Q4W: Where does this hostility towards men today really come from?

wtknight · 2023-01-29T03:21:37+00:00

Removed. No non-neutral, excessively leading questions

caobozo · 2023-01-28T23:48:53+00:00

women have always voiced what they really think about men, but back in the past it was usually behind closed doors with other women close to them.

and the bad opinions about men come from bad experiences

anon-sucks · 2023-01-28T23:52:53+00:00

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waffleznstuff30 · 2023-01-29T02:17:53+00:00

The internet. Generational Trauma. Personal experiences.

The internet can be a big space so if a bunch of people have had a negative interaction with a man a person who has also had a negative interaction with a man would vent. And then someone else so it's an echo chamber of people who have had negative experiences.

Generational Trauma. Is a series of negative experiences with men. It's seeing your mom bend over backwards and your dad do nothing. It's feeling that frustration and strain of seeing your mother sacrifice a lot for someone and not seeing that gratitude. Your grandmother do the same but to find out your grandfather had an affair and treated his daughters badly. It's that negative experience passed down daughter to daughter. And the hurt and pain it causes. Seeing dead end marriages and bad behavior makes you want better instead of just the way it is.

Personal experiences. A lot of women have just had bad experiences. And it's not even picking better. You could pick someone good on a paper and they end up just doing something terrible. Like the decent guy who puts in a lot of effort to date the person once they got them just ghosts. Not an alpha Chad just a dude and getting hurt like that sticks with you.

There's the political climate with the overturning of Roe v Wade which a lot of men were radio silent about and some states saying contraception (so birth control pills, devices) are abortifacients which means they can limit access to that. Which means women are less likely to want to have sex. Which will hurt men even more

Snekky3 · 2023-01-29T00:59:21+00:00

I think a lot of it is coming from the internet. In an anonymous environment, we see what men really think of us and it’s scary.

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-01-29T01:25:42+00:00

Men expressing a desire for a wife and children and harmonious home are told that they are oppressive and want to take away women’s freedom

Where have you observed that men merely saying they want to get married have kids and have a happy marriage are told they are oppressive?

I have only seen accusations of oppressive behavior if the man in question wanted to pressure women to date who they don't want or wanted to pressure women to marry and have kids who specifically don't want to.

Men are the least favored in divorce courts and even less in custody cases.

90% of divorce settlements (US) don't have alimony. 70% of people who owe child support never pay a penny of it (regardless of gender) and multiple studies have shown no preference for women in custody agreements when the father put in an equal amount of concern for the child. Women are more likely to be in a worse financial position after a divorce and men are more likely to be in the same financial position or better.

Even now when men try to seek companionship they’re shamed and viewed with suspicion, or even reported to the authorities.

In what ways are these men trying to "seek companionship" that they are reported to the authorities?

EulenWatcher · 2023-01-29T01:47:18+00:00

Several factors:

There are enough men to be wary of and most women have some bad experience with men in their lives starting with childhood sexual harassment and ending with violence.
The Internet and social medias in particular. Now we have a place to discuss these issues and share our experience.
Discussing these issues has become more accepted. Women are less shamed for being victims and they get more support these days. Combining it with the previous point, it means we’ve got more vocal about it.
People tend to pay more attention to negative things. So need and social medias benefit more from spreading negative news and stories.
Rage and doom scrolling. Both men and women engage into it and it leads to the next point.
General radicalization of both sides. A lot of people end up in echo chambers and if they constantly vent without actually addressing those issues, they risk to turn their platforms to crab buckets and echo chambers. Without open discussions it often leads to radicalization.

So there are good and bad sides to what we’re seeing these days. From one hand, women can be more open about their negative experience with certain men and get help and draw attention to these issues. From the other, social medias are full of negative content and radicalized members of both genders have low chances to de-radicalize themselves as they keep consuming rage content and engage in their echo chambers. And it’s a vast issue that isn’t really gendered. Even here if you pay attention, you can see how certain users slowly get more radicalized in their views and attitudes.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-01-29T02:37:26+00:00

Don't feed the shitgibbons, people.

This dingus has no intention of actually having a discussion, he just needs jerk-off material.

r2d2halo · 2023-01-29T00:23:12+00:00

Because the greatest threat to women is men.

Moon-on-my-mind · 2023-01-29T00:12:05+00:00

From history. From watching the news. From watching documentaries about murderers and criminals. From being sexualized, harassed, abused, manipulated, ridiculed, talked down to, all of these starting from the age 11ish (at least what my life was like). So basically life experiences mostly.

No matter how many times i tried giving the benefit of the doubt, i was disappointed, shocked or afraid.

medurevengea · 2023-01-29T00:05:57+00:00

Everything you listed is a good thing and should be encouraged. The hostility is coming from the fact that men have used all these things to terrorize women. Don't expect no pushback.

Safinated · 2023-01-28T23:40:52+00:00

Information

Economic independence

Experience

Please note that declining to fuck or date you is not inherently hostile

GooseneckRoad · 2023-01-28T23:44:19+00:00

I think it's kind of an outlook thing on the part of men- they used to be automatically the most important gender and had some level of control over women. Now they don't as much, and it feels like injustice when it's just society reaching equilibrium.

trettles · 2023-01-28T23:51:46+00:00

For me it's been the assault, sexual assault, harassment, threats, cheating, lies, condescension & contempt.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2023-01-29T00:23:07+00:00

Men expressing a desire for a wife and children and harmonious home are told that they are oppressive and want to take away women’s freedom

Uh no

No one says "oppression" if a man said he'd like a fanily

What people do claim is:

When men want an "agreeable" (read: submissive) woman

When men complain about women "not being women anymore"

"Western woman bad"

"feminism ruined women"

women aren't bound to stay in shitty marriages and how dare women want to not be bang maids anymore!

Career woman bad, but also I want a wife that takes care of the home and the kids more. Pick one.

Men lock woman key, men okay to have lots of sex, woman ruined by sex lol

Source: read this damn sub

men are the least favored in divorce courts and even less in custody cases

Agreed

Men who want to date younger women

Most men who express an explicit desire for a younger woman also tend to fetishise youth and manipulate less experienced women.

Large age gaps only work if the older partner is aware of the implications and is able to mitigate the risk and isn't explicitly after "agreeableness" (again read: submissive bagmaid" and is will not levarage how more "mature" he is.

If you happen to fall into one of these age gap relationship where the older partner isnt after:

agreeableness
after young women deliberately (and more you're just a good person that they manage to get along with)
not in it to leverage resources/maturity ala rp
not 40 year olds chasing 20 year olds

Then you're probably in the clear. It's just that most men here are... Not

masculinity is shamed as toxic

Toxic masculinity is when masculinity hurts others. Traditional masculinity that is not toxic can be: I want to make good money to help provide for my family. Toxic masculinity is men are providers, women aren't so men are better workers.

masculinity is being strong. Toxic masculinity is either forcing, coercing, or bringing down other people either physically or emotionally to feel like they're strong

Toxic masculinity and toxic femininity are when traditional masculine and feminine traits become detrimental.

men’s spaces are either outlawed

Because men have historically used said spaces to help each other and exclude women from networking and in the work place. Men offer jobs to other men and men are the big movers in the economy

I have no issues with men's spaces for things like mental health awareness or male domestic violence victims.

Even now when men try to seek companionship they’re shamed and viewed with suspicion, or even reported to the authorities.

They're not.

They're viewed with suspicion when they don't back off after a no, when they do it in places where women are either forced to interact with them (work, public transport), and when they do so inappropriately (cat calling, being aggressive. Getting angry because I said no to a drink)

What has happened in the last 30 years between the sexes that men are on their way to be worse off than they’ve even been? What caused the hostility against men from women?

Women gained economic freedom and a voice. We've always had suspicions and we're wary of men. Every woman has been told to be careful of men since forever. But now we're encouraged to say "no" more and if a man won't take no for an answer we're encouraged to make a scene more.

Women protest against cat calling, men scream about how unfair it is that they can't shout "hey big tits!" across the street and how women can't take a compliment

Women get told (in this sub even!) about how dumb women are for how they dress and of course men are going to treat you like a piece of meat if you wear yoga pants! Men here say it doesn't matter what woman's aspirations are. What matters is when she spreads her legs and how much she'll clean for them. Yeah, that's great right?

So you want to know why women are more hostile? Ask men.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-01-29T00:32:57+00:00

I see way more hostility towards women these days tbh.

The likes of Andrew Tate and Fresh and Fit are so incredibly hostile and cruel about women and they get millions of views and plenty of support from men. That alone is enough to make many women want to avoid men altogether. It's disgusting.

Emergency-Regret6974 · 2023-01-29T00:19:34+00:00

Have you not been paying attention?

Misandry is a response to the manosphere, incels, Trump being president, losing abortion rights, etc etc. There are now whole accounts dedicated to reposting all the stupid shit you guys say on the internet. Word travels fast.

It's EASY to be misandrist. Women don't have to look for reasons at all.

General_Doubt7181 · 2023-01-28T23:55:09+00:00

Don’t walk alone at night, don’t lead him on, don’t be alone with strange men you don’t know… etc. that’s like everyday talk for a girl.

BusinessGarage2606 · 2023-01-29T00:27:10+00:00

I was just reading twitter threads where men were talking about enslaving women, creating female-only schools were women would be learning how to serve their husbands, talking about how women should be treated as husbands property, that women should never talk over men, that women destroy Poland and more. Some of these guys are active in politics, one dude is a journalist, another one organizes meetings for men. These are not justin ince npc.

They were also saying that Talibans are based because of their treatment of women and that this is how countries are saved. Thousands of shares and likes.

In my case, resentment came from this kind of behavior.

MyLastBestChance · 2023-01-29T00:40:33+00:00

OP, your responses in this thread are exactly why women are hostile towards men.

YOU and your ilk are the problem and there is zero chance that you deserve a wife and a family or to be treated as a peer.

Please rest assured that this judgement is 100% based on the obvious content of your character.

generalmanifest · 2023-01-29T02:56:53+00:00

Now men are suddenly concerned about equality? It’s hilarious. Where was equality as a priority 30 years ago?

Edit: you also seem to be blending masculinity with toxic masculinity. No one is shaming masculinity, the toxicity that can develop from it when it’s couched in entitlement however, that’s an entirely different phenomenon. Are you hearing what women are actually explaining?

Former-Strategy-8213 · 2023-01-28T23:42:29+00:00

There’s no man that actually gets what toxic masculinity refers to that doesn’t see how it’s an explanation for why all the issues you listed are perpetuated in our culture.

NJFlowerchild · 2023-01-29T00:29:28+00:00

Why don't you ask women who warned them against the dangers of men as children? For the majority of us it was our fathers. It was our mothers that had the same experiences as children. Do you think the "overprotective father" came from nowhere?

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2023-01-29T00:28:52+00:00

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Temporary-Drawing212 · 2023-01-29T01:07:25+00:00

Hostility towards men comes from experience with men and when younger boys. When women go on the internet and say yeah fuck man. It's always from bad experiences with them. I don't blame them I believe in disliking men as a collective but appreciate and loving individual men.

2023-01-29T01:33:04+00:00

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ConstructionFun194 · 2023-01-29T01:41:57+00:00

Take your time to read through your responses to the opinions and experiences of women here, you'll see why they are hostile.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-01-29T00:28:27+00:00

Because all the things you talk about carry real risks and every time a woman faces a risk, her fault or not, she's not believed and/or told off for not taking enough action to avoid it. Women aren't generally hostile to men, but they are generally aware of risk. If men want to help this, they can take actions not to present risk themselves, to challenge other men who do, and to make sure that risks are properly dealt with when they do play out.

hedgehoglady · 2023-01-29T00:38:02+00:00

If we’re using your time frame I’d say a lot of gen x woman watched Anita Hill be completely disrespected on national television for her testimony in the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearing. Prior to the 90s sexual harassment at work wasn’t as commonly acknowledged, or was considered the price of admission for women who wanted to participate in the professional or academic spheres that had been previously occupied by men. Marital rape wasn’t a criminalized in all 50 states until 1993, and in the 90s/early 2000s marital rape was still considered a lesser offense than rape committed by a person other than the victims spouse. I would argue that prior to the 90s mens objectionable behavior wasn’t societally condemned as broadly, but was still happening. One day I’m going to make a whole post about family court and custody because l think there’s a lot of common misconceptions about how child custody works in the US and it has changed dramatically in recent years. I would argue that a lot of your post is suggesting the problem is people’s attitudes towards what they perceive as toxic male behavior. Much of the progress for women in the last 30 years is the ability to better address crimes and civil offenses committed against them. I eagerly await the “all it takes is a woman to make a false allegation against a man…” comments to follow. ETA: I made a formatting error. Changed "redress" to "better address"

womandatory · 2023-01-29T01:27:51+00:00

Well, for a start, the fact that 90+% of men claim that it’s ‘normal’ for men to jerk off to images and videos of thousands of other women, particularly with socially repugnant themes such as racism, homophobia, pedophilia, incest, misogyny and domestic violence.

Would you view women in a positive light if the vast majority of us were sexually aroused by the thought of you being abused?

The number one thing men can do to be attractive to women is to not enthusiastically tug their dicks to orgasm to porn. Not an exceedingly difficult ask, but the way many men react when we raise this is like we were threatening to boil them in acid.

2023-01-29T00:47:21+00:00

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Snekky3 · 2023-01-29T00:27:02+00:00

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devasiaachayan · 2023-01-29T03:27:07+00:00

Society has been brainwashed to hate Men. I don't get people saying "bad experiences" With Men when bad experiences with Women happen nearly at the same rate. Mother on child abuse is the most common case of domestic abuse and yet people don't go on hating all Women because of it. This man hating brainwash is a careful tactic used by feminists and the ruling class probably. In a bid to make women feel detached from their class and work against it. It's actually similiar to what Nazis did with all their constant dehumanization of a particular community, Men are less easy to be gassed because they're not vulnerable enough but still just like How black people were treated, Men are legislated into various human rights violations, including slavery. The existence of Men itself is being criminalized. Even before feminism, traditionalism did teach women many myths about Men. Girls are pretty much brainwashed from childhood to treat men as the "other" While we're reached to "respect" All Women. Huge difference in upbringing

Emergency-Regret6974 · 2023-01-29T00:07:09+00:00

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KikiYuyu · 2023-01-29T00:42:59+00:00

I think it is a few things. Some people are grossly overcorrecting for past oppression of women. Some women want symbolic revenge. Some believe that men oppressed women because they are just genetically evil. Some people are just opportunists who see the current political climate as a way to get an edge over half the population.

loonofamad · 2023-01-29T01:57:26+00:00

Stop making valid points, OP. It confuses people 🤣

2023-01-29T00:47:45+00:00

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2023-01-29T01:39:41+00:00

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Embarrassed_Cup2524 · 2023-01-29T02:03:06+00:00

For me I am a female and don't feel accepted by men generally

Carpeaux · 2023-01-29T02:29:16+00:00

The more power women have, the more they do that.

SuspiciousRule · 2023-01-29T03:23:30+00:00

It just takes few bad people to cultivate negative feelings and biases.

Stunning-Spirit5275 · 2023-01-29T03:25:53+00:00

The central axiom of modern feminism is that we live in a tyrannical patriarchy that seeks to opress women in political, social and economic spheres. Furthermore, this dogma dictates that men are the purveyors and sustainers of this paradigm. As a result vilification and exclusion of men is justified as a response. In contrast to their contemporaries, modern feminists view any harms caused to men by the patriarchy as self inflicted and therefore a non- issue at best, and a tool for the attrition of the enemy at worst. It has plainly become an identitarian dialectic of opressor Vs opressed with complete rejection of any nuances or individual beliefs

MistyMaisel · 2023-01-29T03:29:07+00:00

I inherently distrust all men until given good reasons to trust them. Mostly same of women, but it's different. I'd walk alone with a woman at night, ya know.

Animosity for them is more about whatever their set beliefs or actions are. If you don't have shitty ideas about women, I don't have animosity for you. As it is, I mostly like men.

I mean not men here, most or them have atrocious ideas. It's kind of surprising how awful some are even. But even here, there's a few I've had some fun interactions with and they don't seem all bad. I'd have a lemonade and wings with um.

_here_ok · 2023-01-29T03:32:51+00:00

A lot of these just come from paranoia and still seem to be a minority of circumstances. Obviously they are big enough to where it affects many men but it's usually not based on being a man but overall how they look and behave.

If you are a man who is attractive, charismatic or ect then you'll get away with a lot. Those traits let some serial killers mask their crimes for so long without anyone being none the wiser until it's too late. Ted Bundy for example still has secret admirers and it's creepy.

There was also a case I seen where a guy who was "cute" ran over a women and her daughter while driving. A lot of fangirls were claiming for his sentence to be less harsh...

People will and most definitely throw away their morality if you are attractive enough. However if you are appalling or uninteresting they'll dissociate and treat you as filth.

Disgust as an emotion just isn't talked about enough. I don't view It as wrong to feel negative emotions but we most definitely need to recognize them. If you have an irrational fear of men or women boohoo we live with em you're gonna have to face it.

It's like having a fear of heights but being born in the mountains. It's ok to have that fear but you still gotta move around regardless.

thebesttoaster · 2023-01-29T12:59:31+00:00

Men: *rape, kill, violate and brutalize for centuries

21th century women: I guess men make me uncomfortable

Men: why are women so MEAN????

Q4W: Where does this hostility towards men today really come from?

Comments

Children do not need to dress differently to not be harassed.

Title	Q4W: Where does this hostility towards men today really come from?
Author	MyIsland304
Upvotes	39
Comments	484
Date	January 28, 2023 11:39 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/10nt2pp/q4w_where_does_this_hostility_towards_men_today/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4w-where-does-this-hostility-towards-men-today.1149888 https://theredarchive.com/post/1149888