when nice guys complain about their situation is not because being nice didnt get them a girlfriend, but because they can see guys who are far from nice doing way better, but women manipulatively twist this narrative to bully them.

Most_Read_1330 · 2024-02-18T21:40:23+00:00

This is true, it's the just world fallacy. Women aren't attracted to nice. Nothing wrong with that. I just wish they would own it instead of gas lighting.

Dertross · 2024-02-18T17:06:57+00:00

The whole nice guy situation is basically "I trained him wrong, as a joke" then shitting on the man even more when he realizes you typecasted him as a gag character and is frustrated at his mistreatment.

optimuscrymez · 2024-02-18T18:15:42+00:00

Yes. Turns out women can be shitty morons like everyone else. Surprise!

John_Oakman · 2024-02-18T12:42:56+00:00

Genuine moral virtues are independent of worldly results, thus all these factors listed are irrelevant to whether one should pursue moral virtues.

Apprehensive_Cake379 · 2024-02-18T18:57:54+00:00

Those guys can be lazy, awful, abusive bums but still be more attractive overall than the “nice guy” and know how to pull. That’s it at the end of the day, it’s not that deep bro.

baiser_vole · 2024-02-18T13:08:42+00:00

Your superficial traits determine your league. Who you are inside determines who you can get with within your league. If you have enough leverage, you could choose to use it against someone below your league who is superficial enough to take your BS.

Bekiala · 2024-02-18T14:58:17+00:00

Ugh there are plenty of toxic abusive people who find partners. It isn't good. Sadly many issues aren't immediately apparent in a potential partner although if this individual is choosing really messed up people with whom to have a relationship, that is a sign things are off.

OP I hope you can avoid these toxic women and find someone decent if that is what you want.

Few_Advertising3430 · 2024-02-18T12:52:44+00:00

Dating does not have to be fair. It’s not “fair” for women or men. Men date manipulative women sometimes, women date manipulative men sometimes. Manipulative people can be attractive because well they are manipulative and know the things to say. When people are mature and love and themselves stop dating manipulative people, or do it to a lesser extent. In any case however nice we are, we are not owed a partner, that is not how relationships work, for women or men. This mindset is entitled.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-02-18T14:11:48+00:00

he is gonna be very confused when he sees women still fucking, chasing, cheating with and willingfuly dating guys who are: bad, bums, drug addicts, cheaters, players, abusers, dead beats, thugs, bullies, rude, douchebags and straight treat women poorly

Are those the women nice guys want to date?

I don’t socialize with antisocial men or women, so I’m utterly unconcerned with who either dates. Why are nice guys fixated on people whose behavior they find repugnant? What does it have to do with them?

dudes who are the opposite are boring or bad people is obviously going to sting in a hurtful way

Those guys aren’t going to date the women they are complaining about, they aren’t a good match for them. They are, in fact, to boring for people who seek drama and trauma. This constant complaint is irritating because of nice guys’ fixation on women who are entirely out of reach, and shouldn’t be on nice guy radar, anyway. It’s wallowing.

Claiming that nice guys deserve to be lonely

They don’t do (typo) deserve to be lonely, nor do they deserve a woman who isn’t interested in them. But they’ll never find women who are interested in them because they are hopelessly fixated on women who are not an option.

SmallSituation6432 · 2024-02-18T13:17:18+00:00

So, to sum up raising boys with positive values is wrong because the world isn't just? The "sting" of realizing the world exists beyond you is not unique to men. That's literally just a description of growing up to be an adult.

Do you seriously not understand that some advice is meant to apply to more than just dating? Or even the basic idea that just because others succeed with unethical behavior that doesn't mean its impossible to succeed with ethical behavior?

How fucking insecure are you that the idea that someone can be an asshole and succeed is so appalling and foreign to you that it needs to be the foundation of an argument against maintaining positive values?

claratheresa · 2024-02-18T15:07:30+00:00

Are men morally required to have relationships with women they find totally unattractive just because they’re “nice”?

Random_Average_Human · 2024-02-18T15:09:01+00:00

When women say we like nice guys, we are assuming that you want to be with a nice woman. The thing is a woman who is an asshole is not going to filter out a guy based off of him not being nice. Be who you want to attract, if you want a woman whose nice, be a nice guy if you want a woman who is mean be a mean guy. No nice woman likes assholes. The woman you see who are with those assholes are also horrible themselves so you shouldn’t think about them. Why are you upset that trash is going out with trash.

drok007 · 2024-02-18T12:34:45+00:00

The problem is you don’t understand women, you mention a bunch of bullshit that you think should matter and it doesn’t, because women aren’t men. You literally just have to be fun and fun to be around, and you will attract women. Being boring is the death sentence. Pretty much everything else is irrelevant. Didn’t red pill used to talk about the tingles? Is that gone now because none of you know anything anymore?

avpd_girl · 2024-02-18T16:10:41+00:00

Is every single women you know dating assholes? Is every man (male friends, coworkers, male family members) you know that’s in a relationship, an asshole?

You should just be a decent person for the sake of being a decent person.

And just being nice will not be enough. I consider myself to be a nice person and I always struggled with making friends. It’s the same thing, being nice alone, doesn’t mean people want to be in a relationship with you or be friends with you.

flipsidetroll · 2024-02-18T22:44:41+00:00

So you believe that because you are raised to be nice, decent, moral, upstanding citizen, then the world should then shower you with good karma for you to get the woman you want? You also believe that the assholes getting the women you want, are in fact, always assholes and don’t make any effort? Why exactly do you think that? Because you are not with said asshole 24 hrs a day, so just because you don’t see something doesn’t mean it’s not happening. And then of course the whole “but I know I’m better than him in every way, so why does he get her and I don’t?” First, your rating system is completely subjective to you, so you may think you outclass him in every way, but to her, he’s better. So what exactly makes him an asshole and you not? Second, if you are a good person, you are a good person, regardless of the circumstances, the people around you and actions of others. If you are a good person only depending on the circumstances, people around you etc, with expectations of reward, then you are, in fact, not good and are exactly the manipulative person described. Third, are we whores who will always go for assholes, or are our standards too high like so many of you complain about? It can’t be both.

The language and thought processes of the pills continues to show how childish it makes men and how it totally dumbs you down, as you display zero logic.

DXBrigade · 2024-02-18T23:03:38+00:00

I have never met a self-proclaimed "nice guy" who wasn't unattractive and/or socially awkward and the guys who do better than them are superior to them in every metrics minus maybe niceness.

Safinated · 2024-02-18T16:08:44+00:00

Nah, it’s because they’re unsuccessful

If they were getting laid, they wouldn’t give a fuck what other dudes were doing

RubyDiscus · 2024-02-18T13:08:25+00:00

It's because they are envious and entitled.

They are annoyed that a guy that they percieve as imperfect gets to have a girl, and they don't.

Both envy that others get to have what they want, while they "miss out".

As well as entitlement because they believe things should be "fair" and that they are owed females and female attention.

SIeight_of_Hand · 2024-02-18T13:19:19+00:00

Being nice aren’t the things that make you attractive.

You just think these guys are assholes because you listened to women your entire life, and you made yourself a promise not to become like one of those guys. Unfortunately, women like to talk about all day long what they imagine sounds good, but in reality they go for those guys who aren’t codependent and not pushy, leaned back, charming with social game. Your perception is just shaped after what you heard your entire life because maybe you’re afraid of being left alone and rejected because the most important person you thought was good, was actually not so good or didn’t know what impact it had on you when she told you that "good boys don’t do x, y and z." "If you do this i will leave you" which made you actually codependent. Mothers aren’t always perfect and some parenting strategies are based on inconsistent emotional outbursts, which maybe also makes you afraid of the emotions of tge current women you’re dating.

You’re a nice guy in a world where nobody actually is interested to figure out what the problem is with you, because your problems might be politically incorrect, so what you gonna do about it?

Talk to anonymous strangers online and swap notes with them? Probably.

SoldierExcelsior · 2024-02-18T18:05:59+00:00

It's really about looks that's all that matters...being nice will just get you scraps.

Jaded_Interaction162 · 2024-02-18T17:07:34+00:00

There is nothing more unattractive to me than a guy who describes himself as a nice guy. Pompous, holier-than-thou way of saying "I have nothing of value to offer anyone".

Are you attractive? "I'm a nice guy." Are you assertive? "I'm a nice guy." Can you take care of yourself? "I'm nice." Are you self sufficient? "I'M NICE. THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH."

If that's the only descriptive word you can use for yourself, you probably have 0 personality, are not socially dynamic, you're not popular or cool, you're just lame. YOU'RE BORING.

ArmyFit1004 · 2024-02-18T13:17:43+00:00

It's just annoying when people tell me to improve on my personality, while I can clearly see and know that many abusive asshole guys are having no problems dating, just cause they're hot.

TRTGymBro · 2024-02-18T15:35:58+00:00

Imagine having all this evidence against the belief that nice guys get the girl and still holding on to the nice guy persona

Objective_Ad_6265 · 2024-02-18T15:49:11+00:00

It doesn't compute because you can't compute attraction and spark, it doesn't work like that. It's based on feelings, it's not rational computed decision.

waffleznstuff30 · 2024-02-18T21:40:57+00:00

The issue is they assume "the assholes" aren't nice. Most people are nice. Every asshole I have dated didn't start as an asshole.

They become one overtime. The sleaziest fuckboy and player can start off as the nicest guy. And there is nothing nicer than a man who wants something from you. Whether it's to date you, to sleep with you, whatever else.

So being nice isn't something to boast and brag about. Its a bare minimum expectation that the person we are with wants to treat us well.

meangingersnap · 2024-02-19T00:52:36+00:00

Look at who those men are dating. Consider why they are dating someone that treats them poorly. Surely there's an issue with people that accept that. Are those women who you want to date? The ones dating dealers are most likely junkies. If you want to date junkies start selling drugs and stfu

Defundisraelnow · 2024-02-18T15:23:38+00:00

If you're angry that toxic people are in toxic situations and you're excluded, maybe you're toxic. I don't think good men are concerned about assholes dating each other.

SeveralAcorns · 2024-02-18T13:45:08+00:00

The anger of self proclaimed nice guys isnt because being nice didnt get them a girlfriend, is because they were told that being a good boy was the bare minimun to be liked by women at least

Three points:

(1) Nice guys are not nice. They THINK they are nice but what they are is insecure and this leads them to doormat behavior in order to please others so they are accepted and liked by others, where they can't be secure and confident in their own judgment of their person. Every time a nice guy doesn't get the validation they need for acting "nice", they show their toxic and insecure actual personality and it becomes apparent how calculated and desperate their "niceness" is.

(2) Women overall do require their partners to be nice to them. That some women exist, who are drawn to abusive men due to childhood experiences is not proof that being nice is not what women want. All studies on partner trait preferences show that "kindness" is the number one most important personality trait that women look for. It's cross culturally, global, over decades. It's not "women lie abotu what they want". This is a much fact as anything you could possibly say about men and women in dating. Kindness is fucking important. Mental health related exceptions are not the ground to throw this truth out of the window. Doing so is in fact a sign of being angry they don't have a girlfriend and looking for a flaw in the system rather than in themselves.

(3) Being liked is not the same as being sexually attracted to. Being nice is not even on the same axis as being sexually attracted to. Sexual attraction is not a function that included "niceness". Women don't marry men who are not nice to them, unless they are abuse victims with a toxic addiction to being mistreated and thinking this is love. But women fuck men who are not nice to them.

Ok-Dust-4156 · 2024-02-18T12:50:26+00:00

Being nice isn't enough by itself and putting somebody ahead of you at your own expense is repulsive. Once you try to be a "nice guy" and fail you supposed to learn that. "Nice guys" just can't learn from their own experience.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-02-18T15:28:38+00:00

Yeah and plenty of guys who have girlfriends also are left handed. Doesn’t mean the women are secretly leaving right handed dudes because they prefer left handed ones. It’s correlation not causation. Women aren’t getting with assholes BECAUSE they’re assholes. Same with men who get with manipulative women. They aren’t attracted to the negative aspects of her personality (for the most part, at least). Attraction is hugely complex—yes, physical appearance is part of this, but so are a myriad of other things such as your environment, compatibility, personal history, etc. It’s crazy to me that men will look at other men in relationships and say, out of all the things they’re seeing, “that guy is in a relationship and I’m not, so therefore I should embody all of his negative characteristics and then I’ll get a girl to like me”

Muscletov · 2024-02-18T12:56:37+00:00

The entire nice guy strawman is simply a blatant demonization strategy to reconcile women's self-image of being the profound, deep, romantic etc. gender with reality. Most glaring tell: constantly accusing nice guys of wanting sex only instead of relationships. Because it's much easier to hate guys after sex only instead of those who want relationships.

SupposedlySapiens · 2024-02-18T18:26:46+00:00

No one is twisting anything. It’s just that this sub is overpopulated with dudes on the spectrum who take shit so goddamn literally that they end up completely misunderstanding simple concepts. They hear someone say, “oh you’re such a nice boy, you’ll make a girl really happy one day,” and they think: “being nice is how you get a woman.” Sorry, but that’s on you.

You say guys accept when they get passed on for someone who is objectively better, but you don’t seem to be accepting it. The reason the “asshole” got the girl and you didn’t was because he most likely is better looking than you, more confident than you, more fun/exciting to be around than you, etc. So yeah, congrats, you were nice. Big fucking deal. You’re also boring as hell with nothing to excite or attract a woman. And yet you’re surprised by the outcome?

Also, women don’t end up with “bad, manipulative, and abusive” guys all the time. They’re just as likely to end up with good, thoughtful, caring men, but you don’t notice those examples because they refute your whole narrative. Face it: a lot of what you and others like you are feeling and saying ultimately comes down to jealousy. “Chad” isn’t necessarily an asshole. But your brain labels him as such because you’re jealous of the fact that he gets more girls because he’s taller, better looking, more athletic, wealthier, and more fun than you. None of those things make him an asshole though, and for all you know he treats his girl like a queen. Sure, some women end up with “bums” and “drug addicts,” but why tf would you ever want to be with such trashy women to begin with?

purplish_possum · 2024-02-18T14:15:16+00:00

Their bigger problem is believing life is ever going to be fair. These are the same guys who are crushed when they get laid off or outsourced after years of loyal service.

AutoModerator · 2024-02-18T04:44:10+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Junior_Ad_3086 · 2024-02-18T18:07:05+00:00

putting women first = simp

women don't like simps

KorinTowerFreeloader · 2024-02-18T19:22:41+00:00

When women say what they want in a man, they mean top-tier men, the men they are already attracted to. Due to hypergamy, these men are usually of higher value than the said women, so the women are usually insecure, intimidated, and nervous. Fanny flatters come to mind, etc. Remember that most men are invisible to women. Therefore, women do not lie when they say they want these things because if top-tier men act like sweet, nice guys, it means the women can domesticate them, so it equals the playing field. However, this is a horrible piece of advice to 90% of men who are not top-value men. We need to create insecurity, tension, and excitement. If we play it "nice," we will end up in the friendzone, or worse, as the creeps.

philseven12 · 2024-02-18T19:48:12+00:00

Women just make up stuff to say to justify what they are attracted to. They can't go on record saying they like handsome toxic masculinity. It's a survival mechanism to make themselves be seen as more moral than men because they are less able to physically defend themselves.

If the stuff that went on in women's heads or the things that arouse them were common knowledge, they'd be treated the same as men. Making them equally deserving of physical consequences and criticism

ExternalBarracuda292 · 2024-02-19T06:00:08+00:00

The great irony is there are a ton of nice girls who are don't have any guys asking them out either. You probably know quite a few of them, they're just not people you'd ever really be interested in, because niceness isn't a strong attractor for either gender.

Freevoulous · 2024-02-19T09:46:07+00:00

I wonder, who is exactly telling men that being "A Good Boy" would get them pussy/girlfriends?

Aside from Grandma, pretty much no woman ever holds that opinion.

Ask any woman what kind of a man she wants, and they say things like: strong, tall, masculine, interesting, honest, etc, not just nice.

This idea does not come from Mothers: they insist on their sons to be responsible, conscientious, hard working and useful, not exactly Nice. Nice does not win you points with Mom.

Neither does it come from Dads. Respect Dads get is almost inversely proportional to their Nice Guy status, so no son would ever look at a Nice Guy Dad and think "I want a life like that!"

Neither do the media: the movies and TV don't show spineless Nice Guys get the GF, its always the strong, muscular, heroic badasses.

Liberals don't tell people Nice guys get GFs: Liberal/Left politics pretty much says Nice Guys should get nothing, and still be thankful.

Conservatives don't tell men to be Nice Guys, they tell them to be Tough Guys, Manly Guys, Guys who Tell it Like it Is (TM), regardless of results.

Religion is not telling men to be Nice. Every religious male figure shown to get laid was some kind of badass or a warlord. Hell, even Jesus did not get Mary Magdalene until after he whipped several dudes and stood up to an angry crowd. Badass. Nice? Maybe.

So where does this idea come from?

neofau · 2024-02-19T20:50:05+00:00

Some of the BPs in this subreddit need to win a Guiness World Record for missing the point. Most guys who have been raised to be nice by their families often at the behest of female relatives who told these men that women are attracted to kindness in men . These guys arent saying:

"iM A NicE GUy, wHERE dA HArem aND dA hOEz aT?"

They are asking:

"Why is it that I consistently fail in dating, yet guys that are abusive/racist/drug dealer/obsesivelly drug using/dysfunctional/assholes consistently more successful than me?"

And apperantly asking this question is somehow a moral failing on men, most likely because the very existence of the question can be construed to make women look bad.

Oh and dont try to say the women that date these assholes are in a low socioeconomic group/ghetto/trailer park/ or whatever. In my experience these were girls/women from suburbs in high income areas im not trying to hear that BS. Me personally I would tell my nephews/sons that they should find a happy medium don't be an asshole but dont be so nice that its seen as a weakness.

kalecikkarasi · 2024-02-19T23:06:32+00:00

We all know that smoking kills and obesity isn’t healthy, but still, people smoke and eat badly. After all, we are not entirely rational beings and regardless of gender sometimes we are not honest to ourselves.

Attraction is a layered complex matter. Especially for ONS, some women don’t need niceness. If a woman is out of my league hot and she’s sleeping with me, I would overlook some of her unwanted behavior.

Yes, being nice should be minimum, and you should also have other qualities, perhaps some “bad” ones. This guy gets it, I recommend you watch it.

Lower-Director1043 · 2024-02-21T00:15:03+00:00

Most of the time women accuse men of being entitled because they feel guilty of hurting an innocent person.

CaterpillarEntire865 · 2024-02-22T13:07:11+00:00

Fuck nice guys. They are pussies. Nice guys were dosed by the Walt Disney corporation and now they’re doomed to be pushovers and cheated on for all eternity.

Comments