Sexual Harassment training at my workplace

firex726 · 2012-02-22T12:48:41+00:00

[permanently deleted]

moderndaycassiusclay · 2012-02-22T13:15:07+00:00

The women in my office use the most sexual innuendo and crude language of anyone. It's downright uncomfortable at times.

PellagiusTheSane · 2012-02-22T15:35:26+00:00

I guess that's only for men. Back when I worked at a female dominated office, I've been subjected to what women would call harassment and sexual discrimination. The assistant director of the whole building (female) has called me handsome and good looking multiple times, I've had a supervisor tell me and another male co-worker that you can't put two men in the same room and get anything worth a damn out. This same supervisor used to always be negative about men in the open.

I've also been accused of "charming" my female co-workers just by smiling at them because I wanted them to do my work (never happened). I was always made to carry stuff by my supervisors because I am a male (their words). I guess it's not wrong if a woman does it.

omgsnacks · 2012-02-22T15:12:01+00:00

There's this real peach where I work that's figured out that the company is a large cash pinata when it comes to lawsuits pertaining sexual harassment. Complain and profit while the "guilty" party gets fired or relocated. From my understanding, she has even filed suits against men she was having sexual relationships with on company property during her shifts. Those guys are no longer with the company while she sits there acting innocent.

BinaryShadow · 2012-02-22T16:03:13+00:00

In the early 1990's when these laws came in the women in my place of work said exaclty what your saying.

It drove a wedge. Now my workplace is almost all female.

It's a hostile environment for men, as is the entire anglosphere.

It is not like that elsewhere.

Travel, and learn what your being brainwashed about.

HolyCounsel · 2012-02-22T16:30:22+00:00

I was friends with the head of IT, and the two of us were discussing the graphic novel he was helping to produce. He pulled out a copy to show me - pretty raunchy stuff.

Along came the office busybody, who asked what we were talking about. We explained what it was, and warned her again when she asked to see it. She said she was ok with that but when we handed her the book, she immediately got a disgusted look, tossed it, and left.

And then came our trips to HR. I was tossed from my consulting job (no biggie), and my friend quickly grabbed another IT job (late 90's was good for people in our field). The company got to keep the whiny secretary. Nicely done!

masuabie · 2012-02-22T15:29:46+00:00

I agree with this post. I work as a software developer. Twice a day, all of the male devs (all of us but one) go outside and walk around for 15 minutes. We don't invite the female one (who I will refer to as C), because we want to speak freely on the walk and don't want to risk C getting offended and reporting someone to HR.

AnonTheAnonymous · 2012-02-22T14:29:33+00:00

Sad that this is what it's come to.

And women wonder why they often feel excluded in the workplace. It's not because your male co-workers are sexist, ladies. It's because they are justifiably terrified of you!

And then they complain to management that they feel ostracized, which is also sexual harassment. It's an impossible double-bind for many men in the workplace.

Talk to women: get fired for sexual harassment.
Don't talk to women: get fired for sexual harassment.

It should be noted that sexual harassment laws aren't directly responsible for this hysterical view of workplace gender relations. Companies are so fearful of lawsuits that they push extreme sexual harassment policies that go well above and beyond what's actually required by law.

Some of these policies are so extreme and draconian that they create what amounts to a hostile work environment for men. We need to start suing companies if we're let go for some stupid nonsense like this. Arguing sex discrimination and a hostile work environment. That's the only way we'll see change.

mphil5947 · 2012-02-22T18:13:58+00:00

I was sitting in my break room one afternoon, eating lunch and sitting across from another man. There were four women sitting on the other half of the table, chatting it up (volume control was all but nonexistant) and they started making innuendo about vibrators and dildos, one of them going so far as to blatantly mention that a "blacker model" would more sufficiently "do it for 'em" (I work with classy folk) The man looked at me and, before putting his newspaper back up, said "it's like we're not even here." And I said "If we start talking like that, we might not be."

Lothrazar · 2012-02-22T16:10:35+00:00

I bet most of those women arent happy.

A few of them ruined it for everyone.

Hydris · 2012-02-22T16:33:48+00:00

Follow these rules and you can't be fired for Sexual Harassment. Instead you can be fired for Sexual Discrimination.

MendedSlinky · 2012-02-22T19:00:52+00:00

It's only sexual harassment if you do it. This is how it was in the army, and even in college this rule applies.

I have seen and been part of the same scenario you presented plenty of times, and often enough the woman takes the change in the vibe of the room of men as ,"Oh, they must be talking about me!" (insert rage face)

Then, you can guess where that could create a problem.

I've had a woman grab my butt, and when I responded negatively she told me to not "get my panties in a bunch."

It, apparently didn't fall under sexual harassment, as I was told that that shouldn't bother me because I am a man.

AustinBarnes · 2012-02-22T13:31:21+00:00

It really seems like women are their own worst enemy when trying to break into typically male dominated industries. Feminism has society so wound up over sexual harassment that it is simply safer to not bother interacting with females in the work place (unless necessary). As a result females feel that they are unwelcome.

If women stopped abusing the victim card I am sure they would find that guys would be more open to including them in non-work related discussions. As a result all the issues about them feeling unwelcome would go away.

moderndaycassiusclay · 2012-02-22T14:45:15+00:00

I used to work at Pier 1 in the stock room, which is considered a whole separate part of the store. We have our own manager, our own rules, and uniforms etc. My manager was a lady named Betsy. I'm a pretty regular person so while I was working there every day around noon I would use the bathroom to take a shit. I like to take my time when I'm taming the chocolate dragon cause I don't want to blow an o-ring or have a stroke so I'm usually in there at least ten to fifteen minutes, and Betsy made a comment to me that it was OBVIOUS to her that I was actually JACKING OFF, and that the next time I took more than five minutes to use the bathroom she would fire me. So obviously that's not right because one, what the fuck she just called me out saying I was masturbating in the bathroom when not only is it untrue it doesn't matter anyways, and two I'm legally entitled to take as long as a fucking bathroom break as I need. So I went to the store manager and told her what happened. She said that Betsy was in charge and what she said was final. I was totally dumbfounded. If our roles had been reversed and it had been a male manager accusing a female associate of masturbating, there would have been a law suit, or at least an out of court settlement if she had complained. All I was asking for was the legal rights I'M ALREADY FUCKING ENTITLED TO and they told me to fuck myself. Obviously I quit. One of my friends still works there and he said that Betsy has been promoted and is now the store manager and she has made it a rule that anyone who takes more than five minutes on a bathroom break gets written up.

skooma714 · 2012-02-22T16:51:31+00:00

Don't make eye contact with the opposite sex... while walking down the halls, in the break rooms, etc. (He cited a man who got fired because a woman thought he was "leering at her" when she walked down the halls)

Avert your gaze peasant! The Princess is coming through!

osufan765 · 2012-02-22T15:07:32+00:00

I just want to address this (for both genders)

Restaurants are sexual harrassment free zones

that is all.

PierceHarlan · 2012-02-22T14:22:53+00:00

It's as if we have comingled two warring species.

How sad that you workplace has adopted what can only be viewed as a hysterical view of gender relations. The law does not require these drastic inanities, contrary to what many people believe. Unfortuntately, human relations departments are so fearful of lawsuits they enact these draconian, soul-sucking rules that make the workday feel strained and formal, as if you are in a permanent state of visiting royalty.

With that said, I do think it is a significant problem that young women are rarely mentored by older men because of the latter's fears of being falsely accused of sex acts. I run False Rape Society, and I can tell you that the possibility of such accusations being lodged is generally slim, but it is real. And I can sympathize with a 55-year-old guy who has worked hard to get where he is and who figures, "why should I risk the aggravation when it could destroy my life?"

Dexter77 · 2012-02-22T14:47:37+00:00

Just to remember, this applies only to men. I work with a few dozen nurses and they definitely are not afraid to express their lust. The company parties are the worst but even during normal office hours they may joke about wanting me to sit on their lap or comment how nice my ass is. And they're not the pretty young nurses, but middle aged, fat and ugly ones who I couldn't be less attracted to.

firex726 · 2012-02-22T14:38:06+00:00

As a sales person, those three rules are effectively contrary to my whole job, particularly when dealing with clients.

scotty5x5 · 2012-02-22T15:17:34+00:00

Doesn't matter we had two troll girls who filed and the whole male office got burned. Went through investigations, interrogations, denials, one guy was transferred and the rest of us who were falsely implicated still had to endure a years worth of "classes". What a mess. About a year later these women had moved on, I got the ringleaders address and mailed a pair of womens perfumed panties to the womans husband with a big lipstick kiss on the package. Many happy returns!

AryoBarzan · 2012-02-22T20:41:32+00:00

It's ridiculous how we get chastised for our behavior when feminists have made a work environment so hostile. Oh no, don't shake a woman's hand too long, you don't want to offend her!

2012-02-22T22:42:19+00:00

a young woman was just fired from my office because she was taking way too much time off each day (leaving early, arriving late), and she also took vacation days without telling anybody in the company. this woman talked a lot with another woman in the office who is my close friend, and it turns out that this fired woman was considering making up sexual harassment charges against her original manager in order to max out her severance deal (she was transferred to another department because her first manager couldn't stand her terrible work ethic). my company gave her 2 months severance pay to avoid any sexual harassment/discrimination lawsuits, all of which would have been completely fraudulent. also, my friend tells me that this woman honestly believed that the company was discriminating against her, which is utterly false. if any man in the office had skipped out on hours like she had, he would have been fired months more quickly. her sense of entitlement and victimhood was unreal, and it seems like the result of a hyper-feminist upbringing, unfortunately. she'll never be accountable for her actions; to her, her failings will always be the fault of 'the patriarchy' keeping her down. companies and individuals have a lot to fear from womens' sexual harassment/discrimination accusations, even if they can be easily proven false.

DoorKnob22 · 2012-02-22T22:58:15+00:00

I'm starting see the irony in all this avoidance of the opposite sex.

"I FEEL LEFT OUT NOW!"

seddition · 2012-02-22T19:31:51+00:00

[permanently deleted]

DarthOvious · 2012-02-22T17:12:01+00:00

It was like a black curtain had been dropped over everyone. All of us got quiet, and did our jobs without looking up.

Soon to be added number 4 in the list. No ignoring women, no uncomfortable silences around women, etc,etc.

biglebowski55 · 2012-02-22T12:51:59+00:00

It's not all our fault. As a 'woman in the workplace,' I've had the joy of taking sexual harassment training for a state job. This included hours of talking about respectful wording, and pretty clearly saying DON'T TOUCH ANYONE WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION (especially true because I was working with vulnerable populations, institutionalized persons). With every sentence, the older man sitting next to me, who'd I'd never met before, would touch me, often with his hand on my thigh, and say something like, "That's right. We know how bad that can be. Right, honey?" It's sad that sexual harassment has been overblown, and it's sad that it's presented as something that only happens to one gender from the other, but unfortunately, there are still people who don't get the most basic principles when they're being taught them to their faces.

Chowley_1 · 2012-02-22T16:20:18+00:00

I can't wait until we all become emotionless automatons, for fear of not being politically correct

2012-02-22T17:42:01+00:00

It should be noted that not all women or men for that matter are out to swing the sexual harassment ax. It's been my experience that it is only one or two individuals causing issues at any job. Everyone is afraid to fire that person because of fears of some far flung accusations followed with a wrongful dismissal suit. we have all seen it "I worked there for XX years and I have been sexually harassed for the whole time, now I want money". Some use it as a tool to gain advancement in a job, a way to get out of a bad situation they created or a way to get back at someone. I have seen some horrendous abuses of "sexual harassment policy". Personally I think that Sexual Harassment talks have gotten out of hand when both men and women are told not to talk or look at each other. It seems that everything offends someone and when people see $$ they will find stuff that they "find" offensive.

neilmcc · 2012-02-23T00:07:32+00:00

Cultural marxism- divide and conquer.

Aavagadrro · 2012-02-22T13:48:07+00:00

That sums up what I had to do in the military. I was counseled for telling one female in my unit 'you look nice today' because I didnt look good enough to talk to her. Overseas that happens more, they get hit on so much even the fat ugly ones think they are super special. We called it "Golden Pussy Syndrome" and it was worse in the desert.

Males do it too. I had a female NCO who augmented my duty section when we were incredibly busy. Her and I got along great, we had a banter we did together and she was married, while I was engaged. The jesus freak pentecostal guy in my section didnt like it, so he had us separated and I had to go for counseling yet again.

I learned not to talk to females unless I absolutely had to. I had to make them dislike me if they seemed to be friendly, and I sure as hell didnt tell them any jokes. If it wasnt an officer I needed to salute or address in a professional manner, then she was ignored. It got to the point where people thought I was gay, because I wouldnt even look at women in uniform.

cuteman · 2012-02-22T19:31:45+00:00

The woman never said anything, but I'm sure she felt uncomfortable walking into a room of guys who were clearly having a good time, then everyone shuts up as soon as she walked in.

Everyone fired when the woman reports the room went silent when SHE walked in. The only explaination? They were making crude and sexually harassing remarks about her.

DavidByron · 2012-02-22T23:33:31+00:00

Of course the irony here is that if people obeyed the rules suggested by the sexual harassment guy then the company would be sexually harassing all men in the company AND all women in the company because sexual harassment is defined as discrimination creating a hostile work environment. It is clear the teacher was suggesting sex discrimination (in that only men were told to do stuff) and that the result was an extremely hostile environment for men ... AND for women.

Tylenol__Jones · 2012-02-22T15:28:11+00:00

Here we see a woman in its natural habitat. You must be careful not to make eye contact with it, you must not touch it, and you certainly must not joke with it no matter how clean you think the joke is. Women are delicate, skittish, and neurotic creatures. Very, very easy to startle.

And if you startle it you get fucking fired.

absolutezero1287 · 2012-02-23T01:14:44+00:00

That's pretty sad. I have plenty of good female friends that enjoy a dirty joke as much as the next guy. Fuck everything about this.

keith_weaver · 2012-02-23T02:45:46+00:00

I will never become rich at my job, but I own the place and it's just me and my dad. If I sexually harass my employees, my problems are way worse than what you guys have.

TheBruno · 2012-02-23T04:27:42+00:00

I had one boss that would always get pissed when everyone stopped talking when she came around. She'd accuse us of talking about every kind of fucked up topic, which we never were. It wasn't because she was a woman though, she was just a horrible fucking boss and a person we all hated.

In other jobs I had serious cases of sexual harrassment. I've been flirted with, hit on, asked "how big I was" and one woman, much older than I was at the time (I was 20) asked what I looked like during sex. Nice.

anonymouslemming · 2012-02-22T17:27:38+00:00

That's mostly an American problem though. In the civilised world, we have some employee protections, and can't be fired without cause.

Sure, we can be skipped over for promotion, we can be let go in the next round of downsizing, but my boss can't just walk up to me and have me leave the building.

SarahC · 2012-02-22T17:00:37+00:00

Wtf? I'm a girl and I would never have proposed this! WTF? What actually is this? Don't tell jokes? I only hang out with guys.

CDchrysalis · 2012-02-22T15:57:33+00:00

If this is common, then I feel pretty fortunate to work at a place with much more relaxed and gender neutral guidelines.

Snapperhead · 2012-02-22T17:29:59+00:00

Sexual harassment laws are fairly limited in their scope: the victim must prove a monetary loss or a debilitating psychological injury in order to be taken seriously by anyone. It is the implementation and enforcement policy of these companies that are the problem.

2012-02-23T01:30:12+00:00

At my job they told us we were going to a seminar called "Respect in the workplace". The second email called it a "Harassment in the workplace" seminar. The third email called it a "Sexual Harassment in the workplace" seminar. When we finally got there it was a 45 minute tirade about how men need to learn not to sexually abuse/harass women. The speaker mentioned it was technically possible for a woman to sexually harass a man, but that was so unlikely that they weren't going to mention it beyond that.

JustOneVote · 2012-07-21T18:23:26+00:00

Those three points he mentioned are bogus, and whoever trained you was a moron. Yeah, there might be one or two extreme cases where a guy got fired for shaking hands, but that's not representative of how women react and how harassment claims are handled. I joke with, shake hands with, and make eye contact with female coworkers all the time. I can't imagine meeting a someone and not shaking her hand. What do you do when a woman says "hey I'm Sarah," and sticks out her hand?

I drink with them after work, and I eat lunch with them, and so does every other guy in the office. We don't treat the women like lepers; they don't freak out about every off-color joke that we make.

It's not like I walk around the office without a filter, either, but I just don't act like I'm hanging with my buddies watching football in the mancave.

chterrible · 2012-02-22T17:01:46+00:00

I'm an HR manager and give sexual harassment classes all of the time. Your guy went a bit over the top with it. I completely agree and understand that companies are overly afraid of the issue these days and take it too far, but they have to be. They can be held liable and made to pay large sums for certain negligence toward the issue. However, the issue really is more common sense and people just get it wrong from being overly sensitive.

There are 2 forms of sexual harassment. Quid pro Quo and Hostile work environment. Quid pro quo (this for that) is pretty specific and only really can be used when people have a certain level of power over another's job. It's serious the first time it happens. The second kind that has more to do with peers is not as serious the first time it happens (baring something serious like rape or indecent exposure).

Basically, nothing is (hostile) harassment until it is made known to you that a specific behavior is bothersome to another specific individual(s) and you insist on continuing to do it around that specific person or group. When I have to let someone know that a behavior is unwanted (legally that's all it requires is that a behavior is unwanted) If I know that no major harm was meant by the person who did it, I take extra time letting them know that it doesn't mean they are bad, we don't really have an issue, they do just need to watch this behavior or it will become an issue. Please don't dwell on it or take it as an insult...please just watch this for the sake of all involved. Carry on being yourself. Being let known that something has bothered someone, should be viewed as informative and nothing else, and it's not really a problem until you insist on repeating something you have been asked specifically to stop.

It should be pretty common sense and believe me, necessary. Trust me, harassment is a real issue, it's rampant, it has made people's working lives hell (men and women) and it does need certain levels of enforcement. Companies just get overly sensitive to it all, and don't spend much time worrying about the nuances to make life livable for normal people. They just don't want a lawsuit and make the policy extreme....partially because employees never understand nuances either.

TL;DR Your harassment trainer is an idiot, it's serious, but it's not that serious.

Liverotto · 2012-02-22T17:21:46+00:00

We don't ask them to join us for lunch

THAT'S SEXUAL HARASSMENT

We try not to go to them for assistance with projects

THAT'S SEXUAL HARASSMENT

Basically try to alienate them as much as possible

THAT'S SEXUAL HARASSMENT

Messiah · 2012-02-22T20:25:39+00:00

Don't make eye contact with the opposite sex.

Thats kind of fucking rude, no?

2012-02-22T23:46:27+00:00

Guess what?

Purposefully ignoring a woman is sexual harassment as well.

Fucked up? Yep.

Enjoy.

Perhaps they should mandate that men have to look in a coworker's eyes if directed at, but to keep their heads when they initiate conversations. All for a safe work environment.

JohnnyDrama68 · 2012-02-22T16:15:29+00:00

I had a short conversation with a female superior one time about 6-7 yrs ago. Obviously I don't remember the exact contect or every word but the one sentence I remember clear as if it were yesterday.

Her: I didn't know you rode a motorcycle?

Me: Yeah, I have for years.

Her: I love hot guys on bikes

Me: Um Ok well I gotta get back to work.

I blew it off and about 3 months later I was "let go" due to budget cuts.

In hindsight I probably should have reported it to HR. Since I am pretty laid back, I just let it go. I figured no reason to ruin her career or get her in trouble over what might have been a fairly innocent comment.

If the same thing happened today, I would report it just to cover my ass.

lockedge · 2012-02-22T16:46:29+00:00

I figure that sometimes business get far too in detail about this stuff.

I mean, a lot of it is to understand even without any 'training'. Don't flirt with or make innuendo towards another worker unless you're 100% sure they're going to accept it well. If they don't accept it well, apologize, and never do it again.

Don't make physical contact without consent. If the consensual physical contact is sexual in nature, wait until you're apart from the workplace.

Don't insist on occupying another' personal space. Don't intimidate through constantly staring at them.

Jokes are fine so long as they are not made to target or point out individuals at the workplace, or if they're blatantly offensive. There are plenty of non-abrasive jokes out there. If you feel the need to tell these jokes, ensure they're consensual and done over a private medium, or in a private setting.

There. Pretty easy, and allows for flexibility. I kind of dislike rules that are 100% polarized like these.

haoest · 2012-02-22T23:22:43+00:00

It's simply companies don't want to hold the liability of paying for any related damage. After having provided the training sessions, they can just tell the plaintiff lawyers to fuck off. The more ridiculous their rules, the worse it may indicate the women are abusing the system. It's a reflection of reality. Sexual harassment probably happens anyways from people higher in the hierarchy to their lower subordinate, but the rules are a reminder to people to not to do anything they are not sure of.

Companies probably don't care if you are happy, but do care if you become a liability.

Unenjoyed · 2012-02-22T23:31:05+00:00

You work at Crazy Co. Leave before you become socially maimed.

2012-02-22T15:14:14+00:00

The fact that they have warped my guidelines into preventing fun saddens me.

johnny_gunn · 2012-02-22T22:59:32+00:00

So, ladies of the work place, I hope you're happy!

No need to make yourself sound like an asshole in an otherwise reasonably-worded post. This is not the fault of "ladies of the work place", it's the fault of idiots (of both genders) who employ and perpetuate stupid zero-tolerance policies.

CDchrysalis · 2012-02-22T22:06:34+00:00

"Ladies of the workplace, I hope you're happy!"

What the actual fuck?

It's not MY fault you work at a ridiculous place of employment.

My office isn't like that at all, we tell off color jokes and shake hands and pat backs and even give hugs if the situation calls for it.

We're normal fucking people. Don't blame this bullshit on women. You're just as bad as women who blanket-blame you men for things (and cause you to need a subreddit called "men's rights")

With all due respect, fuck you for that comment. It makes you quite the hypocrite.

Perhaps you meant "raging feminazi"?

edit: and I was even sexually harassed at a previous place of employment. I didn't expect to be coddled then, and I don't now. (dude tried to feel me up, he was 2+ levels higher than me and after I turned him down, he tried to get me fired - my boss had my back, I didn't press charges)

Nobody_special · 2012-02-22T14:59:50+00:00

I hope they are happy too.

jaminjer · 2012-02-23T21:46:14+00:00

Our society is dominated by the overly offended. It's against how men operate. We are being treated like children and its offensive....then we're supposed to not be offended it! It's not good for ANYONE - we need common sense to rule; the spirit of the law.

gnimsh · 2012-02-22T13:03:34+00:00

I'm the only guy on my team and just 2days ago I cracked a that's what she said joke. It was a hit! My coworkers understand my humor well enough but I still wouldn't say this to someone I don't know well.

2012-02-22T23:16:25+00:00

Oh thanks. We really like sucking the joy out of a man's day with his buddies at work.

-The Ladies.

DukeOfCrydee · 2012-02-22T17:20:28+00:00

Are you implying women need to stop working or that they need to stop being such pussies while working?

NiceGuysSTFU · 2012-02-22T20:21:15+00:00

Wow, good for you, you sound like a huge asshole!

The woman never said anything, but I'm sure she felt uncomfortable walking into a room of guys who were clearly having a good time, then everyone shuts up as soon as she walked in.

So I guess that's what the whole sexual harassment culture has become now in the work place. Men have fun and enjoy work as long as women aren't around. We don't ask them to join us for lunch, we try not to go to them for assistance with projects, and basically try to alienate them as much as possible, because we need our jobs to support our families.

mugsnj · 2012-02-22T16:48:39+00:00

and basically try to alienate them as much as possible, because we need our jobs to support our families.

That's a pretty childish and unprofessional way to act at work. You can be sure to avoid any sexual harassment issues by following the guidelines you listed, but you don't need to follow those guidelines to avoid sexual harassment claims. You need only to use some common sense and have some social skills.

TotesRedonk · 2012-02-22T13:01:31+00:00

Oi dickhead, don't blame women for the stupid backwards policies at your place of work. Man up and make a complaint about it or something.

Title	Sexual Harassment training at my workplace
Author	Dr_dad
Upvotes	421
Comments	443
Date	February 22, 2012 12:24 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/q0tob/sexual_harassment_training_at_my_workplace/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/sexual-harassment-training-at-my-workplace.1027250 https://theredarchive.com/post/1027250

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