Weekly Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2021-01-18T21:00:18+00:00

This weekly thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc......

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“Men” aren’t responsible for anything.

Individual men are, the man who raped a woman shouldn’t have and needs to be put in prison, the man who ditched his unborn child should take responsibility, the man who catcalled... shouldn’t have catcalled.

But women, 99% of the time, have full control over what they do and say, and are 99% of the time also responsible for their actions.

Getting black-out drunk on a Saturday night with no friends around to keep you safe while wearing basically nothing? Don’t be surprised when shitty men, who are infamously known for taking advantage of black out drunk women with no friends around, take advantage of that.

Having unprotected sex with a guy who’s outright stated he doesn’t want kids? Don’t be surprised when he actually doesn’t want kids.

Catcalled? Ya I’ve got nothing for this, there’s literally nothing a sane women can do to avoid being catcalled.

If you leave your front door wide open during the night, and then find out you got robbed the next day, are you going to claim you did nothing wrong and it’s all the robbers fault?

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No? They feel misled because the guy was dishonest.

How is a guy “dishonest” for rejecting a relationship with a woman?

If a woman rejects a man for sex, what would you say if he said she is “dishonest” for rejecting him? You’d retort that he’s an entitled prick

They hoped they were good enough to be wanted for a relationship, but they weren't

You’re proving his point re: entitlement.

Women are not entitled to a man’s commitment. It’s not his fault she wasn’t good enough for a relationship; likewise, it’s not a woman’s fault if a man isn’t good enough for sex.

Women who have casual sex are basically “reverse NiceGuysTM “ in this regard. These women think: “if I give this HVM lots of sex, maybe he’ll see me for the great girl that I am and finally commit to me!!”

Similarly, the NiceGuyTM thinks: “if I continue to treat her well, maybe she’ll finally see me for the great guy that I am and finally have sex with me!!”

[–]kissmetilyouredrunk1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Say it with me: “Women are not entitled to commitment!”

Im personally always honest with my casual sex partners.

If after a few weeks/months of having sex, she asks for a relationship, and I say no, how I being dishonest?

I did not lie to her. We just had sex, she eventually wanted an upgrade, I say no. It’s up to her whether she wants to continue having no strings sex or not.

I’m not being “dishonest” by simply rejecting her, and if she thinks she was “used”, then it means she believed that having sex with me made her entitled to my commitment. (See reverse niceguysTM analogy in previous comment)

She felt entitled to commitment and was using sex as a tool to obtain something else (commitment) rather than having sex solely for the enjoyment of the sexual interaction.

You are continuing to prove the men’s points with each additional comment.

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If he’s taking her on expensive dates and buying her flowers then later rejects a relationship with her, then you have a point. However, If he’s just booty calling her (ie, inviting her to his place to hangout to drink, then they have sex) then you have no point and the woman in question is deluding herself and seeing something that isn’t there

I never mentioned the word "entitlement," you did.

The difference is semantics. You’re saying it but without using that specific word.

Women don't have sex with guys they believe see them as a masturbatory device.

Female projection. Because women only get wet for and have sex with men they’d also consider for a relationship, they wrongly assume men are the same. Men can get hard and have sex with women they’d never consider for a relationship

much less than pursuing and seducing them does

Define “pursue and seduce”. Inviting a woman to your place to hookup and flirting with her doesn’t mean you want a relationship with her. Basically what I just said above. You’d only have a point if he was buying her flowers and things like that.

Some red pill there about men for you. If you didn’t know that about men before, then you know now. You can take this pill. Or not.

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You're not entitled to sexual pleasure from someone you've having sex with?

Correct. You can want it, and you can leave if you dont get it, but you arent entitled to it.

Why should women have to "communicate" their desire for pleasure? Why isn't it expected that women having sex want to enjoy it?

They dont have to communicate it. Its their choice to do it or not do it, but there are consequences typically associated with either route. If they want to raise their likelyhood of receiving it, they should communicate it though.

They arent entitled to recieve it, especially if they dont demand it, and you can even demand it, but that does not mean you are entitled to recieve it. You can however leave if that demand is not being met.

It is expected that women want to enjoy sex, but that does not mean they are entitled to recieve it.

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Fair point about accountability, but that’s on you if you can’t pay attention without a camera on your face. I don’t really think this makes camera folk look any better

I think this is only natural. It's easy for people's minds to wander in a lecture style format, or when they aren't surrounded by people and have their home comforts surrounding them. I don't see the harm in it if people find it helps to keep them focused by having the camera on.

The whole semester is online so we won’t be going back to in person classes, and I feel like it’s the opposite, there is no point turning the camera on. especially since this is a big lecture we’re talking about not small 10 person discussions.

Even more reason to keep them on then, so you can see your fellow classmates. For the person doing the presenting it will probably help them though, to be able to see people there. It's just a totally different kettle of fish presenting to a blank screen, you may as well just record it and send out a link than actually have a lecture.

Also how does this explain the difference between women turning the camera on and men not turning it on

Well I'd assume women are then more likely to want the accountability and men are more likely to want to piss about.

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[–]thelajestic1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Where are you getting that men out perform women in the workplace? From what I've read, women get more work done and companies with a gender balance outperform those with more men. If you're thinking about men being in higher up roles etc that isn't necessarily to do with their superior work, but rather sexist attitudes still ingrained which make existing high up men more likely to hire other men, as well as women being more likely to have to reduce hours and not advance their career due to childcare.

A lot of men I work with expect to be handed things on a plate and not work for them. Seen so many guys come in and tell me they want to be a manager and I talk them through all the things they should do to develop and they do none of it, whereas the women take on the development stuff and work hard to build their skills. It's only once they start to have kids they stop doing that, because they can't risk changing their hours etc so they stop going for promotions whereas men don't have that consideration nearly as often.

This obviously does not apply to all men, I work with plenty who are excellent at their job - but it is an extremely noticeable divide.

[–]pre-DrChad1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I was basing that off of most of the top fortune 500 companies being founded by men, most of the top achievers in research being men (just based this on nobel prize disparity), and in a personal case I have ADA data for dental practices which shows that men treat more patients than women and are more productive in general. The same goes for physicians iirc. This is one of the big reasons men out-earn women in medicine. You could also use the fact that men out earn women overall, but I think that is more due to career selection than men outperforming women.

While your anecdote may be valid for your situation specifically, I don’t believe that is the case for most men. Men won’t be getting promoted for executive positions if they weren’t grinding and developing skills themselves. There is no incentive for a large company to promote less skilled and incompetent workers just because they are male, otherwise they would lose money. Especially in a capitalist system like in the US, you better have your most skilled people up top or else your competition will and you will lose.

However males do clearly underperform in academics/school settings. You could say the same as you said above, that they aren’t willing to develop the skills/are lazy etc. but imo that doesn’t make sense, because these are character traits and they would carry on to the workplace as well. I think there is something else going on, maybe that the school system caters to neurotics like me (and women), but leaves behind most men who don’t fit that description.

[–]thelajestic1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I was basing that off of most of the top fortune 500 companies being founded by men, most of the top achievers in research being men (just based this on nobel prize disparity),

Yeah but that's a direct result of sexism. It's only relatively recently women could do this kind of thing and a lot of companies are still getting round to this idea. I've seen plenty of men be extremely disparaging about the thought of women in high up positions, saying they aren't able to do the work. If they have those opinions I'm betting there's still a fair few men in higher up positions who think the same. They'll actively shut women out of high ranking positions, be less likely to invest or back women-run businesses etc. It's a fact that female led research is less likely to be backed and funded, so of course they're less likely to achieve in research.

and in a personal case I have ADA data for dental practices which shows that men treat more patients than women and are more productive in general. The same goes for physicians iirc.

Does treating more patients mean better or more productive? Cos I've had some really "efficient" male docs (and female tbf) who clearly treated lots of people because they didn't give a shit. I was misdiagnosed with "indigestion" for over a year by docs who'd speak to me for 30 secs, insist I had indigestion and throw me out the door. Their numbers of people treated and keeping costs low probs looking amazing. However in the end it cost the health service a shit ton more for my extended hospital stay, bags of tests and emergency surgery for what should have been a simple out patient fix. And I'm obviously not saying all or probably even most male docs are like that - it was a guy from a different doctors surgery that caught it in the end and rushed me to hospital. However, you need to engage critical thinking and consider that "more" patients does not at all mean "better doctor".

While your anecdote may be valid for your situation specifically, I don’t believe that is the case for most men. Men won’t be getting promoted for executive positions if they weren’t grinding and developing skills themselves

You just need to look at some high up men to know this is so not true it's depressing. Trump, Boris Johnstone etc are/were fucking shite at their jobs yet still get to do them. Men are continually awarded contracts and work that they fuck up to an epic scale, because they're in the old boys club and not because they're good at their job. Their only "skill" is knowing people. I work for a blue chip company and our previous CEO nearly ran it into the ground because he was in pockets with politicians, and we're still working off that legacy.

There is no incentive for a large company to promote less skilled and incompetent workers just because they are male, otherwise they would lose money

Yes, and lots of large companies lose money. Most large companies are managed hilariously badly, deep in debt and unable to do even the slightest bit of recovery work when disaster hits. But they get to just get rid of it and start a new company with barely a blip to their name.

but imo that doesn’t make sense, because these are character traits and they would carry on to the workplace as well. I think there is something else going on, maybe that the school system caters to neurotics like me (and women), but leaves behind most men who don’t fit that description.

They absolutely do carry their laziness into the workplace. It's seen time and time again. Quick cash, easy money, no stability. Our whole economy is built on it.

[–]pre-DrChad1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I was talking about founders. There is no sexism involved there. No one is stopping a woman from creating the next Amazon or the next Facebook. You say investors are less likely to invest in woman run businesses, but is this because investors are sexist or because these businesses simply aren't good enough to invest in. C'mon be realistic here, investors care about money more than anything, if the business is a good business they will invest in it regardless of whether a woman or man runs it.

However, you need to engage critical thinking and consider that "more" patients does not at all mean "better doctor".

Never said men were better doctors, just that they were productive. Patient outcomes tend to be similar for both male and female doctors iirc. Men work more efficiently though.

You just need to look at some high up men to know this is so not true it's depressing.

I'm not denying nepotism doesn't exist, but that in these scenarios these companies lose out in a capitalistic system. Trump for example would have been much richer just investing in the SP500 with his inheritance rather than running his business. Trump is not really winning, he's a loser. Like I mentioned in a capitalist system if you don't have the skills you'll end up a loser. However there are guys like Bezos or Musk who are winning in this system because they do have the skills.

They absolutely do carry their laziness into the workplace. It's seen time and time again. Quick cash, easy money, no stability. Our whole economy is built on it.

If this was the case, our economy would be dominated by women and women run businesses, they would outcompete and destroy male run businesses. However this is clearly not the case. Its pretty laughable to call men lazy - they account for the majority of hours worked, and account for the majority of our economic output/production etc.

[–]thelajestic1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I was talking about founders. There is no sexism involved there. No one is stopping a woman from creating the next Amazon or the next Facebook. You say investors are less likely to invest in woman run businesses, but is this because investors are sexist or because these businesses simply aren't good enough to invest in. C'mon be realistic here, investors care about money more than anything, if the business is a good business they will invest in it regardless of whether a woman or man runs it.

I can see why you might have this opinion if you have never faced sexism yourself. You are young, and a man, with little life experience. Women do face sexism in these types of things. It is extremely naive to think that their businesses just aren't good enough. Yes, this will obviously apply to some people, however men who's businesses aren't good enough don't have the same barriers. They get the backing even when their business is shit. And I don't think women with shit businesses should get the same, I think only people who have good businesses should get the chances. Investors are people with their own biases and judgements. A male investor may be more likely to back a male-led project because he thinks it will do better. He might sit there and go - well most good companies are founded by men so therefore women must be crap at it, exactly the way you are doing.

Never said men were better doctors, just that they were productive. Patient outcomes tend to be similar for both male and female doctors iirc. Men work more efficiently though.

Women achieve outcomes as good or better. In terms of elderly care, their outcomes are better than men.

I'm not denying nepotism doesn't exist, but that in these scenarios these companies lose out in a capitalistic system. Trump for example would have been much richer just investing in the SP500 with his inheritance rather than running his business. Trump is not really winning, he's a loser. Like I mentioned in a capitalist system if you don't have the skills you'll end up a loser. However there are guys like Bezos or Musk who are winning in this system because they do have the skills.

But he isn't a "loser" as he still has money and power and so many opportunities. If a woman was that shit at business do you think she would have been able to become president? Or have other companies etc? No. They are judged far more harshly than men, who are let away with their collosal failings time and time again.

Bezos doesn't have skill, he's just really willing to exploit people. And musk may we'll have skill but tbh I've heard really mixed reports on that and he's just being bolstered by better people in his company. Just because someone is rich does not mean that they are the best at what they do.

If this was the case, our economy would be dominated by women and women run businesses, they would outcompete and destroy male run businesses. However this is clearly not the case. Its pretty laughable to call men lazy - they account for the majority of hours worked, and account for the majority of our economic output/production etc.

Maybe men "work" more hours because they're really unproductive? Anyone I know that puts in more hours than average is because they're shit at their job, spend half the day chatting or goofing off then need to make up for it after hours. That goes for men and women, but if men are doing all these extra hours I reckon it's more true for them.

[–]pre-DrChad1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It is extremely naive to think that their businesses just aren't good enough.

Proof of the contrary? Investors care about making money, not about the sex of the founder of the business they invest in.

But he isn't a "loser" as he still has money and power and so many opportunities

He is a loser because he has pretty much lost money. He would have been significantly richer had he just invested in the SP500. Given what he started with (his inheritance) he is most definitely a loser in a capitalist system.

They are judged far more harshly than men, who are let away with their collosal failings time and time again.

Victim complex. This is why women don't succeed, they don't take accountability. Exactly like the men here who whine all day long without putting in the work.

Bezos doesn't have skill, he's just really willing to exploit people

LOL now it's just getting absurd. He most definitely has more skill than any of us. I probably can't replicate what he did.

Maybe men "work" more hours because they're really unproductive? Anyone I know that puts in more hours than average is because they're shit at their job, spend half the day chatting or goofing off then need to make up for it after hours.

Or maybe because they simply work more? Have you thought that a neurosurgeon who works 80 hours a week isn't really unproductive, he is simply working more because that is the nature of his job. Its funny women make up 50% of med schools, yet they rarely go into surgery. Why? Because it's a lot of work, 80 hrs/week during residency, 50-60+ hours/week after residency. But I guess in your world all these male surgeons are just shit at their job and chatting and goofing off all day, not operating and saving/improving lives.

[–]thelajestic2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Proof of the contrary? Investors care about making money, not about the sex of the founder of the business they invest in.

I don't have proof because I don't have a note of failed businesses. Investors do care about making money but they are biased - all people are biased, that is a fact of life. You are far more likely to grant opportunity to people you see as being like you.

He is a loser because he has pretty much lost money. He would have been significantly richer had he just invested in the SP500. Given what he started with (his inheritance) he is most definitely a loser in a capitalist system.

But he still has money, and up until recently, power. That isn't a loser. That is someone unjustly rewarded for work they haven't done.

Victim complex. This is why women don't succeed, they don't take accountability. Exactly like the men here who whine all day long without putting in the work.

It is not a victim complex. Women do better in school and uni but still don't manage to get to the top levels of business in the same numbers as men. Since women are not all useless at their jobs, this is tied to sexism. There are other factors - childcare etc which can really hamper career progress. I am not saying that all of women's problems are caused by sexism but it is an undeniable factor. It is not victim complex to acknowledge this.

LOL now it's just getting absurd. He most definitely has more skill than any of us. I probably can't replicate what he did.

What skill does he have, exactly?

Or maybe because they simply work more? Have you thought that a neurosurgeon who works 80 hours a week isn't really unproductive, he is simply working more because that is the nature of his job. Its funny women make up 50% of med schools, yet they rarely go into surgery. Why? Because it's a lot of work, 80 hrs/week during residency, 50-60+ hours/week after residency. But I guess in your world all these male surgeons are just shit at their job and chatting and goofing off all day, not operating and saving/improving lives.

Stupid cherry picked example. Yes of course a neurosurgeon works hard and builds skill, and their longer hours are not likely to be bad time management. However in many other jobs. Any office job where men and women work equivalent roles. If the men work longer hours it is because they can't manage their time.

Women don't go into surgery as often for a variety of reasons - childcare being a big one as they may need to opt for less gruelling schedules. But also, over half of female surgeons have experienced workplace harassment and/or discrimination. While I'd love people to plough on regardless and just go into fields anyway, I can totally understand why they wouldn't want to go into a field where they have a high chance of facing discrimination. I know a few women in really male dominated industries and they often have a fucking shit time at work because of men being vicious shits to them, or ignoring them, or blocking them out of things and implying they aren't as qualified/don't know as much etc. I've seen and heard plenty men outright say they think some higher up women only have the job cos they sucked off some man. Why expect someone to go into a career when they know they'll be followed by that kind of doubt on their abilities?

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Why do so many women here still keep pushing the “gay men have high standards bro” myth? OLD destroyed that nonsense 15 years ago lol. Like when I was growing up the big narrative was

“Gay guys have high standards. If a gay man hits on you you know you’re good looking”.

Set your dating app feature to interested in men and the flood gates open lmao. Or create an account of grindr and you’ll see. It’s not just you’ll get more matches, they’re aggressive and forward with it. Dudes are telling you meet me tonight, sending pics giving out numbers etc. I did ok to good on tinder with women, I’ll get more matches with dudes in a week than I’ll get in 3 months with women.

Even in person. I remember in college picking someone up(long story) and found my self in a gay bar for over 45 mins. I was hit on more times by guys in that 45 mins than I was hit on by women that whole year and I ain’t no stunner. I’m a 6 in the face at best(tbf I’m really tall with a great head of hair). That was before I really started working out too and bulked up. I was a tall ass string bean lol

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That’s a really tough pill for men to swallow but women honestly would rather be alone than deal with you.

Female responses:

Being alone terrifies them, that’s why

☝🏾 I want them to recognize that solitude & the peace that comes with it is their real competition.

And this is it. I’ll choose alone over a man who interrupts my peace any day!

(I agree with the Twitter ladies. Men tend to think the competition is another man when his lady loses interest in sex or him. It usually isn’t. )

A male response:

It’s not dat hard lol. Put a price on ya box and see how many niggas would rather pay the asking price than take u on a date/ get to know u.

He’s implying it’s the same for men. The difference being men want your “🐱” though. If he could easily pay for that and leave the woman who annoys him out of it he would too. But alas it’s easier for men to stay in relationships that don’t grant them peace for the chance of potentially more readily available sex.

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I had a guy friend actually tell me he keeps girls he doesnt actually like around because he’s afraid to be alone..we are not makin this up.!!

My dad been miserable with a woman for yearssss

Maybe it’s not for sex. But men seem to be in these relationships for whatever reason. And it’s not just “for the kids” because I noticed this pattern with my childless male friends throughout my 20s. They keep a chick around until they’re ready to jump ship for the one they want. I noticed my female friends will breakup and remain single until they find the one they want.

This woman posits that men stay for this too:

I learned the term was “emotional fluffer” and I’ve been mad ever since. Especially when you consider how in most male/female relationships, even the platonic ones, the woman does more than her fair share of the emotional labor.

I know manosphere men feel as though beta orbiters are “emotional tampons.” But as a woman, I’ve always felt that term for the men in my life. My male friends and family members and lovers have always seemed to receive more emotional support than they provide.

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I have a hard time completely swallowing that first part considering that part of the main advice from FDS handbook is about "getting comfortable with being alone and single" (and don't get me wrong MGTOW and TRP does this too).

Combine that with the fact that you have women staying in shitty relationships for God knows how long past a viable expiration date, I'm inclined to believe that it isn't a given at all for some women.

As far as the second part goes, probably. You have enough people here that are all for completely legalizing prostitution and describe relationships as biting the bullet for what they want.

If we use the stereotypes, women want relationships for love, companionship, validation, commitment, romance, etc. Men want the sex (obviously ymmv). The fun part is that things like love, companionship, and validation can be found outside of romantic relationships. Sex more often than not can't be.

So when women aren't in relationships they can still get what they want, when men aren't in relationships they likely aren't getting what they want.

A better analogy than what that guy posted that's pretty common is look at all the men that would much rather have a casual sex/FWB relationship with a girl rather than a full on relationships.

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When guys who struggle to attract women find out that there are criminals who have GFs they erroneously extrapolate that women are attracted to criminals. The truth is that women are attracted to hot guys some of who happen to be criminals.

I've been working in the criminal justice system for two decades. I've been to some of the largest most notorious jails and prisons on the west coast and have worked on thousands of cases. Without hesitation, I can tell you that the vast majority of criminals are pathetic losers who will be lucky if they get laid a handful of times their entire life. Fry cooks at McDonald's will get laid more than most of them. Of course, given the size of the criminal population, there are some very attractive criminals out there. These attractive criminals, like all attractive guys, attract some very loyal and/or obsessed women.

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Reasons like this really make me wish that we had a much better structure for how we paid for financing of schools. The way that we do it now is just pretty much if you live in a rich area you have a good school if you live in a poor area you have a crap School we need Federal funding to be neutral across the board so that the kids have a much fairer shot.

One of the positive things I think that we've gotten out of covid looking at all of this. I think that it's a little bit easier for us to actually teach children because we don't really need textbooks anymore just need internet access and a computer and a teacher that's willing to teach.

Cheap Google Chromebooks with hotspots payed by the school district via Federal funding with access to the same amount of resources that the pretty much give you at colleges. I think we could really make a revolution in teaching and cut down on the cost that parents need to worry about in the immediate so people can actually live better lives.

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Aw man you deleted your other comment as I was writing my reply so posting here if you don’t mind. You hit on what I was thinking when I saw the tweet.

It's possible that autistic or slightly quirky girls like the one you linked are generally treated more favorably or open-mindedly, and thus develop more friendly, "quirky" social presentations compared to spergy males, who face significant social opposition from girls and other males alike, and thus develop very brusque, short temperaments as a means of defense.

IME and IMO this seems anecdotally accurate.

I think boys and girls are socialized differently which is your point.

But I also think boys and girls are inherently different.

So whether it’s nurture or nature, I think your aspie girl is going to be inherently more intuitive to sociability than your aspie boy. She might find it difficult to emulate exactly like the FSM. But she’s going to be slightly more in tune with the dynamics happening around her than your average aspie boy.

And like you said, this helps her present more favorably as she navigates life.

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Yeah. Idk. It's not my place to invalidate anyone's identity or diagnosis or whatever but I'm just not sure I see the utility in diagnosing this type of person with autism.

My second grade teacher actually wanted my mom to get me tested for autism because I had some of the signs (trouble making eye contact, sensory issues, difficulty in social situations/making friends, tics, some OCD tendencies) and my mom was basically like "Why? There's nothing wrong with her, she's just weird." And I kinda agree. Would being told I had autism have improved my situation in any meaningful way? There wasn't anything wrong with me, I was just kind of awkward and weird and a little behind my peers in social development. I still am all of those things lol. But I'm not sure I'd be better off with a formal diagnosis.

This is a person who, to me, actually appears to be autistic.

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You 100% right, but you're underestimating the value of these discussions. On a deeper level, sex drives everything, hell modern mass consumer culture was driven by the insights Freudian psychoanalysis. The entire premise of the red pill is that knowing certain things will give you an advantage in relationships with women.

That said, most of what's said here is garbage. Hardly anyone makes any compelling new points. And there's a lot of people who are quite clearly projecting their trauma and looking for a confirmation bias. It's a downward spiral really. Having said that, you cannot ignore the honesty here that you rarely will see anywhere else. There's a certain "ugliness" to it, however that is where the real insight is. You get a real idea of what our animal self is and what our higher self is. Honestly I'd go so far as to say that the government should be looking into these discussions, if they can somehow solve some of these problems that people express people would be a lot more happier.

If you have the intuition and mental critical thinking tools to take the essence of what's useful here and ignore the garbage, then I think it can be hugely useful. I remember somebody saying that women like to "feel sexy" and that's what drives their sexuality, and that literally blew my mind. Start putting attention into doing that with women and I've had a lot more success. Idk maybe I'm autistic for not figuring that out earlier lol.

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Nothing is really objectively special,

As far as genetics are concerned, you wouldn't be correct there. Genetics are pretty objective and there are objectively "better" genetics as well as objectively worse genetics.

unless you mean something like "rare" by it.

Rare, unique, different, providing an advantage over another, etc. What I'm saying is that most people are basically settling over perceived specialness and attraction rather than actually being objectively or advantageously different over another. Women, for example, want men who can protect, and want men with advantageous traits, but since these men aren't in large supply, they make due since someone is better than no one in terms of survival and the attraction to those men is self-created.

Which, even then, people aren't seeking rare people to partner with, but someone who who they find attractive and who they bond with.

They ideally want both, someone who is "rare" (has good genes AND who they "find attractive" and can bond with), but they settle in that the attraction serves more as a survival mechanism/glue to hold them together rather than being actual raw attraction.

This is impossible to argue with, as everything we experience is created in our minds.

No u

[–][deleted]0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't really buy into this genetic determinism, as someone having premium genetics, under your definition, can still be a terrible person and shitty partner. I still believe that upbringing, experience, and socialization are huge factors in making for a good partner.

Most people are average, by definition, and are best partnered with other average people with average genetics and average personal experiences, so that they can relate better to each other.

Average people partner with each other, rare people partner with each other, and generally they are considered uniquely special to their partners, with whom they share similar life experiences and sentimental memories.

There's no use in trying to target genetically rare specimens to partner with, unless you're a woman consulting a sperm bank, as you are less likely to have commonalities with such a person, and thus will not be able to relate and bond with them.

[–]octocombo2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Most people in successful relationships have partners who are particularly well-suited to them, which makes them special. Consider all the individual preferences that could drive someone crazy if their partner didn't match: level of frugality, preferred "love language," level of messiness, religion, political leanings, favorite cuisines, preferred number of children, preferred pets...

Realistically most people care a lot more about a couple of these preferences than they care about the rest, but a successful partnership almost always has compatibility on all the items the partnered individuals care most about and compatibility on many of the less-important features as well. Having that many compatibilities makes you special to each other in a way that would objectively be hard to find a replacement for, even if none of the individual features are especially rare and none of these features are really rankable in the sense that a person could be "better than average" in it (e.g., you can't be better than average in your cuisine preferences).

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[–]octocombo2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

"Compatibility" =/= "having things in common." You can be opposites in some regard and still be compatible.

I agree, but it isn’t random, either. You could have one person who really likes maraschino cherries and one who really likes whipped cream, and together they are compatible splitting an ice cream sundae. You could have one person who likes mowing the lawn better than laundry and another who has the opposite preferences, so they never argue about how to split chores. It’s just that in situations like this people are more compatible when they prefer different things. They have preferences which match well with each other, which is different from having identical preferences. But it’s still an unusual thing to have a lot of well-matched preferences.

It's not as though they're the only person in the world you could have a happy and successful relationship with.

Of course they aren’t the only person in the world you could be happy with. But if they’re one in a hundred thousand in terms of how well they work with you, and you happened to meet, and you have grown together over years which maybe boosts you to the one in a million level, isn’t that still special?

Maybe you personally have less-picky preferences than I do, but I know I couldn’t even be happy longterm cohabiting as roommates with at least 70% of the population, and I have substantially more restrictive preferences just for moderate satisfaction in a romantic relationship. I know that before we started dating I was already more compatible with my primary partner than I would be with at least 99.5% of the population who is in my age range and has a similar educational background, and it is probably higher than that. (Yes, I am the kind of nerd who made a spreadsheet of features I cared about in a partner, assigned weightings to the attributes, rated ~200 people I knew on those features, and ranked them accordingly. Most people do this more intuitively, but I wouldn’t be surprised if many people in happy relationships pair off with a similar degree of specificity.) And that’s already comparing to a population which is more likely than the general population to have high compatibility with me.

And shared experiences can boost this even more, making you feel comfortable with each other, providing shared treasured memories...after years of friendship, dating, and living with my partner, I can see ways we could be more compatible than we are, but I don’t believe I will ever meet another person who is as compatible with me as he is. And I know that he’s more willing to compromise than I am, but in terms of the overall probability that he could find a similarly-compatible partner if I suddenly dropped out of his life, I think it’s also very low for him if only because he would have a hard time finding many other women who were attracted to him at all, much less attracted to him and as compatible to his values/preferences as I am.

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How about we just force those who have not been vaccinated or had it to wear masks, or maybe make them wear a five pointed star on their clothes or something like that? It’ll make them easy to identify.

We should probably also paint “Anti-vaxxer” on the homes and businesses of those who refuse to be vaccinated so all can see who they are and avoid interacting with them.

It would also be smart to restrict their freedom of travel and movement as well. We should certainly mark their National ID ~~Papiere~~ cards to indicate that they are anti-vaxxers so that we can control who can travel where. For public safety, of course.

But probably the best thing to do is to set up regional facilities where they can be forcibly detained to keep them from spreading filth and disease amongst the good ~~Ayran~~ healthy people like the rats that they are.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/a416#:~:text=A416%20(ACTIVE)%20%2D%20Summary,dangerous%20to%20the%20public%20health.

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Ended in what way? Atlas is correct, but lots of people can't handle the obvious.

when you ask women about "men", they dont think about the nice beta men they dont want and what THOSE men could do to be more attractive/better etc--they think about the jerks and attractive men who have too much alpha and too little beta comfort and the discussion is framed around that.

the female experience of dating is NOT dating simps and niceguys, its dating jerks. men and women live in alternate dating universes

Assholes are noticed and get are on women's radar. If you're invisible otherwise and not an asshole you're still invisible.

But IMHO the main thing assholes bring is layers and layers of drama and conflicted "meta-emotions". So not only do women get to experience how the asshole makes them feel, they also get to experience how they feel about feeling the way the asshole makes them feel. And how they feel about feeling the way they feel about feeling the way the asshole makes them feel. etc. It's like a hall of mirrors that functions as a self-sustaining emotional rollercoaster.

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I think you’re close, but not totally there:

The Unbearable Lightness of Being is one of my favorite novels, and is written by a man. If you truly believe most male authors don’t involve themselves in the inner monologues of their characters, I’d be interested in seeing your thoughts after reading that one. It’s exceptional, but a lot of the plot resides between the ears/in the emotions of the protagonists. Same with Nabokov and Lolita (particularly in terms of Humbert Humbert being an untrustworthy narrator), Tolstoy and Ana Karenina, etc

IMO, the difference is in the descriptions - despite the author of The Story of O being anonymous for decades, many people nailed it as having been written by a woman (and it turns out they were right). Reading that, looking for clues as to the author’s identity (which was part of the experience of reading it for all those decades), the descriptions really did make it clear

That aside, I remember having to read a lot of Hemingway in my 101 classes in college. To the point where we spent an ENTIRE class debating what the phrase “a corkscrew in the snow” meant. It was the most mindnumbing experience of my life. I know he’s the quintessential male author, but holy shit do I find him boring as hell

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So it seems like some people are waiting/hoping to get their picturesque, ideal relationship with their fantasy partner and won't settle for less, while some people take more of a practical approach by constantly getting the best partner they can/upgrading until they have a partner who fits their standards but not in the unrealistic, fantastical sense that they may still secretly hope to find one day.

The former sees most people as "okay but not really worth it/I'd rather be single than be with someone I wasn't 100% interested in" while the latter sees most people as "maybe but also maybe not/I'd have to see how they are for myself but can't because that's too many people."

The former might be more typically introverted and idealistic while the latter might more be extroverted and pragmatic. I'm wondering if these traits are correlated with each other.

That being said, it still seems like everybody's got some fantasy of an ideal partner floating around in their heads that they are wishing would "finally just come into their lives already jeez." Maybe idealizations like that are what hold people back from appreciating people as they are in a realistic sense?

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SPF, by far. I came of age in the era of tanning beds, and finished my HS career alongside the sun worshipping guidettes of New Jersey

By sheer luck, the need for SPF was beaten into my head (especially as a very pale blonde) when I lived in the desert area of Southern California. I also have the attention span of a monkey surrounded by shiny things, so laying out was always way too boring for me to bother

The only reason I didn’t look like an alligator handbag by the age of 25 (like all of my HS classmates) is because of my SPF use/the happy coincidence of me avoiding sunbathing. As we’ve all aged, the difference in the skin of the sun worshippers and us vampires has only gotten more clear

Botox wards off fine lines and wrinkles (by freezing the muscles and not letting them create folds/wrinkles in the first place. For wrinkles that are there, it freezes the muscles in a smooth position), IPL addresses my skin conditions and collagen (which increases collagen production and just makes my skin look younger by looking more “filled” - the lack of volume is a pretty quick way to see aging). They both work underneath the skin that you see

Sun damage seems to be more about the quality of the topical skin itself. The best I can compare it to is when you peel off a scab and the skin underneath wasn’t fully formed/looks odd. Sun damage seems to make all of the skin look like that, hence the “handbag” look

Does that make sense? This is my take, as someone who isn’t a medical professional (just an aesthetician), so any doctors/nurses can chime in and clarify

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I’m talking about having sex with men in general, regardless of the context. I may be in the mood to call one of my FWB some time but after five masturbation orgasms I’m kind of over it. But those are guys I’ve already hooked up with and I know that they can deliver in bed. Banging random from Tinder appeals to other needs. Most brand new random hook ups aren’t that great for a lot of women and orgasms are not common. Even me, who has enjoyed lots of rando ons and str sex usually takes a couple of times to get comfortable enough with a partner to orgasm.

Regardless, when it comes to getting turned on by men and selecting mates, casual or for ltr, masturbation is not going to make us choose men by how rationally they would make good partners, ignoring our actual ingrained sexuality, if they don’t turn us on. That is all I’m saying.

Tingles just means Attraction. It’s not love. And yes, being in love intensifies sex, that’s the complex part. I’m just addressing your comment to me the other day and your comment to this thread....masturbation isn’t going to Replace picking a dude up from a bar or Tinder if she is intent on it. And it does not help us select our partners any better. Perhaps it does for men, as they get desperate and take what they get.

I think you are just projecting male sexuality upon women. Kudos for doing it in a unique and different way at least.

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Why do you care that people are having sex with random’s that they pick up from bars or Tinder? And by the way men and women both do it it takes two to tango.

Masturbation happens when a woman wants to have an orgasm. Women do not go on tinder and find a guy to fuck because they want to have an orgasm. Meeting someone involves selecting, vetting speaking, meeting, fooling around, then getting to the main event. This can often be interrupted by the guy flaking or not having chemistry or for the more neurotic women, giving them a bad feeling so sex is aborted before it even happens.

It usually takes many hours or days to find the guy, and there is a low guarantee of orgasmic success. Women pick up men for casual sex for a number of reasons. And keep in mind only a tiny percentage of very mentally unwell women are doing this constantly. Most women go online to meet men for dating and potential relationships.

So yes women pick up random’s for not strictly sexual needs. That’s what I’ve been saying this entire time

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Chances are you’re gonna be a shitty public defender making 40,000 a year drinking yourself to sleep telling low level drug dealers to plead out to charges lol.

I make several times that amount and my public defender gig is way more fun than big law ever was. I used to work for a big San Francisco firm that flamed out in 2008 after being one of the most prestigious firms on the west coast for a century. Ten years of civil litigation and the most exciting thing I did was a couple of summary judgement motions. Millions of dollars were at stake but still pretty boring. As a public defender I was in court daily from day one (they used the throw the new guys in the deep end and see what happens training style). My first trial was a felony (I lost but she got probation). My second trial was a violent felony where the defendant was facing a 50 years to life sentence. I believed that defendant to be factually innocent. I hung the jury and the DA didn't retry so I count that as a win. I've lost track of how many trials I've done -- but I have gotten quite a few not guilty verdicts.

Sometimes I can hardly believe they pay me to express my oppositional defiant characteristics. Also, I've never had a job where I've had so much autonomy. As long as I'm in court when the judge takes the bench I can come and go as I please.

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So it’s smart but also a red flag?

It’s smart when you’re surrounded by strangers. It’s a red flag after you’ve gotten to know someone a bit, and aren’t judging them on their own individual merits but by some imaginary boogeyman

Similar to women say that men are all somehow obsessed with bpd women and can’t explain why

Oh, it’s super easy to see why - as humans, our brains are wired to respond to emotional highs and lows. Which BPD chicks deliver in spades

I agree with you that both young men and young women often confuse toxic personalities (bpd women/abusive men) with actually attractive personalities. But most healthy people learn their lesson from dating one, maybe two, of these types and start figuring out the ways to tell one from the other

People with broken pickers never learn their lessons

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It’s smart when you’re surrounded by strangers. It’s a red flag after you’ve gotten to know someone a bit, and aren’t judging them on their own individual merits but by some imaginary boogeyman

I wish that were actually the case. Some people are just assumed to be bad whether they are or not. Something something inverse halo effect.

Oh, it’s super easy to see why - as humans, our brains are wired to respond to emotional highs and lows. Which BPD chicks deliver in spades

I agree with you that both young men and young women often confuse toxic personalities (bpd women/abusive men) with actually attractive personalities. But most healthy people learn their lesson from dating one, maybe two, of these types and start figuring out the ways to tell one from the other

People with broken pickers never learn their lessons

It seems like a lot of women find themselves stuck between the two though. They want men who have all of the overlapping traits of abusers with the nice, safe traits of the nice guys, and are annoyed that these men don't seemingly exist in large enough numbers. However, women still apparently go for the abusers though so it seems like some maladaptive issue rather than settling for the better option of the two.

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For me it read like she was well aware of the fact that he was attracted to her and tried to get with her, but she was not that keen on him. She basically used him for validation and maybe some other stuff too, and she probably also thought that she could do better than him and then actually proceeded to choose somebody else. Once that guy dumped her she tried to use that user's attraction to her for self-validation (notice also how it is suddenly not a problem anymore for her to be "straightforward" with him). And lol also especially at that remark about making a cute couple. Who wants to get with leftovers that did not want you to begin with? She must really have thought of him as desperate simp trash. And if his comment there is not just an exercise in creative writing, which it probably is, she was kinda right about that too.

Anyways, sounds like that girl only thought about herself and really did not care about him at all. If he was not able to cleanly pump and dump her then what he did was the next best thing. And depending on his ideas about self-respect etc what he did might have been the best choice anyways.

Edit:

Maybe that user belongs into our recent stacy-widow thread. Seems like her face was so "glowingly beautiful" that he got "stacy-widowed" without even having slept with her. Lol.

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Sorry.

I don’t believe it when women come on here and say that they refused to date some men, or refused to go out with him, or expressed disinterest in him, and then every single time, that man threatens to kill her, stalks her, bitches her out, or otherwise gets weird, dark, and violent. I don’t believe that this happens anywhere close to as frequently as so many women on here claim.

I don’t believe this, because if men were actually doing that with the frequency that women claim, our jails and prisons would be explosively overcrowded with such men. And they are not. I don’t believe this because if this were really happening, it would be considered a public health/law enforcement crisis that would demand immediate action by every law enforcement agency in the world.

The other thing I have to say is that, based on what women here are writing, their experiences with men have been overwhelmingly negative.

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Men here are clueless about how any of this stuff plays out in real life.

Not at all. I was a bouncer for 5y, and we always had an off-duty cop working with us (things could get crazy) and so I got to see/hear all the stuff that went down, all the good stories, etc...

The problem is, as I've said a thousand times, is women LOVE to cry wolf. The problem is... that only helps the wolf.

See there are times where women do get violently assaulted, heinous crimes certainly do occur, just they are rare. The problem is every women loves to pretend her minor experience is the same thing as these more violent/heinous situations. This leads to the inevitable problem with crying wolf... people stop believing you even when it is warranted.

For example, lets take _mwk's story:

so he smashed his glass at my feet, and now I have glass shards in my legs

Glass shards in my leg!!! Clearly she must have been rushed to the hospital right? 40+ stitches? Reconstructive surgery?..??

Or... he threw his glass on the ground, it was somewhat near here, a small shard or two happened to land on her skin, she was completely unharmed as he stormed off.

Are his actions warranted? Of course not, he's an idiot. But that is not some heinous assault. Classic example of crying wolf.

See it's not that men are clueless, it's that we don't believe women anymore. You've been lying far too much, far too often.

[–]GridReXX5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha0010 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But I also don’t think men understand how scary and enraged man is to women?

Except... then they go and hit on/appease the 'scary violent' men they 'are so scared of that you can't comprehend'.

Sure, maybe I can't comprehend... but if it's so bad, why seek it out? If violent men were so terrible, why aren't women jumping over themselves to hang out/date/fuck simps?

This is a classic example of what women say completely contradicts what women do. So you can 'say' all you want, make all these grandiose claims, turn every mountain into a molehill, cry wolf till you're hoarse... But no one's going to believe you when 5 seconds later you're hopping on the dick of the same guy you were 'so scared of'.

Again and again BPs refuse to see the contradiction in women's actions. Instead they have to hamster it away. Well 'assholes' are really assertive. Nice guys are creepy. You're just a jealous incel. etc... There's a thousand excuses but they fall on deaf ears because it's not what happens in the real world.

Sure, it's not 'all women', but its damn sure a whole lot of 'em.

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I didn’t believe in “depression” and “anxiety” as crippling until I suffered a pretty acute panic attack that lasted a week in my mid 20s. I always thought “those folks aren’t trying hard enough to be balanced.” Hubris. I Had to take off work and everything. Went to the ER. Doctor straight up told me my serotonin levels were spiking and he prescribed me a low dosage SSRI. I was shocked that it worked. That’s when I had that “aha” moment that it was true when ppl said they struggled to control their thoughts and anxiousness.

A couple of years later I experienced my very own insane stalker neighbor. Moved to a new yuppy neighborhood. I smiled at everyone when I moved in. Including the man across the street. He didn’t smile back. I never even knew his name until the police got involved. Instead he developed a pathological crush on me and harassed my roommate and I over the course of 16 months. He attacked me and destroyed my car. We had to move. Even after we moved he started FB stalking us and threatening to find us. He memorized my parents home address. He was obsessed with me. Thank god after months of police reports and attacks and restraining orders (so hard to get one if it’s not against a domestic partner) he was finally was arrested and jailed. Police detective told me to get a gun because they can’t protect against obsessed people when he’s released.

When I told my coworkers about this, I was SHOCKED that most of the women older than me were like “so sorry, I had a stalker who had to go to jail too.”

I knew catcalling and men grabbing your ass and touching you unwanted was a thing. But even I was shocked that the violent stalking was so common.

And despite what you’re saying, most of my experiences with men have been and are positive.

It’s like the men here can’t accept that women experience the worst of men and the best of men. It 404 errors their brains.

Just because most women have experienced harassment of some sort =! “All men are harassers”

All men don’t have to be that for some things to be a common experience of most women. You just need some very prolific bad actors.

[–]Aldabruzzo1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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I’m not.

You can’t comprehend that when women discuss these things they aren’t saying all men bad are or that it happens once a day everyday.

It’s exactly the narrative of your top line comment. I can’t help you don’t intuit your own screeds.

Lol no one is hurt. I enjoy how you help me prove my points always. Let me repeat:

And despite what you’re saying, most of my experiences with men have been and are positive.

It’s like the men here can’t accept that women experience the worst of men and the best of men. It 404 errors their brains.

Just because most women have experienced harassment of some sort =! “All men are harassers”

All men don’t have to be that for some things to be a common experience of most women. You just need some very prolific bad actors.

[–]Aldabruzzo1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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I edited it in because it seems you didn’t understand when I wrote it in the reply above? In fact you said you disagreed.

So I said hmm. His brain must need an example. So I edited it in.

But you disagreed with it initially. You literally disagreed with this:

I know plenty of men who hate the idea of their mom or sister or other female family member or female friend or female mentor being a “slut.” It actually seems to diminish how he views her. These are women they would never want “to commit to” nor procreate with and yet their crestfallen faces resemble “disgust.”

But it seems the example below you agree with?

I’ve seen enough little boys lose their shit at the thought of someone calling their mom or sister a ho, to trust your observations over mine. Ho was always the trigger. Not your mama is fat or ugly. But “slut” or “ho.”

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[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Almost any problem can be solved as long as you and your partner are both equally committed to solving it, because you both prioritize the relationship. That and you have a shared goal for the future. That's what being married is about.

When my husband and I fight, it's not about who is right / who wronged who. It's more "let's just get to the root of whatever the issue is as quickly as possible so we can go back to being happy and having fun" We still lose patience with each other and can be rude or snappish. Or feel frustrated because someone isn't pulling their weight, and then be shit at communicating it. But our attitude ultimately is very much "ok how do we effectively solve this because that is the only option?" We're both open to change to making things better in the long run.

Before we were married we had some pretty serious issues / volatility in our relationship. Getting married was basically our way of saying "ok let's stop being self-righteous bastards who are entitled to x,y,z and give each other the benefit of the doubt from now on"

Buuuut if I wasn't totally crazy about him, then those issues certainly would have broken us and I would have moved on.

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[–]WorkaholiconewNo Pill, Leaning red, Brazilian.2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (28 children) | Copy Link

Is it just me or does a woman's sexual/romantic makes almost all of her value?

I was dealing with some sisters these days and came to this conclusion.

The multimillionaire older sister was very fat and ugly, but she had slightly less overall value as a person than her younger and prettier (although not exactly pretty) sister... who was just your average slightly attractive girl with a normal 9-5 job as a hotel receptionist.

I mean, I know the older sister should be valued more, primarily as a human being. I mean, she did what is pretty much any human's dream of getting retired by age 30 by investing in real state. But I cannot see that way.

Heck, personally, we share lots of interests and she is quite knowledgeable and pleasant to talk... but no matter what she did, her lack of good attitude and appearance to give sexual/romantic value, lead to her value overall being... well... slightly above average. Making her (similar in appearance but way more taken care of) slightly attractive sister seem to have more valuable as a human being to me.

Am I that irrational?

Lol... am I too sexless? maybe that is it.

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Most women's definition of value, in my opinion, usually entice a mix of things which may or may not include social status, social power, social standing and well... wealth... in a few words... social value is pretty similar to their definition of value...

I see no point on those. I may be called workaholico, but it is a misnomer, and kind of ironic. I always hated working, I just am good and perfectionist at what I do because I need the resources work gives me. If I could not work with anyone forever, I would, the thing is, I can't. To achieve valuable resources I need to work, and work well, thus my nickname, work. As all people see is a workaholic.

Resources, such as money, time, energy and favors which should priority in a capitalistic society, rationally. And I have a bunch of interests which have nothing to do with others. But unfortunately sex always find its way in there at the top for most men, including me. I was born a man and probably will die a man. And it makes me mad that I cannot focus in what really has value without well... turning into a woman, and being distracted by another low return interest, social value.

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[–]WorkaholiconewNo Pill, Leaning red, Brazilian.0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

What people say and what people value, however, is usually very different.

I mean, I usually say a lot that sex value means very little to me (like most men) but I can guarantee you it is mostly hogwash for all but the most extreme of the asexual men out there.

And it is a human characteristic, not exactly gendered. No human (in their right mind) will ever tell the truth about their natures. And if they dare, they gonna pay it dearly.

Likewise... I've seen women value more the depressed office worker (namely, me now) over the part time manual laborer who does art on his free time (namely, me 15 or so years ago).

Value is what people assign to you, which include among other things status... but strictly speaking, humans (male or female), have very close to zero value unto themselves. If you had no sexual value, or I had no economic value, we could die and MAYBE only our families and close friends would really care. Society as a whole? nope... just another one.

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[–]WorkaholiconewNo Pill, Leaning red, Brazilian.0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

No, we are talking about overall value, the sum (or maybe average) of all values combined be it, romantic, economic, sexual, etc. My instincts as a man force me to weight sexual value way too above economic value in this formula, even against my own rational mind.

As a person who lived in both small and big communities, I can say, the difference is mostly to do with the capacity/threat of substitution and barriers to entry (Porter's 5 forces).

In small communities, the "tragedy" of a teacher's death has more to do with the fact that there are no other teacher in the next few miles around them than really some real togetherness. After all, If a small farmer dies, in a small community of small farmers who produce the exact same thing, almost none will care, maybe not even his family.

Yes, yes, we have instincts, even the biggest antisocial need some social interaction, and we are forced to empathize when we see suffering, but we are extremely open to substitutes and have easy access to substitutes. in cities where there is suffering in the streets, people just don't leave their homes and use social media. Case in point. Brazil.

All you need is being valuable to others, and they will come and stay. Consider all 5 forces defined by porter and you will probably never be alone or ostracized.

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Why would you think that 'close communities' in the past was that different from close communities today? The only difference I see is technology development. And in many small villages, people quite literally live as if they were in the 1800s.

From my knowledge of a peasants normal life in most of human history, people, regardless of small or big communities used one another just as much as today's cases, nothing more, nothing less. We just have more advantaged technologies, and thus less dependent on one another, and more capable of finding easy substitutes.

I don't know what is worst really, the idea of wanting more "closeness" by reverting technology (Amish school of thought) or to not understand that being dependant to one another is one of the only reasons humans deal to one another.

I mean, what you think we are doing right now? You and I are providing a valuable service to one another, for a return, and thus we are closer, and yet... not so much, as we are in opposite sides of the earth... If you need proof usefulness is what governs people proximity... well... I am closer to you, than many of your neighbors I am almost sure... mostly because I can give a interesting topic by the technological assistance of reddit. Something you would be hard pressed to find in any community, big or small.

If usefulness was really not that important, you would be talking to your lover. Not some stranger a planet away from you.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If usefulness was really not that important, you would be talking to your lover. Not some stranger a planet away from you.

What? People still have talks with others outside of their romantic relationships.

Thanks, I've got your point now. Yes, I pretty much agree with you here. Plus, you can count even the joy of communication as utility.

I'm curious how important the concept of family in Brazil though. Do you usually keep in touch with your extended relatives? Who takes care of elder relatives? You know that my family is Asian, here a family is important. I guess one could say that this kind of bonds are also created for utility, but expenses often don't get covered by any utility one can get from their relatives. Like my mother could easily live from buying and renting flats, but she helps our extended family greatly and she's the main financial provider for her mother. And...you do pretty much the same for your family, don't you?

[–]Workaholiconew1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What? People still have talks with others outside of their romantic relationships.

It was an example. I meant to say that if you had somebody close by who would give you the same or more returns than PPD... you would probably not be in PPD in the first place.

The joy of communication is within what I defined earlier as "enjoyment/pleasure from social interaction by itself". Together with other concepts such as joy from company.

In brazil we are very close to our family. We actually do not have the concept of "extended family" or "inlaws" a mother is not closer family wise than a grandmother or sister. It is all just one word and one definition... family. Parents may have more responsibility but not more than any guardian.

Here the traditional way is so the oldest generations take care of the youngest generations and their own and the youngest generations take care of the oldest and their own, while the working adults bring in the income. Example. My gradma took care of me and my 12 direct cousins. But while she took care of us, we took care of her too, once we could do these tasks.

By the time we were full time workers, our parents were retiring/leaving the workforce and my cousins having their own children to take care of our parents. (My mother/father/aunt are prob taking care of some of my second cousins right now)

You seen to forget that older people demand social interaction, attention, distraction and movement as much as younger people... and they are willing to pay for that, be money, time or energy... My grandma did not like being a nanny, but she hated even more being bored and alone in her giant house (plus kids distract/take care of one another quite well... thus the work is easy)... we were her enjoyment and she was ours. In her eyes, it was my parents and us who were doing her a favor. She gave nanny/teacher services... and we gave her attention, housing, money, company and distraction back.

I help my family yes. But if it was ever a negative for a long period I would abandon them. Live is risky and expesive in Brazil, one does not get away from family easy. To live in Rio's favelas you need at least 4 average wage workers working together to pay the bills for a single small home... I.e. 2 "families" under the same roof... If i fall sick, have kids, or divorce I know I can count on my family's help to a certain limit, so I am open to help them to what i think these certain limits are worth... and rarely they lead to a overall negative. (Although I admit they do not stay positive much time either)

Plus I have my own returns... for all intents and purposes... i have no interest in kids because i took care of my smaller cousins... they are my children. They are my legacy.

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feminists are still pushing for more women in college

I’m not going to lie, I haven’t paid attention to college since I graduated in 2002. So I don’t really have an opinion on this to argue against - or agree with - you

What I have seen is a push towards getting more women in STEM, which I think is lazy and ill-advised. You’re not going to get women interested in shit that they’re just not interested in

I’ve also seen a (much smaller) push towards equalizing the pay in traditionally female career paths. That actually makes more sense to me, given that some paths (like teaching) requires graduate degrees in order to be hired (depending on the school system). But you also have to balance the market and demand, so it’s a catch-22

But yes, just increasing the sheer female body count at colleges seems like a fool’s errand right now

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[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago* (74 children) | Copy Link

Men really defending threatening their daughters dates with violence under the guise of caution but refusing to admit men are dangerous.

The above tweet highlights a common disconnect on Twitter and Reddit based on the replies and quoted tweets.

Men seem to freely admit “men are dangerous and women should treat them with that lens” whenever they pop out a daughter.

If you ask many a woman raised by a man where she was first taught about the proclivities of men it was likely her dad/uncle/brother with “better be safe” and “can’t trust a lot of men” and and so forth. It was also inferred in how they regulated our actions compared to our male peers or relatives.

But in the same breath, you have threads everyday on PPD where women are accused of being “paranoid” for having a natural and rational caution.

Do the men here think caution = paranoia. Idk.

For example this is a hell of a straw man. Most women don’t claim to feel that way?

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[–]WorkaholiconewNo Pill, Leaning red, Brazilian.-1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (35 children) | Copy Link

Do the men here think caution = paranoia. Idk.

Psst.... paranoia is defined as (among other things) excess caution.

It is true that men are more violent than women, in Brazil 0.06% of men cause 95% the violent crimes in the nation, while only <0.01% of women do the same (men do so around 8 times more). But the thing is... the true difference between the sexes is not 8:1 but aprox. 0.06%. (i.e. any random man is on average 0.06% more likely to react with violence than a random woman).

That is how you do probability. You do not consider the comparison between groups ("there is no negative probability" principle), you must always deal with total overall chances differences... and it lead to a small difference, men are more dangerous? sure. But you are more likely to suffer injury or death by your own home objects than really by your partner. (not to speak that violence of men is usually towards other men).

I recommend bayesian statistics if you wanna learn more.

It is fine to be more cautious of men than women, and to be cautious overall from violence, it is not fine to treat a men like some kind of murderous machine while women are fine human beings.

In other words...

Statsitically, Or you are fine with both men and women, and slightly more cautious around men. Or you are not fine with any sex.

Anything else is definitively paranoia.

And the women being criticized over paranoia, are behaving exactly like that.

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I mean, *raises arms* Look around.

Not only here but women in general speak as if men were lenient with their natures. As if we would kill at a simple no or slight bother or just... you know... attack without reason... I mean, almost all men have more self control than that. To react like it was not like that is ridiculous.

Yeah, we show some aggressiveness and sexual behavior, so we do so usually with a enormous filter, after all, we are humans, not only we need to let a valve to give away excess steam, but we are sometimes not able to keep everything tucked in all the time. (which leads to this minimal difference in violent acts).

I mean, if men were really as uncontrolled as your average karen, you would be hard pressed to not see a woman raped or some dead ex-boss every other second on the streets right?

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I mean paranoid behavior, extreme caution and self regulatory behavior when it is unreasonable to do so, is literally all the definitions of clinical paranoia.

Being non-confrontational when it needs to be done is also a psychological problem (although can not be caused by paranoia).

All in all, you are listing just psychological problems and illogical behavior. I mean, that is why we say women are crazy... I mean most women I know do behave in mentally ill behaviors and thoughts, and admit it as if they weren't crazy-like (if not out right crazy), like the women who go around running in a mall just because there is A man behind them (like there wasn't supposed to be men going in the same direction as them at any given time).

Being in a self regulated paranoid state the LAST thing someone would want to do is be confrontational - so please, explain the context of these situations.

Karens and the like, you know the drill, the overly confrontational and uncompromising modern woman you find in every corner. I mean, they are not dangerous(mostly) but certainly a nuisance and extremely common, primarily among young women.

[–][deleted]2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Workaholiconew1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I mean, yeah we have paranoid men sure, I am one of those, but the thing is, I and other paranoid men are the rare exception, not the rule...

Also, most paranoid men are also very much self-aware (after a time, obviously, none is self aware instantly) and try to be rational. Women don't seen to do the same or at least have much success in that.

Most women go around like you, saying that irrational behavior and thinking is rational instead of admitting their failings as human beings and trying to fix them. What some may call "treat me like god or suffer mentality", "karen" Or how we call it here in Brazil "Maria syndrome"... (Somehow it is always a common name of women, or some women in particular who shown a lot of this behavior.)

You're telling me you would take caution, walking up a dark alleyway and there are a group of guys?

You wouldn't be mindful of your surroundings when walking home late ?

Sure... but not in a mall, on the city hall or in the middle of a crowded day in a university. That is paranoia... that is also pretty common behavior to modern (and not so modern) women.

[–][deleted]2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Workaholiconew1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I mean women are humans, they have failings, and a lot nowadays.

To say this paranoia and other irrational behaviors of a given woman is not a major failing, is just denying the truth. It is like saying a given man's overly aggressive or sexual behavior is not a failing of said man...

Rationality is not gendered. People are rational or not. A man can be Just as irrational as women and vice versa (like I said, I share the problem of paranoia, most modern women have). The thing is, women like you do not believe they are failing as rational human beings, when they clearly are failing as rational human beings. This curbs cooperation and improvement. It is not a gendered thing. Modern day women's paranoia is just a failing, not too different from the drunkenness most men had in the times of our great grandfathers.

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Men having double standards regarding women they care about and women they don’t is pretty universal. When a 20 yo guy is running game and trying to get into some girls pants at a party, he’s not thinking “well, what if she was my daughter...”

I LOL watching male friends who were straight hoes in college who now have teenage daughters and are desperately trying to keep them away from the exact kind of boys they were.

That said, truth is that men here are just trying to trigger women with their finger pointing and rape apology rhetoric. They derive some kind of weird power trip from it.

Funny thing is any time I post a message about something that frustrates me about women (like working in a female dominated field, for example, which definitely comes with a set of problems), these same guys white knight like you can’t imagine.

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Why you shouldnt be upfront with your intentions with women:

You are essentially revealing to them your entire hand before you engage in a game of poker.

Not to say that its impossible to get sex if you are upfront with your intentions, and if you are high SMV this may actually be a good plan of action in order to save time, but the average man just does not have the luxury of having such abundance they can sustain recklessness.

In terms of efficiency towards getting sex you are best off remaining ambiguous with your intentions, implicitly sussing out what she is looking for, and pandering to that in order to get laid.

For example, if she is looking for a relationship, obviously your best course of action to get sex would be to then leverage the relationship carrot.

If you were to have been honest with her about just wanting sex, then, as an average man, you wouldve likely been rejected. Now you have a chance to actually play your hand.

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what is the age group you’re pursuing for sex? i could understand if you’re talking about women over 25-30; but in the younger demographic, there is an abundance. i’m not even overestimating that, i’m speaking from the perspective of a young woman who knows how other young women are. yes, even the pretty ones.

if you’re older than 35, then i understand your frustration because i know there aren’t many young girls jumping on the opportunity to sleep with much older men who just want nsa sex.

that still doesn’t justify being scummy and gross. it’s one thing if you’re just going with the flow, you sleep with a girl, and then you decide you’re not interested in anything further with her; it’s another to intentionally deceive a woman (especially one who has been open about wanting commitment) to get sex when you know what your true intentions are, and then discard her after she’s already become comfortable enough with you to have sex with you. that just makes you a gross person. i’d even refer to y’all as “pussydiggers.”

and, let me guess, you’re also a man who judges women by their n count. yet you’re contributing to the problem with the women you criticize.

[–]YoMamas_azz2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rft243 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

i’m not saying it’s easy or that it means many men are getting sex easily, i’m saying there is an abundance of women who are open to nsa sex. but yeah, of course women are gonna have higher standards for physical attraction when rmv isn’t being factored in. it’s not entirely about looks though, personality is still factored in to a lesser degree.

i just don’t think it’s all that difficult for a guy who’s at least a 5 or above in the face and isn’t fat. if he’s got game and knows how to cultivate attraction; he’s not gonna have as much trouble as a dude who’s a 4 or below in the face, has a gut, and can barely talk to girls without running them off in some way. shoot, talk to a girl at a party or a bar who’s tipsy enough to think you’re cute when she otherwise wouldn’t and it’s easy; but i see how that’s risky.

i think when guys say the whole 80/20 thing they’re exaggerating; and, as someone who i can’t remember rn put it, it’s a lot of guys who are assuming they’re average when they’re actually in the bottom 20% (i’d say maybe even 30%). the middle just has to put in some more effort that will yield them decent (yet probably inconsistent) results. it’s not just super hot guys and then everybody else is ugly, it’s hot > average > ugly.

then there’s also the issue of men not wanting to fuck their own looksmatch. y’all would rather just lie than fuck women in your own league. honestly i can’t even feel bad for women who are dumb enough to actually fuck y’all, especially the pretty ones who can definitely do better.

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Poppy’s editorial for the day:

It’s really fun to argue all of these theories to death. But any of us who actually has a life outside of Reddit knows a million examples that contradict and disprove any and every theory discussed here.

I’ve said it many times before but this stuff was never meant to be a roadmap for your life. At the end of the day, if you’re expending all of your energy defending the theories to strangers on the internet instead of putting them to the test in the real world, you’re still failing as badly as you did when you came running to the pillosphere for help in the first place.

TLDR; clam down. Stop taking it so seriously. You’re not soldiers in an ideological war. Literally no one else cares about this shit. Just have fun and try not to waste your youth in a state of rage about things that don’t matter.

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There’s definitely a problem. It’s talked about ALL the time outside PPD in the context of:

ever-evolving gender roles
economic insecurity especially for young men without degrees
how the education system is failing boys
health issues like obesity and rise in ASD
technology making us increasingly isolated and disconnected from each other
social structures that once anchored us like churches and close extended families de prioritized or non existent
too many boys not having a father or father figure
how things like the prison industrial complex victimize men at the lower ends of the economic spectrum

These aren’t things we discuss here. What we do here is blame each other, chant reactionary politics and post revenge fantasies.

Pills aren’t going to help our boys and young men.

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[–]YoMamas_azzTheoretically2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Salt chronicles continued:

So I met up with this asian girl today, she just left a few moments ago, I had only communicated with her through snapchat and I hadnt heard her speak, so I was suprised to hear her speaking broken english when she came in the room. She was very pretty. Very feminine, smelled nice. She is an au pair from thailand. Her name is "Blink". That is what was listed as her name on snapchat, I thought it may have been a nickname, but I confirmed it was actually her real name.

Despite the language barrier we had decent conversation. This was the first asian woman ive been with. She seemed very nice. Though she did let slip that she "doesnt date asian men... yuck..". I thought that was hilarious to hear as I always hear manospherians talking about such things.

It seems as though ill be able to see her two more times before I ghost. Decently happy about that, she is definitely one of the more attractive women ive been with. Though the sex was relatively mediocre and she did make me wear a condom, so it couldve been better 🙈.

Currently in the hotel now waiting on ubereats, I decided to get thai food as I thought it was only fitting 🤣

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I don’t pay enough attention to them to know what their talking points are. But why do you guys seem to think that a dating advice sub aimed at women will have the same advice as subs aimed at men? Of course their talking points will be different

They’re not addressing male problems (women know damn well that our appearances matter greatly; it’s men who need to be told that personality isn’t everything). These chicks are addressing female problems - seeing as how virtually every woman on earth has someone attracted to them, initial attraction isn’t the issue

Their issue is vetting, raising standards that are essentially so low that they’re on the ocean floor, making sure that the men they choose are investing in them, etc. Basically, not being taken advantage of by fuckbois and losers

It’s a totally different audience

EDIT - the comparison comes in because this is all stuff most women don’t struggle with, that is obvious to the majority of us. These women need to be taken back to girl basics, like TRP men need to be taken back to guy basics

[–]JohnDoe95645 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SonicBackScratcher3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But why do you guys seem to think that a dating advice sub aimed at women will have the same advice as subs aimed at men?

Because being your best body while trying to get the best SO should be a no brainier. What I find about womens dating advice, its often, "You are fantastic" while mens dating advice is usually "Get your shit in order".

seeing as how virtually every woman on earth has someone attracted to them, initial attraction isn’t the issue

You even have feeders true, but again do they want the best man they can get? They don't want to settle but thats about as settling as it gets.

These women need to be taken back to girl basics,

I get what you are saying but they are missing girl basics if they are fat. That used to be girl basics. Now its 70% overweight in the US and growing around the western world too. I think they are simply missing the big picture because its hard, not unlike guys who complain about OLD but don't want to cold approach because its hard for them.

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According to the guys here, no men don’t know that lol

Autism speaks a lot here. Normal guys know.

So the advice color fds is going to start further along. They’re not discussing initial attraction

But they want a HVM's a HVM will pre-select a girl before approaching. It's not all all men approach equally and these girls need to sort them out. I reject women constantly but they never know it since I never approach (I miss the term hit on) them.

They are missing the very basics of improving your chances of finding the best partner, especially considering men are more visual.

An analogy I would use is someone fishing in the small pond who can always catch small fish and wants big fish. FDS would be maximizing what you do with the small pond to get the biggest fish in that pond. TRP style self improvement would be leaving that pond and tying the big lake where there are much bigger fish but you won't catch them just fishing with the same small pond bait.

When I got fat I still got laid, sometimes by very attractive women but usually not. It was... slow.

When I got fit after being fat, that improved dramatically. Fat women hit on me, sometimes aggressively, and more attractive women were open to my approach.

Coincidentally the same thing happened to my wife, she went from an ok 5'6" 155 to 130 and guys that didn't give her the time of day were suddenly giving her complements.

[–]SmurfESmurferson7 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Keep in mind that what they qualify as a HVM is not what TRP would - the same way the women TRP target are not the Queen Bee of the FSM. Because, for both subs, what works for their gender’s romantic/sexual imperative is paramount

So, you’re looking at the term HVM and thinking “guy with a lot of options, abundance mentality, looks, great career, etc.” When, in actuality, for these girls, the HVM is a guy who treats her like a princess, isn’t aggressive/cheating/problematic, etc. He might be Billy from accounting, but he makes her feel like the most important thing in his life

You’re doing what girls do when we say that TRP only works on BPD/broken girls. Well, yeah, no shit for both - because what those in the sub prioritize in the opposite gender isn’t the same as what each gender looks up to amongst their own

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I know TikTok is “cringe” but I have to say.

The boys of Gen Z TikTok appear like they’ve freed themselves of traditional masculine expectations except “have nice jaw line” and they seem happier for it lol.

When I was in HS whenever the boys interacted with the girls or boyfriends interacted with their girlfriends in public it never felt this “awww I feel like they’re besties about to pillow fight.”

Link 1: https://www.tiktok.com/@noahbeck/video/6895507563647962373?sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6919644577482425862&is_from_webapp=v2

Link 2: https://www.tiktok.com/@addisonre/video/6892957044505169158?sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6919644577482425862&is_from_webapp=v2

Link 3: https://www.tiktok.com/@laurenkettering/video/6918491714277674245?sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6919644577482425862&is_from_webapp=v2

Link 4: https://www.tiktok.com/@vhackerr/video/6890400269855771909?sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6919644577482425862&is_from_webapp=v2

I also think Gen Z boys are more aesthetic and have adopted the “I have a brand” thing the girls have for better or for worse.

My little male cousins split their time between YouTube , PS5, sports / practice, and creating TikToks.

I think creating content you want other people to like means caring about presenting in a way other people like. It’s cringe #but.

edit: my friend in just text me “It’s very Kpop fem boy, but make it Americana” which yes lol

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Perhaps.

Though the dudes in the second video I think are making themselves even cuter. Idk if they’re as objectively “cute” as guy 1, but they have a cool sense of style, and adornment, and swag, and rhythm (and the one on the right seems to have a flirty sexiness with his interaction with the girl) which all heightens their perceived SMV IMO. Like my brain actually thinks they’re “hotter” despite objectively thinking some of the other guys are cuter if that makes sense.

Because I’m thinking of boys who looked like them facially in HS minus the style and haircut and jewelry and swag and they were pretty much bottom of the food chain back then.

Also boy #3 is clearly of Asian persuasion and Reddit makes it seem like “hapas” get no play and yet every other hapa I’ve seen has been objectively cute. So what is the truth.

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I'm part of Gen Z and honestly I'm conflicted

Like on one hand I'm all for guys doing whatever the hell they want and cultivating their own identity that may exist outside the expectations of "traditional masculinity" and shit.

But at the same time it all feels kinda superficial, which yeah teenagers are supposed to be superficial. But combine that with the abundant social media presence and you've really just replaced the expectations of traditional masculinity with the expectations of social approval and popularity, that can actually be measure and compared.

Shit like Tik Tok might be "cringe" or whatever but besides that, it can also be a toxic as hell environment where you have a bunch of people jumping on bandwagons for the pseudo-appeoval they get from strangers on the internet, which has it's own problems. There's a reason that a staggering amount of people in Gen Z that can't tell the difference between social media and reality, and getting messed up mentally because of it.

God, this is the most Boomer thing I've ever written. I need to get in contact with my weed girl.

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You’re not wrong. I guess it’s never really bothered me.

Regarding TikTok, the dances tend to go viral easiest and quickest. They’re fun and ppl love doing them. I grew up in a dance culture so I enjoy almost anything dance If the ppl have rhythm and pocket. And tbh most of the dances that go viral on TikTok start with black TikTokers and use black music. So imagine how the black creators feel that the content that goes viral is the white people just copying it lol. It’s simple majority/ minority and preference dynamics at play. People repost what they relate to and/or like.

I think ppl here seem dismayed that “pretty privilege” is a thing. Yes. Babies that are cute get called cute. It starts young.

But idk it’s just sort of hard for me to overly sympathize with black pillers. They’re just now realizing social dynamics are a thing.

Seeing it play out on social media doesn’t really cause me any Weltschmerz ya know. My culture’s elders dole out the “life ain’t fair” red pill early.

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I have recently reread the Once and Future King by TH White again. The last time I read it I was 13, and as a 13 year old I was not really equipped to understand some of the heavier concepts introduced in the second half of the book dealing with adultery, incest, and betrayal. So I wanted to revisit it, and I appreciate the book a lot more

If you aren't familiar, its in my opinion the best telling of the Arthurian legend. I am always impressed by its transition from light hearted adventure to complex and darker themes. Its a good book and I would recommend reading it.

I wanted to talk about it here however, because I thought of this place a lot while I was reading it. Especially part 3, The Ill Made Knight, seems to strike at the very core of many of the manosphere / red pills deepest insecurities.

To give a brief summary,

!The Ill Made Knight is about Lancelot. A famously ugly French Knight who grew up hating himself, and devoted the entirety of his youth to becoming the greatest Knight who ever lived. !<

!In the book, King Arthur is portrayed as fundamentally good, but innocent. He is married to Guinevere for political reasons and he is for all purposes living up to his legendary status. Going on in the background are the creation of the Round Table at Camelot, his battle against savagery and corruption, his victories at war against any and all comers and his bringing civilization to Graymere (Mostly the UK, but in this book he is the master of all of Europe) and replacing the rule of might with the rule of right (by using might for right). But great, kind, legendary Arthur is... a cuckold. His best friend and the Greatest Knight of all time and his wife, have fallen hopelessly in love with each other. !<

!Arthur doesn't deal with this... particularly well. For the most part he willfully ignores it, and figures that everything will work itself out. Arthur's willful ignorance is forced to come to a close however when the child born of his incest traps him into acknowledging the affair, and forcing his hand to prosecute his best friend and his wife. After this, everything goes to hell as Arthur and Lancelot are forced to go to war against each other. !<

I am curious as to whether an TRP posters have read this book, and what their thoughts as to King Arthur being a cuckold- or for that matter Lancelot being ugly and not a "chad". Do you think Arthur can still be a great king... but also a cuckold?

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It was more of a I don't want to deal with this thing.

People like that don't really become powerful kings. It's an interesting thought though.

But Arthur isn't really just a powerful king. He is the legendary Once and Future King, and according to this retelling responsible for establishing civilization and decency in Europe.

But its more than that though, why do you feel an obligation to connect Arthur's failings in his personal life with his success in other aspects of life. Is it not possible to have someone who is a capable or even good leader, who has weaknesses in other areas.

Its one of the things I find so odd about the "alpha" and "beta" worship. Just because someone has a lot of sex.... doesn't automatically mean that they are a skilled general or warrior too. Just because someone's wife is cheating on him doesn't mean that he is any less of a clever general or capable duelist. I don't understand why TRP is so intent on making the two connected when there is no connection to be made.

[–]TheJim661 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It was more of a I don't want to deal with this thing

Yikes.

Is it not possible to have someone who is a capable or even good leader, who has weaknesses in other areas.

You can have weaknesses in other areas. You can be an alcoholic, a womanizer, even a beta for your wife. But being so beta you aren't even willing to hurt people who have betrayed you , is a quality that prohibits someone from becoming a powerful king. Its like saying one can become a great hunter if he isnt willing to hurt animals.

doesn't automatically mean that they are a skilled general or warrior too. Just because someone's wife is cheating on him doesn't mean that he is any less of a clever general or capable duelist.

Of course, but if you are willing to look the other way when people betray you and not punish them, they are gonna just keep doing it. The issue isn't that Guinevere cheated on him. It's that he didn't punish her and Lancelot.

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[–]SmurfESmurferson5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I’ve had a weird life

My mother’s family was as white trash as it gets - right down to a ton of kids, multiple murders (one still a cold case - my grandmother - the other “solved”), multiple suicides, drug overdoses, kids out of wedlock, etc. Mom was the eldest, and got the hell out of dodge as soon as humanly possible. She was a lab tech in hospitals

My father was born on the boat coming over, and I was raised by that side of the family (for obvious reasons). Dad was drafted, but went into ROTC while in college and made the military his career. Got his MBA in his 40s, and went on to corporate job after retirement

I was raised on bases and in the surrounding areas. Very, very working class, despite my father being an officer. My sister and I had very different childhoods - by sheer chance, I grew up while my dad was stationed in coastal/more progressive areas (with a couple exceptions); my sister was raised primarily in very rural/conservative areas. They types of places where “redneck” is a compliment

I went to a fairly well known university. My dad got orders about 3 months into my Freshman year, and the family (minus me) moved to redneck Georgia. I’ve been living on my own since 1998, until I got married

Raised agnostic/atheist, but I did go to worship with friends while I was growing up - churches, synagogues, even a Mormon temple. Never really bought it though

EDIT - and if you somehow missed the 45 million times I mentioned this, my sister is mentally ill. Both of my parents are dead now - my mom for 5 years (died in the middle of surgery), my dad for 4 months (also unexpected)

[–][deleted]2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Hey, yeah, I think we've talked about our similar upbringings. Fellow USAF brat. My dad is the one with the white trash upbringing (no shade tho, it's a term of endearment). He escaped his working class hometown by enlisting and met my mom while stationed in the far east, and here I am. She worked as an employee of the Asian American Female Employment Service until she got a job as a bookkeeper for a random contractor and has been doing that ever since.

She learned English from an Evangelical missionary and has been a non-white member of the religious Right my whole life. As was I, until I got a scholarship to a ritzy liberal private university and discovered depravity (yay).

The divide between you and your sister is interesting. Exactly how red state is she? I experienced a similar dichotomy when stationed abroad, where most kids were more worldly and cosmopolitan, compared to where I ended up graduating, while we were stationed in the Bible belt.

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No, it honestly wasn’t. It was just one of those situations where the surgery went sideways, despite everything being done correctly. He even attended her services (and spoke), which I sincerely doubt his legal team would have allowed if there was even a shadow of a question about fault

(For clarity, he is employed with the hospital that the ME blamed my father’s death on - for medical malpractice. He knew my family very well, sent yearly Christmas cards to my dad. Neither my sister nor I have heard a peep from him since then. Even though he wasn’t involved in that situation at all, whatsoever - I’m fairly certain that’s the hospital’s legal team)

Mom was actually out of surgery, in the recovery room, but still under anesthesia when the sepsis ... I don’t know, got her, I guess. So at least we know she didn’t feel anything

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As a child I lived in a small Russian village. Bears and - 40C in winter. It's a "God forgotten place", rural with not so many people and most boys of my age there were into criminal romance. It was common in Russia back then and I'm afraid it still is. As a result to our graduation some boys already had bad records.

I'm from a single mother household, my mother is a lawyer, so yes, she has a degree. She's a great mother and I think she's done her best. She always worked hard for her family and she helped greatly all her sisters and their mother. She is pretty egalitarian and she's very tolerant. I guess it was the main factor why I grew up in a person who I am now.

We're from an Asian minority, so although we're religious, we aren't Christian. Buddhism it is. I wouldn't say that my family is deeply religious. We live in a region where our ancestors lived, so we aren't exactly a minority here, although I guess we are in all other parts of Russia. I'm a mix though. I'm not Asian enough for people from my minority and not white enough for being Slavic.

Overall I had a good childhood, pretty peaceful with lots of reading and wandering in the forest.

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Wow people really have parents?

There are two people who had sex for me to exist, but I wouldn't call them parents. I only ever called my "dad" by his real name, and only saw him a handful of times before he died from drug-related heart problems when I was 13. My "mom" ran away from home at 13 and hasn't matured a day past that. She had 9+ kids by like 5 different dudes and left them with her mom who she herself couldn't stand.

I think my real parent is my grandmother and my grandfather. My grandfather died when I was 9, and my grandma went even more off the rails. I have no choice but to love her, but I was working up the nerve to leave when she got sick and died when I was 14.

Nobody in my family went to college.

I grew up in a beach town on the west coast. I didn't think it was "the hood" when I was a kid, but I've been told that if people get killed in your neighborhood regularly, it is. Contrary to what people might think, despite having the reputation of being low-class, my school was pretty gay-friendly, and all throughout highschool, I identified as a lesbian, and I wasn't the only kid who was "out". They raised us to be Baptists, but I stopped buying it when I was 11. I'm going to borrow someone else's wording and say "my ancestors came over on the slave ships", too.

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Neither of my parents had a "career," they both did different things at various junctures. My dad has worked as a respiratory therapist, a realtor, a car salesman, a home health equipment salesman, a truck driver and a crop duster pilot. That's just what I know of. It seems like every few years I learn of some new job my dad had.

He also sang and played guitar in bands when he was younger, and he builds and repairs guitars for people. He and my mom also owned a restaurant and music venue for about 12 years. Music is my dad's passion. Now he manages some land that belongs to my grandmother that they lease out to a cattle rancher. He still does real estate on the side some.

My mom is a secretary. She ran a home daycare when my brothers were young and also helped my dad run the restaurant.

Nether of them went to college unless you count my dad's two-year respiratory certification which he did at a community college.

We are white. I grew up evangelical Christian in the rural Texas panhandle. The area I grew up in is about 50/50 white and Hispanic. I'm the youngest of three; I have two brothers who are 7 and 9 years older than me. I'm the only one who went to college.

Both sides of my family have been in the US for at least two centuries and have been in Texas since before the Civil War. We have traced my mom's mom's family back to the Mayflower. I'm not a hyphenated American.

[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Fellow raised evangelical here, worship summer camp and choir raised and all. My dad's side sounds similar to yours, although east coast white trash (I mean that lovingly). My dad's a vet from a big family, and his dad was in WWII.

I really experienced the cultural divide when I moved out of state for college, where my freshman roommate was a legacy kid from the same shmancy school we went to. I was raised with the old-school greatest generation ethics of my dad's family, combined with my mom's hardcore traditional immigrant mindset, and only truly became a millenial when I went to college, and discovered boomer-inspired depravity.

Was college a culture shock for you too? Literally no one in my family history went to university before me, and I was really smacked in the face by the sexual revolution 50 years too late.

[–]death_by_1000_cats2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

College wasn't too much of a culture shock because I started taking college classes online for dual credit in high school, then I did two years at the community college in my home town before finishing at a four-year university in the "big city" an hour away. I never lived on campus (lived with my parents, then my brother, then roommates). So I kind of eased into college and never had the fully immersive "college experience." I think if I had gone to school far from home and lived in the dorms etc. it would have been a much bigger shock for sure.

Since I went to college close to home, I mostly just kept my same friends from high school, or made friends with people through the local music scene or through my waitressing job, who largely came from similar backgrounds to mine. So even in college I didn't really hang out with like middle or upper middle class people, just working class people like myself. The biggest culture shock was when I moved to Austin (where I currently live) and got my first white collar job because for the first time in my life I was really around middle+ class people every day. I had to travel for a conference for that job and it was the first time I had ever flown on an airplane (I was 26) and I was so embarrassed when my coworkers found that out lol.

[–][deleted]2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I wish I had done something similar. I didn't get saddled with too much debt, but in a way my desire (and my well intentioned parents) to have ~the college experience~ was a bad fit, and I developed an inferiority complex from being around a bunch of UMC kids who were already well enculturated, while I was left feeling like the outsider bumpkin. And I ended up doing a pretty blue collar job anyway, where I relate better to the people.

It's weird tho cuz I ended up doing okay for myself financially, pretty middle of the road compared to my peers, although the extrema varies from my roommate who ended up going to a ritzy law school and pre-med ex-gf who is now a doctor, to some of my other friends who ended up as hipster burnouts working at Starbucks and still living with their parents or a fuckton of annoying roommates in some cool but sketch neighborhoods lol

[–]death_by_1000_cats1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I wish I had done something similar. I didn't get saddled with too much debt, but in a way my desire (and my well intentioned parents) to have ~the college experience~ was a bad fit, and I developed an inferiority complex from being around a bunch of UMC kids who were already well enculturated, while I was left feeling like the outsider bumpkin.

Yeah, as much as I wanted to get away and be independent at the time, in retrospect I'm glad I stayed close to home and did college with training wheels lol. I think I would have really floundered otherwise. And saving money was a huge plus too; I finished college debt free (ended up taking out some loans for grad school a few years later, but not too bad).

But yeah I totally hear you on the inferiority complex. I work at a university now so I'm surrounded by a lot of highly educated people from very different backgrounds from mine. The impostor syndrome is real sometimes.

It's weird tho cuz I ended up doing okay for myself financially, pretty middle of the road compared to my peers, although the extrema varies from my roommate who ended up going to a ritzy law school and pre-med ex-gf who is now a doctor, to some of my other friends who ended up as hipster burnouts working at Starbucks and still living with their parents or a fuckton of annoying roommates in some cool but sketch neighborhoods lol

Yeah this is interesting. My group of friends is kind of all over the place. My husband has a bachelor's degree in graphic design with a minor in painting but he hated working in an office (he did graphics for a digital marketing company for a couple of years) and ended up getting his welding license and now that's what he does and he's MUCH happier. Our closest friends are a realtor, a nurse, a TV weather guy, a couple of teachers, a jewelry designer, a bartender, a programmer, a copywriter, a lawyer, a couple folks who work retail, another welder and an agoraphobic NEET. Lol. All of us but the lawyer and the copywriter come from similar rural/working class/first gen college student type backgrounds, some just climbed higher than others.

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I was always "the smart one" in the house and my parents were very, very good at making sure that I had what I needed to take advantage of my smarts.

I fell in love with programming in the 3rd grade in the early 80s when a personal computer was something rich people had. My elementary school had 3 Commodore PET computers that I would play lemonade stand on. I was fascinated by it and learned how to code on my own.

My parents went into debt to buy me my own PC, which was like 4k in 1980 dollars. I was on that thing every night instead of partying like a normal teenager.

I did go to college in CSIS, but didn't learn much. I already knew how to code, but wanted to get my degree.

My mom was a bit more liberal about the sex thing. Being raised Mormon, masturbation is a huuuuge sin for boys, and without specifically telling me that it was natural and ok, my mom tried really hard to tell me it's natural and ok. But the brainwashing of religion runs deep and I had some crazy guilt all through my teenage years.

One of the Mormon prophets once said that adultery is a sin only next to murder, and the scriptures say, "if you look upon a woman with lust, you have committed adultery in your heart", so my idiot teenage mind went "I think about having sex with girls, that is the same as adultery, adultery is almost as bad a murderer.... My god, I'm a murderer!!"

It fucked me up pretty hard for a lot of years.

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My parents both have PhDs but I prefer not to say what their jobs are for privacy reasons. My mom's mother came from a family that was crazy about education and saw it as the key to advancing black people and all that jazz. My mom's father was straight rough and tumble working class; they weren't "supposed" to get married but my grandma cried to her dad until he let her. My mom's drive to get a PhD came from her mom's side. My dad's family wasn't as big on education (working class), but he didn't really know what he wanted out of life in general and he didn't mind school so he thought he'd just try my mom's family's way. I spent a lot of time at their university growing up along with my siblings (they got married when they were 23/21 and had kids right after). Whenever I ask my parents how they managed to get through university with kids running around they can't really answer lol. They want me to finish my degrees first and then have kids.

I grew up in the city (near said university) for early childhood and then we moved out to the suburbs. I was raised Catholic (though my parents were pretty lax on things like sex before marriage, birth control, and contraception). My mom's side has always been mostly Catholic while my dad's was mostly Baptist but his grandmother who happened to raise him randomly converted to Catholicism and had him baptized in the faith. A lot of people on PPD ask if I'm an immigrant (or Asian) but I'm actually not lol. My ancestors came over on the slave ships.

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I was born in a shithole neighbourhood in London(the Canadian one), my parents were 2 broke immigrants from iraq so definitely a minority. My dad is a doctor with a history of mental illness(hes a war vet) and my mom was a pharmacist but she stopped working around mid 2015 because of a car accident, i also have an older sister and they made it clear that she was the favored one

around 2012 we had enough money to move out to a better neighbourhood in ottawa near my mother's family

They werent religious but my mother was very overbearing and she had a pull yourself up by the bootstraps type of attitude so she pushed me to work im my uncle's workshop when i was 12 and stopped giving me allowance. i havent talked to her in 2 years

I rarely saw my father during work days because he took alot of shifts and on his off days he would be sleeping or reading some books

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White/Jewish, but barely religious. My mom was firmly UMC if not from a UC family, dad was from a more working class background. They did not have a happy marriage and they separated one kids were grown. But we have a very close family even today, including my dads children from his first marriage (who are much older than me and my sibling). My mom is a straight up liberal. Her grandmother actually died of an illegal abortion so the women in our family have always been very passionate about women's reproductive rights and feminism. My dad is also a big supporter of woman's rights but is more conservative / libertarian leaning. And like most people he thinks it's funny to piss of liberals.

Parents were successful in local real-estate. I attended Public school in a nice Blue city suburb as a kid. Private university in another blue city. Now living in another blue city. I work in marketing-type job, from home now indefinitely because of COVID.

I'm about as privileged as you can get and I'm thankful for it. And believe it or not I'm not even the most liberal person I know. My husband is more liberal than I am.

Edit - these are really interesting to read

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Renal failure like...completely failure? Or his kidneys are slowly dying but they're still doing some work?

The vet didn't say. We don't know how far along he is into renal failure, but he did have an upper-respiratory infection that they wanted to address first since that would kill him before the renal failure does. I'm just trying to limit the work of his kidneys so that the failure rate is slower. Kinda hard to manage with other animals though.

When my cat had some kidney problems, we had to feed him with special (low protein) food, control how much he drank and that he peed regularly and we went to a vet daily for around a week to get some IV lines (how are these things called in English?).

Hmmm I'd have to look into the low protein thing and consider whether that's actually a factor or not. My mom has been feeding him this one bag called The Science Diet forever because she was told it was "good" while being completely ignorant of her own health. She probably should have been feeding him something better but it's too late to go back now. These are the consequences. The cat also seems to be dehydrated somewhat because he constantly begs for water. He likes drinking from the tap and will climb into the sink. I don't know whether to actually give him water or let him get it from the wet food now.

The IVs are correct. You don't have to say IV lines. I just hope we don't have to take him in for IVs.

Can you get your cat from your mother? She doesn't seem to be fit to take care of any pets.

She's barely even fit to take care of herself (mentally), but I can't take the cat because pets aren't allowed where I'm at. Unfortunately, the cat is doomed as of right now unless I can find some food that works and possibly reverses the kidney failure. Might be asking for too much though.

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Oh my god, all of this is just terrible.

I've never heard of restricting water intake and I suspect that you should give the poor champ all the water he wants, but maybe not the tap water if you don't drink it yourself. It would be better to ask your vet about it though. But with cats the main fear is that they get dehydrated, not the other way around and dehydration can kill them really fast.

There are veterinary food for pets and there are special food for renal problems, you should look it up. From what we have hear we used "Hill's", but maybe you have something better. Again, I guess your vet would know it and advise you if you ask.

It might be difficult if you have other pets, but we just feed both our cats with veterinary food, it hasn't harmed the healthy one.

Although if he's really dehydrated you probably will need IV sooner or later, also ask your mother to check that he goes to number 1 and 2 regularly.

With kidney failures if it's from chronical kidney disease, it's most likely not reversible though. If it's not a complete failure and kidneys still work but poorly with the right food and treatment cats can live some time after getting diagnosed and sometimes they can last years after that.

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I've never heard of restricting water intake and I suspect that you should give the poor champ all the water he wants, but maybe not the tap water if you don't drink it yourself.

I don't drink it myself, but it's the water he and a lot of other cats seem to prefer because they like moving water as opposed to water that's been left standing for awhile.

It would be better to ask your vet about it though. But with cats the main fear is that they get dehydrated, not the other way around and dehydration can kill them really fast.

I still give him water but try to limit it since I've read that cats are supposed to take in water with other things like food. Just giving them water can cause issues with ammonia build up or something. I'd have to go back and find that information.

There are veterinary food for pets and there are special food for renal problems, you should look it up. From what we have hear we used "Hill's", but maybe you have something better.

That's exactly what she was feeding him. Hill's Science Diet, although it was dry food. The wet specialty food can be really expensive, as I saw online. Might be our only option now though. She's got no job and can't afford something like that so his health is basically in the hands and bank account of whoever cares about him more. In this case, it's probably me.

It might be difficult if you have other pets, but we just feed both our cats with veterinary food, it hasn't harmed the healthy one.

There's only one.

Although if he's really dehydrated you probably will need IV sooner or later, also ask your mother to check that he goes to number 1 and 2 regularly.

I think he does.

With kidney failures if it's from chronical kidney disease, it's most likely not reversible though. If it's not a complete failure and kidneys still work but poorly with the right food and treatment cats can live some time after getting diagnosed and sometimes they can last years after that.

I've read. I'm just hoping that it's something reversible or manageable as I'd prefer that we don't have to put him to sleep because of suffering from organ failure.

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I really wouldn't be so sure that you're a unicorn. There are lots of men who are interested in monogamy and who have kinks, one doesn't contradict the other. Most people don't have much problems with finding LTRs if they don't have any weird hang-ups.

Okay, that's kind of weird but it seems you're either trolling and you do know my background or my lifestyle is what you aspire for. I got married to my first partner, we both were virgins and we both aren't sexually restrictive but we're strictly monogamous. What is unicorn-ish about my husband is that he acts on his morals, we have similar views and value system (deeply egalitarian).

But we both didn't plan to get married our first partners, we aren't religious, aren't into traditional roles or whatever, we just were lucky to meet each other. And I surely wouldn't date a guy that is obsessed with my virginity.

So...I guess my advice for you is to chill and change the way you're looking for a partner. It seems your sample doesn't work for you well, you should aim for people with similar values and not just "a virgin". No one wants to date someone who they're just a kink for and male obsession with virginity does look like a kink. Or the one who holds different standards for themselves and their partners.

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1) Women having sex with men... is unfair to men? I struggle to understand why you would think this. I am also not sure why you think that marriage is the ultimate goal every time a person has sex, or indeed, why you think a person should believe something so negative of themselves. No one is like this, because pessimism is not fun.

2) Your future wife has zero obligation to you before you enter a relationship with her. Believing that will make you miserable. If (lack of) premarital sex is important for you, you are free to pursue women who believe similarly.

3) In the West we generally believe that people should be free to make their own decisions. There are, however, still many places on earth where women's choices are still more restricted. You might have a look at Saudi Arabia if you happen to be considering moving.

[–]moneygang4life1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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There were 29% percent of married couples who had breadwinning wives in 2019. It seems that these numbers have been getting higher slowly but steadily with time, but I guess that this pandemic has made things worse, unfortunately.

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/income-poverty/historical-income-families.html

There are studies showing that couples with breadwinning wives have around 30% risks higher to get divorced.

There are studies with different results

For marriages formed after 1975, husbands’ lack of full-time employment is associated with higher risk of divorce, but neither wives’ full-time employment nor wives’ share of household labor is associated with divorce risk

https://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/attach/journals/aug16asrfeature.pdf

Among couples married in the 1990s, increases in wives’ relative earnings were no longer associated with an increased risk of divorce and the risk of divorce for wives who outearned their husbands was not significantly different from that of other wives.

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/630326/pdf

I guess there are more but these are the first two I found.

SAHF are still really rare

The share of fathers who are stay-at-home dads ticked up from 4% in 1989 to 7% in 2016. As a result, dads made up 17% of all stay-at-home parents in 2016, up from 10% in 1989. Among Millennials (those ages 20 to 35 in 2016), 6% of dads were at home with their kids

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/12/fathers-day-facts/#:~:text=The%20share%20of%20fathers%20who,at%20home%20with%20their%20kids.

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[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

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[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Disclaimer: I'm talking about the USA and not other countries.

The video is about a woman who lost total sexual feelings for her boyfriend and a fellow MMA fighter when he was getting beaten down and put up his hands to protect his face. She thought he looked like a bitch. She stated this was why she broke up with him.

Okay, you should say thanks to our gender roles and the idea that a woman should be a docile and gentle creature completely dependent on a man.

I'm not a tradcon. I'm certainly not one to belittle women soldiers or first responders and I don't see them as emasculating. I know a number of men here want it both ways - mad that women don't want weak men and then offended at women soldiers and such. That ain't me. At all.

I'm curious though how man women really are coward, from my experience that isn't really common except for simulated cases when she's trying to be flirty and she plays "dame in distress" trope.

Oh so you never heard of women say they don't approach men?

Also when an earthquake brings the world crashing down around your ears it is almost never women rushing into an unstable building to get someone out. There's no feminism when the shit hits the fan. Which is why they need more women in those professions and less discrimination.

[–]NarniaFox1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There are terrible people of both genders. I knew some stories about men breaking up with their partners for a bunch of weird reasons. The worst are rape, abortions, grieving, illnesses and the weirdest are "she ate too much" (no, she didn't, she was underweight) and "she didn't clean the floors daily".

Yes, I know, but even people who aren't into traditional roles are still affected by them, mostly because almost all parts of our gender roles and gendered stereotypes come from traditional ones.

Are cowardice and shyness the same thing? I was really shy and awkward teen, it didn't really stop me from trying to approach my crush at school.

Yes, most firefighters are men, it doesn't mean women are cowards. If you look up news, there are lots of stories about women and girls saving others from fire, from getting fallen under ice etc.

I know that you're talking about the US, but in Russia we have a list of jobs that are forbidden for women. It seems that legally a woman can't professionally put down fires and there isn't any real reason for it except for women being "taken care of" because they have to be mothers. Aaand it's sexism.

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I'm pregnant right now. I don't hate it, but it's definitely a long, uncomfortable, at times scary process, and the idea of being forced to go through it for a man I don't love is absolutely repulsive.

Exactly the same here (congrats!). I also cannot express how incredibly strongly I would despise being pregnant by someone who forced this on me. It’s a visceral nightmare to me.

The idea of being pregnant by rape makes me genuinely want to have rapists executed brutally, even though I’m really not a violent person at heart.

And also, agreed to the rest too. I really don’t know how so many men are so completely dumbly oblivious to how much of a burden an unwanted pregnancy could be, especially not when they complain so vigorously about child support. Like, child support is just some cash every month, not an invasive ongoing ever-present creature draining your energy and potentially killing you if something goes wrong.

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[–]badgersonice1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks :).

And yeah, exactly the same here. I think part of it is that some of them can’t seem to actually fathom listening to women (or doctor’s, apparently) when they say pregnancy is actually kinda rough even in a pregnancy with minimal hiccups, and that it can go south and be a lot worse or kill you if you’re unlucky. They seem just desperate to believe that pregnancy is no big deal, just a walk in the park. It blows my mind— if nothing else, the media often portrays the lady giving birth screaming in pain and exhaustion or actually dying... so why do they pretend that’s no biggie? (I’m actually guessing with the men here, it’s because their self-identity relies on that martyrdom of believing everything men do is difficult and miserable, and everything women do is dumb or easy).

As another example, on a different post the other day, the OP was trying to argue that women who are miserable in pregnancy are evolutionary failures because they won’t want to do it again... and I’m like, there isn’t a woman alive who goes into pregnancy thinking it’s a vacation, lol!! Women have babies in spite of the misery, not because they think pregnancy is a pleasant day at the spa!

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following on from /u/spacechicken1990 earlier post I want to explore Victim mentality, Justice and self responsibility a bit further.

Lets say a woman, lets call her Julia, gets with a guy and he strings her along and makes her pregnant. She has the baby, he does a runner.

Is he a shitty guy, I say yes.

Is Julia a victim of his shitty behaviour, I say yes.

Feel free to disagree with me here.

So Julia is now a single mum and is looking for a new guy to have a relationship with. Should she be more careful, or should she just blame the guy who did a runner and not give a fuck, as its all his fault (not actually denying this).

I personally say, she should take responsibility especially after being in a shitty situation once and vet men harder than she did before.

Now lets say I meet Julia, then I do not want to get involved, as she has proven (in my eyes) she has made bad choices which resulted in a possibly unwanted child.

Should I not be taking responsibility for my own relationships? If Julia says its all the guys fault, then cool. But that does not absolve me of my own personal responsibilities. Does it?

When I previously mentioned Justice, well will the deadbeat runaway father have to pay Child Support? I would hope so personally. But as far as justice goes, that is it. There is no crime against it. He is just a shitty father.

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I didn’t forget.

I just don’t accept your narrative that you were the only one “lied to.”

I don’t accept you were some special kid who was told anything that different than most kids.

I think you think the rest of us got some rule book from our parents. We did not.

I think you were an especially naive type who struggled and possibly still struggles with unpacking socio-dynamics.

I think you call things “detailed and complex” which many people think of as “common sense” or “huh that makes sense.”

I think you tell yourself “it was everyone else” and “no one else was ‘lied to’” because the truth that perhaps you were just willfully and blissfully out of touch / or happily didn’t care about those things unnerves you.

But, no. I did not “forget.”

I don’t “forget” much.

[–]Aldabruzzo1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes you did. Either that, or you didn't understand. In fact as you kept writing, it's clear you didn't understand and still don't.

Never said I was the only one lied to. Thousands on thousands of men have reported the exact same experiences. And you know it.

I'm not special. Never said I was. I also never told you I was. That's your conclusion. I was told lots of things. Some like you were, some different.

I know you didn't get "rule books". You got better instruction. Or different instruction. I think you were advantaged in ways I wasn't. It's OK, it just is.

I did struggle; I don't anymore.

OK.

No, I don't tell myself those things, and never have. You give me too much credit. The truth used to unnerve me. Doesn't anymore. It's quite routine and humdrum and predictable now. Just as you are with your insults.

You're right. You didn't forget. You just don't understand. I thought you did, but you don't. It's clear that you don't, because you said a few comments back that you "can't relate" (Translation - you don't get it, you don't grok it, you can't conceive of it, you don't understand it.) It's OK. Most women don't.

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Weekly Community Chat Megathread

Comments

sizequeenfabricatorsllc

Title	Weekly Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	12
Comments	2609
Date	January 18, 2021 9:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/l03p4p/weekly_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/weekly-community-chat-megathread.728046 https://theredarchive.com/post/728046