'.

colucci · 2015-05-22T16:46:38+00:00

I'll grant him that TRP takes the beta/alpha dichotomy far too rigifly.

BowlOfCandy · 2015-05-22T19:14:12+00:00

Roosh is also throwing MGTOW under the bus too. Sandman's retort is that neomasculinity is gynocentric.

IllimitableMan · 2015-05-22T18:58:32+00:00

He was always a beta PUA who, once he got some pussy, decided to try monetize every tip anyone in the community ever shared. All he ever actually did is talking shit other people usually don't talk about with his insecure voice / fake body language, while not trying to hide behind a keyboard.

I have 0 respect for him as a man, especially now that he's trying to sell TRP theories under his own brand. Admins here should ban the keyword in this forum or auto-link it to a page which explains how "neomasculinity" is just an attempt of monetizing TRP. And optimize that page to do better on Google than Roosh's shit.

And yes, as /u/BurgundyCarpet pointed out, it's not even worth talking about it. This is just another Machiavellian move we all fell for. I wonder how many visits his websites / videos will get from this post alone.

_whistler · 2015-05-22T18:57:25+00:00

Based on the quoted section, he's not wrong. We aren't an organized movement. We are steered by the mob to some extent. And this subreddit is ever-increasingly watered down by people who wander in, read a few sidebar articles, and start commenting without internalizing any of it.

Don't get me wrong, there are many, many valuable posts and comments here every day. And I'm not a diehard RooshV fan, I don't agree with everything he says. But when I remember this sub a year ago, and I look at this sub today, I understand his remarks. As The Red Pill draws more members, it's inevitable that there will be change.

[deleted] · 2015-05-22T19:54:28+00:00

I'm going to guess this is his main objection:

non-commercial version

MentORPHEUS · 2015-05-22T20:42:52+00:00

Return of Kings strikes me as Cosmo for late teen boys.

Short, shallow articles, clickbait galore, popunder ad; its too much of an embarassment to share with those I'd like to introduce to the Manosphere.

[deleted] · 2015-05-23T05:48:10+00:00

Never heard of him, don't care.

prodigy2throw · 2015-05-22T17:00:04+00:00

I'm kinda glad he's being distanced from TRP. He has some good insight but he seems a bit Ann Coulter in his marketing strategy

FoolishWiseGuy · 2015-05-22T17:30:50+00:00

Roosh playing that Machiavellian marketing strategy to a T

APookIsAPook · 2015-05-22T18:52:08+00:00

TRP is not a movement or a single ideology, it's just a discussion forum. As far as I'm concerned, the more people discrediting TRP the better. If TRP was mainstream, RP knowledge would no longer be advantageous.

I have a feeling that Roosh is just remarketing himself after being destroyed on the Dr Oz show. He realizes he needs to tone himself down in order to appeal to a wider viewership. Similar to Mark Manson.

flexiblehold · 2015-05-22T23:51:30+00:00

TRP is the most democratic sub on reddit, the mods aren't apt to ban you just because you're anger phasing. It's left to us to decide how this sub evolves, and that's what makes it interesting. TRP is at its best as a collection of experiences that can be analyzed by different men in different phases of their development. A "council" would whitewash the beneficial chaos inherent in such a democratic space.

gokurakumaru · 2015-05-23T02:06:15+00:00

History shows societies guided by councils of elders are far less introspective and progressive than societies that encourage open debate and freedom of thought. It's up to the community to test the veracity of the claims that are made, not some self-proclaimed old-boys' club.

LetMeSideBarThatForU · 2015-05-23T04:03:40+00:00

I have actually recommended Bang and Day Bang, and I can't say I'm too enthusiastic about his current crusade because it undermines what came before. What happened to the guy that used activation energy to explain the need for continual self improvement and outright said you should fuck virgins because every man that didn't was failing a shit test.

I feel like Roosh from 7 years ago would have absolutely shit on this neomasculinity nonsense. That he would be the last one painting a picture of disparate ideologies with a single color.

But clearly this isn't the same Roosh.

Once a man has gotten his fill of casual sex, and is looking for deeper meaning in his relationships or satisfaction with life, the red pill has few answers besides running “dread game” on your wife, maintaining “good style” to attract young females when older, or the ever vague “work on yourself.”

Deeper meaning in relationships and satisfaction with life. Red Pill is a transitory phase that can't provide you with the needed framework to learn. Except it was exactly the same incubator in which Roosh himself came up in and helped to build. Ask GayLubeOil or Roosh (7 years ago) who you should take advice from, people that are where you want to be or people that talk a lot.

Neomasculinity will aim to fill in these gaps by serving men regardless of their age or involvement in the game.

Roosh is not an old man, he's not a married man as far as I know, he's not a father (as far as he knows) and he's definitely not beyond needing the manosphere or the red pill. His naked ambition from years ago hasn't vanished, it's just become misdirected from buying into his own hype. Roosh can't stop moving forward but he's not willing to ignore the hard lessons he's learned and spread far and wide. The women, family, and friends he wants to help you develop a deep and meaningful connection with are exactly what he's spent years telling you to ignore if they try and hold you back. He acts as though "work on yourself" wasn't his bread and butter when he's the walking manifestation of investing ONLY in himself.

I've enjoyed his writing, but this isn't the same guy that responded on his forums and posts to guys with less game. That guy was a pro bono PUA, a fucking bro. That guy would have read

the red pill has few answers besides running “dread game” on your wife, maintaining “good style” to attract young females when older, or the ever vague “work on yourself.”

And said "What the fuck else can you do?" Roosh seems to be ignoring what even those that came before him knew, there are no Magic Bullets. That's the whole point behind the Red Pill analogy, and all the bitterness in the "transitory" phase. The game never stops.

Anyone claiming otherwise is trying to sell you something.

Cyralea · 2015-05-22T18:59:52+00:00

I'll preface this by saying that I respect Roosh and his contributions to the manosphere. He's a guy that gets social dynamics, and I won't begrudge him that.

That said, he's demonstrated time and time again that he's just not the sharpest guy around. He's regularly made decisions to his own detriment that should have been readily apparent to anyone with a knack for introspection. What he's doing now is transparent, yet incredibly shortsighted. He's going to find out the hard way that alienating his userbase isn't going to get him far if he wants to succeed.

The guy really does seem to lack tact. Shame, really.

electroavenue · Fri May 22 17:39:17 2015 UTC

Roosh knows how this place operates. The reason he slammed it is because we'll make a post or two talking about it, which will create traffic for him (and therefore money).

HettGutt · 2015-05-23T00:12:30+00:00

You cannot trust a man to tell you the truth.

You can always trust a man to act in his perceived self-interest.

How do you get a man to tell you the truth? Make it be in his self-interest to do so.

cover20 · 2015-05-23T01:15:32+00:00

Especially correct on the watering down and bluepill subversion -- despite the efforts of the mods who seem just fine, but probably overwhelmed by the attacks.

Tarnsman4Life · 2015-05-23T02:01:39+00:00

"No No; don't join the Catholic Church, Join the Protestant Church!". I smell a Schism. The man makes good points but it seems on the surface he simply wants to bring everyone here under "his" brand which without a doubt is to his financial benefit.

NeoreactionSafe · 2015-05-22T18:49:02+00:00

Red Pill (for the most part) is about Enjoy the Decline.

In most cases this is Fertility Negative.

Roosh has been in Eastern Europe and has picked up post-Marxist thoughts and since they were successful in throwing off such degenerate ideologies and are starting over he wants to see us have such good fortune.

So Roosh has moved on to Enjoy the Collapse and is basically ready to live a post-Feminist life.

He's by now probably more of a Reactionary.

I mean everyone understands that Enjoy the Decline means you are giving up on your tribe and it's abilty to survive... but have become too numb to care. Right?

(not that there's anything wrong with that)

GayLubeOil · 2015-05-23T03:02:32+00:00

The problem with trying to monopolize post feminist masculinity is that that the market is far too broad. The men who read TRP and Return of kings are very diverse.

I know because I skyped with about fourty on Thursday. I talked with young men old men, confident and shy, Spaniards and Australians.

Honestly no man's writing is going to be liked by everyone. Younger men like my ultra agressive hyper-masculine style. /u/illimitableman has a different kind of product and so does Wisper and Rollo and thats great.

We all bring different things to the Red Pill buffet and its that diversity that makes it great.

Also Roosh doesn't even lift. #justsaying

topredhat · 2015-05-22T17:23:04+00:00

Sound like someone desperate for money.

redpillshadow · 2015-05-22T17:28:52+00:00

In a very predictable move he now talks about trp in his safe space rooshvforum.com/thread-47693.html (link broken so automod doesn't delete the post) instead of talking to us.

The thread is about 1 hour old. Pathetic.

BluepillProfessor · 2015-05-22T19:39:13+00:00

This is disappointing.

Recall the Marxists radicals and the feminists won and took over the society because they maintained unity and a singular goal. Faced with that resolve, every man for himself isn't going to cut it beyond a fringe movement.

[deleted] · 2015-05-22T20:12:28+00:00

Going through this thread and then the mimicked thread on RooshVForum its obviously apparently the difference. RVF is a complete circlejerk. TRP is rational thoughts with zero gain.

I enjoy both communities, but as someone else mentioned her the "Roosh is great" echo chamber gets old fast and cringey often. It also takes away from the content on RVF.

thebluepillsucked · 2015-05-22T21:00:22+00:00

Very first time I ever watched a video of Roosh on youtube, I thought he was gay... I turned off the video when he said the word "fornication"

slcjosh · 2015-05-22T23:17:53+00:00

Who gives a shit. Move on with your lives.

ijustkantlocke · 2015-05-23T00:27:22+00:00

I think he nailed it. I utilize some basic advice from this sub but have to ignore the massive amounts of hateful ignorance as well.

thepillwastaken · 2015-05-23T02:05:58+00:00

I don't know about you guys but when I read stuff like Heartiste, I think - this is good. This is very good. It is not grandiose, "look at me" writing. It is just great concepts laid out in a very well written way.

When I see articles by guys like Roosh I cringe because I know he can't deliver in person. It's just too over the top.

[deleted] · 2015-05-23T02:21:33+00:00

he criticises the use of binary labelling of behaviour as blue pill red pill yet uses it himself i never followed Roosh before but DAYUM DUDE what are you thinkin. maybe his bashing on TV has killed his T levels

watersign · 2015-05-23T02:24:21+00:00

yes ..any forum with open discussion can be manipulated. it's up to observers to take it for what they will. id be wagering to bet many who read this sub are not trying to be alphas, but are genuinely curious.

plentyoffishes · 2015-05-23T02:54:42+00:00

Agree with Roosh about the ridiculousness of holding obsessively to the alpha/beta dichotomy.

toothbrush_your_anus · 2015-05-23T07:48:36+00:00

i read that book of pook thing, its got some good points but holy fuck his writing is irritating with that trying to sound like the bible shit.

introduced the terms alpha male and beta male

lol no scientists talking about the social dynamics of wolf packs and animals did that jackass

as for the rest of it who cares, let him be butthurt

my_redpill_account · 2015-05-23T08:48:42+00:00

He can say whatever he wants but to the core, TRP promotes self confidence, respect for yourself and others, and self improvement.

Regardless of the topics spoken amongst this sub, the main points are there. The real thing you're working on is you.

revengeofthecrazy · 2015-05-23T12:10:16+00:00

Tyler stole from Mystery. Even the term "social dynamics" first appeared in Mystery's book. Tyler's company is entirely based on stuff he didn't invent. But he took it to levels that Mystery couldn't have. Many men profited from that, there's no denying it.

Zuckerberg stole the idea of a social website, but his version was a million times better than the original and he took it to a level the inventors never would have.

Don't be envious beta bitches but because Roosh's methods may appear unjust. He's seeing an opportunity, why wouldn't he take it? If he didn't, wouldn't he be a fake?

There is no putting a lid on this information. We'll have to get enlightened and stop believing in the fiction of property over ideas at some point anyway. We should appreciate this for the good it's going to do for future men and women. Just play your part and enjoy.

NickCiufi · 2015-05-22T16:21:41+00:00

it is now being steered by the mob and watered down—or outright trolled—by entryists who are blue pill.

Completely agree. However, maybe the solution is more mods and not a "council of elders".

Skank_of_America · 2015-05-22T16:58:32+00:00

Well, one thing that I haven't liked in this forum for a while is the evolutionary take on everything. Here's why: everyone and their dog can make up some bullshit based on their own personal take on 'how things were, back in the bush'. It's complete fucking nonsense most of the time and annoying as fuck.

Roosh's website has become a giant circle-jerk though, whining to his loyal fans that lap it all up like the sycophants they are.

Ties5o · 2015-05-22T19:53:55+00:00

TRP does not need Roosh. He continually says very inflammatory stuff, and is not a good spokesman for TRP in my opinion.

trpdownunder · 2015-05-23T01:34:05+00:00

His concerns about a "council of elders aside", I think he does have some valid points. This sub, ever since membership has blown up has become an endless cycle of "AWALT" and short emotionally cathartic red-pill porn where the man lifts, changes his attitude and wins. I understand a lot of the newbies are going through the angerphase right now but we really need to start enforcing a minimum quality requirement on posts. I'd rather we have just one or two posts a day which discuss real, pertinent issues and help us all improve ourselves. I'd point to the newbie question thread as a good start because I for one was able to get some seriously experienced older people talking about potential careers. Stuff like that gives us tangible benefits in our daily life instead of being yet another emotional headline, like the redpill excuse for clickbait. Potential topics might be pick-up advice, lifting resources, career talk, posts about different sports, meditation etc. I'd rather see this place remain a place where I can come to better myself than see it inundated with poor quality posts.

Thu Jan 1 0:00:00 1970 UTC

[permanently deleted]

[deleted] · 2015-05-22T19:47:05+00:00

I thought our "elders" were the mods and the guys with "Vanguard" and similar flairs.

drallcom3 · 2015-05-22T20:11:52+00:00

non-commercial version of PUA

and RooshV is the commercial version.

[deleted] · 2015-05-22T20:13:37+00:00

I like to follow all things anti-feminist, so I subscribe this sub. And he has a point. This place has become a forum for armchair-alphas, trying their hardest to define axioms using their own anecdotes (and to show how alpha you are, you have to use abrasive language and a lot of bold text). trp could use some resistance, as in serious critics, to further evolve. Instead all we see here is lashing out, no inward reflection at all...

Dr_HoaxArthurWilmoth · 2015-05-22T21:38:27+00:00

Is this where we vote for the Council of Eldors?

"The Elders came from an earlier period in Eternian history and were members of King Grayskull court who ruled his kingdom from Castle Grayskull. They were present in the era when their King fought against the evil Snake Men and later the Evil Horde."

[deleted] · 2015-05-22T23:37:23+00:00

Well I mean he's not wrong

someguysomewhere321 · 2015-05-23T07:12:15+00:00

I've always seen Roosh as more of a "get laid abroad" guy who finds western girls unbearable and lives in a low end apartment in a low end country. (each to his own, but I think it's not an aspiration for most of TRP)

He either doesn't understand TRP very well or has only skimmed the sub on days with lots of shit posts.

HerrV · 2015-05-23T08:35:52+00:00

Why you heff to be mad though? I've been Rooshing and TRPing for a while now and the way I see it, you should use both sources of info to better yourself

[deleted] · 2015-05-23T09:00:25+00:00

I can understand the whole mob point he is making, since inevitably our signal to noise ratio has dwindled considerably in the past year and some but that imo is to be expected with the vast member growth we have seen.

[deleted] · 2015-05-23T12:23:28+00:00

As soon as I read this, all I could think of was spicoli during the interview commenting about the other surfers, "those guys are fags". Roosh is trying to be AMOG, ain't gonna happen buddy.

RedPillMagazine · 2015-05-23T17:06:05+00:00

Folks on Sosuave.net were talking about that stuff back in 1998-2004. Anti-Dump, Pook, and others were talking about all the same things. Many of the "ideas" Roosh espouses are lifted from them. Even alot of the terminology. He's not the "father" of anything. Just part of it. He doesn't even give credit where credit is due.

True, but then Red Pill is rooted in PUA stuff like David D'Angelo's "Deep Inner Game", and Mens Rights Activism, neither of which is spoken of much. And the term itself as applied came from a libertarian website via the article "Game is the Red Pill", but Keoni is a bit too conspiratorial it seems to be mentioned much...

Point is, there's lots of history and interweaving behind this stuff. Roosh might not have been aware of MrM! or MenZ magazines either (nor may you be), but both magazines got over a million views per issue, long before this reddit existed, and probably played a part in certain bloggers traffic over that time. The StandyourGround forums were active around SoSauve's heyday, and even then there was cross pollination, so SYG could legitimately also be called part of the genesis.

Actually, when you look at how complex the creation of the Manosphere really was, it's amazing it exists at all, but not surprising that - like the Spanish Inquisition - no one expected it, thus, no one planned that far ahead.

epixs · 2015-05-23T20:54:23+00:00

ROK was great until this past year...now it's just filled with stupid clickbait articles and shit.

Soarinc · 2015-05-24T02:43:53+00:00

I grew up in the south and come from a family of hunters. My father and older brothers and everyone in my neck of the woods has been using alpha male and beta male terminology since before the internet.

The behavior is so common and noticeable in wild animals that it's well known among hunters and easy to see such a "pecking order" in humans too.

C00l_Guy · 2015-05-24T07:51:40+00:00

Jesus Roosh is 100% correct his criticisms of leddit TRP is accurate.

IVIaskerade · 2015-05-24T17:09:17+00:00

Roosh is just Buzzfeed for the manosphere - some comedy gold, mostly shit, too many lists.

Honestly, I'm not even sure that he believes it himself. There's got to be a bit of exaggeration in there.

He's taken far too seriously by both sides.

yummyluckycharms · 2015-05-28T12:07:19+00:00

Anti dump machine's post are legendary - the fact that roosh is insinuating that those ideas are his are baffling. Maybe he's having a mental breakdown?

[deleted] · 2015-06-02T01:20:16+00:00

Never liked him. Always seemed like he was just regurgitating shit from other people for the cash.

TheLoneMaverick · 2015-06-05T22:57:32+00:00

I didn't even know that this was happening until I saw the prison planet video on Roosh's perversion for profit take on TRP. To me yeah the concept has some selling points, but it's bane is it thinks that it can take the culture back from eroding itself when that is twenty years way too late. The fact that he's burning bridges with allies he's known for years in establishing a cult of profitability/personality is more damaging to the the red pill philosophy than any feminist on redit or in the MSM. Remember men that all successful movements if there's no central control have a greater chance of perversion and erosion. Roosh is laughing all the way to the bank while he doesn't realize the damage done here.

Also to say that you single handedly constructed the socio-sexual hierarchy is just fucking absurd.

EtovNowd · 2015-07-28T16:51:46+00:00

Roosh --> Travelling other countries so I can pick up pussy easier, where english is exotic.

Jetsetr · 2015-05-22T17:58:41+00:00

I don't know. Roosh has done more than most men to popularize TRP and PUA concepts. Plenty of men would not have heard about these ideas if it wasn't for his marketing efforts. Yes, he makes a living from selling books. He's trying to develop some branding around "neomasculinity" and probably will have something for sale soon. But how many young men out there are trying to figure out how to do better with chicks and stumble across Roosh that might never have an intro to these ideas from any other source. I can't blame him for trying to make a decent living for himself. Edit: I don't think he will hurt TRP at all, the world's a big place with room for plenty of different versions of the same ideas.

I_HaveAHat · 2015-05-23T00:48:13+00:00

Is anyone going to address the critiques on TRP? TRP seems to be more of a second mra sub, with every AWALT thread. Theres a lot less discussion on anything more than that it seems

confuseacatlmtd · 2015-05-23T19:48:05+00:00

Roosh V is terrible with women ....PUA is a scam and now he's trying to hijack MGTOW/ Red Pill theories.... dont listen to him improve your LMS

LOOKS MONEY STATUS>

[deleted] · 2015-05-22T18:15:15+00:00

Fuck him, I never liked him anyway. His eyes stick out too fucking far.

Iknoghostmagic · 2015-05-22T17:34:06+00:00

He's right to a point the whole Alpha/beta male thing doesn't really exist like it does in other species simply because what can be defined as "alpha" depends entirely on your current culture.

Having self respect and not taking shit from people has nothing to do with being "alpha" that's called being normal.

[deleted] · 2015-05-22T17:46:54+00:00

He does have a valid point though.

One of the upsides of our vast user base is a variety of field reports and ideas from all angles. but much like with multi culturalism in our sweet america, too much is a bad thing.

There has been a meteoric rise in weak men and blue pull bulkshit in this sub lately. The more popular we get the greater this number will rise because of our free for all nature.

Rooshs website, one I still read daily and thoroughly enjoy is controlled by him and those of his choosing. While this creates some echo chambery tunnel syndrome, it also prevents a skewed message.

there are pros and cons to each method

Anderfail · 2015-05-22T22:26:05+00:00

A council of Elders of which Roosh is one? Hahahaha yeah okay, way to be transparent about your motives you goddamn faggot.

MagicGainbow · 2015-05-22T22:35:05+00:00

Considering I gave up on Roosh ages ago as being a burnt out clickbait shill, I can't say i'm too saddened.

REDPILLRECKONING · 2015-05-22T23:12:31+00:00

I'm probably going to wind up saying this a bunch of times in the months to come.

THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND MANY ASSHOLES WILL DESPERATELY TRY TO HARNESS THE GROWING POPULARITY OF THE REDPILL IN THE MONTHS TO COME.

This cunt thinks he's going to neg us, and in turn direct shit tons of traffic to his site. The leeches are coming, they want to control this, they want to harvest it, they want to take advantage of the platform that until now has been allowed to grow as naturally as it possibly can.

I say we blacklist all RooshV content from now on.

Fuck the cunts who want to leapfrog to the head of our community and control it because WE ARE THE ONES WITH THE POWER NOW. WE ARE THE ONES WITH A VOICE NOW.

[deleted] · 2015-05-23T01:40:38+00:00

He's right. TRP is trolled by blue pills who've only just arrived and haven't read the side bar.

Heck, I'm probably one of them so I try to keep my comments and posts to things I have some authority on while I doggedly try to make my way through the sidebar.

Also, from what you've quoted above, I don't think that's a slam. He makes some valid observations and some of it is demonstrable fact. I don't see any actual value judgments there like, "It sucks and you're gay if you go there."

He can say what he wants. So far, he's said a lot of other things that are pretty useful.

j-pHil · 2015-05-23T14:36:07+00:00

Remember fellas to divide and conquer is the art of war. Everbody essentially is trying to do the same things: give men a fighting chance. Not just with women, but in life as well.

[deleted] · 2015-05-23T22:00:02+00:00

Roosh deserves huge credit for reviewing Culture of Critique and exposing the tribe and their machinations.

They have the power to destroy him--not just financially--which tells me that he's not as self-serving as everyone here thinks he is.

That, however, doesn't justify his autistic performance on Oz. Good writer, good marketer, terrible speaker off-the-cuff.

Transmigratory · 2015-05-24T00:11:14+00:00

Sounds like a bit of a tool though one thing stuck out to me "steered by the mob and watered down—or outright trolled—by entryists who are blue pill." On some level, don't we think there's even a modicum of truth in this assertion?

wasthereadogwithyou · 2015-05-31T18:29:45+00:00

To be honest, I typically see more posts about "how to get women to have sex with you," rather than, "how to build strong/healthy relationships." Maybe there are some guys who are happy fucking one million different girls, but as for myself (before I simply gave up on the idea a few years ago) I've always been for the latter, whether or not it's even possible in the age of the spoiled-hypergamous-child. So yes, I agree that, at least as far as reddit is concerned, TRP is inextricably tied up with PUA culture.

TheLoneMaverick · 2015-06-06T01:46:28+00:00

I kind of enjoy Bar Bar's and JTO's perspective on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjJrNkp4dCo

[deleted] · 2015-05-23T10:46:59+00:00

Roosh is a leader.

All other Red Pill giants are writers.

I love Heartiste and his writing is massively entertaining, but I would not follow him because he's not a leader. I love Rollo and thanks to his infallible logic I feel like I actually "understand" women for the first time in my life. But he is not a leader.

Roosh's writing isn't as entertaining as Heartiste. He is not as scientifically profound as Rollo. His cultural critique is peanuts compared to a Mencius Moldbug. But he's the only one willing to put his face on tv. He's the only one willing to build a presence on youtube. He's the only one actually acting like a leader.

All the wonderful theories about game, all the wisdom, all the techniques I learned from others. But Roosh was the only one who actually inspired me to take action. He's a leader and since I believe in the natural necessity of leadership, he's a leader I'd choose to follow.

SIC_redditcruiser · 2015-05-22T22:03:29+00:00

Meh, who cares what someone thinks about us.

johngalt1234 · 2015-05-23T04:40:36+00:00

[permanently deleted]

[deleted] · 2015-05-22T21:02:53+00:00

Because it has no council of elders to guide the ideology, it is now being steered by the mob and watered down—or outright trolled—by entryists who are blue pill.

He's right. Ever notice all the people on here who think getting married is ok?

There's no benefit whatsoever for any male to get married. And yet people on this sub will say "oh, just marry the right girl and you'll be fine." It's a scam.

aakksshhaayy · 2015-05-22T22:32:19+00:00

Partly agree with him, this subreddit has changed dramatically in the last year or so. But this is because new people are trying too hard to stick to every principle word by word when real life is more flexible that that. And there are obviously more and more new people.

l0ng_time_lurker · 2015-05-22T23:00:27+00:00

Yeah, that´s about right. Like - word for word.

invictusprotocol · 2015-05-23T04:19:55+00:00

This subreddit is not competition. It pushes the same ideals as roosh does. You guys are on a medium that is dictated by outside sources that could shut this whole thing down tomorrow. Remember that. Roosh is not an enemy, you're loosing sight of the issues that all of us men stand Against and the things we stand for. Roosh monetizes very few things. He writes books. He translates knowledge and conceptualized this whole thing. He essentially started redpill and the manosphere movement with roissy and rollo. You're attacking a forefather of the movement, when we're all on the same side boys.

[deleted] · 2015-05-23T09:47:11+00:00

Roosh's parables inspired me to write. I wish he'd write more of those.

LerbiTRP · 2015-05-23T16:00:15+00:00

He is right though.

A church has a pastor. An office has a manager. Even slaves needed Spartacus to lead them, they were nothing on their own (man, what a good show). Some type of authority is needed around here, otherwise there is no standard from which we will learn and observe - literally anybody can write an article here and if such an article is liked by the majority, it will become embedded into TRP dogma... "Elders" is a good idea.

-Real_Nword- · 2015-05-22T18:03:04+00:00

it kinda scares me how he might be right with how trp over time could be controlled by blue pillers disguised as rpers

CowardlyPetrov · 2015-05-22T16:45:06+00:00

Eh, I think he is putting his own spin on things for his own reasons, but he's not wrong that newcomers (like my own dumb ass) can be detrimental if addressed wrong.

leredditaccounts · 2015-05-23T01:24:14+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ChristianGraysBoss · Thu Jan 1 0:00:00 1970 UTC

Good for Roosh for making a power play. To all the guys who want to keep TRP pure, give me a fucking break. Nothing is pure; where there is money to be made, someone will pounce. Virtually every endorsed poster is trying or will try to make cash off of this.

Laughing at the betas saying they are ok with so-and-so making $ because they're honest about it!

ChocolateHead · 2015-05-23T23:15:08+00:00

They hold firmly and obsessively onto rigid dogmas such as the alpha/beta male dichotomy to explain all male behavior while basing their “truths” upon a shaky foundation of pop evolution. Because it has no council of elders to guide the ideology, it is now being steered by the mob and watered down—or outright trolled—by entryists who are blue pill.

I kind of agree with this. There is no quality control so any idiot can toss some shit up explaining what it means to be "red pill." And about 75% is utterly retarded horseshit meant to assuage whatever insecurities the author himself is harboring. And like any dogmatic ideology the misguided masses viciously attack anybody who even slightly disagrees with them.

Interestingly, this entire thread is just ad homimen attacks on Roosh as to why he is doing this, but nobody is addressing his actual criticisms. Interesting...

RPmatrix · 2015-05-24T08:54:04+00:00

what about this http://therationalmale.com/2015/05/12/the-dangers-of-the-red-pill/

LMS_THEORY_ · 2015-05-26T01:03:33+00:00

Thanks Roosh for coming out saying what has been evident for while, which is that TRP went from a male/female social dynamic centered philosophy to a PUA one. Now its competitng with PUA commercially when it was never intended for that purpose. Hopefully this moves the TRP back to its roots

johnchapel · 2015-05-22T17:11:16+00:00

No. He's right. You can downvote all you want, but he's right. Redpill posts some interesting articles, but almost every concept here is a terribly translated version of Game, Mystery Method, or RSD.

Sorry boutcha.

Title	RooshV slams the Red Pill
Author	CopperFox3c
Upvotes	256
Comments	374
Date	May 22, 2015 3:40 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/36vyiw/rooshv_slams_the_red_pill/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/rooshv-slams-the-red-pill.32848 https://theredarchive.com/post/32848