[deleted by user]

343_peaches_and_tea · 2022-01-13T16:13:04+00:00

Bi man in the UK.

I see about as many men I find attractive as I do women.

I will add though that I think lots of men don't put on weight as well as women do. I'm in an area of the UK which is generally in shape. When both sexes are in shape, I find things are more even.

Athletic women = Athletic men. Chubby women > chubby men.

IMO.

MalePsychopath · 2022-01-13T16:20:56+00:00

The average man and the average woman are not attractive. They are forgettable. They have neutral looks. That’s what "average" means.

If I walk past an average person, I can’t remember what they looked like after a minute. I just don’t notice them.

Men and women who are so beautiful that they catch my eye are rare. Maybe 10%.

FenaPugi · 2022-01-13T15:43:00+00:00

I do genuinely think most men are/ can be attractive.

We're just not incentivised when growing up to care much about our appearance as we're vehemently told to just stay somewhat clean or do the bare minimum to look halfway decent.

If men were taught about skincare and self-care then I'm sure it would become more like 60/40, so there'd be healthy competition between men at the very least.

I think everyone (women for the most part but also men) is still hung up on men being emasculated for learning about self-care (especially in western countries). It really is an obscure juxtaposition for wanting men to look good but no one incentivises men to take time to learn about it or teach men, and do so without having prejudice of thinking a man will be 'emasculated' for learning about it.

Intrepid_Place5390 · 2022-01-13T15:41:50+00:00

The avg guy in the US, is fat, dresses like a slob, has no confidence and spends most of his free time on watching/following sports or playing video games

The avg woman in the US is fat, bitchy, entitled and spends more money than she has.

So, they both are not attractive. How's that?

Electronic_Leave_477 · 2022-01-13T18:21:01+00:00

As a guy most other men I see are ugly I don't think it's any wonder why girls don't want to date any of them.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-01-13T15:35:02+00:00

I don't believe that the 80/20 rules is strictly true. However, it seems clear that women's attraction to men has a different distribution curve than the other way around.

The exact reasons are likely a complex mix of factors. Dealing strictly with the physical aspect of attraction, Women are naturally more selective and hypergamous due to greater investment in sex. Women have less raw libido, which includes less testosterone. Women also work harder on their appearance. Declining Male testosterone levels may matter. Obesity may suit women better than men. Finally, it is not out of the question that women are in some ways absolutely more attractive than men, with greater selection pressure (historically) on female beauty.

And of course, physical appearance is only one part of attraction. But today's society puts more and more value on it.

And I think I do a pretty good job of being able to see men and women through fairly neutral eyes, even though I am heterosexual. I do think women look better than men, and that is even after compensating for make up as best I can.

daddysgotanew · 2022-01-13T15:57:12+00:00

The average man is as good as the average woman. The problem is that average men are happy with average women, while average women only want top tier men.

I know of plenty of men who dress well, groom well, are 5’9 to 5’11, have good careers, own cars and houses, are educated and well spoken, in good shape; who struggle with women because they don’t have top tier looks. It’s very hard for them and they end up dating down in looks and weight

Zerofication · 2022-01-13T17:27:01+00:00

The average man has no problem dating the average woman, it's the average woman who has a problem dating the average man.

goneaway2thewind · 2022-01-13T16:56:18+00:00

Tbh, not really. It seems so polarized between guys who barely try and complete overdone looksmaxxing guys.

Bandit174 · 2022-01-13T15:27:39+00:00

I'm not attracted to any men but in terms of general looks I don't think the average man is significantly worse looking than the average woman. There might be some discrepancy in looks but not enough to justify the discrepancy in how men rank women and how women rank men.

I think women just have stricter criteria for evaluating men than women.

lulll · 2022-01-13T15:30:47+00:00

i find them about as attractive as the women i see

Matt_Door · 2022-01-13T17:03:38+00:00

80/20 as in “80% of men are having zero sex”? No, I don’t believe that. Is it 20% of guys get 80% of the casual sex, hmm I’d say it’s pretty close, but 20% guy isn’t necessarily chiseled jaw hunter eyes dude, he’s the guy with the drugs and/or is a party-club scene insider (DJ, promoter, etc) and is a complete social animal and dumpster diver, too

That said, there’s a lot of decent to good lucking dudes out there. You say look at the WalMart aisles, what about the gym, or the construction site?

the-4th-survivor · 2022-01-13T21:19:10+00:00

I feel like the 80-20 rule is legit because in my experience the majority of guys aren't attractive. Granted I'm a straight man so that makes me biased but I can usually tell if a guy is objectively attractive or not and most guys I see are pretty average looking. If not 80-20 it's at least 70-30.

Visible-Doughnut-782 · 2022-01-14T00:40:36+00:00

It depends what you mean by attractive?

If 20 percent of men are deemed “attractive” by woman I would say men would likely also deem only 20 percent of woman conventionally attractive. If “attractive” means “good looking” rather than “average looking” than it stands to reason only 20 percent( for both genders) would be deemed as “attractive” by the other. Other wise the rules of “average” don’t work.

The crucial distinction is just because a guy doesn’t find a woman conveniently “attractive” doesn’t mean he doesn’t find her “fuckable”. An average looking woman is still generally more “attractive” than his right hand.

Guys aren’t walking down the street looking at every girl he sees thinking “oh my God she’s so hot”. He is however probably thinking that he’d fuck her given the opportunity.

Woman are just much more selective with who they fuck. It stands to reason that Woman only focus in on the top 20 percent of guys- even if they are nowhere near the top 20 percent of Woman themselves- as there is still a very real possibility those top 20 percent guys will still fuck them.

MarBitt · 2022-01-13T15:30:12+00:00

Yes, I find most men attractive at least in certain situations or some of their characteristics.

I sometimes find charismatic men more attractive than top-looking women, they attract more of my attention, for example in movies and the like, it is easier for me to remember them, their actions affect me more. But it can also be that female roles are often boring and flat.

I'm not complaining about the 80/20 rule, I don't believe in it much.

wingsandeyes · 2022-01-13T15:43:14+00:00

I find the average men by definition average or average looking. They are neither ugly or attractive, just average.

If you were a woman, would you be attracted to most men you came across?

It would depend on a plethora of things. Research shows that personality, income and status all play a significant role in male attractiveness when viewed by women. It would also depend on how large the pool for available mates may be, if I lived in a town to 2000 I might find an average joe to be pretty damn good but f I resided in a metropolis and received dozens, of OLD or IG DM's daily I might find them particularly lowly.

Do you also find the "average" man attractive? (In the US, this is a guy who's 5'9 and almost obese according to BMI)

No but I believe that they should be a fine match for he "average" woman, who would be 5'4 and have a BMI almost identical to her male counterpart.

nick1812216 · 2022-01-13T17:42:08+00:00

I don’t know, but I know I’m unattractive. I guess I just accept the 80/20. I don’t resent women for it. I’d do the same. I also wouldn’t want to date me! I work on myself, live healthy, have a good career, work out, try to dress nice, etc…

It’s going to be a lonely life, but at least it’ll be a comfortable one

（´＿｀）

dres_sler · 2022-01-13T17:58:31+00:00

All I can say is that I’ve been shocked on numerous occasions hearing women say that a random guy I pointed out was “ugly” to them.

My friend also called super man a 5. A FIVE. SUPERMAN.

HENRY CAVILL.

AreOut · 2022-01-13T18:00:22+00:00

since I am not competent to rate male attractiveness I just pay attention to where girls are looking

it's certainly much less than 20%, maybe even only 2% of men are viscerally desired by girls

vGiber · 2022-01-13T18:04:10+00:00

It’s no longer 80/20, it’s 95/5

PMmeareasontolive · 2022-01-13T21:05:24+00:00

The average man is as attractive as the average woman. I tend not to rate people in real life but I've done some comparisons using pictures in school yearbooks, and they both grade out the same.

gmoney92_ · 2022-01-13T21:12:31+00:00

I guess I don't apply because I don't believe in this bullshit rule. I think most humans have the ability to be attractive as long as they invest time in their health and appearance. Most men who bitch about 80/20 don't understand that most women look like wombats in the morning and they literally spend 2 hours getting their shit together before letting the sunlight grace their skin. Most men role out of bed and spend 30 minutes or less pulling themselves together before getting their day started. If men put in an equal amount of energy they would be competitively attractive. The fact that they don't might indicate that men are actually generally more attractive than women.

Tek_Analyst · 2022-01-13T22:48:29+00:00

I used to live in a very sex filled city. I always felt like there was a lot of competition due to it, but never a feeling of they were more attractive.

After moving for work reasons, there’s like zero competition. Of course I’m in a LTR, so it doesn’t matter as much. But from my POV, the answer is no. Most men seem unattractive, and very much uncaring about their appearance.

RRBeachFG2 · 2022-01-13T23:28:17+00:00

No they aren’t, but most women aren’t either

Sadboiurbex · 2022-01-14T00:21:06+00:00

Straight ish guy from UK, I can look at a lad and go he's a good looking dude without actually been attracted to them if that makes sense

Capable_Dark · 2022-01-14T02:44:45+00:00

Absolutely. the average man has never looked better

simppymcsimp · 2022-01-14T11:35:01+00:00

No to both genders

lolomotif12 · 2022-01-14T11:36:58+00:00

I'm a heterosexual man, attractive men do not often hit my radar because its not something I'm consciously looking for. However, I can appreciate when a man dresses well, or is groomed, in shape or just good looking but I do not look at them in a sexual way or grade them in a sexual way as I would a woman. It's just "bro" appreciation, if that makes sense.

rivetcitymayor · 2022-01-14T11:47:33+00:00

I wish I could post my pic for y’all to understand that even if you are pretty good looking, great shape, good fashion, it’s still not easy for guys lol

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heyitsjeape · 2022-01-13T15:26:59+00:00

I can’t tell if other men are attractive or not.

wtknight · 2022-01-13T16:00:03+00:00

No. I don’t even find attractive men that attractive, although I can appreciate good muscle definition. I’m not sure what women see in men, but a few of them have been attracted to me anyway so that’s good for me.

-passepar2t- · 2022-01-13T16:04:57+00:00

No, I don't find men attractive.

Shredddz · 2022-01-13T16:14:14+00:00

no, I would say men who I could picture next to attractive women are as rare as the women, I would even say its more rare to see a good looking women but Im ofcourse biased because I cant rank more precisely than objectively good looking physical attributes. Beyond objective traits I compare them to the boyfriends of good looking girls to get a better idea, but in general I would say the distribution is equal, just like logic and genetics would predict.

Square_Inflation_534 · 2022-01-13T16:18:48+00:00

I have no idea I've never looked at most men on the street like that

abaxeron · 2022-01-13T16:22:20+00:00

If I was a single woman and had 100% control over STIs and pregnancy, I'd probably have already fucked every man in my entire company at this point and went for the second round in alphabetical order.

ahandtoyourdarknessx · 2022-01-13T16:34:57+00:00

I find most men attractive enough. I find very few men attractive enough that I’d feel comfortable commenting about. And to be honest I find very few women to be attractive enough to release that dopamine feeling just from looking at them, but at the same time there are many girls who while they aren’t breathtaking, I still find them very pretty and would go out with them.

I’m a straight male, and I have no problem admitting if a guy looks physically attractive because anyone who can’t recognize what is considered attractive is lying to themselves.

I think that is the problem and the most frustrating thing about 80/20 if it’s true. Is that women don’t have the same opinion. It’s either a guy is gorgeous or he is a "hotdog on the ground covered in hair outside of a 7/11"

It’s like a binary for them. Like just because a girl isn’t interested in me doesn’t make me a fricking hotdog on the ground. I’m cute enough to be a consideration at least

NockerJoe · 2022-01-13T17:03:12+00:00

The average woman in the U.S. is like 4 inches shorter but even more likley to be obese in the U.S. so I don't think body fat really weighs into the decsion making process that much.

2022-01-13T18:34:13+00:00

My question for the men here is... Walking down the street, at the park, at Walmart, on dating apps from "the other side"... Looking at all the men, do you find the majority of them attractive? If you were a woman, would you be attracted to most men you came across?

I don't notice them. But if I were to look, I would recognize more attractive men than women do. It would still adhere to 80/20. The majority of men aren't very attractive. And I would be looking solely at his looks. A woman is going to be looking at style as well. And height. For me, height and style won't even enter the picture. I would factor in style and grooming if it was extremely poor. But if I see a dude in cheap, ill-fitting clothes, I can still recognize if he has a good bone structure and/or a good build. But a woman's attraction is largely arbitrary.

We literally just had a woman on PPD telling people that even though she likes fishing, she rejects guys with fish and boats anywhere in their profiles. Specifically, this was called one of her "red flags."

Do you also find the "average" man attractive? (In the US, this is a guy who's 5'9 and almost obese according to BMI)

I don't use BMI as it's a useless metric. For men or women. I've heard plenty of out-of-shape women be like "But my BMI says I'm at a healthy weight!"

NMFlamez · 2022-01-13T19:07:27+00:00

This isnt the right question to prove your point.

AidsVictim · 2022-01-13T19:46:16+00:00

Do you also find the "average" man attractive?

Not really, although I wouldn't say they're ugly either. They're more or less their female looksmatch. It's purely a libido/sex characteristics things that makes women more attractive.

Location and places you go to can play a huge role, because if you go to the gym constantly or clubs/bars that cater to a hotter demographic, your "stats" are likely skewed.

Most women and men in the gym are not especially attractive IME although it's also one of the few places you consistently see 8+ of either sex.

TodTheRod01 · 2022-01-13T20:22:34+00:00

i'm going to put it this way...

the average man is on par with the average woman...

THAT's the issue....the thing is AVERAGE women think they are out of the league of AVERAGE men....and that they deserve above average.

if we're talking average in terms of statistics height and weight....avg men are on par with avg women...now if you said avg in terms of 1-10 looks wise....what i personally consider a 5, MANY people don't hit that...if you're more than like 10-20lbs overweight to me you automatically are below a 5...

I see more ugly in the face women then I do see avg in the face men personally...I think a lot of men could look better by just dressing better thats a major issue in my opinion and its not like every guy has to go out and buy a suit.

I see more guys who are chubby then i do see guys who are flat out obese or jacked....but i see more women who are straight up obese.

I'm purposefully discounting the gym (since I am there a fuckton, and I go to a hardcore gym with athletes not a normal ppl gym)

I find neither the avg 5'4 fat chick meh chicks, nor the 5'9 fat meh dudes attractive....

koolex · 2022-01-13T21:33:24+00:00

I think part of the disconnect is with dieting, makeup, grooming, and stylish clothes I feel like almost all women can be very physically attractive, but a lot of physical male attractiveness comes down to height and facial features, so biology dominates effort. Style is easier for men than women, but developing muscles is way harder than just being skinny.

I feel like being a very attractive man requires biology and a significant amount of perseverance but I feel like being attractive as a woman is totally obtainable for most women. It probably comes down to will power to diet and a desire to look good but its totally obtainable if it was her goal.

It's a blessing that women are also very attracted to masculine traits so that men can make up for our biological limitations, we don't have make up to cover up for being short.

All that being said, I would say that women who are in as good of shape me or better are physically attractive at least 50% of the time. I think you'll see this 80/20 rule as common as you'll see men with a 50/50 rule which shows up in OLD swiping data.

Paleo_Con · 2022-01-13T21:46:23+00:00

People in the comments trying to deboonk a statistic(80/20) with personal experience and subjective opinion to cope, typical reddit cringe.

Traditional_Job2467 · 2022-01-13T22:56:39+00:00

It's more than what you think on just appearance with the 80/20 rule that even anyone who thinks it's about appearance and attractiveness is only scratching the surface

Ray2020K · 2022-01-14T01:28:46+00:00

I am a heterosexual male and have not complained about the 80/20 rule. But do believe their is hypergamy and both genders try to date out of their league.

If you were a woman, would you be attracted to most men you came across?

No I don't think I would be attracted to most men I came across.

However, if all men put the same amount of time, money and attention on their physical appearance as women do then it would be different.

Do you also find the "average" man attractive? (In the US, this is a guy who's 5'9 and almost obese according to BMI)

Funny question. There is research on Online dating where females ideally prefer males with a BMI of 27 which is overweight. And males ideally prefer females with a BMI of 17.

Christian Rudder is a co-founder of OKCupid and published research date about the website in a book titled Dataclysm. When asked about the dating habits for the gay community he responded that "men act like men and women act like women."

Youngrazzy · 2022-01-14T02:44:49+00:00

What makes us attractive as men is not our looks. Its our status most of the men that are seen as attractive would not get the same attention if they did not have status l

NoMarriageNoKids · 2022-01-14T03:29:44+00:00

Straight man here; Male attractiveness to women is a combination of things. Looks, physical stature, fitness, hygiene, attire, financial well doing, the vehicle you drive, charisma, status, etc.

So, I'd say that a charismatic personality goes a long way. It can overcome some obstacles because I find that women are easily charmed. But, don't neglect the basics of fitness, attire, and your ride.

Add an interesting or exciting hobby like music and some sports.

none_theWiser · 2022-01-14T03:40:26+00:00

Beautiful people exist, period.

VelveetaIsBae · 2022-01-14T04:15:32+00:00

We just want a man who brushes his teeth twice a day, flosses daily, and washes his butt crack daily.

Suitable_Gear_6197 · 2022-01-14T05:15:00+00:00

If a man isn't fat? Yes If he's fat and has some type of beard? Yes

sex_is_dirty · 2022-01-14T05:30:17+00:00

I've always thought that there were more attractive men about than attractive woman. Put another way, there are more good looking guys than good looking girls.

Is having a basic sense of aesthetics gay?

ffandyy · 2022-01-14T05:33:10+00:00

No one would say a majority are attractive, but I’d say ark east 30% are, and probably a solid 30% are just normal looking

AloneOnTheStrange · 2022-01-14T05:33:13+00:00

From what I hear and experience from gay men, they find a lot more men attractive than women do.

It's just that men and women see attraction so differently. A woman will disregard the majority of men just from height, income, social status, and preselection. Whereas a man won't even consider those things.

BennyHillThemeStops · 2022-01-14T10:50:32+00:00

Most average men in my area are not unattractive and are not grotesque. I did a tinder experiment years ago to see what the male competition is like.

I saw very few guys who I thought couldn't ever get laid based on their physical looks alone. Their crappy photos as well as their bios made them a lot more unattractive.

AggroWeasel · 2022-01-14T14:00:54+00:00

Men, on the whole, are more attractive than women.

It’s astonishing how much false advertising women use.

There are VERY few women that look good naked with no makeup. VERY few.

randomnightly · 2022-01-15T19:22:57+00:00

I think there is a difference between finding someone attractive personally and rating their looks based on how pretty they look compared to the others. For instance, I can rate feminine looking gay men or 10 year old girls highly, without being the least attracted to them. If I'm looking through that lens, I think that almost all women are prettier than almost all men because their faces are more harmonious and fluid. Testosterone can make male faces more attractive for me personally, but if I'm thinking nonsexually, only aesthetically, then feminine faces are more pleasant to look at. I definitely notice more women and girls or feminine looking guys (not looking like women, sometimes just younger) walking around than adult masculine men. I am never attracted to them though, only admiring their faces aesthetically and their style.

EstablishmentKooky50 · 2022-01-13T16:17:16+00:00

I think, objectively the avarage guy is just as attractive as the avarage girl. The reason for the confusion is that guys are more then willing to date down (more so then women), especially if it's just about sex, and this gives a sense of abundance that makes the avg girls beleive that they are more attractive then the avarage dudes.

If we talk about weight, guys in the US are more likely to be overweight, but women are more likely to be obese or severely obese. In the UK, women are leading the statistics from overweight to severely obese.

Lezonidas · 2022-01-13T16:48:57+00:00

The problem is that non attractive women can easily find a partner while non attractive men cannot (or they have to lower their standards too much)

Also speaking about what I see in the streets, when I was 18, yes, women were way more attractive than men on average, now that Im 34, men look more attractive on average than women. Also their interests and hobbies are worse and more expensive, and they feel more entitled to everything, which makes the experience of spending time with them worse than with men. That's basically why I stopped dating 2 years ago and I have never felt better and more stable. The only con of this sexless and dateless life is that I will not have children, something I'd have loved, but I have one nephew, that'll do.

MR_Shigitoshi · 2022-01-13T16:58:21+00:00

The complaint is women should feel comfortable and satisfied with their looksmatch vs them feeling like they reluctantly settled because they had a bunch of ONS on Tinder with better looking people

AramisNight · 2022-01-14T01:08:22+00:00

I have yet to ever see an attractive man. My only barometer for male attractiveness is how long i can stand to look at them before my last meal tries to come up.

sunkized · 2022-01-14T03:17:04+00:00

As a lesbian I think most men look normal. It blows my mind how picky straight women are

Complete-Temporary-6 · 2022-01-14T08:44:39+00:00

I'm not attracted to men.

ogsimpology · 2022-01-14T09:14:15+00:00

10% are attractive simply physically. Maybe an additional 10-20% could be like "hey, they look presentable", but nothing you'd turn your head to.

Men aren't sexually appealing creatures based on looks alone most of the time. It's character/wealth/fame/ comedic sense/social intelligence/intelligence/charm, that gets them women.

The only reason men are butt hurt over it is because we like average women based of just looks alone aswell, whereas women would need a supplement with an average men to go along with.

SirTruffleberry · 2022-01-14T13:01:42+00:00

The question is circular. When you say I can objectively identify attractive men, you're really just saying I know which men women will find attractive. How does it add anything to the discussion to ask my opinion when it is just my best attempt to copy and paste women's opinions that you've already heard?

And_Rue · 2022-01-13T16:29:04+00:00

No, I don't find the average man attractive.

However, why should that matter to me, as a heterosexual male?

Do I need to find an average man attractive to observe the ridiculousness of a mediocre woman feeling deserving of a partnership with an above average man?

I don't "complain" about 80/20, as it's beneficial to a subset of men, but I do have an issue with the gynocentric, unrealistic, conflicting beliefs that result. It's mathematically impossible for a woman to be both attracted to a small subset of men (when she herself isn't in a small subset of women) and believe in monogamy/committed relationships/marriage. Go support polygamy or buy some cats.

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Upvotes	85
Comments	225
Date	January 13, 2022 3:22 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
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