Let’s play devils advocate - Men, what issues do you empathize with women on that they have to deal with, and women, what issues do you empathize with men on that they deal with?

yasee · 2020-02-23T17:35:31+00:00

less support and compassion for male victims of abuse or harassment

nemma88 · 2020-02-23T18:06:14+00:00

AMALTy things like getting stares because your walking by a park or school as a guy.

eveleaf · 2020-02-23T19:22:39+00:00

It can be hard to find love if you're not an attractive guy. It can be rough for anyone, but I do believe guys have it harder. Especially if he's introverted, and definitely if he's socially awkward.

Also, masculinity standards can be fucking brutal. So many stupid rules governing what is and isn't "manly." As a woman I hate it when people try to impose their idea of "womanhood" on me, and I think this happens far more often to men, and that's got to be just plain exhausting (and infuriating).

OrlandoScones · 2020-02-23T21:15:14+00:00

The various forms of birth control causing health issues in women.

wingbark · 2020-02-23T18:17:17+00:00

Imagine being attracted to the exact thing that would be most likely to brutally rape/kill you. That would suck.

Orange_Paisley · 2020-02-23T18:40:12+00:00

Men do not seem to have the same venues for emotional and social support that women do. In general they seem more isolated, even when married.

87AudreyHorne · 2020-02-23T17:38:01+00:00

While I dont think this is ok anyway, I'm really amazed by how much people (men and women) think men should be willing to do/give/change just to be more attractive to women. I get why if you take that seriously youd end up resentful.

If anything most people pity the girls who try hard to win guys over, and i really never thought that attracting men is a science, but the lengths some men take to understand and attract women can be weird (and I wasnt even aware of it). So much effort.

Then second, as someone who doesnt want kids at all I'm so sympathetic of men who think theyre safe and on the same page with their gf/wife, accident happens and she decides to keep the kid - somehow people turn stone cold and just tell them "well dont have sex". I get that you can have assholes abusing it on either side but just the lack of willingness to even say "fuck, that isnt fair" when it happens to a guy is just ruthless.

I want to have a third point but i cant remember anything now

redditthrowaway1478 · 2020-02-23T17:35:17+00:00

[deleted]

TheonuclearPyrophyte · 2020-02-23T20:33:01+00:00

I pity men who grow up in households dominated by women, whether they're raised by single mothers or surrounded by sisters.

My husband is an only child and was mostly raised by his mom, who has two sisters and what you might call a "pussy-whipped" older brother. He's a good man, but it seems he's been emasculated by all these "strong independent women" in his family, same for all his brother-in-laws. My husband struggles (quite successfully, thank goodness) against similar issues. My mother-in-law claims both her father and my husband's father were abusive, but the more I get to know her and hear about her mother who was "just like" her, I can't help but wonder if any "abuse" was more two-sided than she cares to admit. She claims to be "done living for men" but you can tell she's never even tried to commit herself to a relationship.

Every problem in life? A man did it. Her sister's husband doesn't want her to go gamble away all her "hard-earned" money at the casino? He's abusive and they need a divorce.

The way the legal system treats men also sickens and terrifies me. Men are more likely to get beaten or shot by police, and they receive longer prison sentences than women for the same crimes. Not a fan of the selective service requirement either.

Of course, I understand it to an extent: the average man is bigger and stronger than the average woman. While women can be just as violent as men, if not more so, the men are more often successful. This makes them a bigger potential threat to police and civilians alike, as well as opponents on the battlefield. Most women simply can't take the same degree of punishment. I still disagree with these legal policies though; a woman who commits a crime as successfully as a man should be punished as severely as a man, and no one of either sex should be required to serve in the military of a large nation populated by mostly total strangers who dkn't give a rat's ass about each other. Men should only be expected to defend their immediate family, their local community at most, and they should be allowed to. I shouldn't have to fear my husband being drafted to fight a rich man's war in a foreign land, nor should I have to further emasculate him by taking the lead in a heated situation in case the police get involved.

Men should also be allowed to fulfill any polygynous instincts as long as the sister-wives find each other adequate. ;)

FatmanSlim93 · 2020-02-23T18:37:41+00:00

while i don't really empathize with men who actively bitch and complain and make being a loser/cusping incel part of their "personal brand", i do feel empathy for normal naturally meek men who just don't seem to know how to talk/approach girls, IF i know them in REAL LIFE and have to be around them. i can witness their natural nervousness and see how difficult it must be for them in social situations especially flirty bar enviorments, that must suck. i will actively try to get them out of their shell and be social with girls if i can at all help it.

maybe if the "incel as a personal brand" sort of guys would actually break out of seeing women as potential holes and make friends with girls in real life they will see that women can actually have empathy for them, but expecting stranger ass girls on the internet to care about the romantic failings of strangers is bizarre. like...i'm not your friend lmfaao, but i have lots of empathy for the chumps i am friends with or say, my boyfriend is friends with

acron5n5 · 2020-02-23T22:26:13+00:00

Getting raped or at least being at risk all the time
Being oversexualized and slut-shamed at the same time
Not being taken seriously most of the time
Feeling 'used'/disappointed upon having sex with a guy who seemed okay only to find out he has small penis and/or he used to be a virgin before you
Lack of political representation
Glass ceiling
Periods, pregnancy etc
Seeing absolute majority of men as ugly & creepy (the world full of disgusting creatures must be a horrible place), competition for the chad, facing social pressure to settle down with a beta

Salty-Bastard · 2020-02-23T17:42:06+00:00

Dealing with creeps and feeling un-safe.

JJerba · 2020-02-23T17:57:45+00:00

[deleted]

Pastelitomaracucho · 2020-02-23T18:02:41+00:00

1)The fear of being physically assaulted by men or being constantly approached by men when you don't feel like. It must be fucking exahusting.

I know what it is like to feel fear on the streets and to be harrassed be people I don't want to deal with.

2) ending up a single mom. Life happens.

that said 1) no, im not going to apologise for men or walk on eggshells around public places and 2) I wont date single moms

trueorfalsedmitry · 2020-02-23T18:07:31+00:00

Women are subjected to rampant sexism in most professional venues. They are ignored and actively disdained professionally much of the time. The professions in which this happens the most and where it is most venomous are not the ones you might expect, either.

Women are right to fear the half of the population that could kill then if they wanted to.

OXOzymandias · 2020-02-23T18:23:11+00:00

Lets be honest, the fear of being overpower by the other 50% of the population, who is meaner, more agressive, more dangerous, honier, more crime prone, etc ... must be frightening.

By the way, that is why some girl find me appealing apparently, i am a safe dude, obviously, those girl are also safe girl sooooooooo ...

Maybe it is just bullshit.

2020-02-23T19:25:46+00:00

I emphasize with lonely entitled losers who want a relationship, want someone to take care of them and clean their shit, and blame feminism for their own failures.

I used to be this loser, whose friends were becoming successful, doing cool stuff, and I was going nowhere, getting a degree I disliked, living in a country I hated, and blaming everyone around me. I thought I'm entitled to a hot man who will solve all my problems and make my life a fairy tale. It's all because I grew up with a very supportive family, and being a younger child, was used to things given to me on a platter, just like all these entitled men.

Since then I immigrated, got a new degree, new job, paid my student loans in record short time and have a great career. That's why I emphasize when I read incel sobbing stories. Despite being a woman, this loneliness and insecurity is way too familiar. I'm glad I overcame this toxic entitlement.

Zazoo482 · 2020-02-23T18:33:38+00:00

I feel bad for young women who have no idea just how easily they can muck up their own lives. How they don't understand their own attraction triggers. How they can't figure out which man is a good man and have to navigate a world where we lie to them and mislead them all the time. I feel bad for girls having all their value front loaded and then not being given appropriate instruction on how to take advantage of that value, and not having the wisdom to do it until they are too old and it's gone.

I feel bad for guys who think feminism actually means now women will magically lead. I feel bad for short guys. They didn't choose to be short but they'll have to live with it anyway. It sucks for young guys that we haven't banned porn, they get addicted by twelve and ruin their brains and their dicks by twenty.

FlavFal · 2020-02-23T18:08:13+00:00

I feel empathy for men who suffer from social anxiety and shyness and this sort of stuff.

reluctantly_red · 2020-02-24T02:38:17+00:00

Can see how getting pestered by tons of guys you're not interested in could suck.

Bntt89 · 2020-02-24T05:00:54+00:00

I dont think I can fully understand this but tbh I think the idea that half the other population is stronger then you is a scary fucking thought. Pretty fucking shitty, also the shit they have to deal with in work scenarios and when gaming. Getting propositioned by your boss is something that women cant just say no to and saying you have to go back to the kitchen would get annoying.

But I'll just say this even before I even thought of this I had to these ideas where forced upon me to think. Which is good, I never would've been able to think of it. The same cant be said about male issues though, they can dismiss them because you arent told by society constantly. Your not suppose to care, this is problematic

2020-02-23T18:15:09+00:00

I think a lot of men struggle with the lack of emotional support available to them. It can spiral into mental health issues, addiction, homelessness and suicide.

Sex doesn't seem as pleasurable.

Male thirst.

Having a small dick, small hands and being short must suck.

Custody laws in the UK.

StanfordDish · 2020-02-23T19:22:00+00:00

Nature's constraints on women's fertility is something I empathize with.

I cannot imagine how difficult my life would be if I had the looming thought of finite fertility on top of trying to build a career and climb the corporate ladder.
As a man, I don't need to take dating as "seriously" as a woman does in her late-20s and early-30s. They need to filter for parental material, maintain good appearance, on top of the stress of work, school, etc.

This shouldn't be confused with sympathy, though. If a woman hasn't found a suitable partner by her early-30s, she alone is the one deserving of blame.

cxj · 2020-02-23T19:33:03+00:00

My heart genuinely goes out to women dealing with biology based problems: childbirth, pregnancy, menses, hormonal issues etc are just punishing for no reason at all. The “solutions” are nebulous and inconsistent and require investigative dedication just to not feel like shit.

While I don’t enjoy dealing with women’s neurotic nature, it’s clear they don’t either and I’m sympathetic . No, their bizarrely specific and excessive cleaning rituals are not reasonable to request of men, but it also sucks for them to feel compelled to such absurdities. It’s like u/texastentialism said, “mess is like loud construction noise, it can’t be ignored it just has to be cleaned or it’s a constant source of stress and bother until it’s done.”

If a woman really is passionate about X (hobby, career etc) and it’s male dominated, there are unavoidable issues men won’t face .

Generally women’s fickle nature makes it very hard for them to be happy in any context, especially romantic ones, and while this leads to atrocious outcomes for men it’s not good for women either and they can’t really control it.

angels-fan · 2020-02-23T17:26:40+00:00

The utter thirst of men.

It has to be so exhausting to constantly be on your guard because every interaction is most likely a guy trying to fuck you.

And PMS and periods.

Not only do they have the physical aspect of bleeding for a week, but the hormones go haywire.

Feeling so vulnerable all the time.

There's defiantly an evolutionary factor here because statistically women are far less likely to be physically attacked, but the lizard brain doesn't care about statistics. Men feel safe, women feel vulnerable.

manbaby1769 · 2020-02-23T19:41:06+00:00

Periods

rus9384 · 2020-02-23T19:57:04+00:00

Physical weakness, frequent feeling of threat from stranging men and periods. Apparently there is nothing else where women are disadvantaged.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2020-02-23T17:23:39+00:00

i "empathize" or "sympathize" or whatever bullshit word you want to use for it with every single complaint incels, mgtows, and terps make, and you know what, that and 10 cents wont get you a cup of coffee. what is this bullshit obsession with empathy. empathy wont get a mans dick wet or a woman to the altar. who the fuck CARES about made up bullshit "empathy"

41013 · 2020-02-23T19:36:29+00:00

I hate the height issue. Hate it hate it hate it.

factorfactorfactor · 2020-02-23T17:29:36+00:00

nothing really. society prioritises women (as it always has and should) but its beyond egregious now. if i was a woman i would be terrified knowing that at least 50% of the population could beat me to death with ease. also having a dick inside you just sounds weird/uncomfortable, but probably wouldnt if i was a girl lol

i guess the only thing is the mindfuck that is done to them. women are lied to just as much as men in regards to how to live a good life, which often leaves them broken and miserable. the difference is men get rinsed out much earlier and have time to repair themselves, whereas women often only learn the truth too late

abaxeron · 2020-02-23T20:23:20+00:00

Let’s play devils advocate - Men, what issues do you empathize with women

Pfff, virtually ALL of them. I don't agree with proposed solutions, that always boil down to "more government, more rules, more gibs, more men in prisons".

yuckyuck13 · 2020-02-23T20:56:28+00:00

I know a couple women who are pretty open about their periods, there annoying and often uncomfortable/painful. It's got to be annoying knowing that once a month for 30 40 years it's going to happen.

superlurkage · 2020-02-23T21:16:12+00:00

I don’t believe in the strict “one side pays for dates” or buying drinks as payment for conversation. I understand the reasoning, but it’s not convincing enough for me.

SaltKoala · 2020-02-23T22:32:44+00:00

None. All of their issues are self-inflicted and do not warrant my sympathy.

MindTheFuture · 2020-02-24T04:23:22+00:00

Physical violence in relationships still keeps happening more proportionately to women
Unwelcome sexual attention which goes way overboard.
Related, the truly shitty men exist.
And the men who prefer to be right rather than fucking.
In business world / entrepreneurship there exists circles which are best accessible and valuable only for normal guys.
Regarding dating, seems that women can go through years of casual sex hoping that being the way to find the right one to settle down with. That the big relations just eventually happens, things will click and it will feel just right. Just wait and keep sieving through the men. Then, when it doesn't, they're fucked.
Men who don't want to be fathers / or keep lying about it for sake of convenience and waste precious years. Seem to happen more like that than the other way around.

PrincepsOmni · 2020-02-24T06:48:45+00:00

This focused mostly on Western women - here are some issues I feel bad for them for.

If they want traditional relationships it's much harder today - the pool of men able to provide shrinks as women graduate more and now earn more in the under 30s bracket.
Men simply aren't raised as well anymore - many state education systems treat them like defective girls. This results in far more uninteresting, incompetent males who are simply not appealing to red blooded women for anything - whether she wants marriage or is into hook ups.
Women's biological clock - that's a pressure in and of itself if she wants children. The lies about freezing eggs and the like don't help.
The denigration of positive femininity in the wider culture must really not help women who are very feminine.
Being told from a young age the only happiness is in careers isn't helping many women, especially working class women, who will never have careers for the most part.
Telling the freest generation of girls in human history they are victims doesn't help them.
The legal system, especially criminal and family law doesn't encourage personal responsibility in women - it rewards poor choices and entitlement. It's not making women better, just more dependent and self-centred.

Barely-moral · 2020-02-23T17:28:25+00:00

Empathize is a strong word, lets say I can intellectually understand the concept of the issue.

Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink.

I can't empathize with the experience that is knowing that a significant number of people of the opposite sex finds you attractive but you find most if not all to them entirely unpalatable. But I can understand the concept. I can imagine that would suck.

I can't empathize with all the "feeling unsafe about everything" that is described by some women. But I can understand that living with said fear would be borderline crippling.

Five_Decades · 2020-02-23T18:55:52+00:00

As a guy, I empathize with women dealing with men who literally just want to use them for sex.

As a guy, you meet women who want to use you. Usually for money, or attention, or as babysitters for Chads kids.

But in general, I don't think women use and objectify men to the degree that we do it to them.

I've met women who wanted to use me, and its insulting. But then you factor in how much more often it happens to women, combined with how physically smaller they are and I'm sure its much worse. As a guy if a girl tries to use me I can just blow her off. As a girl you're going to be afraid of being beaten up if you do that.

Sel_Therapy · 2020-02-23T19:43:05+00:00

I'm a nice, outgoing, fit guy and in general women think I'm pretty attractive. Now while I appreciate that it's tough just being nice to lots of women because it's automatically assumed I'm flirting. I'm a happily married and because I manage people it could cost me my job to get caught up in that kind of stuff. However it never fails that some women assume that me being nice is me flirting. It even happens with my customers and I'm clearly wearing something signifying I'm an employee. So now I'm always asking myself if I'm being too nice. It even happens when my wife is around. She is always a good sport and laughs it off though. So I empathize with women that have to be on guard because them being nice is taken as them flirting and it's even worse because they are dealing with men.

goatismycopilot · 2020-02-23T22:04:42+00:00

I feel bad that men are allowed to only express a narrow range of emotions while at the same time the two things that make me want to run an Olympic dash away from a man and away from helping a man or listening to him is when he is either expressing large amounts of anger or large amounts of anxiety. I don't like anger or anxiety but I think men should not be censured for expressing them I just don't want to be the emotion pillow.

I think that men, particularly poor men get screwed by the criminal justice system, I think a lot of them have diagnosed or unmanaged mental health or cognitive/learning disturbances they end up doing time and then even if not violent they recycle through the system over and over. Once you have a conviction, nobody is going to want to hire you recycle on and on. This is exacerbated by the prison for profit system we have in the US where some corporate entities are making insane profits to house mostly poor marginal men some of whom might have been productive under different circumstances. I think the ones doing stupid non violent drug crimes and theft crimes could have been directed into something else had they been given more structure at an early age.

It also seems to me that a number of violent criminals have been abused sexually or physically/emotionally and I think men get fewer opportunities to resolve that. They do not get the voice or access to the therapy that they need not to be a shitshow of an adult and then they perpetuate it all. So men need mental health help and young boys who are acting out aggressively need a reasonable outlet not just drugs to calm them down because that shit never gets dealt with and then it is a hundred times worse later on.

Planetof12 · 2020-02-23T19:47:30+00:00

I seriously don't think women exaggerate the threat and scope of sexual violence. Most of my female friends (maybe all of them) suffered some kind of an assault. One has been through a terrible abusive relationship, where pretty much EVERY sexual act was rape.

She told many people. I'm the first one that believed her and bizarrely enough - I met her through him, and she was shocked I believed her story despite him being my friend. Of course, I cut off all contact with him because of that.

My latest (sexting) partner was shocked I didn't just block her and chucked her away after the session.

So while I'm not against discussing false rape allegations, or how some may use 'sexual harassment' just to mean 'guy I didn't like asked my number', I do think sexual violence against women is an issue that deserves all that attention.

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bluefiremagic · 2020-02-23T21:49:51+00:00

I sympathize with the fact that women that sleep around will have a harder time getting a guy to commit to him.

Shadow_Of_ · 2020-02-23T21:57:12+00:00

Guys who are just looking to pump and dump.

TheIllusioneer · 2020-02-24T00:17:35+00:00

Personally I think the whole abortion thing is moronic. I've never once in my life met a woman who was pleased about the idea of ending a pregnancy, most women who wanted an abortion either were doing it well before it was viable, or if they were doing it after that point it was because of some serious health issue. It would be easier to take religious nuts more seriously if they were genuinely trying to care for children rather than ignoring them the moment they're born.

I would propose the following as a solution, a single law that guarantees abortion rights (and access to it) for women, the counter right to men, is that a man could permanently sever any claim to the child. Not a lawyer but a solution could be worded so that it protects men and women, either legally or medically. Of course, there's too many on both sides who would rather sock it to the other to see reason so of course something like this will never happen.

NixieNik99 · 2020-02-24T01:22:26+00:00

I feel bad for men cause they constantly have to prove themselves worthy even if they are successful ,and women just seem to be entitled even though they could be a worthless individual that sponges off the government having multiple children by multiple fathers taking no self responsibility for their behavior ...

Karmanger · 2020-02-24T06:48:48+00:00

When going on a date you, don't know what type of guy he is so it can be scary.

I also feel bad that women have to deal with periods and extreme hormone fluctuations.

nikorux · 2020-02-24T08:26:38+00:00

The whole "boys don't cry" mentality is disgusting and downright inhuman. Humans cry, and if you're telling guy they can't you are basically saying they aren't human. Let people cry and express emotions, it's everyone's right regardless of gender.

nxhxlst · 2020-02-24T08:32:38+00:00

I empathize with thier demise as a whole. I gladly look forward to seeing the destruction of society, the cattle refuse to act when the execution is inevitable.

exit_sandman · 2020-02-24T11:13:26+00:00

I empathize with women who are cold and guarded towards men they don't know because they have made bad experiences with being too nice.

wtknight · 2020-02-24T16:21:10+00:00

I strongly empathize with women having to deal with male harassment and having to be so cautious around strange men. I would hate having to deal with that if I were a woman. I’m sure it can be very difficult to tell which men are virtuous and which men are jackasses, too, since many men can hide it so well.

iforgotmybd · 2020-02-24T20:11:35+00:00

Having to menstruate.. As a man, I need to follow the calendar, only to do well financially and socially, but for a woman the need to know what date it is, is much larger. Not to mention all the different ways, different women experience it.

Cimorene86 · 2020-02-25T09:46:14+00:00

I empathize with men on everything they deal with. How they're treated in the US, the problems of having a misandric legal system, how there's an insultingly low number of domestic violence/sexual abuse shelters, the Duluth model, the fact it's considered disturbingly normal here to cut up infant boy genitals but there'd be mass outrage if we cut infant girls, the fact that I was considered "progressive" because I signed my name for the Draft when all my male friends were legally forced to. I mean, the list goes on and on.

Not really sure how it's playing devil's advocate to talk about empathizing with the opposite sex. Just because I wasn't born with a penis doesn't mean I'm somehow blind to sexism against men.

Simp_Gulag · 2020-03-20T18:20:21+00:00

Women having to find the line between “experienced” and “oh god my penis is gonna fall off”

Starter91 · 2020-02-23T17:47:40+00:00

I don't care

Workaholiconew · 2020-02-23T19:35:14+00:00

I try to empathize with almost all of women's problems in PPD and in life, if I know they exist.

Like, I empathize with feeling unsafe around men (I more than most here, know how scared one can be of their lives).

However, I may consider some as exaggerations, euphemisms, or just out right lie.

Me trying to accurately understand peoples perceptions/feelings (definition of empathy) does not make me consider them correct, or even feel bad for their misfortune (sympathy).

I will not say I am a perfect in empathy with women, far from it, specially in women exclusive perceptions (social) but I try my best and I use this information well for making everyone involved, more happy.

HerosEnd · 2020-02-23T23:20:15+00:00

Women can emphasize 🤔?

cuckspace · 2020-02-23T17:59:11+00:00

I empathize with women who suddenly realize at 35 that climbing the corporate ladder while slutting it in the city really doesn’t make them happy, that they really want a husband and a family, but it’s probably too late and they don’t possess any skills or virtues useful for it, plus their beauty is fading fast. It’s really a sad situation to find oneself in and worthy of all empathy, especially when they realize they have been systematically lied to by major societal institutions.

beetlejuicer__ · 2020-02-23T17:21:52+00:00

In the process of empathizing with someone it usually works via shared experience and or understanding of their predicament. When an understand is achieved, empathy and pity follows. Yet in experiences whos meaning is entirely subjectively contained to a single being. If I am presented with the goal of empathizing with others, then I am forced to think of an an experience. I had, that is superficially similar and analogous to theirs. When I reach understand via analogy, I feel like I'm missing some part of their experience. Does it then Follow that any empathy I had isn't true empathy? I dont really know what a woman goes through because I am not not them, and they are not me. I have to imagine my myself in their shoes for any empathy to follow. Is that the root of irrationality? Imagination

lucky_beast · 2020-02-23T18:57:13+00:00

Literally the only issue women actually have is that any man they've ever encountered in their life who isn't in a wheelchair could rape and kill them and they would be entirely incapable of stopping him.

I get that that has to be very frightening, but we've also structured our entire society around protecting women from that.

BumblingBeta · 2020-02-23T22:44:20+00:00

I empathize with:

- guys they're not attracted to coming on too forcefully and not taking the hints

- the biological clock that they must have kids by a certain age

- their lower sex drive compared to men, which causes lots of complications when they're with men

However there's plenty I don't feel sorry for with women. By and large, they are in a massively privileged position compared to men.

Let’s play devils advocate - Men, what issues do you empathize with women on that they have to deal with, and women, what issues do you empathize with men on that they deal with?

Comments

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