Feminists talk about a glass ceiling preventing women from being President. I think that's BS

Sad_and_grossed_out · 2024-09-29T20:46:43+00:00

I mean, do you really think they're isnt a significant amount of people out there, both men and women, who will not vote a woman into presidency no matter what? Maybe not as many as 50 years ago, but they exist. Trust me I have some in my family.

Fab_Glam_Obsidiam · 2024-09-30T06:21:46+00:00

I think misogyny and the glass ceiling exist in addition to the fact that, in reality, women aren't that different from men and a woman president will do pretty much the same things as a male one. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. We just haven't had a woman become president to prove it yet.

You can see this play out on a smaller stage all the time. Anyone who's worked at store or restaurant has had equally shitty or equally great managers who were both men and women. Hillary lost because she reminded people of their least favorite shift manager. She just had that energy. But it's also true that a lot of people who grew up in the time when the glass ceiling was a lot more opaque are still voting today. It's not a defunct concept yet.

DXBrigade · 2024-09-30T13:21:55+00:00

I noticed people tend to be much more critical of female politicians than they are of male ones.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-09-29T20:23:51+00:00

I work in a male dominated field with male clients, who all invariably address my breasts rather than my face. If I don't kowtow and curtsy, some Boomers get angry and demand that one of my male colleagues helps him instead.

But those colleagues defer to me, since I'm the best person in the office to do what I do.

Anyone observing me for one day would agree that many middle aged and old men don't take me seriously despite having a wall full of credentials. Despite referrals from their male friends and neighbors. Despite seeing examples of my work.

I have to bust my ass and smile and be exceptionally acquiescent and accommodating to win men over 40 over.

And those men vote.

84JPG · 2024-09-29T20:51:50+00:00

The presidency is such a unique and exceptional position that it tells us nothing about America. It’s a single position that is elected two or three times per decade and getting there involves a confluence of factors and forces that makes it essentially a crapshoot. It’s simply impossible to establish any causation or pattern.

To analyze the role of women in politics and find potential discrimination, it’s more appropriate to view their participation in state legislatures, Congress, governorships and mayorships.

Plus-Opportunity8541 · 2024-09-29T20:12:39+00:00

I do somewhat agree with the sentiment. The people who aren't gonna vote for a woman were never gonna vote for Kamala either. Clinton lost because she failed to secure the all important rust belt and came off as a terrible candidate. No one really liked her. People liked Trump less, but when your options are crap and more crap, people don't want to vote. Harris, on the other hand, has been much better received by the public. There haven't been any major scandals of hers unlike Clinton. Harris does seem like a much more likable person. In 2008 people said the US would never have a black president, up until Obama won.

Major_Decision_7107 · 2024-09-29T20:24:36+00:00

There are numerous social prejudices against women in positions of power. Many men could not tolerate taking orders and demands from a woman but are more willing to follow a man’s lead. Society often dismisses women who aspire to attain high levels of authority.

LoudPiece6914 · 2024-09-29T21:00:18+00:00

I’m also red pilled and on the left. While I don’t think Kamala could have won an open primary. I don’t think she will lose and if she does lose, it’s not going to be because she is a woman. I think people discount how uniquely unlikable Hillary Clinton is and that’s why she lost not because she’s a woman.

OffTheRedSand · 2024-09-29T20:51:37+00:00

bruh kamala is getting constantly accused by the public of sleeping her way to the top and all her work is seen as invalid because of it by some even tho there's no evidence of it, it's just cause she's a woman.

we literally have a life real example of women struggling to get to a place men naturally were given.

has there ever been a man accused of such thing? women do have more unique hurdles on top of the hurdles men have.

Hi-Road · 2024-09-30T03:11:19+00:00

Took us hundreds of years to have even have the chance of having a female president, let alone other significant roles in government. A whole ass gender with little to no representation. There are definitely numerous significant roadblocks that women have to go through not only to be seen as a viable enough candidate by enough people to be elected, and that’s just talking politics. Plenty of people, men and women, just straight up won’t elect a woman for office. I volunteer for political canvassing and get to talk to some. They see it as one of those things that’s “a man’s job”, and back it up with bs like she’s gonna fire nukes on her period. Some people are just too biased and too stuck in their ways to see past their own immediate interest. Or needless sexism

alwaysright12 · 2024-09-29T20:12:30+00:00

How many female presidents have you had?

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SaBahRub · 2024-09-29T22:13:26+00:00

Metaphorical “ceilings” to leadership positions, power and authority in a free society are the result of bigotry, of which sexism is the most significant

-Kalos · 2024-09-30T01:29:23+00:00

There’s a percentage of people who would never accept being lead by a woman no matter how capable she is and there’s a bigger percentage that have biases where men are automatically seen as qualified and capable and women have to exceptionally prove themselves to get the same respect. Women can definitely overcome this but they’re still walking against the wind, don’t lie

Ppdebatesomental · 2024-09-30T06:56:08+00:00

I hope you are right is all I can say.

electric_icy1234 · 2024-09-30T18:53:53+00:00

If there was no glass ceiling, we would’ve had multiple female Presidents by now. Is it really a coincidence that every President elected was a yt man with the exception of one? You’re naive if you think politics is only based on meritocracy and fairness. There’s a lot of dirty play and bias involved whether with scandals, funds or votes. In politics, a lot of men will attack a woman’s character as a way to diminish their accomplishments and skills; as you see in this election, Kamala is called a childless cat lady. You rarely see this get used to judge male candidates.

I believe there was a finding that at least 42 presidents are related to each other or share an ancestor. When you keep picking from the same group of rich, powerful yt men, that’s not surprising. I also believe it is said that people are more likely to pick a family member or even a wife of a previous President or King than others. So there’s that.

IcyTrapezium · 2024-10-01T04:36:22+00:00

I know a LOT of men and women who say Kamala got where she is by sleeping with men. Apparently all us women have been doing it wrong and we could have just slept our way into being VP all along. I also know personally people who say women shouldn’t be president.

The idea that women aren’t punished for being women in politics is crazy. And by the way I know zero democrats who voted for Palin. Being a woman doesn’t make other women switch parties. It’s only a disadvantage usually. Maybe in some primary in a super granola district somewhere a woman might be chosen to represent her party partially because she’s a woman, just like a black person might have a slight advantage in certain “woke” spaces, but that’s because everyone with eyes realizes anyone who isn’t a cishet Christian white man has been kept out of power in America for hundreds of years

CatchPhraze · 2024-10-01T07:37:35+00:00

Activision Blizzard is literally settling a law suit because some dumbass excec said the quite part out loud "I'm hesitant to give you this promotion because your getting married and might start a family. I don't want to have you out for maternity leave."

Or the fact Walmart was sued for the same thing.

Or this guy:

https://www.businessinsider.com/ex-google-staff-brags-iabout-trashing-female-coders-resumes-2022-5?utm_source=reddit.com

The glass ceiling is absolutely a thing. Women do the brunt of child care, housework, and elder care. Those are all jobs. An employer isn't going to bet on someone that it thinks already has 3 other jobs.

Solondthewookiee · 2024-09-29T22:21:40+00:00

It means a barrier that doesn't allow crossing, yet it's invisible(glass). But there is nothing preventing it.

Correct, it is not a literal barrier, there is no law preventing it, but it is still very much a barrier.

But there is nothing preventing it. If there was, the Democrats wouldn't have nominated Kamala.

They didn't want to until their old white guy did so poorly in the debate that really had no choice but to replace him at the last minute, electorally speaking. If they had started the candidate nomination process last year like they normally would, there's a pretty good chance it wouldn't be Kamala.

The fact that it was even a contest with Hillary is pretty good evidence of the glass ceiling. I would guess that about >95% of the criticism that was directed at Hillary applies to a far greater extent to Trump, yet nobody expected the white man to defend himself against it.

You can even see it in just how they talk about the candidates. Biden did not receive nearly the same vitriol as Clinton and now Harris. They're talking about Harris sleeping her way to the top while Trump is only relevant because his dad was rich? How Harris is a "DEI hire" while ignoring that her running mate was picked in large part because he was a white man (to say nothing if a woman ever dared to talk like Trump does)? Is it just a staggering coincidence that the claws really come out whenever the candidate is a woman?

Bubbly_Pension4020 · 2024-09-29T20:44:37+00:00

I’d go so far as to say Kamala Harris is infinitely more electable than a rule 63 of her because he would be too short.

We haven’t elected a guy under 6 feet since Carter, but 5’2” women are electable?

At least give us some Amazon women to vote for.

ArtifactFan65 · 2024-09-29T22:23:00+00:00

America has less men than women. If women want a female president they need to vote for one.

Dependent-Tailor7366 · 2024-09-29T20:26:58+00:00

I don’t see how that will change anything. The President doesn’t run the country on their own. Congress and the Supreme Court will still be around to mess everything up even if Harris turns out to be above average.

Joe6p · 2024-09-29T22:40:14+00:00

I've heard many stories of male bosses only promoting the women that fuck him. I've heard similar stories from all around the world.

Also heard more than a few women say that they'd never vote a woman in because women are crazy and that's just how it is. Like it or not but opinions such as this create a sort of barrier to entry to politics, even if that barrier is half to 2 percent in polling. It exists.

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DennistheMenace__ · 2024-09-30T01:19:04+00:00

i agree.i think its possible for some issues if a women runs for president for the republicans, but if she runs for the democrats i think she'll do just as good as if she were a man. and I agree that Kamala will probably win.

NockerJoe · 2024-09-30T02:29:29+00:00

People don't seem to get that, in 2016, there were a lot of people who didn't like Hillary for valid reasons. She was not a popular figure in the public consciousness and the election itself did not help given she was right there with Trump having a scandal basically every month.

Kamala has more charisma than Hillary. Shes younger and more on the ball. The biggest gaffe in her career the public cares about is the time Obama said she was attractive and the only meme shes been in has been a joke about jizz where Trump was the punchline.

Hillary making "The woman candidate" her brand and leaning so hard on it is mostly just proof that the kind of person who wraps themselves up in identity politics is usually fundamentally unlikable.

EntertainerFlat7465 · 2024-09-30T18:52:31+00:00

She know very well Hillary ain't dumb

GalacticSpore · 2024-10-01T05:18:00+00:00

There are women in congress who are qualified to be president, they just never get the nomination. It is always someone who is establishment.

apresonly · 2024-10-01T14:46:33+00:00

You haven’t presented an argument you’ve just stated you don’t believe it exists.

Omen1699 · 2024-10-01T18:36:11+00:00

I don't understand how liberals aren't viewed as racist or sexist with how much they try to weaponize race/sex to win. Obama was a good example as he talked/acted very differently depending on where he was campaigning and the type of people there in terms of race/slang (ope)/collar color/etc.

I like Trump, though I see why others don't. Does he say some dumb troll things? 100%. To say he is dumb though is too much projection or too feeling based. You don't become as successful in as many fields as Trump if you are dumb. Just because you don't agree with someone's views doesn't make them this terrible person.

I don't agree with democratic views (on the areas that I mainly care about), but one could still receive my vote in future races. They try to frame it to others others that our problems are their skin color/gender/etc. However, despite differences in views, my main issues with them are how inauthentic and disingenuous the recent candidates have been. The body language and such are so fake, hostile, narcissistic, etc. Now Trump obviously has narcissism and an ego himself..but when he speaks, his body language presents genuine concern/care for America and the people. I saw him at a rally once when he first ran..and sure there was plenty of political rubbish said since he was in campaign mode and he certainly is a showman. The way he talked and expressed his views though..he is a genuinely good leader and feels for those who are struggling in ways he has and hasn't struggled. I saw an imperfect man, but a man that would stick up for America and try to make it better.

If a woman is running, that expresses genuine concern for the people + the strength/morals to lead, she will get my vote. By that, I mean someone with genuine concern and compassion to help improve/protect America, the world, and just genuine believe that all human life is sacred while also being able to nuke an entire country if necessary.

My views are very very far right on most issues, but I'm very open-minded and try to philosophically understand the opposite sides of my views. For example, abortion, I am very against it, but I really do understand and feel why others are for it, with no judgment about a person being for it. So, tbh, Sure, there are some Republicans that won't vote someone in because of their gender/race, but it's a minority just like those solely voting for someone black/a woman, etc. I originally was going to vote for Ben Carson, the black pediatric heart surgeon...sadly he dropped out but his skin color meant jack shit to me. Now if he campaigned like some democrats do where he made his whole personality that he is black, about racism, etc...definitely wouldn't have voted for him. It's sort of like those against gays, trans, etc...sure a minority are against them because of religious beliefs (I'm catholic and view it as wrong but still wouldn't judge/hate/avoid dialectic/avoid friendship with someone because of it) but the majority dislike them because they make it their whole personality, much like those who run for office. It's sort of like fat people as a better example...you are fat? Idc, live your life how you want. You are fat and need me to view you as beautiful, tell you that you could be a model, tell you that you are healthy? That's where many begin to dislike others in minority groups. If I was a master chess player and constantly only talked about how chess as my sole personality, while also seeking special praise and such ("wow, you are so brave for liking chess, I can't imagine the struggles you go through as a chess player." "Yes, we should make a chess pride month." "We need to let people who don't like chess know that chess needs to be not only praised but encouraged" etc.)..then that is what breeds dislike and resentment. I have enjoyed talking to many gay people as I didn't find out they where gay till later on...and viewed them no different afterward. I have, however, disliked/not enjoyed talking to every gay person I met that forcibly changed their voice and immediately made it know they are gay every other sentence. You want to be a black trans bi underwater basket weaving president? Cool. You want people to vote for you because of just that and make it your whole personality? Get f-ed lol.

Sorry for the long and very all over the place comment. I'm the very tired type of adhd and my meds make me very outgoing/passionate about dialectic 😅 one sentence turns into an essay.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-09-29T21:45:07+00:00

are you living under a rock? Kamala AND Hillary was/are being held to an infinitely higher standard than their male opponent. Many women in places of power acutely understand how much better they had to be than their male counterparts to get that job, or how much more qualified they had to be to be taken seriously. The world idealizes masculinity and favors masculine traits: strength, loudness, confidence, power, height, etc.

If Kamala gets elected, she’ll be the first woman president of USA ever. And you think that’s because “women don’t usually do what’s necessary” to be president? Another way to say that dog whistle is “women havent made themselves man enough to be taken seriously as contenders for president.”

karmakiller3004 · 2024-09-29T22:53:21+00:00

"One reason is so women will stop talking about some fake glass ceiling preventing women from being President." never surprised about the brain dead reasons people vote over practical policy.

A great sum of humanity remain slaves to indignities that only ever exist in their minds - Atlas and the Great Mind

reignoferror00 · 2024-09-30T00:17:38+00:00

If you're talking about barrier on anyone becoming U.S. President, not being rich with the right connections is a bigger preventer of that - even among those that party members who have shown they are both willing and capable. Then you have the whole bureaucracies of the two parties, and all their back scratching too. On top of that, there are likely those that appeal in many ways to all of the above but don't have the personality to get elected - sure they might be great at actually governing but they don't have the visible charisma that is involved in what it too often a popularity contest to get elected.

If you're even mentioning 'glass ceilings', mentioning them in regards for the top job that only one person can hold at a time makes you sound both out of touch with the populace and self centered to a crazy degree - not a good look.

Susiewoosiexyz · 2024-09-30T07:32:10+00:00

Why do you refer to Trump by his last name, but Kamala and Hillary by their first names? You can’t even show them the respect of treating them as professionals, yet you’re suggesting women and men are treated the same way in professional settings.

Devourer_of_felines · 2024-09-30T11:12:33+00:00

Hillary is still talking about the glass ceiling because she was and still remains under the delusion that she deserved the office. And frankly the women in this thread pretending America is somehow uniquely sexist are having very selective memory loss when her winning the populous vote was talked about ad nauseum.

Sholnufff · 2024-09-30T21:08:44+00:00

So there are a couple of things in my view:

It is very difficult for the party in power (holds the white house) to hold it for more than 8 years. FDR, Reagan-HW Bush are the key individuals to have done that.
Hillary did a highly poor job in her campaign of not campaigning out to every state. There were some states she gave very little attention towards which ended up going towards Trump.
The misdirection interference by Q , foreign powers as well as Anomyous did play a big role. There's a documentary on Netflix called The Misinformation of Social Media that goes into what all transpired starting with 4 Chan on forward.
Hillary is a very polarizing individual. Simply she is the person where there is no grey area for likeability. You either like her or hater. With her in prime position, the Republicans united.
Speaking of point 4, first there was the Tea Party and then rise of MAGA. They came in full force.
Last point is, many thought Trump would not win and this turnout was much smaller than in 08 and 12. Had Hillary won the office, we could have had the most liberal Supreme Court system ensuring Roe v Wade, federal voting rights and a list of precedents that this current super conserative Supreme Court has trashed.

Feminists need to understand that the world doesn't owe them anything. In fact late 3rd wave and 4th wave feminism has become a toxic group of misandrists which is turning things from a focus of equality to advantage. The courts reflect this in child support cases, divorce and domestic violence.

yarro27 · 2024-09-29T20:28:58+00:00

There are things that men do better than women.

Being a soldier at war, using guns and tanks and throwing bombs, for example.

Performing leadership and being a president is another example.

thedarkracer · 2024-09-29T20:17:36+00:00

You guys are like the oldest democracy in the world and yet no female president. We have had two female presidents and one female prime minister.

Regardless, the glass ceiling exists and women perpetuate it more than men. Take your Trump and Kamala for example, how that female republicans diss kamala while kamla doesn't do anything to them yet Trump is a racist and they do ass lickinh of him.

Unable_Evidence_4028 · 2024-09-30T01:51:11+00:00

Correct me if I am wrong. But there has been like 15 female presidents on the entire world, new zealand, brazil, argentina, and more. Almost of them impeached, procecuted or resigned for what they did, mostly corruption and abuses of power. maybe, just maybe, the population knows what they are fucking doing.

Nihi1986 · 2024-09-30T01:48:08+00:00

It's BS but even if it was true I couldn't fucking care less about positions for 0'000001% of the population... Besides, again, it's just BS, look at the richest people in the world and most important CEOs, some are women, women who had a good idea and worked really hard to make it happen.

obviousredflag · 2024-09-30T09:59:04+00:00

The reasoning is backwards: there are less than 50% women in the top positions, and our ideology tells us, this can only be the reason because men are keeping women from being there: glass ceiling.

Any other explanation, other than the opppressor-oppressed dynamic and unthinkable.

Look at the gender equality paradox in sociology. The ideologist don't have an answer and rather than dropping their ideology, they make up absurd nonsense for why women in the most egalitarian countries still pick traditionally female jobs, while their peers in gender-unequal countries don't.

SadCahita · 2024-10-01T09:30:48+00:00

I tried to vote for all male candidates in my country's past elections, I think there are many men like me but not enough to make the glass real

DankuTwo · 2024-09-29T20:10:32+00:00

Neither Hillary nor Kamala really earned their place. Hillary coasted on Bill’s coattails and Kamala was simply gifted the candidacy.

The first US female president will be one who got there all on her own….just like female leaders all over the world.

(I don’t like Trump or Kamala, but Kamala is obviously preferable, in my view. I still get to vote in the US, and won’t be voting for either one).

DeJuanBallard · 2024-09-30T02:24:27+00:00

That isn't gonna happen, deep seated need to have someone to hate is inherent in humans, and for women its men. Get over it, or it will control you.

VWGUYWV · 2024-09-30T13:57:20+00:00

They also think that they are discriminated against in STEM

While a grad student, I was on a faculty search committee

They very explicitly moved females higher in the stack because they wanted “diversity”

This was over 15 years ago

They came out and said it “oh here’s a woman” or “oh here’s a nonwhite male” and everyone nodded like “yeah…diversity!”

Shit should be illegal

Title	Feminists talk about a glass ceiling preventing women from being President. I think that's BS
Author	Carbo-Raider
Upvotes	46
Comments	389
Date	September 29, 2024 8:06 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1fsdeos/feminists_talk_about_a_glass_ceiling_preventing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/feminists-talk-about-a-glass-ceiling-preventing.1531383 https://theredarchive.com/post/1531383

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