I am thoroughly confused by the current sexual landscape.

gntlbastard · 2024-01-12T14:38:16+00:00

You are forgetting that most of what you have stated is in context to western men and women. It's a tiny portion of the global population - most of the world does not operate by these standards, for instance look at the Muslim word and China even parts of India - places where marriages are still arranged by families and are done not out of the western concept of love but for duty to ones family and preserving wealth.

raldabos · 2024-01-11T22:52:57+00:00

Yes, women settling and having relationships with men who they dislike due to social pressure is a common thing (https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-survey-says--women-are-less-happy-with-their-relationships-than-men-are-20150714-gibxpj.html), yes promiscous women exist, yes men approaching women is seen as negatively. Yes about 60% of people participate in casual sex (https://sexualalpha.com/hookup-culture-statistics/). No, casual sex isnt "more common than ever"(https://www.rutgers.edu/news/why-are-young-adults-having-less-casual-sex). The 8.1 billion population is expected to decline in about 100 years.

What are you so confused about? Do you think personal experiences invalidates other people with different experiences?

How is sex simultaneously something most of the human race was able to have but something that is placed on such a high pedestal, especially by males?

How is money the most common thing in planet earth, yet so many people are broke?

shonenhikada · 2024-01-12T08:01:44+00:00

" Despite all of this, with some nuance in between, we ended up at 8.1+ billion "

No social media

Women had less rights and depended on men for survival

Fathers use to select a woman's mate for her

Women use to be shamed for being single at a certain age and/or childless

No gender wars

More realistic standards.

_phe_nix_ · 2024-01-12T03:05:36+00:00

And yet the vast majority of people I know, both young and old, continue to do what they've always done. Date, marry, have kids.

Are things changing? Yes, but the way people talk here in this forum you'd think society has gone from 8/10 people dating and marrying down to 1/10 people dating and marrying. When it's probably more like 7.5/10 people are now dating and marrying instead if 8. It's a slight shift in our society that is way over blown in internet discussions.

Log off, touch grass, spend time in the real world ffs

TheImmortalBantha · 2024-01-11T23:53:55+00:00

The West is waning.

Sea_Roll_2099 · 2024-01-12T00:07:12+00:00

It all aligns when you realise two things.

Marriage is dead. We live in the time of the harem.

Women spend their 20s being involuntarily part of an attractive man's harem. They wade from harem to harem with maybe a few stable, lower value boyfriends in between.

The men who possess these harems are having more sex than has ever been possible. These are the men getting 100+ matches a week on tinder.

50% of the women decide to leave the harem at 30 and find a man on her level to marry and have kids with.

The other 50% delude themselves into thinking they'll eventually be the chosen concubine and die alone.

chocobolamo · 2024-01-12T15:20:19+00:00

Women and men are starting families together

men and women getting together does not change any of this. 63% of men are single aged 18-30 (family starting age) and you are trying to say that doesn't matter because 37% of men are pairing?!

Men seem to know enough about women to attract them

Attractive people don't need to know anything. Less attractive people need to learn more to compensate. Also, divorce rates are very high so although you may initially attract a woman 80% of divorces are initiated by women therefore 80% of men failed to attract the woman they were with long term.

How did we get here? social media. Social media and the internet has raised the bar for behaviors across the board. Whether thats in a relationship or irl. When women only see their favorite artists on instagram, follow attractive people ,see attractive men in media (unnatractive men aren't in media in general - most male actors are like the top 0.1% in apperance) it distorts what is considered normal.

For instance I was talking to a girl about people at walmart, and she said they were all fat and ugly. These were just average people that you run into. They've been stuck in their phone for so long that they don't know what real people look like any more.

PixelizedPlayer · 2024-01-11T23:35:42+00:00

Men are the ugly gender, women are the pretty gender

Remove makeup and science tends to find men and women are almost equal in attractiveness, women score only slightly above men in attractiveness averages.

Women artificially inflate their beauty. The equivalent of a guy flexing money to pretend hes wealthier than he is. But most men will stick with the girl once the make up is off anyway so the trick works and works well.

Special-Hyena1132 · 2024-01-11T23:46:09+00:00

You can't reduce the sexual habits of 8 billion people to a few pithy axioms, it doesn't begin to capture the complexity of life. Don''t worry about the big picture, because no one has a clear fix on it, and just focus on making yourself into an attractive potential mate.

RedPill_Dragon · 2024-01-12T00:08:03+00:00

Use your passport, find someone wonderful!

AidsVictim · 2024-01-11T23:51:36+00:00

Despite all of this, with some nuance in between, we ended up at 8.1+ billion. Im asking myself: if these things are true to varying degrees, how did we even get here? Is that because of men’s desire for women? Is it because men’s success is attractive enough to warrant procreation? How is sex simultaneously something most of the human race was able to have but something that is placed on such a high pedestal, especially by males?

It's confusing and contradictory because we're living in the middle of a major social sexual revolution (or collapse depending on your view).

However definite trends can be observed from looking at raw numbers - fewer people are getting married/forming families, they have fewer children, they have less successful/stable long term relationships, they're generally unhappier with their social-sexual outcomes and so on.

If you believe these trends will continue (and no one has ever presented strong arguments they won't) then the terminus is demographic collapse ala South Korea.

Soloandthewookiee · 2024-01-11T22:56:19+00:00

how did we even get here?

Because the "truths" that are peddled by dudes on social media (in particular on dating subs on Reddit) are wholesale horseshit. Women are not exclusively chasing the top 20% of men, it's just a cope made up by those men to explain why they're single.

Women are more financially independent than ever, which means they are less tolerant of shitty relationships. Likewise, developed countries will see a population decline as people have fewer kids (a well documented phenomenon that predates Tinder). Neither of these means the end of society. People have always gotten together and will continue to get together.

Maelas84 · 2024-01-12T13:06:22+00:00

ITs because people are listening too much to social media putting this garbage out there. Taking what you hear online as gospel is what creates posts like this and makes people think this bs is true and then convinces people to start acting this shit out.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-01-12T14:30:27+00:00

This, right here, is what they call information overload or “paralysis by analysis”

No matter what all the shit on the internet says. It still all boils down to.

“I like you- do you want to do stuff together”

And if she (or he) says yes then you go do some stuff together. And if they say no, you go ask someone else if THEY want to do stuff together.

And if doing the things together is enjoyable, you might want ti do it again. Or do more stuff.

That’s it. The ways and the hows might change with the times a bit, but it’s always been- one on one interaction.

BCRE8TVE · 2024-01-12T20:14:37+00:00

Yes but see, everything you said makes sense if you just assume that people are largely irrational and often do not always act in their own best self-interest, but often act in irrational ways to satisfy their short-term desires that can often have long-term negative consequences.

This is not just in dating either, this is just how humans are. We're basically hairless apes with caveman brains and god-like technology. This kind of mess is exactly what you'd expect to find under these conditions.

boom-wham-slam · 2024-01-12T00:52:03+00:00

I mean reproduction is decreasing drastically in modern countries. If we did things how they do in Africa things would work a little better.

So no 8b people is not proof modern dating is effectively continuing the human race.

Safinated · 2024-01-11T23:23:20+00:00

If you accept that humanity is diverse in our abilities and tendencies, you will not be confused — although you may be dismayed that there is no easy fix or solution

Makuta_Servaela · 2024-01-12T00:22:44+00:00

We got here because humans are horny, and because people who complain about these things on the internet are not generally the same people who are going out and getting laid or raising kids (because if they were, they wouldn't be here posting).

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2024-01-12T00:28:28+00:00

Most of these can be explained by the feminist theory of objectification and the male gaze. When you elevate (straight) male interests and perspectives, then you code beauty female (straight men call other men gross and are "gay" to suggest otherwise), you make women the object of desire and the trophy to be won. It's a knock on effect from a bad (and sexist) cultural design. This is the negative cost to men.

There may be some biology involved but I like to focus on the problems that can be fixed.

theReaders · 2024-01-11T23:27:43+00:00

-Men do find most women attractive

wrong, men refuse to acknowledge how they treat women they don't find attractive, so this sub is exclusively about the ones they do think are attractive

-An unattractive man can only dream of being with an attractive woman, and if it happens, it’s rare.

i have never met a woman who didn't have to brace her friends to show a picture of her boyfriend, culturally we have much lower standards for men than women in terms of what is deemed attractive.

-Women highly value things such as height, looks, status, something most men don’t have

no women don't highly value these things, though we often have them ourselves, yes most men don't have them

-Men pedestalize women. Some can’t even have a conversation with one without anxiety taking over and some speak of women as if they’re godly and not just human

Some men pedestalize women, some men can't have a conversation. This is true for women as well, but you'd never know it despite every guy here complaining women don't approach them.

-People of equal attractiveness are usually with each other. Average men are never with above average women, and vice versa.

Average men date above average women all the time. Most attractive women are with completely average looking men with few if any of the stereotypical 'alpha' traits, even money.

MattPayneWrestler · 2024-01-12T04:47:37+00:00

Men are actually the prettier gender. Women need all that hoards of face paint and fake everything to look pretty. Men are hot naturally with no need for face paint or fake stuff, as long as they stay in shape.

Lets list all the fake stuff attractive women need to be attractive: Mascara, Foundation, Blush, Lipstick, Eye liner, Fake lashes, Padded bras, Hair extensions , High heels

Fake stuff attractive men need to be attractive: Nothing! Were naturally hot!😁

Electronic_West_1831 · 2024-01-11T22:54:06+00:00

This is myth is the perfect metaphor for the “sexual landscape”:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus

It doesn’t make sense because there is no logic to it and trying to understand it is futile

Moist_Lion9975 · 2024-01-11T23:47:36+00:00

Your reasoning skills are not being well displayed here, we're at 8.1+ billion because we're a pos-industrial society, highest birthrates are found in developing countries in SEA and Subsaharian africa, most stuff discussed here only applies for urban western societies

Still_Succotash5012 · 2024-01-12T02:43:02+00:00

Your questions require a lot of explanation, but in summary, times have changed.

The fertility rate is rapidly falling in the West. This isn't the early 1900s anymore, where people were having 5-6 children, and would settle down and get married at an average age of 21. Average marriage age has now been pushed until around 30, and average children per woman has fallen to under replacement levels in many Western nations. Why do you think the US is pushing so hard for immigration? People aren't having babies.

Times necessarily have to get worse before they get better, and this is because the biological urge to have children and start families is most intense when there is the greatest risk to the survival of the species. It's no coincidence that the birth rate is falling in an age where so many say "there's too many people." That biological urge basically becomes dormant. Many women actually believe they are helping the species more by not forming relationships and having children. "We're killing the planet" and other such rationalizations.

FebruaryEightyNine · 2024-01-12T00:47:36+00:00

If there is one thing I cant deal with when it comes to redpillers is their refusal to admit they're actually talking about women are are 6-6.5/10+

However, in regards to this:

-An unattractive man can only dream of being with an attractive woman, and if it happens, it’s rare.

This is key. Redpillers obsess with looks, height, wealth, status...because these are all the things needed to obtain ATTRACTIVE women. This is the key differentiator. The majority of women are FUCKABLE to most men, but dateable? Thats another matter entirely. Mens standards aren't actually that low at all. Especially younger men.

No_Constant7907 · 2024-01-11T23:00:25+00:00

Men are the ugly gender, women are the pretty gender

Nah. Men are the do things gender and women are the produce things gender.

Women are attractive for their implied ability to bear children and remain fertile.

Men are attractive for their implied ability to perform demanding feats.

Different metrics for, and components of attraction. What's ugly and pretty depends entirely on how you're defining these things.

Women don’t find an overwhelmingly majority of men attractive

Women have a higher standard of partner for who they're willing to engage in sexual intercourse with. usually women will tend to only have sex with men if they see some form of possible relationship with them in the future.

Men do not have the LTR prerequisite for who they have sex with. This creates a necessary supply and demand disparity in the sexual marketplace. It doesn't necessarily apply to the relationship marketplace.

-Men do find most women attractive No, men will sleep with still a minority of women on average. Most men will be willing to sleep with 20-40% of women they know, and most women will be willing to sleep with only around 10% of men they know. (In ideal circumstances)

An unattractive man can only dream of being with an attractive woman, and if it happens, it’s rare.

This is actually more common than the opposite, because women value looks less than men do on average. (Men perform feats to be attractive. You don't have to have 40 inch vertical. You can be respected in the community instead. As a woman, communal respect in your field isn't gonna increase your level of attractiveness nearly as much as it would for a man.)

Men pedestalize women. Some can’t even have a conversation with one without anxiety taking over and some speak of women as if they’re godly and not just human

It's more of an opposite issue. Men have higher rates of narcissism and undeserved confidence. Women are naturally far more anxious, and likely to report they're unwilling to date someone for safety concerns for example.

Generally speaking, men are pursuing women more than the other way around

Sex vs relationships

Women are highly selective of their men

You should be highly selective of anyone you get into a LTR with.

Men are far more lonely than women, sexually and romantically

More lonely, but don't have lower rates of friendship or relationships. This is a data point based on feelings not facts. It's likely a biological function of men, as men gravitate towards lovelier lifestyles and spend less time with other humans than women do.

Women and men engage in sex and relationships at an identical rate. Obviously. Men feeling less sexually satisfied is a function of biology, not reality.

Most women are unattainable for most men

Most men are unattainable for most women. Most people have to work very hard for a LTR to become a possibility. You have to be within a certain age range of one another, within a give attraction range, and within a given social chemistry range as well. This is only going to be a small minority of the people of the opposite sex you interact with. Regardless of if you're a man or woman.

AceOfSpadesGymBro3 · 2024-01-12T03:17:29+00:00

You don't get it man! We got to 8 Bil because men were mass raping women who found them repulsive and unattractive. Women had to settle! But somehow this has all changed only in the last 10 years (around the time most PPD users have gone through puberty). Before that it was super different although none of them have been alive to have dated in the past. But yeah! It was one huge rape orgy. Men raped and raped and raped or women simply settled for the richest beta and fucked him out of pity or because he could threaten to throw her on the street without food.

Yes, all of this happened and is totally true.

full_brick_package · 2024-01-11T23:52:28+00:00

First off, I'm the most outspoken man alive. I'm for ending commitments, raising children as a village and procreating less. I think casual sex should be the default, as common as a hug or handshake with a stranger.

We can cure, treat, prevent, vaccinate against every sexually transmitted disease now. We can do the same with pregnancy.

So all we have are emotional hangups and insecurity.

I've resolved to the fact, however that the hangups are so severe in the west that I'm going to end up in Asia "touring" to be happy. These monogamous commitments that are so widely expected disgust me.

About that though, generally women want romantic commitment more than the men in this society. Although I feel men have become more feminized in that they've regressed to tradition and are now pursuing it just as much.

Whatever, you all, from my perspective, must suffer from a parasite or brain rot to still think so traditionally or puritanically about sex and relationships in this era.

Just my take.

obviousredflag · 2024-01-12T11:14:48+00:00

As always with the contradictions people see, the facts apply to different people so they are not contradictions at all. Most people do not have issues at all with dating, sex, long term relationships, etc.

Even during the covid years of 2020 and 2021, people aged 19-34 reported pretty regular sex. Of the few percentages who didn't have sex or just once, it's unlikely that most of them did so because they couldn't have sex. About half the population wants to have sex only in committed relationships (sociosexually restricted) and it's absolutely normal to go a year or more without being in a relationship in this age group.

Posters in this sub overwhelmingly seem to belong in the "forever alone" group of the population, in the terminally online, the autistic, the socially isolated, etc. which only makes up a sub 10%, more likely a ~5% part of the population. The reasons for their "forever aloneness" is not "the current dating situation" but their personal situation. But especially in here, they paint a picutre of "the average guy" sharing their situation, which just isnt' true. The average guy is doing fine.

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Spyro7x3 · 2024-01-12T06:36:00+00:00

The fact this while b*tch (world) is going down is reason to celebrate why try to understand something that is dying?

SteveSan82 · 2024-01-11T23:34:55+00:00

If you want to get women, cold approach

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kkkan2020 · 2024-01-11T23:38:25+00:00

Humans are very contradictory creatures

No-Calligrapher-3630 · 2024-01-12T11:09:00+00:00

Also women are whores who give it up to a string loads of guys, despite most of them not being attractive???

Substantial_Video560 · 2024-01-12T14:44:21+00:00

I entirely understand but don't wish to be involved with it.

RubyDiscus · 2024-01-13T07:26:37+00:00

A lot of women may be having casual sex and relationships (due to horniness and liking attention etc) but then stay with that guy because of unplanned pregnancy. Even if he is unsatisfactory in some or a lot of ways 40-50% of pregnancies are unplanned in my country (very progressive country)

Ayaka_Simp_ · 2024-01-13T15:27:58+00:00

Rape. Poverty. Lack of contraception. Lack of education.

Title	I am thoroughly confused by the current sexual landscape.
Author	BridgmansBiggestFan
Upvotes	41
Comments	248
Date	January 11, 2024 10:43 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/194ev1t/i_am_thoroughly_confused_by_the_current_sexual/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/i-am-thoroughly-confused-by-the-current-sexual.1242761 https://theredarchive.com/post/1242761

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