What are your guys views on "entitlement" of sex in marriage?

ArmariumEspada · 2024-01-13T16:49:37+00:00

Sex is a need for married women as well, not just married men. And almost nobody wants “obligation” sex. No sex would be preferable for most.

punapearebane · 2024-01-13T16:57:15+00:00

If a relationship is healthy and both sides needs are met, mutually, sex comes naturally.

Instead of “demanding” she meet your needs maybe communicate like adults and figure out why her sex drive has dropped. Stress is a big factor usually.

A relationship is teamwork not a some sort of a job.

TreyLoka · 2024-01-13T16:41:40+00:00

Sex isn’t owed to anyone, you have to inspire it in the other.

zaqariah9999 · 2024-01-13T16:40:43+00:00

The way ya'll talk about sex make it sound exhausting and not fun to have it with you. Like it's totally normal to turn it down every once in a while because life but if you're not getting any sex there's a bigger problem here. And if a woman reject her husband everytime then same thing, ya'll have a bigger problem. But the way you're talking about sex makes it sound like something wife gives to her huband than something they do together which is really off putting and make it sound like the problem is something else other than sex.

Fabulous_HonestTea · 2024-01-13T16:52:07+00:00

Do wife have some kind of obligation to make sex easier for her husband?

No.

If she were actually attracted to you, it wouldn’t be an issue. There’s nothing you can do to change this.

Attraction is non-negotiable.

Deal with it. You got bamboozled and now you’re trapped.

EulenWatcher · 2024-01-13T16:38:42+00:00

Don't marry for sex. If your only/main goal to have romantic relationships is to have sex, you probably aren't cut out for long-term exclusive relationships to start with.

Marriage is a legal contract ensuring that the state treats you as one family unit. It comes with its own benefits and risks, but it doesn't fundamentally change your relationship with your partner. Long-term relationships aren't just about sex. If you pick well, you get a partner who you can trust and rely on. You build your lives together, you have each other's backs.

You still should romance each other so you won't fall into being just friends or siblings, but I'd say it's easier to romance your partner rather than a stranger. You're both expected to fulfill each other's needs and create environment that accommodates it. So your partner should be mindful of your needs and vice versa.

KayRay1994 · 2024-01-13T17:41:33+00:00

Nobody is “entitled” to sex, even married couples - sex should only ever happen if both parties want it, of course, one party can always try to persuade the other, there is nothing wrong with that - though nobody is actually “entitled” to it

Way I see it, if the amount of sex has gone down dramatically or has become non existent at some point in the marriage, it’s usually indicative of other issues. Why one partner isn’t sexually engaged should be a question of the state of the relationship and what can be attempted to fix it, not an issue of “i want sex and you’re not giving it to me. this is a problem” - the lack of sex is a symptom of a larger problem, but not the problem itself

KikiYuyu · 2024-01-13T20:40:12+00:00

So wife is not entitled to your commitment or fidelity either.

Uh, if that's what you promised her, then yes she's got a reason to expect that from you.

xothrowmeaway · 2024-01-13T18:37:31+00:00

That sounds like a conversation for the couple, but not for men/women in general. You can't generalize something like that.

Why even get married at that point? What happened to love? You're just trying to breed or...?

neverendingplush · 2024-01-13T16:45:20+00:00

Questions Iike this scare me. Why would a man want to be a relationship, marriage where sex isn't just a natural result of being with someone u are attracted to. When dudes start asking for sex , I think the relationship is either lost and or the dude has no idea how to be sexually attractive.

I've never said out of nowhere",hey babe wanna fuck". I read the room, and know how to get her in the mood.

And no men aren't entitled to sex in a marriage, find someone who wants to fuck you 🙄. Christ

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2024-01-13T20:48:52+00:00

Dude, “commitment and fidelity” is the core of most marriages. If you do want to commit or be faithful, don’t get married

jjolteon · 2024-01-13T18:03:58+00:00

why are you talking like like that

januaryphilosopher · 2024-01-13T19:42:59+00:00

If a man feels, as most men do, that he doesn't have an obligation to have sex with anyone when he doesn't want, I don't think he has a leg to stand on here. Any of us, when thinking about entitlement to sex, should really think if there are any circumstances where we would not feel bound by any obligation we're saying exists. If there are any, then we shouldn't be saying there is any obligation.

Justwannaread3 · 2024-01-13T20:39:58+00:00

Do wife have some kind of obligation to make sex easier for her husband?

I genuinely don’t understand what this means.

I think people should marry people they’re attracted to, committed to, and sexually compatible with. And they should also go into marriage understanding that the frequency of sex in a relationship is sure to fluctuate over time because of all kinds of variables, and that there will probably be times it’s off the table entirely.

I think spouses have an obligation to be supportive and understanding of one another and to do their best to overcome challenges together.

SillyMushroomTip · 2024-01-13T17:06:21+00:00

no one is entitled to anything

However if you want a marriage then the situation has to be beneficial for both people

PMmeareasontolive · 2024-01-13T17:03:23+00:00

Well, you're just describing an open marriage then, where either partner can step out for virtually any reason.

apresonly · 2024-01-13T18:56:39+00:00

i will take being single forever than living in a house with a man who wants to rape me

and if he's sleeping with other women, i'm not sleeping w him (STI risk is too much) or putting a roof over his head so bye

MidoriEgg · 2024-01-13T16:47:11+00:00

Being in a committed relationship with someone means being with them through ups and downs. If staying with them through lower periods and putting in effort to maintain the relationship sounds intolerable to you, maybe it’s best to remain single and only pursue casual relationships.

Cethlinnstooth · 2024-01-13T17:18:56+00:00

We brought in no fault divorce in part so we wouldn't have to deal publicly with this shit in divorce courts.

If your wife of some years...who probably knows you better than any woman in the world...had basically decided that she never wants to fuck you again that's a private and personal matter. None of us care if it's your fault or her's. You've got access to divorce. You've possibly got the ability to negotiate an unconventional arrangement with her or maybe not. We don't care.

MassiveAd1026 · 2024-01-13T21:19:34+00:00

The myth that married men have more sex, than single men that are dating is officially over.

Economy-Shake-1448 · 2024-01-14T07:42:29+00:00

I think once or twice a week is sufficient with a full time job unless you’re on vacation or something. Once kids come in, especially when the kids are smaller, it will probably be less frequent. Then as the kids get older and go to school, once or twice a week is good. I think going more than a month without doing it isn’t normal unless there’s something going on, like extreme stress from work or a newborn baby or something like that. Once I am elderly, I hope to still have it but I also won’t be surprised if the drive for both goes down.

ComfortableOk5003 · 2024-01-13T17:11:16+00:00

Technically being in a monogamous relationship comes with an unwritten contract.

taking care of your partner’s needs (sexual AND non sexual) is part of that.

That’s not to say it’s a do it now or I’m leaving you situation

AngeCruelle · 2024-01-13T17:55:00+00:00

When people complain about an individual's entitlement they are often taking issue with the individual's attitude or way of seeking out what they are owed.

You can be entitled to something in the most literal, neutral, straightforward sense of the word while still being loving, courteous, and respectful.

My faith teaches the wedding debt, which means outside of times of illness or recovery from pregnancy, one should strive not to deny their spouse. That said, we also believe that the other virtues taught by the faith, like temperance, aren't magically overridden by marriage. A man who needs it all the time to his wife's detriment is failing in that virtue and failing her as well.

MotherPermit9585 · 2024-01-13T17:49:34+00:00

Hot take: I actually do think people are entitled to sex within a marriage. I’m not for marital rape or coercion obviously but I do think that two married people have an expectation to have sex with one another and generally satisfy their partner. Otherwise they’re just roommates, co-parents, or business partners.

This isn’t just about women acquiescing to their husbands and starfishing. This would also apply to men who don’t give oral or are against toys in the bedroom etc. There’s obviously times when sex takes a backseat (new baby, stress at work etc.) or is actually impossible (health problems) but both partners should talk about what they need and how they can nurture their relationship and maintain a positive sexual connection. If there’s a dramatic mismatch in libido or one partner can’t perform sexually for health reasons or is asexual etc then they should consider other forms of intimacy and possibly opening up the marriage or separation/divorce.

AdEffective7894s · 2024-01-13T16:37:23+00:00

I would say it goes both ways

Each part should make an effort to meet their partner halfway.

Now if the woman choses to renege on sex i would recomend that the man choses to renege on implicit security.

You don't have to stay in a relationship with a person who seems not to give a minimal shit about you.

Safinated · 2024-01-13T16:33:59+00:00

Well, sex is apparently hard for men to come by

And many men claim to want it to be consensual

Of course there’s an expectation/obligation, otherwise you’re just friends or roommates or business partners

GrassToucher29 · 2024-01-13T18:06:08+00:00

So, I am a married woman. I do my best not to deny my husband sex (of course, there are times when I’m sick, or bleeding, or injured where sex isn’t really feasible.) On the rare occasion when I’m “just not in the mood,” and he is, I consent and participate in sex with my husband anyway, because I end up enjoying it, and I'm glad afterwards. He does the same for me, with the same mentality. I also don’t mind if he sleeps with other women, if he feels inclined, simply because it’s never bothered me, and so I didn’t feel the need to put that limitation on him. I am also allowed to sleep with other women (though not other men.)

The important thing here, though, is that everything is consensual, mutually agreed upon, and nobody is hurt or harmed. We freely consent to sex with one another even when we’re “not in the mood—“ we don’t feel entitled to sex with each other just because we’re married. That wording feels grapey to me. We aren’t committing infidelity if we sleep with other women, because we’ve given each other permission.

So, I think that married people are entitled to fidelity from their partners, but not necessarily sex. I think people should keep this in mind when they’re picking a spouse, and try to find someone whose libido matches their own, or feels the same way about, and agrees to, non monogamy, if they feel like they can’t go without sex or a variety of sexual partners.

AuraCore-main · 2024-01-13T16:32:55+00:00

It's whatever they can think that.

Kentaro009 · 2024-01-13T17:27:07+00:00

There used to be a general expectation that a wife would cook or clean for you, now its "That's not right, don't expect a woman to cook or clean for you"

There used to be a general expectation that a wife might cater to her husband or rub his back, now its "don't expect your wife to do those things for you"

Now more than ever, I am even seeing this idea commonly expressed that your wife is not in any way obligated to have sex with you if they don't feel like it. Even if they don't want to ever again.

Yet as a man, you are still obligated to do all the things your wife expects of you, (provide financially, be reliable, protect/provision etc.) even when you don't feel like it.

Women have now totally and utterly priced themselves out of the marriage market.

It is actually kinda sad, because as I have entered my mid 30's, I am seeing more women I talk to bring up that they will cook/clean for their husband as if they want to return to these old arrangements of the past that have been completely destroyed.

Barely-moral · 2024-01-13T16:39:24+00:00

I put benefits to be obtained in the table. If my current partner wants access to them, she can pay the price I ask in return.

I am not entitled to anything but I will remove access to any benefit I can provide if I am not getting what I want.

nnuunn · 2024-01-13T19:08:11+00:00

My view is the historical Christian view, that husbands and wives ARE entitled to each other's bodies. It's not that you can't ever say no, but rather that you shouldn't deny yourself to your spouse just because you're not "feeling it" or whatever. Also that you shouldn't take long trips without them or decide to stop having sex for a while for spiritual reasons without mutual consent.

This also doesn't mean you don't try to flirt or be romantic with your spouse, indeed, you're actually deliberately increasing both of your libidos by feeding them, which should inspire you to be more romantic and affection, not less.

Novadina · 2024-01-13T19:13:47+00:00

So we need to flirt with wife, tease her, roleplay etc to make it fun etc.

But then the question arises, if the same work is required for wife and another woman why not choose another woman. She will give him variety.

What “work” are you talking about here?? This question makes no sense. You literally just said “make it fun” but then are like “if it has to be fun what’s the point?” Lmao. Look, if you don’t like having sex with your wife and prefer “another woman” - that’s totally your prerogative! You are allowed to have an open marriage or even not get married at all! I don’t think I’ve seen anyone claim men should be forced to get married and be forced to sexually please their wives when they don’t even like it. If you don’t find sex fun and instead think it’s “work” you are perfectly free to not do it at all.

To answer your question for why some men prefer to have sex with their wife over another woman - lots of men just prefer monogamy, and lots of men really enjoy having sex with their spouse. Also, most men don’t have “another woman” already in their bed or that they love to make that an equivalent option, either. You can’t just go up to random women in their kitchen and grab their ass and kiss them and tell them you love them like you can with someone you share a house with and actually love.

I suppose since you think sex is work and apparently a hard job, you don’t really understand how other people think it’s just having a fun time with their spouse. Think of it like any other interest, different people are into different things - watching a football game on TV sounds incredibly boring to me, it would be a lot of work to watch it and actually pay attention, yet thousands of people enjoy doing that, it’s a fun time for them, not work. I don’t get it, but it’s just because I’m not into that. Sounds like you just aren’t into sex as much as most people, who find it to be a really fun time with our spouse. Or maybe you are married and don’t like your wife much.

Throwaway-wood · 2024-01-13T18:53:28+00:00

I think of it like this

I love my partner in every way. But sometimes, I have to do things I don't want to do because it makes her happy.

This is NOT the always ... just sometimes.

Some social engagements I attend to support her.
For some friends, I just smile and keep quiet.
If her day is long, I try to make dinner, wine, and candles even when I'm exhausted. (Sometimes I say fuck it, and we agree to order or go out also).
You get the point

Sometimes she's in the mood and I'm tired... but I don't view it as a violation of my body, sexual assault or anything like that. I love her and just like I find the motivation to make dinner even though I absolutely hate it in the moment. I do like the look on her face when she's sees what I've done when I'm tired to make her day a little bit better.

I do the same for physical connections also. Be that foot rubs, neck massage or sex.

This is what I expected of myself. As my partner has said, she feels the same.

I wouldn't say sex is an entitlement; I would say effort in a relationship toward sex is mandatory, though. What that effort entails is for each to decide. I can’t be in a low-effort relationship.

McTitty3000 · 2024-01-14T03:42:44+00:00

That the estrogen side of the equation throws around the word "entitlement" too loosely

Lower-Director1043 · 2024-01-14T04:33:59+00:00

Women these days are all useless, they don't cook or clean all they do is moan and

expect men to financially provide for them. walk eggshells over every insecurity be loyal to them when they become Unfuckable, and put up with our mood swings your hormones increased sensitivity and anxiety.

also make them feel special cause they need to feel good about themselves.

The only thing most women are good for is sex the least they can do is give their men sex.

In a marriage demand so the one thing that they are good for is draining out balls. So it is mandatory

Organic_Pollution_97 · 2024-01-14T10:38:00+00:00

I think that a monogamous relationship comes with the expectation of sex. If you expect your partner to be loyal, you need to satisfy them sexually. You need to be a good partner, care about their pleasure, and have sex with them often.

If you don't check those boxes, why would they check the monogamy box? Why would they stay loyal?

No-Rough-7390 · 2024-01-14T17:07:31+00:00

Sex is an entailment of marriage.

Spouse gets first crack at your libido. After that, don’t be shocked if some shit goes down.

Crimson-Pilled · 2024-01-13T17:50:18+00:00

A man isn't entitled to sex. This is true. But a woman isn't entitled to a man's commitment. In a just system, a man should be able to divorce his wife and retain custody of his children. Ironically, because women would be kept on their toes, they'd be less likely to abstain from intimacy under this policy.

modidlee · 2024-01-13T17:54:53+00:00

Every time you reject the person you're in a relationship with, regardless of why, you're killing your relationship. Every rejection is a slice in a death by a thousand cuts. They'll eventually get to the point that the love and affection is dead. That's when they either leave or cheat.

63daddy · 2024-01-13T18:52:06+00:00

Right, a wife has absolutely no obligation to have sex with her husband. If a wife refuses to go back to work, a husband is however obligated to financially provide for her, to not do so is financial abuse under VAWA.

To see the biases of marriage and divorce, one can’t just compare one factor such as the obligation (or lack there of) regarding sex, but must look at how all such obligations or entitlements balance out.

There are a lot of men stuck in sexless marriages, providing for a wife who refuses to work facing an incredibly expensive divorce. It’s not so easy to simply walk away, as one can do in a non married relationship.

Mr_Chad_Thunderpenis · 2024-01-13T19:15:24+00:00

If someone denies the other once in a while, it's normal. But if it happens consistently for a long period of time and it's intentional, then it's a violation of the marriage contract. A big reason men choose to enter relationships and marriages is for consistent sex after all, that's just a fact. Personally if I ever ended up in such a situation, I'd probably divorce her if the conditions were favorable, but if it's cheaper to keep her and/or also still had kids at home, I'd just cheat. Simple as that.

meisterkraus · 2024-01-13T20:46:41+00:00

Sexual intimacy is a core part of a romantic relationship. No one is entitled to sex as in they can force a person to have sex with them. But they are entitled to sexual intimacy as part of a romantic relationship. Now if there is no sexual intimacy then there is no longer a romantic relationship. When this happens you move on to the next person that will provide the core elements of a romantic relationship.

Bouldershoulders12 · 2024-01-13T20:48:54+00:00

No one is entitled to anything but if I am not receiving sex I am either going to divorce and get it elsewhere and I make that known upfront .

I’m not entitled to your body, you are not entitled to my time, attention, validation, and resources. Especially because I am an attractive man who is the whole package from a physical and life standpoint

Toxic_LigmaMale · 2024-01-13T21:47:58+00:00

I feel like it’s part of the agreement. If I agree to have sex with only you for the rest of my life, I’m not only having sex once a month. At the same time, no one really wants obligation sex.

If we talk about it, and there’s nothing we can do to bring some enthusiasm back, that’s grounds to leave. If you have kids or something and don’t wanna split, that’s grounds to ask to open up the marriage.

Bordbir · 2024-01-13T22:18:48+00:00

It depends on each woman. My future husband will be entitled to sex when he wants baring obvious circumstances like pain and sickness. My sexuality is very reactive so he’d just have to get me in the mood.

voidvoices · 2024-01-13T18:29:09+00:00

I think the big issue in alot of relationships is wifes using sex like weapon. Didn’t do what i want? No sex, etc. This happened couple of times in my past relationship and alot with friends. Every woman is different and some uses this on daily basis and others just sometimes. I think both are disgusting using basic needs (sex is love language for alot of people) for their own benefit.

basedmama21 · 2024-01-13T19:03:30+00:00

I heard this quote when I was 21 and I actually live by it

“What you won’t do, someone else will.” Now, it sounds extreme but if you never express interest in sex with your spouse…someone else will. And humans can only go sooo long (I’m talking in extremes of 6 months plus) without affection from a spouse before they snap

It is what it is. I also used to work in a male centric business (Budweiser model) so I’ve been a fly on the wall for some painfully honest male confessions

MassiveAd1026 · 2024-01-13T21:11:56+00:00

If there's no sex in your marriage. You're not a wife, you're just his roommate.

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2024-01-13T17:52:42+00:00

So a trend that's been going on with right now is women are trapping men with marriage and not giving sex because they know if he wants a divorce she's entitled to some of his resources... So it's literally holding him hostage

AutoModerator · 2024-01-13T16:24:21+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

cast-away-ramadi06 · 2024-01-13T19:16:20+00:00

It's tightly linked to the "entitlement" to sexual fidelity.

bluestjuice · 2024-01-13T20:20:31+00:00

“Entitled” just means “automatically receives as an effect of some precondition.” It’s not, implicitly, a bad thing. The automatic-ness of an entitlement precludes it having a moral weight.

The real debate here is disagreements about what the automatic effects of marriage are. And in reality, aside from the legal effects that are stipulated and therefore enforced in law, what we mostly have are a variety of social norms, and that means that people have different opinions on them.

Regarding sex, most people’s values around bodily autonomy and sexual consent mean they don’t agree with anyone being entitled to absolutely unfettered sexual access to their spouse. It makes sense that someone’s ‘no’ should be respected regardless of marital status.

Most people also hold the value that it’s unfair and cruel to agree on a sexually exclusive relationship with someone but rarely have sex with them. This isn’t because anyone is entitled to sex, but because regular sex was typically part of the set of expectations that informed the agreement to have an exclusive sexual relationship. Agreements aren’t immutable, but can be ethically changed by mutual consent, or by informing the other that you no longer intend to uphold some aspect of the prior agreement, so that they can respond appropriately.

Fidelity in marriage, by the way, is another agreement. It’s normalized in our culture, but it’s no longer codified in law most places and likewise can’t really be termed an entitlement. The ethical issue with cheating is that it violates an established agreement, generally without the other party’s knowledge or consent.

GH0STRIDER579 · 2024-01-13T22:33:31+00:00

...anyone up for procreation only sex? Anyone?

Snekky3 · 2024-01-14T18:55:09+00:00

If someone is not happy with their marriage then they should leave not cheat. Just make sure the children are doing ok.

Title	What are your guys views on "entitlement" of sex in marriage?
Author	abouttodiv
Upvotes	0
Comments	298
Date	January 13, 2024 4:24 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/195rp34/what_are_your_guys_views_on_entitlement_of_sex_in/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-are-your-guys-views-on-entitlement-of-sex-in.1242893 https://theredarchive.com/post/1242893

Comments