Has men's standards of desired attractiveness in women always been so basic?

EminemLovesGrapes · 2019-10-24T22:39:54+00:00

What you were fed were standards defined by women. Men don't really care that much, women do.

Ever read those magazines where they make up some crazy blowjob technique?

It's on that level.

Women compete with themselves to be prettier than each other.

They were right in a way. The ones that like those standards are high value men. But there's not many of those. And if you're genetically fucked you're never going to be anything more than a fwb for guys like that.

If you don't mind that, that's fine.

The only standard I have is don't be fat. And I'm generally attracted to women that have short, especially red hair, and a well defined face.

But a lot of these beauty standards are made up by magazines. By companies that want to monetize your insecurity.

A man who is attracted to you won't care.

randomizer3000 · 2019-10-24T21:06:58+00:00

A lot of guys will have a couple of specific things they really care about more.

But in general, yeah. Be nice, be healthy, don't look like you just got run over.

NOTSM · 2019-10-24T21:14:17+00:00

Don't be fat and be fun to be around is 90% of what makes a woman attractive to most men and I think it's always been that way. What you're describing is what it takes to be the kind of woman men do crazy things for and other women are jealous of.

Sort of like how most men want to be the kind of man women desperately hurl themselves at. But that doesn't mean if a man isn't at that level he's automatically ugly.

MrHerbSherman · 2019-10-24T20:51:54+00:00

I mean, “be attractive to me” and “impress me” are pretty far apart

Yeah lots of girls are attractive but few stand out

NockerJoe · 2019-10-24T21:11:36+00:00

I would say it's never been the exacting standards women assume. Even like 20 years ago people found that straight people project a higher standard than actually exists in the other gender. So women will assume they either need to be some titty monster or stick thin or men assume they need to be a roided out body builder or also stick thin.

I think with women it's worse because there's a much larger industry geared to making them buy products and do pilates and yoga and cardio kickboxing and that means women need to believe only the best women get good results because otherwise they get nothing. Even here we have shitflinging contests between who's working harder to fill those standards regularly despite everyone saying they've picked people who don't fill them very often. Not gonna lie I've been a part of a lot of that.

hammerhaunts · 2019-10-24T21:11:07+00:00

More women got fat

findingfemininity · 2019-10-24T21:15:56+00:00

I think it's pretty well accepted that men have lower standards for who they'll fuck vs who they'll date seriously. So yeah it's probably true that men will find any girl that's thin and has a cute face attractive, but that doesn't mean they'll relationship her.

diffdedbed · 2019-10-24T22:59:41+00:00

Way back in the darkages of the early 90s when I was actively dating and single, standards if anything were lower. Social media if anything has made them rise a little.

rus9384 · 2019-10-24T20:54:21+00:00

'~~boys~~ Chads only like skinny girls who still have curves and you need to look like this and this to impress them'.

Fly_Guy_97 · 2019-10-24T21:27:21+00:00

LOL it has been pretty basic for the last decade or two.

All most men ask for:

Not be obese Mutual respect Shorter Some form of intimacy

But it’s cool to have a long as list of demands as a whale single mother because of the patriarchy while being praised by their friends, “YOU GO GIRK YOU DESERVE THE BEST!!!!”

bonusfruit · 2019-10-24T22:31:19+00:00

Women hold eachother to far higher beauty standards than men ever have. Yes, vaguely female shaped humans are enough for the vast majority of men

erman88 · 2019-10-24T22:40:12+00:00

This isn't reflective of society at all.

I'm pretty sure men on here are saying that to reinforce the argument that women are super picky and if they were in that position of power they wouldn't be.

Men in the real world who can get laid by girls who qualify for those basic requirements have higher standards than that, and the guys on here would be as well if they could be. More options = higher standards, for both sexes.

Rebel-100 · 2019-10-24T23:15:37+00:00

My taste in woman is just attractive face, your gonna look at it all the time you have to like it. If the face is more exotic or different then standard variation of what is beautiful I love it. I would definitely date a taller woman, taller woman typically are the ones who have reserves about dating me. I don't mind chubby and thick girls with in reason, so long as they have a nice face and look like they take care of them selfs.

I once went on a date with a woman who's profile pictures didn't capture her weight. I didn't comment about it like some asshole, but she managed to throw a jab at my height when I got out of the car. All be it this could have just been a defense mechanism, but c'mon girl, people in glass houses. Anyway, I started laughing and was like "Oh so is that a deal breaker for you?"

Woman have the difficulty of trying to find out which guys are actually interested in dating them and which ones just want sex. If they stopped picking the guys who have the most viable options for relationships and causal sex, they'd find men more ready to commit. I get it though, they don't want to date down and give up the hunt for perfect, they'll save that for 30 when there biological clocks start ticking.

webernicke · 2019-10-24T21:52:31+00:00

Yes, IME the idea that men put women under very high standards of beauty is always greatly exaggerated, for a couple of big reasons.

Women use beauty as a way to compete over status with each other and incorrectly assume that those seen as high status among women should also be seen as desirable by men. Except that women mainly value fashion tropes, displays of wealth and glamour as markers of beauty, whilst men mainly value sexuality. The two sometimes overlap but they are different. Good example of this: Sarah Jessica Parker. She is seen as very beautiful by many women while almost all men think she looks like a horse.
Women assume that men are hypergamous. That is, women assume that men's standards rise to meet the best options availible. As a woman gains access to more attractive mates, what was previously attractive becomes lackluster.

In contrast, men have a pretty basic minimum threshold and are going to be interested in any woman clearing that bar, despite obvioisly getting more excited by hotter women. Understanding this is complicated by the fact that men will sometimes cheat for no other reason than sexual convenience, which is baffling to women. Women generally won't cheat on superior men with inferior men and, seeking to explain why a man cheated will confuse markers of sexual availability as "standards of beauty."

Apex fallacy of course plays a role, as women are only interested in being attractive to high status men, who themselves are displaying thier status by surrounding themselves with extremely beautiful women (because they have the options, not necessarily because those are his strict standards.) Lesser men that salivate over more modest women are invisible. Cue surprised pikachu when a high status man will refuse to commit to a woman he's happy to sleep with, or when a high status man commits to a more modest woman i.e. "he can do so much better" (men say this about hs men as well tbf)
The idea that women are culturally subject to harsh standards imposed by men dovetails nicely with the feminist narrative of patriarchy and female oppression. Coming to the conclusion that woman are thier own harshest critics requires creative, unorthodox thinking.

slavicgypsygirl · 2019-10-24T23:28:25+00:00

Ime the reverse is true

Some men I date have asked me to lose weight even though I am 5'9 & under 100lbs

Bought me dresses & shoes to wear to events bc they didn't like any of mine

Tried to persuade me to allow them to buy me breast implants

Handed me $100 to buy lip balm b4 he kissed me bc I had "been in the sun too long"

damaskrose · 2019-10-24T23:36:43+00:00

It's a bit disingenuous. Nerds who can't get Stacy will ask you out, then try to turn you into Stacy. They've got low standards in the sense they'll deign to go out with you, but they won't accept you or treat you well. Always taking little digs at your appearance, holding you to a higher standard than themselves.

Jathrowaway97 · 2019-10-24T23:48:10+00:00

It seems to go on a gradient. The more you want from a man and the better quality you want a man to be you’ll need more as a woman.

Shadow_Of_ · 2019-10-25T00:24:36+00:00

Shorter than me is the weird part. I thought us dudes didn't care about height as long as she wasn't a complete midget or a monster. I wouldn't have a problem with a girl taller than me.

iceicle999 · 2019-10-25T17:11:05+00:00

It's very basic from what I can see in many aspects. Women on the internet just complain about men's alleged high standards because they know there will be an echo chamber there waiting for them. Like someone else said, in certain aspects it's the case that if a woman wants a good man, then she has to be a good quality woman, and that's exactly the way it should be.

greenteaapplepie69 · 2019-10-24T23:17:09+00:00

Moids have high standards they just don’t realise it.

When they say “just be skinny and cute” they don’t give exact definitions of what skinny and cute are to them. Skinny and cute to men is a curvy skinny girl with a flat stomach and a face like a supermodel. They think average is Adriana Lima without makeup. Or Anne Hathaway. Wursties have a skewed Ed perspective on what average women look like, especially on reddit.

goatismycopilot · 2019-10-24T21:15:19+00:00

Female bodies are pretty interchangeable for men, so it is like those barbie dolls where you got five million outfits oh look doctor barbie, oh look safari barbie. Basically a woman could get her head cut off have a new one sewn on and it would not matter to the dude in question as long as their was some similarity to what he perceived as existing before. Add to that a majority of the men in PPD think that women are less interesting, not funny, have basic bitch hobbies, and no goals. Men will fuck a puddle of moldy peanut butter on a cactus in 120 degree weather so you have to take what they are saying within that context.

darksoldierk · 2019-10-25T03:06:47+00:00

No, it's that men of this generation grew up being told that it's cruel to have standards for attractiveness. At very young ages, boys were told (normally by old fat women with some authority over the boy's lives) that having standards and expecting women to live up to those standards was misogynistic and cruel. That their desire was causing real psychological trauma to women everywhere.

escapethesolarsystem · 2019-10-25T08:51:29+00:00

Has most men's taste in women always been this simple and bare minimal?

Yep. Men aren't super picky, but most western women can't even manage to fall into most men's very basic requirements (don't be fat, don't be a bossy, entitled bitch).

LeJacquelope · 2019-10-24T20:51:59+00:00

This is why men get themselves in so much trouble. They place zero value in a woman's moral character and personality and 100% value in her looks, then men wonder why AWALT.

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goneaway2thewind · 2019-10-25T16:51:47+00:00

The only people I've heard of making serious demands of people they don't even know yet were women

Avriess · 2019-10-26T02:43:42+00:00

Men's strategy is as many mates as possible, without pickiness because they don't have to do anything other than produce semen.

Women's strategy is more picky because they expend more resources.

Really makes you bitter, but there's no other way it could have been. Females who were more picky (in the right way) had better children and females who weren't picky were culled out for not playing for that advantage.

Part of the reason that humans are so different in strategy across sex is the power differential between females and males. The only viable strategy to gain security for your children if you were a female was to chose a higher quality male, because you were barred from the major resources of society, like land, reputation, and trade.

Perhaps with the advent of equality that has washed over the culture, these terrifying artifacts of necessary evil will be washed away from effective meaning, but that is yet to be seen and is likely to take a very very long time.

Until then, studies are showing that human women are using some of their human flexibility in more equitable societies to become less picky, which is nice despite the affect being somewhat small. Men have less work to do, since they only have to gain control of themselves a bit and direct the majority of their energy to their current partner.

There is a silver lining to be left with.

FabioAbdilla · 2019-10-26T07:41:41+00:00

Women are more picky than men. This is how the sexes have evolved and there are countless studies to prove it. Men evolved for quick mating with little to no commitment to spread as much of their genes as possible, therefore they can get off with pretty much most women around. On the other hand, in our society with actual consequences, if they could choose between a fat woman and a skinny woman with fat in all the right places they would choose the former.

AllUsermamesAreTaken · 2019-10-30T22:06:15+00:00

Women are the pickier sex. Men don't really give a fuck about your looks if you're not obese. I don't know a time where this would've been different.

Pressure on women to look "so good" does not come from men the way you might be thinking. It's a result of women competing for attractive men which due to women being picky are very scarce and it's the scarcity of attractive men that creates the pressure as a result of women having high standards for looks.

There IS however pressure from men on women to not be obese as most men see obesity as utterly unattractive. Whether this is an issue is debatable. On one hand it creates pressure to be healthy (which is great) but it can damage mental health of obese women. However, given that obesity itself is linked to poorer mental health as well as physical health I dare say that any obese man or woman should seek treatment for obesity.

captainmo017 · 2019-10-24T22:24:03+00:00

Men will fuck anything with a hole. It's how it's been, it's how it'll always be.

XtoDoubt · 2019-10-24T20:55:23+00:00

We're hard wired to find more women attractive in order to spread our seed. It's nothing new.

TheBookOfSeil · 2019-10-24T22:33:24+00:00

No. Those are the basics but they’re negotiable. I can like women that are as tall or taller than me, and they don’t have to be conventionally attractive either. Who they are shines through their appearance. A lot of guys would never enter into a relationship with a bitchy, naggy, whiny drama queen no matter how hot she was. They’d only keep her around long enough to have sex with and make sure that she wants to continue doing it. In other words, just using her for sex because that’s basically all she’s good for.

Guys want someone they can also connect with. It’s just a bonus when she’s actually physically attractive, even if most guys pursue all of the attractive women first.

CosmicBioHazard · 2019-10-24T22:57:39+00:00

to be fair, I’m pretty picky; I’m just picky specifically about faces. The rest of the body less so.

Transmigratory · 2019-10-25T04:52:27+00:00

Basic yet a lot of women can't meet the criteria and proceed to whine about how unfair the basic standard is. XD

Forgetful_Panda · 2019-10-25T05:50:50+00:00

There are a number of cultures that prize heavy-set or obese women. Historically and in some areas present-day, obesity is seen as a sign of wealth and health. There are countries where girls pop pills to gain weight the way American girls take them to lose weight, and places where girls are sent to camps to be forced into weight gain. Marilyn Monroe is considered one of the most beautiful women of all time but she would have been overweight by today's American social standards. Up to the mid 1800's, it was considered highly attractive for upper-class Chinese women to have petite, child-sized feet. To that end, their feet were broken and bound till they grew deformed and smelled foul. Beauty standards vary by cultures and change over time, the standard of preferring overly thin people used to be much less common because of how more common it was to be underfed or have a disease. If you're surrounded by people who are skinny because they're malnourished or have a sickness that causes them to waste away, you're not going to see being skinny as a desirable trait. The luxury associated with being fat, or at least a little heavier, made it traditionally more attractive. Food scarcity and disease are no longer the overwhelming issues that they used to be in America, and people have the 'luxury' to see skinniness as something other than a sign of being poor or unhealthy.

geyejoe7 · 2019-10-25T11:42:03+00:00

Women are hyper selective and tend to choose partners carefully. Often times putting themselves into hypergamous relationships in order to be satisfied.

Also, as you've mentioned, they like to pick men within the top 20%. So when you are a guy in the 80%, you have to settle for what are often lower quality women, because higher quality ones know they can pick and choose the best partner.

Men that don't want to face the impossible standards of a lot of women, just accept what they can get, if it's somewhere in the range of what their ideal girl should be.

Also, the fact that women tend to say "I don't care if he isn't this, I don't care if he isn't that." Doesn't mean that they won't, in most cases, wait for a better partner to show up. And lock him down.

Sad_Virgin_Beta_Male · 2019-10-25T14:16:48+00:00

Definetly, sub7 males settle for anything that at least looks as a female, while females only compete for the top men. Maybe there was a time when the sexual market wasn't completely broken, and most men could choose. Not anymore. Most average men around me are lonely, and I'm an incel myself... Despite having a good job and some money to spare. I'm just too ugly, so no female in this century is able to even imagine herself dating me.

Any femcel that you know here or anywhere is just a female that doesn't want to settle with her looksmatch. I've seen this so many times by now. It's fucking sad.

[deleted] · 2019-10-24T22:30:53+00:00

Yeah, guys are pretty simple and straightforward.

haleykohr · 2019-10-25T01:04:56+00:00

Supply vs demand, plus buying power have all drained lost men of options

Ubermensch-1 · 2019-10-25T02:31:38+00:00

'boys only like skinny girls who still have curves and you need to look like this and this to impress them'

What you were taught is wrong.

Then growing up into my early 20s, it seems like women are the pickier sex.

I'm surprised you ever thought humans were any different. Intersexual selection has always been done primarily by women and men have always done things to impress them.

Has most men's taste in women always been this simple and bare minimal?

Yes.

Or is it the increased competition amongst the bottom 80% of men trying to scramble for women that caused them to not be picky?

In past, more "sexually equitable" generations, men may have put on a charade of sexual selectivity to keep up appearances, but men have rarely, if ever, passed up the chance to bone women, including basic or even slightly homely ones, when no one was watching.

Freevoulous · 2019-10-25T07:09:50+00:00

Archaeologist here:

Men's taste in women had been stable and unchanging since as far as we can research. It seems to be either hard-coded into human instinct by evolution, or is such an ancient set of standards that all human males share it. Who men actually fucked and impregnated was completely independent of the "artistic beauty" of the times

overwhelming response was just 'shorter than me, not obese, cute face'.

Basically, this. Analysis of all cultures form ancient, through medieval to modern, and the analysis of the bones of women since the Palaeolithic Age confirms this:

- men prefer women shorter than them, but usually not very short

- men prefer slim but curvaceous women, with rounded butts, hips and breasts, but not unnecessary fat (yes, even cultures that WORSHIPPED fat fertility goddesses still fucked only slim women).
- men prefer "cute" faces (small chins, large eyes, small noses ), with symmetrical and young looking features

- men prefer women slightly younger than them

- Most men throughout history preferred women to be slightly on the thicker side, and with a bit of a muscle (more Xena than Emma Watson). More fit that skinny as it were.

We know that because women with these traits bred more often, had more children, survived longer, and were found in more prosperous societies.

TLDR: men were always going after the same type and attractiveness level of chicks. Uglies were always ugly, fatties always fat, and hourglass figure was always the most beloved by males. Nothing ever changed and nothing will, unless we redesign male brains from scratch.

Daffan · 2019-10-25T08:44:42+00:00

I remember being fed the lines,

Fed lines by women of course.

Women compete with each other on insane levels. Makeup, clothes and all sorts of stuff. Majority of online bullying to women is by women (Twitter I know for sure), they basically shit on each other and make it seem like you need to be god tier to exist.

JameisBong · 2019-10-24T23:27:35+00:00

TBH men will work with you for the most part. Kind and feminine women are more desirable to most men. Bitchy and entitled women no matter how hot they are,will not be desirable for anything long term.

Kos_-_Omak · 2019-10-25T04:37:06+00:00

most men are relatively low value, horny, and desperate. for many of them their standards for a chick are basically just 1. have a pussy and 2. be down to fuck.

but those men aren't the men that women actually want to be with. desirable high value men have an abundance of options. those higher value men can afford to have higher standards and to be picky. especially in the context of LTR/commitment.

Man_Frame_YouTube · 2019-10-25T01:22:41+00:00

It depends on how a man perceives his own value.

I'm a lover of feminine women. And, specially, natural ones. I prefer smaller boobs to any kind of implant job. They just don't look good to me and, to me, it's cheating biology/nature. For many men, it works. Still, I'm by no means against it and support if a woman says it makes her feel more complete (attractive).

Being feminine is the best genetics. Still, I can see, in the middle of all kinds of body modifications/workout/implants/makeup/whatever a woman can do to try to look more attractive, if she is truly blessed by nature or not. If not, assuming nature wasn't too harsh on her, her level of femininity is what can keep her "in the game".

MisterJose · 2019-10-25T05:13:04+00:00

Men have some instinct to fuck all the attractive women. That's what you're missing. We want that girl who meets the standards, and then we want the next one too. And the next one. As many as we can get.

This isn't everything that we want. To contrast, I personally have a trend of often falling for my female friends. That isn't so much about hotness, it's about it being them. I like them, I'm comfortable with them, I want to (gasp) make love looking at them, not have some bend-over fantasy. If anything, they are the ones frequently judging guys as relationship/boyfriend material more shallowly. If you mean nothing to me, then yes I just want to fuck you, and your roommate at the same time probably. But that's not a universal state of affairs.

jayval90 · 2019-10-25T05:23:02+00:00

For me there's a 2 stage onslaught. Initially, I get the same negative reaction to the bottom 80% of women. But if I concentrate on her face for roughly 5 seconds, I can easily see past the flaws. That's probably all but the aggressively ugly (bottom 10%-20%). After that, the attraction modifies mostly based on personality.

anitapk · 2019-10-25T05:32:56+00:00

What men say and what men go for is very different. Many when talking about the ideal woman will describe a peta Jensen or Margot Robbie lookalike, doesn't mean they won't find a regular Jane attractive.

Also it depends on the options the guy has, or what he sees around. Younger guys tend to have higher standards, but regardless of age I think men have a higher tendency to settle and find attractive many types of women.

qantuum · 2019-10-25T06:48:55+00:00

depends on what social evidence you want to exhibit at your arm I guess?

so logically, guys who prefer emotion and sensuality over being popular in their social circle would be far less picky, as long as their woman allows them good sexy time.

imho.

[deleted] · 2019-10-25T07:31:17+00:00

Yo I replied pretty much that to the thread.

That is my baseline for attention. I have preferences on top of that (I said this on that thread too) but regardless if a woman is physically fit with a nice face etc I will find her attractive.

And yes guys have always been that. At least I have a hard time believing they weren't and don't see why not.

[deleted] · 2019-10-25T08:07:19+00:00

If you are starving you don't care how the bread actually tastes, as long as your stomach stops hurting so much.

Eastuss · 2019-10-25T08:28:25+00:00

Some people here pretend that men's standards are so ridiculously low that they would fuck other men if nothing else was available (like in prison)

I wouldn't go up to that, but yeah men's standards are that much basic. You need a lot to "impress them", but you don't need a lot to be commitment material.

bpnoy3 · 2019-10-25T10:24:15+00:00

This is general view of men for sure. However, men do learn after being in a relationship on what they do like and dislike. The appearance is an instinctual reaction but ultimately the heart determines long term partner.

Single_gay_mom · 2019-10-25T10:39:58+00:00

Yeah. Men's taste in women have kinda been defined by social media and stereotypes. People think because we follow big booty bitches on Instagram, that must be all we are looking for?! It's not. Out of all the girls that I've ever liked, none of them was curvy or perfect in any way. Even the fact that we want small women is strongly dependent on the person. Often it's just about being bigger than the other person. We are all just looking for a girl that's nice to us and possibly has a cute face and a healthy body. About women's taste in men, it definitely seems to be more picky and judgemental. It seems that whenever men talk negatively about features of the female body it's feeding insecurities, but whenever women comment on men's it's somehow okay?

SILENTSAM69 · 2019-10-25T12:03:51+00:00

Men have always had basic tastes. The things is that women compete. Most of the societal pressure on women to look a certain way comes from women. Men have very little to do with the pressures women feel to look good. The only thing men do is find women attractive, and sometimes they find another woman more attractive.

Personally I like a woman to be short, meaning 5'8 and shorter. I am 6'4" so it's easy for me to think you are short. A pretty face, but please not a lot of makeup. Red hair is preferred. Hmm, that's about it.

Zippo-Cat · 2019-10-25T13:26:48+00:00

Has most men's taste in women always been this simple and bare minimal?

Yes and no. Humans are polygynous, so normally alpha males have harems. This means women are picky(to only go for alphas) and men are not(to fuck all of the harem) Hovewer, there is still a competition among women themselves as to who will get the alpha's dick.

So yeah, men are not picky, but women still compete with one another as to who looks better because biology. Then they will blame men for it because feminism lmao

RahLyt · 2019-10-25T14:15:36+00:00

If there was no social stigma I would fuck every girl around my age above a 5/10 Would I date them all, hell no.

SootyBlueGlass · 2019-10-24T23:07:12+00:00

Yea ngl I'm well fussy when it comes to dating

Sea_Safer · 2019-10-24T23:07:18+00:00

It has always been this basic. I've always felt this way even when I was a teen and had no idea what the rest of society and the dating market was like.

LotBuilder · 2019-10-24T23:13:14+00:00

Depends on the guy. I am quite particular as to what floats my boat. I wish I had broader tastes but it does make things easy to be so cut and dried.

analt223 · 2019-10-25T14:00:24+00:00

The vast majority of men are obsolete, been trending this way for decades but really ramped up in the social media age. With the exception of the shrinking number of men in the top tier who now have it even better than they already did.

ifelsedowhile · 2019-10-24T21:55:42+00:00

betas have basic tastes, alphas are pickier and that what counts for women as they seem to be oblivious to betas.

YveisGrey · 2019-10-25T11:37:10+00:00

Pretty sure its always been this way. Men are simple creatures.

Title	Has men's standards of desired attractiveness in women always been so basic?
Author	bubblepoppa6
Upvotes	94
Comments	299
Date	October 24, 2019 8:48 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/dmmj5v/has_mens_standards_of_desired_attractiveness_in/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/has-mens-standards-of-desired-attractiveness-in.292585 https://theredarchive.com/post/292585

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