Are 'outdated' preferences towards men also misandristic, while the same towards women are deemed misogynistic?"

Mrs_Drgree · 2023-04-25T12:22:33+00:00

It's not misogynistic to have a romantic preference for women who shave (or whatever example). It is misogynistic to say that women who don't shave (or whatever) are not women or lesser women because of that choice.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2023-04-25T12:16:30+00:00

Having preferences is neither misogynistic nor misandrist. Being an asshole about those preferences is

If you prefer to date within your race that’s not racist. Going online and saying you’d never date anyone outside your race cuz of they don’t deserve love (the way people call short guys manlets or large women landwhales and say that makes them unworthy of love) IS racist

It’s the same concept

AnyIntroduction3288 · 2023-04-25T13:34:13+00:00

Let’s take a common dealbreaker from here: single moms.

It’s perfectly reasonable to not want to date a single parent. There’s an entire kid involved and if your relationship becomes serious you will most likely be involved in that kid’s life. There’s also the possibility of drama with the other parent.

However, certain men don’t just leave it at that and call it a day. They don’t simply not date single moms.

Nope, instead they make entire podcast episodes about how undesirable single moms are. They write angry social media essays about how single moms are undeserving of love. They sit around and speculate about the relationship that the single mom has with her baby daddy and write deeply offensive and provocative things about the single moms and their kids. They make jokes about women who were raised by single moms and describe them as “fatherless” and having “daddy issues”. They write offensive and provocative things and then get mad when women get offended and provoked. They post the dating profiles of single moms on social media to mock them. They go out of their way to match with single moms then humiliate them with a “hot take” on how she picked the wrong man or she should have stayed with the father of her kids.

That’s the difference. You’re allowed to have a preference. We have freedom of speech so I am not arguing that we make podcasts about single moms illegal. But it’s not wrong to call them out and explain that they are offensive and wrong.

Secure_SeaLab · 2023-04-25T13:49:48+00:00

Well to address one point, most women grow body hair all over JUST like most men do, while most men grow enough facial hair to wear a beard if they want…but only women are expected to shave their legs if you’re going by societal norms, dated or stupid as they might be.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-04-25T12:46:56+00:00

For instance, is it misogynistic to dislike body hair on women or prefer a particular body type such as not fat women?

No. It's misogynistic to demean women for these things.

many women say it's misogynistic to not be attracted to old women and wrinkles,

No they didn't. They said it's misogynistic to demean women for these things.

However, men's preferences are seen as rigid preferences that demean or objectify women and are problematic.

No they aren't. It's the demeaning part that is problematic and misogynistic.

Not being attracted to fat women = not misogynistic

Stating that you're not attracted to land whales, particularly when brought up unsolicited and repeatedly = misogynistic

See the difference?

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-04-25T13:44:27+00:00

Having preferences isn’t misogynistic or misandristic. Holding fat women or short men up for mockery because they don’t fit your particular mold of who you want date makes you an asshole, but it’s not technically misogynistic or misandristic either, because you aren’t hating all of a gender but targeting specific groups for your bigotry. Thinking women in general serve no other purpose but to provide you with sex and that cleaning and childcare is women’s work is misogynistic. Thinking men are all rapists and thugs would be misandristic.

ashpr0ulx · 2023-04-25T12:19:51+00:00

i don’t find any of what you have listed as outright misandrist or misogynistic.

sublimemongrel · 2023-04-25T12:28:46+00:00

Those type of preferences are neither misogynistic nor misandrist.

gofigure62 · 2023-04-25T13:38:36+00:00

Having a preference for what a partner does or how a partner presents themselves isn't misandrist or misogynistic.

It's misandrist or misogynistic if someone thinks everyone should subscribe to their opinions and definition of what a man or woman should look like or be, else they aren't a "Real" man or a woman.

There's a difference between saying "I prefer my partner not to have body hair." vs. "All women need to shave or wax because women shouldn't have body hair at all.".

Those are two completely different statements. What someone chooses as a partner in their personal life, is irrelevant to the views that they have regarding an entire sex overall.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-04-25T16:43:47+00:00

Those preferences aren’t misogynistic and those preferences aren’t misandrist either. What’s misogynistic is expecting all women to care about and cater to your preferences, or to make fun of women who don’t. It would be wrong for women to do that as well, but I don’t see that as often. Women will reject guys for not fitting their preferences, but women rarely offer unsolicited comments to strange men, like “you’d be a lot cuter with a beard to cover that weak chin!” Some men do that kind of thing to women just out of the blue, it’s entitled and rude.

2023-04-25T14:08:51+00:00

Good observation! This is a sticky question to answer because when we discuss feminism, it can been interpreted with different lenses.

The number one goal in feminism is change through policy, not men’s preferences. For example, access to childcare and healthcare. Another goal is to stop comparing an individual to this magical default person.

During early development, human brains uses the context (parent’s behaviors, books, social media) to determine how to respond and communicate with others.

Our socially is filled with white supremacy and patriarchal thinking. As a result, people are conditioned to believe in a “default person”. That means we see this default person in everything.

Society puts perfectionism on woman to look a certain way. This ideal beauty doesn’t always feel natural to the individual woman. That woman have to put themselves through so much pressure just to be accepted, to be loved. So woman reacted and fight this “person person” by saying we are not going to shave our arm pits.

HobbitShaker88 · 2023-04-25T14:45:56+00:00

No, its how they are expressed that is the problem.

I only have issues with standards when people are unrealistic or hypocritical really. Like overweight men only thinking thin women are good enough for them, an unemployed woman only dating men who make 6 figures, a really mean person only preferring doormats to date, etc.

Also, some standards people have are harmful to their other partner and I do take issue with that. I have one toxic uncle who wanted to date a woman who made less money than him so he could feel alpha, they had to maintain separate bank accounts due to his own personal feelings on the matter... but once they had kids she had to stay home for awhile as daycare kids "turn out bad" according to him. He married a teacher and when their kids were young my aunt wasnt working per his request...yet he maintained separate bank accounts and still expected her to help pay bills with her saved teacher money. This resulted in my aunt having NO spending money, she would get giddy when she got Bath and Body works bottles as birthday gifts, yet my uncle would buy all sorts of crap he didnt need all the time. My uncle's standards for his ideal woman are toxic AF.

esdebah · 2023-04-25T14:53:31+00:00

The three examples, nah. While there are people who might give you shit for not being attracted to tall, broke, shy women, most reasonable folks won't. Those are personal things. And outside of the internet, you'd be surprised how many women don't mind short or broke, and lots like shy. And a lot of women seem to like a big fella the same as a lot of guys like a voluptuous lady.

But demanding a man be a sole provider or a stoic or aggressive or violent can certainly fall into misandry. Reducing men to 'just' their size or paycheck is certainly demeaning. As is often talked about here, look at FDS for examples of that kinda shit.

RedditAlt999 · 2023-04-25T18:19:43+00:00

Not desiring a man because of genetic reasons beyond his control (height, hair loss, face shape, etc.) isn't misandry, BUT not desiring a woman due to issues completely within their control (weight, n-count, general mood, etc.) are all misogyny though...

januaryphilosopher · 2023-04-25T13:08:48+00:00

Having a preference isn't misogynistic, but the way you express it can be. You don't want to date a woman with hair, go wild. You say women shouldn't have hair, that's a problem. Men regularly say things that fit the latter pattern about women, but women rarely say this kind of thing about men.

balenciaghoe · 2023-04-25T11:57:41+00:00

where are you getting this information from ? who actually thinks this? it’s not misandristic or misogynistic , it’s just shallow preferences and people don’t like to hear shallow preferences unless it benefits them. i think men and women should stop being so bothered by peoples preferences especially if they’re not being disrespectful about it. we can’t help what we find attractive or not, just be respectful.

shmupsy · 2023-04-25T17:48:02+00:00

honestly though just be misogynistic if you want. there are girls out here that would agree with you.

Sabrepill · 2023-04-26T03:31:36+00:00

Often The same women who are far left feminists, virtue signaling about racism and racial equality and hating the white patriarchy only swipe right 9/10 times on white men and swipe left on most minority males

Race is actually the primary predictor on whether women will match with you on dating apps, more than height.

But it is not misandrist because people are allowed to have choices in attraction

the_jingster · 2023-04-26T15:11:45+00:00

Useless question. Of course they will respond to you in a logically correct manner. How they feel which drives their actions is completely different

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2023-04-25T12:13:01+00:00

no regular women give a shit about "misogyny" in dating, get off the internet

1Here4Bach · 2023-04-25T12:05:29+00:00

Is it misandristic if so many males are willing to go into relationships with loopsided double standards to begin with? One basic rule about economics: Who ever controls an in demand product controls the market. The House always wins. You can jack up an iPhone to $2500 even though it took $200 to make and people will still by it. Why? Because it’s in demand and people are so desperate to look cool with their new iPhone. It’s the same with women.

Women of average attractiveness can say they want a 6’5” man who makes $300k and is jacked. They look for any buyers if they don’t get any they readjust the market. They say okay. I’ll take a 6’2” guy who makes 100k and is reasonably fit. They do that until they find a male who is within their standards, there compatible with and wants to settle down.

The average male can not afford to do that but if you look at the upper echelon of males you’ll see they practice the same dating strategy as women when looking for a wife. Which is setting your standard high from the jump then adjusting your standards based on who you can actually get.

So to answer your question. No, it isn’t misandristic for women to have preference when there are males willing and able to meet those preferences for all types of women.

womandatory · 2023-04-26T00:24:58+00:00

Misogyny is the hatred of women/girls for being women/girls.

It’s not misogynist to have preferences, but when your view is that all women should be this way and you erase or deride them when they don’t fit into your preferences, that’s being misogynist.

Eg You can have a preference for women who shave/wax etc, but when you recoil in horror or mock a woman because a woman has armpit hair, or pubic hair, and you make it seem unnatural or disgusting that she does, you’re not only a misogynist, you’re an asshole. Women have body hair. Believing that it’s disgusting or unnatural for women to have body hair is hating women for being in their natural state.

Is it misogynist to have a preference to date women who aren’t overweight? No. There’s nothing specifically gendered about weight (except maybe PCOS but that’s a medical condition that affects some women).

Is it misogynist to not want to date older women with wrinkles? It’s certainly ageist, but it may also be misogynist if again you are applying your preferences to women as a class. If you’re 20 then it’s not ageist to not want to date women who are 40, but if you’re 40 and you refuse to date women your age, because of their age, you’re ageist, and probably a misogynist and coomer, because it’s possible to be all three, and an asshole to boot.

Preferences are fine. Negative differential treatment of women as a class is what defines misogyny.

Taohumor · 2023-04-25T16:25:28+00:00

Get your nazi facist logic out of here you misogynist

pearllovespink · 2023-04-25T16:44:47+00:00

Not being attracted to broke men will never be outdated. You need money and resources to raise a family. It will be like this for the rest of your life. There is no changing this. There’s nothing misandrist about being able to care for your wife and kids.

I have no feelings towards the rest of the things named. They might or might not.

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MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-04-25T14:08:29+00:00

For instance, is it misogynistic to dislike body hair on women or prefer a particular body type such as not fat women? Conversely, is it misandrist to not like men who can't grow facial hair or are fat as well.

I don't think it's misogynistic or misandrist to dislike those things. I'm not a fan of hairy bodies, be they male or female. I don't like hairy pits on anyone. I'm not attracted to far men or fat women. I can see how beards can be attractive, but I can also find reasons to not like them. From my perspective, why you dislike those things, and how you express your dislike is where we can talk about whether something is misogynistic or misandrist. Just liking or disliking a thing doesn't inherently mean it falls into those categories.

Scandi_Navy · 2023-04-25T14:22:04+00:00

Yes we should definitely start saying that.

2023-04-25T14:37:57+00:00

Just be honest. Don’t say “everyone deserves love” when you know you’re not going to give 90% of people a chance. Don’t say “bullying is bad” and then go bully people. Accept the double standards and do your best to fit into the categories that will maximize your potential. If you’re not good enough, change, or change your goals.

2023-04-25T14:39:32+00:00

Just want to point out that all the most famous celebrity heart throbs of the past couple decades are “short” by most women’s standards. Which just proves that people are so god damn shallow.

purplish_possum · 2023-04-25T14:47:57+00:00

I think the problem is some people are allowed to have preferences and others aren’t. You need to stick to your proverbial “guns” no matter what logic you choose. You can’t say it’s wrong to have preference a, but then say I need a person to have x y z and the Greek alphabet before you’ll even have a chat with them.

cult-imagery · 2023-04-25T14:52:41+00:00

I have a strong preference to date women with big natural breasts. DD+ I do respect all women so how could I possibly be misogynistic?

Yupperdoodledoo · 2023-04-25T15:44:11+00:00

Where are these women saying these things? It’s misogynistic not to be attracted to old men?

WillingMirror · 2023-04-25T16:09:34+00:00

Dunno about this topics , this seems ill-formed .I see the word racism being written instead of discimination.Personnal preferrence confused with misandry and misoginy.

The issue is rationalising a personal preference , this make the discrimination implied with preference systematized and lessening people that don't suit any stupid narrative .

And yes a lot of misoginy misandry racism and such is often conveyed in a form of perosonal preference asthis is moresocially acceptable . The issue lies with the justification that comes to the personnal preference .

Personnal case, I find a women that shave more attractive , but there is no issue with a women that dont shave . I know this ain't logical

teriyakireligion · 2023-04-25T16:28:26+00:00

Except men have forced women into corsets and constricting garments, deforming their bodies, binding their feet, etc., When have men EVER had their bodies deformed by women? It's men judging other men and competing against other men. Also, "misandry" is not equal to misogyny. Women have never even had the vote till the last century.

MistyMaisel · 2023-04-25T17:01:29+00:00

It's not misogynist or misandrist to have dating preferences of almost any stripe (Unless, you know, they reveal an obviously miso or misa bent towards life. But the preferences aren't the problem, they're just revealing of the larger character flaw at times.

The issue is in how preferences get expressed. Per example, saying I'm not attracted to short men is fine. Saying short men aren't men isn't fine. Saying I'm not interested in dating broke men is fine. Saying being broke means you aren't a man isn't fine.

Now, for a lot of your other stuff, that isn't about the miso are misa, that's about hypocrisy. You have 50 year old men saying women their own age are ugly and wrinkles are ugly. Which leaves anyone reading it with half a brain thinking: sir, you're not some youthful prize yourself. Much the same for a woman who is 45 saying she only dates 20 year olds cuz wrinkles and grey hair are ugly. Like, fine, but that's a pretty hypocritical answer there lady.

As for the one about supporting a man while he takes care of the children: no. This is stuff couples discuss ahead of having children or marriage typically. The problem is when men try to blind side you with this expectation after you made it clear you had no interest in that arrangement. It isn't man hating. You literally just don't want to have that kind of relationship with a man. Now, if you said no because men cannot care for children, that would be man hating. But, I've never really seen any women say this.

The problem isn't men having preferences, the problem is preferences being stated in woman hating ways or hypocritical ways. Either or. Anything else, is just women being jerks and I can't fix that for you.

RX-HER0 · 2023-04-25T17:02:34+00:00

No, no, and no. That goes vise-versa too. Anyone who thinks it's sexist to not like grandmothers is very obviously loony. Same thing for the guys who deludingly think women should love them for being on welfair.

Rumin8ting_ · 2023-04-25T19:27:00+00:00

Having preferences is not misogynistic/misandry. Im starting to think people on this sub don’t know what misogyny/misandry IS to begin with.

mi·sog·y·ny /məˈsäjənē/ noun dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.

mis·an·dry /məˈsandrē/ noun dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men (i.e. the male sex).

Not wanting to date a fat girl or a short guy is NOT misandry/misogynistic. Blatantly hating someone because of their gender IS misandry/misogyny.

toasterchild · 2023-04-26T00:22:31+00:00

It's only objectification if that is all you think they are good for. It's fine to be attracted to certain things but if you think those certain things are the only reasons the other sex should exist that is objectification. Men who get offended that women they aren't attracted to exist would be sexist. Women who think that men are only good for paying for things are the same in my book.

If you don't see the other gender as people first then you have an issue.

DragonflyAromatic793 · 2023-04-26T13:27:21+00:00

neither are misogynistic nor misandristic.

platypusnofedora · 2023-05-02T05:25:56+00:00

I wouldn't say a person's preference is automatically/inherently misogynistic or misandristic. However, as soon as you use them as a way to shame or harass others is where you enter the territory of being misogynistic or misandristic.

As an example: ever notice how focused tabloids and media are on the physical appearance of famous women and female celebs? When people say that it's misogynistic, they generally are referring to the amount of times/instances that people announce their opinions on women's supposed "negative" physical traits and image overall as compared to the amount and time that people do this to men (i.e. basically it just happens overwhelmingly to women vs the amount of times it happens to guys) But because of the constant bombardment of women with these comments and harassment, it can appear that in contrast, men don't have it as bad. In reality, society fails to see how BOTH are harmful and gross behaviors.

I would say that some societal/cultural norms or systems that typically shape people's preferences are inherently misogynistic, and often misandristic as well. By this, I mean shaming individuals and making them feel as if they aren't healthy, attractive, etc due to their bodies not matching what they promote or believe.

If you look at when and why the vast majority of women began to shave their body hair (in the United States, at least), it correlates to companies seeing and exploiting a business opportunity in selling hair removal products to women. ((I'm lazy, but literally just google "when did women start shaving" and you'll find articles and even some accredited academic research/papers))

And honestly, the same can be said for countless weight loss, hair loss, supplement, and self-help programs for both men AND women.

Think about how supplements are advertised, testosterone and muscle building types specifically. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with taking them, especially if you legitimately deal with substantial testosterone loss, other medical reasons, etc. However, a TON of these ads claim that it will change your life, make you a better man, etc etc, on top of the fact that some ads feature an athletic, incredibly muscular, conventionally attractive man with not an ounce of body fat. Personally, I'd consider shit like that to be just as bad as some of the makeup ads and weight loss ads targeted at women.

All these companies care about is your money, and are willing to exploit and manipulate perceived beauty standards in order to make you feel as if you need the product. They tell you how you need to look, and if you aren't? Well obviously you aren't a "REAL man"/"REAL woman".

the issue with this is insinuating that any/all value an individual has is in their physical appearance. additionally, it's why unattainable, impossible beauty standards are considered misogynist; we just don't address how those same standards can impact men. It's the reason objectification is fucking awful, on all sides.

TL;DR - you're allowed to have preferences for a partner, it isn't misogynistic. However, going out of your way to tell a person how they don't match that preference or telling them that they are of lesser value or a lesser person because they don't fit those ideals is absolutely misogynistic. You can swap misogynistic with misandristic, and the same applies.

Title	Are 'outdated' preferences towards men also misandristic, while the same towards women are deemed misogynistic?"
Author	Moneydamjan
Upvotes	82
Comments	280
Date	April 25, 2023 11:53 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/12yh4h7/are_outdated_preferences_towards_men_also/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-outdated-preferences-towards-men-also.1216712 https://theredarchive.com/post/1216712

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